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Using AI in Innovation – a conversation with Sam Zellner
11 Plays5 days ago
As someone who has contributed to over 200 patents Sam Zellner is undoubtedly an innovator.
Sam is the founder and CEO of Inspire IP, a SaaS platform that helps corporations build and sustain innovation ecosystems. He serves on the USIPA board, is one of IAM's Top 300 IP Strategists. and is regarded as a leader in innovation.
In this episode of the Abeceder podcast The Independent Minds, Sam explains to host Michael Millward how AI can contribute to the innovation process, the advantages for organisations and people of using AI for innovative problem solving.
Sam also explains how to utilise AI to achieve the best results and organisations may need to change approaches to management and communications in order to achieve those best results.
Find out more about both Michael Millward, and Sam Zellner at Abeceder.co.uk
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Transcript
Introduction to The Independent Minds Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
on zencastr Hello and welcome to the Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abysseedah and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone.
00:00:21
Speaker
I'm your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abysseedah.
Discussing AI and Innovation with Sam Zellner
00:00:26
Speaker
Today i am going to be discussing how to leverage advanced technologies like AI and natural language processing to drive efficiencies and transparencies in the innovation process with Sam Zellner who is one of IAM's top 300 strategists.
00:00:43
Speaker
i p strategists As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, the independent minds is made on Zencastr.
Zencastr Overview and Special Offer
00:00:53
Speaker
Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform on which you can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to the major platforms like Spotify, Apple, Amazon and YouTube Music.
00:01:05
Speaker
Zencastr really does make making content so easy. If you would like to try podcasting using Zencaster, visit zencaster.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code, Abysida.
00:01:18
Speaker
All the details are in the description. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencaster is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:32
Speaker
As with every episode of the Independent Minds, we won't be telling you what to think, but we do hope to make you think.
Meet Sam Zellner, Innovation Leader
00:01:40
Speaker
Today, my guest Independent Mind is Sam Zellner.
00:01:43
Speaker
Sam is the founder and CEO of Inspire IP, an SAAS platform dedicated to helping corporations build and sustain innovation ecosystems.
00:01:57
Speaker
With over a decade of experience in innovation leadership, Sam is passionate about leveraging advanced technologies like AI and natural language processing to drive efficiencies and transparency in the innovation process.
00:02:13
Speaker
Sam also leads PQAI, an open source project focused on improving patent quality through AI-powered prior art searches. We will find out what that means.
00:02:28
Speaker
Sam also holds 200 patents, serves on the US IPA board and has been recognized as one of IAM's top 300 IP strategists.
00:02:41
Speaker
Sam is based in Atlanta, Georgia. United States.
Travel Tips and Insights into Innovation
00:02:45
Speaker
I've not been to Atlanta. I understand it's very hot all year round, but if I do go, I will be sure to make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club, because that is where I can access trade prices on flights, hotels, holidays, and all sorts of other travel-related purchases.
00:03:01
Speaker
There is a link and a membership discount code in the description. Now that I have paid the heating bill, it is time to make an episode of The Independent Minds. Hello, Sam.
00:03:12
Speaker
Hello, Michael. Good to meet you. you very much. I'm paying my heating bill with my little advert there, but I imagine that you don't really have heating bills in Atlanta. It's more air conditioning. No, no. We actually get it cool here, and on some occasions we actually get snow. So know we do heating here too. Wow.
00:03:31
Speaker
ah Please could we start by you giving me just a little bit of a summary and explaining some of those acronyms that I was reading out. you know What does it all mean? and Sure. How did you get to where you are today? Yeah, so just, you know, as background, ah You know, was on the technical side within AT&T. During that, I saw lots of technologies come in. I won't bore you with all the different technologies, but as the new technologies came in, you know, gave me ideas and that led to patent filings. And, you know, I guess accumulated a lot of patent filings along the way.
00:04:02
Speaker
But in the process, I also recognized how the innovation works because I was not only a inventor, but I also was part of the intellectual property team building the patent portfolio with the team.
00:04:14
Speaker
In that process, I learned a lot about inventors, how they think, and also the innovation process and some of the pitfalls that people and misconceptions people had about innovation.
00:04:27
Speaker
And when I talk about innovation, a lot of people...
Understanding Innovation Beyond Patents
00:04:30
Speaker
will either think about patents as innovation, or they'll think of what I refer to as ideas to make the company more efficient, more valuable, just benefit the the company, whether it's new products, ah cost savings, better work environment, all that. It doesn't need to be a billion dollar idea. can be something very small, but it's still innovation.
00:04:53
Speaker
That's right. And then what we've had here in in recent years is an incredible opportunity with AI and how AI can fit into the the whole innovation structure and and do some remarkable things.
00:05:08
Speaker
But you know before I get into that, Michael, I think it's important to get oriented on innovation because I think it's one of these topics that's very trendy, but just really misunderstood. And I'll make the analogy. It's like a healthy lifestyle.
00:05:22
Speaker
Everybody thinks they understand a healthy lifestyle. Yeah, yeah, I understand, you know, shouldn't be eating fried chicken, you know, but, you know, they find out that, you know it involves more than just fried chicken, involves, you know, proper sleep, involves exercise. It's a little more complicated than people think.
00:05:38
Speaker
Everything that we do when we're trying to think about innovation is about doing something that challenges in some way the status quo, the conventional way of thinking. that's That's exactly it, Michael. that's That's where it makes, what makes innovation so hard is typically ideas that inventors come up with, what they're doing is actually breaking an assumption that everybody has.
00:06:02
Speaker
Because as I'm sure you recognize, you hear about ideas and they seem obvious after you hear about them. But that's only because somebody has broken an assumption that was blocking you from seeing this obvious idea.
00:06:18
Speaker
So if that's one of the things that's so tricky about
Encouraging Employee-Driven Innovation
00:06:21
Speaker
innovation. thing i like to use the example of of Uber. you know If somebody told me, hey you know what going to do is we're going to anybody who has a car to become a taxi.
00:06:33
Speaker
And you know my immediate reaction would have been, You can't do that. You have to be regulated. You have to have a you know ah ah medallion, as we call it in the U.S., to be a taxi cab driver. So that that's not possible. You can't do that.
00:06:48
Speaker
Well, you know kudos to Uber. they They recognize that maybe that's not a hard and fast rule. But you know that's where it's it's hard Sometimes you see these innovations because you you have this assumption and it's very hard to get over these assumptions in the beginning. Over time you can, but in the beginning it's very hard. And that's what that's why people can see, yeah know, inventors can see ideas because they put aside some assumption.
00:07:13
Speaker
So when you talk about an inventor, are you talking about a job title or in a role or an activity? I'm talking about an activity because anybody can be an inventor. And, and, you know, one of the things I emphasize to people is you don't want to be in a situation within your corporation where you say, these are the people who are going to be inventors and nobody else is going to be inventors because everybody is seeing your business.
00:07:39
Speaker
All your employees are seeing your business from a different perspective. Right. And so they will see opportunities, both large and small, to improve the the corporation.
00:07:50
Speaker
And so you don't want to identify a specific group. You want to leave it open to everybody. So for Inspire IP... We always encourage the software to be accessible to everybody.
00:08:02
Speaker
We say, don't you know don't say it's just the R&D team. Don't say it's just the product team. Everybody should have an opportunity to share their ideas because that's really critical. Because again, it's not about just the the home run.
00:08:15
Speaker
It's even small incremental things can make a difference in the work environment. It's good job I'm putting my HR hat on at the moment. If you're talking about and innovation as an activity, anyone can be an innovator.
00:08:30
Speaker
And I suppose the innovation it doesn't need to be on a corporate wide level. It can be on a very individual level, working out a more efficient way to do the job that you've got to do, sharing that with other people and other people having the opportunity to learn from what you've done.
00:08:48
Speaker
That's exactly. I mean, they people will see different things within their their job. And again, it can be a small little item, a little frustration that maybe customers are having. Maybe it's a little inefficiency that's going on within production.
00:09:02
Speaker
you know Little changes can make a big difference. Also, the other thing that's important here and and people miss is that by letting people participate in innovation, it makes them feel more a part of the team.
00:09:17
Speaker
you know And that's a really important thing, especially from an HR perspective. You want people to feel loyalty to the company. And you do that by letting them participate.
00:09:28
Speaker
And participation can take different forms. And you know some of the companies we've worked with, they've run challenges. And some of the challenges, very technical challenges, but they send it out to everybody in the company.
00:09:40
Speaker
And what we heard when we were doing surveys of the employees, some of the employees were saying, you know something, Sam? I can't participate in every one of these innovation challenges. I don't have the technical expertise to suggest anything.
00:09:53
Speaker
But by listening and learning about the problems the company is facing, the context in which they're facing them, makes me feel more a part of the company. Being able to have the opportunity to just hear about the issues is is ah an important piece of being a part of the company. Yeah.
00:10:11
Speaker
So I suppose what you're saying is that the innovation process itself can be as complicated or as straightforward as an organization makes it. That's right. And and one thing we should keep in mind here, and this is what another misconception, is people think, well, if somebody has an idea, they'll just you know give it to me and that's how it works. I'll just wait for ideas to come in.
00:10:37
Speaker
But it turns out that most people don't think that way. and And I'll say this is not scientific, but I'll say, you know, 96% of the people don't think that way.
00:10:47
Speaker
It's a small percentage of people who just come up with ideas on their own. Most people, you need to tell them what the problem is that you're trying to solve, and then they can start coming up with ideas. If I just said to you, Michael, give me some ideas, most people say, well, in what area?
00:11:02
Speaker
what What kind of ideas do you want to know? And if I just say just any ideas, they'll struggle. They can't. But if I said, Michael, the company's experiencing too many products being returned. What do you think we could do?
00:11:14
Speaker
Now you can say, oh, I can tell you some things. You know here you could help do this or that or something. People can then come up with ideas. sort of And this is what makes innovation a little bit hard is a lot of counterintuitive things.
00:11:26
Speaker
you get people focused, it's me it turns out for most people, it's much easier to come up with ideas. Yes. Then you just leave it a clean slate. So the innovation process is stronger, more effective if you give it some context.
Collaborative Innovation and Employee Engagement
00:11:41
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. So we talked about the need to communicate with people, make it possible for them to understand that they are allowed to. have ideas to be involved in the innovation process, that the innovation process shouldn't be excluding anyone on the assumption that they won't know about something. It's just tell everyone that you're looking for ideas around a particular problem or a particular factual issue like products being returned or things not being understood, whatever it the issue is.
00:12:16
Speaker
if there is a If there is an issue, that issue to the people as well. So it's got tonk context and permission to think outside the box about how to improve that situation. And and keep in mind, Michael, this this is also an opportunity for you to educate your employees.
00:12:33
Speaker
you can When you present a problem, you can also now articulate, here's the strategy. This is what the company's trying to accomplish. We're trying to do these things. So it's an opportunity to educate employees why you're you're showing them a problem. So I tell people it's it provides multiple opportunities here in which to engage your employees.
00:12:54
Speaker
and And like I said, in the survey we found, the employees really liked it. they They said, you know something, Sam, at lunchtime, it gives us something to talk about. We do our regular job and now there's something to talk about. It's it's fun.
00:13:07
Speaker
We enjoy it. so So not only well this will this sort help the organization become more efficient, more effective, more productive and more profitable, but it will also reduce the gossip in the office as well.
00:13:22
Speaker
You're giving something new to to focus on. That's exactly right, Michael. Well, there is that element of of working life is that if you simply tell people, come to work and do what you are told,
00:13:36
Speaker
That is what people will do. If you restrict the way in which people can think about the work that they do, you will end up with people who don't believe it's possible for them to think outside the box or to question what it is that they are doing because of the management style and the messages that you're giving people about their role within the organization.
00:13:56
Speaker
If you, as you're saying, make it possible for people to say, yes, if I have an idea, it will be listened to. If you give people challenges and you give them the context of the challenge, then you will get them talking to themselves, talking to each other.
00:14:13
Speaker
The more that people talk in a constructive way, the more teamwork you have, basically, is is the is the reason why you'll end up with more productive people. Exactly. And then when you have a platform that shows people, I want to hear about ideas.
00:14:26
Speaker
Now they they you you're challenging them by saying, here's some problems we have. Now they realize, okay, you are open to trying to solve problems. If they identify problems and solutions to them, they can put them in the system and they know that you have a process in which to to listen to them.
00:14:43
Speaker
Part of this having a process, there are also some more pitfalls in that that we need to think about. People get sidetracked. I had a ah great example. a person put in an ah idea and they said, you know, right now our discounts are applying to too many people.
00:15:01
Speaker
They're not focused on the group we're trying to target. So people are getting discounts that don't deserve discounts. If we could get some money to redo the programming on the pro on the discount system, we could target them much better and it would save the company millions of dollars.
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, sounds like a very reasonable idea. one of the challenges here was management, when they heard about this, they thought, well, this makes no sense at all. Why didn't that line manager understand this and address the problem within their organization.
00:15:32
Speaker
And I said, I don't know why that didn't happen, but I think we need to be careful here. If we go and say we replace that manager, then the message will get out that says if somebody comes up with an idea within your organization, you might lose your job and that's going to stifle innovation.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yes. So, you know, it's tricky here. This is where everybody thinks it's so clean. It's not that clean. you You need to understand that there are problems within the organization and sometimes innovation bring that, bring those out and exposes those. But you've got to be careful how you deal with them.
00:16:06
Speaker
If you you make innovation ah threat to people, then guess what? Innovation is going to stop. That is true. I think from my perspective, the prospect of innovation, the prospect of change can be very threatening to people.
00:16:21
Speaker
And so you do have to take steps to make sure that people can be engaged in the innovation and change process. It is a very human activity.
00:16:32
Speaker
We are constantly changing. We're constantly making decisions that are different to the decisions that we made. yesterday, a week ago, we're trying new things, challenging status quos, norms on so many different levels.
00:16:47
Speaker
We do it subconsciously. What we also need to do is to, when we're doing it in a context outside of ourselves, I think we need some sort of shared way of innovating so that everybody can innovate together and you can reach those great minds think alike type moments.
00:17:07
Speaker
We also need to recognize that when people put out ideas, they're taking a a little risk and they're also trusting you into handling the idea appropriately.
00:17:20
Speaker
And that has multiple levels. Like one is if I give you an idea, Michael, I would expect you take the time to consider it because I took the time to write it up and present it.
00:17:32
Speaker
And so if you don't treat it as important, then obviously I'm going to react to that and decide that obviously you're not sincere about your interests and my ideas. And so I won't provide anymore.
00:17:44
Speaker
So we need to understand there's trust there. Yes, the trust is very, very important. You're reminding me of those times when I've been on training courses and the trainers have said, you know, there's no such thing as a silly question. Ask as many questions as you like about anything you like.
00:18:00
Speaker
And you ask a question and it's like, you're supposed to know this type of thing. You get that that feeling of, I shouldn't have asked that question. They said I could ask any question, but I asked that question and they didn't like it. it's the element you Like you said, the element of trust that my contribution is going to be seriously considered is very important.
00:18:20
Speaker
Very important.
AI's Role in Enhancing Innovation
00:18:22
Speaker
There's a whole human aspect to this as well, but you're also a big advocate of using the technology for innovation as well. So does the technology cause a clash with the human? Does it replace or does it compliment? How do you use technology and and human innovation in the same way? Yeah, so so that's that's where AI is really can be very helpful because, again,
00:18:47
Speaker
AI can help people think about problems. yeah I want to do some innovating, but I don't know what to focus on. AI can help you brainstorm on problems that might be important that you should be considering.
00:18:59
Speaker
So it gets you focused in on a problem. So the AI will do the analysis of the data that would take you a long time to do or analyze it in more depth than you've got the time to do so that you can actually, like we saying earlier, put the challenge of the innovation into a more defined context. You know, it's not hard for AI to say, hey, here are some problems in the industry.
00:19:22
Speaker
And maybe just because you've been in the industry so long, you've just sort of forgotten about them. You're not thinking about them. And it can put them out there. Then the other thing that's important with with AI in terms of helping inventors is inventors tend to get focused. Nothing wrong with it. It's just how we are.
00:19:40
Speaker
We get focused on one problem and one use case. So I'll give you example. yeah When I was ah working, 911 services came about with location.
00:19:52
Speaker
And that was a big deal. and We thought, oh, that's you know location services could be very handy. But most of the company didn't think location services... you know And again, these things always seem obvious after the fact. But in the day, people weren't really thinking about it.
00:20:06
Speaker
So I started thinking about it. And I said, wow. It would be so nice. And this sounds terrible, Michael, because now you're going to say, I told you, Sam, it was too hot. I was thinking when I leave the house,
00:20:18
Speaker
but Air conditioning should be turned down because why should I pay air conditioning in the house when I'm not there? So why couldn't the system automatically tell that, I've moved, I'm no longer in the house because of location services, so turn down the air conditioning so I don't spend money. And then when you could you see me coming back to the house, turn on the air conditioning so it'll be cool when I come back into the house.
00:20:42
Speaker
And so that's where you know I focused on that. But when you think about it, and this is where AI can help, get the inventors out of it and say, well, what's going on here?
00:20:53
Speaker
you're You're looking at an event. In this case, you're focused on distance from the home. And then you're looking at controlling something. you know So it can extrapolate, sort of generalize about the idea a little bit more.
00:21:06
Speaker
And it'll help you get out of your box of just thinking, yeah location, air conditioning. That the idea is much broader than that. And it might have lots of applications. Now, the one thing I will caution you on is, and again, depending on whether you're doing for patents or you're doing it for just ideas, is you know ah people are very nervous about AI being an inventor.
00:21:28
Speaker
And there's a lot of controversy around that. So what we try and do is is make sure that i AI is asking questions of the inventors and not trying to answer questions for the inventors.
00:21:41
Speaker
So you know it can challenge in which the inventors are thinking and and get the inventors to break out and say, could it be this? Could it be, you know, could what's going on here at a broader level?
00:21:51
Speaker
So that's where AI can help inventors not be so focused in their thinking. And then QAI, again, patent quality, artificial intelligence, a prior art search engine.
00:22:04
Speaker
We're using AI to take your concept, allow the inventor to put their concept in natural language, you describe it, and then search. ah both patents and non-patent literature to find out if their idea is novel.
00:22:18
Speaker
Because if you're trying to file a patent, it's all about novelty. Before you had AI, you had to use Boolean searching and you had to worry about if you're doing something with wireless. Do I say wireless? Do I use mobile phone? Do i use cellular phone?
00:22:31
Speaker
You know all these different, you know, gyrations on terms. Now you don't have to worry about any of that. And the AI can do it based on concepts. So the way in which we can check that something is novel if we're going for a patent is easier because of this PQ AI.
00:22:50
Speaker
That's right. I suppose it in the same way, if you're in a large organization and you're trying to solve a problem, the same type of tool would help you find out whether there is somebody else in the organization who's already solved it or is working on finding a solution.
00:23:05
Speaker
Or you could see how other people have addressed this problem. Yes. And you can say, wow, somebody addressed it in this industry like this. Well, couldn't I take that same concept now bring it over to our industry? yeah So there are opportunities here from learning. And that's what patents are about, is about learning from the past and building on it.
00:23:23
Speaker
So there's that opportunity. Plus, the the other piece here is for the team who's evaluating ideas. It helps PQAI, which is integrated into Inspire IP. It helps them evaluate ideas because you can look at not only patents, but you can look at other disclosures that other people have submitted into the system.
00:23:44
Speaker
So you can see, is this idea unique? Have we ever addressed this idea? Maybe two years ago, somebody proposed the same idea. And we found that yeah we wanted to pursue it or we didn't want to pursue it for the following reasons.
00:23:57
Speaker
So now you can find that. And you know particularly when you're getting a lot of ideas, it's hard to remember every idea that's been submitted into the system. So that's where having a search engine like this with AI can make it much easier to de see ideas.
00:24:13
Speaker
You're reminding me of some of the times that I've been involved in change processes where thinking back, a lot of them became quite emotional, where someone, for example, would be convinced that their idea was going to solve the problem that the organization had got. This is the this is definitely, definitely, definitely going to solve the problem.
00:24:33
Speaker
but they didn't convince other people. The emotion destroyed the idea because you got too many, too many different agendas came into it and too many different aspects of ego came into it.
00:24:47
Speaker
What you're describing is a system which removes all of that emotion from the process and enables you to some quite in-depth analysis quite quickly of the idea and the context in which it was presented and also comparing it with what other...
00:25:08
Speaker
what else the organization has done in the past in that area, as well as what is also happening outside the organization as well. That's right. it's ah It's a real analysis type situation. So you you're bound to make, you said, as an HR professional,
00:25:25
Speaker
It sounds as if you're going to be making much much stronger decisions about what ideas and what innovations to put into practice. And therefore, with extra information, you can allocate finances more accurately and appropriately and potentially have they better a chance of success with those ideas.
00:25:50
Speaker
That's correct. and And the other piece we keep should keep in mind is people assume that ideas that come in are polished completely. And a lot of times they aren't completely polished.
00:26:02
Speaker
People have an inkling that this is yeah ah something that could be beneficial to the company. But they don't necessarily know all the details. there's oh you Usually there could be legal issues. There could be cost issues. There could be technology capabilities issues.
00:26:19
Speaker
So I think you want to go at this with the assumption that there's going to be some more analysis that's going to be required. Yes. When you're doing an innovation program, don't assume, and this is what happens a lot of times, that, oh, we're the innovation group.
00:26:34
Speaker
We don't follow the regular processes of the company. We go around the rest of the company because they don't get it. That is a recipe for failure. because you need the rest of the company.
00:26:46
Speaker
That's what makes you successful because you don't have a sales team. You don't have a manufacturing group, whatever it might be. So what I tell people is when you're coming up with new ideas,
00:26:59
Speaker
Again, usually assumption has been broken that the company sort believes in, whether it's, ah you know, this technology is not ready for prime time or that's going to be too costly or customers don't want it, whatever.
00:27:11
Speaker
And you got to test those assumptions. yes And when you test those assumptions, you understand them. And sometimes it it needs to be modified. Then what you've done is, as I think about it, is you've lowered the risk on this idea down to a level that's acceptable for the business unit now to put into their normal.
00:27:31
Speaker
If it's a new product, new product process, if it's, you know, a sales you technique or. something in the operations, now it can be adopted by the business unit and incorporated in their normal process.
00:27:45
Speaker
yes So that's how I tell people to think about it. And that's how we try and set it up with Inspire IP is to have it evaluated, have it refined, and then link it into implementation, whatever part of the company needs to be linked in to get it implemented.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah, it all sounds really very interesting. And I appreciate that in this sort of half an hour that we have, we can only cover so much. We're scratching the surface in many ways. So, you know, Sam, it has been really, really very interesting. You certainly got me thinking. Thank you very much. I do appreciate your time today.
00:28:19
Speaker
Thank you, Michael, for letting me participate like this. Thank you. been real honor. Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abusida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind, Sam Zellner from Inspire IP.
00:28:35
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abusida.co.uk. There is a link in the description. If you are listening to the independent minds on your smartphone, you may like to know that 3.0 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data, so listening on 3.0 means you can wave goodbye to buffering.
00:28:53
Speaker
There is a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from 3.0 and the special offers available when you quote my referral code. That it is a description that is well worth reading.
00:29:07
Speaker
I'm sure you will have enjoyed this episode of The Independent Minds, so please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere. to make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe.
00:29:19
Speaker
Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think. Till the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.