Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
What We Get Wrong About Stripping with Stripper Raven Rose (1-5)
148 Plays2 years ago
This Conversations with Stripper Raven Rose delves deep into the often misunderstood world of stripping, challenging prevalent misconceptions and societal stigmas. Join Raven Rose, a seasoned stripper, as she candidly shares her experiences and insights, shedding light on the realities of the industry.
In this thought-provoking podcast, Raven not only explores the nuances of her profession but also critiques America's puritanical attitudes towards sexuality. She fearlessly addresses the hypocrisy of a culture that simultaneously consumes sexualized content yet shames those who participate in it. Through engaging discussions, Raven advocates for a shift towards greater acceptance and regulation to combat exploitation within the industry.
Listeners are invited to reconsider their preconceived notions as Raven dismantles stereotypes and advocates for a more nuanced understanding of sex work. By challenging societal norms and advocating for change, qw aims to spark conversations that contribute to a more inclusive and compassionate society.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Stripping Misconceptions
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, this is John with the Fun with Sex podcast and I'm here with Raven Rose. And today we're going to talk about some of the misconceptions that happens with stripping.
00:00:12
Speaker
Raven Rose is a, would you describe yourself as a veteran stripper or like how, what is the language used for that? I would say like a veteran. A veteran stripper. I've been in the industry for about five to six years. Okay. And the like turnover rate for dancers is usually very short. So like you're a veteran? At this point, yeah.
Reality vs. Social Media in Stripping
00:00:31
Speaker
And we're just going to sit and talk about like some of the misconceptions that a lot of people have going into stripping, misconceptions that people have about strippers and
00:00:42
Speaker
We're going to talk about the social media trend where a lot of women don't understand the work and the sacrifice that like a lot of strippers do, just like any other labor. And they think that it's a get rich quick scheme. Is that how you would like? Is that what I'd describe? I definitely think that that's what people think when they get into dancing, when they see, you know, the videos online of girls making thousands and thousands of dollars every night.
00:01:11
Speaker
When it comes to social media, you're only seeing the good nights. You know what I mean? So it definitely, I don't think there's a lot of perspective to what doing this as a full-time job looks like when you're just seeing like the fun, exciting, big money nights.
Challenges in the Stripping Industry
00:01:27
Speaker
And how much of the viral videos of someone saying, hey, I made this much money in this month and this night working three hours, how much does that actually show the experience of your average day-to-day stripper? That is, I would say,
00:01:47
Speaker
10% of the time, maybe. 10% of the time? If not less. And is that reserved for people or places like Miami, Atlanta, Las Vegas? Absolutely. Okay. Yeah, those bigger cities, especially Vegas, it's like the stripper hotspot of the fucking country.
00:02:06
Speaker
The party cities, yeah. Absolutely. And I guess that people don't understand like those cities probably have a lot more competition there too. Absolutely. Because like the person who's watching this video on TikTok is not going to be someone who's like realistically talented enough to like move to Vegas and compete with people who are bringing in the big monies because they're probably like the most talented strippers in the industry. Absolutely. Is it just me assuming things or is that? No, I will say that you know like
00:02:34
Speaker
with anything, with any job, practice.
Building a Career in Stripping
00:02:38
Speaker
Your first night dancing, at least my first night dancing, I was fucking horrified. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea how to profit. It just takes time and energy and learning from experience. There's really no guidebook on how this is how you're going to do well in the club that you just learn by doing.
00:03:00
Speaker
And I think that when I watch these videos that go viral, someone's saying, hey, I worked three hours and I made $20,000. A lot of that is selling a lifestyle and a brand where this probably doesn't
00:03:19
Speaker
this probably doesn't define their night to night experience. Absolutely not. This is probably doesn't even define the night that they're claiming to have, but they're trying to sell you a brand. So then you either like buy their products or you watch their videos and they profit off of like the eyes that you give them by them selling you that brand. I don't know if that makes sense or not. Yeah, no, that does. Yeah. Okay. Um, on average, I would say like just me personally,
00:03:45
Speaker
I make between $700 to $1,000 a night. That is not all the time though. That's the average for sure, but there are nights that I go home with nothing, that I go home losing money after paying tip outs, paying house fees. I didn't make anything. You've performed in different cities. What is the difference in how much money you're making depending on the city?
00:04:13
Speaker
So I would say a club that you have put a lot of time into, you are going to make more money there, whether it's in a smaller city or not, because you are building a repertoire, you're building regulars and your own comfortability in that space and how to operate there. Where you are spending the most of your time, the most of your hours is going to impact your money the most.
00:04:40
Speaker
But yeah, when I travel, when I go to Florida, yeah, there's more clientele, there's more people, there's more opportunities than when I'm working in smaller cities. But you know, it's a hustle.
00:04:54
Speaker
The other thing that I wanted to ask you about, a lot of these people on TikTok are pushing us to, hey, you can walk into this club and make this today. Isn't the reality is that if you're a younger, newer stripper, you haven't put in the work to build up that clientele, you're probably not going to make that much money like your first couple rodeos. Probably not. Probably not. Some people get lucky. Again, it's luck, genuinely. You never know who's going to be in the club that night.
00:05:25
Speaker
My first night dancing, I think I made like $80. And that was crazy for me. You know, coming from like a nine to five, making $80 at once felt like insane. A lot of money, yeah. Yeah, no. Realistic expectations your first night, you're not leaving with bands. You know what I mean? And I guess like the other questions I want to ask you, this is getting to the point where we understand that
00:05:53
Speaker
this online persona is BS for a lot of
Stripping Skills and Societal Views
00:05:56
Speaker
people. We also understand that the fear mongering and purity culture that people talk about stripping is also not true. And it seems like the only things that get any type of traction on social media is either I'm going to push this extravagant lifestyle to you, or I'm going to push this narrative that
00:06:16
Speaker
Stripping is like the worst thing on the world to people when in reality it's like, it's any other job, it's labor. It's going to be hard, it's going to be work, but it's not the end of the world. Would you agree with that? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, there's middle ground. Yeah. It is a respectable profession, at least in my opinion. There is more work that goes into it that I think people understand. There is skill needed that can be beneficial
00:06:44
Speaker
And the inevitability that we leave this job, you know what I mean? I mean, it's customer service, it's communication skills. Absolutely. You're selling a product. Yeah. I'm a saleswoman at the end of the day. All these skills that are transferrable to so many different industries. And I think that a lot of people have this moralistic view on sexuality where they don't care about labor being exploited because if they did the same energy that they would have at strip clubs, it would have for Amazon or for McDonald's or restaurants.
00:07:14
Speaker
And they don't care about quote-unquote harm done to society as like a lot of people pushed for jobs that are either like stripping and like sex work or camming because if they did they'd be more angry about people pushing pharmaceutical drugs and people and like
00:07:30
Speaker
finance bros, but I'm getting too political here for it. But like finance bros who buy up housing and leave hundreds of thousands of people homeless. So like their moralistic view has nothing to do with harm done and more to do with them wanting to police sexuality. If that makes sense. I do think especially, it breaks my heart, especially when it comes to other women like talking down on dancers, content creators, cam girls, whatever.
00:08:00
Speaker
You know, it's not like, what does misogyny do to me? It's what can misogyny do for me? That's making me a lot of money. But yeah, I do think that people do have these preconceived notions of the kind of people we are to be doing these jobs.
00:08:21
Speaker
have to work in this industry. We don't. And I think that's like a huge misconception that people have where they think that, Oh, these are just these, there's two different views like I've come across where, Oh my God, these poor girls, poor women are being exploited by this industry to quote unquote sell their body. Or as like all these people are trying to like hurt society and they
00:08:51
Speaker
this is what they do to take advantage over our corrupt, moralistic sexuality, when reality is just like... Of course, you should be able to speak to this. Yeah, no, you're totally fine. But of course, these are just people who are working because all of us have to work underneath capitalism. Yeah. And doing this is no more selling your body than doing backbreaking labor and construction.
00:09:15
Speaker
100%. Yeah.
Personal Experience and Professionalism in Stripping
00:09:18
Speaker
Can you speak forward to the misconceptions that people have? Absolutely. I do think people act like a gun to my head going to work. I have to be here. I have to be doing this. I have no other skills
00:09:30
Speaker
I have no other talents to make a way, make a life for myself that I have to be here. That you're not choosing to do this. Right. It is a choice. I enjoy my job. I decided to be a part of this industry because I enjoy doing it. Yeah. Could I have a fucking regular nine to five like everybody else? Absolutely. Could I go back to school and whatever? Yes, I don't want to.
00:09:53
Speaker
Why would you, if you have a profession that's making you money, you're not going tons of thousands of dollars? How many people do you know that can say that they genuinely enjoy going to work every day? I mean, I don't. I don't. And I feel like most people don't. And I think people use it as a knock against content creating and stripping. They're like, well, some of the people come out afterwards and say they didn't enjoy it. Who enjoys their job?
00:10:20
Speaker
Do you think that like the guys mowing your lawn or like the guys emptying your garbage wake up every day and they're like, I'm so happy to do this. It's capitalism. We're all being fucking exploited. Yeah. I mean, I am lucky enough to say that this job.
00:10:37
Speaker
can be very, very fun. It is a good time. But again, we're going to work. You're going to deal with assholes. You're going to run into situations that might make you uncomfortable a little more directly because of the nature of this job. But thankfully, most of the time,
00:10:54
Speaker
It's a lot of fun. I enjoy being at work. Can we talk about some of the misconceptions that people have, but also how they bring those misconceptions into the club and how that reflects their behavior? Yeah. I think the biggest thing I see a lot when people cut clientele guests come into a club, they forget that we're just people. That we're humans too. I'm just some girl at work.
00:11:21
Speaker
Yeah, you know and there is a level of respect that I deserve Regardless of what I'm wearing how I'm dressed the way I'm interacting with you I think that like speaks to the the difference that like I had in my head between Respectful sexualization and objectification. Yeah, we're like respectful sexualization you still understand that this person that you're viewing is a human and
00:11:49
Speaker
you're sexualizing them, you find them attractive, but you also respect that they have subjectivity and autonomy and that they deserve basic dignity and respect. And when you have objectivity and you objectify a person, you strip all that away from them and you just see them as something you can consume. And do you think that like a lot of guys who go into strip clubs because they're paying quote unquote for an experience, they view dancers as just somebody or some things that they can consume.
00:12:18
Speaker
Absolutely. And I mean, don't get me wrong, we are there to provide an experience that is usually very tactile, that is usually very flirtatious. It is meant to be fun and exciting. I'm not going to be like, sit here and be like,
00:12:32
Speaker
It makes me mad when people grab my ass or people want to look at my tits or whatever. That's why I'm here. That is my job. But there is a way to approach that to make sure that I still get to have fun too. I know what I signed up for. I know I'm going to have to touch people and be touched and have to be very firm in my boundaries, but there is still a level of respect that can be met super easily by just asking. By asking for consent. Is this okay?
00:13:01
Speaker
Where can I touch you? Understand that you're also working with a person who has a bodily autonomy. Yeah. And I guess like this is not necessarily in part with the interview, but you brought up a good point. Does does this help you a certain boundaries and like consent outside of your job to dealing with people? Absolutely. It is definitely taught me in the beginning. And I say this a lot with newer dancers.
00:13:32
Speaker
You have this idea of, well, they're paying me. So yeah, I'm not really okay with that, but I might as well. They're helping make rent this month. You know what I mean? And I don't know, you get over that really fast. I do not owe anybody anything. I already made my money. If you don't want to like, respect my boundaries, then we don't have to do this anymore. And it's,
00:13:56
Speaker
definitely given me a stronger voice to use in and out of work. And like, does that help in, I guess, even outside of like sexual relationships outside of work, just like platonic relationships, like standing up for yourself. Absolutely. And I guess like speak, talking to service. I know a lot of people are nervous about that. Yeah, I like it. Definitely. It's just, again, made my voice stronger. I am, I don't really get nervous or fearful when standing up for myself and like speaking my opinions and making my
00:14:26
Speaker
whatever known. So whatever. We've heard a lot about negative experiences about the job and like setting boundaries.
Freedom and Flexibility in Stripping
00:14:34
Speaker
We've also see a lot online about like, exaggerations, but like,
00:14:39
Speaker
Let's talk about genuine good experiences that we have that we can spread. You get to travel a lot for work, right? I do. There's so much freedom that comes with this industry. It's awesome. I go to work on my time. You set your own schedule? Absolutely. I definitely, because our job is so interactive,
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah. And you have to be very present at work. All we're doing is talking to people and building connections. That can get pretty mentally exhausting and draining. I really hold myself to the standard of if I'm not excited to go to work, I don't have to.
00:15:13
Speaker
I don't have to put on a show. A freedom that so many people wish they had. Yeah. I don't make money when I'm not on. I'm not going to work. I don't have to. There's so much freedom, which is incredible. My quality of life, I think, is insane because of the freedom that my job gives me. What has been some of the favorite cities that you got to perform in?
00:15:42
Speaker
You know, I do love me some Cleveland. Okay. I love dancing. Your hometown. I love it there. I also love Fort Lauderdale. Some really cool clubs out there. Have you been out of Miami? I haven't danced in Miami yet, actually. I usually go to Fort Lauderdale. No live experience? No. Okay. Not yet. We'll see. Vegas is fun. Okay. It's a lot. It's intense.
00:16:06
Speaker
You have to be like on your game in Vegas. It's just, yeah, it's very, I would say overwhelming. And the way you do the job definitely changes in a major city compared to somewhere like Chicago or like Cleveland. Um, still really fun though. More like a, like your typical like club club.
00:16:21
Speaker
experience out there. What about Atlanta? Have you been to Atlanta? I have. Oh, how was that? I love it there. I didn't like Atlanta's known as like the strip club capital of the world. It was so fun. Yeah, it was like I was honestly very surprised at like just the level of like respect I got not only from like the guests, but also like management and other dancers and things like that.
00:16:41
Speaker
Does that come from that city having a long history of strip clubs and stripping and how to behave in those spaces? I would assume. There's just some killer etiquette going around that doesn't really get talked about anymore. Quick question.
Strip Clubs and Clientele Perspectives
00:16:59
Speaker
There's also a lot of stereotypes about
00:17:02
Speaker
the type of people who go to ship clubs. Of course, you're going to have really good. You're going to have really bad. Can you describe me like the different types of people? Are they just like your normal human beings? Yeah. Like the people that come and see me at work, they're your neighbors, your doctors, police officers, teachers, teachers. Possibly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, thankfully I get like 90% of the interactions I have
00:17:31
Speaker
are overwhelmingly positive. Of course there's gonna be douchebags every once in a while, but most of the time, the people that are here, they wanna have a good time, and they wanna have a good time with me. So we're gonna party. I think this speaks to a deeper rooted issue when discussing sexuality in America is that everybody points fingers at the other person who has this fantasy, who goes to strip clubs to do this, when reality
00:17:58
Speaker
It's your average person because your average person experiences sexuality is just that we've repressed it so much that we are afraid to admit it that it's us. Me and my partner go to strip clubs together. We also go to political rallies together. We also go out to dinner together. We also walk around the neighborhood like an ordinary couple.
00:18:19
Speaker
And it's like the same people who, my experiences, the same people who go to strip clubs are the same people who will be sitting next to you in church. Absolutely. Yeah. It blows my mind that this industry is still so taboo. Yeah. It's 2024. Can we get over it? Yeah. People like boobs. We're human and the thing is entertainment. It's companionship. It's company that for some people, they can't get that anywhere else.
00:18:44
Speaker
Also like the moralistic idea of it is like at the end of the day who's getting hurt by someone going to a strip club or who's getting hurt by someone subscribing to an only fans and like when people I think a lot of times people lie and pretend that their issue with Stripping only fans poor is like well the people are being exploited and it's like well, okay Let's fight for their rights. Let's fight for their labor rights and
00:19:11
Speaker
You can do that while still respecting the worker in their industry and not having some unhand moralistic view on sexuality while saying like, Hey, I respect your, your autonomy to participate in whatever work you feel most fulfilled doing while also saying, fuck the people who are like running it.
00:19:31
Speaker
not because they shouldn't be running because of sexuality reasons, but they shouldn't be running it because like capitalistic reasons. I don't know if you've been paying attention what's happening to like Washington and like passing the strippers bill of right in that state. I did see that. Yeah. Would you want to talk about like the importance of that or we don't have to. Oh, okay. Absolutely.
Labor Rights and Stripping as Work
00:19:48
Speaker
And there was also, I believe this happened in California where there was the first like labor union for dance. I saw that. Which is huge. There is so much
00:20:00
Speaker
so much like gray area, I guess, when it comes to how we are treated by our employers. Yeah. Not even like the guests, right? But the people that are running these huge chains of clubs, the people, the management that's there every night, you know, there's no standardization to our treatment. And in some places, it's fucked up. And I think that's, I'm sorry, did I cut you off? A little bit. Okay. But the fact that, you know,
00:20:31
Speaker
Again, this is so small. You know, it's one club in one city, but it's still like huge steps for our industry as a whole and just fair treatment for us in the workplace. And I think that like, that's the issue when you make a topic taboo and you don't talk about it is then the people who are inside this job
00:20:55
Speaker
are more vulnerable to be exploited. Absolutely. Because then one, we dehumanize the people who are doing it because we have these like crazy moralistic views about them. But two, because we don't talk about it, we can't talk about their experiences and how they're actually being exploited. Yeah. And I think that like this is again taking a weird but like the idea of like sex trafficking and like sex work is huge in strip clubs. Yeah. Like you wouldn't it's insane. And the thing is like,
00:21:23
Speaker
if you legalize things like sex work or even decriminalize it, sex workers can go report when they're actually being sex trafficked versus, hey, me as an autonomous person have decided I want to do this occupation. Right. I, sex work is the oldest profession ever. It's not going away. Why are we, I mean, I would say most sex workers are women, but why are we still like,
00:21:52
Speaker
taking away my right to use my body in a way that I may want to. Yeah. It's insane. And the thing about it is like, it's a physical job. So has been a professional athlete. Yeah. So was doing construction. So was being a teacher or like any other job that requires you to be on your feet for long periods of time. And we don't care about them using their bodies. And I think like, again, it comes down to people having these
00:22:22
Speaker
moralistic views on sexuality. Oh, yeah. It's because our country is ran by people that like participate in radical religious practices. Yeah. And then you get like the Congressperson down in Florida who like may or may or may not have participated in like sex trafficking and sex with minors. Crazy. God forbid I'm a stripper. I guess like
00:22:50
Speaker
getting back since we've like covered the importance of regulations. What type of things like stereotypes and like misconceptions would you want people listen to the podcast and know about like, they're not sure about strippers and strip clubs. Yeah. Um, I one of my like favorite examples to give to people is I've had this happen to me a handful of times where a woman will come to a strip club for the first time and we'll hang out and she'll be like,
00:23:20
Speaker
This is not what I expected at all. This is so much fun. We are just people and we are here to provide an experience that may be intimate, but it is not like inherently sexual and it doesn't have to be. Um, we like to talk. We like to have a cocktail. We are, we like, we want to hang out. We want to get to know you. We're not all drug addicts that are doing extras in the back and bad people that like,
00:23:47
Speaker
A lot of the girls that I work with are like putting themselves through nursing school and shit, which is awesome. I'm not one of those. Yeah, which is also totally fine. This job does not have to be a stepping stone to something else for everybody. We are just people. And at the end of the day, it's just a performance and a service. Absolutely. Yeah, it is a we are we are entertainers. It's not like you're pushing opioids to people on a national level and
00:24:15
Speaker
lobbying congress allow you to like get hundreds of thousands of americans addicted to drugs, you know, like Those people should probably be in jail Sackler family those people should probably be in jail but what you're providing is just comfort conversation and like a dance performance and why it's not like a Moralistic, I really think that people just assume that you know, we are all like prostitutes Yeah, which first of all get your bag period but
00:24:44
Speaker
Nine times out of 10, when I do like private dances or private rooms, we're just talking. I'm not even dancing. Sometimes people don't want that. They're like, I just like you. Let's hang out. Let's share a bottle of champagne and get to know each other. And that's it. And for like the last couple minutes of the conversation, I've heard that that's like a common experience for a lot of strippers where the people who come to strip clubs are literally just people who are like, I'm bored and lonely. And I want like somebody to talk to or like,
00:25:15
Speaker
I need somebody to hang out for tonight and they have a micro community, which is a country where people are struggling with a loneliest epidemic and struggling with suicide due to loneliness. Why do we want to deny people community?
Community and Identity in Stripping
00:25:29
Speaker
Honestly, the parts of this job that have been so fulfilling for me is to not only have these interactions with people that just needed to vent. They needed someone to listen and this is the only place that they could think to go, which that's also why we're here.
00:25:43
Speaker
Yeah. But also watching like my regulars every week, like make friends and like have little like boys night club every week. It's so sweet. It really, we are just like a tiny community. And like I've heard that like a lot of strippers also double as basically therapists. We are underpaid therapists. Yeah. Well, there's like maybe overpaid therapists. A lot of men who come in who like have issues with being like vulnerable and like,
00:26:13
Speaker
due to societal expectations of masculinity, they can't be vulnerable to their partner. So like they'll buy like a private room just to be like vulnerable to like a stripper. Yeah. You know, we are, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, like omnipotent. I guess, you know, we don't know these people and we won't know them the second they leave. So it's very, there's something very freeing about just like venting and talking and bouncing ideas off of somebody that has no preconceived notions about you.
00:26:41
Speaker
Inanimity is powerful. Yeah, I know that there's like a very common trope of like us soldiers who come home who are like I Haven't been touched or vulnerable and like I've been to SD For a long I mean while I was overseas and haven't been touched for like a long time in the first places They either go to a strip club where they find a sex worker. Yeah, they're just like I just need some type of like
00:27:06
Speaker
physical and emotional vulnerability. I've had guests who just wanted to hug. Yeah. They're like, you don't have to dance. I can just use a hug. It's honestly kind of sad, but I'm glad that we can provide that service at the very least. And there's probably nowhere else for them to get that type of outlet. Or you can just be that type of vulnerable. Right. To be vulnerable. So I guess in this conversation,
00:27:35
Speaker
all these like skills and like different benefits that like stripping does. Final question, do you consider stripping sex work? Or do you think those are two completely different things? I do consider it sex work. Okay. I know that's like such a like hot button phrase these days. Because of course, when you think sex work, you think like prostitution, totally get it. But I like to view it and a lot of us do as like an umbrella term. Yeah. You know, we are using our sexuality as our, you know, occupation.
00:28:05
Speaker
and connecting with people and performing. I mean, it's the same thing. Like you would consider like camming sex work, right? So same thing, just not through a screen. That's like my general definition that like anything is sex work if you're using the power of sexuality and like the point is to like get at the job is the point to get like some type of sexual also out of the person. Yeah. And like I think that like that goes further to like destigmatizing sex work because then
00:28:35
Speaker
You get alert lines like, what about hooters? And it's like, once you realize how common everybody participates in sex work, whether it's actually buying a prostitute or going to a strip club or going to a restaurant where probably the people there are probably way more exploited than all the other groups. 100%. We all participate in it. Yeah. Yeah. And we just need to stop repressing it and be more honest about it. I couldn't agree more.
00:29:02
Speaker
All right. Thank you, Raven. I've really enjoyed this conversation. It was so fun. We should do this again sometime. We should do this again sometime.