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Flirting in an Ethical Way
41 Plays5 hours ago
On today's episode of the Fun with Sex Podcast, we have guest Rachela on to discuss how to flirt in an ethical way. We cover how to flirt, things to avoid, consent, and more!
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Transcript
Introduction to Ethical Flirting and Guest Speaker
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Fun with Sex podcast. So today i have a very special guest to talk about the ethics of flirting and how to flirt in a more ethical way.
00:00:14
Speaker
So today i have Raquel on and do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience? Yeah, absolutely. My name is Raquel Rinaldi. um I am a licensed clinical professional counselor um and a licensed sex offender treatment provider.
00:00:31
Speaker
So I'm really excited to talk about this from the perspective of both someone who works with couples and teenagers, teaching them how flirt for the first time or um newly dating, but also teaching people who already have problems with um boundaries and sexually problematic behavior to teach them how to do this more appropriately.
Understanding Society's Impact on Flirting
00:00:53
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm so excited to have this perspective on the show because I think, you know, there's kind of two sides of the coin with this topic. There's people where they're so well intentioned that they get a bit nervous approaching people. They don't want to be that creepy, weird person. They're afraid of making people uncomfortable.
00:01:14
Speaker
um But then this topic also creates a lot of awareness for people where, you know, that society has just kind of impacted them in a way where their perception of how to flirt and approach people is very much not the right vibe.
00:01:29
Speaker
Absolutely skewed. um So yeah, this is just creating more awareness around that topic and around how to flirt in a way that really puts someone's personhood first and makes people feel good.
00:01:43
Speaker
And does it make people uncomfortable?
Defining Unethical Flirting and the Importance of Intention
00:01:46
Speaker
So without further ado, let's get right into it so getting into what is unethical flirting, Raquel, how would you define what that is?
00:02:00
Speaker
say that unethical flirting would be focusing on something that creates discomfort in that person. So if the purpose would be to manipulate or to make someone else jealous.
00:02:13
Speaker
So I think the intention behind what the flirting is for is a big deal, but also in the way that you're approaching or what you are using as a tool to flirt.
Power Dynamics and Consent in Flirting
00:02:25
Speaker
Yeah, I like that word tool a lot. Because, you know, coming from the perspective of being a woman, just thinking about getting ah approached in different places and how people approach you.
00:02:38
Speaker
um And we'll get into that as well as kind of like, what are some things to avoid? um it's this idea of like you're trying to get at the same thing that other people are trying to get at, but they do it in a way that doesn't make me feel bad.
00:02:56
Speaker
um And it's like you're trying to get at that same thing, but the way you're going about it is just all wrong. Yeah. And I think a lot of the time people will kind of take on those power dynamics.
00:03:07
Speaker
And when that imbalance happens, it makes it really difficult to flirt ethically. Yeah. Oh, yeah, 100%. So getting into that idea of power dynamics, being in situations where you're uncomfortable, um i want to get into what is a good time and place.
00:03:26
Speaker
Because when I think about, you know, power dynamics, one of the big ones that comes to mind is like when somebody's on the clock. That's a big thing people want to you know flirt with bartenders, retail workers.
00:03:41
Speaker
But speaking from experience and from a lot of people's experiences that they've shared, that can be really difficult because you're on the clock. you can't You have to be polite. You have to be friendly.
00:03:53
Speaker
and sadly, people that aren't good with boundaries are not good with understanding that. But even somebody who doesn't have ill intent may not realize that as well, that like there is an inherent power dynamic there when you flirt with someone who is working.
00:04:12
Speaker
um Another example I can think of is like, you know, I feel like one that's more divisive is when you're at the gym. I'm personally like, when I'm working out, I just want to focus on my workout. I know some people are more open to being approached.
00:04:29
Speaker
um But I think like, a good idea here to kind of use as a litmus test is just simply asking for consent. So, you know, asking, are you open to be an approach like, hey, are you busy
The Role of Nonverbal Cues in Flirting
00:04:44
Speaker
right now? Or would you want to talk at all um is a really good route to go.
00:04:49
Speaker
So but would you say are some good things to avoid when you're trying to flirt with someone and you're trying to figure out if it's a good time and place to do so?
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think um obviously reading the environment, figuring out like, is this an environment where this person could be open to having this conversation? um Not necessarily that if somebody's on the clock that it's completely off limits, but I think there's a right way to do it.
00:05:16
Speaker
um Let's say somebody is bartending or serving. um giving them the option of like writing your number down on a piece of paper where the the option of talking to you or reaching out to you is on them at that point.
00:05:31
Speaker
Yeah. um I'm also thinking about um just kind of that first step, like you said, with consent, feeling it out, that first approach and what what feedback you're getting, whether that's verbally or through body language is going to be such a huge indicator of whether or not to move forward.
00:05:47
Speaker
Yeah, I like that idea too, when it is somebody who's on the clock, just leaving your number, then in their own free time, they can decide if they want to pursue things. um Body language is definitely a nonverbal cues are a huge part of this as well.
Engaging Respectfully: Compliments and Questions
00:06:03
Speaker
And feeling it out, you know, when you first walk up to someone, and you're going approach them, do they have a more open look on their face? Are they making eye contact? Is their body language very open versus closed off
00:06:19
Speaker
Are they avoiding eye contact? Are they kind of shrinking away? um So those are some nonverbal cues. Do you have any others that you would say are good ones to watch out for?
00:06:31
Speaker
I'm thinking of one based on like as a woman, one that i use typically is if I'm with a group of friends and I give the look to another friend, like help me. i think that's a good indicator.
00:06:42
Speaker
um i think what's difficult with this is that it's almost something that either feels natural for you or I'm thinking of people that might be neurodivergent who don't necessarily have the skill set to recognize that body language or those kind of subtle cues.
00:06:58
Speaker
I think this can be a topic that can be explored um in a different way, like with a therapist or in skill building exercises. But I recognize it's not as easy as just saying, well, look out for the cues.
00:07:10
Speaker
Yes, that's why I always love with nonverbal cues to not keep it vague and really list it out because I do understand it's very difficult to, if you're neurodivergent, be able to pick up on that.
00:07:23
Speaker
um I'm neurodivergent. did a whole podcast episode on it. And that's like a big thing for me too. And that we talked about is like not even realizing someone's flirting because you don't get the cues um and that sort of thing.
00:07:38
Speaker
um So yeah. And I would say another one too is like if they seem hesitant to answer. Totally. you're like, hey, are you busy right now? Or do you want to talk? And if they're kind of like, uh...
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, I can talk. You know, you can just say, hey, no worries. It seems like you're busy. But, you know, would you want to exchange contact info and talk at a better time?
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, a great way to... Check for consent, check for nonverbal cues, and make sure that you're putting them and their well-being first. Yeah. And even, um like, i think a great way to kind of get your foot in the door is starting off maybe with a compliment, maybe something that's not as um overtly aggressive or anything um that maybe has to do with them as a as a, in regard to physical appearance, but maybe something like um asking about an interest that they have, or um maybe something that they're wearing.
00:08:42
Speaker
Yes, yeah. And that's like a big thing I wanted to get into as well is just actually how to flirt. um Because I think that's always the question on everyone's mind is like, how do I approach people? How do I do things?
00:08:57
Speaker
Because right historically in society, we've kind of had ah this concept where it's very much the, you know, mask person is supposed to approach the femme person and it's supposed to be very intense and overtly at times overtly sexual you're just kind of supposed to go to whatever means necessary to make sure they understand how into you they are and it's you know i think this weird pressure it's kind of implied that if you don't do that if you don't
00:09:37
Speaker
go that hardcore. And, you know, honestly, from the femme perspective, it's too much for most people. But I think a lot of these people raised as men kind of have that ingrained in their brain that, you know, people aren't going to pick up on it if you don't do it that way, or that you don't quote unquote have game if you don't have like compliments and lines and sexual things to say um but i think that's a big one when it comes to flirting like you said is avoiding things that are very overtly sexual right away because that that is just tiptoeing into when people feel actually harassed and objectified um i think you know non-sexual compliments are great like
00:10:29
Speaker
Something like you have a great smile or you know, hey, like, what are you drinking tonight? That looks super good. um You know, if you meet someone in a coffee shop, like, oh, hey, what did you get? matcha? I haven't tried that before.
00:10:44
Speaker
oh, do you come here a lot and just kind of start a conversation? um So yeah, good compliments, things that aren't too much or too overtly sexual um is always a good way to go Just asking questions.
00:11:01
Speaker
I think also another aspect of this is you know trying to get to know them in order to see if there's compatibility there. without being too overly intimate right away.
Handling Rejection with Respect and Understanding
00:11:14
Speaker
I think that's another thing I've noticed on the dating scene is there's some people where it's very much they want to get really deep right away, which works for some people, but also for a lot of people that can make them uncomfortable. I mean, i had this guy once who was like, oh, why do you get your nails that shape?
00:11:38
Speaker
And at first I was like, oh, okay, this is like an interesting interesting conversation starter. I'm into nails. You can see my nails. Because like normally a compliment on my nails, like, oh, I like your nails. I was like, oh, you know, that's always nice.
00:11:51
Speaker
um And I was like, oh, I just got coughing because... I like it. It's just always what I've gone for. And he was like, no, but why? i i think that you can really tell a lot about the psychology of a woman based on the shape of her nails.
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah. So... yeah um Would you say there's like any specific intimate questions or two personal questions that are good to avoid?
00:12:22
Speaker
um Definitely. i would say um that like obviously when you're approaching somebody to flirt, the only thing that you're basing it off of is the way that they look. So we're basing that on a superficial basis of this person. So to, like you said, understand them at a different level, see if you're compatible, but also avoiding some of the
00:12:47
Speaker
maybe questions that you wouldn't ask somebody on a first date or even a question that you might not ask a close friend. Um, I'm thinking as someone who's very heavily tattooed, I don't like when people ask personal questions about my tattoos.
00:13:03
Speaker
think a lot of them can be super, um, private and things that I don't even talk to my partner about. And so, um, I think there's a difference between approaching somebody and saying, Hey, I really like your tattoos versus,
00:13:16
Speaker
um One, asking two personal of questions or also kind of flipping it on yourself. um I get a lot of the, oh, that's a really cool tattoo. Check out my cross tattoo.
00:13:27
Speaker
but Yeah. No, that definitely is a good point as well. that when it like I think that's why asking questions is good as well because I think there are a lot of people – you know, they come away from flirting conversations or first dates and it's very much so just kind of someone talking at you and not really trying to learn anything about you.
00:13:53
Speaker
I know I've been in those experiences and I'm just kind of like, So like getting back to the superficial thing, like why are you into me then? Because it seems like it's just based on the superficial first impression of how I look and not just to actually anything personal about me.
00:14:13
Speaker
um But what would you say are like some good questions to ask someone to get to know them? um I think there's a way to get like kind of deep without being...
00:14:25
Speaker
too overly personal. um I would say some good questions. i I'm a big foodie, so always going to food, asking for suggestions about food or um that kind of thing.
00:14:36
Speaker
Music, I think, is a really easy one to go to. And especially if um you're meeting out like in the real world, talking about things that are local. So if you're both in the same area, different places that you go to, um i think that can make it a little bit more um personal than just talking about like the weather or something. Yeah. But still make it respectful and um showing actual genuine interest in someone.
00:15:04
Speaker
Yeah, like finding a way to get to know, you know, who is this person? What do they do in their free time? I feel like the one in Chicago is always like, what neighborhood do you live in? and and it seems like these questions seem so basic and simple, but...
00:15:20
Speaker
you know When you build on it and keep the conversation going, you can actually learn a lot because it's like, oh, I live here. oh do you go to a lot of places there? like i know you know I go to this restaurant here or do you hang out in other neighborhoods?
00:15:35
Speaker
Yeah. oh, well, like, you know, I'm a foodie, I like to eat, or I like to go to cocktail bars or coffee shops. Like, oh, cool. What do you do at coffee shops? Do you like to work? Do you read?
00:15:48
Speaker
um Just really getting to know someone outside of the basic name, what do you do for work, small talk sort of thing is definitely nice and appreciated.
00:16:00
Speaker
ah Yeah. So, you know, we covered how to flirt. So how, like, what would you say are just some hands down red flags to avoid when it comes to flirting, like things that just under any circumstance are not okay? Yeah.
00:16:20
Speaker
um I think obviously speaking on someone's body in general, whether it's their size, aspects of their body, um i would avoid any of that, especially initially. I think that takes a long time to get to a point where you can compliment somebody on aspects of their body. Yeah.
00:16:40
Speaker
I would also kind of go back to that idea of the power differential. So what I'm thinking about is like somebody catcalling out of a car to somebody like walking down the street. Um, in that situation, like as someone who's obviously experienced that as a woman, um,
00:16:55
Speaker
It's never a situation where somebody does that and then I say, wow, I'm really excited to go approach that car. Literally. talk this guy or this girl. um So I think the concept of recognizing that that power dynamic there, obviously that person is not going to b feel respected. They're going to feel pretty vulnerable and also probably not going to be comfortable enough to approach your car or have any reason to want to approach your car in that place.
00:17:25
Speaker
I know. That's what I always think about catcalling too, is just like, what what do you think is going to happen? Do you think I'm going to like chase after your car and be like, yes oh my God? um But yeah, comments on body, definitely a avoid.
00:17:42
Speaker
um i would just say any... and he sexual comments sexual innuendos um derogatory language I would say too yes um just like the typical yeah um and also like um I think sometimes like people being fetishized so commenting on like racial aspects of things or things like that I think can be um just really uncomfortable yeah Yeah, and definitely not making any assumptions about the person based on their gender, their race, their ethnicity.
00:18:18
Speaker
um It's really an opportunity to get to know them as an individual and a person. So, you know, stay away from any jumping to conclusions or assuming something about someone just based on a demographic that they are.
Embracing Positive Flirting Experiences
00:18:36
Speaker
Um, so yeah, those are definitely all good things to avoid. um but I think a big thing that for people who are in the boat where they are a bit afraid to flirt, they are a bit afraid to approach people is the idea of rejection. And there are a lot of people who experience rejection sensitivity as well.
00:19:00
Speaker
So how would you say somebody should go about handling rejection. Yeah. So this is something I teach really frequently, especially when I'm working um with sex offender treatment.
00:19:13
Speaker
um People that are um difficult in handling rejection, whether from an insecurity standpoint or just from um an emotional dysregulation standpoint, kind of thinking about and recognizing um why a rejection may have occurred.
00:19:27
Speaker
So again, usually you're approaching somebody and it's very superficial. um Maybe this person has a partner. Maybe this person is monogamous. There are a million reasons that have nothing to do with you um that they could be rejecting you. But the big thing is that to make that person understand that it is a completely consensual conversation, that they need to feel like, um,
00:19:50
Speaker
they can say no in a safe way. Yes. um So obviously responding by saying like, well, fuck you, you're ugly anyways. Yeah. Not a helpful way, but just being able to be appropriate, be respectful, say, hey, I appreciate it.
00:20:05
Speaker
No problem. Walk away. Yes, 100%. Yeah. um yeah Any kind of negative reaction is when you really get into people feeling coerced, perceived,
00:20:19
Speaker
to proceed proceed things. um And even like in an unintentional way as well, like, you may obviously feel sad you were into this person, but trying to be conscious of not, you know, showing that on your face or making them feel any type of pressure to continue this conversation if they don't want to And exactly what you were saying too, like don't internalize it and feel like there's something wrong with you. There could be a million and one reasons. Like you said, they could have a partner. They could be in one of those in-between stages where they just started dating someone and they don't know if they want to date other people too.
00:21:05
Speaker
They could be in a place in life where they're just so busy that dating is not on their mind. They could have some kind of sickness in their family where they're taking care of someone and they just don't have time to date.
00:21:16
Speaker
So don't jump to any crazy conclusions and feel like, oh God, I'm just so ugly. No one wants me. um Because there will be people out there who want you. And this is just one person in the grand scheme of things. And you will not remember it many years to come. Fair.
00:21:34
Speaker
Um, so yeah, I think we've covered everything. Was there anything else you wanted to add? Um, I guess like ah good question would be like, if you remember the time that someone flirted with you where you were like, that was really good. and That was really great.
00:21:52
Speaker
I think like, There's a few instances. I think one good opening line someone said at a bar that it was like very an open way to and a unique way to say the whole like, do you want to drink? Because I feel like, you know, that's been said so many times, but You know, this guy was just like, you look like you need a shot.
00:22:16
Speaker
Yeah. And I was like, that was a funny way to say that, you know. um Another good one I had, which, again, back to the idea of rejection. I was in New York. I wasn't like looking to meet new people. So I didn't pursue things with this person.
00:22:32
Speaker
But I did think it was a good observation. i just happened to have cheetah print nails and also a cheetah print skirt. And he was like, oh, do you always match your nails to your outfit?
00:22:44
Speaker
And I was like, oh, that's like a really like good observation and good way to start a conversation. um And the thing I'd say to people as well who are nervous about flirting is anytime somebody is very well intentioned and respectful avoids any like overt sexualization, really like even if I'm not interested, i genuinely walk away from it feeling good and not thinking negatively of them and you know, just thinking positively of them that they're a nice person. so
00:23:19
Speaker
Yeah, don't be afraid. I think If it doesn't work out with that person, just remember there's so many people out there. um and just remember tips and you'll do great.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah. I think it's a great way to spread some kindness in this world. So even if it doesn't turn out in your favor, you may have made someone else's day. And I mean, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. so Yes, 100%. Awesome.
00:23:46
Speaker
Well, this has been the Fun With Sex podcast and we'll see you next time.