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00:00:01
Reacting to ENM Reddit Stories with Nicole
0 Playsin 15 minutes
Today Nicole (@freeformcoaching) and I react to to questions Redditors have asked online about their ENM relationships. We share valuable insights that can be helpful whether you're new to ENM or not.
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the Fun With Sex podcast. So today i have our guest Nicole on again, because we are going to be doing another episode where we respond to Reddit questions that users have online in the E&M Reddits.
00:00:21
Speaker
um Because as you guys know, I love reading through... The Reddit questions and just, you know, having fun little thought experiments with myself and also see like the interesting things going on on the corners of the Internet, you know, yeahs very excited to ah give some insight into these questions people are asking.
00:00:44
Speaker
Yes, and if you haven't seen the other episode we had Nicole on, Nicole um runs an E&M coaching business. So this will be some actual good tangible advice outside of just, you know, my brain.
Communication Between Meetups
00:01:00
Speaker
um So let's get right into it. So it says, new to E&M, question about communication between meetups. Hi all, I'm fairly new to non-monogamy and want to get a sense check from people who have been doing this longer than I have.
00:01:14
Speaker
I've been seeing someone for almost five months now. As far as I understand, they don't have a primary or anchor partner. They date multiple people, some of whom they've been seen for a long time, and I'm the newest connection.
00:01:26
Speaker
Something I've been noticing and adjusting to you is the communication style. When we see each other in person, the connection is great, good chemistry, intimacy, easy time together. But once we part, there's usually very little communication until we're talking logistics for the next meetup.
00:01:41
Speaker
There really isn't any in-between connection. I'm not looking for constant texting or daily check-ins, but coming from a more monogamous background, it feels a bit strange to go from feeling connected in person to almost a full disconnect until plans are made again. I'm trying to figure out whether this is just a different and normal E&M dating style or whether I might be bringing monogamous expectations into a non-monogamous dynamic without realizing.
00:02:09
Speaker
Yeah, i think
00:02:12
Speaker
I think this is why communicating, like, before you even get into a dynamic about expectations is really, really key here. um It kind of sounds like maybe the, I believe they said it's a guy, right?
00:02:30
Speaker
Yeah. It sounds like the guy they're dating um kind of has expectations for more of a comet partner style. Yeah. Whereas it seems like, you know, what she's wanting is something a little bit different and a little bit more intermeshed into each other's day-to-day lives. and what I would say is, like, that's perfectly okay.
00:02:53
Speaker
I don't think you're pushing monogamous expectations by... wanting some communication between meetups quite at all. um i think like that is a totally normal thing to want. I mean, for example, me and my partners, we tend to text and call in between our dates and everything, um especially my partners that I don't live with who aren't my nesting partner. So yeah I don't think you're pushing monogamy at all, I think.
00:03:25
Speaker
um You guys just need to have like a serious conversation about expectations and decide if this person is really for you. it you know, because maybe they just didn't know that you wanted to text in between meetups. But there's also a chance that that's just not something they desire to
Assumptions in Relationships
00:03:44
Speaker
do.
00:03:44
Speaker
Yeah, something that's coming up for me here is thinking about my experience as a couples therapist working with monogamous couples and monogamous people in general. um Something that's really common in monogamy is operating based on assumptions a lot.
00:04:01
Speaker
Like people assume so many things because they think relationships should be this way, right? And so with non-monogamy, because there's so many different ways you can do it and there isn't really a blueprint, you really can't operate off of assumptions. Like you really have to communicate clearly. and I agree with you. It's about, right, like you being clear about what your capacity is or you being clear about what your expectations are. And then that way your partners can say, yes, I can meet those expectations or no, I don't have the capacity to do that. Um, which sometimes it means you have to deescalate your relationships or end those relationships, of course. Um, but I think it's much better when everyone on all sides clear about what they're looking for what they can and can't provide. So then everyone can consent to being in a relationship dynamic that feels, um,
00:04:53
Speaker
like what they really want, what they need from the dynamic. Yeah, I totally agree. all right, so next person.
Navigating Disclosure and Rejection
00:05:03
Speaker
37 female, started dating again earlier this year after ending a 15-year monogamous relationship.
00:05:10
Speaker
The idea of a non-monogamous relationship had never occurred to me before I dated a poly guy a few months ago, but it did open my mind up. I've currently been seeing a man who practices E&M with his wife for about five weeks now.
00:05:24
Speaker
He's absolutely wonderful and he says he's fully supportive of whatever I want to do relationship wise. Like if I decide I want a monogamous relationship with someone, I'll understand and be supportive even though he'd miss me.
00:05:36
Speaker
I've talked with his wife and she's lovely. We're kind of friends now. He makes me insanely happy. My issue is that I'm also seeing someone else right now. He and I started talking the day that my E&M guy and I had our first date.
00:05:49
Speaker
He lives in my city. E&M guy lives an hour away. i get to see him more often, but for less time than I usually get my E&M guy. I'm not sure if I see anything serious with him, but I potentially could. I do really like him and he's very sweet.
00:06:03
Speaker
My problem is that I don't know how to bring up the E&M guy to him. Should I even bring it up? I don't think we're anywhere near talking about exclusivity or anything, but I also don't want him to feel blindsided when he finds out that I've also been seeing someone else this whole time, and that I don't really want to stop seeing either one of them.
00:06:21
Speaker
I know this probably sounds ridiculous, but having been out of the dating loop since 2010 and I was barely in it then has me all confused about protocols these days. I have a lot to say. yes Go ahead. So there's so much there.
Transparency and Informed Consent
00:06:36
Speaker
um in general i think it's really really important especially in em to be fully transparent um if you have more than one relationship or play partner not saying that you have to be detailed about what those relationships are like or what kind of play you do but more so from a safety perspective right like when it comes to sexual health um if you're seeing more than one person
00:07:05
Speaker
everyone should have total informed consent meaning part of it being like yes STI status what protection are you using or not using um but unfortunately with monogamous people that is so not the norm it's actually very taboo to talk about testing um people tend to not be as communicative or even like uh practice safe sex practices the way that non-monogamous people do so at a baseline i feel it's important for all partners to know about what everyone's doing right but then
00:07:41
Speaker
when you're dating someone who's not non-monogamous, that can be tricky, right? Because they have their own ideas and expectations as far as what's normal or not.
00:07:51
Speaker
um I can say from personal experience, um I have tried to date outside of the community and usually it doesn't work out because it's just not for that person.
00:08:04
Speaker
And so what I'm hearing in this is maybe like, um, this fear of losing this person, this fear of rejection, right? But um you're also, in order to not lose the monogamous person you're dating, you're not being fully honest about who you are, right? yeah So like, you're kind of being rejected to begin with, because they're not dating you for the person you truly are. They're dating they think you are. um And so that's tricky, right? If you really like someone and don't want to lose them. But at the same time, that honesty is so, so important, right? Because if feelings do get deeper, there's more expectations. It's going to be like totally blindsiding for you to tell them, oh, by the way, I'm poly, right? um I think that's something that needs to be talked about, like first date and no later than that.
00:08:59
Speaker
I totally agree. i think, um you know, everything to do with consent as well. But on top of that, this is a core part of your identity now. And don't get me wrong, there's people who monogamous and they feel they can be monogamous or E&M. m So that's something to think about. And if that is you,
00:09:22
Speaker
either way, you should be communicating that part of your identity to both partners. um It's before you are in a relationship and you discuss terms with your partner about what you would like to know about metas and dates and all of that kind of boundary stuff.
00:09:41
Speaker
But since you're not a relationship with this guy, you don't even have to really go into like deep deep his name is this he has a wife he has yeah kids like you could literally just be like oh by the way like I have one other person I'm seeing now who is non-monogamous um I mean that's of course if you're speaking to another enum person but with this guy being monogamous I would definitely like sit him down and have a real ass conversation about like I think I'm non-monogamous and this is something I want to explore. And if that's not okay with you, then like I'm not willing to compromise. So I think this would, that would kind of be our relationship, you know?
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with that completely.
Setting Boundaries and Agreements
00:10:27
Speaker
All right. So this person said, new to E&M, dating for two months, and I don't know what is okay or not. I, 35 female, am very new to E&M and have no real experience yet.
00:10:39
Speaker
Although I've been interested in exploring this lifestyle for about three years. I recently started dating a guy, 35 male, who's been discovering E&M and m for about a year. After a month of dating, we agreed that flirting and making out with other people is okay for now, and that sleeping with someone else is also fine, as long as we tell each other.
00:10:58
Speaker
Though we haven't yet decided whether that should be before or after it happens. I told him that I'm not comfortable developing new meaningful relationships at this stage and he agreed. My questions are, is it too soon to set this kind of boundary after only one month of dating? I feel that I rushed him in this.
00:11:16
Speaker
Do people usually mention every time they kiss someone else? When it comes to sleeping with someone, do you normally talk about it before it happens or after? I'm very insecure in trying to break through the monogamous mold. And finally, when do people typically feel ready to start dating someone new while they're still getting to know a new partner?
00:11:34
Speaker
What's the appropriate delay? What should I expect if he's in trust in dating other people? I think, you know, the thing about what is a normal timeline has a lot to do with how you and your partner feel in particular.
00:11:50
Speaker
um i can speak from my personal experience where i didn't, I think that's kind of the thing that's a little bit sticky here is you can't really I don't know. do you think it's quite ethical to like ask your partner, like can you not date other people right now?
00:12:07
Speaker
what's Yeah. so there's a difference between um boundaries, rules, and agreements um that a lot of people aren't aware of. like Boundaries has become like such a popular yeah you know therapy term, yeah but people don't really have an understanding of what that is. right And so boundaries are what you are willing to do or not do, right? So for example, for this person, um for myself, I have a boundary that if you have sex with someone else, then I don't want to have sex with you until you have um a negative STI result, something like that, and right? So you're saying what you will or won't do in response to them, but you're not telling them
00:12:53
Speaker
you can sleep with someone or you can't sleep with someone. yeah A rule is when you try to control what your partner's doing, right? Like you cannot sleep with other people. um And so what I like to move people towards is making agreements. So saying like, hey, you know what? Since we're new to this, I think I would feel more secure if we waited a little bit longer before we dated other people. And then your partner can say,
00:13:19
Speaker
okay, yeah, I'm totally cool with that. Or they can say, you know what? Like, that's not something I'm okay with, right? And there you can either negotiate or you can decide um that it's not the relationship for you, right? so it's not necessarily that there's any like normal timeline that things happen on. Yeah. It's more so what your comfort level is. And I think also when it comes to like the inclination to create certain rules around what your partner can or can't do, um not that it's necessarily wrong to say, hey, I don't want you to sleep with other people.
00:13:56
Speaker
But i really like to push people to examine a little bit more like where is that coming from? and As opposed to just automatically saying like this is a rule that we have in our relationship, right? Like is it coming from jealousy, insecurity, right? And if you really can just take a moment to sit with that, it will teach you a lot about maybe something you need to work on within yourself or something that your relationship needs before you can feel comfortable like moving on to that next level.
00:14:26
Speaker
um So I guess that doesn't really like answer that person's question in a straightforward way. But that's the difficult thing about it is there really isn't like a normal right. It's more so um that you're communicating super clearly, everyone's on the same page, and the reality that if you want different things out of this dynamic, um it may not be the right relationship dynamic for you.
00:14:51
Speaker
i totally agree. i think, you know, again, getting back to the idea of like, what is normal? um Like speaking from my own experience, when dating someone new I kind of like to...
00:15:05
Speaker
not seek out another new relationship right away because there is so much to figure out in the early stages about like what will this dynamic be like what are we comfortable with um and again like nicole said if it's something like it's an agreement like both you guys wholeheartedly are like i don't have the capacity to date someone new right now i'm not even going to seek it out I think that's totally fine as long as you aren't pushing him to it.
00:15:35
Speaker
So but like Nicole said, I think if this agreement is coming from a place of I feel really insecure about you finding someone new and like leaving me.
00:15:47
Speaker
that's something to unpack um before you like go full in on this agreement versus I think if it's coming from a place of like, yeah, i don't want to, you know, take on more than I can handle and then end up leaving this partner, not having their needs met because now I'm dating so many new people that it's like overwhelming.
00:16:10
Speaker
um And the other thing too about, know, You know, mentioning every time you kiss someone, every time you have sex with someone. I think, you know, I personally practice kitchen table poly. So for me, it's more normal to just kind of have organic, natural conversations about it.
00:16:29
Speaker
But again, this is with people who have been dating much longer. So yeah, I don't necessarily have to ask like, oh, did you play with this person in a way where I'm interrogating you and
Managing Expectations in Intimacy
00:16:40
Speaker
I need to know. But it'll tend to come up naturally in conversation of like, oh, how was your date?
00:16:45
Speaker
Oh, and super well. um We did this. We played a little. we did this. um But I think it's about like, right, what would make you comfortable if.
00:16:56
Speaker
not knowing at all whether they play or not on a date works for you, that can be what works for you guys. um But i again, with like what we were referencing with if it's coming from insecurity, that is a cue then. That is your brain cuing you that you need to unpack something. Because if you need to know about Did they kiss? Did they play every single time it happens?
00:17:24
Speaker
And if you need to know before it even happens, that could be your body just cuing you that, oh this makes me feel really bad.
00:17:34
Speaker
Oh, I want control. oh why am I seeking out control? Oh, it's because I'm feeling insecure that their sex is going be better than ours or whatever.
00:17:45
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with that. I think going back to what we talked about earlier with the informed consent aspect of it, right? If you're playing with partners and you're doing sexual things where that's going to impact your other partner's sexual health, like that should be communicated.
00:18:03
Speaker
um But I think it's really hard to say communicate something before it happens because you don't necessarily know whether or not it's going to happen. You could say, oh I definitely don't want to play tonight or I definitely do want to play tonight. But once you're in this scenario, so many things could change that. um So it's I think having this agreement about saying before it happens that you're going to do it is really difficult, especially because how do you know that that other person is going to want to do it? Right. Like that gets you into some like sticky areas with consent, I think, as well.
00:18:40
Speaker
Totally. i agree. i think the before thing is just like, it's pretty hard to like foretell if something is for sure going to happen. I think it would be fair like, oh, you know, is this somebody where you may be interested in playing with them that you're seeing tonight?
00:19:00
Speaker
And they can communicate like, oh yeah, this is somebody like I would be interested or no, this is just more of a platonic thing. um But yeah, I think the whole prediction, it's kind of sets you up for expectations not being met because, you know, what if somebody doesn't have a chance to literally stop in the moment and call you and like let you know? Yes.
Closing and Contact Information
00:19:25
Speaker
Awesome. All right. Well, this has been a great time going through these Reddit posts. so you know, thank you again, Nicole, for all your insight. um And I will make sure to tag Nicole's info and the description if you guys ever want some helpful advice from this coach. Yes. Thanks so much for having me.
00:19:48
Speaker
Great. See you next time.