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ENM Mistakes That Aren't Often Talked About
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On this week's episode we're covering some common ENM mistakes that partners make that aren't often talked about. We have guest Ashley on to discuss these mistakes and give helpful advice on ENM.
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Transcript
Introduction to Ethical Non-Monogamy (E&M)
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the Fun with Sex podcast. I'm your host, Natalie, and today I'm going to be talking about E&M and more specifically, what are some common mistakes I see in non-monogamy that can kind of lead to more of an unethical dynamic.
00:00:21
Speaker
So today i have my guest, Ashley, who will be joining us to discuss this topic. Do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself, Ashley? ah Yes. Hello, my name is Ashley. um I've been E&M for some five years.
00:00:38
Speaker
um I grew up in a very religious and conservative household, um My husband and got married about 15 years ago, um and it was kind of a long journey for both of us to kind of grow away from the way of thinking we were raised with to become um E&M today.
00:01:00
Speaker
um So we got into E&M. I'm a pole dancer. i worked as a stripper when I was living in Scotland and that was kind of the avenue for us to get into E&M.
00:01:14
Speaker
So um yeah, very happy to share anything from my experience that would be relevant or helpful.
Learning from Mistakes in E&M
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. Similar to us, me and my partner came from you know, more of a traditional background where I just didn't grow up with any E&M examples in my life.
00:01:34
Speaker
So it really is all learning experience. And even today, as we go through these things, you may think like, oh, no, I do that. Or i did that in the beginning. Should I feel bad? And there's really no shame in making mistakes whatsoever, because we really all do.
00:01:51
Speaker
Nobody Very few people grow up with a lot of em m influence in their life. so it's all really a learning experience, figuring it out on your own, because sadly we are in such a monogamous, normative society.
Setting Healthy Boundaries in E&M
00:02:06
Speaker
So that's why today's episode is important, you know, just having open dialogue about, you know, what are some things we may gravitate towards that aren't always the best to do and kind what you can do instead and that sort of thing.
00:02:22
Speaker
So without further ado, we'll get into our first topic, which is everybody's favorite topic to talk about with E&M, and that is boundaries.
00:02:33
Speaker
Now, boundaries, of course, are very important to have. They're very necessary. And boundaries in itself are a very, very good thing when it comes to E&M.
00:02:45
Speaker
They are in place to protect your physical, mental, and emotional well-being. um But that's really the key here when it comes to what is a healthy boundary and what is an unhealthy boundary.
00:02:58
Speaker
Because I think sometimes, you know, especially today where a lot of therapy speak is kind of being misappropriated online. i think a lot of people think that just because hu because something is a boundary, that means it's totally okay because you said it's a boundary.
00:03:16
Speaker
But the reality of the situation is a boundary is something you put in place to protect yourself. So when a boundary or what you want to be a boundary isn't coming from that place of trying to protect and is rather coming from a place of fear or trying to exert control or trying to basically avoid having a negative emotion that may be unavoidable, that's when, you know, things get a little sticky and you may end up in not so healthy situation with your partner.
00:03:54
Speaker
So, for example, a healthy boundary would be something like, you know, after you play with someone, can you please clean the toys? That makes total sense. You're protecting your physical health so you don't accidentally use a toy that hasn't been cleaned yet.
00:04:12
Speaker
Versus an unhealthy boundary would be something that isn't necessarily protecting your well-being and it is going it's not really a scenario that directly affects you and therefore you may end up hurting someone else so something like you know i don't want you to cuddle after you play with other partners Well, what is that really protecting there besides your own emotions that you would feel, perhaps negative emotions, when it comes to picturing your partner having intimacy with another person in that way?
00:04:51
Speaker
um And then in that scenario, too, you're probably going to end up hurting your partner and your meta because... Not being able to give and receive aftercare is a really difficult thing for a lot of people to go through.
00:05:04
Speaker
So what when it comes to examples of what unhealthy boundaries are, what are some examples you could give us Ashley? Ashley?
00:05:16
Speaker
um Just speaking from my own personal experience, um kind of in the beginning of the E&M for me and my husband, John, um wo i guess I was faced with situations that I'd never dealt with before and some emotions that I was surprised by.
00:05:35
Speaker
So he went out with a female friend. I was going to bed early and I was like, it's totally okay for you to go out. But then when they were away, I started to feel a lot of um distress and fear and hadn't really examined these emotions before.
Evaluating Boundaries and Personal Experiences
00:05:53
Speaker
um But I think I realized in hindsight that it was it wouldn't be fair for me to say, know, you can't do this. You can't go out with a female friend when I'm otherwise, you know, doing something else.
00:06:10
Speaker
um I think in my own experience, I've had partners who were not really that comfortable with the fact that I was married or had a long-term relationship. And they were like, it's okay for you to be intimate with your husband because, you know, you're married and you have this long-term relationship, but I don't want you to be, to date anyone else.
00:06:33
Speaker
So it's like just us and him. And also situations where they kind of want to pretend that he didn't exist, um didn't want to talk about him. I felt uncomfortable talking about him with them, even though he was kind of he is a big part of my life.
00:06:52
Speaker
So i think in situations like this, as you mentioned, there are a lot of emotions that can come up that maybe are distressing, but to kind of get to why am I feeling this? What's underneath the emotion?
00:07:06
Speaker
Whether it's fear or low self-esteem or i'm worried you're going to leave me for this other person or whatever else it might be. Yeah, I think that's such a good piece of advice is, you know, we talk about this a lot on our social media and on the podcast is this idea of really digging into what is the deeper fear and emotion.
00:07:30
Speaker
um That's a big thing with jealousy. So the example we used earlier, you don't want your partner to have the intimate moment of cuddling with someone else.
00:07:41
Speaker
what's really going on here. It's not that that is going to directly harm you in any way, but rather what is the deeper fear that's coming up when you envision your partner cuddling with someone else? Is it that you fear through these intimate moments they may end up liking them better? Is it that you fear their relationship will become more serious?
00:08:05
Speaker
And what's really going on there with that that is causing such a negative reaction? And yeah I can speak from my experience too.
Understanding Metadynamics in E&M
00:08:14
Speaker
um I think like a big thing when you're trying to figure out boundaries as well is how realistic and reasonable is it? Because that was one I had when literally me and my partner had just opened up our relationship and decided to start playing with other people.
00:08:34
Speaker
We literally had no idea what E&M was. um We just kind of knew, or at least I knew in the beginning, um but I would like to continue You know, maybe sleeping with other people, going on dates, that sort of thing.
00:08:51
Speaker
um And like one of my boundaries that I thought made sense without, like I said, even understanding E&M or that there's a way to do this very ethically was you know, i thought it made sense of, oh, if you're away and you decide to impulsively sleep with someone, can you just give me a call and let me know?
00:09:17
Speaker
And again, that made perfect sense in my brain at the time. But how real realistic is that really? When you're in the heat of the moment, just kind of met someone, yeah getting to know them, and then you're going home to stop and give your partner a phone call.
00:09:34
Speaker
and what is that really protecting yeah you know because you know we're kitchen table poly he's gonna inform me of it it's not like he's hiding it he'll inform me as soon as as he has a moment um but what was it really protecting probably just my fear of not knowing what's going on um even though there's really no basis for that, you know?
00:09:59
Speaker
So yeah, it's all learning experience. um But yeah, getting into our next topic. So i think one of the biggest struggles people have with E&M is metadynamics and how to handle those.
00:10:17
Speaker
You know, i think the toxic pop culture idea of E&M is that we all just have these terrible or jealous or awkward relationships with metas.
00:10:29
Speaker
And I definitely don't want to perpetuate that idea because it really is not that way. And most people I know E&M have very good relationships with their metas.
00:10:45
Speaker
um But on the flip side of that, a lot of people do sadly get into situations where they have negative relationships or even a less severe situation where they just don't have super positive opinions of each other.
Navigating Opinions and Communication
00:11:01
Speaker
And I feel like one of the ways this tends to trickle into relationships is when it comes to the concept of being overly opinionated. um Now, you may envision this in an extreme way of people who just lash out and say,
00:11:19
Speaker
oh, I don't like them, they're X, Y, and Z, they're not a good person, um which may be true. Or it may just be that someone's feeling jealous, someone's feeling negative, or it's just the type of person you don't get along with.
00:11:36
Speaker
um But then there's a lot of smaller cases too, where people are simply just commenting little negative opinions here or there, like, oh, you know, I think it kind of naturally comes up because I think, you know, when you're in the privacy with your partner, I think we got into dynamics. We're sharing little opinions about other people or opinions on an event or what happened that day is a pretty typical thing of like, oh, you know, this co-worker said this today. It was kind of a weird joke or something like that.
00:12:12
Speaker
um So I think people kind of naturally fall into that boat where they think they can just openly share those negative opinions of the meta with their partner. um But in the end, it just kind of ends up building up over time and it can lead to the hinge partner really getting stressed out, thinking that there's a very negative relationship between their two partners or worst case scenario, which I wouldn't recommend doing as the hinge is actually stressful.
00:12:41
Speaker
telling their partner and then in turn kind of making things even more difficult between the two of them. So Ashley, what would you say are some opinions that just shouldn't be given to your partner about your meta?
00:12:57
Speaker
I think sometimes in poly relationships, you'll find that your partner is um has a very different relationship dynamic with the meta than with you, or it brings out other aspects of their personality that maybe you didn't know were there or are surprised by at the very least.
00:13:18
Speaker
And I think kind of like we talk you touched on before, if those things don't directly affect you, particularly in a negative way, that it's probably best to keep those opinions to yourself. Like, I'll i'll use an example.
00:13:36
Speaker
um my partner and i had a house party and um my other partner was there in the same room and we were kind of all just chatting and afterwards I asked um my husband, what did you think about my partner? was the first time that they had met and he was like, well, he didn't seem all that interesting to me or didn't really have a lot to say or I'm not really sure why you're into this person I kind of nettled me I guess you would say because I'm like you don't you don't know him the same way I do or you don't see us when we're together so um and you know I think I'm certainly guilty of this as well like and if my partner my meta or is it their meta or my meta I know it's so confusing with all the partners metas everything yeah yeah but anyway like if if I don't particularly like the way that they're interacting or if I
00:14:35
Speaker
have felt excluded whether or not they were actually excluding me that I should have probably kept that to myself and processed it before bringing it up and having an argument about it yeah totally because even when it's like You know, like you said, the key thing is, does it affect you?
00:15:00
Speaker
So if it's something like, hey you're my nesting partner, can you just make sure that after your other partner visits, any dirty dishes are kind of like picked up after so I don't have to deal with that?
00:15:14
Speaker
That makes total sense to point that out because that affects you. That's your home. Those are your dishes versus just like, oh they have a really strange sense of humor. Because like you said, you know, surprisingly, we're all such unique people that we can be dating vastly different people and still have that compatibility with both of them. So something to you that may be a little strange or off or something you dislike.
00:15:45
Speaker
could be one of the things they like about them. And that's totally okay. You know, i think I always like to compare polyamory to friendships because it's a really good way for me to kind of pull away from the emotions of a romantic relationship and really consider what's going on here on a deeper level.
00:16:07
Speaker
You know, i have plenty of friends who have plenty of friends where i I don't see the bestie vibe that they see in them.
00:16:18
Speaker
And that's totally okay. Like, these are just people I'm going to be interacting with from time to time, but I don't have to be their best friend by any means just because they're one of my close friends, close friends.
00:16:31
Speaker
But with all that being said, Ashley, would you say there are any scenarios where you do think it's acceptable to give negative feedback about a meta to a partner?
00:16:44
Speaker
I think that if a partner asks for your opinion, like maybe it's a new relationship and they're still kind of feeling out the person, the compatibility, and they're like, you saw us interact. What did you think about that? or what did you think about that person's action in that situation?
00:17:05
Speaker
Or on the other hand, even if they didn't necessarily ask for your opinion, if you're concerned for your partner's well-being and you think there's abuse in an extreme, or perhaps they're just taking advantage of your partner or not treating them with the respect that they deserve. Sometimes your partner can be, because of the emotions involved, they might not see it clearly.
00:17:30
Speaker
And I guess you have to exercise some discernment, like, do I speak up or do I keep this to myself? But if If the situation arises and you think it's appropriate to say, i think your partner is not treating you very well or there's an unhealthy dynamic, it might be appropriate to speak up.
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. Because there are potentially, you know, I've definitely learned there are certain things I may spot as a red flag, but if it's not the level of, like you said, abuse, I and may speak on it in a very tactful way, especially if my opinion is asked if this information is brought to me to confide in me, and I'm like,
00:18:15
Speaker
oh, okay, you know, I will speak on this in a tactful way and give my opinion if this information is being brought to me. um But at the same time, I always try to be very courteous with how I speak on things. Definitely not um just...
00:18:33
Speaker
just very tactful and gentle about things because again with romantic dynamics there's just so many deep emotions attached to things um and i think that's something you got more comfortable with the more you do e and m and polyamory as well and you got more used to it is just kind of not attaching as many emotions to your partner's relationships unless, like you said, they are truly being mistreated.
00:19:04
Speaker
um But really just kind of viewing it as a separate entity that you are aware of and you know things about, but you aren't directly involved in and are not a decision maker in.
Gendered Rules and Bisexuality in E&M
00:19:17
Speaker
um And we've kind of touched on this idea of speaking in between metas and between partners and what that should and shouldn't look like.
00:19:29
Speaker
um But I'd love to talk about another specific example I see a lot, which I like to call the game of telephone. um a common mistake I see people make is...
00:19:43
Speaker
A hinge partner is discussing negative opinions that their partners have and going back and forth telling partners, well, they said this, they said that, and just constantly filling that gap.
00:20:00
Speaker
um There is a situation where if these concerns are very valid and serious, perhaps we can sit down as a group so there's not a game of telephone.
00:20:13
Speaker
But I think where the kind of red flag version of this that can be easily prevented and does not involve necessarily a severe situation where actual hurtful things have been done between each other is this idea that the hinge partner is kind of hearing these little negative opinions of like, oh, I don't like this about them, or I think this is strange, or I think this is weird.
00:20:41
Speaker
And the hinge is just going back and forth telling each partner these negative opinions they have of each other and it ends up creating such an unhealthy dynamic and the dislike between the metas will just keep growing and growing um because I do think that as a hinge you have to understand you cannot be sharing every little negative comment your partner makes to the other partner.
00:21:09
Speaker
not as like That that's, you know, one of my firm boundaries is I'm not going to share dirty details between relationships. If it's something super lighthearted and silly, or if it's something nice, like, oh, you know, they complimented this about you.
00:21:26
Speaker
that's great. That's such a feel good moment. I met a complimented me. But if it's just something like, Oh, yeah, they said that like they thought it was weird you did this.
00:21:37
Speaker
Now that person is going like, oh, should I feel insecure about this? Should I feel insecure around them? Do they really think that of me? Do they not like me?
00:21:48
Speaker
um And it just kind of grows and grows and escalates and escalates. And things are just being shared between the two of them that I think shouldn't necessarily be shared. And you could avoid a lot of hurt.
00:22:01
Speaker
And by not doing so, you can kind of allow the two partners to interact on their own terms and interact at different events and meetups and get to know each other better before kind of throwing that match on the gasoline.
00:22:17
Speaker
So Ashley, how would you say a hinge should handle little continuous complaints between partners without ending up in an endless game of telephone where everybody hates each other?
00:22:31
Speaker
um i would agree with you 100% that um if if these two people have an actual problem with each other, it's best that they talk face to face to kind of hash it out. But I think just like the game game of telephone, things can get distorted, you know, when they go from one person to another. And if your partner tells you something in confidence, that it's not really appropriate to share it with anyone else unless there's a really pressing reason, like someone's well-being is at stake.
00:23:07
Speaker
So I think you know These kinds of conflicts can come up, but I think the less pettiness there is in the whole dynamic, um more looking out for each other's well-being and respecting that the nature of the relationships is different.
00:23:26
Speaker
So the metas are going to have probably a very different relationship with each other than the hinge partner has with either of them. Yes, 100%. I think there are scenarios where, you know, if it's a situation where your Metta or your partner comes to you and says like, hey, can we put this boundary in place? This is how I'm feeling. And you feel it's a valid, fair boundary. That's appropriate to go to your partner and say like, hey, so-and-so felt this way. We're going to put this boundary in place. Very different than...
00:24:03
Speaker
you know, just flat out telling your partner, like, yeah, my other partner says they don't like that you do this. um It just kind of adds fuel to the fire and creates a really negative dna dynamic.
00:24:19
Speaker
um But yeah, so no games of telephone. But another really common thing boundary that I see people have that, you know, i think it's a bit of a controversial one.
00:24:34
Speaker
And i think there is some subjectivity and a gray zone here, but it's probably one of the most common ones I see. I see it in swinger communities. I see it with E&M m people. i see it with polyamorous people.
00:24:49
Speaker
And it is having gendered rules surrounding who someone can date or sleep with. um It's especially common whether both parties are bisexual or one is bisexual, one is straight.
00:25:05
Speaker
You'll often see people have these boundaries of you can do whatever with
Hierarchical vs. Non-Hierarchical Polyamory
00:25:11
Speaker
the same gender, but other genders are off the table or people who are the same gender as me are off the table.
00:25:20
Speaker
and again, with what we're talking about with boundaries is you have to ask yourself, Where is this coming from? Is it coming from a place of, oh, I feel insecure because if I'm a man and they date that's my competition. They're the most closest to me So I feel more comfortable ah they only date femmes and non-binary people because they're so different than me that I won't have to deal with directly comparing myself to them.
00:25:54
Speaker
um And what can end up happening is, you know, on one hand, the party who is having this boundary placed on them can end up feeling that it isn't equitable.
00:26:09
Speaker
um Even if it is, both parties are bisexual and have the same boundary, that may seem equitable. But bisexuality is pretty fluid where people may have different preferences and somebody may feel like,
00:26:24
Speaker
man, I don't get date my preferred gender. It can also be very invalidating of people's bisexuality. That was something I appreciated about my partner when we first started dating is You know, of course, there was different feelings surrounding me dating masked people versus feminine, non-binary people.
00:26:48
Speaker
But that boundary was never placed on me, which I appreciated because as a bi person, i you know, I've been on the other end of it where I've been the bi girl who was kind of the experiment of like, oh, well, my boyfriend said I could do whatever with other girls, but we're not E&M.
00:27:09
Speaker
And it's just kind of like, oh, so do you not see this as real sex? Like, what's going on here? um So yeah, Ashley, in what ways would you say this can be problematic?
00:27:24
Speaker
And are there any ways in which it cannot be problematic? um So I personally have, ah like you, I have a partner who's very open to me being with mask, femme, everything in between.
00:27:41
Speaker
um So I don't have personal experience of being in a situation where my partner was like, I'm not okay with you dating someone same gender as me. um I think, again, this kind of comes up again and again, trying to dig underneath, like, where is this discomfort coming from?
00:28:00
Speaker
Like, does is my partner afraid that I'm going to abandon them for this other person? Is it like they, maybe they have low self-esteem and they feel like in comparison to someone else, they're always going to lose.
00:28:13
Speaker
or that I'm always going to prefer someone else to them if I have, you know, the option. So... I think there's also a sense in which we have to be patient, ah particularly if there's a couple that's newer to the E&M and m dynamic, and there's a desire for both on the part of both parties that I want i don't want to be jealous, I don't want to be possessive, but I also have these real emotions that are distressing. Can we kind of gradually ease our way into this?
00:28:46
Speaker
And I think if they're being honest about that, that they do have a true desire, you know, to give their partner total freedom, but they're still working through whatever negative emotions or trauma responses that we have patients kind of with each other with that.
00:29:05
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. i think for a lot of people, this is definitely something they put in place early on. And I think when you have the understanding of like, this is a stepping stone, i think I totally get that.
00:29:19
Speaker
um I've also had people where, again, as a mutually agreed upon boundary, they've put in place because, you know, it's typically the partner who's a woman has a lot of trauma with like cis men so it's just kind of I i don't want to be with any cis men besides my one cis man partner and I totally get that um because there's also solo poly people that have that boundary so that's totally I understand that um and like you said I think as long as you and your partner have
00:29:58
Speaker
clear communication as to why you're doing it and there's nothing kind of boiling under the surface as to somebody feeling that they're in an unequitable arrangement.
00:30:09
Speaker
I think, you know, I totally get that. um But getting into our next topic. So,
Balancing Time and Needs in Polyamory
00:30:17
Speaker
you know, there's so much debate when it comes to E&M m about hierarchical polyamory versus non-hierarchical.
00:30:25
Speaker
um And the way I feel about it is i think realistically people are going to keep having hierarchical dynamics. Yeah. I think for some people, it's very hard for them to avoid having somewhat of a hierarchy.
00:30:41
Speaker
i mean, there's some couples out there where it's like, I've been with one partner for 15 years and we have kids together and we're married and we're life partners. So it's very hard for them to compare that to a partner who they just met.
00:30:57
Speaker
And i think I can understand why people do view things in more of a hierarchical way. um But I think like the vocabulary of it is interesting, hierarchical, primary, secondary.
00:31:13
Speaker
um It feels like those were just kind of the terms that were coined and are super popular. But not all hierarchical people view it that way, right? They don't view it as I'm putting one partner above my other partners.
00:31:28
Speaker
um So I think there is a way to go about having a hierarchical dynamic that isn't super problematic or hurtful or going going to harm your partners.
00:31:41
Speaker
But there also is a way to go about it where people kind of use the guise of a hierarchical dynamic to say, well, I don't have to do X, Y, and z or I don't have to fulfill your emotional needs, or I don't have to do this because you're a secondary partner.
00:31:59
Speaker
So Ashley, what would you say are some unethical things that would be imposed in a hierarchical dynamic?
00:32:09
Speaker
Well, I think it would be helpful to talk about the term hierarchy itself, like what exactly... we mean by that. So one of the things that I find beautiful about polyamory is this concept that love is an unlimited resource.
00:32:26
Speaker
So we assume this when it comes to friends or children, like I can have multiple friends and love them all equally, or I can have multiple children and love them all equally. But when it comes to romantic partners, kind of the mononormative culture says, no, you can't do that.
00:32:41
Speaker
But I think we we kind of question, oh I could have romantic love for more than one person. So I don't necessarily think it's like I love this partner more than this one.
00:32:53
Speaker
But when it comes to other things like our time or our emotional energy, let's say you have a nesting partner, it's kind of inevitable you're going to spend more time with them because you share a home with them. so you're going to wake up with them every morning, go to sleep with them every night. So i think if you're in a situation where your non-nesting partner feels like you're spending a lot more time with your nesting partner and they feel neglected, you kind of acknowledge you know what they're feeling and say, is there another way I can show you how meaningful you are that's
00:33:30
Speaker
not me spending like an equal number of hours with you every week or something like that. Because I think there are other ways to show that valuing of another person.
00:33:42
Speaker
But totally agree with you that you don't want to use it as an excuse like your needs are less important to me, I'm not going to make the effort just because you're not my nesting partner or I haven't been with you for as long as this other person.
00:33:58
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. I think a really good rule of thumb to use in these situations, whether you're hierarchical or non-hierarchical, is what are the needs and how can I fulfill these needs?
00:34:12
Speaker
So I'm in that situation where I have a partner I live with. who I've been with longer, i own a business with, and then i have a partner who's newer.
00:34:23
Speaker
So, you know, if I were to be the super hierarchical person, then it would seem like one partner just gets all my time and attention and the other person just kind of gets what's left over.
00:34:38
Speaker
But we really view things about you know, how can I prioriti prioritize you in ways where I'm fulfilling your needs? It may not look the exact same.
00:34:48
Speaker
I mean, i live in this home and I pay rent in this home. So I'm typically here most nights of the week. So it's not going to look the exact same. I'm not going to be living with you and sleeping with you in the same bed every single night.
00:35:03
Speaker
But there's definitely things we can put into place that can make it feel like we're cohabitating more that can ensure we're getting different types of quality time besides just going out on dates, also having time at home to relax and be in each other's company and do a lot of the day-to-day stuff that you may do if you're living together, like cooking and grocery shopping and doing chores and stuff like that.
00:35:30
Speaker
So there's definitely workarounds. Um, And I think, you know, not viewing it in that all or nothing mindset of like, oh, just because we don't have X, Y, and Z in this relationship doesn't mean you can't fulfill their needs in other ways.
00:35:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, i think that the relationship escalator that's part of the mononormative world doesn't apply that well in polyamorous because it's not like we're dating and we get serious and we move in together and we have kids together and we buy a house together because you might only do that with one partner you might not do that with any partners but it doesn't mean that this other relationship is not also very important in your life so kind of exactly and metric for commitment and and affection
00:36:26
Speaker
Exactly. Like in polyamory, commitment looks a lot different than it does in the mononormative and often hetero world where we're just on a timeline to get engaged, get married, have kids, move in together.
00:36:43
Speaker
um so things look very different. But, you know, i think that's what's exciting about it, too, is that commitment to each other isn't on a timeline. Yeah. and ways to show love and commitment doesn't come out of a rule book. We can get creative and we can figure out ways to, like you said, spread the love, endless amounts of love. So that's what's really beautiful about it.
00:37:10
Speaker
All right. Well, I think we've covered everything we need to cover today. So this has been the Fun With Sex podcast, and we'll see you next time. Thank you.