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Dating and Sex While Neurodivergent (Part 2 )
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On this episode we cover emotional processing, sensory processing, and rejection sensitivity as it relates to sex and dating.
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Transcript
Self-Reflection Through Advice
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to part two of dating and sex while neurodivergent. Exactly. I find just like, I don't know if you experienced this on your show, but I talking about other people's issues, particularly when they're similar to mine, sometimes I'll be having a really rough day. I'll do the show and I'll like give somebody advice for something they wrote in and then I come out of it and I'm like,
00:00:27
Speaker
Why am I not? to why am i This person is describing a situation similar to what I'm in. And I'm telling them, I'm speaking kindly to them and encouraging. Why am i telling myself that like I'm a failure or whatever? it It kind of snaps me out of that like negative self-talk thing when you externalize it like that.
00:00:49
Speaker
So yeah, I love that just as an exercise of like a friend has come to me with this thing that I'm feeling, what would I say to them? um very, very useful.
00:01:01
Speaker
Don't be mean to yourself. That's really like the key. yeah Like it's hard enough to deal with this shit as it is. Don't add the additional layer of like shitting on yourself about it. Why would you do that? Exactly.
00:01:14
Speaker
It's only going to make it worse.
Sensory Processing in Intimacy
00:01:17
Speaker
All right. So getting into our next topic, sensory processing. um We kind of touched on this briefly.
00:01:25
Speaker
Like, An example I'll use of how I was like trying to describe how sometimes things can be overstimulating to me and it really depends on the moment as well.
00:01:38
Speaker
Like. I don't know if you get this with your stuff, but sometimes it's like a touch just doesn't feel right. Sometimes a touch feels good. Other times my partner will like touch me and I'm like, I don't know why I just can't, I can't be touched right now.
00:01:55
Speaker
Um, and I think it becomes very difficult in the bedroom because I also do group play as well. So I've had so many times where like,
00:02:06
Speaker
there are noises going on and I just can't focus on what's actually happening. Um, but then of course it's like such an interesting thing cause I'm into kink as well. And I feel like kink helps me focus on the moment cause it's like such an intense stimulation and you could just focus on that.
00:02:29
Speaker
um So how has like sensory processing been for you in the bedroom? And do you have any advice on dealing with different sensory processing? I have a similar thing to that where like intensity can be calming and like focusing for me in some contexts, but it can also be like overwhelming and like full on debilitating in other contexts. Like,
00:02:57
Speaker
I'll have times maybe once every couple months. Like I'm a pretty social person. Like I make a lot of friends. i'm good at chatting with people. I like socializing. But on like the bad, really sensitive days, I could be like in a restaurant and all of the conversations going on, it which is all the noise around me.
00:03:16
Speaker
becomes like physically unpleasant like it i get overwhelmed it just it feels like uh there's so much coming in that i can't make sense of it and i kind of freak out and i you know have to have to get out of that place not like freak out visibly but internally like you're just trying to have a conversation and i just freeze up because there's there's too much stimulus happening um it's kind of the same situation or The other side of this, though, when that's positive, um I could be at like a concert with like really loud, intense music and a big crowd.
00:03:54
Speaker
But like if it's music that I love and I'm in the right state, that can be really calming to me because it's like so much. so much signal coming in that it like overwhelms the negative self-talk or like the kind of ADHD thinking about worrying about other things. It like keeps me in the moment.
00:04:15
Speaker
And it's weird that it can go both directions like that and like very different extremes. And I, yeah, I have the same thing with, with sexuality and with touch generally. um I'm somebody who I don't like to be touched unexpectedly.
00:04:31
Speaker
Like if I'm just out and about and somebody like friendly slap on the shoulder or whatever, I will just straight up tell people like, don't do that. Don't do that. it It, I'll tense up. I immediately go into like a fight or flight thing.
00:04:46
Speaker
Definitely some trauma connected to all of this. Um, for me, I kind of, I need to know what's coming. I kind of need to anticipate the thing and then it can be good.
00:04:58
Speaker
Um, Because like, yeah, I'm also into kink and group stuff and all of this. But I needed to be in a situation where ah feel safe and comfortable. I think as most people with these things, that's like a good prerequisite to be doing any sexual thing right.
Healing in BDSM Practices
00:05:16
Speaker
um And I need to be in the right headspace for it. And if I am... And I also know like I've established clear boundaries with somebody else so that I'm not in the back of my head like, what should I do? Is it okay if I do this? Like I kind of need to know, establish ground rules with my partner initially so that I don't have to think about that stuff and I can stay in the moment.
00:05:45
Speaker
And then it's really good. Like when I'm comfortable with somebody and I know they want me to touch them and I don't want to be touched properly, then it's awesome. Then it is like you were describing, like the intensity of like doming somebody um has been like a really healing thing for me.
00:06:02
Speaker
i feel like that's been a part of building my self-esteem, um kind of like acclimating to intense situations, trusting myself,
00:06:13
Speaker
um being trusted by someone else and like feeling comfortable with that responsibility. It's been like a really, really good thing for me. And like we were talking about before, just BDSM generally, if you're doing this stuff in the right way, I appreciate that it is expected to establish ground rules and limits and safe words because that gives me like clear boundaries.
00:06:40
Speaker
And so I can let go of all of the... oh, what if they don't want me to do this thing? Oh, can I do this? Am I doing this right? Like all of that kind of like self-critical weird stuff and can just be in the moment and it makes my mind go very calm.
00:06:58
Speaker
I'm kind of just like in a flow with it. I feel similarly with like performing. um When I'm comfortable and I know what I can do and I'm not wasting brain power on bad spirally self-critical stuff.
00:07:15
Speaker
It's like a really good and healing thing. Cause then you come out of it and you're like, damn, I used to like have such bad anxiety that like struggled to be in like a room of people or like walking down the street and like, now I'm in this really intense sexual situation and it's good. And the other person is having a good time or the other people.
00:07:34
Speaker
And it makes me feel like very safe and empowered with that stuff. So yeah, so Just like coming back to navigating it, I think for me, it's just about having that opportunity to clearly communicate, this is how I work here, how somebody else works.
00:07:53
Speaker
um It's just really good because you don't get that in most social interactions. When you feel things really intensely, like just being in a loud room can be difficult and you don't get an opportunity to be like, hey, I can get overwhelmed when a lot of people are talking.
00:08:09
Speaker
you're not gonna have that conversation with everybody just going to a bar or whatever. That doesn't make any sense. Um, but in like a group play situation or a play party or whatever, where there is a lot more of that direct, clear, honest communication.
00:08:28
Speaker
it's really cool. It makes me like, it can kind of do things I, I would not or would not have been able to do,
00:08:37
Speaker
without like knowing that people are also in that space of being able to communicate directly. Yeah. That's what I love about the kink community too, is it's direct communication. It's clear communication and it's always about consent because i mean, that's like, again, with like unexpected touch, there's some people like,
00:09:03
Speaker
My partner, you know, back when we used to go to swinger clubs, something like a random person just, like, touching his arm or something like that isn't a big deal to him.
00:09:18
Speaker
But to me, it's all about, like, what am I expecting? What is the expectation? what is going to happen. I need to know like what is happening. Right. and of course, swinger and clubs were such a thing where I was like, Oh, I've been talking to this person for 20 minutes. They're super nice.
00:09:38
Speaker
And then they're like, Oh, you want to go in a room? And I'm like, Oh, okay. Oh, I didn't realize that's where this was going. now I need to process that. Um, but you know, with kink, with people who understand consent,
00:09:55
Speaker
You know, you can be like, hey, don't touch me here. Hey, don't do this. And knowing that those people are going to respect that and you're not going to be met with unwanted touch or something that you were not ah planning on doing is like a very, very big thing.
00:10:15
Speaker
Yeah. And you don't, you know, I don't know if you have any of this, but something I've kind of had to work through and still struggle with sometimes is feeling comfortable speaking up is feeling comfortable saying, i don't do this. I don't like this.
00:10:31
Speaker
I think when I was younger, maybe a people pleasing thing or something, again, probably from some trauma, I got a whole, like I was raised super Catholic. There's a lot of, yeah there's a lot of shit I've had to work through.
00:10:44
Speaker
ah But I think, you know, and ah I mean, I lost my virginity when I was 15. I was very sexually active, like as a teenager. And I had some pretty bad experiences because I just, I felt like, well, can't make it weird by saying I don't like this thing or I don't want you to do this thing, which very sad in retrospect, I feel bad for my younger self, but I've worked through this.
00:11:08
Speaker
um Just knowing that, Not only is it not weird to say, hey, don't do this, I don't like this, but people, at least good partners, people you want to be having sex with are going to appreciate that. Cause that makes it easier for them because they know what they can do.
00:11:27
Speaker
They can stay in the moment the way I was describing before. Um, and just having that experience of saying something like that, that would stress me out to bring up when I was younger and people being like, Oh yeah, no problem. um And being like, Oh wait, I'm normal. Actually, this is like a totally normal request to have.
00:11:45
Speaker
Um, That's been like a really, that's been a really good thing for me also. Just like to give myself the permission to be like, no, there's some things I don't like. And I can say that I would never give somebody else a hard time for it.
00:12:01
Speaker
Coming back to what we were talking about before with how you would talk to a friend. Why am i telling myself that there's something wrong with doing that when I would never tell somebody else that? Yeah, that's what's been um like so affirming and validating for me to see now hosting these events that are very focused on consent and communicating clearly and all of that because for the longest time i just felt like the odd man out where I was like I need to have so things a certain way, I need to have
00:12:35
Speaker
like everything being asked before it happens. I need to like have X, Y, and Z in order for me to feel comfortable enough to play and to interact and to do all that sexual stuff.
00:12:47
Speaker
um And it's like people in different circles make it seem like it's so hard when it's really not. Right.
00:13:00
Speaker
And I mean, I think just also if
Navigating Rejection Sensitivity
00:13:02
Speaker
you're, If I'm remembering this correctly, there's a concept in psychology of a highly sensitive person, and it's something that can be applied across different disorders. Sometimes just a trait of somebody, but just somebody who feels things more intensely than kind of what the baseline is.
00:13:21
Speaker
um Sex is like an emotionally and physically intense activity and kink stuff and all of this even even more so. um That...
00:13:33
Speaker
It can already be kind of a heightened on edge situation where maybe I could speak up if I was calm and say something, but if I'm feeling overwhelmed, I don't have the processing to do that. It's feeling like a little bit much.
00:13:48
Speaker
Again, just having that clear instruction to everybody to make sure that you do these things and everybody's expecting that people are going to say, hey I don't want to do certain things. You're going to set certain ground rules. That makes me...
00:14:02
Speaker
have to think less about doing that, if that makes sense, like it makes it easier to do in an already intense situation, then it would be if that expectation of establishing consent, like wasn't already there. It makes it like, I don't know, as easy as like asking somebody to like hand you something like it's no longer, how are they going to react?
00:14:26
Speaker
Is it weird to say this? Oh God, things are already heightened. I'm getting overwhelmed. It's just like, ah yeah, I'm just going to, everybody's do it. It's fine. I can, I can just speak up.
00:14:37
Speaker
Um, don't know if I articulated that clearly, but I i think you get the idea. Yes, totally. And I think that kind of leads us into our next topic, which is the idea of rejection sensitivity.
00:14:51
Speaker
um I think a lot of different, you know, it's big with ADHD, autism spectrum, borderline. um And really, like, those are just the top ones, but I feel like most neurodivergent people deal with this.
00:15:07
Speaker
Um, you know, it ties into a lot of what we were talking about earlier with that fear of abandonment. It's like, once you're dating someone, once you have feelings for someone, there's these very intense feelings of like, oh my God, what if they leave me?
00:15:23
Speaker
um and then it's tough. I feel like with dating and play as well, when you are neurodivergent, because it's hard to pick up on social cues. It's hard to pick up on the signs.
00:15:37
Speaker
It's hard to understand who is interested in you or not. and I think it can kind of leave you in certain situations where you're like, okay, I think this person is into me. And when that's not the case, it can feel a little bit like,
00:15:53
Speaker
oh, oh no, now I'm embarrassed that I totally misread this situation. When, like, that's not the reality. And I think having a deep understanding of consent is super helpful for that, of, you know, understanding that I'm allowed to like feel disappointed or have emotions, but I can't project that outwardly. i can have my own internal feelings.
00:16:20
Speaker
um So how do you feel like rejection sensitivity has come up for you? it's It's two things. For one is kind of like the standard. I struggled with self-esteem when I was younger. And, you know, particularly in
00:16:40
Speaker
relationships or like wanting to tell somebody I was into like asking somebody out on a date or whatever, when that wouldn't work out getting in the sense of like, Oh, I suck.
00:16:52
Speaker
Like I'm never going to find it, whatever. Like the standard, like devaluing self-talk stuff. And I've worked through that. Um, as it turns out you kind of just got to work on yourself get to the point where you love yourself and then stuff's easier because then you're you're not like this person doesn't like me therefore i suck it's this person doesn't like me therefore like i'm not for them they're and that's fine it's not like a value judgment it's just sometimes people aren't in you and that's why would everybody be into you what kind of world would that be that would be deranged um
00:17:26
Speaker
The other way, though, is, and this is coming back to, like, the people-pleasing kind of stuff or, like, the ah kind of like guilt, worry. Like, I, for a long time, and I still struggle with this sometimes, I don't want to make somebody else uncomfortable.
00:17:45
Speaker
I don't want to, like, shoot a shot unless I'm really, like, clear that they're into me, typically. Yeah. And that can be tough because it is, it's the same thing. Like if somebody says, Oh no, it doesn't mean that you've like upset them. It means that they're not into it. And if you go, all right. Then it's fine. Like that's a normal interaction, but I would struggle with being like, Oh, I probably made them feel weird. Cause I told them I was into them or whatever.
00:18:16
Speaker
And like being able to let go of that. Again, I think part of that, like just going to play parties for, the first time over the past couple of years, it's a similar thing where like it's expected.
00:18:28
Speaker
Like people are going to this or expecting that people are gonna ask, you know, if they wanna do something, express interest in all of this. That's expected and it's also expected and clear that you can say no and that that's fine.
00:18:43
Speaker
That makes me feel more comfortable because I'm like,
00:18:49
Speaker
i'm not being weird by like approaching this person and if they're not into it that's they know they can say no i'm not going to feel like i'm putting like a weird pressure on them or something um they can say no and i can say oh okay no no problem and like move on that's kind of gotten my confidence up a little bit more of just like you know as long as you're not, just don't be a fucking weird ass about it. You can, you can tell somebody you like them. You can like try, in my case, try to flirt with somebody. I'm not, I'm really not very good at it. Like we were saying before, I just have to be really direct with people.
00:19:28
Speaker
ah And as long as you are like respectful, ah then it's fine. And like, you got to take those chances. Otherwise you're, you know,
00:19:41
Speaker
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take or whatever the fuck. you know like Don't avoid expressing interest because you're like afraid of doing that.
00:19:53
Speaker
As long as you're doing that in like a respectful, clear way and they say no and you're going to be fine with it and you're not going to be fucking weird about it, that's all good. don't know. That just made it a little bit easier for me to not get so into
00:20:10
Speaker
oh, they're gonna if I say, hey, I think you're cool, do you want to, go out sometime, they're not going to be like, oh, this person's, like, a knight. This person's awful. This person's being so weird. Like, no, it's like a normal, it's fine.
00:20:23
Speaker
It's a little uncomfortable, but, like, all fucking dating stuff is a little bit, you know? Yeah, I'm very similar where, like, I get so nervous to make a move on someone and be like, hey, do you want to go out? Hey, do you want to play?
00:20:39
Speaker
Um, and maybe that's like my very submissive side too, where I'm just kind of like, how do I make a move? i don't know what to do. I can't really tell if this person is into me.
00:20:53
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I have a similar experience where I think being in E&M circles and doing group play and stuff like that, that's where i really appreciate the E&M community is there's not...
Relationship Dynamics: Monogamy vs E&M
00:21:10
Speaker
like, I feel like there's this weird pressure in monogamous circles where you're just supposed to give everyone a chance because we're all so desperate to get into relationship and go up the relationship escalator. So that was something i really had to unpack. And I think a lot of people raised as women to have to unpack it as well is this idea of like,
00:21:36
Speaker
were socialized that you're supposed to give everyone a chance. I was actually on a date with someone once and it was not a good date, but he said like, oh I don't understand why my partner can't decide who she wants to play with.
00:21:55
Speaker
And I was like, well, when we're kind of socialized that you're just supposed to give everyone a chance, it can be very difficult in those situations to process. Like, cause this person had ADHD as well. Like, am I into this person? Do I want to play? What do I actually want to do And E&M it's made me more comfortable with just being like, no, I'm not interested right now.
00:22:21
Speaker
And it's also made me more comfortable with like, If it's not a big deal for me to say no, then it's not a big deal for someone else to say no. So feeling more comfortable just, like, shooting your shot. And if it doesn't work out, it's really no skill off your back. And, yeah. just keep You just keep on rolling.
00:22:44
Speaker
But feel good about, like, having the confidence and, you know, getting your communication abilities to the point where you can do that. without it being like a weird thing, you know?
00:22:57
Speaker
hu All right. So I think we've hit all our topics. um Overall, accept yourself, love yourself, work with what your brain is doing and try figure out tools, try and figure out treatment and ways to live in this neurotypical world while also taking care of yourself.
00:23:24
Speaker
Damn. And I mean, the trade-off, it's not all fucking negatives. Like the hypersensitivity stuff, when sex is really good, it's awesome. It means you probably feel things more than the average person does, and that's pretty cool.
00:23:38
Speaker
Just take some work, you know, to to work through the negative sides of this. But, like, it's not it's not all bad stuff. I think my art is better because I feel things very intensely.
00:23:51
Speaker
I think I can connect with people
00:23:55
Speaker
in a really good, positively intense way because of it. But you just got to put that work in. And like you were saying, accept that part of yourself and work with it rather than trying to like shut it down, trying to turn the thing off. Because...
00:24:12
Speaker
tried to do that for all of my twenties basically. And that it that doesn't work. It doesn't work. It will make you miserable. um And it's not a thing that, you know, needs to be destroyed.
00:24:25
Speaker
It's just something you got to work with. And there's some beautiful things to it also. There is, there's a lot of silver linings. Like you were saying, I tried to remind myself bipolar, like, Hey,
00:24:38
Speaker
you know, I feel the bad things very intensely, but at the same time, I also get to experience real, real joy and very simple things that other people may not think about, um, and a real gratitude for those good days.
Creativity and Empathy in Neurodivergence
00:24:56
Speaker
Um, and yeah, increased creativity too. There's, There's upsides, and when you find the right people who really accept that and appreciate that in you, it'll be good.
00:25:12
Speaker
Also, you work through that stuff, you can help other people work through it, and that's a really good feeling for like stuff that you've struggled with in the past. That's why I get a lot out of doing my show. Yeah.
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah. yeah
00:25:28
Speaker
there's there's there's good parts to this. think it's made me a more empathetic person. And I'm but don i glad for that. I had people in my life when I was younger who really helped me out because they'd been through stuff and I'm glad that I i can be that for some people.
00:25:44
Speaker
Even though really sucks sometimes to deal with all of this. yeah Thank you for having me on. It's been very fun chatting with you. Yes, thank you for coming on.
00:25:57
Speaker
And if you guys have not checked out Donovan's podcast yet, give it a listen.
Promotions and Resources
00:26:02
Speaker
Lots of helpful advice. Very interesting conversations. Hey, thank you.
00:26:09
Speaker
It's radio-free tote bag on everything. Like anywhere you get a podcast, our website's rftb.me, as in me. We got an anonymous question box you can you can write into.
00:26:23
Speaker
And then you can find my music Donovan-Air, E-Y-R-E, on, I don't know, YouTube and Bandcamp and stuff. I'm still relatively new to it. I'm so bad at promoting my own stuff and like putting it up, but I have some music online now.
00:26:39
Speaker
You came to my fricking first live performance. Thank you again for doing that. That was, so many people came out. That made me so fucking happy. So if you like weird synth music, is go go check out my stuff.
00:26:52
Speaker
Yeah, Donovan's music is amazing. They're super, super talented. um Just really a unique sound that, like, talking about stimulation, i was so, like, my brain was buzzing. I was just like, this is tapping into something that is, like, amazing.
00:27:12
Speaker
ah that makes really happy to hear. Hell yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, we'll see you guys next week. Thanks for listening. Bye.