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Dating and Having Sex While Trans and Nonbinary Part 2
11 Plays44 minutes ago
On this week's episode we're getting into even more advice on dating and having sex while trans and nonbinary. Guest Valerie joins us to give helpful advice, validation, and remind everyone of the silver linings.
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Transcript
Introduction to Dating and Sex for Trans and Non-Binary People
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to part two of dating and sex while trans and non-binary.
Challenges in Dating for Trans and Non-Binary People
00:00:09
Speaker
getting into the topic of dating a little bit to more um So and today's world, all there's a lot of ways we can date, you know, online, in person, um and a lot of ways to meet people. But, you know, there's kind of more on the line with the stigma and prejudice that trans and non-binary people face.
00:00:30
Speaker
So Valerie, do you have any recommendations for the best ways for these folks to meet a partner or a play partner?
Safe Dating Apps for Trans and Non-Binary People
00:00:41
Speaker
Sure. Yeah.
00:00:42
Speaker
yeah As much as, you know, like we hate apps, social media, et cetera, I still think that they're really good spots and they allow for a level of like safety, right? So that we're not necessarily always meeting in person, right?
00:00:58
Speaker
Field is a mess in terms of technology, but it certainly is like very diverse and you're seeing people, a from like all walks of life, all desires, all interests, right? It is not an app for non-monogamy, but I also see a lot of folks being open and transparent, like, hey, I'm here to we explore, right? And I think that's fine.
00:01:21
Speaker
fine um There's other LGBT apps. I know a lot of folks utilize FetLife as well, if they are of the kinky variety. And I would say like queer, kink, I don't know, it's like almost perfect men diagram most of the time, right? But I do think that people feel a lot of empowerment from there.
00:01:41
Speaker
um And, you know, I know we're in Chicago, so we're really lucky, but I would certainly encourage folks to seek out the different groups that are around their own city. Right. And what's going on.
Inclusive Events and Communities in Chicago
00:01:54
Speaker
um i think you, Natalie, and the sluts team have like done a great job of being like inclusive and open. And every time I went to your parties, they're like,
00:02:04
Speaker
all sorts of people from all walks of life.
Transparency and Authenticity in Relationships
00:02:06
Speaker
and There's another great group here in Chicago called Altirotics. They are doing T4T sex parties every month at what was historically a bear bar here in Chicago. And so that place, other sex clubs, like they've really been spaces where I've entered and been like, holy crap, like the diversity, the type of bodies we're looking at, you know, i think that's one of the biggest and most beautiful things about the community. It's like, if we're talking about being queer, bi, pan, right? It's like, okay, walk into like a tea for tea sex party and like, tell me how it goes. Cause it's so much fun. Yeah.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yes, 100%. Love the Jackhammer shout out too because I know I've heard a lot of good things from my trans friends about you know various events they have going on. ah yeah if you're like looking for more events in community, i know Lex is good for that too because you set up your feed location-based so you can kind of find out what's going on, join different groups on there as well. um So yeah, and same thing with I'm in the same boat as you where I know online dating does get a
Recognizing and Avoiding Fetishization
00:03:20
Speaker
bad rep. Um, but the great thing about field is you can edit your preferences to specific, you know, demographics, gender, sexual identity, um which I like to do because I only date queer people. So it's super useful that way, you know?
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Um, yeah But yeah, getting into a little bit of dating struggles as well. um You know, as we all know, there are fetishizers out there.
00:03:55
Speaker
um And speaking to, you know, the cis audience, particularly if you are someone that wants to date trans and or non-binary people, you know, really do your due diligence. You really should be unpacking, reflecting, trying to make sure you're coming from this, coming towards this from the most authentic place, you know?
00:04:20
Speaker
um so Valerie, what would you say are some red flags that people can look out for, for people who want to ensure they're not fetishizing someone,
00:04:32
Speaker
and for trans and non-binary people who want to avoid being fetishized. Totally, yeah. And something I... um should have named at the jump, right? So i identify as non-binary. So I've kind of been on the spectrum, right, in terms of like identifying a cis and then not and maneuvering this, right?
Self-Reflection and Addressing Biases
00:04:55
Speaker
So there's kind of multiple facets of it. And I think, you know, entering the dating world kind of
00:05:04
Speaker
in both iterations, right? i felt like it was important to be honest about like my experience dating trans folks, right? Early on, right? I was like very new and was just honest of like, yeah, I've never had sex with the trans girl. Like help me understand, right? Whereas like later on it was like, yeah, I definitely have had these experiences a bit more comfort, right? I think people are very nervous about like being honest or just being like, yeah, I'm interested. I'm pan or bisexual and I'm very attracted to all sorts of people, but I've never dated a trans person, right? I think that that is authentic and open in a way that like fudging an answer around that, like most people can tell and it just feels gross when it's like, hey, I'm new to this, but I'm open to learning. I'm open to the experience. Right. So that's what I would want to ah encourage folks. And very similar to what you said is like, it's important to interrogate our biases.
Attraction Without Fetishization
00:06:07
Speaker
Right. Right.
00:06:08
Speaker
This is not the conversations we're having with other trans people. This is where we talk about right emotional labor around like, hey, are we making sure we're asking the right questions to people? Who do we ask? Interrogating our own biases is certainly something to do with other cis people or right with a therapist. Right.
00:06:28
Speaker
I'm often surprised and heartened that people do come to the practice I work at and to like myself as a non-binary therapist to kind of explore and be open and honest about it rather than be like, oh man, I know people would feel so weird if I said this elsewhere. um And I also want to name for like cis people that like It's okay and wonderful and beautiful to be attracted to trans people. Like, yes, we all should be. And to I think where it gets weird or where it's like, that moment of like, oh, wait a minute, like, is this fetishy or whatnot is when people are like, oh my god, you like get the best of both worlds. I hear that a lot. And It's a little strange because I'm like, okay, like maybe sure, but like that's not the point. And I highly doubt that that person is going to want to orient their experience around like two worlds, right? Unless they might, but most of the time that's pretty weird ah to say. um
Safety Tips for Dating
00:07:28
Speaker
And then for trans folks, you know, it it's tough times. And I don't think that... you can always avoid people who are wanting to fetishize or unicorn you, right?
00:07:42
Speaker
And I have seen plenty of trans folks on profiles. I've met people who love to unicorn and they're like, yeah, I'll come like be the person you've never dated or hooked up with. I'll do that. And they're like, fine with that. Right. But oftentimes people are not. And so that's where it's important to even like reflect and be like, hey, have you ever dated a trans person before? Like what's your experience around this? And seeing your own comfort level around dating someone who's cis, who has maybe varying levels.
00:08:13
Speaker
um And unfortunately, like so much of this has to do with safety. So I know a lot of my clients and my friends now are always sharing their location with somebody they're telling people and this again is like kind of one on one dating etiquette behavior, but like letting people know exactly who you're going to be for dates, letting them know how they feel.
00:08:35
Speaker
And having an out plan. i actually recently worked through this with a client where she happened to be at a date with a guy who like within 15 minutes, she was like, oh, he's not
Genuine Support vs. Performative Gestures
00:08:46
Speaker
cool. It was a bad vibe. He was uncomfortable, wouldn't look her in the eye. Classic stuff, right? And she just...
00:08:53
Speaker
took herself to the bathroom and walked out the back door kind of thing. Right. And as much as we hate to do that, and maybe that guy did not have ill intentions, it was enough that it was like, I don't need to continue this date. um And yeah, having the friends and support there to make you feel like you have the agency to do that, I think is key.
00:09:13
Speaker
Yes. 100% always listen to your gut. It's always better to be safe than sorry. yeah, Like you said, you know, I think that was a really good call out to like the nonverbal cues as well.
00:09:29
Speaker
Not looking you in the eye. i mean, you know, it could be that they're shy, but it could also be about your safety and wellbeing in that moment. So looking out for things like that when it comes to comfort, um looking out for is somebody as vocal for their advocacy about you as they are for the general trans population. You know, yeah this person may tell you how much they love trans femmes or non-binary people.
00:10:01
Speaker
um But outside in the real world, are they somebody who is also that much of an advocate for trans rights? And this is like a core part of their belief system and values. um I think also,
00:10:17
Speaker
You know, something I watch out for as well is how people view different identities on the spectrum. i interacted with somebody who at first glance seemed very pro-trans because of how they describe trans women and trans women they had dated.
00:10:37
Speaker
um But then once a trans man came up in the conversation, the tone changed much later. so You know, looking out for that kind of stuff as well. Yeah.
00:10:51
Speaker
And then the other thing people get into as well, cis people trying to date trans and non-binary people, um is kind of this coming from this place of cis-saviorism.
00:11:05
Speaker
Like you said earlier, and we've been saying, um trans and non-binary people...
Cultural Reverence and Respect for Trans People
00:11:10
Speaker
you should feel proud to be that. They are beautiful people. They are wonderful partners. They are very worthy of dating.
00:11:17
Speaker
um and there is nothing wrong or shameful about them or anything that should be looked down upon. But sadly, people either have prejudice or they have an internal prejudice. so they may just kind of be this person who thinks like,
00:11:34
Speaker
oh, I don't mean to approach them. They're just going to really be into me, of course, because no one's approaching them, which is just not the reality. Trans and non-binary people are living very full lives without you, so you don't have to feel like you need to come from a place of saviorism.
00:11:54
Speaker
So, you know, with the dating landscape, are there any ways you'd recommend trans and non-binary people avoid someone coming from that place of cis-saviorism?
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's like so weird to me that it still happens because I feel like disability justice told us, right? Like nobody's brave or, you know, inspiring for their hardships, right? But, you know, here we are, right?
00:12:23
Speaker
And i think my assertion ah for trans people and cis people, right, is that trans people are sacred and they're also holy. And throughout time and through different cultures, right, they have been revered for people who either live in multiple spaces, right, or can traverse multiple spaces. And so the fact that we are seeing more and more trans people on a day-to-day basis, right, and there are plenty of people that you may see that you would never know, right, but that they're out there, right, it's like,
00:13:02
Speaker
they They have had to endure and go through and then also ultimately survive and thrive a very difficult process where most of society, most of the medical system right is against them or actively attempting to like thwart them. Right. And so when we're encountering folks in the wild, it's like, come correct around the fact that like, these folks have had to do so much more and the level of like self reflection they've had to do so much more than the vast majority of us have had to do. And so yeah, it's a little bit like, yeah, let's remember kind of the history of what the queer and trans community truly is. regardless of kind of the like, you know, westernized colonial conception of us, which is inaccurate.
00:13:52
Speaker
Yes, 110% trans and genderqueer people have always existed. um There's so much recording of them throughout history.
00:14:03
Speaker
um and it's really just the super Western colonial belief that, oh my God, this is a new thing.
Conclusion: Embracing Trans Identities and Allyship
00:14:10
Speaker
um And like you said, these people were major key players in their societies. They were bully people. They were revered. They were seen as very special people in society. So remember that. And if you are trans or non-binary, remember that too, that you also have that power and you are a part of this very beautiful, amazing history. um and I think that leads us to our
00:14:38
Speaker
really good closing note to if you're trans or non-binary, remember that yes, in our current society, there is huge amounts of discrimination, legislation that's anti-trans people who are going to hate you for simply being you.
00:15:01
Speaker
um But as we've been saying, there's not just such a power within you because of what you have overcome and what you are going through, but also this aspect of you have this beautiful gift of having so much more depth than the cishet counterparts and people that have never done any self-reflection, people that have never questioned anything about themselves.
00:15:28
Speaker
You, when it comes to dating and sex, are getting the opportunity to learn so so much about yourself and really inspect that in a way that like we said says that people just don't really do and they a lot of people sadly go and live their lives just never really figuring out what's best for them or what feels most affirming so remember that remember your power remember the beauty and who you are um and yeah any closing thoughts you'd like to add balleries
00:16:02
Speaker
was beautiful. My final thought is protect trans people. Please protect our community. Hey, protect your neighbors, right? I think it's time that we all need to show up for ourselves and, you know,
00:16:17
Speaker
what we experience again with our community is just a, uh, a small example, right. Of what could possibly happen with the rest of us. Right. So my big vital call is just like protect us. Yeah. here Yes. It's such an important reminder right now. And if you are says and were listening, saying um If you would like to be an ally, if you would like to date genderqueer people and trans and non-binary people, remember that there is so much work that needs to be done right now to protect these people.
00:16:55
Speaker
um We are living in a time where they are being attacked from literally every front, from legislation, from socialization. um so speak up for those things.
00:17:07
Speaker
Correct someone when they misgender someone. you know, call out places that use gendered bathrooms. Do things in your community. Go to protests. Post about it online. Get involved. um Always look for those ways to help out because we need it now more than ever.
00:17:27
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right. That has been the Fond of Sex podcast and we'll see you next time. Bye.
00:17:38
Speaker
Bye.