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Dating and Sex While Neurodivergent
122 Plays11 days ago
Dating and sex can feel more complicated while dealing with neurodivergencies in a neurotypical world. Host Natalie and guest Donovan Eyre of the Radio Free Tote Bag Podcast discuss what aspects of relationships and play are impacted by neurodivergencies, share anecdotes, and give helpful advice.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Fun with Sex podcast. I'm Natalie and then I have a new guest on the show today, Donovan.
00:00:13
Speaker
What's happening?
About Radio Free Tote Bag Podcast
00:00:15
Speaker
It's me, I'm Donovan. I'm the host of a podcast called Radio Free Tote Bag that ah John and Natalie came on.
00:00:24
Speaker
And we're we're like an advice show. Dating advice, sex advice, mental health advice. People write in each week. I do with my co-host Audrey. We have guests on.
00:00:36
Speaker
Interview them about their relationship and dating experience. And then they help us answer questions. Been going for like seven years.
00:00:47
Speaker
There's like 500 plus hours of my voice out there, which is wild. Oh my God. Just on our show. So... Thanks for having me on. We had a great time having you all on. it's It's cool to be on your show.
Challenges of Dating While Neurodivergent
00:01:00
Speaker
Yeah, exciting to have you um And today we're doing a topic that I was inspired to do. I'm neurodivergent. And today we're going talk about neurodivergencies and dating.
00:01:16
Speaker
And really, I was inspired to do this topic because, you know, living in a neurotypical world, it just sometimes feels like you're on totally different planet than everyone else.
00:01:28
Speaker
um I literally have a running joke in my relationship where my partner will see clear as day that somebody is hitting on me or trying to date me.
00:01:40
Speaker
And I'm just totally naive to it, have no idea until somebody is like very directly telling me. um So we're going be covering all of that, just all the different things that may affect your relationships, how you're dating, how play is, give some helpful advice, share some anecdotes, that sort of thing.
00:02:04
Speaker
All right.
Understanding Neurodivergencies in Relationships
00:02:05
Speaker
So to start off, I think one of the most important aspects is being able to find the right partner. um You know, it's, of course, helpful to date other neurodivergent people.
00:02:18
Speaker
But of course, things definitely manifest differently in different people. Like, for example, my partner that I live with has ADHD, but he's really someone where he likes multiple noises stimulating him at all times and I am the person where I'm like if it's not perfectly quiet when I'm trying to focus on something I like cannot function um so yeah with your experience dating Donovan what would you say are some traits that
00:02:53
Speaker
you know, are kind of easier to date that type of person versus things you just like cannot deal with?
Donovan's OCD Experience and Relationships
00:03:02
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a little bit similar to that.
00:03:07
Speaker
So I was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder when I was when i was a teenager. And I think that captures a lot of what I what i deal with.
00:03:18
Speaker
I think the mainstream understanding of what OCD is, though, is like it's very off. you know You tell somebody that, and they're like, oh, you must be very organized. You must be like very... my god Everything has to be in you know a right... You must be very clean or whatever.
00:03:33
Speaker
and like I'm not a horribly messy person, but like there's some loose seltzer cans in my apartment right now. It's not the tidiest place in the world. For me, it is mostly fixating on things and getting locked in a thought spiral, sometimes to the point of like dissociating.
00:03:52
Speaker
And obviously in a relationship where like ah emotions can run high or you really care about somebody, you really care about the relationship, that can be like a really, really debilitating thing.
00:04:05
Speaker
The same thing with sexuality is like we can kind of get into. um So for me, I kind of have to find people who get that, who understand just kind of how I how i work, basically, and can kind of like recognize if I'm in a spiral.
00:04:28
Speaker
or if I'm like seeming distant or something that it's not like about them necessarily, it's like, I have some stuff going on and like, I've been in treatment on and off in this for over 15 years.
00:04:41
Speaker
I have a pretty good handle on my, on my stuff. ah But it, I mean, it's definitely caused problems with dating for me, like, especially as a teenager, just like really falling for somebody in getting that, like,
00:04:56
Speaker
Nothing else matters. The world is over if it doesn't work out with this person thing. ah That's not a healthy foundation for a relationship. That'll really mess you up. And as a result of that, like I've gotten in a couple of really codependent relationships, especially when I was younger, where just that,
00:05:15
Speaker
over fixation and spiraling and like avoiding any kind of anxiety or like worrying like oh they're being different today do they hate me now is there you know what i mean that that kind of thing like jumping to these um uh very extreme conclusions uh can be can be difficult so like For me, I tend to date people who have something going on.
Interconnection of Neurodivergencies
00:05:40
Speaker
I kind of feel like everybody does.
00:05:42
Speaker
Right. But have something going on enough that they can like speak to that, that they know what it's like to kind of have good days and bad days in in that kind of way.
00:05:53
Speaker
um And then but i can get into this later maybe. It might be on the same spectrum as autism. ADHD, OCD, I think there is kind of evidence developing that all might just be quadrants of the same thing. I have a lot of like sensory things.
00:06:11
Speaker
And. course that comes up with sexuality that can come up you were describing kind of needing a quiet space like i have white noise machines running in my apartment all the time yeah which for some people don't like that some people some people hate that so i kind of uh like living with somebody there's kind of these things that i don't necessarily notice about myself because i've always been like this that the other people are like The TV is on in the background. How does that possibly bother you?
00:06:42
Speaker
But it's like things are amplified. Background noises can be very affect me in a way. And probably you from what you're describing, Natalie, in a way that most people it doesn't affect most people. They they wouldn't notice.
Communication and Empathy in Relationships
00:06:56
Speaker
So there's a lot of context for this, but it's kind of about finding people who get it for lack of a better term. Mm hmm. Yeah, I have a similar experience. I also have a very misunderstood disorder. i have bipolar. So when I get into meeting someone new, i'm I just start off. I'm like, hey, this is the reality. Here is like the scientific psychological what it is, because a lot of people when they picture bipolar, they picture what they see in the media or the like,
00:07:33
Speaker
Bipolar is something that is cyclical over the course of months and months or weeks to months. And people think bipolar is like, you're happy one minute, you're angry the next. And it's just not that. That's not how it works.
00:07:48
Speaker
um But really, i kind of use that telling people early on as a litmus test. Because if you have like a weird reaction to that, I'm like, oh, you're just not...
00:07:59
Speaker
gonna be empathetic or receptive to anything after this versus somebody who's like, oh, I honestly don't know a lot about it, but like, I want to learn and I want to seek out resources.
00:08:14
Speaker
um That's like the green flag for me. We talk about that a lot on our show um because, like I said before, I think everybody has something going on.
00:08:25
Speaker
It's just degrees of severity and degrees of, like, recognizing and kind of trying to work around it versus being like, no, this is fine. I can white-knuckle through anything. I'm, quote-unquote, normal.
00:08:37
Speaker
So we talk a lot about that with dating, like a filter, effectively. People are like, oh, you know, I've got – I have depression waves or something. Should I like bring that up on ah on a first date? say what ah You know, what if somebody is like put off by that?
00:08:53
Speaker
And we're always like, you know, don't go on a first date and immediately. Be like, I am fucking depressed like that. But when you kind of establish some rapport with somebody, get the sense you can talk to him about things.
00:09:06
Speaker
It's just somebody who is willing to be like, yeah, you know, everybody's got some something going on. I can't i help me understand this we can work through this.
00:09:17
Speaker
um But it is just like a necessary check you have to do. But it's not something to hide. because that just ends up blowing up. And it does kind of end up being useful because I also just like personally, I don't want to date somebody who's not empathetic to this kind of thing.
00:09:34
Speaker
I think that tends to be a very closed-minded kind of person. So there is an upside to it in the sense that like, yeah, you get that litus litmus test on them.
00:09:45
Speaker
You can establish pretty early on, does this person have a good heart is like the way I think about it because it's the kind of people I want to date. Yes, totally.
00:09:57
Speaker
um so getting into a big thing that is affected by a multitude of neurodivergencies, communication. um For myself with ADHD and bipolar, I really, i cannot do any level of indirect communication.
00:10:17
Speaker
if there are like, hints that you're upset at me, if you're hinting that you want to have sex instead of just saying it like I will have no idea and i think that makes a lot of sense when you look at my sexuality because I'm into kink and I'm a sub and I do really well with like 24 7 dumb sub dynamics because it's like oh, you want me to do something?
00:10:46
Speaker
You just tell me. And I'm like, okay, cool, perfect. This is so easy. The expectations are clear. And the communication, especially, I'm in a similar way of being involved in BDSM, that there is, at least among people doing it right, an emphasis on communication and checking in.
00:11:04
Speaker
I'm kind of the the same way. I need people to just be clear about things. God, that's That's a nightmare sometimes when you're figuring it out, though.
00:11:15
Speaker
um I don't know what your experience is like with this. I think part of this is like, I'm not binary, but I sound like this. I have a mustache. I'm fairly strong. like I'm a pretty masculine-looking person.
00:11:28
Speaker
There is that like societal norm of like, oh, the guy has to make a move or whatever. And I am just not, I can't subtly flirt at all. like i just I can't do it.
00:11:41
Speaker
but I am very social. I think initially people don't clock me as like having something going on. So I have to just like directly ask people if they want to, do you want to kiss me?
00:11:54
Speaker
That kind of just it's saying something very direct like that. ah And I've had people be like, until you said that, I didn't think you were into me. When in my head, I'm like, oh, this date has been great. I'm loving chatting to this person. I'm into them.
00:12:07
Speaker
So I very much feel that it is like, It's a tough thing to navigate because some people are then put off by that. They don't like like the super directness. da yeah Just a weird thing to navigate when you're not wired to do the kind of subtle hinting thing.
00:12:26
Speaker
But also, like i'd just be clear about things. I don't know. Even just logically, that that makes more sense to me to just be direct. Right? I completely agree. I mean, even...
00:12:38
Speaker
Like same thing with me on the other end. I think I'm giving all the cues that I'm really into someone. And when I'm like, hey, into you. It's like, oh, or like the thing that has followed me, my pretty much whole time I've been dating is I'll be like dating someone and so obsessed with them.
00:13:02
Speaker
And like after a month of dating, they'll be like, are you into me? and I'm just like, yes. Like, was it not clear? Yeah.
Impact of ADHD and Bipolar Disorder on Emotions
00:13:13
Speaker
And something we've touched on a bit already is this idea of emotional processing. I know you were talking about your experience of, you know, having those very heightened emotions when it comes to relationships.
00:13:28
Speaker
um And that's definitely mine too. With ADHD, with bipolar, i mean, we're going to get into rejection sensitivity as well. um I'm somebody where I have very big emotions and things that may seem small to other people feel very, very intense for me. um And of course, like, you know, therapy has helped a lot, learning how to communicate things in a better way.
00:14:03
Speaker
um But yeah, it it's very hard when you're neurodivergent to not allow your mind to spiral and to read into things.
00:14:15
Speaker
I think the other big thing I struggle with as well is I definitely have a slower emotional processing speed at times. So for me with dating, sometimes I don't even realize my feelings for someone until later. um I'm E and M. Yeah. So there, it's like a common thing with dating where my partner that I love with John will be like, oh I feel like you love this person. I'm like, I know, not yet, not yet. And then I'm like, no, yeah.
00:14:51
Speaker
Um, And then I feel like the other thing with emotional processing too is it really does come into play as well and being able to communicate your emotions and how you're feeling and understand what you're feeling and what you want to consent to um So how do you feel like different emotional processing or feeling emotions differently has affected dating and play for you?
00:15:25
Speaker
Hmm. So I have a different experience to that. And I want to ask you about the kind of slow emotional processing thing. Cause feel like i might have the reverse.
00:15:39
Speaker
Um, a lot of how I navigate, like everything is kind of gut feeling. Like I think i I, mean, even problem solving things, figuring out what to do relationships, just like the energy of different things, whatever.
00:15:55
Speaker
I rely on kind of gut feeling. And for me, the thing that is disruptive is that if I have like a lot of things going on, if there are a lot of like emotionally stressful or emotionally intense things happening, that it can kind of like compromise my functioning in other areas where like, where it intersects with the OCD stuff is if say,
00:16:23
Speaker
I'm in a relationship. Something is not going well. There's some kind of like you had an argument or like there's going to be an uncertainty in the future and you're trying to figure out how to navigate that with somebody.
00:16:38
Speaker
I have something where i can get locked on to that and keep running through like all of the possibilities of what could happen. And while doing that, like I am feeling ah we have to move, what if we can't make this happen? And like it ends up, we have to live in a different place. Or if this person's got some work thing coming up, is it going to be feasible to continue the relationship if our work schedules don't line up or something?
00:17:10
Speaker
With that kind of thing, it can be something that To the detriment of everything else in my life, I just get stuck on that thing and trying to figure out like, what do I do if this happens? What do I do if this happens?
00:17:26
Speaker
And with that comes like all of the anxiety of of considering all these like worst case scenarios and stressful like potential situations that like one it makes it hard to just do other everyday things because I'm kind of using that same part of my brain that same way of processing for other things in my life.
00:17:48
Speaker
And the other thing being, like, I also feel things very, very intensely. And so there's a certain point where i just hit, like, a burnout. And it affects my memory. It affects my ability to just do, like, basic functioning.
00:18:01
Speaker
And it can be a real nightmare to navigate. And, like, when I was younger, i didn't understand any of this about myself. I didn't understand kind of how my my brain and how my feelings worked.
00:18:13
Speaker
And I would hit that burnout point and just be like kind of hit an avoidant place of like, this is all exhausting. I can't handle this. So I am just going to run to kind of like maintain ah some kind of control over the situation.
Managing Emotions and Anxiety in Relationships
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah. For me, there's like a whole attachment style thing also. Like I moved every few years unexpectedly growing up. So I always, this is something I'm like actively working on in therapy. I've really been trying to work on the past few years, not really having recognized it before.
00:18:46
Speaker
um When all of this coincides with like a fear of abandonment kind of thing or like an uncertainty where like things could possibly end or something could change,
00:18:58
Speaker
I have to like consciously make sure I'm not just following that impulse to just run. Cause like if I've exhausted all of my processing power, but I still feel this anxiety thing, my body tells me like the easiest option here is just, Oh, fucking run, just get out of here, kill, kill this relationship, uh, drop like it, just get out of here so that you don't have to like face that cycle of, of burnout and obsessive thinking that's so rough.
00:19:26
Speaker
Um, It's rough. it's It's really rough. It's made dating like really hard at times. um And I think this is the case for most kind of neurodivergent things, that the key to all of this is just you got to understand how you work before you can like effectively manage that, before you can kind of create the strategies of, okay, if I know we have this stressful event coming up and it's something I can fixate on,
00:19:57
Speaker
How do I preempt that so that it doesn't get to that point that I spiral and wig out and everything falls apart or whatever? And a lot of that is just communicating about feelings and being very direct about where I'm at.
00:20:13
Speaker
um So kind of coming back we were talking about before, like it's important to find somebody who gets that and is willing to have that conversation of like, Hey, I recognize that this sounds crazy and this isn't rational. Like I'm aware it's not rational, but I'm still feeling it.
00:20:31
Speaker
Can we talk through this so that I can kind of let go of that, you know? And then there's also just like personal practices for managing anxiety and obsessive thinking that are the component of it of it also. But yeah, yeah.
Therapy and Self-Compassion in Relationships
00:20:50
Speaker
Shit's hard. it's It's really hard. Yeah. I deal with something very similar to, i definitely have this very avoidant side um where if there's struggles, if somebody does something I don't like, if people, cause I think it also feeds into the neurodivergencies as well is because of you know, me being neurodivergent, but people don't see me as neurodivergent.
00:21:23
Speaker
If I'm just unmasked and being myself at times, because especially with bipolar two, you're just going to have days that are like a low mood, low energy day. And it's very hard to like turn it on and be my regular bubbly self.
00:21:42
Speaker
Um, and it, sadly, just manifests a lot of anxiety in people. But, you know, the part that's difficult is like, the way my brain deals with that is it's like,
00:21:56
Speaker
this person is feeling anxious around me. We need to just like run away and avoid it forever. Right. And that's not a good thing to do. And yes, I'm working on in therapy.
00:22:09
Speaker
um But yeah, the avoidance stuff, I think um what you were touching on too with communicating it, that was like a very helpful tool that my friend was giving me as well as kind of wording things in a way of like,
00:22:26
Speaker
I understand this isn't the reality, but right now my brain is telling me this and it thinks that this is going to happen. And like, let's just talk about it. Cause then the person will probably be like, Oh no, not at all. Like, you know, we're good and everything. Um, even like personifying things is super helpful. Like my friend also gave the advice of like,
00:22:55
Speaker
personifying like Bob is saying this right now and that sort of thing. Yeah. Bring some humor into it. Why not?
00:23:09
Speaker
I think you gotta, and I mean, that's kind of the like philosophy of our show. Cause we talk about some pretty heavy stuff and like my, my cohost has bipolar one and I've got all my stuff going on.
00:23:23
Speaker
is like, you gotta laugh at it sometimes. Otherwise it would be the most just like somber, bleak fucking show. Because there is something funny about it. Like sometimes i'll I'll get in some kind of spiral or something, burn a few hours just just feeling miserable and get out of it and be like, what the fuck was I doing?
00:23:46
Speaker
And it's easy, and I kind had this when I was younger, when I didn't have the best self-esteem, to then go into a spiral of beating yourself up about it. Like, I'm a mess. I'm never going to be able to make anything work.
00:23:59
Speaker
What am I, like, what am I, if I should just give up, basically? And then you're just triggering, triggering like, another wave of anxiety and spiraling. Whereas now I can kind of be like, Damn, that sucks, dude. I just like burned an entire afternoon.
00:24:13
Speaker
The worrying and feeling like shit, which doesn't help anything, just makes it worse. that suck That sucks. Oh, what? My brain's just being an asshole today. Okay, what what can i do to like actually relax and chill here for a bit and like get myself straightened out?
00:24:31
Speaker
I kind of think about it kind of how I do my cat where like, My cat's an asshole sometimes. She just starts knocking stuff over or she's yelling for food or she's scratching a box really loud and annoyingly.
00:24:44
Speaker
But you can't go up and be like, hey, fuck you. yeah Because it's just ah it's just a little cat. you know She's just having whatever's going on with her. You got to approach these things from a place of like, hey, you are annoying. This part of me, you are annoying and disruptive.
00:24:59
Speaker
But I still, I love you. You're part of me And I'm here. I'm not going away. I'm here for you. I've got your back. I kind of do that kind of self-talk. And I find that that calms things rather than that like reactive, again, ah like i'm I'm a disaster. I'm insane, whatever kind of negative self-talk you get into.
00:25:22
Speaker
I just kind of treat that part of myself like, I don't know, like a scared animal or something that I got to, got to calm calm down and yeah the advice i always give people is to really talk to yourself how you would talk to a friend if your friend came to you and was like hey i'm having a bad mental health day i'm spiraling about this thing i'm feeling super depressed i don't know what to do you wouldn't be like got it get it together. Like, what is wrong? Like, can you imagine? like
00:25:57
Speaker
So it's like, talk to yourself that way. Don't beat yourself up. And like, the thing I always like, I remind myself too, is I'm like, if other people had my things and had my trauma and had my exact situation that my brain has been through, like they would be and the exact same spot. It's just really out of your control.
00:26:25
Speaker
That's just like how your brain has developed. Um, so just reaching some level of acceptance that like, this is a part of you. And and instead of feeling defeated, just trying to like, as the years go on, figure out how to work with yourself.