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Least Said, Soonest Mended
35 Plays3 months ago
In this episode Andrew and Patrick discuss how relationships can often benefit from less communication, the proper way to look at history, and the virtue of forgiveness.
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Inspiration
00:00:00
Speaker
and the brave new world begins when all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins as surely as water will wet us as surely as fire will burn the gods of the coffee book headings with terror and slaughter returned
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello everybody and thank you for joining us for another episode of the Copybook Headings podcast. If you're a new listener just joining for the first time, this show is inspired by the poem by Richard Kipling called The Gods of the Copybook Headings. And every week we take an old proverb saying or maxim and we break it down to see what we can learn from it and to see if there's any ancient wisdom that's still relevant today contained in these old sayings.
Meet the Hosts: Patrick & Andrew
00:00:51
Speaker
I'm your host Patrick Payne and with me as always is my co-host Andrew Stevens. Andrew, how are you man?
00:00:56
Speaker
I'm doing all right. How about you? Good. and um You know, yeah same old same old pretty much over here. How about you? Yeah, good.
Weather Tales: Andrew's Rainstorm Experience
00:01:06
Speaker
It's been good. We had the we had an interesting rainstorm this last week. I don't know if you saw um pictures or video of that like in my town or not where we live. Fortunately, we're kind of south of where happening and we live on kind a top of a hill. So we're not too at risk there but just like this flash storm came through real fast and just dumped a ton of water and a ton of hail and so just some some parts of town got really flooded. There's a, I saw a video of like the skate park just with like a foot of water in it and stuff and I drove by the other day and it was like
00:01:45
Speaker
drained now, but it completely you know filthy, full of leaves and muck and stuff. So yeah, it was is interesting ah having those afternoon storms, um you know the the monsoon season here. so I mean, apart from this odd little bit of destruction, I hey do enjoy these rainstorms. It gets so dried out this in the summer. you know Yeah, I love them. we've We've had a few of those, nothing that bad. We had one just the other day that Um, a friend of mine sent a link to like the, uh, the oceanic weather, whatever, like the official thing that said for our region. And it said, you can expect like quarter size hail and all this stuff. And it's kind of like, dang. So it was like, let's pull all the cars in the garage. And normally we don't park the cars in the garage in the summertime. We just do in the winter.
00:02:37
Speaker
So all summer just accumulates crap in the garage. So then we're like moving bikes and all sorts of stuff alter try toys and stuff. Yeah. Try to get the cars in the garage and then we get the cars in the garage and there it was nothing. So it's like a little sprinkle. So of course, but yeah, I'm not, I'm not used to living somewhere with, with big hail. So every now and then it surprises me here. We don't, I don't think we've ever had anything huge, but even like, you know, pea size, small marble size will ding up your car pretty good. So for sure.
Exploring the Proverb: 'Least Said, Soonest Mended'
00:03:08
Speaker
Well, cool. We got a good proverb this week. This is one you picked, right? You want to tell us about it? Yeah. Yes. Yes. that Our proverb today is least said, soonest mended, um which from what I found was, is from, at least from a ah Charles Dickens book. um I'm sure it's around sooner, but that's, that's where a lot of people come across it.
00:03:31
Speaker
um And ah what what really was is is i I was listening to listening to an audiobook today. I don't know. Have we talked about the the Richard Sharpe books ah before? The Sharpe's Rifles. So Napoleonic War, a British soldier who becomes an officer. Anyway.
00:03:53
Speaker
um They made a bunch of like TV movies with Sean Bean as the character. Fun books. Bernard Cornwell is the the author. He wrote The Last Kingdom books, if you've ever watched that show on Netflix. um Anyway, pretty pretty po prolific author and just fun war adventure books.
00:04:16
Speaker
And, uh, there's, there's one, the one I was i was listening to today, uh, an officer gets his leg broken in a battle, you know, falls off his horse. And one of the, they need to set the bone. He's like, no, let's, let's wait it. Let's wait a second here. You know, we're like, well, it's going to be a couple of days before we get to the hospital. So we better do it now. And one of the soldiers who's going to do it for him says, um, you know, sooner done, sooner mended.
The Proverb in Literature: Richard Sharpe's Story
00:04:43
Speaker
And, uh, like, Oh, that's a cool one.
00:04:45
Speaker
that's cool So I start looking for it and and here's my rant. like I cannot find that anywhere in the search engines. right i try I try Google, I try Brave, I try Bing, I try Duck Duck Go. like Trying to find soonest done, soonest mended, sooner done, sooner mended, something like that. um Because it definitely so it sounded folksy in in the story and sounded like something that existed as a proverb. but everything kept bringing me to least said, soonest mended. um like so So that's my beef with the the search algorithms. I think it's out there somewhere. I think this one exists.
00:05:29
Speaker
And maybe someday we'll find it and we'll come back to it. um But in the meantime, we'll do this one. i just told As you were saying that, I just typed it into chat GPT just to see what it said. And it said, the saying, sooner done, sooner mended is a variation of the more common proverb, at least said, sooner mended.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, and there you go I don't believe it. I don't believe it. I think chat GPT is just is crawling the same. Yeah, same stuff.
Proverb's Role in Relationships
00:06:02
Speaker
um
00:06:05
Speaker
But, you know, because in that in that instance, like in the story, I thought it it's really good, you know, the sooner you address this, this wound, the sooner you set this bone, the sooner it will heal and it'll be easier to set now than it will be in two days. Right.
00:06:21
Speaker
because you have to-break things to set it again. So I really liked that. um But Least said, as soon as a minute, I think has some interesting stuff, too. um And, you know, brings to mind relationships and um and and something that's maybe applicable to everyone all the time. So so I thought, OK, we'll go for it. we'll We'll run with this one. What did you think when you when I shot this one to you?
00:06:53
Speaker
ah Yeah, I thought this was was an interesting one when you sent it over. the The first thing that came to my mind as well was was relationships. where like ah So my understanding of the proverb, at least this version of at least said, soon as men did, is sometimes it's best not to dig into problems, but sometimes if you have a dispute or if you had an argument or something, it's usually best just to not say so much and just give it some time and then move on past it. is that That's kind of my understanding. What about you? Yeah, I think so. And ah it definitely seems like a ah very British, a very Northern European kind of sentiment to that's laconic. Yeah. ah Let's just hope, let's just not talk about it. Let's not talk about this problem. and
00:07:47
Speaker
um And I think it it works in a lot of cases. it It probably makes some things worse. You kind of need to to have some discernment on what you need to talk about. But I ah do find it's true, especially if you if tempers are a little hot, if people are a little um just kind of frazzled, it's it's nice to be able to step away and collect. And maybe you really don't need to say anything. like I think this happens with
00:08:18
Speaker
with, with me and my wife quite frequently, like, so say around bedtime, you know, getting the kids down and we're, we're, we're both really done for the day and the kids are really dragging things out. And, and, uh, and maybe we were a little short with each other and we really just kinda get the kids down and just kind of reset. And we really don't need to dig into, dig into it. We kind of are.
00:08:45
Speaker
you know, apologetic in our our silent ways and and move on and have a good evening. So that's that's what comes to mind with me on a somewhat regular basis. Yeah. um I think you're right that you do have to have some discernment, but I feel like ah it's it's real, I think it's a valid ah proverb because I think it's good advice in a lot of cases. i see We see quite often kind of a trend nowadays to be wanting to dig into everything. And I think what this one is cautioning is that digging into stuff can sometimes just make it worse or make you focus on the problems rather than, you know, it didn't say, don't say anything. It says least said, so maybe you want, maybe you do need to say just, I'm sorry, but that, and then leave it at that, you know, maybe you don't need to
00:09:37
Speaker
sit down and let's discuss why this happened or let's dig into the why you said that or what does this mean? Or yeah is this indicative of some bigger problem in our relationship? That I think is what this is cautioning against. And in that sense, I i agree with it. Yeah, you can really there's a tendency or or a ah drive to like dig into dig into ancient history with with some things and yes and reopen old wounds when you really don't need to. Yeah, yeah absolutely. what other what What else came to mind for me was um a lot of these kind of ah grievance studies that they have like the of majors and colleges where
00:10:22
Speaker
it's ah yeah It's really just kind of, you know. Rehashing a lot of history and stuff. yeah Yeah, I'm trying to find the right word for it. But yeah, exactly. It's just kind of um basically all looked at look that through some kind of lens of oppressor and oppressed. um and And these people coming out of this you know are full of all sorts of outrage and indignation because of the the crimes of the past, which you know in many cases are very real.
00:10:51
Speaker
um But I I've never seen it like cause make anything any better like it just it just seems to make people more angry and more upset and Make people less likely to to ah Get along peaceably and if that's your goal which who knows maybe there's an ulterior motive we had some of these maybe that's not their goal but if that is your goal is to have peace and and and you know harmony with people in your society i feel like this can this can have the opposite effect yeah for sure like um yeah digging digging into the into the past to find fault with people
00:11:35
Speaker
One, i and in such situations that you can't change, for one, and and and people who ah just had a different ah different outlook and a different experience, it's yeah it's counterproductive and it really just can make you angry. can and there's And there's no relief there because there's no reconciling with those people. There's no fixing those people. Yeah, they're gone. According to what? you know Yeah, exactly.
00:12:06
Speaker
And so all you can do is just put that, project that onto living people and then just make things harder for everyone. Because I mean, there's there's something you said. We've talked about this in in the past. We we had that ah our friend on to talk about history and you know kind of being you know doomed to repeat it. Yep.
00:12:27
Speaker
And so there is something to be said for learning from history and not making the same mistakes learning from from the people who've gone before. um But you can't fix history. You can only learn from it.
Viewing History Without Outrage
00:12:38
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Right. Yeah. I i mean, p I personally think this is maybe a strong opinion, but I i personally think anyone who reads history.
00:12:48
Speaker
and is like angered or upset by it, I think is a fool. i get it's it's You should view history as a as a like an impartial scientist. You're observing. you're you know Like a scientist would observe nature and maybe a predator is eating a prey. He's not gonna get morally outraged by that. His job is to observe it and document it and learn from it. i view you know If you're gonna be so a serious student of history, you have to view that the same way.
00:13:15
Speaker
and And, uh, these are the things that happened. Sure. They're, you know, if you look at individual acts, there's going to be good acts and bad acts for sure. But that's not what the point of history is, is to moralize it. The point of history is to, is to document it and learn what happened. Why, what are these things that cause it? And yeah, hopefully, hopefully learn some lessons for the future. and But yeah, the, the, the moralizing of history, I think is, is foolish.
00:13:42
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So here, here's a, a parenting question for you with this one, because what comes to mind with kids for this one is, uh, you know, the age old tattling question. Um, and, um,
00:13:59
Speaker
what what's your What's your family policy? What's the ah what's the the pain the pain family policy on on snitching? ah
00:14:11
Speaker
i ti On the tit-for-tat that kids do, right? yeah You know, so-and-so, so-and-so hit me all well. You hit me yesterday. So, you know, I don't know. You're probably the bad person to ask because I don't feel like we have any consistent or cohesive ah ah theory or philosophy on that. it More has to do with my mood in the moment. Yeah. And if I'm annoyed, I don't care. Go go away. Or if I'm trying to figure out who did this, then I'm like praising the snitch, you know. um But yeah, there's, you know,
00:14:46
Speaker
I don't know, as an adult, it seems obvious when to snitch and when not to, but kids don't know those things yet. They are still learning social things. So, you know. I don't know if I told this, I might've mentioned this when this happened. This is like a year ago or something. on I might've mentioned it on the air, but my kids got in trouble because there was some big like tractor backhoe thing out in the field behind our house and they were like throwing rocks at it because they thought that was a good idea somehow and they busted one of the windows. and so I had to go to talk to the guy who owned it and you know scrounge up money from the kids. They were like, you got to pay for it. you know We had to give the guys some money. Anyway, it's a whole big thing.
00:15:24
Speaker
And like none of them thought to tell dad that their brother was thrown right away. Why didn't you say that? like some Even someone were like, oh, I thought it was a bad idea, but I didn't say anything. And then they'll be like, you know he looked at me after he said,
00:15:39
Speaker
don't talk to each other or look at each other. He looked at me, he's like, okay, all right, all right, well, you know, I hardly need to know that. um But yeah, so so like to an adult, it seems obvious when those scenarios are appropriate to report to the parent in charge and when not to, but yeah, kids are still learning that, so it's ah it's an ongoing process to help them learn step by step.
00:16:05
Speaker
How about you? Oh, ah we don't we also do not have yet a a concrete policy.
Parenting Challenges: Tattling & Resolution Skills
00:16:15
Speaker
Just ah mostly just trying to to stop the physical retaliation at this point. Yeah. And and we'll get to the the tattling, I guess, and in short order, once the the youngest catches up with that. But Yeah, some it's something to think about um as far as, you know, little kids can be
00:16:39
Speaker
Well, kids are can be nasty to each other and and getting them to to not make things worse with their words is a challenge. So I have a question. What about um while we're on the topic of parenting, do you make your kids apologize? I've heard some people do that and some people say you shouldn't do that or back and forth. I don't know. What do you think about that? ah Yeah, um we do. And um
00:17:08
Speaker
and And I don't know, like they're still young enough that I don't, one, they don't really mean it even if they go along with it, right? like right And so so it's not like we're coercing something that they're you know vehemently against. But I don't know, I feel like it, my my natural inclination is to have them apologize to each other whether they want to or not. What what have you heard about, what's the argument on the other side of that?
00:17:37
Speaker
I can't remember, I just heard someone say once you shouldn't do that or I forget why, I'd have to look into it to to remember. um We do sometimes, um I don't know, I think when they're little, especially when they're very young, it's important to kind of teach that there's just a procedure when you when you do something wrong, you say you're sorry. yeah As they get older, then it becomes more of, okay, did you did you mean the apology? Do you actually feel remorse for the thing that you did?
00:18:04
Speaker
And that can be a little bit of a deeper conversation or a trickier thing versus just say or sorry. Sorry. And then they then they leave, right? I remember plenty of those times growing up. So ah so yeah, but but but for little kids, I don't think it's a um really a big problem to kind of teach them that Just the process, you you wrong someone, the the correct thing to do, that's the correct protocol is to say you're sorry. And then as they get older, they can learn kind of what what does that sorry mean and what should it what should it make you feel. Yeah. yeah we don't we ah I remember when I was a kid, we at least for a bit, we'd have like the... um
00:18:46
Speaker
we'd have to sit like on the love seat together in the family room um for for you know however long when we were, I don't know, we were a little older at that time.
00:18:57
Speaker
And so that was kind of the part of the penance ah and getting along as you had to would sit with each other. I know some people who do like those big shirts, they make the kids like share a big shirt. Yeah, we've done that. The the love pants, we used to get like a pair of my own sweatpants or something. and bake Both the kids wear them or shirts or something. Yeah, we've done that before. It's been a while. We should bring that one back. Bring that one back in the rotation.
00:19:23
Speaker
Although my boys are bigger now and they do jujitsu, so it might just turn into something ugly if they get trapped together in a giant shirt. yeah That might be entertaining, I don't know. Yeah, but just take it as a challenge.
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah. So with this one, um we already kind of talked a little bit about it. I don't think this is something that society respects at all. I think that it's extremely common for society to be like, you gotta go to therapy and dig into all of your problems and figure out why.
00:19:53
Speaker
you don't like your mom and then and then go tell her why you don't like her and all the things she did wrong and then, you know, ah have have long conversations with your spouse to determine your boundaries and all your this, that and the other. And by the way, you know, your ancestors were evil because of the history things they did. And and it's like, at some points, like you can keep tearing these wounds open, but they it's you have to leave something alone to let it heal at some point.
00:20:19
Speaker
yeah Yeah, because I think you know with with like with half of all that, I think there's value there.
Learning from Parenting Mistakes
00:20:27
Speaker
I think there's value in you know digging into into your past to to find out why things are the way they are, but then the next step probably isn't as necessary. And it goes right along with the saying is, you know, least said, right? Like you don't need to necessarily hash something really big out with someone else for, you know, the closure, the quote unquote closure. Yeah. Um, because like the, the, the lesson you're going to learn is just internal, right? Like it's, you're not gonna,
00:21:02
Speaker
force someone else to to see things your way or you know confronting them isn't necessarily going to get you anything so you know and same with like we were talking about with history you know like learning history um is is worthwhile but you know the next step of you know putting blame on on people who aren't involved or or who can't who can't uh reconcile anything is is not useful so yeah i think um
00:21:33
Speaker
I think people just take things too far beyond themselves and they try and, you know, push things on to other people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, with your, I mean, some point you have to just be like every kid growing up at some point realizes that their parents are just imperfect and you have a choice there. You can get all riled up about it and try to pin them down for all the things they did wrong. You can be like, okay, well, you know, that's that, you know, and you just move on and have a relationship with them.
00:22:01
Speaker
maybe different now, but going forward, right? And um yeah, a lot of these social issues, I mean, I i personally feel in my life, um maybe other people have different perspectives, but in my life, I feel like you know in just in America, race relations were better when I was a kid than they are now, is what it seems like. and maybe Maybe not perfect, but it seems like we've you know so society in that way has kind of gone backwards.
00:22:25
Speaker
um yeah where it's where it's you know very, very much spoken of now more so than before. So I i wonder if that you know it hasn't just had the opposite effect of of trying to allow people of different backgrounds to coalesce under the banner of American.
Confronting Parents: Beneficial or Not?
00:22:43
Speaker
you know yeah Yeah, I think you're right. I think this this manifests in a lot of places, um politics right now, you know, most of all.
00:22:57
Speaker
um But what I guess to get to continue on, we're both talking about with, you know, like I'm you reading parenting books and things like that every now and then. And you realize, oh,
00:23:14
Speaker
well, maybe my parents didn't do a great job with this one thing, right? And you you could go and confront them about it and you could make them feel bad. ah You're through that phase. And so making them feel bad about it isn't gonna do anything because they're not raising any more kids either. um So really all you can do is take that forward you know to your own kids and and try and improve generationally, which I think is just the really,
00:23:44
Speaker
Um, amazing thing about being a parent and, and being a link in that chain of your family, um, for, you know, millennia, right? That you can, that you can take, you can, you can see a failing in the past and you can improve on it and hopefully fix it or send things in the right direction for the next generation for your kids so that they can take it even further and fix things for theirs and I think that's real where growth comes is not is realizing some things you can't fix for yourself. You can only fix them for your kids, hopefully.
00:24:24
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think that's one of the coolest things about being a parent as well. I remember there was a time, and I'm trying to remember how old I was, I can't remember, but there was a time as a young adult where things, I was starting to learn things about that my parents were doing wrong for the first time. And I don't remember ever badgering them too bad about it, but there were times when it was going through my head and maybe I was biting my tongue. I was like, I really think that I should have told them this about this, that, and the other.
00:24:51
Speaker
And um then you kind of get older and you're like, okay, why? and like yeah you Maybe make them feel bad, but like what what are they going to do about it now? And and so, yeah yeah, this saying really applies. you know Least head soon as mended. If you can say very little about it, it soon passes. It becomes water under the bridge. Wounds can heal and things can then can improve ah going forward. so So um like like you said at the beginning, ah hardly any of these sayings can be taken out as hard and fast, do them all the time forever without exception. And this one I think is is that way as well. There may be times when you need to need to really kind of talk about something in ind depth.
00:25:37
Speaker
But I think a lot of the times, the best advice is is simply say what needs to be said only, and maybe that's less than you think, maybe it's nothing, and then move on. Yeah. This one also, um as you mentioned, is kind of like, ah you you joked that it was Northern European, like yeah the Mediterranean's probably don't have don't have this sort of style, right?
00:26:03
Speaker
you know You always have the the stereotype of the the angry Italian woman throwing the dishes or something. you know so um yeah I don't know what you make of that, but I think there's maybe a little bit of a cultural element to it too. Yeah,
Cultural Take on Proverb: Expressive vs. Reserved Societies
00:26:16
Speaker
I think yeah. some Some cultures are more verbally expressive and and ah communicative and and you have to like you have to do the inverse where people are like just ignoring like big emotions and big things where With my background and everything, like that just seems like the most stressful thing in the world. like How can you do that? If someone's really passionate about something, they're really loud like that's really important. That's a life or death thing. If you have that going on all the time, that would be really hard to live with. But if it's something that is a part of your culture, people would just do the opposite where they just kind of ignore a lot of stuff like that and just talking at each other. That wasn't a big deal. We weren't being serious. it was just we're just
00:27:02
Speaker
We're just shouting at each other. That's no big deal. you know i but I do not relate to that, but people do it. Yeah. um yeah even Even with the cultural differences, as you were saying that, I just had a thought. I still think this this applies because whether your reaction is to just be quiet about it and don't say anything, or it's to blow up and yell, I still think once that period is over,
00:27:30
Speaker
the least said as soon as spent it. Okay, maybe you had a blow up and you screamed at each other for 10 minutes. Okay, don't bring it up tomorrow. You know what I mean? Yeah, right. Because i think I think the principle still applies even if it's if it's more boisterous or or a different way or whatever, that continually dredging it up is gonna prevent the the healing. Yeah, that's a great point, yeah.
00:27:54
Speaker
I'm trying to think if there's there's anything else I wanted to say. I thought we've gone some really great directions with this one. um
00:28:04
Speaker
to And I keep, every time you talk, I'm like, okay, that's perfect. That's the last, that's the way to end it. So now you got one more to do it. One more last monologue here. Your final thoughts on this one.
00:28:17
Speaker
Um, yeah. Oh, okay. final thoughts on the spot
00:28:23
Speaker
We're just cutting paste something from earlier. It'll be great. Yeah. We'll just see if anyone notices. I say the same thing, but, um, yeah, this one, I mean, last thing I would say probably is this one can be hard because sometimes if you're still bothered by something, you do want to say more.
Discipline & Healing: Leaving the Scab Alone
00:28:40
Speaker
um And maybe you think it's going to be cathartic to to bring it up again or to rehash it or to make your last point. So sometimes it's not easy. Sometimes it might take a little bit of a a little bit of discipline to bite, bite your tongue and and not say the thing that you want to say. Um, but I do think that in many, many cases it's the right thing to do. Um, like we mentioned, it's not, not a hundred percent, but, um, quite often it's very, it's best to say very little or anything at all. If you, if something really needs to be addressed, say it, but then, but then move on with it and, um, and, uh,
00:29:20
Speaker
I mean, it's a they say you know reopening wounds, but it's it's I think it's a very apt analogy, whereas you know you have a kid, they get a scab and they just keep picking at it because they're a kid, and then it just it just doesn't ever heal, and then it leaves a really nasty scar.
00:29:36
Speaker
because they won't just leave it alone. And if they just leave it alone, put a bandage over, forget about it, it'll heal like nothing ever happened. So, all right, that was the last words. Yeah, it was perfect. Least said, soon as mended. Yeah. That was a good one
Episode Conclusion & Future Discussions
00:29:50
Speaker
though. Thanks, man. Thanks for picking that one. And thank you everybody for listening. We will be back at it again next week and thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time. All right, we'll see ya. Bye. There are only four things certain since social progress began.
00:30:17
Speaker
that after this is accomplished and the brave new world begins when all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sin as surely as water will wet us, as surely as fire will burn the gods of the copy of the idiot