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DSC: "Life, Itself" (s5e10) with Shereese (@SciFiSavage)
76 Plays7 days ago
ALL GOOD STREAMS must come to an end, and Star Trek: Discovery is no exception, despite putting Paramount Plus on the map. But is this final episode a fitting conclusion to Michael Burnham's and the crew of the Discovery's story? Bryan and Shereese investigate.
The grades begin at (33:24).
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Transcript
Introduction and Final Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
next on trek mary kill love talk calypso one last time let's fly i go to go in so if buy three left the room my real at night discovery is running out of time
00:00:26
Speaker
Discovery, do you read? You can hear me, I made it through the portal. And I cannot explain what I'm looking at right now.
Complexity and Engagement of Star Trek Discovery
00:00:46
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Charisse. Welcome to Trick or Kill, a Star Trek podcast that knows better than to challenge a Kelpie into a game of Ferengi Rummy. Well, we've reached the end. It's finally here, the series finale of Star Trek Discovery. Charisse, I'm so glad you've been along for this ride. I couldn't have done it without you. Kristen has never seen the show, and both of us go with me having to teach her the show and go through it.
00:01:10
Speaker
would have been an extra layer of frustration for everybody, I think. That's fair. and Because Star Trek Discovery is a complicated show, I think, is a fair way of assessing it from the outside looking in. And then even when you delve into it, it's kind of like, its rewards are based on your stick-to-itiveness.
00:01:29
Speaker
100%, and I think that's described any better than this episode. that's right like which actually Which I actually do like. I feel like this episode, and maybe it's a product of the time in which it was made, but this episode really feels so satisfyingly conclusive.
00:01:47
Speaker
that I was just like, oh man, I wish I could have gotten this for all
Story Arcs and Series Finale
00:01:50
Speaker
the shows. You know, but it's like, that's not how that's not how shows usually end. They just kind of, they end, but they want to leave the door open for like another show, just in case or spin off. But this was very much like goodbye to all and to all a good night. And that was just kind of sweet.
00:02:03
Speaker
Yeah, and then this is not the planned series finale again alleged I'm going to say allegedly which is more of a joke than an accusation because there's so much in this season and even in this episode before we get to the extra shooting that they did. That feels like very neatly.
00:02:23
Speaker
lines up with if we knew this was the end how would we what would we put in here or at the very least we're not sure but maybe so what are some things what are some teas we definitely want to make sure are crossed right there's definitely dotted uh that are in there which i appreciated because there is that idea of like it's one thing for the all these new shows to tie back to the previous era, the most popular eras of Star Trek to be like, to trust us, we know about Star Trek. We're referencing Spock. You know, like all the stuff that they do in all the other shows that there is something to like, okay, well, it's your show. So the idea that you're continuing your own characters or calling back to your own stuff.
00:03:05
Speaker
I really appreciate because it it just shows that they're like, okay, you are committed to this to the show you're
Production and Directing Highlights
00:03:10
Speaker
making. yeah We're talking about life itself. The title of the 10th and final episode of Star Trek Discovery's fifth and final season. This is also known as the ultimate episode. That's right. That's right. No longer the penultimate. It is the ultimate.
00:03:25
Speaker
Uh, episode 65 of 65, uh, 65 episode run spanning seven years. It premiered on Paramount plus may 30th, 2024, written together by Kyle Jarrow and Michelle paradise, the showrunner. And it was directed by Olatunde Osensami. I heard Sineko and Martin green give an interview with, um, on the decon chamber, which is Connor Trenear.
00:03:50
Speaker
And Dominic Keating, there we go. and um And she said his name very quickly. And so I was like, that's how you pronounce it. You have to say it very quickly. That's this that's the trick right there. Yes. um And she said it correctly, clearly, so she wasn't like trying to run through anything. It's like, that's the way to say it. If you slow down, that's where you get bogged down. ah But Olatonde Osensanmi has been the basically the producing director, he's been like a, not ah quite a showrunner, but basically the one responsible for the technical side of the show, bringing in new directors and familiarizing them with how to make it, handling the production in a lot of ways, like on the floor, because the showrunner is supposed to also oversee production too, but he's basically like a director who's in every department that goes into actually shooting the show.
00:04:39
Speaker
um So um an important figure. ah I think he, the last few seasons have been directing the finales anyway. So, you know, it falls to him, but not like as an wink, wink, we, it's not the finale, but maybe it is. It's like he handles the big episodes. This was a big episode.
00:04:54
Speaker
h Which memory alpha describes as trapped inside a mysterious alien portal that defies familiar rules of time, space, and gravity, Captain Burnham must fight Maul and the environment itself in order to locate the progenitor's technology and secure it for the Federation.
Battle Critiques and Off-Screen Action
00:05:10
Speaker
Meanwhile Booker puts himself in harm's way to help Burnham survive and Raynor leads the USS Discovery in an epic winner-takes-all battle against Breen forces.
00:05:19
Speaker
yeah And we're missing, and Culver puts himself in harm's way to help book and also to give himself something to do. Yes. I kind of feel like they're puffing up the book part of this. And theyre the the winner takes all battle against the Breen forces is also similarly. Yeah, because there was no, I mean, there was a battle. There was a battle. It's all happening off screen, though. We don't see the exchange of fire. You know what I mean? Like, there's just long shots of of all the space, trash, and debris going around these two black holes.
00:05:49
Speaker
and the discovery kind of swirling around. And then we cut to the ship, and then there's just fire shooting out of the walls, and the camera's shaking, and then they tell you something's happening off camera. It's very strange. And what they're not mentioning at all in this description is that Saru actually has a little mini storyline in this episode, where he's like... Action Saru. That's right. But Action Saru is seated on the shuttle, and he's having a Zoom with Primark to haul, trying to convince her to not send her fleet to where the current green dreadnought is that Discovery is having this winner-take-all battle with. And so it's all very... He's talking to someone we don't know, who's so far away we can't see, who's right maybe going to find it. We just learned about last episode, or like the episode before, with Raynor's backstory, and then... That's right. Okay. And then we're supposed to care about this character.
00:06:41
Speaker
If not for the previous leaves, I would have, because i I fuzz in and out sometimes, I would have missed, I'm like, oh, that's that's the one that was the cruel one on this planet. Good thing they mentioned that in the thing. But that but that is an interesting...
00:06:56
Speaker
concept because it's not ah paid off. It's just we're mentioning someone who has already mentioned to underscore how evil they are, even though we don't see them ever be evil. We don't like, it's enough. That's like another Primark's coming with a fleet of ships. And I still think that's fuzzy. And we don't want them to find out about the progenitor's tech. So we need to prevent them from going
Saru's Diplomatic Mission and Themes
00:07:20
Speaker
to this area of engagement, which is all very out there.
00:07:25
Speaker
What's the idea here? If there's a battle for who's controlling it, wouldn't one of the Primarchs that's competing for the role be happy that another one is entangled in a slog with the Federation? Off in the distance, why do they need to go investigate? It's like, oh, this is great. Now I can rise to the top. There's one fewer person competing for the role. Or they could come in and pull a Primarch dune or whatever that guy's name was, Rune, whatever it was, where they can come in and be like, they can show up and then destroy the Dreadnought and then blame it on the Federation, but also destroy the Federation ship, of course. right But then they could tell all the other Breen, look at this conflict where the Federation destroyed this Dreadnought, they're terrible. I mean, it's the same plan. yeah That's a much better plan than being like, let me investigate why you're so interested about these black holes. It's like, no, boom, blast Saru's ship, moving on, get to where the black holes are, blast both ships.
00:08:18
Speaker
Like, oh, look, there's technology, steal that too. And then go and tell the story. Like, if they're real bad guys. Yes. That's, that's what a real bad guy should do. They should come and be bad. Perhaps.
00:08:29
Speaker
this is a tie-in to, we didn't know this was gonna be the final season. So we wanted to set up that Primark to Hall. It was gonna be a threat later on. But then you'd get a whole nother season of Breen. I know. Do we want that? I don't think we want that. But the point is, is like, that seems like a trim you could have done once you knew the show was canceled.
00:08:50
Speaker
Because it's like what are you getting out of it other than maybe confusion? But I think it would have made more sense to keep the other Primark, Locke's uncle or whatever. Take out the episode where it was really stupid and he shows up, but like take that out. it be It would make more sense to keep that the bad guy and to have that battle come here. Like that battle that didn't really happen before because they just said,
00:09:14
Speaker
you know, they just negotiated their way out of it. That would have made more sense here, because at least that's a character we've been seeing consistently. It's connected to mall and lock like it would have had more tie in than to haul. So in my opinion, so in that in that way, this shows what discovery is all about. I kind of feel like this episode has a lot of discovery tropes or the house style that the show's developed over the years in that it feels this, especially what we're talking about, feels like some element of plotting and discovery is like, you know when a magician pulls handkerchiefs out of a hat? It just keeps going and they're all tied together and they just keep going. That's sometimes what watching an episode of Star Trek Discovery feels like. It's just, and then, and then, and then there's another handkerchief. Oh, another handkerchief. Ah, they keep going. ah so But they had to give something for Saru to do. And it it was kind of like what we said a few episodes ago. They wanted to try to do an episode where ah there's talking and there's no shots fired. And they show the power
00:10:10
Speaker
of negotiation and you know the the power of you can be ah a threat without firing a shot or using violence. and I think that's the entire point, although Saru is threatening them with violence. and so the the conversation Anyway, I'm saying all this because the Saru storyline actually gets more than what's in the description that Memory Alpha provided us. so Maybe Saru's storyline should have been there instead of Booker's.
00:10:35
Speaker
This isn't really a storyline. It's just kind of a beat, and it's a continuation of like, I love her. I must protect her. And then like you said, Culber's like, hey, who knows? I was inhabited by one of these things. Maybe one of these scientists. Maybe I could have, I know something. I have an important role to play. I don't know what it is, but I know what happened. I'm sure you have a playbook.
00:10:58
Speaker
He's Starbuck in the finale of Battlestar Galactica. He's totally Starbuck, except for he doesn't disappear at the end. That's right. I've i've completed my mission. It just disappears, and everyone's like, um, Dr. Culber? Hello?
00:11:11
Speaker
I remember watching that finale and Adam was like, Starbuck jumped the ship and I'm like, she knows where to go. That's what she's been hearing in her head. Oh, my God. It's wild, wild. Yeah, I remember watching it because I just watched it a few years ago with my friends. So I remember that that finale very well. We did a big we did a big thing in San Diego where we all came because it's friends from all over that we hadn't met in person. We met on the Internet. So we all came together in this big house and we watched the finale together. And I was like, what the actual F is going on here? Like.
00:11:41
Speaker
but that's neither here nor there. So exactly, Culbert is Starbuck and we love that for him because he did have a role to play that was very important and he couldn't explain it and that ties back to his Do we want to call it challenge? Questioning of science versus um what science can't detect.
Themes of Connection and Self-Discovery
00:12:00
Speaker
So it tied into something about something that he's been dealing with. So at least there's that. Would I say that that was like a conclusion or like a tied up loose end? I don't know, but it was connected to something. So there's that. You're saying this and it's reminded me of another element of the style of the show, which I think can sometimes impede on the actual dramatic moments.
00:12:23
Speaker
They really don't like other characters. telling them or guiding them directly. They like the characters discovering it on their own. They view demands, and I'm talking about the people who make the show, they seem to view demands or orders as like, ah don't tell me what to do, as like a negative. And they they really want people to come up, it's kind of like a weird, I guess it's like, an maybe it's an educational style they were all raised on of like, we want the kids to discover and learn on their own.
00:12:54
Speaker
But there is some element of like, book could have been like, you were inhabited by one of them. Why don't you come with me? And like, he could, it could have come from him instead of Culber just randomly being like, and he's like, that doesn't make sense. And he's like, none of this makes sense. We're dealing with, you know what I mean? Like, but the but the idea that he's on a quest. And so all of the steps of the quest have to be self-driven instead of like the um emotional urgency, which is irrational, but Book could have been like, I need help because we have to save the captain. And I have to save the woman I love, whatever. But instead, it just comes out of nowhere. Culbert was like, and I'm coming too. And Stamets is like, what? And then Culbert is like.
00:13:34
Speaker
It's basically a repeat of last episode when Adira was like, I'm going on the away mission. That's right. And it's like, no. And Culver's like, wow, it was just yesterday that I was doing crazy things. Oh, and look, it's also tomorrow. yeah it's it's The thing is, is if if this idea of we don't do anything alone, we're all connected, we all need to work together.
00:13:55
Speaker
but we're all on our own paths of discovery, self-discovery. I'm sure that's that is baked into the show, and I'll talk about that more later. I still think it's a weird idea of like, well, we're together, but we're all doing this alone, but in the same space. And it's just like that the lack of crossover sometimes of these storylines that's organic ah is very strange sometimes. That's just... Yeah, it's only for love that they connect. You know what I mean? Like, if Book and Culver have been connected from the very beginning of the season, remember? Culver comes in and checks on him and is kind of nosing into his business. Yeah. And he walks up and he gives him a big hug when Book comes back on the ship and he thinks everyone hates him for, like, yes working with the bad guy last season. And Culver is the one who's like, bestie! And you're like, oh, they're bad. So you said paying off his story. But I'm like, it would have paid off their relationship in this season. yeah You You're right. You're right about that.
00:14:47
Speaker
I think that there's, I think it's exactly what you said. It's self-discovery and the importance of connection. So I think that's, it's the two morals of the story they're trying to get across in every episode is that we need one another to survive, but we're all on our own journey. Like we can't live in one another's head except for in the case of Culber.
00:15:02
Speaker
I'm worried he had a troll living in his head. That's right. um So yeah, that's a really good point, though, because they could have totally had like a Geordi data thing going on where they could have done a done, you know, this cool friendship that you didn't see coming, but they've got these counterbalanced points. That could have been something really interesting to play on. But They had a lot of stuff going on this season. They certainly did, but I mean that we're literally talking about you're flipping a line. You know what I mean? Like you're not, you're just changing it from anyway. It's just, these are the things that bump out of like, okay, I'm picking up what you're putting down. And then the next episode is like, but what we put down is different now. Or like, or like check your hand. Was that the card you picked up? And it's not, it's a different guard. What? happened to what
00:15:45
Speaker
why are you playing games with me like sorry we had weird shoot days and we had to change some elements so but so you asked me to watch calypso this the short trek which i had not seen before was that filmed before this then Oh, yes. So short treks was a space between seasons one and two, I believe, possibly two and three of Discovery. And it's basically this was peak streaming wars. And they were like, well, it's a lot of money and a lot of time to shoot a full season. Why don't we give you so a little extra money and a little extra time to shoot these literal short treks of varying lengths?
00:16:24
Speaker
Use the standing sets and populate them, however, tell whatever stories you can. But they get off format. They do a couple of animated ones. And it's just basically a chance for the secret hideout people to flick their muscles and tell short little Star Trek stories that are kind of you know pure comedy. ah It's almost like fan fix, basically.
00:16:45
Speaker
Except allegedly these are canon, but I, Star Trek fans submit to you that they don't need to be. There's a lot of wackiness in them, like wonkiness in them. And I think it's strange. So Calypso winds up being the the most famous one, the most popular one, and quite frankly, the best one. um I think there's like the animated ones, the animation looks pretty cool. Michael Giacchino directed one of them. It's more of like a Pixar farce type of thing. The other one's more of a,
00:17:13
Speaker
like ah like a fairy tale for a little kids. And then they have like an outright comedy one that's that's got H. John Benjamin as an an obnoxious person. It's not very Star Trek at all. There's one about kids bullying each other that like is tangentially related to Star Trek Picard season one. That's pointless. And so Calypso is like, ah Michael Chabon is is you know a Pulitzer Prize winning novelist and a famous American writer. And he loves Star Trek. ah He wound up being the showrunner for Star Trek Picard season one. And as Kristen and I will get into when we discuss that season in March, it didn't go well for him. But before that that bombing out or failure, he did this short trek and told the story of Calypso, which is, of course, taken from The Odyssey. And so this was just using the Discovery Standing sets
00:18:05
Speaker
the showrunners or the producers of Discovery vowed to connect the show by the end of the series to Calypso. And they kept their promise? They kept their promise, but in in law, but in it practice, very wonky as you see that they had to go and set it up so that The Discovery A has the A removed. It gets like refit down to how it looked in season one or season two but to match what's in Calypso. And then they had to kind of like do things to make sure it matched with Calypso. And then just Burnham goes and and leaves Zora yeah in the middle of nowhere to wait for a thousand years. So they didn't really have it thought out. And as Sneak when Martin Green mentions, she said in the Deacon Chamber episode, they thought they were gonna go seven years.
00:18:55
Speaker
That's all the other Star Trek shows had gone. This was a popular enough show. Paramount Plus really believed in it because it helped build Paramount Plus. So they're admitted to it. And then, you know, the the rug got pulled out from under them is how she set it up. So it knowing that, then I guess they thought, will we'll start working on how to tie these two things together next year or the year after. We don't have to deal with that. Instead, they're like, nope.
00:19:23
Speaker
you have three days to shoot an epilogue or a coda, which originally started at 12 pages. so maybe But and then it went down to nine pages. So maybe in those three pages, there was some more explanation.
00:19:34
Speaker
who All right. ah One concept and theme I wanted to talk about before we get into the grades, ah because I had actually had two on our rundown here, but I think we're going to talk about the other one more, and that was discovery
Visuals vs Storytelling Quality
00:19:46
Speaker
as a project. In our very first episode, i asked I wondered what the history, when people look back at discovery, what will they remember? What will be the thing that sticks out about it? And I think it's going to be Saniqua Martin Green, but I mean, I'm interested to hear your perspective on that. You don't have to answer it right now.
00:20:03
Speaker
Oh, I completely agree. I completely agree. It's always the captain. It's all well, except for I guess with Spock, but it's almost always the captain, right? Like the captain's the heartbeat of the show. The captain sets the tone for the show. The captain is the character we're all supposed to connect with emotionally. And then it's like we connect with the other bridge people based on that character. So, Kirk is Kirk. Like, people who are not Trekkies, who don't know anything about Star Trek, know Captain Kirk. Like, they know who that is. If they don't know anything else, they know that phrase. And I know that because I was watching this video of somebody just walking down the street asking random people questions about Star Trek. And that was like the one thing that everybody was like, I don't know, Captain Kirk, is that a thing? Right? so
00:20:44
Speaker
And then once you're into the, you know, once you've watched the shows, then people are like in love with Spock or whatever. So I think Sinequa Martin Green, not just being this first black female captain, but also her as an act, as an actor, she's just masterful. And I think a lot of the concepts is is very, very um of the time, like it's very of the time. um It's very much, you know, coming out of COVID and coming out of the pandemic and remembering that we like people and people are important and it's all about connection and community and like like all those themes that are discovery, which is basically everything that Captain Burnham says to her son in the last five minutes of the episode or whatever. All of that is what I think people are gonna remember. They're gonna remember Sneaker Martin Green, they're gonna remember connection togetherness,
00:21:31
Speaker
whatever individuality and they're gonna remember, um I think they're gonna remember how beautiful this show is. I mean, I've never seen something more gorgeous. I think people are gonna remember like just the, there's something about the the beauty of the show that is captivating, that like captivates my imagination and really brings brings me in.
00:21:51
Speaker
So that's my thoughts. Beautiful artwork. It's like great um concept art that's executed flawlessly. And then the stories that prop up that art is usually not the equivalent. but No, no, no. It's not it's not masterful storytelling. yeah But it's beautiful. Like a lot of like, you know, a lot of big cinematic blockbusters. We'll see. This is just common, right? You'll see these big blockbusters and you go and you're like, oh, my gosh, it's so beautiful. But this is the stupidest movie I've ever seen. Or like the plot makes no sense or the characters are really dumb. But it was cool. And I can think of several movies off the top of my head where after I watched the movie, I thought I would rather watch that on mute.
00:22:30
Speaker
Like, I would rather watch that whole thing again, just not hearing the stupid things they're saying and just looking at how pretty it is or the cool explosions or whatever. I'm not saying discovery is that bad, but I am saying while the storytelling is not necessarily masterful, I think people are going to remember how beautiful it is, how compelling it is, because that level is just it's not what you would equate with television. It's unprecedented for Star Trek, for sure. And for TV, for the most part, there might be a couple of shows that can rival it, but very few. um I would also say the hugging and the crying. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Me and my friends turned the crying into a drinking game, which is funny because I don't even drink, but it was like season three where I was like, made you drink yeah yeah it was like every time a character bursts into tears, take a shot. Oh, there's another one. that There's another one.
00:23:17
Speaker
And then i've said i've said I've said this many times in the podcast, so I won't go deep. and i'm But I'm interested to hear your perspective. um I'm a weirdo when it comes to series finales. I will watch series finales of shows I've never seen in episodes. might know about but like something about serious finales and finality and saying goodbye like I'm always interested to see how shows do that because it's it's actually kind of rare that shows know that it's going to be their final episode and and of course we're saying that this episode didn't know but then they were able to go back and shoot some stuff so it's like
00:23:52
Speaker
the additional material is them knowing, but I will drop it on any show. Big Love is like one I, read not recent, but it's one I thought of where it comes to mind, where I'd never seen an episode of that. That's like Bill Paxton is like ah a Mormon guy with multiple wives.
00:24:09
Speaker
It was an HBO show, exactly. And I never watched it, but I watched the finale and I know how it ends. House, I loved that show for its first five or six seasons. I dropped out and I didn't watch the final season at all. Came back and watched the finale. That was not good. And so I was like, I'm glad I didn't watch the show. But I will come back and I want, you know, whenever Grey's Anatomy goes off the air in the 32nd century. That's what she's doing. She's sending Zora to wait for Grey's Anatomy to end. Because that show is never gonna end.
00:24:39
Speaker
Nope. Anyway, but I'll be there with Betty Boop. She's going to be watching. That's right. That's right. ah So I don't know. Do you have that fascination with TV or not? I'm the exact opposite. I hate finales because at least in general, like if it's a show I really love, hate finales meaning I hate that it's ending. um I don't watch finales of shows I haven't seen. I don't read the last chapter of books either. I'm i'm like, I don't open my presents before Christmas day. I'm very much like, i want I want the surprise to be like built up as high as possible. So that way, even if the gift's not that great, at least I got to enjoy the experience of the buildup, right? um So,
00:25:16
Speaker
i I like the finale for for TNG, which is a show I love. Like I hate watching that finale. I think I've only seen it probably three times ever in my bajillions of rewatches. I've seen it like 30 times. I just don't like I don't want the show. So when I'm doing my rewatch and I head towards the finale, I like stop and then I go back to season three and then I go again and then I stop and I go all the way back. Like so that way it never ends. um I do really love the finale of Voyager, though. Like it feels it feels really satisfying to me. So I like it because I feel like it's a really good episode.
00:25:46
Speaker
but But in general, I don't like that things are ending. However, I feel like with this finale, I really enjoyed it. It felt like if I was a big fan of this show and I had been watching from day one and I tuned in every week, this finale probably would feel just like perfect. like this Thank you for letting me know what happens to these characters.
00:26:07
Speaker
Now I know, and now I can go to sleep knowing. It's not just like, and then they go off and and into and do whatever, duh, duh, duh. You get a lot of like what happens, and you get enough to know that everyone gets a happy ending, which is not necessary, but it's nice, because like you're making up the story anyways. So why can't they all have happy endings except for the ship?
Epilogue and Visual Effects
00:26:30
Speaker
All right, so I have some production perspective, some notes from Memory Alpha about this one.
00:26:35
Speaker
um The additional 16-minute epilogue was added to the episode after Paramount decided not to renew Discovery for another season. It was filmed in late April, 2023, five months after production wrapped on the episode. And I just have a thought, though, because they had a 12-page script. They had to cut it down to nine. They had a little bit of money. And I just think it was very funny how many visual effects they they used anyway. I'm like, did we need the digital deer?
00:27:05
Speaker
Alien deer. Do we need all those creatures? I mean, we didn't hear at all. we It's a beautiful planet. We get it. That's you're trying to sew up that Even book is in a good place, right? Because that's the last we see a book in the in the end So he's with the world with ale with creatures around him So I guess that makes some sense. But also it's like I don't know how much those effect shots cost but it's surely If we're talking about emotion versus spectacle again, discovery would always side with the spectacle. So yeah, I just thought it was interesting Kovac identifies himself as Agent Daniels of the USS Enterprise and other places. This is a reference to the mysterious time traveler and temporal agent from 31st Century Daniels who appeared in Star Trek Enterprise for multiple episodes.
00:27:49
Speaker
the Did you remember remember that? Did you know that? I have not seen Enterprise. So no, except for, you know, a few episodes from the first season. So I wrote that down in my notes. I was like, why is this significant? I get that this is an Easter egg. I get that we' I'm supposed to be like clutching my pearls when he says it. But I have no idea who this is. I'm watching this in the middle of the night and the sigh I let out was so loud it might have woken the neighbor.
00:28:11
Speaker
so because the shoehorning in of references to other treks is always like unnecessary. It's like, it better be worth it. It's like, this was not worth it. ah First of all, what a glow up for k Crewman Daniels. Kovac, first of all, David k Cronenberg, a famous filmmaker in his own right,
00:28:32
Speaker
but great head of hair. He looks great. But Daniel's an enterprise, looks like the the substitute science teacher, this balding kind of like nondescript guy, which I'm sure they cast intentionally because they're like, well, we don't want our time travel agent sticking out and and drawing questions. So he looks like every time he's in a scene with Scott Bagula and he's in a lot of them. And he's like,
00:28:58
Speaker
got something over Scott Bakula. It's like Scott Bakula could put a fist through this guy. He could yell this guy to death. What is this little mincing little wimp? And it's like, so the fact that it's David Cronenberg now, and it's like he realized I got to either restore my appearance or do some cosmetic surgery to look like a dude. ah So that was that was funny. It was funny that they made him Agent Daniels. I'm like, I don't think that character deserves this honor.
00:29:25
Speaker
but being david griberg That the cell A got, that's that's what it was. That's right. And then all the little trinkets that he's taken, grave robbing is what I call it.
00:29:37
Speaker
Among the items on display in COVID's office. That stuff was probably in the freakin' Daystrom Institute Museum or whatever, and now that Earth is, whatever Earth is, maybe he took it fair and square, maybe he protected it. Bottle of Chateau Picard, Jordy LaForge's original visor, Benjamin Sisko's baseball, which is bullshit, because that thing wasn't scuffed up at all. Someone went to a sporting supply store, bought a baseball, put it out of the box. They didn't even bother to weather it even a little bit.
00:30:05
Speaker
Very annoying. I'm like, that's a baseball on a stand. I recognize what you're trying to do. And another thing and that that's just whether they shut up a card. Yes, they sure did. Put some dirt on it. Sure did. But not the baseball.
00:30:20
Speaker
And then Catherine Janeway's microscope. I didn't notice that. Yeah, I didn't notice that either. But Kovach is just trying to connect him throughout Star Trek history. And it's like he might as well have been Brad Boimler if he's that obsessed with the other shows. Which is very true, because I thought that's kind of weird. Like if I was in Starfleet, I would know about the flagship and the people on the flagship and stuff like that. But to have like Geordi's visor is weird.
00:30:47
Speaker
It's super weird. It's not weird as a fan. Like for us, for super fans, for humans on earth right now, it's like, oh, I love the show. I love Jordy. But for like, for Daniels, that's weird.
00:30:59
Speaker
We're going to talk about this at the end a little bit, but just think for anyone who's unaware, the last scene of the episode where Burnham goes back to Discovery and they've like downgraded it, ah it's return of its original confi configuration sent into Deep Space on a Red Directive mission to wait for Kraft is a reference to Star Trek's short Trek's Calypso in which Discovery and Zora, after being abandoned for nearly a thousand years, are found by Kraft.
00:31:24
Speaker
who is a character, a soldier, played by the very attractive Aldous Hodge, let's be honest here. And he's, and and I think, and basically they they have like a Wally and Eve relationship, if you've never seen that short trek. Right, or he gets to he gets to kind of cast away. He gets to kind of do that role because he's just, it's just him playing against a voice, which he may or may not hear while he's acting.
00:31:51
Speaker
This episode's opening sequence features visual elements from previous season's opening sequences, I'm sure. There are people, it's like the Game of Thrones opening, that are very cognizant of the details in those opening title sequences. And as much as I think I am a visual person, sometimes when it's just like too much and it's just constant, I just kind of like zone out. I'm like, okay, I recognize that. Oh, they're building that part of Westeros, whatever.
00:32:16
Speaker
Or when they're doing the drawings on Discovery, I'm like, okay, yep, that's a phaser. Oh, there's its component parts. But there are people who are, you know, there's, they're clocking it, they're fans, they know exactly everything that's been used. So good for them. i'm Cute. I skip that. Yeah, skip all the intros. So I had no idea until I read that right now.
00:32:35
Speaker
ah This episode made the list of Nielsen's top 10 most watched streaming shows from May 27, 2024 to June 2, 2024.
Viewership and Cultural Impact
00:32:44
Speaker
So I mentioned this in our variant when we did Red Directive and Under the Twin Moons, our very first one. like Star Trek Discovery is in the streaming top 10 regularly when it was on. So the Star Trek shows on Paramount+. plus do well. We'll find out what Lower Decks is going to do. I don't think there's been a Lower Decks season. Maybe there has been. I can't remember. It'll be interesting to see what happened with Lower Decks ratings because we're actually recording this just before it premieres its final season. So with all that in mind, shall we get into the grades? Let's do it. All right. So great scenes.
00:33:17
Speaker
So I have one, which was Burnham's Heart
Series Themes and Burnham's Conversation
00:33:20
Speaker
to Heart with her son, Leto, at the end. And I don't know if it's, it's not my favorite scene that I've ever seen, but i at first I didn't have any great scenes. so But then I added this one because I felt like it that that whole talk between the two of them really summed up the entire show. And I like that, especially for someone who's been in and out of the show. I'm like, okay, cool, thanks. And it's funny too, because I'm usually the person who hates moral of the stories. Like I hate it when,
00:33:47
Speaker
The writers are like telling me what I need to learn or what they think I should take away from it. But I actually liked it in this sense because if you're going to do a moral of the story, this makes sense. A mother giving her son advice when he's about to take command of a ship for the first time. This makes sense. It's not just like you know, Picard and data in the observation lounge, talking about life and its meaning because of the alien species they just met. And you're like, what? Why are you guys? Why are you guys in here? Like, it's not like that this this felt really organic. So that's mine. How about you?
00:34:19
Speaker
I'm with you. I didn't actually have any great scenes, which isn't to say that there weren't good scenes or good moments that I appreciated, but i but I'm putting us in here because I feel like it'd be wrong to, in the finale of a show, not have a great scene.
00:34:36
Speaker
um because there was a lot of just people talking at each other. So there's like not a lot of dramatic, there was conflict in like, this person needs to punch this person to get to this other part where she did this person, but it wasn't like all that interesting. So I guess you said that that scene summed up the show, the one you picked. I'm picking this is what sums up the show, at least for me. And that's when she's remembering, I think their last day on the discovery where they're all hugging and crying.
00:35:04
Speaker
hu which was a re which is a pickup, additional material that they shot, and really blew a hole in my theory that Tig Notaro shot all of her scenes ah separately from everyone and got dropped in into every episode. She was literally there, and I couldn't believe it, because I'm like, I was so sure. Have you ever noticed in all of Jet Reno's scenes, it's like she's rarely sharing a frame with other characters?
00:35:30
Speaker
So I always just assume that like they block shot her all of her scenes for a season in like a week, and then they just dropped her in. And like when they're shooting with the other characters that she'd be talking to, it's like, takes this tennis ball right here. Just look right here. That's where she's going to be. ah So i just when she was there and they were all hugging, I thought that was nice. But i mean it's like it's what you said. It's a mother to a son. That's what justifies it and makes it relevant and give it weight. I i feel like.
00:36:00
Speaker
like the cast saying goodbye and hugging on a set we've seen it before and I'm I'm totally fine with it in this moment that Burnham would do that whoops that Burnham would do that and it's like we're far we're meeting this woman later in her life the the Vulcan exterior has been cracking and it's it's gone all the way and we see her as a very warm individual when we get that flashback so I was totally fine with it and I hugging and crying, like I said, i like that is one takeaway from the show. And if it marries two things, them saying goodbye to the show itself, and them saying goodbye to each other for the space of their lives. i thought And then the fans saying goodbye to the show. It reminded me of, like when I saw it instantly, it reminded me of the scene from Lord of the Rings where all the hobbits find out that Frodo's okay in Rivendell, and they each, one by one, comes in and go, Frodo! In slow motion, and he goes, sick!
00:36:52
Speaker
And slow motion and they're like And they're like laughing and crying and Gandalf is like how great or whatever and the scene goes on for like 12 minutes Like he's yeah, he's okay guys. He's okay. I get it. We're all happy I kind of felt that in this scene where it was like it's I felt the exact same emotions actually I was like, this is lovely and also how many minutes are we still we're still yeah okay. All right Well, cuz you did the group hug, but now you have to do the individual and there's a big crew. Okay, I That's why I'm saying it's perfectly discovery. It's so, I mean, it's Star Trek Picard season two, a season we've killed just to reiterate. It's an awful season of television. Don't watch it. yeah But it ends with Picard and Q hugging each other, which like, have you watched the show? Do you know these characters? It doesn't, none of this, it's all false. It's all like,
00:37:42
Speaker
like Pablum, it's like what you think should happen and yeah because it's drama. And it's like, no, it's not these characters at all. This one, it's like, perfect. Of course they would. Yes. yeah Yes. but Yes. I agree. they They need very little provocation to hug and cry. Right. No, this is exactly what I mean. They would hug and cry for anything. But especially now, if this is your last day on the ship, this is exactly what they would do. That scene might have taken place as soon as Burnham was back on board.
00:38:07
Speaker
Like, you know, in the, in the, in the proper finale, they rescued her. yeah she's like yeah each know what he hugs Each and every person on the bridge while things are still exploding and on fire. That's right. ah Best Trek tropes.
00:38:23
Speaker
So I have three. um And my first one, which is the ticking clock, that is in best tropes and it's in worst tropes for this episode.
Sci-Fi Tropes and Effectiveness
00:38:32
Speaker
So yeah in best tropes, it's um I did like when they were like to haul and the brain will arrive in 60 minutes. So like the fleet's coming in 60 minutes. That's our clock. I was like, OK, that makes sense. It takes time to get there. They can't jump or whatever. So that's your time to like get in, get out and figure it out. Like that was cool. um But I also had it in worst tropes because it kept They kept adding to that. They kept at just layering in the, oh, and the radiation only lasts for six minutes. Oh, and the green ship is already prepared. Oh, and they just kept layering on the ticking clock and I was just like, pick a lane. Um, and then the other best Trek trope was killer radiation. Classic. That's what I wrote in my notes. Killer radiation is classic. Whenever they pull that out, I'm like, I buy it. And then the third one was let's explode the plasma to destroy the enemy vessels. Like that's been done a couple of times and i actually like that one.
00:39:23
Speaker
It's just it's fun to look at. Um, I put, this is like a really good trap trope. Like if I'm to rank them, it's probably my top 10, but narrating a journey through a strange realm. So Spock in the original series does it. The immunity syndrome was the first one that comes to mind. He definitely does it in the motion picture where he's cataloging. He's telling, he's leaving a log for like, I'm going into Veger. I'm going to see what this is all about. I'm going to report what I'm seeing here. Uh,
00:39:54
Speaker
And Data does it in time zero. I'm sure you didn't like that episode. But remember, he they can't see him, but he's just... I love time zero. It's Data. Oh, okay. he They can't see him, but they can hear his voice and he's like literally in the room with them. yeah And then he gets abducted. There's no city in eating what appears to be souls. And now... Data? Data, are you there? Oh no, we've got to go in after him. That's right. ah But I love that it's it's like a scientific thing you would do that and the fact that they're she's Communicating it because she thinks she's maybe sending this message to Voyager, but if or sorry to discovery But if nothing else she's leaving, him you know, she's a log. Yeah, keep me long. So I loved it I just did' a good one it's not a great scene though because like nothing she's saying is all that interesting I just love but it really is it's just like rare just telling us what's going on. But this is
00:40:45
Speaker
But it fits. It makes sense, like what you're saying, it makes sense in the universe that they're sitting telling us, I'm walking into a room right now. I'm opening the door. You're like, mm-hmm. This is the double-edged sword of having a $15 million dollars an episode budget, and as you said, making one of the most beautiful TV shows ever. Because the old series and other dramas, they would be like, well, we can leave stuff to the imagination because we don't have the budget to cover it. Right. And sometimes you will get more out of people imagining what this place could be like with very few descriptions. Like, here that was better just imagined.
00:41:15
Speaker
Here they can just show everything and they don't have to. um They can imagine it ah separately and pre-visit and do all that stuff and spend more time on that. So I think it works for and against them because it certainly looks kind of impressive until you realize she's just standing and staring at a wall of screens.
00:41:34
Speaker
you know it's like she's in like a like a 20-foot space and the rest of it is kind of like does it match I don't know but it's anyway it's still a great trope I'm I don't need them to do it a lot more than they do it yeah but it she is a like the perfect uh discovery character could you imagine Tilly doing this uh so you could probably do it and it would be fine but like Burnham is great yeah um And then the other one I have, I think I want to try to label these into their own thing so people know right away what I'm talking about. Theoretically, it is possible. And the that is Rainer pitches jumping the Breen Dreadnought using ah the spore drive and the detachable thrusters. And they're like, that's impossible. Well, wait a minute. Theoretically. Now, I didn't like all that nonsense, but I like the concept of like, can we do something
00:42:22
Speaker
That's so outrageous. And they're like, well, theoretically, it's possible. I mean, Dax and O'Brien figure out a way to move the space station in the premiere of Deep Space Nine to move it closer to the wormhole. It's a massive space station. So it's like it's not unprecedented in Star Trek history that you could do something, move something massive. And it's a good use of discoveries. ah It separates the saucer to get it out of the way, but also its thrusters are detachable. These are all good uses of randomness, like why are the thrusters detachable? Who knows?
00:42:50
Speaker
It doesn't matter who. It's cool. Also, for this episode, it's like that is a series finale kind of idea. Yes. You know what I mean? like If that's suddenly in their arsenal for season six and season seven, it's like they could do that a lot more. And would that be as special as doing it here? And I really like that. So those are my two worst trek tropes.
00:43:10
Speaker
You kind of already touched on one. Yep, I already touched on the the ticking clock. And then the second one, which is a very discovery, worst trope is heart to heart at the wrong time.
Personal Conversations Under Pressure
00:43:19
Speaker
Which I'm going to put all the heart to hearts in this category, except for the one between Burnham and Lido, which was quite appropriate. But all the other ones, it was like, buddy, like, yeah it just, you know, things are exploding. We've got 30 seconds left. And it's like, Colburn stamens are like, so I really feel like I need to go on this trip, babe. I mean, it's just something inside my heart, you know? And you just see the clock like tick, tik tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.
00:43:46
Speaker
I mean, do you remember last month when I told you, what are we talking about? Get on the shuttle, go, go, go save Burnham, go do something. Like everybody should be doing something. No one should be standing and listening to this conversation. Everyone should be physically moving their bodies to save something. but So I labeled all that, like I agreed with you on what your best and worst was. but I put it as time has no meaning.
00:44:08
Speaker
because three minutes, they had three minutes to execute this. Let's jump the dreadnought with our spore drive, three minutes. And as you're saying, like they have to get on the shuttle quite quite urgently. um So I agree with, I'm with you. And in the three minutes, when he's like, you've got three minutes till he's like two and a half, you're like, or something like that. And you're like, okay, it's not even a full three minutes, but yeah. And then the second, the third um worst trope, which is also,
00:44:36
Speaker
a discovery worst trope that they painted themselves into was the Breen to haul, the Breen fall for a simple bluff. So this is our second time seeing that. And it's just very disappointing, honestly, for them as bad guys. I'm just, yeah I'm just underwhelmed by their, by their evilness. It's a problem. It's across all the shows that the bad guys are. So, so wimpy. And I'm sure people would bring up the original series in Next Generation and DC9 where there are certainly examples of that. And I kind of think, well, because you have fewer episodes, actually you have a greater reason to make sure that doesn't happen.
00:45:16
Speaker
Yeah, and also, it's a serial. So you can yeah you could explore things. It's not just like they pop up and they disappear within 45 minutes. So you really got to figure out. yep And you have to beat them and resolve it. Totally agree. but And even as a video game villain, it's still, as to go back to my recurring theme, that this is a video game, which is not a worst trick joke. But like it is interesting that Michael Burnham, when she gets into the portal, she's in a suddenly in a bunch of warp zones.
00:45:42
Speaker
but She's like, different levels yeah that she has got to fight and jump through. um Yeah, that's that's good. I think just the limp villain is a good worst trek trope that they have. I guess I'm gonna put it in here, because I think this is another discovery trope. This is the, and then and then and then, which I already mentioned with the handkerchief thing, but I don't know how else to put this, but when she meets this progenitor,
00:46:09
Speaker
It's everything the progenitor says to her is like, Pablum it's empty empty sentiment it's like hallmark cards for people in a struggle session, it's like very 2010s therapy talk in a way that's very empty. And it's like you go through all of this.
00:46:28
Speaker
And this that's it. and And it's not even contextualized as Burnham being like, that's it. It's actually contextualized like, I'm meeting God and God is telling me all the billions of things that happened but to happen for me to get here and all my life experiences. And it's actually like, no, that's not actually what this technology is. It's supposed to be like things are instantaneous. I'm ignoring how this like contradicts the chase, even though it thinks it's adding to the chase.
00:46:57
Speaker
For the minute, this technology is ridiculous. This technology is the Genesis device. And that is not what, um that's not what they did. They seeded life. They just put the elements for life to be born on other planets that looked like them, humanoids. Totally different than what they're saying of like, pull a lever and a clone pops out, which is literally what they're saying here. But then everything she's telling her about why people, how people find meaning and all this other stuff. I felt like, ah have you ever seen all the President's Men? It's one of my favorite movies. no
00:47:29
Speaker
Okay, but it's basically Woodward and Bernstein investigating the whole ah break-in at the RNC, the Nixon scandal. Do you remember any of that, ah Watergate? yeah yeah So they keep coming to their editor with facts, with information and interviews and people they talk to. And like he looks at it, he's looking at one of their stories and he goes, you haven't got it. And he just says, you got to keep working on it. It's not, it's not there yet. What you think you have, you don't have. And when I was watching that scene with Virginia, I'm like, they haven't got it. They had an idea. Like when we get to this moment, what is she going to say? And then it's like,
00:48:06
Speaker
I don't know, but we should add this element of we didn't invent this technology. so Yeah, I actually I actually like that. I like that part because I was like, oh, because then we then they they're not being like, yes, we are your creators, you know, instead, they're just like, oh, we don't know either. So they they kind of that's a dot there, dot, dot, dot.
00:48:26
Speaker
but That's their dot dot dot on top of their dot dot dot. It's like we got to this moment. We didn't quite know how to land it. So we're going to make sure we have this other thing in here to keep it interesting. So we don't ever have to answer that question. Because, yeah, so it's just it just I guess a letdown is sort of the you have so many elements. It is part of the and then and then and then. So and then they burn them fights her way to the progenitor and then the progenitor tells her, well, we're not We're not really the retailers after all. And then we can't actually bring people back to life. so And then this is no different than just a copy machine. This is all stuff that they could do in the 23rd century, 24th century. There's nothing actually special about this technology, except it affords you access to like a cool AR wall and you can like portal in. which Who was that species in in the next generation that we found out about that had the portals?
00:49:20
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. Iconians or something? Iconians, thank you. Hey, we've got this technology that you have. Also, we have a bunch of Iconian gateways. I don't know if you think that's cool. That you don't have. Yeah, that you don't have. So maybe it's all under the villain trope of the big bad or the big thing. And then for Discovery, it's very rarely. They're always trying to tie it to like, yes.
00:49:48
Speaker
The journey was what you went through and what you learned from it. It's never the destination that matters. It's like the destination should matter. One of these times. They should both matter. They should definitely both. I'm very much a destination kind of girl. um The journey is all is something I have had to learn and continually learn to appreciate. But if the destination doesn't matter, then the journey doesn't matter, in my opinion. I didn't know what Burnham's journey was this season. And I also feel like it was resolved.
00:50:19
Speaker
In the previous episode, like it seemed like she and Book were pretty firm on where they're at. And so in this episode, her line is basically like, I need to get back to my friends. I can't dilly-dally here. And also, she another thing that they tend to do is they're presented with big ah questions. And in the moment, these characters who are like,
00:50:40
Speaker
all the other characters tell us, you're confident and smart and brilliant. And then it's like, here's a big, do you have an answer to this question? Like, whoa, I need a couple days to think about it. well it's It's constant. It's just like, wait, Burnham, what was all these tests that you were going through? If in this moment you're asked a question of what you want to do with this, you don't have an answer, because you've been so overwhelmed by seeing its power, you're suddenly not in a position. I don't know. It's a very strange, it's The end with Burnham, she's much more firm and certain and comfortable. And here she's acting certain and comfortable, and then they didn't put words in her mouth that conveyed that she is Michael Burnham in this moment. It just conveyed of like, wow, you're talking to God. And God is saying like, what do you want to do this power I'm about to hand you? And she just kind of stammers her way. And doesn't and it doesn't.
00:51:29
Speaker
what i'm saying is the character is not then reflecting like i choked or wow i didn't think i'd be overwhelmed by this moment that she's like confidently saying wow that's too big of a responsibility for one person i can't do it so what do you get out of it what was the point of this journey if at the end of it is like you have all this power given to you and you don't want it you know yeah what are you going to do with it you know and it's just very strange so that's why i'm like they haven't got it they didn't quite figure out what this all is cool coalescing what's all leading to.
Cosplay Potential and Costumes
00:51:58
Speaker
And all right, most cosplayable character or moment? So I have three. The first is the just the away team suit that they wear. I said this in the, I think it was the whatever the episode was when they were being chased by the giant eyeballs. I love that outfit, like their little way team suits. I love those. um Then the second one is Saru and Tarina at their wedding. I will take either of their outfits any day of the week because they looked so good.
00:52:24
Speaker
both both of those outfits. And then the third one I put was Burnham's, was future Burnham's uniform. um I also really liked that. But of the three I mentioned, for sure, the wedding outfits are the ones that like, oh, I would love to just rock either of those. I think the digital deer is mine. I want to see someone try to put that together. It'd be pretty cool, I bet. Yeah. Now it's time for the line must be drawn. Great lines.
00:52:53
Speaker
So I have a lot of lines. You have one? Yeah. Why don't you go first then? Computer, how much more of this?
00:53:04
Speaker
When she's hanging on in the hurricane level. yeah Yeah, with the hurricane force winds that blow sideways and up. We had a serious hurricane ah very recently, obviously everyone knows. At the time of this recording, yeah. Hurricane Milton, obviously. And so the kind of.
00:53:23
Speaker
yeah cavalier approach to like, I could use the gusts of wind to super jump out of here. It's like, in retrospect, it's like kind of tough, but it's also like silly in the moment. Anyway, that was why I just, her saying computer how much more of this in that specific way. of I've asked myself that many times while watching an episode of Star Trek Discovery.
00:53:47
Speaker
Yeah, it was fun to watch though. um So I have a lot. So one of them I liked was when Burnham told Mal when she said, I need you to trust me, not the Federation me, I give you my word. I like that because I felt like it was like a woman to woman moment because she was saying, I know what it's like to lose every everything, but I got my person back. I'm going to do everything in my power to help you get your person back. And I'm giving you my word because the Federation could care less about you. Let's keep it real. um But I do want that for you, Mal. Like I want you to have your person.
00:54:15
Speaker
I just don't want you to keep going on these crazy robbing sprees. Um, so I liked that line and kind of what it insinuated. I also liked Booker. You have a gravity problem. It just was like, this is kind of like the science now problem later, like where it's just like Booker, you got a gravity problem. He's like, got it. You know, it's like, that's all we need to say. All right, keep it moving. We don't need to be like, well, the Lagrange point when the two, we already did that. Like let's, let's keep it moving. So I i like that.
00:54:40
Speaker
Um, I loved when Culver said, I'm a doctor, not a physicist. That like made me smile. I don't know if they did that on purpose or if that was, you know what, for some reason I didn't hear the line that way, but that should be in the best Trek trope. That's a, I'm a doctor, not a blank. That's exactly good. Good. He didn't say it the way that they always say it, but he did say, he said, I'm a doctor, not a physicist. I'm not sure. Blah, blah, blah. That's on me. i Yes. You're absolutely a hundred percent right. It's why it needs to be a best Trek trope. So, um, good, good call.
00:55:08
Speaker
And then the progenitor who said, or when Burnham was like, is it, it's that simple and the progenitor said, important things often are. I liked the idea of that statement. I don't necessarily agree though because I think important things like the most important things which to me is relationships and people.
00:55:25
Speaker
um Maybe you could say simple, but it's not easy. And I feel like the implication was that it's easy and it's not. like Things that are most important are not always just like super easy. um But I like the i like ah conversation that could happen from that statement.
00:55:42
Speaker
And then I loved, we already have infinite diversity and infinite combinations. I thought that was a really beautiful way of putting it. um And then when she was talking to Lido and Burnham said, life itself is meaning enough. And I was like, there it is. There's the title of the episode, because I didn't know where that came from. um I didn't get it. like I get progenitor tech, but I didn't really and didn't really get the title. Not that I ever really get the title.
00:56:05
Speaker
um last week's I got it. Cause that was what they were talking about. Like I was like, but this week I just liked that line. Life itself is meaning enough. And again, I think it's an interesting and interesting idea. Yeah. I mean, again, these episodes, these seasons tend to devolve into platitudes or just broad proclamations reassurances of like, everything's going to be okay. We have each other.
00:56:35
Speaker
kind of borderline woo woo stuff of like, what is actionable? What is story? What is any of that? And it's like, just seems like, well, people, it seems like they're always going for, well, every person watching Star Trek is very tender and needs weekly reassurance that everything's going to be okay. But I'm glad that those lines resonated. And I actually think those lines resonate even more because you know, it's the last episode.
00:56:59
Speaker
So it's like, it's the cap of that. Right. It's like a summary of the show. Yes. If you've never watched the show, I really actually think, and you're curious, I think you could just watch this one. I think this season is the best season to watch and it and encapsulates all the show's themes for sure. And I think Charisse just gave us a wonderful array of lines that point to that. Would this episode have been a fun Hollow novel to play out?
00:57:24
Speaker
I said maybe, I actually would like to explore all the worlds inside the progenitor tech. Like if it was a game, not all of them, because there was a lot. Yeah, we didn't get the underwater world where she has mermaid fins and she has to get in there. Or who knows what. Yeah, I would love to. And then the one with like the ghosts in the castle that you have to, I don't know. The giant dragon that's shooting fire at you. Yeah. The one underneath him. Yep. I would just, you know, the one with clouds and you just come from cloud to cloud.
00:57:47
Speaker
I think that'd be fun, but I don't know about the rest of the episode, but I think that that part would be fun. And then also the other part I put was if you could use a progenitor tech, like at the end, once you get to the decision, if we in the video game could actually make the decision and we could be like, oh yeah, I'm for sure using it. And then we could like raise up an army and see how that works. Then we could play at that scene, you know, that level again. And this time we could bring walk back and see what happens. And then we could play the level again. You know, it could just be like a choose your own adventure ending to the game. I think that'd be fun. This is the thing.
00:58:14
Speaker
We said this at the beginning, like it's fuzzy on what the stakes are. yeah What are the stakes of this technology at the end of the day? And it's still fuzzy. At the end of the day, it can do what they can already do. like They have programmable matter for one, but they have they can clone clone. We can clone today. Barb Streisand cloned her dog, and I've thought about it ever since. I'm like, if I have an animal I love very much, my clone.
00:58:40
Speaker
And when she says, well, we can, she doesn't say clone, but the progenitor says, well, we can duplicate this dead guy, but it won't have his memories or whatever. And I'm like, for the purposes of the hierarchy of the Imperium, does that matter? Because Maul could just put forth a cover story of He lost his memory. The machine brought him back. Here he is. He's alive. and And then they could figure out a way to transfer his katra or whatever. But like you figure out it's like it's so strange to me that that Burnham's like, well, let's do it. Let's bring him back. And i I'm sure Maul would be happy with a version of him. I don't know. It's just very strange of like, we never see its power.
00:59:21
Speaker
It's all off screen. We just have to assume. That was a ripoff that they could bring lock back, but it wouldn't really be lock because they said before, it could create life, it could restore life. And that's why mall had bright idea of I need to get this tech so I can bring lock back because that was our understanding. Right. So now it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, that's not the understanding at all. No, no, we can just copy things. But they mean it. That's not what we thought it could do. So why was that not clear? I feel like that's really important in the user manual.
00:59:48
Speaker
And I think it's to follow the line of this is an Indiana Jones adventure. They meant like when he pours the water on Sean Connery from the cup of Jesus and it heals his bullet wound. Like that's what they meant. Like if he's like close to death, it could restore him. And it's like, yeah, if it's super death though, it's too far. But if it's just mortally wounded, and that was not clear. That's a it's a letdown. I think she could have had the choice. She's like, we could use this tech to bring this guy back. But if you use this technology, then the technology is yours and it's active and it's tied to you or whatever. And like Bernice making the choice of she's adamant that no person should have this power. So then the choice is like, do I bring back this one life and be tied to this thing or do I just make sure no one has it? No one uses it. But there's no choice. Can I tell you what really bothers me about that scene? The pile of rocks.
01:00:42
Speaker
Where did they get these rocks from? That just bugs me. Do you know the pile of rocks where they were like, oh, the scientist died here, and this is like their monument and their shrine? And I was like, we're in a field of flowers. Where do we get this mountain of rocks from? Also, why very is And this person? Why is she dead? Why doesn't she just use it to restore? That seems like it gives you eternal life. it By their own rules, it should give them eternal life. So what if she's there at the, it's not like her consciousness is still in there or something. Yeah, it's like it's not, in then they could have done that.
01:01:13
Speaker
So we again, scientists that are named, but we never see. There's no flashbacks. there's there I don't even think there were pictures. I don't think there were pictures. There's no pictures. There's a space battle that's happening off screen that we never see. There's there's a a prime mark that we never see. And with the fleet, we never see. There's like so much stuff going on that we never see. And we just have to assume the stakes based on that. So that would be a hard holodeck.
01:01:40
Speaker
uh, hollow novel to play out, I think is like, well, am I going to see any of this? It's like, no, you're all about now. Did you like the matrix reloaded? Did you, did you like Spider-Man two? You can, you can fight mall in that style where it's like you're fighting agent, agent Smith, or you're fighting Doc Ock falling off the roof. You're super jumping around. You want to do that?
01:02:05
Speaker
Not really. i We've already talked about The Matrix. Like, I like The Matrix. It's great. I just don't need any homage to it. The Antoine Crudion Award for Best Performance.
Sonequa Martin-Green's Performance
01:02:15
Speaker
It's got to be Sinequa Martin-Green, right? Yeah. That's kind of always her. Yeah. ah Listening to her on that DeCon Chamber podcast is great. she's This is after the show's wrapped, so it's it's very recent. You know, she had a completely different experience having young children than Kate Mulgrew did.
01:02:31
Speaker
right right yeah and And basically had a lot of ownership and in the show and and the production seemed to defer to her a lot. And she had a lot of power she gained over time. ah She lost both of her parents during the run of the show. like There's like a lot of stuff that went on there. It's just really interesting listening to her. And she's great. and you can I think her wanting those responsibilities is also what makes her very captainly and authoritative. And like I said, she has the juice. This episode, she was definitely putting some mustard on stuff though. She was using the whisper a little a lot more like, I'm i'm doing an ah Alexis commercial. Like she she has that whisper tone and she was doing a lot of it. I thought that was the progenitor. The progenitor to me was like a Alexis commercial. Like everything she said was like,
01:03:22
Speaker
Well, we're here to talk about life. And it was like, okay, is that how y'all, that's how you guys really talk to each other? Okay, well. Well, that, was that so to me, that sounds like she's selling life insurance. People have important, decide how they live their lives. And suddenly, mayhem is there.
01:03:42
Speaker
ah So yeah, it was great. Again, I liked her at the end. that's To me, that's the harder part is that was Burnham, but she was clearly channeling some sort of auntie or maybe even her mother. yeah like There was some sweetness to it, a tenderness. Some grandmotherly feel coming through. And also this kind of release of like, I'm not the captain anymore.
01:04:04
Speaker
in a way, or the admiral in this case. By the way, I actually like that she got a very super happy ending. If you're doing the Wayne's World thing, delete she had the super happy ending. That was great. I'm glad she got it. um The oldening makeup was gorgeous. Good, good stuff in the oldening.
01:04:22
Speaker
They look legit. like yeah You could barely see the edges where the prosthetics are put on. like They did such a good job. And then the way they moved their bodies, they also walked and moved as if they were older people. it was just That was a spectacular job. It's really hard to pretend to be older than you are. Yeah. And she's her acting, at least her background, is like she didn't like go to Juilliard or anything, but she's like she works really hard at it. So she's just very ah It's a craft thing, and if any I think if anyone has any issues with the character, it's the writing, but it's not the acting. And she did a great job. um Then the Shatner. So I left it blank, because I was interested to hear. I put Saru when he threatened the Breen.
01:05:10
Speaker
ok I am a Kelpian. We are predators. I am looking at you as if you are prey. Yeah, we'll do it because we he's got to. He's just sitting there. He's got to go for it. Yeah, that's a good one. He's like look into my eyes and I was and then I remember that.
01:05:25
Speaker
Sanico Martin Green was talking about, she said a lot of stuff in that interview. like So he's barely in the show this season, right? Doug yeah Jones. He's like 58, 59 when they were shooting this. I think he just turned 60 or 61. Wow. And he's suspended. like He's on those platform things, and that's why he's sitting in this thing. It takes him a long time to get in the makeup. He can only breathe through those little nostril holes. Oh my goodness.
01:05:47
Speaker
He can't eat while he's in the costume. So no wonder he they were like writing him out of the show or limiting his time. It was a lot of, and she said a couple of things like the prosthetics and the and the way that they direct a lot of talent crashed upon the rocks of that show.
01:06:04
Speaker
And you could tell while watching Star Trek Discovery that very few, like they the directors kind of winnowed down to a certain amount of people could do it. um And then the the prosthetics, they they would simplify sometimes and become complicated and others. And so it's a it was just the sense she gives us, it's a very difficult show to make. And of course, we also know that with all the behind the scenes,
01:06:28
Speaker
Showrunner changes, it's a very hard show to conceive of and the excuse, just a very tough show. So Doug Jones going for it behind those prosthetics when he's at the end of ah ah a long run and he's very old and he's tired. He's old and tired of doing this stuff. Like, yeah, absolutely. Why not? He has to sell it through so much latex. Which is not easy for
Klingon Appearance Changes
01:06:49
Speaker
anyone. Yeah. yeah I don't think it's late. Wait, maybe it's not latex now. It's some other thing. That was something that they were talking about with when they were bringing back the Klingons and all that. It's like, well, we don't use the same, because of the cameras, we use different materials than what they used back in the day. So that's why we decided to make them look a little bit different. Everyone's like, it sucks though. They're like, okay, we'll make a new version that looks like the old version. They didn't make them look a little bit different. They made them look completely different. Like you cannot you would not connect one with the other in any reality.
Opening Sequence Visuals
01:07:21
Speaker
so ah Shoot to thrill most exciting image or sequence.
01:07:26
Speaker
I have two. The first is just the opening sequence was so stunning. Like the black holes and the portal and then get it. I mean, all of that. I was like, ooh, I just want to watch that over and over and over. That was really, really pretty. It was a good hook. And then the second was with the progenitor field, when the progenitor field inverted. So after Maul activated the big fire beams from the sky and everything's like all yellow and orange and bright.
01:07:54
Speaker
and sunny and then Burnham goes into the tech and now it's all moonlit and there's like slow star falling and it's all blue. I was like, wow, that is gorgeous. And the feeling is so like calming and, you know, reflective and all of that. I thought that transition, that juxtaposition was really well done.
01:08:14
Speaker
Um, I had Burnham's initial trip through the warp zones, not the Matrix, Spider-Man 2 fight with Maul later on, which is basically the same thing. But in terms of a sequence where she's kind of like figuring out what's going on, I thought that was pretty interesting. I actually like both of yours a lot.
Spore Drive and Starfleet Academy
01:08:31
Speaker
Just the opening shot for me, I was like, this i I'm familiar with Discovery's game here of like, you're on it you're you starting the level in a melee.
01:08:40
Speaker
you all the different factions are fighting like a video game and so I'm like okay um but I like your other one that one's really good too but I don't know I gotta give we gotta to give something to her being inside this lobby of the progenitors basically it has no purpose it's like it's is it technology or what she's like no no no it's the it's the it's the vestibule basically You still have to save the secret password, and you have to do the secret handshake, and you have to do all these other things, and then you have to have another conversation. But of course you do. But of course you do. That's what we've been doing all season. So of course we do. What part of this will they teach at Starfleet Academy? I put that you can use the spore drive to jump anything.
01:09:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good one. Well, so this is tricky because this is a red directive. So you can't teach about the progenitor's tech. That's all. out You don't need to teach anything about the progenitor's tech. All that stuff is known. We know how to clone. We know the Iconian gateway. It's like, it's not new. None of this is new.
01:09:44
Speaker
Um, can't bring back the dead. We got it. We can't do that either. Like, nothing is to the progenitors or just us. Oh, maybe that could have been... If Burnham was like an earlier season Burnham, that would have been the chip on her shoulder. She's like, that's it? We can do all this stuff already. Are you saying the secret to life itself is that we're alive? Wow. ah ah The secret of life is that we're alive. Oh my gosh.
01:10:13
Speaker
Great job. So what are you saying? We can't jump anything. Are you saying that because so the sport drive is classified? The sport drive is classified. Is it? Maybe it's not in this part part of time. And there's like, there's the, what's it called? The other drive, not the project, not the projector drive. They have the other drive that, that, uh, Saru's using. And so like, they have like the bad sport drive, the evil sport drive that they had last season.
01:10:42
Speaker
the dark spore drive. So, okay, I still think that's a good idea. Let's go with that one. I still think that's a good one. Did you not have one? I also, I had like, well, we learned that Tilly has become, becomes the longest tenured professor in Starfleet Academy history. So I don't know- So that's what they will teach at Starfleet? How to- They will teach- Have job satisfaction? Yeah, I don't know. She will teach at Starfleet Academy for the longest period of time, I guess was what they will teach. Ah, okay. Okay.
01:11:12
Speaker
Uh, so funny in this episode, she's like, I know I'll come up with the mentorship program. And I'm like. So now you know what she's going to be about.
Holographic Characters as Mentors
01:11:21
Speaker
i Well, that's why I think that it makes sense that the doctor is coming back from Voyager and you can bring in literally any cast member from all the shows because they can be a holographic mentor. That's true. That's true. So that's the that's hopefully they'll go there. Although at the same time, if you're trying to appeal to 12 to 20 year olds or whatever, you're not going to want to bring in. No. Well, I think the reason they do that, though, is to bring in the parents and the parents force their kids to watch. That's like.
01:11:48
Speaker
I think what they're going for with that plan. You're right. I suspect that that is a shift from the initial conception of Gossip Girl plus Star Trek. and that in developing Over the course of developing the show, the people that are paying lots of money for every episode are like, wait a minute. We're not doing soapy teen sex and space. and You have to give us a little more than that. And then they're like, Holly Hunter?
01:12:17
Speaker
but like, OK, more and more. We shall see. Yeah. Because I mean, ah Prodigy sets up that they can have these holographic legacy characters teach students. So if Janeway is teaching a bunch of little kids, then obviously they're going to have like another command hologram where it's like Riker, or um I know it's going to be Mariner. it's got to but They're going to have to bring Tanya Newsome in. She's writing on the show. So anyway.
01:12:46
Speaker
um Could this episode have been hornier and would that have made it better? I'm gonna leave that one to you. Why? I never have an answer to this question. That's why. Do you not like seeing attractive people be horny? Does that make- I mean, I don't- I don't- not like it, but i never I can never conceive of how to make it even hornier and even better, but you always have all these brilliant ideas. And I'm like, oh yeah, yep, that would have been better. Yep, I agree with that
Horniness in Finales
01:13:14
Speaker
too. i owe i For Discovery especially, it's rare that I think it shouldn't be hornier or horny at all. And I think
01:13:23
Speaker
in a finale horniness is a good thing and we kind of get it we get they're on their way to it when they're on the beach after the wedding and weddings do make people horny it's also funny that weddings also sometimes like bad people will use it as a platform to steal the spotlight and at least Burnham and Book go outside away from it because it's like They're not like, stop the ceremony. We're getting married. Yeah. Yeah. But so I don't know. It could have been hornier on the beach, I guess. And it was on its way to that. And maybe it could have been hornier when they were old because I'm not icked out by old people showing that they're still into each other. And like he's dropping plastic into her coffee. What was it? I don't remember what it was. It was like kind of wax from their wax berry tree. Yeah. Another special effect. They just it's like
01:14:13
Speaker
ah what When all else fails, they're like, buddy, spend money on this shot. Anyway, so I think it could have been, would that have made it better? Yeah, because i they're hot people. You know, just see it, you know, and interesting. Rainer, I don't know, someone, there could have been a little more anyway. So Trek, Merry or Kill? Life itself. I gave this one a high Trek. I like this one. This was a good episode. This was a good Discovery episode.
01:14:41
Speaker
um What about being alive? What do you agree, just life itself? For life itself, I'm going to give it an eight out of 10. Could be better, could be better. I'm going to marry being alive and I'm going to softly trek life itself.
01:15:02
Speaker
i i If you had said, I kind of want to, because we didn't have any great scenes, which is not necessarily a hallmark, No, but I felt like it would it also they would have great scenes. If it was a Mary, I feel like it would have seen, like that's what would make
Comparison with Deep Space Nine
01:15:17
Speaker
it a Mary. I'd be like, oh, the scene when this, the scene when that, the scene when that, and then collectively, I'd be like, and that's why it's so great. But the fact that I didn't have any great scenes by the end, and then I was like, well, the little one, okay, sure. It was like, well, it can't, it just can't be a Mary because there's something that I'm not connecting with.
01:15:35
Speaker
But I still think it's a good episode. They whiff on their ending on the core concept of ah this progenitor's mission. I think it's a whiff. I don't think it gets it. It's all the character stuff. Now, it's I think it's better than the last season with the With the species they can't talk to and season three and with OSIRA and all that stuff. Season two, we're like, let's jump to the future. And and also, like, I think it's this is the best season of Discovery by far. And I like this ending. And if we're talking about finales and Star Trek history.
01:16:08
Speaker
It's not the Enterprise finale at all. It's a problem it's not Turnabout Intruder. the The original series ending, those are two of the worst for sure. The the last episode of the animated series was they all turned into babies. What? Just thinking about their adventure all over?
01:16:25
Speaker
The counterclock incident is is is not worse than Enterprise and Turnabout and ah and the original series. and And I don't think that this one is close to these either. You liked Endgame a lot, it sounds like. I did. And I would put and i liked Endgame at the time. i'm I'm looking forward to going back and rewatching that at some point.
01:16:47
Speaker
I was not a Voyager fan, ah but when when Endgame happened and I watched it, I'm like, that was a perfect Voyager finale. That was exactly the show at the very end. yeah And it's like, great. It's like not what I would want, but it's like that is a Star Trek Voyager series finale for sure.
01:17:06
Speaker
And it was appropriate. Yes, and this feels not what like the Deep Space Nine finale was to me a disappointment. Was this as disappointing as Deep Space Nine? ah No, it wasn't disappointing. I don't think it ah much at all. Like it was it's like 75% of the way there. Them whiffing on what the progenitors that mission like 25% and also not surprising because most of the time they kind of whiff.
01:17:31
Speaker
on the final episode, the the payoff. ah So I don't know, it's just like the fourth best finale of ah Star Trek is kind of what I'm throwing out there. Because all good things is the best. You know, Enterprise is probably the worst. Turnabout Intruders in the middle. Stranger Worlds is ongoing. We don't know what Lord X is going to be. Prodigy's ending is pretty good. So Prodigy's ending is in the top three, probably, because that's probably a series finale. um So it's pretty surprisingly good. ah would I say that because I think Discovery rightfully gets a lot of criticism over the years, but this really is a solid season of Star Trek and it's best for Discovery.
Calypso Short Trek Connection
01:18:07
Speaker
And the ending ah is a... Really solid payoff, like we said, a track. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I feel like the issues that we have with Discovery are issues that we have with Discovery, but they're consistent. too That's a fair point.
01:18:20
Speaker
You know, it's like the same thing that we keep getting irritated that Adira keeps himming and hawing, but Adira keeps himming and hawing. It's very consistent, right? It's not like, and then this week this, but then next week this, it's not like big steps forward and then big steps back. It's very consistent. so And I do like that they were a little more confident sounding this time. Their their stammers were less. sir ah So I thought that was that was nice. and um Okay, back to Calypso for a moment, since that short trek is actually what ends this show. ah Did you like it, Shreese? Yeah, I liked Calypso. I thought it was really sweet. It was very emotional, even though it was a short story. um But I also thought at the end of this at the end of the Discovery Life Itself episode, I thought, how cruel to send a sentient ship
01:19:12
Speaker
to the middle of nowhere by itself for who knows how
Moral Implications of AI Isolation
01:19:15
Speaker
long. It's different if this particular ship had not been trained, like if we're talking about AI training, it had been trained on the discoveries philosophy of togetherness and brotherhood and family. And now you're sending it out in isolation, which is the worst, you know, other than death or dismemberment or torture. That's one of the worst things you could do to a person is isolate them from other humans because, you know, humans need need that connection for survival. So I thought,
01:19:42
Speaker
this is just the most mean, heartless, cruel thing that you could do to this ship because the ship is sentient. Like send another ship, send a ship that's not sentient if you just want to sit there. And then I don't know. So I thought that was messed up. And so then in Calypso when it was like clear that she's just suffering, the ship is suffering from crushing loneliness, and then ends up alone, just like she started alone and is still sitting there and like the Federation's who knows what and I just thought that was really bad guy.
01:20:10
Speaker
It was just sad. It was just sad. I think all of it was, it was a, it was a really cool story though. I liked watching it, but I just felt so mad bad for the ship this whole time. I was like, does anyone care about the ship? Is anyone going to help the ship? Are they going to make a second ship? Can you like, is there anything we could do to give some company to this poor ship? No, no one cares. And then at the end of this episode of ah life itself, when Burnham was like, you can come back and meet our our descendants and meet the next generation of your family. I was like, how will your family know anything about you? If it's been, you know, hundreds of years and so so many generations, like they may have heard stories. You may now be like a ghost tale or a legend or something like that, but there's no actual connection to you. The way this crew is connected to you as their ship and their protector and their provider and their, you know, all these things. So yes, that whole long thing to say, yes, I liked it. And also poor ship.
01:21:02
Speaker
Yeah. I thought the baller move would have been to put her son as the captain of Discovery. And then how do you tie it into Calypso? I think it does you just do an ellipsis. Well, because her thing is like the crew went on a mission and they haven't been seen for a thousand years. So Calypso takes place a thousand years after Discovery's final season, which takes place like, you know, 900 years after we know about Star Trek. So very far in the future.
01:21:29
Speaker
And she's obviously hallucinating and we saw her face the strange like she's already started that process and some time in between. I just think the baller move would have been if they put him on there and just given a hint that something something could happen. We're going on a mission. We're investigating a temporal anomaly. You know what I mean? Like something like that. But they wouldn't do it because then it'd be like, that's a sad ending for Burnham and we wanted to have a happy ending. But it's so they're they're more than content to give Zora the sad ending, which is tough. And I also think it's weird that they didn't. In the finale, it was a chance to really cap the Zora story.
01:22:04
Speaker
Right. Is this knowledge base that knew everything at the time.
AI's Agency and Freedom Debate
01:22:08
Speaker
Right. All history. Right. They had to jump to the future because they didn't want it being assimilated, basically. And so there's no cap because she's like, I, you know, first, it's been I've I.
01:22:21
Speaker
I feel like I'm approaching a time where I've known less than I've known more or something like that. You know what I mean? Like she's approaching a point in her perspective where the knowledge that she has is less than the knowledge that she's gained since she's jumped ahead to the future.
01:22:37
Speaker
and how she's maybe having ah an identity crisis on all her own. Maybe you could have just said, I'd like to go explore this galaxy or the universe or something, and Zora is set free. you know and that and then And then Calypso isn't, it's not a direct tie, but it's like, well, we can assume Zora got into some incident, some thing.
01:22:59
Speaker
And the crew is the crew. But like maybe she maybe that's what was missing was like agency. And it was like Burnham saying goodbye to her more directly. And only yeah Burnham has the power to like hand over the key star. Yeah, no, I agree. I think it's the agency because she was like, like when when the guy was like, you have to let me go back to my home world or whatever, she was like, I can't leave this position because I'm following orders. And it was like, the orders were to wait here for this person. You've done that. So the orders are to.
01:23:28
Speaker
whatever right rest of the or Was there any other order? First of all, how did they even know this a thousand years ago? But whatever. Let's put that to the side. Why are we still waiting? What's the rest of the orders and why are you following orders? And then I was like, I know in the episode where she became sentient and she didn't want to tell them about the scary thing. And they were like, hey, if we're going to let you survive or whatever, you have to agree to follow orders. And she was like, all right.
01:23:47
Speaker
like okay but even that was a choice and you're still you still have a choice so even though you got those orders a thousand years ago and you followed them good for you um you don't have to keep following them like you can still make choices and it's like does she have to wait for for kovac to come back or kovich whatever his name is for him to come back from a thousand years in the past to give her her next order well so That was my way of like, if someone comes along in 10 years, and like, is trying to make more Star Trek, that's not like another prequel to the original series, or a remake of the next generation, but they're like making something that's contemporaneous with the Star Trek universe as we understood it.
01:24:25
Speaker
how would you even thread this needle? And the way to do it is exactly what you said. So it's Kovich, who is Daniels, who is part of the Time War from both Enterprise and as we discover in Discovery.
Upcoming Star Trek Episodes
01:24:39
Speaker
By the time they get to the 32nd century, the Time War had ended. So at some point in that Time War, you could thread the needle of like Zora needs to be at this point for this mission that connects to that. So that's how you could string it all together to make it kind of work.
01:24:54
Speaker
But yeah, it's like, that I appreciate that they thought, I'm surprised they felt so strongly that they had to connect it. And it's like, it must've been the question that they got all the time from the fans of like, how does this connect to Calypso? And they're like, well, we got to do that. And they're like, it doesn't, it just doesn't let it go. Yeah. yeah
01:25:18
Speaker
So we have finished a season of Star Trek. So I think it's reasonable to recount. I like to do this because there's so much Star Trek out there. Completing a season feels like a huge accomplishment. Charisse, again, thank you for coming along on the ride. Yeah, thanks for having me.
01:25:32
Speaker
Now, a few episodes did wind up going to vote, so thank you to our listeners who helped break some ties. A season five of Discovery wound up grading out across its ten episodes with five treks and five kills. If you want to find out which ones, go back and listen, if you haven't been listening. I think we would have liked to have seen a Marian there. I think the closest we might have come was Face the Strange.
01:25:56
Speaker
h Yeah, that got a that got a high trick for both of us, the Trek Plus. Yeah, so to follow the formula that that fans had talked about when it was just the original series and maybe some of Next Generation, it's like 30% of Star Trek episodes are amazing, 30% of them are forgettable or not good, and the rest, 40% are like good to pretty good like and Star Trek is like pizza even when it's bad it's still pretty good but you know 30 40 30 those that's the formula i always think about all right so it's new year's eve happy new year everybody don't forget that Charisse is talking about star trek uh all over the internet where where can people hear you you can find me mainly on youtube by typing in at the sci-fi savage and come hang out with us where we're always talking trek all the time
01:26:46
Speaker
So for New Year's Day, we're gonna drop our animated spotlight for January. Katie Hampton will be back. ah We're gonna do two Lower Decks episodes. And then Charisse, I've dragooned you into the show. but You are just, you are in the show. And that is we're doing a 30th anniversary theme month for Star Trek Voyager, because it'll be the 30th anniversary of its premiere, which is not at all a terrifying glimpse at our mortality.
01:27:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's nuts. How did that happen? That doesn't seem right. The map seems off by at least 25 years. So we've already done Caretaker, so I might push that back into the feed as a with Kristen and I. We did that back in 2022 when we first launched, but you're going to stick around for four episodes from the first season, one of which you've already seen, which you reviewed, ah but I'm going to make you watch it again. I have seen, in fact, all of them. So I'm totally okay with that. Voyager is my favorite series. So I'm totally cool with rewatching the episodes. And I'm looking forward to it because it's been a long time since I've seen all of those episodes. So check that out. Next week is our Voyager look back. Tomorrow is Lower Decks. And this has been Star Trek Discovery season five. Thanks for listening. TMK out. Bye.