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How to Have Better Hookups and Casual Sex (1-4)
277 Plays2 years ago
In this thought-provoking episode, hosts Jon and Natalie delve deep into the nuanced world of casual sex, shedding light on how to elevate these encounters from mere physical interactions to fulfilling experiences rooted in pleasure, consent, and introspection.
Navigating the realm of casual sex can be a complex journey, and Jon and Natalie leave no stone unturned as they discuss the importance of prioritizing pleasure for all parties involved. Drawing from their own experiences and insights, they explore how communication, exploration, and understanding one's desires can lead to more satisfying and enjoyable encounters.
But it's not just about the physical aspect. Consent is paramount in any sexual encounter, and Jon and Natalie emphasize the need for clear communication and mutual respect in all interactions, whether they're one-night stands or ongoing casual relationships. They offer practical tips and strategies for ensuring that consent is always enthusiastic, informed, and ongoing.
Moreover, the hosts encourage listeners to engage in introspection and self-reflection, questioning whether casual sex aligns with their current needs and desires. They challenge societal norms and expectations surrounding casual encounters, urging listeners to explore what truly brings them fulfillment and satisfaction in their sexual experiences.
Through candid discussions and insightful anecdotes, Jon and Natalie provide listeners with valuable insights and tools for navigating the complexities of casual sex with intentionality and mindfulness. Whether you're a seasoned veteran or new to the scene, this episode offers invaluable guidance for anyone seeking to enhance their sexual experiences and cultivate deeper connections, one encounter at a time.
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Transcript
Introduction to Better Casual Sex
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, this is John with the fun with sex podcast. And I'm with Natalie. And today we're talking about how to have better casual sex or hookups or whatever you want to call it. I think the most important thing to note about this conversation beforehand is that casual sex in of itself is not empowering. And I think that's what happened in the early 2000s that kind of
00:00:27
Speaker
ruined hookups for a lot of people was this idea was pushed that casual sex and hookups are empowering and sexually free and a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't be into hookups and into hookup culture participated in it as a sign of freedom and they realized it wasn't for them and they had a lot of experiences.
Defining Casual Sex
00:00:48
Speaker
What is free is the freedom to have casual sex
00:00:52
Speaker
and the choice to be able to do this without being slut shamed and having the stigma that goes along with it. And these are topics that we're going to be covering in this conversation. So Natalie, what does it mean to have casual sex or hookups? I think, you know, the definition I would say of casual sex or hookups is having a sexual experience with someone that you haven't developed a prior relationship with.
00:01:19
Speaker
So maybe somebody you met at a bar, maybe somebody you've only interacted with that day, it doesn't necessarily have to be like you hook up that same day, but it's a casual encounter. You're not friends with this person. You don't have a romantic relationship. You haven't really been on more than one date and you're engaging in sexual activity. And this is typically in a timeframe that people
00:01:48
Speaker
would say is quicker than maybe other people's sexual encounters. I think that I'll have a little bit more of an expansive definition than you. I view casual sex as any type of sex that happens outside of a romantic relationship. Whereas I think that casual sex can be long running friends with benefits.
00:02:12
Speaker
But for the purpose of this episode, I'm narrowing, narrowing casual sex into that you have like hookups or short term flings, or like you said, you meet somebody at a bar and you bring them home and you have sex with them. And we're mostly going to be looking at it through man, woman hookup experiences. But again, I think that a lot of our content is relatable to poor people.
00:02:37
Speaker
I mean, I would disagree because sex that happens outside a relationship. There's people where they've been fucking on and off for years and they've never been in a relationship where they've been in a situation for three months and they're fucking and that's not very casual at that point. You know, the person pretty well. That's fair. That's fair. So I guess like, yeah, we can just use a definition that you have for this is about like hookups and about
00:03:04
Speaker
early on encounters in a non-romantic relationship with SL. Yeah, I think it's more about like, you just don't have an intimate dynamic with that person.
Critique of Hookup Culture
00:03:15
Speaker
Why do you think casual sex was such a bad experience for so many people? You know, there's a lot of conversations about how bad hookup culture is, how bad dating apps are for people, or how bad dating apps have been for people. Why do you think that's the case? I think
00:03:33
Speaker
You know, the idea of hookups and casual sex was kind of pushed onto people as this is inherently fun, inherently enjoyable, inherently empowering. I think especially for women too, it was kind of similar to the concept we were talking about with freeing yourself of slut shaving and empowering yourself. I think a lot of women had that desire to do that. They had that desire to be
00:04:03
Speaker
on the same plain field as men and take their sexual power back. But I think what people kind of neglected to talk about in the mainstream was the fact that casual sex isn't inherently empowering. It can be very disempowering. It can be very negative. It can be very not pleasurable, not enjoyable because people were just kind of going into casual encounters without
00:04:30
Speaker
really knowing what they desired out of that encounter, what pleasure looks like for them, how to communicate their boundaries, how to communicate their desires in a very short timeframe with somebody that they don't know that well. So I think it was just kind of something that was pushed in the mainstream media without really
00:04:51
Speaker
It was kind of this idea that like, oh, the fun of it is you're just hooking up with this person you don't really know and that's gonna inherently make the sexual act fun. When for some people that is, you know, some people that thrill of it all is enough for them to have a good time, but I think a lot of people didn't have that experience. I think you're right. I think that you hit all three categories that I would have. I think my first category is
00:05:18
Speaker
For a lot of people, casual encounters did not center their pleasure.
Gender Differences in Casual Sex
00:05:22
Speaker
Specifically, for women hooking up with men, casual attacks did not center their pleasure. There was a study by Dr. Terry Cohen out of the University of Michigan where she basically asked women, well she asked everybody, how likely are you to have casual sex if somebody who's attractive comes up to you and like,
00:05:43
Speaker
proposition to you for it. And straight women were the least likely people to say like, yeah, I would hook up with a stranger. And the reason why most of them said it was because like, I don't think one safety concerns, but two, I don't think I would have a good time. I don't think that my pleasure would be centered. I don't think I would orgasm and the numbers back it up where
00:06:03
Speaker
about a third of women finish in like first time encounters with sex with men and that's as low as from men with finishing with women, men finishing with other men, women finishing with other women. We don't have any numbers on like non-binary folk but
00:06:20
Speaker
Basically, if you're a femme presentee person hooking up with a man, there's a good chance that your pleasure is not going to be sent and you're not going to be finished joining sex. The second category of people that I think casual sex was bad for them was people who just shouldn't have had casual sex.
00:06:36
Speaker
I think it's people who function better in a more romantic or in a relationship where they have stronger bonds with the person that they're having sex with. And that's the case for a lot of people where they need to have that emotional dynamic and for them to enjoy sex. And I think that in the early 2000s through the 2010s, there was this push for like sexual liberation means be able to just go out to a bar and hook up with people. But that's not the case for everybody. That's not what everybody's sexuality looks like.
00:07:06
Speaker
And I think the last group of people is people who have had shame about their casual encounters, where the experiences may not have been bad experiences, but then after the experience, they fail.
00:07:19
Speaker
the roots of purity culture grabs them and they're like, hey, I feel kind of nasty or disgusted at myself for doing this, for having sex outside of marriage or having sex with somebody that I don't have feelings for because we're so conditioned to believe that sex has to have some type of romantic ties for it to be valid and you can't just focus on pleasure.
Understanding Demisexuality and Casual Sex
00:07:40
Speaker
So I guess going into one of the categories, how do you know if casual sex is for you? Um, I mean, I think
00:07:49
Speaker
that kind of leads into the idea of demisexuality. I think it's more about how do you know if it's not for you. So if you're somebody where you kind of don't relate to that idea of like,
00:08:06
Speaker
Oh, being attracted to random celebrities, being attracted to random people you see on the street. If you're somebody where your sexual attraction is more so something that doesn't happen in a short timeframe and your sexual attraction to people grows out of your personal connection to them. So if you're somebody where you might be dating a guy for, you know, you've had a few dates and you're like,
00:08:31
Speaker
I still don't really know how into him I am, like, I like him. And then, you know, by the fifth date, you're like, Oh, yeah, I like this person. That's somebody where maybe a casual encounter isn't necessarily for you. For me, I want to blow off what you're saying. And I want to group this in with
00:08:50
Speaker
The group that feels shame. I think a good way to tell if casual sex is for you is how comfortable are you with the idea of sex? Is sex something that if you and your friends or someone brings up sex to you, you kind of shy away from the conversation or you feel a little bit uncomfortable or are you someone where somebody brings up sex? You're like, hey, this is what's happening in my sex life. I feel pretty open to talk about it. I feel comfortable sharing these experiences.
00:09:20
Speaker
Do you feel a lot of shame around sexuality? Do you feel bad about wanting sex? Do you feel bad about watching porn besides the capital and like exploitation reasons? You just feel guilty about consuming sexuality. And if you still have those like purity culture roots and issues, maybe casual sex isn't for you. It may be casual sex isn't the problem. Maybe you just need to find sex that fulfills your personality and your desires.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah and like I wouldn't say it so much about people who still feel guilt from purity culture but because I think that is something that ebbs and flows and that can be worked on but I think you do have to understand that if you are going to engage in casual sex you need to be somebody who's really comfortable talking about your sexual desires
00:10:12
Speaker
and what you need out of a sexual encounter in order to feel pleasure and your boundaries as well.
Communication and Consent in Casual Sex
00:10:20
Speaker
So again, that's something that everybody should work on. Um, you should get really comfortable talking about your boundaries. You should get really comfortable saying like, Hey, I didn't finish. Can we do this? Hey, I don't like that touch. I like this instead stuff like that.
00:10:38
Speaker
Um, and if you're somebody where you don't feel like you're in a head space yet, where you can very comfortably tell someone in a matter of fact way of like, Hey, I like this or I don't like this. Then I think you should probably do like a little bit more internal work before trying to have casual sex. And I think going into the next topic, I was going to bring up the best way to have a good sexual experience, good casual sexual experience is to focus on pleasure.
00:11:07
Speaker
And I think for a lot of people, the reason why casual sex was bad for them was they went into it expecting this fun, wow time, especially for women, and then they left feeling disappointed because
00:11:21
Speaker
some guy sticked his penis into them a couple of times and then just came. And that's how their night ended. And they weren't centered at all in a sexual experience, which I think is the one of the best ways to improve, as you were getting at, to improve casual sex is communication on the front end. And I understand that this isn't sexy, but before we get into bed with each other, especially if it's the first couple of times, we should have a conversation about, hey, before we do this, this is what I need to do to fill pleasure in bed.
00:11:52
Speaker
I like oral sex. I like vibrators. I like being fingered. I don't want to just have been in the trade of sex for 5-10 minutes. Also, this is what I need to do to feel safe. Because going back to Dr. Cohen's study, a lot of women said that they don't feel safe in casual encounters and men and women should both instigate conversations before they hook up saying like,
00:12:15
Speaker
This is things that I consent to. These are safe words I want to use. These are my boundaries. And that way, if you can go into a casual counter, one, knowing that both parties' pleasure is going to be focused, and two, both parties set their sexual safety boundaries and know that their safety is going to be focused on, we can have a more relaxed and enjoyable experience. Yeah. Oh, is that all you were going to add? Yeah.
00:12:45
Speaker
I also think that for a lot of people, if you're going to have a really good sexual experience, there needs to be a conversation on what the sex is going to look like. And I know this is not the most sexy thing to have a conversation when you're in the moment and passions are flying. But for some people, sex looks very different for different people.
00:13:05
Speaker
And I think for some people they go into a casual encounter expecting this really rough physical sex of a lot of like hard fucking and like maybe choke always get consent before choking, but maybe choking and
00:13:21
Speaker
Uh, hair pulling and ass lapping. And I think for other people, they go into casual sex and they may want something a little bit more romantic. They may want to have more missionary styles, deep eye contact, deep making out. And I think that as long as consent is focused and there's a conversation beforehand, both ways of sex are equally valid. But if I want the super rough sex, you want a very more passionate sex, we don't talk about it. And then we have a hookup.
00:13:51
Speaker
one of us is going to leave unsatisfied and not having the sex that we want it to have. Yeah, exactly. And I think that that's where it becomes really, really important to have that communication beforehand because it'll be awkward. It's harder in the moment to communicate your boundaries and desires during the passion of sex than it is beforehand.
00:14:16
Speaker
And I think that's kind of the where we come in of like trying to get people advice. Because I think when you read about this kind of stuff online boundaries and consent, it's always talked about in a very clinical unrealistic way that most people don't desire to do. Like most people don't desire to sit down with this guy they just met at the bar be like, Hey,
00:14:46
Speaker
I have trauma with choking, so if you choke me, I may have a meltdown. But I would absolutely love if you slip a finger in my ass. Don't get me wrong, there's some people that are perfectly fine doing that, and they find partners who are also really cool with just that realistic matter of fact conversation. But you could also communicate things in a sexy way.
00:15:15
Speaker
You bring someone home, just sit down with them and be like, as you're getting into the foreplay, I really want to know what turns you on. What do you like? What do you not like? And just kind of open up that conversation and for yourself, be ready to communicate like, Hey, especially being a woman, most women can't come from penetrative sex. Be ready to say, Hey, like this is the toy I need to use. It would be really hot if you ate me out.
00:15:45
Speaker
or I find it so sexy if you use the vibrator or as a man, you could say, Hey, I want to do all these things to you. Or what do you want that turns you on? Or can I pull your hair? Do you like, I want to pull your hair so bad and you give them that experience, that time to say, Hey, no hair pulling isn't for me.
00:16:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. We're going to do an episode specifically on how to set boundaries and how to act for consent in a sexy way. But I guess getting back to this episode, I think like another thing for casual sex is that I think for a lot of people, there's a lot of shame in casual sex and expectation to not have any type of emotional reaction at all. That makes sense. Yeah. And I think that like that myth needs to be addressed and like,
00:16:34
Speaker
kind of like thrown away with because sex is a very emotional, even if it's casual experience for a lot of people, not to mention you have a lot of different hormones flooding your brain with the evolutionary purpose of trying to get you emotionally attached to the person you're hooking up with.
Emotions and Casual Sex
00:16:55
Speaker
So I think it's really unrealistic for us to say that like, yeah,
00:16:59
Speaker
you have sex with somebody casually, especially if you're having sex with somebody casually more than once and you're supposed to have this completely zero feelings, zero emotional reaction to it. And I think people need to understand that that is a consequence for a lot of people of having sex. Yeah. I think, yeah, it's kind of hard because, um, like the big thing that was
00:17:24
Speaker
pushed amongst like purity conversations was this idea that like, oh, if you're a woman, these certain chemicals only get released when you have sex and when you have a baby. So that's why women get attached from sex and men don't. So I think there was kind of like this reverse effect where every woman who wanted to engage in casual sex was like,
00:17:48
Speaker
I cannot have any emotions and I need to be like almost like the stereotypical male who just like doesn't care and doesn't give a fuck. And I think you see it coming from a lot of men too where like they're so afraid the woman is going to get attached that they have to be like super cold to her.
00:18:09
Speaker
Just a big piece of advice, I would say. If somebody's being a fucking asshole to you, if they're being super cold and weird and trying to like, you know, especially if you're a woman, if the dude is being super like, I cannot show any emotions and I cannot care about her or she'll get attached. Don't fuck him.
00:18:30
Speaker
Just set that boundary early on. If somebody's giving weird vibes, if somebody is trying to make it so clear that they don't want to date you, just don't give them the attention. You can easily go to the bar, find another guy. You can easily go on Tinder or find someone else to hook up with. But yeah, I think it happens on both ends where women are trying really hard to look like the cool girl, and then men are trying really hard to make sure that they don't have some
00:19:00
Speaker
woman attached to them. And I think the thing is, if you want to engage in hookup culture in a healthy way, you have to engage with people who kind of understand that people are going to have emotional needs after sex and aftercare is a thing, whether you're in a partnership with this person or not.
00:19:24
Speaker
And you do have to be realistic with yourself about what you're looking for because I think the other major issue I come across too is people kind of go into this being like, I only want to hook up. Even though they know deep, deep down, they're like trying to find a partner. So again, that's where like the self introspection and your own reflection before you start hooking up with people comes in. You have to be realistic that like,
00:19:52
Speaker
If you're somebody where you're just really, you want to partner, don't do this. Just try and date traditionally and find someone who's right for you because you may be messing with your emotions more by engaging, engaging in these casual encounters and then becoming emotionally attached. Yeah. I don't want to take that. And I think that like from all parties, they need to understand that
00:20:17
Speaker
Emotions may happen. You may have the perfect capital scenario where you and this person can have sex 100 times and By the end, there's no feelings. There's mutual respect. You can just shake hands and like walk away But for the majority of people that's not the case and I think that if you're having sex with somebody Especially if you're having sex with somebody more than once
00:20:38
Speaker
You need to welcome the idea that a consequence may be that this person has emotions. And I think the important part is, one, to have check-ins. Even if you're having casual sex with somebody, it's in a text like, hey, how's everything going? How was your experience? How are you feeling about our dynamic? And giving people that space to be honest. And on the flip side, the person who may catch feelings need to be honest with the person that like, hey,
00:21:03
Speaker
I think that I want something more than physical or casual out of you. And I understand that the dynamic that we agreed to originally was something more physical. But if you're interested in exploring something more, I would love to. If not, I understand. And for the other person not to be an asshole and go, oh, hey,
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah, I would like to explore something more with you or no. Thank you for telling me this I'm here. I understand that you have emotions, but right now I'm not in a place to do this with you and I think that like you said you need to everybody needs to manage expectations one party can expect someone to Not have any type of emotional reaction to sex at all and the other side needs to understand that if you get into a that you get into a dynamic under the
00:21:55
Speaker
understanding that is going to be casual, that just because you caught feelings, doesn't mean the other person has just feelings.
Impact of Past Trauma on Casual Sex
00:22:02
Speaker
Yeah. And I think the other really big emotional part of sex that does have to be acknowledged is trauma and trying to have sex. If you do have sexual trauma, that's something where I would consider, you know, trauma is a life after trauma is a lifelong battle.
00:22:23
Speaker
Um, and it'll always be something difficult you're dealing with. However, over time when things are very fresh, it can be a lot harder to deal with and it can be a lot easier to get triggered. Um, whereas when more time has passed, you know, you have more coping mechanisms when you do get triggered. Um,
00:22:48
Speaker
and you can come down from those moments a little bit easier. So that's another thing where I would advise really being realistic with yourself. Like, hey, do I have triggers that can happen during sex? And how will I handle that when I'm with somebody who doesn't even really know me that well? And the end of that conversation may be like,
00:23:15
Speaker
Hey, I think I need to find someone who's like more of a long term sexual partner doesn't necessarily have to be romantic, but just somebody where you have like a little bit more time to discuss like, Hey, these are my triggers. This is a reaction that may happen.
00:23:32
Speaker
and that sort of thing. So that's just another component to keep in
Ending Casual Relationships
00:23:37
Speaker
mind. I guess for a final question before we end the podcast, how do you recommend somebody end a casual relationship? How they end it? How do you end it if you're ready to call it a day? Like you don't want to have sex with them? Yeah. Oh, I think, you know, I think it differs a lot between
00:24:00
Speaker
men and women, but I think that's when as a woman you need to make your boundaries very clear. And that's when you also kind of have to be doing your own research surrounding how somebody reacts to your boundaries. So before you invite this person in your home, before you are alone with them and not in public,
00:24:26
Speaker
test the waters a little bit, say something like, Hey, by the way, I'm going to have to end the night by 11 tonight because I have work tomorrow. See how they react to that. If they react like, Oh yeah, of course, no worries. Yeah. We'll totally finish up by then. Okay. There's somebody, you know, this is a very basic boundary, but they can respect a very basic boundary.
00:24:49
Speaker
if they try to push that boundary, that's when you need to get in the mindset of, I maybe shouldn't have this person in my home and have an encounter with them. But yeah, that's just something women always do with dating is you always have some sort of backup plan in your head when you're meeting someone for the first time that you don't know personally, maybe you met them off a dating app, whether it's a romantic date or
00:25:18
Speaker
you're just needing to hook up. That's kind of something we always have in the back of our head is an excuse, you know? I wish I could say we lived in a world where like, if a man is giving you weird vibes, you can just be like, leave my home and he'll be like, you're right. But that's not how men are.
00:25:40
Speaker
So that is where you need to be a little bit more tactful and kind of do your own research beforehand and test waters and see how they handle a boundary. Let's say you think this person is fine and then you're in your house and you decide you don't want to hook up with them. That's again where you just need to have some kind of excuse in mind, you know. Always share your location with your friends. Always have a friend on standby.
00:26:09
Speaker
who can call you when you text them the code word. Always just have an excuse in your head. And I think building on top of that, both parties should check in during Sykes during the hookup and give the other person room to revoke their consent. And to say, Hey, sorry, I sobered up a little bit. And let's be real, like a lot of people have hookup cultures, or we have hookup
00:26:34
Speaker
Sex and casual sex after like a night of drinking. Hey, I saw what up a little bit I really don't want to do this anymore and the other person goes hey, okay, I get that I'm gonna call myself an over home and It's okay to be disappointed. It's not okay to try to change a person's mind and I think those are two different things I think there's a lot of times in people and in sex this is idea that you're supposed to Not have an emotional reaction as a person who's like
00:27:05
Speaker
the sex is ending for. And I think that's an unfair expectation, which I think what I think the person is expected to do is to respect the person's boundaries, not try to change their mind and not try to use their own disappointment to pressure the other person and to continue having sex. Yeah. All right. Well, I think that this is a wrap for this episode.