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Sibling Rivalry and Family Dynamics
349 Plays9 hours ago
In this episode, Kallie and the crew dive into the complex and often hilarious world of sibling rivalry—what it really means, how it manifests in different family dynamics, and the lifelong impact it can have. The conversation kicks off with a chat about bestselling author Rebecca Yarros, who nearly quit writing before finding massive success in fantasy. This leads to a discussion on perseverance, career highs and lows, and the moments that push us forward when we’re ready to give up.
Then, it’s time for Mom Fails, featuring Caitlin’s toddler regressing back to a pacifier, Megan’s overdue library books, and Kallie’s struggle to feign enthusiasm for her son’s endless house drawings.
The main topic—sibling rivalry—unpacks deep-rooted competition for attention, resources, and parental approval. The hosts share personal experiences, from Charlotte feeling the pressure of “scorekeeping” in her childhood to Caitlin’s realization that she wasn’t always the nicest older sister. They explore how parenting styles, gender, and age gaps shape sibling relationships, and how to navigate the inevitable conflicts.
Key Takeaways:
📌 Parental Language Matters – Kids internalize how they’re spoken about, shaping their roles in the family.
📌 Fighting Isn’t Always Rivalry – Siblings arguing is normal, but long-term tension stems from deeper roots.
📌 Coaching is Key – Encouraging kids to support each other, share, and express their feelings fosters healthier sibling bonds.
Charlotte shares a touching analogy about how hurtful words leave lasting marks on the heart, and Kallie reflects on the unique, irreplaceable bond of siblings—“You’re never going to have another one like this in your whole life.”
The episode wraps up with Pits and Peaks, celebrating Megan’s bird-feeding success, Caitlin’s potty-training win, Charlotte’s talented dog, and Kallie reclaiming her home office.
Tune in for laughs, heartfelt moments, and practical tips on managing sibling dynamics! 🎧
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
But again, that's an easy that's an easy fix on edit because I just mute whenever you're not talking. is Just mute you. Yeah.
Introduction to 'Just for Moms' Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Just for Moms. I'm Charlotte. I'm Caitlin. I'm Megan. And I'm Callie. We are regular moms talking about regular stuff like aging, parenthood, work-life balance, and figuring out what's for dinner, again. no-judgment zone to talk, laugh, and maybe cry about all the things women think about on a daily basis. things i' All right, guys, welcome back to episode eight of Just for Moms. Callie here with Caitlin, Charlotte, and Megan, which I don't know why sometimes when I say her names, like i'm always like,
00:00:41
Speaker
worry what name am I going to say but I'm always like worried I'm going to say a wrong name just gonna like throw throw someone in there I don't know who it'd be you anyways or forget someone I worry I'm go forget someone someone oh that's worse that's why I don't say it Yeah, I think because there's this the Charlotte in the in the Caitlin, which is and then I'm Cal and then it's a C sounds in this and then I get nervous. Yeah, I totally get it. Megan, I'll never forget because it's the M and that's easy.
Rebecca Yaros' Journey to Success
00:01:07
Speaker
Anyways, I want to start today just sort of a little different, but I heard this very interesting story and I thought it'd be fun share because don't know, I just thought it was a nice little story to start off with. So This is a story I heard about Rebecca Yaros. And if you don't know who she is, she's a bestselling author. Caitlin and I obviously know because we're very into her Imperium series, which Onyx Storm just came out. We like texting each other constantly with our theories.
00:01:29
Speaker
But I heard a story about her. So she had been author for years and years. She was a military wife and she was sort of right, like, I guess when he was away or whatever. And she had developed a decent fan base as an author, but she really not didn't get like a lot of not notoriety.
00:01:43
Speaker
And she had sort of decided that she was going to give up on writing. And she was like, I just can't keep doing it. It's really time consuming. And she decided to write one last book before she gave up and completely switch her genre into fantasy. So she had never read a fantasy story before.
00:01:59
Speaker
And then that was the first one of her series, which was Fourth Ring. It came out in 2023. It was like a massive hit instant bestseller. And then she came out with the following two. Onyx Storm just came out in January, which obviously was a bestseller. It was very cool. It was actually sold the most copies in its first, either its first day or its first week of any other book in the last decade.
00:02:22
Speaker
And I just thought it was such a cool story of like one of those moments where I feel like we've all had those moments where it's like, just as you feel like you're about to give up or just as you feel like you're hitting like a failure. It's like success is right around the corner.
00:02:36
Speaker
I just thought it was a very cool story. And I just wanted to like throw it back. out I don't know if you guys have had similar instances or i don't know. I just thought it was like a nice kind of happy story. And I loved it because Kate and and I obviously love our girls. So,
00:02:50
Speaker
It makes me think of Martha
Perseverance and Late Success Stories
00:02:52
Speaker
Stewart because she didn't. Yes. I mean, i remember when I first started and stop teaching and started doing content creation or whatever, blogging.
00:03:02
Speaker
i was in my early 40s and that's sort of when Martha Stewart popped off. And she was on an interview with Katie Couric. And I remember hearing that and going, no way. That's OK. There's still there's still time. Have you seen her documentary?
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's really good. Oh, yes. That's on my list. Thanks for reminding me. Well, I feel like you should never give up on your dreams, but at the same time, you have to have an ending point because you can't.
00:03:26
Speaker
It sucks to think you're chasing something for your entire life and then you never get it. But I heard that story about her, too. And I was like, thank you so much for writing this book. And thank you writing the second and the third. And I hope she's working on the fourth right now.
00:03:41
Speaker
Yes. Well, I just thought it was like, i don't know, it was just interesting that she had never written fantasy before. But yeah, I've had a lot of instances I feel like in my life where either like I felt like what I was about to hit was like the worst thing that could ever happen and then opened the door for something so much better.
00:03:56
Speaker
Or i typically find especially my business, like my most successful periods in my business always come after my worst, like almost always. And I don't know if some of it is just like you have to kind of hit failure to like reassess.
Turning Failure into Creativity
00:04:10
Speaker
And like, that's what forces you to like get creative, at least for me and my business and like sort of switch stuff up. And that's what forces the success. And maybe that's what it was for her, right? She's like, you know what I'm going to go off on this genre that nobody's heard of me doing before, but I really want to do it. And so anyways, I thought it was nice.
00:04:26
Speaker
I love that. And I love to Callie, you brought this up once before. And I i feel like I kind of think the same way sometimes. When anyone like doubts you or there's any neivity negativity towards you or just anything in general, that like triggers me to want to do better, work harder, just anything in general. If it's writing, you know being here as a content creator, whatever it may be. So it just goes to show you, never give up, right?
00:04:53
Speaker
Just keep at it. Totally. I do think those stories, they force me to just try whatever the thing is. And I think part of it is when you work for yourself. And I don't know if I had sort of like a day job with the salary, I wonder if my brain would be thinking of like, what is that next thing going to be quite to the same degree?
00:05:14
Speaker
But I spend a lot of time thinking about like, what else would be, what is that? Like, she probably had that fantasy writing bug that she just never allowed herself to indulge.
00:05:25
Speaker
in. And i do think about like, huh, what is, what is something that I'm curious about that I could lean into and try on for size? And, you know, I like the stories like that motivate me to just give it a shot.
00:05:40
Speaker
I feel like that's what happened to me in the fall when, um, for years, my family has been pushing me to take photos for other people. And I didn't want to, because I doubted myself. And I thought, what if somebody doesn't like the photos I take? And then I was booked for three months solid. I'm doing senior photos and family photos and everybody liked the photos I took. And so had someone not pushed me to do it would I have done it by myself? Probably not because I was too scared that I would fail.
Sharing Personal 'Mom Fails'
00:06:08
Speaker
Wow. What a good segue because next is mom fails. Who's got one? I think we've got a couple maybe. We want to do them kind of quick. Who wants to go first? Real quick, Momfeel, I let Arbor use her pacifier while she had the flu, and now she thinks she can have it all day long, and it's only a crib pacifier.
00:06:24
Speaker
So, yeah. Megan, you have one? Yeah, I just forgot to return the library books. They've been sitting on the bottom of the coffee table. I think they were due before Christmas. The librarian does like us, so I think I'm off the hook, but, you know, those library books.
00:06:40
Speaker
I know. I've got one. My son is ah very into drawing like these very extensive homes like this, like pretend home. Have you ever read the um Charles Van Dusen? If I built a house book? Anyways, he's very like he draws these pictures.
00:06:54
Speaker
And he wants to sit and tell me about the entire house. but like each little room is very detailed. It takes like a minute to tell me about each room and I want to love it. And I want to like ah foster that creativity. It's so cool. But I like, i just, please stop talking about it.
00:07:09
Speaker
Your patience. I feel so horrible saying that because it's so cool, but I'm sure we've all been in those positions with our children. So just sharing it because felt a little mom guilt there, but.
00:07:23
Speaker
Or one thing, Callie, too, do you all, when you read your kids' books, do you skip words sometimes? so you All the time. esther Okay. Charlotte, did you do that when they were younger? Okay. Yes. Cool.
00:07:34
Speaker
It sucks when they can call you out, though. Like, yeah, Eileen straight up calls me out now. She's you skipped a line. yeah i didn't. Why don't you read that one for me? I'll listen.
00:07:45
Speaker
Let's take turns. All right, well, today we are going to get into the meat of the topic. And I feel like we probably have a lot to say about it. So it's good that we can get in quickly. But we were sort of talking about, we wanted to talk about sibling rivalry. But as I was sort of thinking about the episode, it really got me thinking about like what sibling rivalry really means. So i kind of wanted to define it. And so when i looked at what the definition of sibling rivalry is, it says it's a deep rooted competition for attention,
00:08:14
Speaker
resources or parental approval approval and they say that typically that will lead to like long-term tension as opposed to what i think a lot of us sort of throw around the word sibling rivalry but what we really mean is just like the kids are fighting or they're bickering um so i kind of wanted to define the two things because i do think sibling rivalry is a very different thing like a very specific when there is like a very clear competition, whether it's for parental approval or something else, versus just bickering. And we could totally talk about both, but I just wanted to chat about maybe if any of us have had experience specifically with sibling rivalry, or if it's more just with like the everyday struggles of dealing with sibling relationships.
Sibling Rivalry Discussions
00:08:57
Speaker
Will you guys remind me what your so I have a younger sister and a younger brother. We're all three years apart. What is everyone else's sibling dynamic? I have one, one younger brother. My brother is 12 years older than me and my sister's three years younger than me.
00:09:13
Speaker
And then I have one brother who was two years older than me, but he's passed away. How old were you when he passed? You were like, you guys grew up together. You were a little bit older, right? Yeah. I was like 22. Okay. I grew up in a family where I think we did have sibling rivalry. Like I thought that was an interesting clarification in your notes. And I was like, yeah, yeah, that was us.
00:09:32
Speaker
But but yeah I'm sorry, I don't want interrupt. Did you say did you say what yours was? Did I miss it? Yeah, younger sister, younger brother. Okay, I'm sorry. But all three years, right? You said three years apart.
00:09:43
Speaker
Yeah. Very organized. But I also grew up in a time and I've spoken to other friends my age. And I think this was just like ah with the way people parented.
00:09:55
Speaker
Everything was very equitable. So it was like, if you read for 10 minutes with one child, you're going to read for 10 minutes with another. If that child gets a dessert, And there's something wrong with it, but I do think that that, it sets up an interesting dynamic. And I also think that I was kind of just like a very sensitive, moderately insecure, kind of a pain in the ass. And so I think I was very needy in some ways, but not in others. So I think that a lot of the, I just, I was not a nice older sibling, but I felt this deep seated, like I was so flippant
00:10:31
Speaker
threatened and sort of scorekeeping and just aware of the dynamics at home. My brother is six years younger, so he sort of dodged the, you know, the the vitriol and all of the rage. But my sister was just this happy, sweet little middle child comfortable with everything. And it was very, I was not nice to her. And I think I picked up on her just fundamental security.
00:10:55
Speaker
i think my parents would do a lot of like, don't pick on your little sister. Like, I think there were just lots of little things at play. And I remember the book that you had mentioned, Callie, what was it? Sibling Rivalry? I mean, is that?
00:11:06
Speaker
Siblings Without Rivalry. Okay. I think, is it an older book? I don't know how old it is. i don't know. Like, what do you mean by older? Like, would my mother have had this on her nightstand?
00:11:18
Speaker
No, I don't think so. Then she had a book on her nightstand about sibling rivalry. And I, you know, I didn't like it. I wanted to get along with my siblings, but I just remembered not being cool with it.
00:11:30
Speaker
I mean, i your sister, you said, is three years younger than you. So were you a freshman and a senior? in high school. We, I mean, we went away for boarding school, so we would have been, but she's... That age difference, right? Yes, but we never were at the same place at the same time. And maybe that hurt.
00:11:49
Speaker
that Like if we had been at the same place at the same time as we got older, we might've gotten... Like my memories of her are like eighth grade Charlotte and fifth grade my sister. Before you went to school.
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's a bad combo. My sister and I will sit and talk with people and they won't believe when... she'll say that I was mean to her growing up because I've kind of blocked it out. But my senior year of high school, she was a freshman and i apparently was very mean. And I don't, I i don't know why. i think it had to do with the fact that my parents, and they'll say this, that she was the youngest. She, they were more lenient with her. They let her do whatever she wanted. She was dating an older boy. And so I think I was mad about it.
00:12:31
Speaker
And so I just in turn was mean to her. And In my mind, though, she was mean to me because and she'll say, i i walked in your shadow and there's this my freshman English teacher was one of my favorite teachers and she loved me. And then when my sister had her three, four years later, she did not like my sister. And she straight up told my sister, you're nothing like Caitlin.
00:12:57
Speaker
And so that created this issue between us. And so there's definitely rivalry. was there. i mean, I don't think it's there anymore with us. We kind of just laugh about stuff now, but it was high school was rough.
00:13:11
Speaker
like those those years. Yeah, I think a lot of mine was probably just a deep-seated envy or jealousy just at the comfort level that I perceived her to have. And then again, once I got old enough that I felt more comfortable in my own skin, it wasn't such an issue.
00:13:28
Speaker
But I think that sort of knowing has led to how I parent, because i don't think my kids... have that same, I mean, they bicker.
00:13:40
Speaker
and I have one child with ADHD who tends to sort of lock in and hyper focus. And so if that child has decided that the target of whatever frustration is going to be the younger sister, then that's just going to be, he's going to lock into that for a week or whatever. But it's it's not the same dynamic that I remember feeling.
00:14:01
Speaker
i'm i'm I'm the same. I'm hyper aware of it with my three daughters. And my middle daughter will often say things That sounds like something I might've said, or my other, my sister would have said, and I'm i'm so quick to shut it down because if somebody is being treated differently, it's not on purpose.
00:14:19
Speaker
And I'm just trying to parent you guys the way that you're supposed to be parented according to your makeup and your personalities and whatnot. But and this is only the beginning. I know that I'm going to hear this for years and I can just try my best to make sure if they're going to like beat each other up, then they,
00:14:37
Speaker
over whatever they're, just you know, feeling jealous or whatever, that they don't break any bones. So you're both saying that you had, you feel like there was obvious sibling and rivalry when you were younger, but do you you feel like you've fully grown out of it?
00:14:50
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I feel like growing up in my house, because it was only one daughter and one son, like the way my parents were able to parent us and guide us,
00:15:05
Speaker
And our upbringing that it, not that it was easier, but I feel like one boy and one girl, the girl did the girl things, the boy did, you know what I'm saying? So it was like, I know I was not the nicest sister being an older sister.
00:15:18
Speaker
And I feel like our my parents would always be like, be nice to your brother. You know, you need to support him. You need to go to his games. You need to be nice when his friends are over. My parents would always not let me
Encouraging Positive Sibling Relationships
00:15:30
Speaker
have that rivalry, but I feel like I would keep tabs on things, like even like silly things. You know, if he got something something at the mall, then I would be like, well, I need to get something too. Just silly stuff like that. But I just feel like the dynamic wasn't so so rough as like, I know having two girls now, that is like, that butts heads a lot where I feel like,
00:15:52
Speaker
not as much, if that makes sense, with one brother and one sister. They were able to not make the rivalry so intense. You maybe didn't have to assert as much dominance over him in the same way that, I don't know, I'm just, Charlotte, it was you and your sister and me and my sister and somebody needed to be that the one in charge.
00:16:13
Speaker
But you were boy, girl, Callie. Did you did you two get along? Yeah. I mean, we really didn't have, we were pretty close growing. I mean, we bickered for sure, but no, there wasn't any rivalry. We were very close growing up. We were the same age gap that my first two are. And it's the same like boy girl. And I see them doing things.
00:16:32
Speaker
And my husband with his um sister were like an eight year age gap. So he just like, can't remember it. I'm like, I remember doing these things. Like I remember it being just like that. But it's funny you guys say that because actually when I was researching for this episode, they were saying that same genders being close together tend to be more common to have rivalries. And that obviously they say two boys together, it tends to be more of a physical rivalry wherewith two girls together tend to use more verbal rivalry.
00:17:02
Speaker
abuse as they will. But I mean, they did say that they literally said if they're if it goes boy, girl, boy, it tends to sort of break it up. And just statistically, it tends to be a little bit less.
00:17:13
Speaker
So I guess how does that sort of play into Caitlin, you sort of talked about about how does that play into then how you you parent and how you deal with fighting or I guess a lot of it is a lot of it with sibling rivalry is the competition, but that sort of like comparison you know, me versus my sister or the keeping tabs on who got what? For me, I don't know if you were asking Caitlin, but I'm going to answer. For me, i I think I try to focus very specifically on who each of the kids are. I think i because I felt like I was sort of
00:17:45
Speaker
Lopped into like, you're one of the kids. i I think part of it was that I don't know that I felt individualized as much as I needed. And again, there's no way to know if this is perception or reality. So I do think that I try to really be specific with each with each of the kids. And so there's not a lot of like...
00:18:04
Speaker
be nice to your younger sibling because they're younger. It's your younger sibling looks up to you. That's a dynamic I need you to be aware of. That's why you should, I don't know. I guess I just am a little more deliberate with the way I communicate.
00:18:18
Speaker
You know, I don't force any of them to be with each other, but I also think I call it spade a spade. So if, if they are bickering, It takes two to tango. So it's not just like the big kid.
00:18:30
Speaker
You know, I got a lot of just stop. you It's your fault. And I was so frustrated that my younger siblings never got any responsibility. I'll be very quick to say you're part of this younger sibling. I also we just have a lot of them. So I think at some point there's just not as much time for navel gazing. You just got to kind of move on and figure out, which i don't know if that helps.
00:18:51
Speaker
I feel like the my daughters, they are two years and five months apart exactly. So I definitely feel the rivalry of even like silly things like fighting over, like I'm sure this might happen in your house too, Caitlin, like stuff from Sephora, CVS, Starbucks. It's like silly, not really important things, but they butt heads about it. And it's just, I just kind of try to just like wash it out. And I'm like,
00:19:17
Speaker
We're not fighting about this. We share in this house. What's yours is hers. What's hers is mine. And if like, let's say ah Nico soccer game, when he comes in the door, I'll be like, ask your brother, how was soccer game one? How did he do? You need to ask him.
00:19:32
Speaker
I feel like it's a lot to do with the parenting. And I know I was the way I was parent too. It was like, ask your brother, how was day one? And I'd be like, how was your day? You know, even though I didn't want to ask. And then another thing too, that my parents did that here I am being my parents,
00:19:46
Speaker
They would always be like, tell your brother you love him. Tell your brother like this. Tell your brother. And like like still today being 42 and my brother is going to be – how old is Jared going to be? I'm 42. So he's four years younger than me. He'll be like, all right, bye, Meg. Love you. And it's not like – it's just from like our parents always being like, you need to show you care for your brother. You need to support your brother. Like – And I feel like all siblings do have their moments, of course, the bickering and the fighting. But I feel like i having my kids now, I just always try to just nip it in the bud. And I'm like, that's not happening. We're not fighting over like dry shampoo. like
00:20:23
Speaker
Share it. You're making me realize, Megan, that that was not part of my my parents. That was not part of their thing. There wasn't a lot of coaching. And i don't do a lot of coaching, but i I agree with you. I think that's a nice message. I mean, I will say ask how so-and-so's game was, but I don't know. I think that's something maybe I could do better with is, did you congratulate your brother? Yeah. that's a good thought. Like we had like a violin concert for Gianna few weeks ago, Nico had basketball.
00:20:51
Speaker
And I said to him, you're not going to basketball. And he was like, what? And I'm like, no, Gianna has a violin concert. We're all going to the concert. And he's like, well, I don't want to go. I'm like, no, you're going. And, you know, once he got there, his friends were there. So, of course, he was fine. But, like, he was pouting until we got there because he didn't want to go. But I try to tell them, you got to support each other. And, you know, that's that.
00:21:12
Speaker
I get too much into a lot of my daughter's quarrels. And I've taught them now to explain in detail why they're mad at one another, which then in turn has them chasing me around the house, trying to explain why they punched the other one in the neck and, and, and trying to validate that, you know, she deserved it.
00:21:33
Speaker
But I, I don't know why I do this. Cause I don't think my parents did this in my house at all, but I am very aware of how,
00:21:44
Speaker
They treat each other and why they're doing what they're doing. So, and calling them out being, you know, nine out of 10 times, if there's a fight and Annabelle saying, Eileen did something wrong, Eileen probably did something first.
00:21:58
Speaker
Or no, Annabelle probably did something first. my old old My oldest is very sneaky and she'll be like, oh, I didn't do anything wrong. And then you find out, you know, Eileen walked by and she pulled like a piece of her hair.
00:22:09
Speaker
She'll say she was just playing, but that just, that turns into- World War three So we talk a lot in our house about everything. You talk it through.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah. And I, okay, no, now as I'm talking, I'm realizing my parents didn't do this. And I wish that they did because me and my sister, there was a lot of miscommunication. So my sister should have told me I was mean to her in high school.
00:22:32
Speaker
And maybe we would have liked each other sooner because there were a couple of years where we didn't like each other. We just couldn't get along. we We felt like we had nothing in common. And Once we got over it and and grew up and learned how to talk through our problems, now she's my best friend.
00:22:47
Speaker
And I want my kids to like each other. You can't force them to. But I always say, you know, you're you're together forever. There's nothing you can do about it. Your kids are young, Callie. Are you beginning to see the dynamics or is it a little too soon to tell? Yeah, I mean, I think we're probably too young for anything that could be sibling rivalry. But I mean, we have constant, I mean, I have a four and a six-year-old that are, you know, they bicker constantly.
00:23:11
Speaker
And I think a big thing that I work on doing is I feel like when we hear them bickering, they're we want to go in right away and try to like remedy the situation. and I feel like I find myself constantly like stepping back because I feel like I don't, I don't want them to have to come to me for every single quarrel that they have, because most of them are stupid. You know, I mean, most of them are, he took my car, she took my whatever.
00:23:36
Speaker
And I think a beautiful thing about sib siblings is that it does teach you you communicate with people. i mean, it's been proven that people who have siblings, they, you know, they learn to communicate better, they learn to compromise better. And so like, who am I to get in the way of them learning those lessons?
00:23:51
Speaker
So it's, it's always a fine line, though, of of when do I step in And often I try to wait as long as I can. And then if it's something where I feel like then we need to talk about it after that I'll come in after and I'll be like, let's talk about, let's talk about what just happened and sort of go through what you were, you know, how were you What did you think was happening? And what did she and let everybody sort of um have their say about it.
00:24:14
Speaker
But at my kids age, typically, if I get involved, typically, if I get involved too early, it just becomes this name calling. Well, he did it. And well, i did it because he did it. And it's just very unhelpful.
00:24:25
Speaker
And I find that lots of times if I sort of step back up like around the corner, they can remedy it themselves a lot of the time. And I find that that's really nice for them to be able to do that. And again, i don't want them to have to always bother me.
00:24:39
Speaker
They have a rule at the kids school. And I forget, he I think it's good. They call it three before me. And the idea is that they're supposed to try to find three other people or three other ways to solve a problem before they come to you. So it's sort of that that same idea.
00:24:52
Speaker
You know, it's it's different because it's little kids. But do all of your children get handsy with each other? Slap each other around? Oh, yeah. Yeah, lots of
Birth Order and Sibling Dynamics
00:25:01
Speaker
hitting. Charlotte, do your kids hit?
00:25:03
Speaker
ah Certainly not anymore. I don't remember there being too much hitting. That's good. I may have blacked it out, but I think our, I think our birth order was helpful because we have the girl, boy, girl, girl, boy, the first two girl, boy,
00:25:19
Speaker
They would take or leave each other. They never had issues. The two girls in the middle, they they're very different. So they get along. But my middle is just so chill that she's almost like she wouldn't even bother to bicker. She just would walk away.
00:25:36
Speaker
Yeah. The mediator, right? She's just like, she's roll her eyes. Wow, that's special. like that. yeah She's sneaky. We used to laugh that if, it just in a very sort of savvy way, we would laugh that you know she's going to be the one like peeking out from behind the dumpster as the kids are getting put into the back of the cop's car one day. like she's She's involved, but she knows enough to just back away when shit's about to hit the fan. Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:03
Speaker
And I think, I think dynamic is so, cause now that my third born is ah about to turn two, it's like, he's kind of entering the chat a little bit. Right. So now he is him and my, my second and my third. Now they kind of play together and there's, I'm starting to see like what that dynamic is going to be. So before it was always just miles and Finley, the older two, that was the only dynamic I really had to worry about. So it will be interesting to see as, as the other kids sort of enter how it goes.
00:26:28
Speaker
But I want to go back to how you were saying about coaching, and Megan. I feel like that's not something I ever really thought about, but I have found myself when my, i would say when my second born was like one, when she got to the age where she could sort of like walk around and knock over my son's towers and he would start to get mad and that start, that bickering started to happen. remember, I remember,
00:26:48
Speaker
We had like a really rough time and it was that I hit that point of like, what did I do bringing like another child into the situation? Like I felt like I couldn't ever leave them even alone for a minute because somebody was going to do something to bother somebody else.
00:27:01
Speaker
And I remember I just like talking to them and I would in my head say to them, like, well, you know, Miles is your best friend or Finley is your best friend. You guys are brother and sister. You guys are best pals. And it was almost like the way that we talked to them. They do internalize it a little bit. And they have since sort of said those things. And I don't expect that they're going to be best friends for forever. And I know that they'll probably have times where like it comes and goes. so But I think the way that we talk to them about each other and their relationships with each other. I do think that it matters. And the book that you talked about, Charlotte, the book Siblings Without Rivalry, like I cannot recommend it enough.
00:27:33
Speaker
I feel like it's for slightly older kids than my kids. Like maybe Miles is starting to get into it, but it was a really nice book to read just about the general... like foundation of sort of how you speak to your children about the other children in the home.
00:27:47
Speaker
It's also a really nice book if you have children that are bickering and that are maybe being physical just to make you feel better and be like, okay, well, it's not just like my children that do stuff like that, where I feel appalled that they would do that to each other.
00:27:58
Speaker
But there are three things in that book that in general have like helped me so much like big takeaways. And one of them is that They internalize the way that you talk about them.
00:28:10
Speaker
and I feel like especially when we have multiple children, we do tend to talk about like, oh, that's my the middle child. And she's like the wild second born or, you know, my first born. And he's always following the rules. And it was sort of that reminder of like, careful how you're talking about them, because they will just sort of take on that role.
00:28:25
Speaker
Like if they are constantly hearing themselves talked about that way, they will take on that role. So I've become
Teaching Empathy Among Siblings
00:28:30
Speaker
very conscious of, like I'll chat about it with like my mom or Michael and I will laugh about it, but I'm very careful about them hearing me say these things about them.
00:28:38
Speaker
And then the other thing that I thought was really interesting in the book is how we can say, hey, we're all best friends. Like this is a family and we all love each other, but still allow them to have the ability to air their frustrations.
00:28:50
Speaker
Like constantly when my children are in fights now, I'll be like, listen, I get it. Like Finley is being annoying. She annoys me sometimes. Like it's hard having a four-year-old in the house. Like, and they need to have that space to be like, this is a family. We all love each other. We work together, but like, that's annoying. Like I get it.
00:29:07
Speaker
And to have that space to be able to do that. Cause I do think that sometimes we're always just trying to be like, no, no, no We all love each other. and then they just feel like, no, this sucks. And this is annoying. And I don't like it.
00:29:17
Speaker
I feel like this is when, the school counselor in me comes out because if there's bickering, like I'm not going to solve it. I more often than not, I will, I have one child that is always the victim and is very emo. And so my tack with her is usually under, you know, validate how you're feeling. This is so frustrating. I hear what you're saying.
00:29:40
Speaker
i I, don't like it when you know, that sibling does that either. It's a pain in the neck. It's annoying. You're right. However, you have got to learn when to stop.
00:29:51
Speaker
Like she could go on for hours being the victim of whatever. And it's like, you got to cut the cord and just pull the, get out. And then, you know, when the older kids are being tough, I will pull them aside and, you know, illuminate a little bit and say, you have no idea what it's like, you know, this, your younger siblings look up to you so much. And so, you know, when you say X, Y, or Z, that just, you know, I do try to kind of be a little more,
00:30:17
Speaker
what's the word, I guess, illuminate what might be going on to shed some light on those dynamics. And I don't, I don't remember that happening with my parents so much. I feel like in my house, it's like a trickle effect. Like we have the Ava, the oldest, then Gianna, then Nico and Ava's mean to Gianna and they butt heads. And then Gianna's mean to Nico and it just slides down.
00:30:40
Speaker
But one thing I've noticed is sometimes I'll vent ah to Gianna about Ava, like, oh my gosh, she missed the bus again. Like, she needs to get it together. Like, I don't understand. And Gianna will be like, even though Ava is so mean to Gianna, Gianna will be like, mom, you know what?
00:30:57
Speaker
Like, just be quiet. She's going to do what she wants to do and just drive her to school. Just do it and stop talking about it. And I'm like, wait, isn't she always mean to you? Like, why do you have her back? Like, it's funny how they stick together, even though there's that like rivalry and it's, it happens so often. And I'm just like shocked by it. And I'm just like,
00:31:19
Speaker
okay, maybe they do like each other. Like they just don't like show it. I love it when they band together, when they band, like if they'll come up and tattle about like so-and-so's watching a movie or, and I'll be like, listen, you're welcome to share that information with me, but they're the only sibling you have. So if I were you, I would keep that to myself because the next time you're sneaking a device, guess who's going to come and rat you out.
00:31:40
Speaker
I always tell mine, my two oldest, like you guys were in the trust tree. Be in the trust tree together. Unless it's something bad, then come tell me. But i don't don't don't tell me she snuck the slime out in her bed to play with it again. Our biggest problem right now in our house is not my two oldest fighting all the time or bickering taking each other's stuff. It's my toddler who is trying to show everyone that she has a place in this family too.
00:32:06
Speaker
Because she is straight up mean. She did something really naughty because she wanted Annabelle to play with her and Annabelle was doing her homework. Annabelle's yelling at me like, I don't know what to do, mom. She just, she's doing this and I'm trying to do my homework and I'm like, she's showing you she's the boss.
00:32:23
Speaker
But she just, she's in that cause and effect stage of development, which is it's so aggravating. But when I but had like a grad school class on it and I was like, that's actually fascinating.
00:32:34
Speaker
She's trying to establish like, what are the systems that we have in place in the world, in my family. And so like, they'll just keep doing it. And it's like, okay, so that, that was too far.
00:32:46
Speaker
Is this too far? And it's, it's like, it's compounded because she has these two older sisters that I'm sure she just like worships the ground they walk on. Right. So she's trying to, yeah, she loves them. And then, you know, she'll, she'll play favorites and she calls Annabelle Addis and Ailey's Aya and she'll go up to Ailey and she'll say,
00:33:07
Speaker
I don't like Abbas today. And I'm like, please don't say that. We don't say if we don't like each other, but she just plays off of them. And it's, it's more fun actually than frustrating to watch it as long as it stays tame.
00:33:20
Speaker
Because it is, you know, she's only three and it's interesting to see how she navigates the world. I also think what's interesting, and we can start to wrap it up, but is that each of my children sort of ah navigate them the way that they bicker differently.
00:33:36
Speaker
Like my oldest is, he's one of those people that like he wants an apology when he feels like he's been wronged. You know what i mean? Like that's what's going to make him feel better. Or he wants, you know, he wants Finley to come over And, you know, like make up where Finley's fine to just like move on.
00:33:51
Speaker
Like, okay, well, you know, we we fought. and we So that's a whole dynamic, too, of like making each of them. I'm not going to force her to just apologize when she doesn't feel sorry or she doesn't know what that means even developmentally.
00:34:05
Speaker
but it's like he really wants that. So that's like been a whole sort of piece to navigate. We had this moment. this past weekend where she ripped one of his books and he was very upset. He really wanted her to say sorry. But I was like, just her, first of all, forcing her to say sorry, like, what's it going to do?
00:34:19
Speaker
But we ended up, I ended up taking her downstairs and she taped his book back together. And so kind of went upstairs and like gingerly gave it to him. And like, it was just this like really beautiful moment. It was like her sort of way of saying sorry. And he felt like he had gotten like that apology that he needed.
00:34:36
Speaker
But like, that's like a whole nother piece too, right? Because they're all going to, feel different ways when they feel like they've been wronged or certain ways that are then going to make them feel better. And the way that they apologize. Yeah. Eileen will write everyone in the house and I'm sorry, no, for everything. And Annabelle, she'll be like, let's just hug it out and walk away. I'm like, no you got to do a little bit more than that. you know, maybe you should write a letter like Eileen did.
00:35:01
Speaker
Yeah. I have one that doesn't, and They're so busy kind of thinking about the next thing or like their own world that it it's very hard to kind of teach people.
00:35:13
Speaker
when you did this to this sibling, like it just doesn't occur to them to understand how that person felt, because they've just moved on. And I've had times where it's like, I need you to understand that i this is one of my children.
00:35:28
Speaker
I love, I love this child. And when you say or do X, Y, and Z, like you're hurting me too, because it's like, that's, it's like the psychological warfare of parenting is never ending.
00:35:40
Speaker
And I think that does resonate because in their brain, siblings are just like a different category. You know, they're just, you can like step over them, but to bring it back to just the humanity of it is a attack that I've had to take
The Importance of Sibling Bonds
00:35:57
Speaker
rarely. It's not my favorite moment, but it's, I don't know. I feel like we're always just trying to figure out.
00:36:01
Speaker
i I agree, Charlotte. I always say to the sisters and My house. Like, how do you think that melt or make her made her feel? Do you think that made her feel good? Cause it probably didn't. You know, I feel like I'm always the feeling person like you. I'm, I just like, I don't like that. They talk nasty to each other or do things to each other.
00:36:20
Speaker
It's yeah. And it's, I'm sure it hurts them inside. Maybe it doesn't, but I hear it and the words and I don't like it. So I'm just like, how don't say that. Cause you wouldn't like someone saying that to you either. My daughter came home and then we can move on. But I thought this might be a nice sort of wrap up. Her teacher had done this with them. I think they have a tricky class. She cut out a heart from paper and she was like, OK, this is your heart.
00:36:43
Speaker
And every time someone says something that may not make you feel great and then she like wrinkled a little corner or folded it over and she was like that crushing your heart. And she was like, I can smooth the heart back out, but you will always see the wrinkles that were there. So it's sort of the opposite of sticks and stones, I guess. You'll move on and you'll probably be fine, but you can't.
00:37:06
Speaker
And like some of the things that you guys say to each other, to your point, Callie, it's the best part about having siblings is that it's like a dress rehearsal and you get to practice. But yeah I do think there's a time and a place when as parents, that's also our job to say like, okay, time out.
00:37:20
Speaker
yes Yeah. Words can be hurtful. Yeah. And siblings, it's like a unique, I mean, like people say, it's a very unique relationship. You're never going to have another one like this in your whole life where somebody is with you from childhood and they're raised the same way that you were raised.
00:37:35
Speaker
We had our, my older two got this big sort of to do. It was like maybe a month ago and it was right at bedtime. They share a bedroom. It was this whole thing. And my son stored out of the room and he didn't want to sleep in the same room as, as Finley.
00:37:48
Speaker
And we ended ended up kind of coming together and we had this like really beautiful moment. And I was talking to, I don't, I think it went over Finley's head, but I was talking to Miles about it and I was like, you know that I had a brother growing up and I said, I don't have him anymore.
00:37:58
Speaker
I was like, it's a very special thing to, you know, it was this very beautiful and and like he was like crying, you know, it was this like very beautiful moment. But it was sort of this reminder of like you have this very special dynamic and it's hard. There's a lot of parts about it that are very hard, but there'll be nobody else in your life where you're going to have this relationship forever that they knew you, you know, through your whole life. And so, yeah, I think it's important for us as parents to like preserve that for them in a way.
00:38:26
Speaker
And to point it out because that's, you know, that's that's not a big idea that ah a little kid has. They don't, they don't recognize that. And I say, yeah. Um, uh, there's someone I call my sister. She grew up, she had no siblings. Her mom passed away when she was young. She was my sister's best friend, but my children know her as her, their Zia.
00:38:47
Speaker
And I'll tell them all the time, you know, Zia grew up without any sisters. She had nothing in her house and, Then her mom passed away and Auntie Lizzie and I brought her into us and, you know, we take care of her.
00:39:00
Speaker
We have this bond. That's what the three of you have. You have this special bond. And I want you to remember that you're allowed to not like each other sometimes, but you have, this is really, you're lucky because Zia didn't have that. She had nobody else.
00:39:14
Speaker
That's nice that you did that and explain that to him though, because that's not. i I just have to say, I think you ladies are doing a lovely job with your children because I can't tell you how many times my kids have said someone said something mean to them at school.
00:39:28
Speaker
And the first thought that goes through my mind is, I wonder if their parents know they said that. And, or is that what they're hearing in their home? Or where's this coming from? Because if my kids ever said that, I, it didn't come from me.
00:39:42
Speaker
And so the way that you talk to your children, it's, you know, it's important. And explaining life and relationships. I don't know. Jesus, take the wheel. okay i know.
00:39:53
Speaker
Words can be hurtful. I know. All right. Pits and peaks. Who wants to go first? Oh, I'll go. We have a bird feeder on our window. And last year there was all this drama because it was on the big window. It didn't work. It was on the slider. It didn't work. Now it's ah it's been on the kitchen window for almost a year and the birds are still coming and I put seed in it and a few of them look pregnant. They're probably pregnant already, right?
00:40:17
Speaker
No? No. They're just, it's winter. Oh, okay. I didn't know. Don't the robins have their babies in March or something? I don't know. I'm not a bird lady, but I like watching them eat at my, when I'm doing the dishes. Like they'll come and I'll be like, wait, how does a bird look pregnant?
00:40:35
Speaker
It's tummy. It's tummy. I don't know. It looks like what? All right. It's winter. He's beefed up. I mean, it is February. Don't the Robins? Yeah. I thought the Robins had their babies. Is that just the thing my parents told me and it wasn't true? I don't know. Anyways.
00:40:50
Speaker
Okay. Next. The whole science of babies with birds and the, and with eggs and the egg, just that whole concept. Just, idle yeah I don't, I don't fully like I need to watch a Smithsonian video on that.
00:41:03
Speaker
It looks like there's eggs in there. I'm going to take a picture for you ladies the next time. Please don't. Please don't. Of course, Caitlin. Caitlin always wants to see the animal photos. Yeah, I do.
00:41:16
Speaker
I have a little peek, just a teeny dribble of a peek. Arbor is refusing to potty train because she associates potty training with wearing under underwear with being a big girl. and She doesn't want to be a big girl.
00:41:29
Speaker
But last night, i she was running around naked and I made her sit on the potty. And then she got up and went and took a bath. And like two hours later, I came in and I noticed she had peed on the potty.
00:41:39
Speaker
And she didn't even tell me She did like just a little tinkle. And of course, I tell her older sisters and they both look at each other and they go, I didn't pee in there. Did you pee in there? They were bla like trying to say one did it as a treat to me. But yeah, so I celebrated the tiny peepee. And then she told me she was never doing it again. So, okay.
00:41:59
Speaker
Time for a lot of big girl activities that Arbor can't participate in. That's right. She doesn't want to be a big girl. It's too bad. We're going to Quasi. Only for big girls. to craft on the pod I mean, to be fair, Arbor, I don't really want to be a big girl either. i don't.
00:42:15
Speaker
I understand. don't know. You have one for us, Charlotte. I have a peek, but it is related to animals, if that makes you feel better. Our damn dog, man. I tell you what this dog has figured out how to get into.
00:42:28
Speaker
So I come down. i record and um in my office downstairs. She won't hang out here. Like, I want her to be a shop dog, but she won't. So I leave her up with the other dog in the kitchen area. I went up there, and she had figured out how to open the pantry. She had taken out, like, any low-hanging – I don't even know what was in them. I'm hoping it was nothing bad.
00:42:47
Speaker
And she just was like helping herself to the granola, the oatmeal, whatever. So, I mean, I need to get a trainer involved, but I don't like, she's very smart. And that is a problem. but So is that a peak or a pit?
00:42:59
Speaker
Yeah. You called it a peak, which you do a lot. I do a lot. It was a pit. It was smart. You have a smart dog. That's the peak. She's smart. Celebrate her intelligence. Not like, I guess, Callie's dog.
00:43:12
Speaker
No, she's stupid.
00:43:16
Speaker
She's sitting on over there right now just looking at me. um ah And now she's barking. She heard you. how dare you? oh i have a peek. um actually I actually, didn't think of one. And then all of a sudden I was like, I need to think of a pitter of peek.
00:43:31
Speaker
I'm finally getting my office back at my new house. So we used to have, i used to have a studio space at my old house because it was down the street and that was great. And now it's like 20 minutes from here at our new house.
00:43:42
Speaker
And it's just not feasible for me to drive all the way there. So I've ended my lease there and they are bringing my like furniture here. I'm going to have like a proper, desk I'm literally just sitting on a fold-out desk right now. I'm going have a desk and I keep telling everyone about my second screen that I miss. And so that happens on Thursday. And so that'll be nice to just like have a proper place to work again.
00:44:05
Speaker
Yeah. Share the before and after, Callie. Well, I'm in an attic still, so there's not it's not pretty. I know it this looks nice, but if you're watching on on video, I'm in an attic. Love it. There's not cute before and afters, but it'll be nice to have a functional desk.
00:44:20
Speaker
Okay. All right, this is the time of the podcast where I remind you to leave us a review wherever you're listening to us. Yeah. I mean, whichever. Five is ideal. But really just reviews in general. They do really help us out. It's sort of in the podcast world, like the equivalent of – of i don't I don't know, i'm a paycheck? I'm not trying to say we're not getting paid for this, but whatever the it's equivalent of, like a good, I don't know. i There's no train of thought, but it's helpful it does when you do it. And yeah, lenna like, follow, and subscribe. See ya.
00:44:50
Speaker
Bye. Bye. Bye.