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What is Consensual Non-Monogamy (1-6)
151 Plays2 years ago
Welcome back to Fun With Sex Podcast, where hosts Jon and Nat delve into the fascinating world of intimacy, relationships, and everything in between. In this episode, we embark on an enlightening journey through the realms of non-monogamy. Join us as we navigate the intricate landscape of non-monogamous dynamics, from defining its essence to examining the dearth of representation in mainstream discourse. We'll explore the myriad forms of non-monogamy, from polyamory to open relationships, and discuss the importance of embracing diversity within these frameworks. Get ready for an insightful conversation that challenges assumptions, sparks curiosity, and celebrates the rich tapestry of human connection. Tune in and let's explore the boundless possibilities of love and intimacy together!
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Transcript
Introduction to Non-Monogamy
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Fun with Sex podcast. I'm Natalie. And I'm her co-host John. And today we're going to be talking about the different types of non-monogamy. So fun fact, 20% of Americans have admitted that they've been involved in a non-monogamous relationship. While not all 20% are still in non-monogamous relationships, that is a huge percentage of the population. For perspective,
00:00:28
Speaker
20% of Americans is the combination of Texas and California combined plus people.
Society's Monogamous Lens
00:00:35
Speaker
So a lot of Americans have tried non-monogamy before. I think an important thing to note is that we live in a monogamous society. So the only images and representation that we get of relationship types is of monogamous. So like a lot of Americans have no idea what non-monogamy is.
00:00:55
Speaker
where to see representation and the different ways to do relationships. So later on in the podcast series, we're going to talk about our different experiences from non-monogamy, uh, different types of ways that other people do non-monogamy. But before we just want to have like a hard definition of what is non-monogamy.
Defining Non-Monogamy
00:01:16
Speaker
So Natalie, what do you think non-monogamy is? I think non-monogamy is any type of relationship where
00:01:25
Speaker
The dynamics are not confined by only two people engaging in a relationship or engaging in a sexual dynamic I agree that I think that no monogamy is anything that is this where Two more than two or two people in a relationship Have either emotional or physical intimacy with other people and I think that's something a lot of people forget is that there is none monogamous relationships where
00:01:55
Speaker
The couples aren't having sex or physical intimacy with other people, but they're emotionally involved with other people, which I think falls under the category of non-monogamy. Yeah, I totally agree.
Cheating and Desires
00:02:07
Speaker
Because one of the biggest ways that non-monogamy shows up in our society, although it's not ethical, is cheating. And people do tend to forget that emotional cheating is a thing.
00:02:21
Speaker
you know, having feelings for another person, engaging in emotional intimacy or a dynamic that isn't exactly platonic, that's still a relationship dynamic in a way outside of your primary relationship. And I think that's important about the 20% statistic is that 20% of people identify, or 24% of people say that they have been in a non-monogamous relationship, but that means they identified the relationship as non-monogamous.
00:02:49
Speaker
Whereas there is a lot of couples who have experienced either emotional or physical cheating, and that's non-monogamy. It's not consensual non-monogamy. It's not ethical non-monogamy, but it's non-monogamy, which means that for a lot of people, they desire non-monogamous relationships. They still feel attraction to other people. They still feel desires to connect with people physically or emotionally.
Barriers to Non-Monogamy
00:03:12
Speaker
It's just the fact that
00:03:14
Speaker
A, they don't want their partner to do the same, or B, they don't know that non-monogamy is an option, or actually C, they're too afraid to communicate that they desire a non-monogamous relationship out of fear of their partner having a bad reaction to it.
00:03:31
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. I think there's so many things holding people back from engaging in a non-monogamous dynamic. And the biggest thing is either worrying that your partner won't be into it or we'll take it the wrong way. And just in general, it's a really difficult thing to do because it is outside of the societal norms.
00:03:52
Speaker
And that's why I think the representation for non-monogamous couples is so important because I think that a lot of people would be into it if they knew that non-monogamy was an option. But we're raised in a society where
00:04:06
Speaker
It's not that monogamy is the only option. Monogamy is the only thing that's presented to you.
Media Misrepresentation
00:04:12
Speaker
And media is doing a little bit better job of presenting non-monogamous and polyamorous relationships. The problem is that those relationships are either A, the butt of a joke, or B, they make them look so unhealthy that people don't want to be involved in non-monogamous relationships.
00:04:30
Speaker
I mean, like, look at Will Smith and Jaden Smith. Like, that's when people think of non-monogamy. They think of couples like that, or they think of what is the show hunting for a third or something like that? Or is this a couple hunting for unicorns? Or when they think of play parties, they think of, like, the sexual abuse is going on with Diddy right now. And so the only representation that people get of non-monogamy is this super unhealthy dynamics that isn't the experience for most people that's in it.
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah. And I think another big thing people think about is different gender biases.
Gender Bias in Non-Monogamy
00:05:06
Speaker
There's an assumption of different gender biases when it comes to nominogamy. A lot of people think about the very stereotypical like polygamous Mormon family where it's one man with like seven wives and he can't possibly fulfill
00:05:24
Speaker
emotional needs of all these partners and it's like well that is unethical non-monogamy. That isn't what non-monogamous people today for the most part are pushing for. Or they think about the boyfriend who coerces his girlfriend into non-monogamy. That's another thing that I've realized is that
00:05:44
Speaker
A lot of people outside of the non-monogamous community can't fathom that women also want to participate in non-monogamy. It's also it's always like, oh, their boyfriend is forcing them to do this or blink if you need help because your boyfriend is like forcing you to have sex with other women. But in reality, like a lot of women really enjoy the autonomy and the independence that non-monogamy gives them. Yeah, 100 percent. And I think the other there's not just a gender bias when people think about non-monogamy.
Historical and Cultural Contexts
00:06:14
Speaker
There's also a sexual component to it, a sexuality component where non-monogamy has been going on in queer relationships for decades upon decades. I mean, when you think about original queer relationships back in the day, it was kind of rare that these people were monogamous because typically
00:06:38
Speaker
especially eating a queer woman, your only ability to succeed in life is you had to have a male partner. You couldn't do anything if you didn't have that. So it was very typical for a queer woman to have multiple partners, you know, the person that you're living with and you have the official marriage title with, and then your actual lover. And, you know, obviously there was a lot of scenarios where
00:07:05
Speaker
the straight partner didn't know about this, but there was also a lot of scenarios where the straight partner did know and they just accepted that they were in a non-monogamous relationship. And even today you see it, it's a lot more common in the queer community.
00:07:19
Speaker
It's way more common in the queer community. I'm actually going to do a podcast episode on call, How Love Conquered Marriage is based off of a book by the same title. I forgot the author, amazing PhD work. But basically she wrote this book that details the history of modern marriage. And before the idea was marrying out of love was seen as immature.
00:07:41
Speaker
you married for economic or political reasons. But then you had a lover on the side. And that's the person that you had love with. That's why they were your lover. And the person you were married with was the person you raised kids, you did the political and economic stuff.
00:07:55
Speaker
but when you want your physical desires, you go to this other person. So non-monogamy has been with us since all of history. Roman and Greek writing talks about people with multiple lovers. The Bible, while that's polygamy, talks about non-monogamy and people with multiple wives. Again, we don't support polygamy, but just detailing that this has been, non-monogamy has been with us as long as monogamy has been with us.
00:08:20
Speaker
And it's just the fact that different relationship styles present themselves to different people in different cultures, in different environments, in different periods of time. I forgot where I was going with the last one. But the general point is that monogamy and non-monogamy traditionally both exist within the human species for as long as we've been human. Yeah, exactly.
00:08:44
Speaker
I think it's very interesting because when you look at other cultures, love isn't this thing that is defined in three buckets where it's familial love, it's friendship love, it's romantic love, and that's all it can be. When you look at other languages, they actually have several different words for love.
00:09:06
Speaker
because there's just so many different types of love. And I think the really strange thing about being non-monogamous in a monogamous society is people can understand loving multiple people and having different but similar dynamics with multiple people when it comes to friendship, family. But for some reason, when it's a romantic partner, it can only be one.
00:09:31
Speaker
And that's the thing that I like to explain to people is that you can have multiple friends and you can still have a best friend or not have a best friend. And I understand that I have room to love all these different people. But then when it comes to relationship types, we're like, oh, well, that's not possible. You can't love or physically interact with one person and then interact with another and still love that first person. But we don't hold that same logic with friendships. We don't hold that same logic with family.
00:10:00
Speaker
And so why do we hold that logic with physical and emotional relationships? Besides that concept has been indoctrinated in us. And I think a lot of it goes down to, you know, the puritanical roots in America and the religious roots, you know, everybody who emigrated here before we became an official country, a lot of them were religious extremists and people who are very devout religious people.
00:10:27
Speaker
And they all just so happen to practice religions that are based in Christianity. And in Christianity, there's this belief that there can only be one. I mean, even today, many Christians, you know, I've heard of people where they get divorced and, you know, they've decided they've annulled the marriage. They've said this doesn't work for me and they still won't get married to someone else or
00:10:56
Speaker
their spouse passes away because they have this Christian belief that you can only have one and marriage is something that lasts forever. And love is a commitment for eternity. You can't have that same commitment to other people because then it waters it down. It's not sacred. And I think that's the thing that doesn't reflect the reality is that for most people's relationships are ever changing dynamic things.
Personal Needs and Non-Monogamy
00:11:25
Speaker
I mean, you don't have to look any further than a divorce rate. Isn't it like half of all marriages end a divorce? And that's not me shitting on monogamy. That's me bringing up the fact that we are changing individuals and the person that you married and that you're dating at the start of your relationship.
00:11:42
Speaker
may not be the person that you're dating 20 years because people change just who they are. And not to mention, none monocamy helps with that because, hey, I changed to a different person. I have new needs in my life. You may not be able to check all those boxes. You check eight out of the 10 of the things I need in my life. So in a monogamous relationship, I would either have to
00:12:06
Speaker
sacrifice those other two things that I feel like I need, or I would have to leave the person I'm with to go find someone else who checks 10 out of 10 boxes that I need. While in a non-monographers relationship, I could say, hey, this person checks eight out of the things that I need in my life. I'm going to go find somebody else who checks the other two things I need in my life, and I can love them both. Yeah, exactly. And going back to representation, I think that a very important thing to talk about is
00:12:34
Speaker
how non-monogamy representation also mirrors other representation of marginalized groups. I'm not going to compare the history of non-monogamy to queer communities because like non-monogamy people have not been crucified in the same way that queer communities has.
00:12:50
Speaker
But for a long time, a lot of queer people didn't realize that they were queer, didn't realize that they were pan, didn't realize that they were gender fluid, because they didn't know that that was an option, because there was no type of representation in books that they read, in the TV shows that they watch, or any other media that they consume, that someone can be gender fluid, if that makes sense. Whereas,
00:13:13
Speaker
Same thing with non-monogamy, if all you see is monogamous, monogamous, all the books you read, all the media consume is one man, one woman, you don't know that there's other options out there that can be explored. Yeah, exactly. So we spent a good 15 minutes talking about this topic. We also want to talk about how non-monogamy is also not a monolith, just like all relationships are different. Non-monogamy comes in multiple different forms and
00:13:41
Speaker
I think a lot of people think of non-monogamy as antithetical to monogamy, but in reality, how do I say this? In reality, a healthy relationship is a healthy relationship if that makes sense. And like if you have trust, communication, and consent, that's the pillars of a healthy relationship and the ways that those manifest themselves are different. So we're going to talk about the different forms
Forms of Non-Monogamy
00:14:07
Speaker
of non-monogamy. I guess working our way from
00:14:13
Speaker
closest to monogamy down. The first topic I like to call is monogamish and like people who are into threesomes. How would you describe those couples? I think for those people, there's somebody where typically the way they're engaging with the person outside of their primary relationship is mainly sexual. They may have like a friendship with them, but it isn't probably something they define as a full blown relationship.
00:14:41
Speaker
I define it as couples who, if you ask them what do they identify as, they'll say they identify as monogamous, but they're still willing to have sex with a third person together. Some couples do it as, hey, if one of us is traveling and we're out of town, we can flirt or make out or even go as far as having sex with somebody else while traveling. I would personally define them as non-monogamous.
00:15:10
Speaker
between a relationship, they decide that they identify themselves as monogamous. I'm not going to argue with that. But they're like the closest to monogamous where like they see themselves only dating and marrying each other. They call themselves sexually exclusive with quote unquote exceptions. And I think that's like for a lot of people when they first step out of non-monogamy or when they first step out of monogamy,
00:15:38
Speaker
This is what they step into, a couple that's like, hey, let's have a threesome together. Or, hey, maybe we can flirt with different people at the bar. Yeah. The second group that I will call is Swingers. They're, I think, still the closest to your traditional monogamous couple. How would you just find Swingers before I go into them?
00:16:01
Speaker
I think those people, um, the difference is they're open to group plays. So play with four more people, but it still is very much confined by their relationship and the specific roles they have. So a lot of them, you know, it's very heteronormative. You just kind of switch partners. You're not always playing as much of a group as you may with like ENM people who are kind of more open.
00:16:31
Speaker
And then they also tend to have stricter boundaries when it comes to things they only do within their relationship. So they may only soft swap, which is like kissing and maybe had a no penetration and stuff like that. I think like I would define swingers as people who are still emotionally monogamous and emotionally exclusive, but they're more open to having sex with
00:17:00
Speaker
even like with swingers you can break down to oh my god there's so many sub genres of swingers there's people who as much as i disagree with this the women are allowed to only play with each other and like the men are not allowed to play with each other's wives even though this is like it's their relationship boundary i do have personal issues with it being that it almost invalidates women on women relationships yeah with the idea that
00:17:28
Speaker
It's not real sex because a penis and penetration isn't involved versus if two women are having sex together, it doesn't thread in our relationship. They're swinger couples where the idea is that we can just make out with other people and do other stuff like oral sex and manual sex, but we can't do penetration, which again, like centers the penis a little bit too much for my liking, but like their relationship boundaries is their relationship boundaries.
00:17:56
Speaker
There's people who have roles that they only play together in the same room where both partners can still see each other and this is viewed as like an act that protects their monogamy because they're doing it together within eyesight of each other. I mean, we've been in situations where we've like taught the swingers where they're like, yeah, it actually is not. They, we've been in situations where we talk to swingers where they say things like, we don't define this as cheating, not because it's consensual, but because we're doing it together. And it's like,
00:18:26
Speaker
No, it's not cheating because you guys already agree that this is okay. Yeah, it's not cheating. It is not cheating because you guys are in the same bed together. And I think that that's like goes back to the root of like monogamy. What other type of like swinger couples aren't there? I mean,
00:18:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think it kind of depends. I would just say the way to sum them up is they typically have very strict boundaries, even within the ways they're engaging in sex with other people. You're right. I was going on a little bit of a tangent and they're very like emotionally exclusive. Yeah. So then like after swingers, there is also a thing with swingers, a lot of them are not allowed to go on dates with other people. So they're not allowed to go on dates alone and form relationships alone. I think this is like a very important part of swinging is that
00:19:17
Speaker
they're only allowed to break the bonds of monogamy together, whether that's normally only sexual, either only sexual or emotional. It has to happen as a couple doing it together. It can't be them individually exploring their sexuality.
Boundaries and Ethical Non-Monogamy
00:19:32
Speaker
And then this is where we're going to get into the overarching group, but they're also a subgroup by themselves. And that's people who identify as non-monogamous.
00:19:42
Speaker
So people who identify as non-monogamous is the umbrella term for everybody who's polyamorous, who's a swinger, people who are unicorn hunters and want to have three sums, but also as a subcategory of these people who they don't define themselves as polyamorous, but they also don't define themselves as like swingers. It's what we were for a long time. Would you want to give your definition of people who identify as consensually non-monogamous? Yeah, I think
00:20:12
Speaker
you know, ENM ethically non-monogamous is an umbrella term that kind of summarizes everything. But what I tend to find for people who, you know, it's a spectrum. They don't identify as swingers, but they don't identify as polyamorous. They will tend to identify as like, we're an ENM couple, we're ethically non-monogamous. So those are the types they typically are interested in. Group play,
00:20:39
Speaker
maybe threesomes, maybe orgies. They tend to like to do things together like dating together, meeting a couple, you know, having group play in that way or meeting a solo person and having group play in that way. And they may go on like casual dates or have solo casual encounters.
00:21:04
Speaker
but they're not quite ready for polyamory or don't define themselves as polyamorous because they're not looking for an entire secondary partner to their primary partner. They're not looking for like an official relationship. What I would say about non-monogamous people identify as non-monogamous is that the title itself is so broad. They have to communicate the most about what their boundaries are and
00:21:32
Speaker
what they want to do with their relationship. While on one hand it gives them the most freedom to be flexible with what they want to do with the relationship. On the other hand, it gives the most room to make mistakes because when you're polyamorous, you know what that means. When you're a swinger, you basically knows what that means. When you're just consensually non-monogamous, there's a lot of flexibility there. And I think that for like a lot of consensually non-monogamous people, you get everybody from
00:22:02
Speaker
hey, we only have sex as a couple. We only date as a couple to people who are basically poly where they're like, hey, we do things together, but we're also free to explore relationships on our own without each other. And we can go date people and form these own autonomous relationships. And people who identify us, because essentially non-monogamous is everything in between.
00:22:27
Speaker
Which again, I think a lot of couples, especially younger couples who don't want to identify as the stereotypical swingers, because as normally pictures an older demographic with the upside down pineapple hanging out in Florida, but they're still not ready to say that we're poly because that's not who we are, identify as consensually non-monogamous. And I think that it's important for them to define what they are and communicate with each other. Yeah, that's definitely the biggest part of it.
00:22:56
Speaker
So yeah, the reason why we didn't give a strict definition of what is consensually non-monogamous is because there is not a strict definition of consensually non-monogamous. It's basically anything that's not monogamous. It's not poly, or it can be poly, it can be swingers, it can be some middle part in between, but it's basically an overarching category. For us, for example, when we were identifying as consensually non-monogamous,
00:23:25
Speaker
our boundaries where we could do things separately, we could do things together. Do we allow emotional connections at first? I mean, the conversation was kind of like, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, but we weren't like pursuing emotional intimacy with other people. Yeah. Like for early parts of our non-monogamous journey, we were emotionally monogamous.
00:23:55
Speaker
And then we kind of realized that that was unsustainable because the people that we were having sex with were also the people we were hanging out with, you know, such an intimate part of our lives. Yeah.
Communication Needs
00:24:05
Speaker
And I think the last category is a polyamorous. Do you want to define that one or do you want me to define it? You can go ahead. I had not find polyamorous as the most free out of all of them, where each individual person is allowed to make whatever
00:24:24
Speaker
sexual or emotional connections that they want with other people. There's different styles of polyamory, one that still centers your primary or your nesting partner, the person that you, I guess, originally formed the relationship with, but that's not always necessarily the case. And there's non-hierarchical polyamorous where each relationship exists on the same power status as the other one. One relationship is not inherently more important than the other.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I guess like what are some like healthy tips for like couples who are getting into like non-monogamy? I mean, I think the biggest thing is to communicate to your partner and anyone else you're engaging with in that way what you're after. You know, I think a lot of people like they go on field, which is like a non-monogamous dating app, and they just say, I'm open to whatever. And honestly, the same thing with Tinder for monogamous people.
00:25:25
Speaker
I think you just have to be realistic of like, do you want a second partner? Do you want just a friends with benefits? Do you want to do stuff exclusively with your partner? And whatever you're after is okay. It really is, you know, like I need a lot of women where they're like, Hey, I have really severe trauma, but I really want to explore my sexuality.
00:25:50
Speaker
So personally for me, I don't want to have a sexual relationship with anyone unless my partner's there. That's okay. Even if that's not your reason, maybe you just prefer to do stuff as a couple. That's fine. Also, if you're somebody like for me personally, I think it's just very natural for me to have feelings and romantic feelings for multiple people. That's okay too.
Monogamy as a Norm
00:26:14
Speaker
And I think that like that gets me to two of my points. One is that,
00:26:21
Speaker
I think that the idea that once we get into monogamous relationships, we stop having sexual and emotional desires for other people is just not true, and it's more indoctrination than anything. And I think you can really see that when, one, you look at cheating statistics, but even when you look at emotional cheating, when people are like, hey, I have a work wife, I have a work husband, I have this person I'm really close with that
00:26:50
Speaker
If we were both single, we would date each other, but we're both in monogamous relationships. So we can't admit that we have emotional connections together. And I think that like deep down in the monogamous collective consciousness, we know this because we'd give exemptions for attraction for celebrities or famous athletes or anything that doesn't throw it in a relationship. So we know that people in monogamous relationships are still attracted to other people. It's just that,
00:27:18
Speaker
You can't admit that because it threatens the status of monogamy. What I will say though is that this is the important thing for like monogamous people. I think there is a difference between identifying as monogamous because monogamy was the only option you have ever considered in your relationship versus identifying as monogamous because you said, Hey, I know myself. I know what I need in a relationship and I need monogamy. That's who I am as a person. And I think that like,
00:27:48
Speaker
The second one is a very valid thing. Whereas I think the first one is more indoctrination. Yeah.
Conclusion
00:27:55
Speaker
I think that like that should wrap up the podcast. I don't know if there's anything else that you want to cover. No, that's it. All right. Thank you for listening. This has been a fun with sex podcast.