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DS9: "Far Beyond the Stars" (s6e13)
148 Plays20 days ago
HOPE AND DESPAIR walk hand and hand, but that's not the only lesson to be learned from a classic episode of Star Trek and Deep Space Nine. From a technical standpoint, the Star Trek format is malleable and elastic if the story has a point, and the story can be about anything if there's meaningful characterization. But! Is this episode a TREK, MARRY, or KILL? Bryan and Shereese investigate as our Inner Lights theme month continues.
The grades begin at (33:18).
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Trek Mary Kill
00:00:00
Speaker
Next on Trek Mary Kill. Benny. Hope. Real. Energize. A dream of the past. I am a writer. Deep Space Nine is a very intriguing time. Becomes a vision for the future. Your hero's a Negro captain. It's not believable. Trapped in time. I think I'm losing my mind. Living another life. Maybe this is all happening for a reason. Cisco faces his greatest enemy. Things are going to change. They have to. Racism.
00:00:30
Speaker
on the next Star Trek Deep Space Nine.
00:00:45
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Charisse. Welcome to Trek Mary Kill, a Star Trek podcast where we try to determine which episodes of Star Trek are most worth your valuable time.
Exploring 'Inner Light' Theme Month
00:00:54
Speaker
This week, we continue our Inner Light theme month, looking at at the episodes from across the franchise, where a character, usually the captain, seemingly leads a separate life, completely detached from their Starfleet self, and in that life, discover something deeper and profound about themselves and sometimes about the world. Charisse, have you ever lived a second life? Not to my knowledge.
00:01:15
Speaker
Every time you've woken up, you've been like, oh, that was just a dream. Exactly. Yeah. I'm never like, wow, that was reality. And this is the dream.
00:01:27
Speaker
ah The closest I think I get is sort of like when you work two jobs and You have the the people who know you at one job one way and then you go to another way then obviously you have your family life and all that ah there's There's the TV show severance which came back recently where that's kind of that's the entire premise where you sever your work self from your out of work. so life Yeah, exactly. So that's about as close I think as most people probably get this is the episode we're about to discuss this week, certainly just like the inner light are completely the identity is completely shifted and kind of asking to to borrow a phrase we didn't just fall out of a coconut tree.
00:02:08
Speaker
ah We exist in the context of all that came before us kind of situation. Last week was Inner Light that I did with Michael Bauman. ah This week we're traveling to the mouth of the wormhole and then back to Earth again with Far Beyond the Stars, the 13th episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine's
Discussion on 'Far Beyond the Stars'
00:02:25
Speaker
sixth season. It premiered in syndication on February 11th, 1998. Teleplay by Eric Stephen Bear with Hans Beemler.
00:02:33
Speaker
ah from a story by Mark Scott Zicri, directed by Captain Sisko himself, Avery Brooks. Memory Alpha describes that experiencing a vision from the prophets, Sisko sees himself as Benny Russell, a science fiction writer in the 1950s who struggles with civil rights and inequality when he writes the story of Captain Benjamin Sisko, a black commander of a futuristic space station.
00:02:55
Speaker
ah What Memory Alpha doesn't mention is that the story features the entire cast out of uniform, out of makeup, ah which is kind of in a way played for sort of breezy laughs initially to really ground the episode in this new reality. You know, Captain Sisko's in the 50s, New York in the 1950s, so it's disorienting on on a visual standpoint and then Once it sets you up, it really delivers quite a dramatic punch at the end. It kind of reminds us, I think the point of it, that the struggle for progress is a struggle and we can't turn away from that. But obviously the episode is about very much about ah racism in America, especially that time period. I guess I could go into who everyone turns into or what they're portrayed as in this vision, but maybe we'll go through that quickly. I want to ask, Charisse, do you remember the first time you saw this episode?
00:03:46
Speaker
I do because it was last night in preparation for this conversation. I had a feeling that you had not seen it because of how you talked about Deep Space Nine before. So I guess ah we're going to find out what you thought of it. But ah yeah, I guess. Sorry to have everyone on you like this.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, no worries. I think, you know, and now spoiler now is I enjoyed this episode. um And I enjoyed seeing the characters out of costume and stuff like that and just playing totally different people. And I wonder if I would have enjoyed it a little more had I seen had I been more familiar with the show. So I knew what the characters were normally like, so I could really juxtapose like, Oh, wow, this character is usually like this. And now they're totally like this. And that's so different.
00:04:27
Speaker
But even, I will say, even without that context, um I could tell they were different. And it was it was really enjoyable to see them being able to, and I always love that, to see actors play something totally different from what they usually do and do a stellar job. So yes, I do remember it from last night. It was an adventure. 1998, this is definitely when Star Trek had not quite yet exited from my primary concern.
00:04:56
Speaker
i I remember being riveted by this episode. I did a school, a class project. We had to do a video of analyzing, I can't remember the assignment, analyzing some work of fiction or whatever. And I i picked Star Trek, like literally the franchise. And I used clips from this episode to kind of talk about, it's not just nerd shit, and like just to kind of give this idea of what it's getting at exactly.
00:05:21
Speaker
Um, and so it's, it's very powerful. Obviously it's 1953 in New York. It's about a black science fiction writer, ah the process, the persecution that, uh, just the black experience in America at that time. And specifically. this character but obviously there are other people in his orbit uh you know he's there's a a new york giants player so i'm already on board with this episode i'm a big san francisco giant fan so i'm like great uh michael doern and uh and you know jake his son the syric lofton is playing uh
00:05:56
Speaker
Basically, a hustler. A hustler, yeah. yeah A young hustler with a little mustache. That's right. So it's a lot of fun. And you know basically, Quark and Odo are arguing with each other. One is the writer, one is the editor. Kira and Bashir are a writing team, mirroring the real life. Dona Visitor and Alexandra Sittig were together, or at least had a child together, during the run of the show. So they're coupled up, which I thought was fun.
00:06:23
Speaker
um Jadzia is playing a dizy kind of a ditzy secretary, but not really more like just fresh off the bus, fresh in in New York, um kind of trying to get the lay of the land and really playing to Terry Farrell's comedic strengths, which do
Avery Brooks' Performance and Acting Challenges
00:06:39
Speaker
exist. And then I really like that ah General Martok is this episode.
00:06:44
Speaker
as the artist, as like the staff artist, because I remember even as a teenager being like, this is kind of cool that it's unmistakably JG Hertzler, but he's playing, you know, a different kind of person that he's actually also very perfect for. I thought that was great. And, you know, yeah I think what Avery Brooks is doing this episode, especially after the fact, learning more about him and about his relationship with the show and all that. um This is a very meaningful episode for him, which I'll talk about in a second. And his performance, ah I think over the years his performance has been
00:07:22
Speaker
heralded and criticized. And I think ah over time, I've kind of been in the middle and I think rewatching it multiple times, but also recognizing like when you're acting on a 480 screen, that's literally a square, you have to act through that. You have to act through people's antenna experience. So TV acting is different from how it is now.
00:07:48
Speaker
But also, I think what the message of this episode is, it's very powerful. it kind of This episode kind of is a reaffirmation of something Whoopi Goldberg said, um you know, why she likes Star Trek at all. She's like, it's nice to know there's black people in the future. You know, just that this is kind of like an now like a restatement of like,
00:08:10
Speaker
The hope for the future is not just some empty thing. It's it's ah it's something you have to imagine. And then you have to try to bring into reality. And I think that's why I find to be very powerful.
Diversity in Media and Black Creators
00:08:21
Speaker
But Avery Brooks himself on the Deep Space Nine DVDs was not as like, yes, this is about racism, which is interesting because I have a comment he makes at the time the episode was made. Anyway, the people thought it was about racism. Well, maybe so, maybe not. But the fact of the matter and far beyond the stars is that you have a man who essentially was conceiving of something far beyond what people around him had ever imagined, and therefore they thought he was crazy. I have to say it was the most important moment for me in the entire seven years. I think that lines up. If you new ideas, you want to cause a revolution, if you want to change the world around you, yeah, people are going to
00:09:01
Speaker
have conflict with that, the status quo is very powerful. go to read from the deep say i'm showing shri's listeners my beloved star trek d waste night but just read real quick Far Beyond the Stars presented a page of our history from a time when science fiction was becoming a part of the mainstream, observes director Avery Brooks.
00:09:22
Speaker
And when we talk about the those writers, we're talking about the reason that we're even here, he laughs. The people we saw in that office each had a very specific identity. He's talking about the characters in the episode that we just described. I wanted to see who those people were in order to investigate one of the most oppressive times of the 20th century. They were living with McCarthyism and the atomic bomb and the Red Scare. I mean, that was a very interesting period. but ah I want to say something that's probably stupid, but I always think about this in relation to black directors. ah Ava DuVernay, I think maybe either she herself said this or this was said in relation to her specifically, but when black people are put in front of the camera or given projects to make,
00:10:07
Speaker
An overwhelming majority of the time, it's always about the Black experience. You know, Ava D'Averni is not just getting a Star Trek movie to make a Star Trek movie. it's got you know It's got to be about being Black in some way. So there's a part of it when I read these comments from Avery Books, why he's so thoughtful is like, well, it's and it's important, but it's not everything. I'm as interested in the context of everything else.
00:10:32
Speaker
I think that's a very powerful statement because I think people who don't engage with this episode either by they've watched it once or they think very little of it would reduce it down to it. Oh, it's just about being black and racist and that's our racism. and It's not really what the whole episodes about it kind of flattens it down to kind of a terrible thought. I think it's not. um This episode isn't preachy is kind of what I'm getting at. um I don't know. What is ah is anything I'm saying that sound like rambling or makes sense to you or I'm not sure. Um, yeah, that's actually still true for a lot of um black directors where
00:11:11
Speaker
regardless of how popular their shows are, and writers, and producers, regardless of how popular their shows are, or their movies are, people are always asking them, um Oh, man, we'd love to do a story about your mom, we'd love to do a story about what it was like for you growing up, we'd love to do a story about you know, which is, which is fine. And some people are like, this is great because it gives me a chance to share my story and talk about my community and other people, especially when it comes to kind of sci-fi and fantasy and stuff like that. They're like, I just want to tell a story about dragons, you know, like,
Role of Science Fiction in Envisioning Futures
00:11:39
Speaker
but can I do that? And it's like, of course not. We need to hear about racism and we need to hear about your struggle. and We need to hear about how you're oppressed. And it's like sometimes, especially for me as a black woman, that's one of the things I love about, that's why I love science fiction is because um it gives me a chance to think about a future
00:11:56
Speaker
different from what's going on now and so fantastical that it just gives me space to dream. And I think that was one of the big lessons of this episode. And it's bigger than let's just rehash what's going on right now. Let's just talk about how much stuff sucks. Let's just talk about how much people suck. Let's just talk about how the world is all ending, which is all true. And there is a time and a place for that. But in my spare time, I like to be entertained. And I also like to be filled with hope. And what's going on in the current time, whatever time it may be, whether it's 1998 or today, can be really stressful and really depressing and really hard. And science fiction, for me, is an outlet for hope to make me go, wow, if this or that is possible, then maybe we can do something now to make that a reality. So yeah, I think it's I think that's very true that a lot of um
00:12:46
Speaker
people in these creative situations have that experience. That is not just creative situations, but I will say um after the Black Lives Matter. movement just for as far as science fiction books written by Black authors. They were so impossible to find before because I was always looking to because I read like constantly and I was always looking for diverse voices and it was just really hard to find. um You have to go to very niche places and after the Black Lives Matter movement they became easier to find But even as I was searching through different books by black authors, like on Amazon, for example, it was like 90% of the books were about being in gangs or being an an athlete. And it was like, okay, so that's great. We've got some some, you know, brown people in books. So that's good. But as far as what I was looking for, which was just like, I want a story about dragons. I just want some of the characters to not be so pale and porcelain skinned with long blonde hair and pretty blue eyes. Like I just wanted somebody who looks a little different, especially since you're all all out in the desert somebody should have a tan, right? And so I feel like the struggle is still going on and it's been a while since this episode came out and this episode was made about the 50s and it's still the same kind of a thing. However, I will say um of the books that I've been able to find and read and the authors that I really enjoy, um there's something special. Like I can't even describe it. There's something special about reading a story, a sci-fi story or a fantasy story where the characters have
00:14:16
Speaker
you know, puffy curly hair and brown skin um or even, even and that they don't have to be black people, but just not white people, but like literally anything else that's different. That makes me really excited because similar to what would be said and LaVar Burton said the same thing. It's just nice to know that other people exist in the future.
Insights from Avery Brooks and Production Notes
00:14:38
Speaker
They're not going to all be wiped out. You know, it's like they have a place here too.
00:14:42
Speaker
You reminded me of another quote from the companion here from Avery Brooks. If we had changed the people's clothes, the story could be about right now. Yep. So, like I said, at the time, he had he was a little bit more overtly like, yes, this is obviously telling a story about racism. Here he says, what's insidious about racism is that it is unconscious, even among these very bright and enlightened characters, a group that includes a woman writer who has to use a man's name to get her work published, and who was married to a brown man with a British accent in 1953,
00:15:13
Speaker
It's perfectly reasonable to coexist with someone like Pabst. That's the editor, played by René Bourgeois. It's in the culture. It's the way people think. So that was the approach we took. I never talked about racism. I just showed how these intelligent people think, and it all came out of them. That's brilliant. I mean, that the... un You're talking about Black Lives um Matter. I think one of the... My recollection is one of the things that does seem to have stuck is the idea of unconscious bias, is yeah the idea of like people actually taking that extra step to think about why why do we do this? Why am I saying this? What does this mean? And that's I think that's purposeful. it's It feels like such a baby step bit in one hand, but it also, I feel like that is the vibe shift that that did happen.
00:16:03
Speaker
Yeah, and even speaking of the women writers like DC Fontana, who writes a lot of Star Trek is a woman who goes by DC specifically for the same reason. Absolutely. america does in please That's the inspiration for this. We'll get into all these production notes. I'm going to cut listeners if you're if you forget or you are unaware, if you're couldn't new to the show, I tend to shotgun blast a bunch of notes at my co hosts.
00:16:27
Speaker
And then I try to sift through them or say them quickly, but there's a lot of ah notes to get through here. um ah real quick, the possible inspiration for the Benny Russell character. ah Samuel R. Delaney, an African American science fiction writer who actually started in the early 1960s, a few years after this episode was set, he was ah friends with most of the writers um in the office, those kind of like real life analogues to whom ever to who everyone's playing called media. So I must mean there was a stuttering
00:17:00
Speaker
awkward a writer that they're specifically referencing with Colmini's character, Chief O'Brien's character. Delaney has recalled that his 1967 novel Nova was rejected due to the feeling that sci-fi readers were not ready for a black protagonist, identical to the reason that Benny's story about Deep Space Nine is rejected here in Far Beyond the Stars.
Episode's Relevance to Modern Issues
00:17:20
Speaker
Nova, though, was ultimately published and received a nomination for the 1969 Hugo Award Armin Shimmerman's enjoyment of the episode was despite the fact that he found appearing sans makeup a challenge. He says he says this in The Companion, and being out of makeup was slightly off putting. I've grown accustomed to the cork mask being a mechanism for support. That face describes who I am as an alien character. And also, while many actors worry about how they look on camera, I don't because my face isn't on camera. So it was bizarre to be barefaced on a Star Trek show I never had before.
00:17:54
Speaker
And I have to say he was excellent. He was so good, so passionate, so believable. He did a fantastic job. And maybe the makeup crutch helped him have such a great performance because he's used to going out even more. Like you were saying you have to act through it. He has to act through a full head prosthetic. Like you have to yeah seems to do a lot of acting to see through the big forehead ridges and the giant ears and everything else.
00:18:18
Speaker
Yep, he's kind of doing, this is not a criticism though, he's kind of doing a take um from his principal Snyder, Buffy character. He's kind of playing that beat a little bit. Like it's familiar if you're a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan when Armin Schimmerman was on the show.
00:18:35
Speaker
In the original outline, ah Michael Dorn's character was a boxer, not a baseball player. ah He was romantically involved with the white woman, which was discovered by the racist policeman, who said but subsequently beat him to death. ah This killing was replaced by the shooting of Jimmy in the finished episode, Serik Lofton's character. Also in Zikri's version, Armin Shimmerman's character got encouraged by Russell's breakdown to go ahead and publish his Benjamin Sisko story. um Maybe that's a slight... tweak, maybe Rene abortion was what they meant in the note there. um One other thing was that the original concept was that this was a Jake story, which kind of makes sense, right? That he's imagining writers in the 50s, because Jake is a writer. um And he's a fiction writer, eventually is what we're, we're led to believe by the visitor. But, but they when he pitched that the original pitch was basically like aliens have
00:19:30
Speaker
created this thing from Jake to get information, presumably about Captain Sisko. And Ira Bear was like, well, that's not really interesting. It's too gimmicky. So actually the way the notes go in the companion, Ira Bear and Hans Beimler re-pitched the story to the the freelancer, which is unusual. And then they kind of re-broke the story and then whatever Mark Zicri gave them, then the writing staff kind of re-jiggered here.
00:19:57
Speaker
um I was thrilled at the bravery, he said. It was Ira Bear who was entirely responsible for that story existing because he went to bat for it. He had to convince Rick Berman in Paramount, this is going to be ah overtly about racism.
00:20:10
Speaker
And Jake's character is a teenager who breaks into a car and gets shot by racist cops. And now watching it 20 years later, this is from an interview in 2018, it has amazing resonance. It has more power now than it did
Actors' Reflections and Emotional Impact
00:20:21
Speaker
then. It was courageous for a major studio to do that on a major science fiction show. Yeah. And that's, that's because the same thing still happens today. And that's, that's what's really exhausting about stories like this is it's just like, it feels like, it just feels like being on a hamster wheel. um The only difference is that people are,
00:20:39
Speaker
people as a whole are slightly less okay with it. Like that's the difference. Does it keep happening? Yes. But but before people were like, yeah, that's right. And now people are like, Hey, that's wrong. So that's like the the difference, but it's still happening. And this, all these phrases of that could be today is still true today.
00:20:58
Speaker
I mean, the show is telling you it's wrong in not just that it's Jake who dies, but it's also that the cops are played by Golducott and Weyun, like the two bad cops for the show. it's not It's not an accident. It's not soft pedaling at all. ah Why could the show get away with this? Well, because ah Deep Space Nine fans know this was the middle child of Star Trek and Paramount just ignored it.
00:21:23
Speaker
So Renee abortion was ah thrilled. He thought it was a brilliant episode, one of the best of the whole series. And Avery did a fabulous job of directing it. Michael Dorn said it was wonderfully shot. Penny Johnson said this was beautifully handed and beautifully handled and beautifully shot, but it's still in the heart. It got me. Uh, JG Hertzler commented. I thought it was one you could have built an entire series from everyone really liked being out of their makeup trees.
00:21:53
Speaker
Right? I mean, Michael Dorn, it was such a like, wait a minute, who's that? You know, like, a lot of the characters, it was like, wait, who's that? And then they would have little flashes and you'd be like, oh, okay, okay, I see it, I see it. um Which is just kind of fun. Armin Shimmerman in Star Trek magazine said, obviously, Far Beyond the Stars is not a cork episode. But the reason I like it, that one so much is that it's perfect science fiction. I think it really stretches the imagination of the viewer and breaks down the fourth wall to talk about the real heroes of any TV shows, which are the writers.
00:22:23
Speaker
I love what i'm writer they are, the heroes or the villains. That's right. I love what our writers did with it. It was one of the most creative TV episodes I've ever seen or been in. I do tend to watch it again whenever it's on because it was just a terrific episode. The now visitor in the Deep Space Nine documentary was extremely she found the experience extremely uncomfortable for her, especially in in the climactic scene where Benny Russell's story has been denied and he's been yeah the the publisher, the owner of the of the ah the magazine has basically killed the entire issue for that month because he doesn't want to run Benny's story um and Benny is fired and Avery Brooks has this breakdown talking about you can't say this doesn't exist because it's real I dreamed it and he has this
00:23:11
Speaker
intense breakdown, which made the visitor in the documentary very uncomfortable because that was not ah Avery Brooks simply playing a character channeling ah that character's emotions. It seems like he was tapping into a very intense personal experience.
00:23:29
Speaker
personal experience, ah the weight of a culture, yeah you know, there's, there's certain, this element, this episode is very much, um um like Avery Brooks, Captain Sisko, I think Benny has a line, like our stories, like he's very much talking about the Black experience. He's, in the beginning, and ah his dad tells him,
00:23:51
Speaker
you've got the weight of the Federation on your shoulders, basically the weight of everything on your shoulders. And I think Benny is kind of playing that angle of like, I've got our entire people's experience, the weight on my
Production Details and Easter Eggs
00:24:03
Speaker
shoulders. um And I know it's always interesting when actors are made uncomfortable by another actor's performance, because I think it's very easy for non actors to become uncomfortable by actors performances.
00:24:16
Speaker
and And a lot of the time actors don't. They're like, they're feeling it with them. but Sometimes something become can become so real and cathartic or just ah expressive that it overwhelms everybody. ah I don't know. I'm not going to play. I played that in class. I remember this. I played that moment in class. The whole sequence to at least lead up to why he's having this breakdown.
00:24:40
Speaker
Anyway, Ronald D. Moore. In my humble opinion, I think it's one of the best episodes in the entire franchise, and I wish I was the one who wrote it. um The art department was excited to create ah the old science fiction magazines and the time period. ah There's a lot of Easter eggs. You mentioned D.C. Fontana. Yes, they're obviously pulling from her, but a lot of the writers' names, I think they even on the art, there's a Roddenberry reference. um Sturgeon, Theodore Sturgeon, who wrote original series episodes, gets actually name-checked in dialogue. The silver item on Herbert Rossoff's desk, which he places in like in a case as he threatens to quit, is an actual Hugo Award, which was loaned to the production by Rick Sternbach. um and Anyway, this was the first episode that aired during Black History Month of 1998. According to Ron Moore, this wasn't planned, just a happy coincidence, sure.
00:25:30
Speaker
um Star Trek Picard season one showrunner Michael Chabon said this episode and The Inner Light are his two favorite episodes of television, period. We ah recently have concluded recording our Star Trek Picard season a one look back, Charisse, which listeners will be coming in March, and ah everything Michael Chabon says, I'm like a little astric, but I'm not sure.
00:25:56
Speaker
out of my mind about everything he says. This episode was nominated for three Emmy Awards. It's pretty nuts when I tell you what they were. Outstanding art direction for a series, outstanding costume design for a series, and outstanding hairstyling for a series. That's it. Not an acting award, not a directing award, not a writing award. Just, hey, they made it look like 1953 New York.
00:26:24
Speaker
Very convincingly, apparently. I guess so. Hold on. it Can I? Hold on. 1999. I just want to see who won. Directing went in a drama, went to and NYPD Blue. Okay, fine. But up against Law and Order, okay. But then also the Law and Order Homicide Crossover and then an episode of The Sopranos. So that's bullshit. They should have canceled each other after you say something could have gone in there. Let's go with actor. Lead actor in a drama series.
00:26:52
Speaker
Sam Waterston for law and order. Okay. Jimmy Smiths for NYPD blue. Okay. Dylan McDermott ah for the practice. Okay. James Gandolfini for the Sopranos. Okay. Dennis Franz and then NYPD blue. You could have bumped Dylan McDermott with all due respect. So, uh, that's all I just, I like looking those up and, uh, going, what happened there?
00:27:14
Speaker
According to an interview in Star Trek Monthly, issue 40, The Incredible Tales staffers were based on various real life genre writers.
Narrative Choices and Alternate Endings
00:27:21
Speaker
For instance, Albert Macklin was intended as an homage to Isaac Asimov.
00:27:25
Speaker
um Kay Eaton, who wrote wrote under the name Casey Hunter, ah was a version of Catherine Moore, who similarly wrote under the name Ciel Moore, and obviously also DC Fontana. So those are two big ones. ah Let's see.
00:27:43
Speaker
John Eve stated in an interview that he was in charge of the Deep Space Nine drawing ah that Roy J.G. Hertzley's character draws. ah There's a footprint on it when it gets stepped on. And so I don't know if people realize this, you don't just like leave it to happenstance that you'll get the exact photogenic ah footprint that you need if you need to have like a shoe stamping on a drawing. So He saw a woman in the corridor wearing combat boots and asked her to stamp on that prick on that picture so he could get a stamp. He didn't realize it until he was told later, but Theresa was Jerry Ryan in costume. She was filming the episode, The Killing Game, part one at the time, and that was part of her French Resistance costume. That's hilarious. That's pretty cool.
00:28:31
Speaker
The song playing over the first Benny scene, the argument with the newspaper boy, played by Aaron Eisenberg, rest in peace, Nog. That was like perfect casting, like, well, how are we gonna get Noggin here? A newspaper boy!
00:28:42
Speaker
but sense um The song that's playing though to introduce us to 1953 New York is called The Glow Worm written by Paul Link in 1909. It was recorded in 1952 by the vocal group Mills Brothers and reached number one in the pop charts that same year. At one point they were considering having DJ signed end with Benny Russell like waking up and it being like, was Deep Space Nine a dream? And obviously we revisit Benny Russell later in season seven, or at the beginning of season seven, when the prophets were giving him more visions.
00:29:16
Speaker
They kind of toyed with the idea. And again, because Deepsea Stein's a middle child, it got down on the line enough. And then Rick Berman was like asking questions of like, well, Deepsea Stein came after the original series, came after the next generation. So are we saying just Deepsea Stein was a dream, but he had it before he watched Star Trek? like So they they basically talked themselves out of it through logic.
00:29:37
Speaker
but But also like one of the comments in this episode was if you make it a dream, it kind of negates everything. So. Yes. um I remember I wrote this story because I used to just, I used to love writing as much as I love reading. I used to also love writing and I would write all these like fiction stories and stuff. And I had this English teacher in middle school and I wrote this story and it was kind of like a thriller, but I couldn't figure out how to get my protagonist safely out of the situation without just dying. And I thought that was kind of a bummer way to end the story.
00:30:06
Speaker
So I ended with them just like waking up from a dream. And I will never forget the teacher was like, that is lazy writing. That is just lazy. He's like, this story was actually good until you did that. Because what your job is as a writer is to figure it out, figure out how they get out. Like you have to do that you have to do the work.
00:30:23
Speaker
And I will never forget that because it was very um constructive criticism that hurt my little feelings. But I was also like, yeah, you're totally right. I didn't know what I was doing. And now whenever I see that in TV or movies where they're just like, ah it was just a dream. I'm like, OK, because you couldn't figure it out. And so you were lazy and you didn't put in the work to make the story good. You know, and maybe that means your characters die, but that's what needs to happen to make the story good. And so I'm i'm actually glad they didn't just go with like, yeah, all of Star Trek is a dream.
Themes of Hope and Perseverance
00:30:53
Speaker
um Well, you're totally right. And I think just like the serialization that Deep Space Nine got into that laid the groundwork for the next, you know, even to today, what television became. ah I think the dream stories, dream stories are part of television history. sitcoms have them like the idea that, you know, something wild happens in the characters in a dreamland. What Star Trek really kind of iterated on from that is this idea of uh just it's the same character but that character is now a completely different person their identity has completely has changed entirely which you know i think that's getting into Jung and maybe Freud it's like getting into these other archetypes but uh you know David Lynch this is a very big thing about identity and and doppelgangers and all that stuff so
00:31:44
Speaker
and I think Deep Space Nine, in a lot of ways, continues to be a trailblazer that this episode, it doesn't necessarily get considered as being along the lines of, you know, Deep Space Nine did not give us Mulholland Drive. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that. Just the idea of what you could do in television in a way, especially using sci-fi as the mechanism. um I think that's what really opened it up. I'm sure there was an episode of Lost where someone was somebody else.
00:32:12
Speaker
they were going through life. That's kind of what the final season is too, right? They're having the middle, like they're having these flashbacks to something that didn't happen. It's like another life that they're in. Yeah. And they're different people. Yeah. so And it's confusing.
00:32:26
Speaker
ah Yeah, I will say I'm totally fine with the functional dream because a lot of times, you know, like data had a dream, but it was helping him figure out what was going on in the ship because it was his subconscious yada yada. Because that's like our normal experiences that sometimes we have dreams that help us understand what's going on when we're awake. I just think it's when the whole story is like, ah it was just a dream. And that's it. Like that explains the way everything is super lazy. But yeah, something that truck can do is This is like beyond a dream. This is like i they just like inner light. This is, I'm living an entirely different life that maybe or maybe is not a dream. Maybe I was just experiencing someone's memories. And so it wasn't a dream at all. Now, an intense lesson from the prophets hearing you say, maybe I should give up. And that's basically our setup for the story. ah Let's get into the grade, shall we? ah We'll start with great scenes.
00:33:20
Speaker
So I have two. um I have the first one when Kira and Cisco were told to sleep in late because a photographer was coming to look at the team. um And I just like kind of the, the grittiness of that scene where it was like, Oh, I guess I'm sleeping in late. I guess I'm sleeping in late too. And the guy's just like, yup, you guys know the deal. Cannot be here, you know? And it's just like, um yeah, I don't know. I just really liked that scene that sets up the whole tension, but in a very, not casual, but um in a way that that's makes it clear that this is an everyday occurrence. this is This is nothing strange, nothing weird. This is exactly how these people are treated all the time and will be treated for as long as it takes um until they're not okay with it someday. And then of course, Benny's final speech at the paper right before he has a heart attack or whatever happens to him um was was really, really moving. That was a great scene.
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah. um i'm goingnna This is going to sound like my biggest cop-out answer, but except for the scene where Cisco wakes up in sickbay at the end, I kind of want to say every scene in in this episode is a great scene. I love that they spent a lot of time in the series making sure that, and this is an Avery Brooks thing, he's like, I want Cisco to be a person.
00:34:40
Speaker
So he has a family. His dad's visiting him on the station and they're not talking about some long standing feud that they've had or an argument like they're just talking about in the moment what's going on. I love all the scenes that are happening in the past because of how much like Avery Brooks directs the hell out of this episode. All the sets and the shots have depth. You know, it's not just a flat thing that fit looks good on your phone. Like it looks filmic and When those when Benny is dreaming or when he's a when his imaginations going and he's writing the story the way the camera is moving, you know, you can see the show is showing you he's getting into this flow state to write these stories. I really like just the verisimilitude of just how everyone behaves. Their postures change even um the not visitor who is
00:35:35
Speaker
She's a really, really good actor, but like she definitely is kind of more of the Kate Mulgrew tone, where it's like you can always tell she's playing some version of herself. like She doesn't hide and disappear. But here in this one, like there is something different about her tone. There is something a little different about her demeanor. And then that brief glimpse we get where she's Kira, it's like, oh, she looks like Kira, and her posture's changed a little bit.
00:35:59
Speaker
I liked basically every part of this episode in some way had some sort of meaningful dramatic moment, a nice acting touch to it, great directing.
Star Trek Tropes and Viewer Engagement
00:36:08
Speaker
I thought it was all on point on theme. So it might sound like a cop out answer, but ah you can't go wrong if you drop in. I'm Armin Shimmerman. If the episode's on at any point, you can drop in and watch it. um Anyway, best Trek tropes.
00:36:24
Speaker
I have two and I guess, you know, it's these two are actually usually worse trek tropes, but they were just done very well here. So one of them is traveling back in time. I usually hate that. I think when I was younger, I just nothing did. I was pretty neutral. But the older I get, the more I'm like, oh, we're traveling back to present time. Like, do we have to do this on every show?
00:36:46
Speaker
um And so what i so usually it's a worst truck trope, but here it's the best because they didn't just travel back to 1998. And we're like, oh, we find ourselves walking down you know um Sunset Boulevard for some strange reason, how weird. Instead they traveled back to a totally different time and just kind of experienced life in that time. So they could have also traveled back and been like, oh, we went to Roswell. And we're the reason why they think about you know why Americans think aliens exist or whatever. They could have done something like that that tied into sort What's what's going on here did you just sub tweets your favorite star trek when you said they didn't just go to nineteen ninety eight like in future right my quote-unquote favorite episode i think but they do this in every you know they do this in a long shot and not just not just star trek either they do this in a lot of sci-fi.
00:37:35
Speaker
It's kind of funny that you said that about Roswell because did you know that there's a Deep Space Nine episode? I did not know that. Where Quark and the other Frank Quark, Rom, and Nog accidentally travel back in time and become the Roswell aliens. I did not know that. I think it's from the season, yeah. i think it's Because that's like, I mean, that's kind of low hanging fruit, right? It's like, ah we'll just go back and like cause something. Um, but I like that this episode is like, we're just going to go back to the fifties and show you what life was like in the fifties. And Cisco, when he appears, he's not like, like interlight. I'm John Luke Picard. I don't belong here. He's not, he just like fits right in with the world. He's got a whole new identity. right There is no, there is no captain Cisco. He's just in the world. So.
00:38:22
Speaker
all of those things make something that for me is usually a worst trek trope into a best trek trope because they did it in a really interesting way. And then the second one similarly is the dream slash vision slash simulation, which could be good or could be bad depending on how they do it. And in this case, I put it as a best trek trope, not only because of the full immersion of Cisco, like he's not trying to convince everybody that he's Captain Cisco or he's not Confused why he's trapped in this world and in this body or in this life But also because it's not a singular character focused episode like inner light was inner light is a Picard episode He's the only character we really see throughout the whole episode and then at the end he comes back and everyone saves him, right? This is like everybody gets to be there Everybody in the show gets to be in this episode and they all get to be different people And I thought that was a really cool twist to the whole dream vision simulation style of an episode
00:39:18
Speaker
I totally agree. And it's fun that we've, you've pitched like two different facets of what this is because this is the prophets giving him a vision, right? But it's like, yes, and he's in that vision. He's traveling back in time. And like, it's everything you just said. I put in on that line, I'm like aliens taking the form of our beloved characters or just like characters that our main character is familiar with. Um,
00:39:43
Speaker
And so i'm I'm right. I'm right along with you because here we get to see them portrayed in different ways, even though, you know, they're. He doesn't know what and quark looks like as a human, right? It's not like from the reality of the situation, that's irrelevant. It's just like the prophets have given him this vision, these archetypes kind of vaguely fit. you know The quark character argues with the other character who is an authority. It all kind of works really nice.
00:40:14
Speaker
And he didn't recognize Odo in the beginning scene right when Odo walks by with a suit. He just goes, who's that guy? yeah He doesn't recognize Michael Doren walking by with the baseball stuff, which makes sense because he's not in the whole Klingon makeup. that's right But like he doesn't recognize them at all. They're like totally different people. He also wouldn't recognize him because there was no number 15 on the 1953 New York Giants, but it doesn't matter. and They named him Willie. They're you know trying to get at Willie Mays or whatever. ah But I put that as another best trick trip, though, baseball.
00:40:43
Speaker
a Definitely a best DS9 Trek. That's right. True. Star Trek is social commentary, right? o I think it's aberrance or it's a borance of racism also, I think. I think Star Trek for the most part has been pretty consistent about that, that it doesn't have the stomach for Uh, any sort of, well, I should say human racism. We've certainly highlighted the times where it's like, yes, humans will eventually learn to live in peace, but if it's any other alien, we've got some Vulcans, some Frank, great Frank, we like, there's our, our, our outlet valve there. Um, uh, the warp filled effect.
00:41:26
Speaker
So we get some intrusion into the 1953 reality when ah when he's in the ambulance at the end after his breakdown. you know And he looks out the the ambulance window and he sees the warp field. I liked looking at the old 1990s Star Trek streaking stars warp filled effect. To me, that is canon when they do it in the new versions and it's just like this weird distortion echo chamber thing. I don't like it. That's why I like Star Trek Picard season three returning us to the streaking stars. Lower Decks has been consistent on that. I'm like, yes, that's warp. That's warp speed. And it just reminds you of where you are. um I have two more. You had no more?
00:42:08
Speaker
No, go ahead. The Paramount lot, a great use of it, a real transformation of the New York Backstreet ah that they did. They put a lot of work into it. It wasn't just a couple of of blank, undecorated concrete blocks like in ah past tense where it's not really gussied up too much. um And then the last one.
00:42:30
Speaker
is Marco Lamo being an asshole. So the the actor who plays Golducott. This is from the Deep Space Nine documentary. I did not know this until I watched it, that everybody hates the guy. And like in real life? In real life. and suppose Well, I mean, it's it fits, right? He's the antagonist and he's whatever. he's There is a story that in the series finale of Deep Space Nine, Avery Brooks really punched him.
00:42:56
Speaker
i And that it was like, thank you. That's why you're the captain, Avery Brooks. We've all wanted to punch Mark Lowe. But since it's the last day of shooting, I guess you can get away with it. And I wonder if it's seven years of putting up with this bullshit, or if in the scene where they're kicking and punching him, perhaps Mark Laimo went a little too overboard and Avery Brooks kept that in mind. I don't know, but he is an asshole in this episode playing one of the cops. And so it's a best trek trope. Boys have that in your back pocket.
Critique of DS9 Prophet Storyline
00:43:30
Speaker
Where's trek tropes? I have one.
00:43:32
Speaker
I don't have any, what's yours? Mine is the prophets, which we're, we're enjoying what they did, but I'm kind of, by this point I'm a little not grokking what happens with the prophets. So this begins in Rapture, the episode for me and Rapture happened in the previous season. It's where they find this artifact buried, uh, deep in the, in a cave on Bajor that talks about a lost city of Valhalla. And Cisco, when he comes into contact with it,
00:44:02
Speaker
has this vision and it like changes his his brain and it's kind of like the starting point. They reference it in this episode, Far Beyond the Stars. But also from that point on, is also the episode that introduced the first contact uniforms into Deep Space 9, so when they did the changeover. So to me that's what I most love the episode for.
00:44:20
Speaker
But ah it to me, more or less, it changed what the relationship was. So Emissary, the first episode of Deep State Sign, kind of sets it up as like, he's a Starfleet officer who gets thrust into this extraordinary set of circumstances. And because he's a really good Starfleet officer, he's able to make first contact and a relationship with these wormhole aliens, which exist outside of linear time.
00:44:44
Speaker
But from Rapture on, it evolves into a chosen one narrative. And he's like part prophet and this and that. And his mother was part prophet. And it's just I don't like where it goes. I like a lot of the stuff it gives us, though. I actually thought I thought I liked Rapture because of how it ties him more closely to Bajor, which is very important from the emissary standpoint.
00:45:07
Speaker
But we get in once we get into this chosen one ancient aliens twist on it, I'm not really a fan of it. I think it kind of hurts the show by bringing like a weird religiosity into Star Trek that it, you know, Roddenberry through most of DC's sign it kind of avoided. In here it's kind of bringing it in in. I'm okay with it. The prophet's message being funneled through the preacher played by Cisco's dad Brock Peters rest in peace, but I I thought it was just I'm not a fan of that where they're just gods like literally it was enough that the Bajorans worship them as gods, but you know anyway um But I mean this is just funny. They're they're just like he's like I'm gonna give up and they're like time for a Christmas Carol bitch and
00:45:53
Speaker
You're only living in the past though. And then he goes, it's a wonderful life. That's right. I'm so glad that I'm here. You know what? I'm going to keep going. Who cares if all my friends keep dying. I've got plenty more friends where that came from. I feel like, I don't know, the moral of the story was a little weird to me because I, he, like at the beginning, Cisco's saying he's tired. He's not just tired of being in charge or tired of leadership. He's tired of funerals for his friends.
00:46:18
Speaker
yeah hes ta doesn yeah That's a very you know traumatic situation. It's not just like, I'm bored with this job or something. you know It's like, I'm tired of all this loss and grief and pain and heartache and strife and struggle. um And in the end, it was like, but what if you're so what if what if you're someone's dream? So keep going. And somehow he's like, okay, cool.
00:46:40
Speaker
I think it all tracks actually because his dad has a key line. his His dad says, well, sure, you could quit. I mean, no one is irreplaceable, not even you. Like he's trying to make the point of like, yeah, you're not that special. You could give up, but you should still think about it because you're here and you are doing it.
00:46:59
Speaker
And if someone else might do it but you're the one doing it right and i think that's the point that this they're trying to thread through the episode of like it does seem kinda silly that this is the big thing that they're trying to. ah Push through the like this is what the profits are trying to teach him don't give up.
00:47:19
Speaker
But I think he's really trying to say a hopeless situation does not turn around. You don't get out of a hopeless situation by giving up. By quitting. Yeah, which definitely is what Benny was going through. It was a totally hopeless situation, and he kept going. But yeah, I don't know. The moral of the story is kind of like,
00:47:39
Speaker
Cause what, what, so my experience of the episode was like, he's in this really horrible situation in deep space nine that just like doesn't end. Then he goes back to the fifties to a really horrible situation in America that just like doesn't end. And then that gives him, that gives him the hope and courage to keep going through the horrible situation at deep space nine. yeah And it was supposed to be like a hopeful twist, right? Cause he's smiling and looking at his reflection in the glass, like, yeah, let's go.
00:48:06
Speaker
and I was like literally no part of this was like happy sunshine and roses that Benny had maybe a heart attack or something and is lying in an ambulance he's just been fired all his dreams have gone up in smoke and then you go back to your battle there wasn't really which you know I like that they did that I like that they didn't do a happy ending in in the 50s because that wouldn't be realistic but at the same time but that bummer ending left him feeling great you like happy and hopeful so I don't know it just felt like a bummer to a bummer I think, I mean, I see that, but I also point out like he has a community that he's a part of, people who care about him, who he loves. So he he it's not that he has nothing, right? It's that he's come face-to-face with an implacable foe, in this case, institutionalized, deep-seated hatred and racism. And this in that one particular battle he lost, but he's, like he said, he's a writer. He's never gonna be anything else.
00:49:05
Speaker
He's going to do it again. He's some other way this battle is going to present itself. He's going to have to confront it. And I think that's where there's a lot of great lines in here that go to that point. I think it's a tough episode if you're used to like Star Trek having a heroic, obvious, clear thing. I guess like you're saying all the.
00:49:26
Speaker
all the stuff with the police and the racism that all resonates today, I think the message of hope equally does. I mean, let's be honest, we're in the aftermath of a recent election where one of the writing criticisms has been like, why are people now giving up this time around before there's a i been anything to go on. Things are going to change. The world's going to change. The country's going to change. Do you just give up because it's going to be too
Episode Evaluation and Star Trek Canon
00:49:52
Speaker
hard? And I think that's the point of this one. There's a great line in here that speaks to that in a minute. But before we get to the great lines, we have to do the fun thing. Usually fun. This will be a tough one. Most cosplayable character or a moment.
00:50:07
Speaker
I picked Cisco when he passed out in his apartment and was wearing that cool little vest. That was cool. I would totally wear that. His apartment was nice. I like the sets in this episode. Yeah, I put Benny Russell just generally, but I kind of like Jimmy. I like the Jake character. That would be, nah, look, I could pull off, but that would be a fun one. I mean, they all had Emmy worthy looks, clearly. That's right. That's right. Take a look, any look, and they're great.
00:50:34
Speaker
ah Now it's time for the Linemus of Dawn. Great lines. There were a couple I liked. What if promised you fresh donuts tomorrow? I'll even throw in a couple crawlers. Okay, I'll stay. I like that. That was just that was just funny. like That made me laugh out loud where he's just going on and on like, I quit because of these donuts. And he's like, fine, I'll give you some fresh ones. He's like, fine, I'll stay.
00:50:56
Speaker
notice He doesn't threaten to quit when when they're like, we're not gonna take these pictures like he doesn't threaten to quit again Like if you don't publish the story I'm quitting or no, no, no, apparently donuts apparently it's a daily fight specifically only about the donuts and nothing else which is like so silly and tedious I'd like so silly but also very real, you know, like that's a real office drama thing is like being irritated about something so small and unimportant and That's true. That scene also, though, does basically end with after the pictures, they're not going to get their pictures taken. Herbert looks at him. They've had this argument already and it's been resolved, but now he's upset about the picture. Then he goes, you're a dog. And that was like, when you hate someone so much or they've done something that's so upsetting to you, sometimes you don't scream. Yeah. Yeah. What else do you have? I'm not a reporter. I'm a writer. That was a Beni line, which was a nice kind of
00:51:54
Speaker
trek trope thing, though he didn't say it in a trek trope way. um I liked when he said, you can't deny Ben Sisko. And of that was all you know part of the the whole speech. So the whole speech was really good. um But that was like one of his exclamation point statements during that speech. for And then I also put, um you're the dream and the you're the dreamer and the dream. Yeah, those are the ones I have. What do you have?
00:52:19
Speaker
that's Those are great. I have Darlene Dax reading Benny Sisko. Ah, she's got a worm in her belly. Oh, that's disgusting. That's interesting, but that's disgusting. That was ah The preacher, before he says, you're the dreamer in the dream, he says, I speak with the voice of the prophets. And in their words, hope and despair walk arm in arm. And then I put the ending line of Sisko, maybe, just maybe, Benny isn't the dream. We are.
00:52:48
Speaker
Maybe we're nothing more than figments of his his imagination. For all we know at this very moment, somewhere far beyond all those distant stars, Benny Russell is dreaming of us. And I think it's nice. I don't think, I think the episode is about like, you gotta keep hoping and you gotta keep striving. You gotta keep trying. Don't give up. And I think that's a hard message sometimes when the chips are really down, when stuff seems really bleak. Would this episode have been a fun Hollow novel to play out?
00:53:18
Speaker
Oh, no, that's it. That's a major no on all levels. Absolutely not. Exclamation point. The Anton Crittian Award for Best Performance. I gave this one to Quark.
00:53:34
Speaker
because I just felt like throughout the episode, and obviously, so the Shatner I gave to Avery Brooks, but um you could but i gave that I gave this one to Quark because he was just so passionate and believable the whole episode. like I just believed this character. This character was just so real and felt real for the time. And even the part when he's like about to fight, because he's like, you called me a commie, take that back. And he's like about to you know fist fight with Odor or whatever. All of it just seemed real.
00:54:02
Speaker
yeah I originally put down the whole cast. I thought did great performances because they did a great job of being out of their makeup and being different people. But then I totally agree. Avery Brooks, definitely the Shatner, he was absolutely going for it. But I also think he had moments that were as good as any performance. I i thought it was great. I think the The thing that everyone will point to is his big breakdown scene. And I think that's a breakdown that's working on many levels. Anyway, again, the Shatner is not a bad thing. ah Shoot to thrill, the most exciting image or sequence. Exciting is a tough word, at least for my choices, because I have a tie. But what do you have? Do you have anything for this?
00:54:44
Speaker
I do. Um, I like when Cisco got hit by the taxi, just like that whole backlot scene. I was like, Ooh, like I just love that the taxis and and like all the people and the crowds and because that's exactly what I used to live in New York. That's exactly what it looks like now. Like that's exactly what it looks like now. So it was just interesting to be like, Oh, it was this crowded and crazy and nutso in the fifties. Also, it was just as many people in cars and things.
00:55:07
Speaker
yeah i I really like that scene. And then when they did that scene, he kind of like, he opened the door and walked into the middle street and then was hit. Like the shock of that transition was also really great. And there's also, I think he looks back and he's in a white space. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot going on. That's a good one. Let's go with that. I like that the best.
00:55:26
Speaker
there's a There's a flash when he's getting beaten up and you see the cops turn into Takat and Weyoun. And that, even as a teenager, I was like, this is intense. ands yeah you know It was a very well done scene, very well directed. so ah But I think your'res there's a lot of chaos in that opening image that really works. ah What part of this will you teach at Starfleet Academy? I have no idea. That's what I put in my notes. There might be some discussion of the neural activity caused on human brain patterns by the wormhole aliens. That's what I got. Bashir studying your brain patterns. This is odd. So we can know when somebody hallucinates and then passes out. We can know that it's because of wormhole aliens. More like these nonlinear aliens are able to influence
00:56:09
Speaker
brain patterns, I guess, in this way. That's unmistakably the fingerprint of a wormhole. But maybe I got to also imagine that the lesson of this episode is somehow taught in Starfleet Academy, that obviously the social progress on Earth and the post scarcity society, what that can do to think to to civilizations and intercultural interpersonal relationships. But I guess the idea of not giving up, of striving, of of of believing in something so strongly that it it fuels you even in the darkest times. That seems like some version of that gets tough. I would hope it's not just some particularly spirited instructor who teaches that. you know But could you imagine Tilly teaching any of these lessons? She's like, guys, I don't know how anyone, folks, I don't know how anyone got out of the dark ages. It seems really tough.
00:57:02
Speaker
But, um, you know, like we're here now and, um, you guys are really nice. I'm going to take a leave of absence. I know we just started the semester,
00:57:14
Speaker
but this is a lot and I need a break. Oh, I love Tilly. I have some questions to ask. Oh, Tilly's great. Just sit perhaps teaching isn't her their best role. I don't know. We'll find out soon enough. Could this episode have been hornier and would that have made it better? ah No, Michael Dorn's baseball player is horny enough. That's that's a good amount of horny. All right, so Trek, Merry, or Kill, Far Beyond the Stars. So this one was actually hard for me. like ah i want to give it So I want to give it a trek because it's a great episode, but it's
00:57:48
Speaker
It's not a, it's a great episode, but it's not about Cisco as Cisco. Kind of like Interlight is not about Picard as Picard. It's a great episode, but it's about Picard living a whole different life as opposed to the character I know and love. So part of me feels like, does this fit with the whole theme? Because it's not me seeing Cisco as Cisco, but the other part of me is wants to make it a marry because I think this is just an excellent episode of television, period.
00:58:15
Speaker
having nothing to do with Star Trek. Well, I think we should marry it because at least to to to the point about, is this about Star Trek at all? Unlike In Our Light, Sisko has a question at the very beginning before the the before the hallucination's division starts, and he answers the question at the end.
00:58:33
Speaker
And I think the fact that his father's kind of counseling through him through this is important. I think as it's a 26 episode season kind of dilemma, right? it's not We know he's not gonna stop being a captain or stopping in Star Trek. right But in terms of like,
00:58:50
Speaker
At the same time, it it's like he is trying to think about what's going on here. Are we going to win this war? The war is a major part of the story. Cisco's whole storyline starts with, I think I'm going to leave Starfleet.
00:59:05
Speaker
And it takes the wormhole aliens interceding like just this accidental meaning of them and going through this whole experience to recognize like, no, I want to stay in Starfleet. I want to stay on Deep Space Nine. And then to be basically the head of the war against the Dominion, this.
00:59:23
Speaker
intergalactic threat that's got the Federation on its heels and it's not looking good like he could be the reason to follow the Federation. I think it's pretty meaningful and versus inner light which yeah is lacking that extra edge of like it's like it never happened. Exactly right and it doesn't you know Patrick Stewart plays that character differently after the inner light because Patrick Stewart's an amazing actor But it's not like it was a writing question for him of like, do I want to be a ah different person? Do I want to be out of Starfleet? This or that. And and here it's basically like I'm losing. Cisco is basically asking the question like, I've lost so much trying to do this.
01:00:03
Speaker
Is it worth it to keep going? And I think that's pretty important. That's pretty valuable when you're halfway through season six and you've got basically a season and a half left of the entire series. I think
Preview of Upcoming Episodes
01:00:14
Speaker
it makes sense. So I'm glad you said marry because I think we should just marry. it I think I think it's a great episode of TV. It looks great. I think it's well acted and directed. I thought the writing was pretty solid. So.
01:00:25
Speaker
Yeah, I'll buy that. Yeah. I'll buy that. Let's give it a Mary. There we go. Again, any episode where we've got those, we've got Quarkanodo arguing with each other and you loved it. looked so All right. So fantastic. We're off to a nice start here with our inner light month, which will continue next week. But Charisse, you'll be back in a couple of months until then, because I know people out there, the fans want to hear you. Where can they find you or see you?
01:00:53
Speaker
You can find me on YouTube if you type in at the Sci-Fi Savage, and you can come and join our weekly live streams where we talk all things Star Trek. All right, and like I said, we're going to continue Interlight Month next week with Carbon Creek. Jolene Blaylock plays two roles in order to tell a story about the time T'Paul's grandmother was grant was stranded on Earth amongst humans. Is that why T'Paul is able to put up with their smell, I wonder?
01:01:22
Speaker
I'll be joined by the crew from the Star Trek podcast Enterprise Blaming to talk about Star Trek Enterprises Carbon Creek. And we'll figure out if it's the Trekmarry or Kill. We're TrekmarryKpod on social media, trekmarrykillpod.com on the web where you can see all of our standings. And so until next week, DMK out. Bye.