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More Than Music with Kate Fogg
113 Plays17 days ago
A special episode of Apocalypse Duds in store: Kate Fogg, Rage Against The Machine's unofficial documentarian, in the stu. How and why she started her fan page, first exposures to Rage, Kate tells us about first hearing the band and not yet speaking English, we probe the depths of appreciation the way only an archivist can, we talk about her and our political radicalization as teens, and how worldviews were formed, and white whales of collecting, and MORE !!!!!
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Transcript
Welcome and Introduction
00:00:01
Conor Fowler
Welcome Kate Fogg to Apocalypse Duds Studios here. Kate is an elementary teacher in France and runs a Rage Against the Machine fan account, which is quite awesome and has a lot of photos that I have not seen. Matt and I, of course, are longtime fans of the band.
00:00:22
Conor Fowler
um But it really seems to be a deep ah deep dive into the lore of the band Rage Against the Machine, which is, of course, one of the great bands of all time.
Discovering the Fan Account
00:00:32
matt
Yeah, ah Kate, I think I, I want to say I found your account just on explore one day when I was like, you know, doom scrolling as we all do. And I was just like, holy shit. Like I'm um huge rage fan, huge inside out fan also.
00:00:46
matt
Um, and hard stance a little bit lower, but still up there. So it's, it's cool. you're You're doing an awesome thing with that.
00:00:55
Kate
Thank you. Thank you. and
00:00:57
matt
Yeah. so So how long have you been running the page?
00:01:03
Kate
I started the to run this page almost two years ago in 2023 in September.
00:01:09
matt
Okay.
00:01:13
matt
Gotcha.
00:01:15
matt
Yeah, and so you're you're in France. what What part, just out of curiosity? and
00:01:21
Kate
I'm in the west of France near the Atlantic Ocean.
00:01:26
matt
Okay, cool.
00:01:29
Conor Fowler
probably a nice part Probably a nice part of France.
00:01:31
Kate
Yes, it's very beautiful, very really beautiful.
00:01:37
Conor Fowler
So I guess we'll just get right
First Encounter with Rage Against the Machine
00:01:39
Conor Fowler
into it. um How did you find Rage Against the Machine?
00:01:45
Kate
Well, I instantly became a fan of Rage the first time i heard Freedom on the radio back in 1993.
00:01:53
Conor Fowler
Yes.
00:01:55
Kate
ninety three
00:01:57
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:01:57
matt
Oh, wow.
00:01:57
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:01:57
Kate
um
00:01:58
matt
Yeah. Like at the kind of beginning. Fuck. That's awesome.
00:02:02
Kate
Yes, yes, yes. I'd already heard Killing in the Name and I liked it a lot. But freedom came my way at a special time in my life.
00:02:16
Kate
I was going through a difficult family situation with my parents and i was very upset at this time. After a particularly hard and destructive argument, I went up to my room turned on the radio very loudly so as not to hear anything else.
00:02:36
Kate
and It was Zach's voice screaming freedom. And it blew me away, moved me and relieved me. It gave me real emotion that came at the time in my life when I needed to hear it.
Music's Emotional Impact
00:02:55
Kate
Like you need air to breathe.
00:02:58
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:02:58
Kate
I've often said that this song saved my life and I still think it did. Zach's cry was mine that day. 32 years later, now, every time I hear freedom, I still get ghost bumps.
00:03:16
Kate
No matter what I'm doing, i stop, I listen, I remember, and sometimes I still have tears in my eyes.
00:03:16
matt
Oh, that's
00:03:24
matt
right. Man, that's, that's beautiful, honestly. Uh, and
00:03:29
Conor Fowler
That's how I feel about it too.
00:03:29
Kate
That's a true story.
00:03:29
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:03:30
Kate
The true story.
00:03:31
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:03:32
matt
yeah, yeah. It does like in a funny way, because, um, I, I'm, I guess, you know I am a ninety very much a 90s kid. I started listening to alt rock in the in the you know my my kind of like late childhood years from older cousins and things. but like yeah that's That's how music, I feel like, should be for most people.
00:03:55
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:03:55
Kate
Hmm.
00:03:57
Conor Fowler
Yeah, yeah, because of course, when I saw them, ah i just cried. i cried for like 25 minutes. I just wept from their like probably first five songs.
00:04:04
Kate
When.
00:04:07
Conor Fowler
And I feel it right now.
Band's Influence on Fans
00:04:09
Conor Fowler
even Like I just I have a powerful connection to the band and I have since I heard them really just like you.
00:04:19
matt
Yeah, I think I want to say Bulls on Parade may have been the first song that I heard by them that like, you know, I'm sure I had heard others and didn't really, it didn't really put it together.
00:04:20
Kate
when
00:04:30
matt
But like that and then their cover of Ghost of Tom Jode, like the video for it, like that both of those things live, you know, kind of rent free in my head.
00:04:36
Conor Fowler
Yeah, masterful.
00:04:41
matt
Like and every time I hear either I go back to the moment that I heard the first time.
00:04:50
matt
Yeah. So in 1993, it wasn't really easy to get information on, you know, bands and people and and whatnot. So how how did you start?
00:05:00
Kate
No, big I just listen to them on the radio
00:05:02
matt
How did you start going down that rabbit hole?
00:05:08
Kate
I didn't, I've never seen them. i have i had no idea what they look like. And ah I talk about it later, but it was just on radio at that time.
00:05:21
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:05:22
matt
Yeah, wow, that's that's kind of even more impressive.
00:05:25
Kate
And it was only Killing in the Name and Freedom. Then it was Bullet in the Head too.
00:05:31
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:05:31
Kate
Okay.
Deeper Meaning and Societal Messages
00:05:35
Conor Fowler
Yeah, and so like the Matrix hadn't come out yet, which I feel was a lot of people's big exposure to Rage Against the Machine. Of course, they had like kind of publicized themselves to a great degree, but I think that them being like kind of the kind of the house band for the matrix movie was really significant for them.
00:05:59
Kate
And then I saw the video and ah that was at that time that I knew what the song was about. Because when I was a kid, I didn't speak English and ah I didn't and immediately understand what the song was about.
00:06:18
Kate
it came later.
00:06:19
matt
Right.
00:06:20
Kate
And when ah when I saw the video, and the
00:06:21
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:06:25
Kate
i it was a second shock. Because ah it was the first time I'd seen them physically. And the clip is so powerful. And it made me want to understand and to know more about it.
00:06:43
Conor Fowler
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:06:44
Kate
as as think You don't understand me?
00:06:44
Conor Fowler
I'm sorry. I just wrote that down. that you that you didn't, you were not speaking English when you were listening to them for the first time, and you really, like, they were still, you were still sold.
00:06:58
Conor Fowler
Like, it's still, no, I do understand you. I'm saying when you were listening to them first and you didn't even speak English, the band was, like, really big in your face.
00:07:06
Kate
Ah, yes. yes
00:07:12
Kate
Yes. Yes. um
00:07:14
Conor Fowler
So that's amazing.
Managing Fan Community
00:07:15
Conor Fowler
I mean, I think that that speaks to their, That speaks to their broad appeal, basically. I mean, and lots of different people do leverage against the machines.
00:07:24
Kate
Yes. But the first time when I heard them, I didn't know what what it was about. and it was just a few months later that I understand it. but um I want to to make these things clear because ah keeping an neck account on Rage Against the Machine means having to deal with haters every day.
00:07:48
Kate
And yes, and these haters are not directed to me at me personally.
00:07:49
matt
Oh, yes.
00:07:57
Kate
They are directed at the band and Zach. But that that's why i want to make it clear because ah I know exactly what the context of the song, but it was not the case it 1993, because was too young at that you.
00:08:13
matt
Right.
00:08:13
Kate
it because the was
00:08:14
matt
They...
00:08:14
Kate
ah young i was too young at that time
00:08:17
Conor Fowler
Will you say, i don't know.
00:08:17
matt
they
00:08:19
Conor Fowler
I'm sorry. I kind of think of them as an unimpeachable band. So like who is, are people like commenting on your page saying like Ridge Against the Machine sucks? um
00:08:30
Kate
and Yes, there are a lot, a lot, a lot of haters.
00:08:35
Conor Fowler
Really? That's so strange. Cause even, even in the right wing of America, even Republicans in America love Ridge Against the Machine. They don't know what it's about. but they still like it.
00:08:47
Kate
don't know.
00:08:47
Conor Fowler
They think it's good music.
00:08:49
Kate
Yes, so so some people a lot of people are talking about ah vax. A lot of people are talking about rage for the machine. It is very, very stupid.
00:08:50
Conor Fowler
So I think that's amazing.
00:09:03
Kate
People are wasting their time to leave comments on my page, but then don't keep these comments because I want to make yeah people to feel good when they read the comments on my page.
00:09:19
matt
Yeah. I've also noticed, I don't know if it's everything that they post, like from their actual, you know, own account, but nine times out of 10, the comments are turned off, probably because it gets overwhelming with the amount of like bullshits you got to deal with.
00:09:35
Kate
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the reason. But so I think it's it's good to to to let people leave some comments because so it's so interesting to have some people experience ofs of of different things.
00:09:56
Kate
ah
00:09:57
Kate
The first time they heard them, it's is very interesting to to read all that. and all Other people can can read it also. And I don't want to turn off the comments for this reason.
00:09:57
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
Motivation and Documentation
00:10:11
matt
yeah I get it.
00:10:12
Conor Fowler
For nostalgia, like collective nostalgia. And really the thing that we're trying, or one of the things that we're trying to get into is like, why document them in the first place or why, i guess this is kind of what we're driving at here. Like,
00:10:28
Conor Fowler
what is the motive for documenting this specific band?
00:10:34
Kate
Yes. um oh As I said, when I have first listened to Freedom or Killing in a Name, I didn't understand the lyrics because of the language barrier.
00:10:47
Kate
But thanks to the music videos, I realized that there was they were more to them than the music. And that this band had something very special to bring me.
00:10:47
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:10:59
Kate
um When I read Leonard Peltier's story. I wanted to find out more about the plight of Native Americans. I asked for books at Christmas at my at my parents.
00:11:07
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:11:11
Kate
And i I was dreaming of going and living there and defending their cause. I remember at that time, my family didn't really know who I was anymore.
00:11:22
Kate
And it was a period in my life who um which I changed a lot and my vision of the world was forged. it It was very important. This band played and a really important part in my view of the world when I was a teenager.
00:11:42
Kate
i was a teenager
00:11:44
Conor Fowler
When you were, it was like, I don't know. I think that what happened at a high level with Rage Against the Machine at the end was that they were thinking people aren't appreciating what we are saying.
00:11:56
Conor Fowler
People are misunderstanding what we're saying and we're maybe making things worse. um But there are a ton of people, the three of us ah and and many, many, many other people who I think are radicalized by Rage Against the Machine, like in large part,
00:12:15
Kate
when when when um at At that time, i only had a very European vision of this whole historical period.
00:12:28
Kate
When the story of the conquest of the West was told at school, um the heroic explorers who made it possible to get to know the world better stopped.
00:12:28
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:12:39
Conor Fowler
Sure. Christopher Columbus among them.
00:12:40
Kate
The band taught me the truth.
00:12:42
Kate
so The band really taught me the truth. Genocide, colonization, murder. i It's not always easy to put yourself back in the context of the time. What I mean is most people know their story and their message because they went to fame.
00:12:42
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:12:57
Conor Fowler
Mm hmm.
00:12:58
Kate
But they were very new at the time.
00:13:02
matt
Right.
00:13:02
Kate
They had just arrived and a lot of people didn't know them very well. And later, Evil Empire came out. And I learned a lot about Izzy Delen and Chiapas.
00:13:14
Kate
um
00:13:14
Conor Fowler
Sure.
Creating the Fan Page
00:13:15
Kate
All this knowledge I'd never have had if I hadn't listened to rage, or at least not so early in my life.
00:13:19
matt
Right.
00:13:23
matt
yeah So when did you when did you start compiling, you know, kind of what would become your um your fan page for them, like the the archival footage and and photos and things?
00:13:36
Kate
but Sorry, I didn't understand.
00:13:39
matt
Oh, yeah when did you start, you know, finding old archival like videos and photos and things of the band um prior to starting your page?
00:13:50
Kate
um yeah I found a lot of photos and videos on internet. I had already some a lot of photos on my my laptop.
00:14:02
Kate
Oh
00:14:02
Conor Fowler
so you were like you like have been collecting them all along
00:14:07
Kate
um yes.
00:14:09
Conor Fowler
that's so tight yeah that's really awesome that's like and this is like the pure love that this show is about
00:14:10
matt
Yeah, that's that's fantastic.
00:14:20
Kate
I have a lot of magazines and other stuff, but yes, i was I had a lot of so things, the real stories that I was telling so their story to my best friend i every time, every time.
00:14:37
Kate
And one day she told me that I should tell all those stories to other people. And she she told me that I should try on social media.
00:14:48
Kate
And I was like, oh, no, I don't think, I don't know how it works. And I tried. ah tried in September 2023. And next. I didn't
00:15:08
Kate
there so i didn't think that um my accounts should became what is like now
00:15:17
matt
That's cool.
00:15:18
Conor Fowler
Because it's because it's kind of a.
00:15:19
Kate
Sorry, it's not it's not clear.
00:15:21
Conor Fowler
No, no, it is clear. I mean, it's like you, the thing became something that you didn't expect.
Collecting Rare Items
00:15:27
Kate
Oh no, absolutely not. Because ah i I didn't know Instagram before. I had an account just ah like everybody, but starting to post a photo it was it was incredible to me.
00:15:27
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:15:43
Kate
and when I see a a lot of people starting to follow my page, it was incredible. um ah Really incredible. um
00:15:52
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:15:52
Kate
And I still don't believe it.
00:15:52
matt
Yeah.
00:15:54
Kate
ah
00:15:55
matt
Well, yeah're you've almost become a part of their history just because you are so invested, which is wonderful. Yeah.
00:16:03
Kate
I don't know. i don't really know. I'm one more account.
00:16:08
Conor Fowler
I don't know. I mean, is there is there anyone else doing what you do?
00:16:08
Kate
I don't know.
00:16:11
Conor Fowler
It doesn't seem like it to to me in my limited research abilities.
00:16:18
Kate
I spend a lot of time. That's right. ah
00:16:20
Conor Fowler
Hell yeah.
00:16:21
Kate
A lot of time.
00:16:21
matt
yeah
00:16:22
Conor Fowler
Hell yeah. That's excellent.
00:16:23
matt
Are you still like and right out of curiosity, do you still look for like old magazines and things that feature them that you don't have?
00:16:25
Kate
i
00:16:33
Kate
ah Sometimes I read the old magazines that I have. Sometimes I'm looking for new old magazines on eBay, I don't know, ah to to get more of them.
00:16:42
matt
Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:43
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:16:46
Kate
ah Sometimes I'm looking still on eBay to to try to get some or nice stuff about them. But it's pretty rare.
00:16:59
Kate
whether What I've not, but I love to have their cassettes with the matchstick, the first cassette of 1992, you know.
00:17:09
matt
Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:09
Kate
a
00:17:11
Conor Fowler
That would be very something.
00:17:11
Kate
i don't i don't have it. it's It's my dream to have it. But in 1992, the cassette was about $5 at the end of the concert.
00:17:21
matt
Yeah.
00:17:23
Kate
concert And now um i've just saw one of them yesterday on eBay and it was $600 or $700. Yes. Yes. don't buy it. don't it.
00:17:35
matt
Oh, good grief.
00:17:37
Kate
or
00:17:37
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:17:37
Kate
seven hundred yes yes
00:17:40
Conor Fowler
Wow.
00:17:41
Kate
so i don't by it's on but see
00:17:44
matt
Yeah.
00:17:45
Conor Fowler
but Yeah. Well, and that kind of shit, it's just like, you know, what do you it would be awesome to have, but it would be hard to justify.
00:17:56
Kate
Yes. i guess yeah
00:17:58
matt
Yeah. man maybe Maybe you'll get lucky one day at a record store and they won't know what they have.
00:17:58
Kate
There is another thing.
00:18:03
Conor Fowler
Yeah. yeah
00:18:03
Kate
Yeah. Yeah. It's a little treasure. I hope. still keep hope.
00:18:10
matt
Yeah.
00:18:10
Kate
But there's another stuff, another thing I'd love to get. It's an orange t-shirt, fucked t-shirt Zykes was wearing in the clip, pulling in the head.
00:18:25
Kate
You see, MTV UK. No.
00:18:30
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:18:30
matt
Oh, I think I've seen this. Yeah.
00:18:31
Kate
so it's um It was the second time ah I was watching at them. um this This clip, I think it was in 1993, but maybe I watched it in 1994.
00:18:51
Kate
um secretly in my parents' bedroom on a small TV. um And it was another shock because i they were very different ah than in a Freedom clip.
00:19:07
Kate
ah Literally, Zach looked like a rapper and he was wearing this orange T-shirt, fucked T-shirt. And it was really a dream to to to have this T-shirt too.
00:19:22
Conor Fowler
but because their merch is pretty like expensive uh the i mean the rare stuff is expensive of course um
00:19:23
matt
Right.
00:19:31
Kate
Oh, yeah.
Exploring Side Projects
00:19:32
Kate
Yeah.
00:19:34
Conor Fowler
because i have the i have that shirt that has the cia like malatov manual in the back which i think is like they just really had it going for a time
00:19:45
matt
Yeah. I had a good friend hook me up with a, I believe it's a 90, six or eight tour shirt. the um It's the one with the photo of them in their practice space that a friend of mine had in high school and a buddy of mine found that shirt and like hooked me up pretty hard with it.
00:20:05
matt
So it's a, yeah, one of my prized possessions.
00:20:10
Kate
All
00:20:12
matt
So, okay.
00:20:12
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:20:14
matt
so Kate, you're, from what I'm, from what I understand from following you for, I guess, like year and a half at this point. um
00:20:24
matt
Zach is your friend is kind of your favorite member, right?
00:20:29
Kate
um right.
00:20:30
matt
Okay. ah So hal did you know how did you hearing them as a kid in 1993 lead you to to the other projects that he'd been involved with?
00:20:41
matt
um when did When did that start to happen?
00:20:45
Kate
um about, sorry, about Rach or about Zach?
00:20:51
matt
oh ah about so like About Zach's other bands, like Inside Out, Hard Stance.
00:20:51
Kate
Oh,
00:20:55
matt
I think he played in 108 for a short period.
00:20:56
Kate
oh yeah.
00:20:58
matt
I've seen you post a video of him in Farside, who is one of my favorite bands.
00:21:01
Kate
Yeah.
00:21:02
Kate
Yeah. um
00:21:02
matt
you know When did you start to find go that that deep into it?
00:21:06
matt
Because this would have been you know pre-internet.
00:21:07
Kate
It was late. Yes, it was really... Yes, it was through internet. So it was later. i knew about those bands, especially Inside Out, but i I had never seen any videos at that time.
00:21:25
Kate
It came later. I don't remember when, but it came later. and the And thanks to my account and to Instagram, it allows me to meet some people who knew some member and who went to some shows and it's really, really interesting to to to talk to them.
00:21:53
Kate
it's ah ae It's the same. that I didn't expect it. so that i I never knew that one day I could talk to those people.
00:22:08
matt
Right. Yeah, that's fantastic.
00:22:12
Kate
And i read the I read some documentary interviews about the band, about Inside Out, Stands.
00:22:12
Conor Fowler
That's living the dream, kind of. Mm-hmm.
00:22:20
Kate
I had a nice conversation with Alex Barreto and to Joey Pirro.
00:22:31
Kate
You know them?
00:22:34
Kate
The drummer, Alex Barreto.
00:22:35
matt
Yes, yeah yes, yes.
00:22:37
Kate
Yeah. Yeah. And Joey Piero was the last drummer of Inside Out in 1991.
00:22:44
matt
Right, right. They went through drummers, that's for sure.
00:22:48
Kate
And they told me some nice stories about the band and it was very interesting. So um I recently learned a lot about the story of Inside Out and Heart Stances.
00:22:59
Kate
And it's it's pretty awesome. i like i like
Musical Influences
00:23:02
Kate
it. um All those people from the hardcore era that I can talk to are very nice and always sir how we' always happy to share their stories.
00:23:13
matt
Yeah.
00:23:17
Kate
It's really cool.
00:23:18
matt
Yeah, I feel like that's kind of unique to punk and hardcore.
00:23:22
matt
um You know, the the oral histories of it are very important to all of us who were involved in some way, shape or form.
00:23:31
Conor Fowler
Certainly less so for, I don't know, more corporate genres of music, which sounds like eye rolling, but you know what I mean?
00:23:32
Kate
oh
00:23:40
Conor Fowler
Like it is a ground up DIY um movement or scene, you know? And so I think that that kind of oral tradition has its has its place here.
00:23:59
Kate
um see I think ah Rage roots are in the hardcore music and punk music because it was the roots of Zach.
00:24:08
matt
Yeah.
00:24:08
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:24:14
Kate
I think Inside Out is a very you popular band and people, I can see it through the comments, are still very great fans of the band and there's only one EP about the band and
00:24:33
Kate
we we We all would love you to have more about the band, more songs.
00:24:34
matt
yeah
00:24:42
matt
Oh, yeah. And in my opinion, they're very underrated. They don't, you know, they're kind of an if-you-know-you-know band and don't get don't get nearly the the admiration that they deserve.
00:25:00
Kate
I don't know.
00:25:01
Conor Fowler
I'd
00:25:01
Kate
um i what What does really mean the word underrated? I can't really translate this word. um When I try to translate, it's always like a band who didn't have a lot of success.
00:25:20
Kate
I don't know if it's a good translation. I don't know.
00:25:26
Conor Fowler
i'd say that's kind of correct.
00:25:27
matt
Yeah, that's that's pretty correct. Underrated, you know, in my opinion, is is a band that is very much an incredible band, but they don't get talked about. And as you kind of said, like not as much is known about them because they never really, never really exploded in popularity.
00:25:46
matt
it was was kind of people, you know, oh, I found this band.
00:25:46
Kate
Mm.
00:25:50
matt
You should check it out. Instead of like, oh, they're, you know, they're ah like, playing like on a Fugazi type of level.
00:26:01
matt
I don't know if you like Fugazi, but that might be, you know, my idea of the biggest like kind of quote punk hardcore band, you know, like they they were so beloved and Inside Out deserves to be like on a similar level to me.
00:26:03
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:26:06
Kate
Mm. oo
00:26:17
Kate
Yeah, I agree. i we agree with that because it's a great band with a great message. And during shows, Zach was doing a great speeches.
00:26:29
Kate
It was really the beginning for him.
00:26:34
matt
Right.
00:26:34
Kate
And um when we listened to the other
00:26:44
Kate
speeches in Rage Against the Machine, You can remember speeches in inside out.
00:26:52
Conor Fowler
Yeah, there's like a direct line.
00:26:55
matt
Yeah. that would Did you, were you into punk and hardcore as a, as a kid and teenager also, as you were growing up?
00:27:03
Kate
um Yeah, I'm still listening to a lot of punk music.
00:27:10
matt
Fuck yeah. I've heard some really good French hardcore and punk bands over the years.
00:27:11
Kate
Sorry, I didn't.
00:27:14
matt
So I would imagine that there's there's a good scene there.
00:27:18
Kate
i Sorry, I don't listen to do a lot of French music. Sorry.
00:27:23
matt
Oh, interesting.
00:27:24
Kate
where it were
00:27:24
matt
Okay. Yeah.
00:27:25
Kate
okay um I can't tell you what I'm listening to when I'm at home or to spend good time. um
00:27:36
matt
Yeah.
00:27:36
Kate
i'm I'm listening to to a lot of of punk music. um I've been really interested to... the band that influenced Zach when he was teenager too.
00:27:53
Kate
And um I listened to those bands and um Bad Religion, Dead Kennedy, Descendants, Circle Jerk, Rancid, Social Distortion.
00:28:00
matt
Oh, yes.
00:28:02
Conor Fowler
Sure.
00:28:02
matt
Yes.
00:28:08
Kate
oh i forget a lot, but it gives you an idea, I think.
00:28:10
matt
Oh, ah
00:28:14
matt
that's a great, yeah.
00:28:14
Conor Fowler
No, those are yeah, those are the like, yeah, some of the four forbearers.
00:28:15
matt
Greatness.
00:28:18
Kate
i'm i i I listen to French rap from the 90s.
00:28:26
matt
Okay.
00:28:28
Kate
And I listen also to band, I don't know if you know them, lemanau La Mano Negra.
00:28:28
matt
okay
00:28:37
Kate
La Mano Negra.
00:28:39
matt
I don't.
00:28:39
Kate
It's so ah it's um was the first band of Manu Chao.
00:28:40
Conor Fowler
Hmm. I see
00:28:44
Kate
Manu Chau, you know? No?
00:28:49
Kate
You don't know.
00:28:49
matt
No, no, I don't know.
00:28:52
Kate
It's a French singer which has Spanish roots and is very popular popular in South America, Mexico.
00:29:05
matt
Okay.
00:29:07
Conor Fowler
i can see
00:29:07
Kate
And a he sang about Chiapas too.
Balancing Passion and Privacy
00:29:11
Kate
It's very interesting. you You should listen to Manu Chow.
00:29:18
Kate
And I listen also to reggae, Bob Marley. But so
00:29:18
matt
Yeah.
00:29:18
Conor Fowler
We'll put it in the show notes.
00:29:25
Kate
i I almost listen to American bands.
00:29:25
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:29:33
Conor Fowler
Did you say you almost listened to American bands?
00:29:37
Kate
Yes. But punk music, not metal music.
00:29:43
matt
Right, right. No, no, no metal.
00:29:44
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:29:45
matt
Damn. but I'm just gonna
00:29:46
Kate
No, I'm not a middle-head.
00:29:47
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:29:49
matt
Uh,
00:29:49
Conor Fowler
i want I wanted to quickly ask you about, you said you're a teacher. um
00:29:55
Kate
Yeah.
00:29:57
Conor Fowler
does Do you incorporate this radical music into your teaching?
00:30:04
Kate
um Not really. and Sometimes may listen to my students some punk music, but not rage.
00:30:06
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:30:12
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:30:13
Kate
ah not so i so I told them ah but about yeah
00:30:19
Conor Fowler
two new bad words.
00:30:22
Kate
ah about the band, but I didn't make them listen to their song. um
00:30:29
Conor Fowler
What do you think they would think if they knew that you ran a rage against the machine account like you do?
00:30:29
Kate
all
00:30:34
Kate
Ah, um I think they wouldn't believe me.
00:30:43
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:30:43
matt
Right.
00:30:44
Kate
and there ah I think it's so crazy. And I don't want to say my real name because I don't want their parents to to see me on Instagram.
00:30:57
Conor Fowler
You don't, yeah, no, no, no, no.
00:31:02
Kate
instagram
00:31:02
matt
right
00:31:03
Conor Fowler
It's a great, it's a great pseudonym for what it's worth. Um, uh, nickname, uh, assumed name, whatever.
00:31:13
matt
ah has anyone that you know found the page and been like, hey, you should check this out. It's all about Rage Against the Machine.
00:31:23
Kate
so If I know someone who would we'll say that?
00:31:28
matt
Yeah, like like someone that didn't know that's your page, you know, a friend that that might have seen it and thought.
00:31:34
Kate
i just Just my best friend. Just one person. my best friend
00:31:38
matt
Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, that's.
00:31:40
Conor Fowler
You keep it under wraps.
00:31:40
Kate
just one person
00:31:44
Kate
just one person. i i never, never say anyone that I had an Instagram account.
00:31:55
matt
Ha ha ha ha.
00:31:55
Kate
And there's another thing that sir I can say. That in 1993, when I started to be fan of Rage, I hadn't told anyone that I was ah fan of this band.
00:32:11
Kate
um As I said, i watched i was watching ah video secretly. ah My brother and sister were where older than me, then already left home, and none of my friends knew them or listened to this kind of music.
00:32:22
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:32:29
Kate
So I kept it to myself.
00:32:30
Conor Fowler
That is so cool.
00:32:31
Kate
and Yes.
00:32:32
matt
Yeah.
00:32:33
Kate
And I just asked for the album to my ah for my birthday, and I remember the stern look um of my family's faces when they saw this man set himself on fire.
00:32:47
Kate
And I remember everyone looking at the album and making comments and I didn't say anything, but I was delighted that people were so surprised.
Favorite Tracks and Albums
00:32:57
matt
Right, right. That's that's fantastic.
00:33:00
Conor Fowler
That's wonderful.
00:33:01
matt
Yeah.
00:33:02
Conor Fowler
That's so good.
00:33:03
matt
like i I feel like lot a lot of people that you know get into like alternative music, for lack of a better word, you know like if you if no one around you is listening to it, it's it's your secret.
00:33:20
matt
And it's like your special it's your special thing.
00:33:20
Kate
Yes. and and yes and And I was so young and I was telling it was muck.
00:33:32
matt
Yes, yes. it's It's a special, you know, it's a it's a great feeling when you're, when like, for me, it happened when I was, like, 10 or 11. And I was like, yeah, this, like, I'm cooler than all of you because you don't know what this is.
00:33:47
Conor Fowler
Yeah, it's so funny. It's like... um Because I remember ah talking ah talking about like confiscation of media. um I had my grandmother buy me Blink-182's Enema of the State. i don't know if I've talked about this on the show. I probably have.
00:34:06
Conor Fowler
and It has like a nurse with like a glove, you know like a hot nurse, whatever, and a skirt. And my grandfather sees it and he's like... he can't have that.
00:34:17
Conor Fowler
It's like, he catt just can't have that I'm like 10 or 11. I probably shouldn't have it. That's right. But the point is Rage Against the Machine album cover is that self-immolation from the Vietnam war, which is so fucking different.
00:34:33
Conor Fowler
ah So that's amazing. Really?
00:34:42
Conor Fowler
You know that album cover, Matt?
00:34:43
matt
Yeah, oh, that album cover's fantastic. Like, I remember seeing it, ah you know, in in CD shops when I was a kid and, like, just being blown away by it.
00:34:53
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:34:56
Conor Fowler
So anyway, it's a strange, I don't know. I feel like it's a strange upbringing. It's like your parents and your whatever want you to be a certain way. And then they know that you aren't anymore.
00:35:10
matt
Right. So, what is What is your favorite album, Kate?
00:35:24
matt
Oh, no.
00:35:25
Conor Fowler
We'll pause it.
00:35:26
matt
Yes.
00:35:27
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:35:27
matt
Yes. What...
00:35:27
Conor Fowler
We're talking about you. What is your favorite rage against the machine album?
00:35:32
Kate
um I said ah I don't like to pick one more than the others because that won't mean like I like the others less, which is not true.
00:35:44
Kate
But if you want me to answer this question anyway, and Freedom is my favorite track, I think, because it holds a special place in my heart.
00:35:44
matt
Right, right.
00:35:55
Kate
And um I also really like What is in the Breath for its energy and what it expresses about Chiapas.
00:35:59
Conor Fowler
I think that's
00:36:04
Kate
um I listen to all the albums really regularly. And I think I listen to the first two a little more often.
00:36:16
Conor Fowler
understandable.
00:36:17
Kate
The first and Evil Empire.
00:36:21
matt
right
00:36:21
Kate
and
00:36:21
matt
Yeah.
00:36:22
Conor Fowler
i think that's yeah i mean i think that's understandable
00:36:22
Kate
I also really...
00:36:26
Kate
Yeah, I don't know, but I also really enjoy listening to the live albums. My favorites are Live and Roar and the live concert at the
00:36:42
Conor Fowler
That's a great show. Yeah. I got that for my birthday when I was like 13. right.
00:36:47
Kate
And there are others albums too, which have a a place of their own as the demo album from 1991 with songs that weren't released on the first album.
00:37:02
Kate
Darkness of Greed, Mindsets of Threat, Clear the Lane, Autologic, The Narrows.
00:37:06
Conor Fowler
great
00:37:09
Kate
And um there are my little favorites too. and You know, the 10-inch People of the Sun from Revelation record Records um on which there are tracks that are
00:37:20
matt
Oh, I forgot about that.
00:37:25
Kate
Sorry?
00:37:26
matt
Oh, I said, I totally forgot about the, that revelation put out that 10 inch.
00:37:29
Kate
Yeah, yeah. On which there are um also um some tracks yeah that are also on live and rare.
00:37:38
matt
Right.
00:37:39
Kate
There are also the 7-inch Evil Empire promotion vinyl from 1996, on which there is a version of a bomb track.
00:37:52
Kate
ah that also features the lyrics of Without a Face. And um and the
00:37:57
Conor Fowler
you You're such an expert. Hell yeah.
00:37:59
matt
Yeah, this is, this is like, I feel like I'm, I'm getting taught a history lesson on a band that I love right now.
00:38:09
Kate
and
00:38:10
Conor Fowler
he yeah
00:38:10
Kate
and it's not Rage, of course, but I want to mention it, the Inside Out EP. It's my little absolute favorite.
00:38:22
matt
Oh yes. Yes.
00:38:23
Conor Fowler
What about renegades that's I know in the questions renegades for those that don't know is rages last album.
00:38:27
Kate
it
00:38:31
Conor Fowler
It's an album of covers that has Tom Joad on it, et cetera.
00:38:32
Kate
and
00:38:36
Kate
It's not the album I listen to the most, but when I do, it's always with of a pleasure.
Significance of 'Renegades'
00:38:43
Kate
I have some favorite songs on this album.
00:38:44
Conor Fowler
Yes.
00:38:45
Kate
um I could say um In My Eyes,
00:38:49
Kate
the cover of Minor Street, Down on the Streets, from the Stooges, Kick of the Jam,
00:38:49
Conor Fowler
Very good.
00:38:50
matt
Oh, yes, yes.
00:38:59
Conor Fowler
Pissile grip pump.
00:39:02
Kate
The Coast of Tom Jode from Springsteen.
00:39:05
matt
Yes, that's.
00:39:05
Kate
um I like the others too.
00:39:09
matt
Yeah, the ghost of Tom Joad, I said earlier, like it just has a special place in my heart and anytime Like anytime I, I don't know, I go put on that video immediately. I'm just like, fuck yeah.
00:39:25
Kate
Yeah.
00:39:26
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:39:26
Kate
It's a video from 1997.
00:39:27
Kate
Yeah, it's great video.
00:39:27
Conor Fowler
I remember playing that song for my mother.
00:39:29
matt
Yes. Yes.
00:39:31
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:39:32
matt
Yeah. It was, it was kind of like one of the first videos that I ever saw. i think that had like almost all, if not all live footage and just watching,
00:39:44
matt
Watching the crowd react to the band, i was just blown away.
00:39:48
Kate
me yeah it's a great video
00:39:53
Kate
That's right.
00:39:53
matt
It really is.
00:39:55
Kate
It's from the 1997 in Irvine.
00:40:01
matt
Oh, really?
00:40:01
Kate
and now yeah And yeah, there are green lights on the ah stage and the atmosphere is very special. It's beautiful.
00:40:14
Kate
It's a beautiful video.
00:40:17
matt
It truly is. Do you, out of curiosity, play any instruments? Do you play you know an instrument and pin play rage songs?
00:40:26
Kate
a Not really. ah I learned to play the keyboard ah long time ago, but I never learned to play rage with the keyboard.
00:40:36
matt
Right.
00:40:36
Kate
I'd like to learn to play guitar one day, but I don't know.
00:40:38
matt
Yeah.
00:40:40
Kate
I'm not a great musician.
00:40:43
matt
yeah Well, if you can play keyboards,
00:40:43
Conor Fowler
this
00:40:44
Kate
But I can. i I still play a little on keyboard, very little.
00:40:51
matt
yeah Yeah, I think you could you could transition that into guitar.
00:40:56
Kate
It could be great, but i I need more time to learn the guitar.
00:41:01
matt
Yeah.
00:41:02
Conor Fowler
sister
00:41:06
Conor Fowler
I'm sorry I want to ask about Limp Bizkit. um I feel like there couldn't be Limp Bizkit without Raging Against the Machine, which is an odd thing to say, ah but I think that that's definitely true.
00:41:18
Kate
um
00:41:22
Conor Fowler
so we're wondering if you had any thoughts about Fred Durst's outfit, Limp Bizkit.
00:41:22
Kate
I read
00:41:28
Kate
Not really. I'm not really interested that in that band.
00:41:33
Conor Fowler
That's great. No, you're very fortunate to have no knowledge of that band.
00:41:35
Kate
No.
00:41:37
matt
Yeah, yeah. Us on the other side of the Atlantic are not as fortunate to have never heard Limp Bizkit or not paid attention to it. It sucks.
00:41:47
Conor Fowler
They were as big as Rage Against the Machine, for sure. Perhaps bigger.
00:41:52
Kate
I don't know. I just remember when the... in September 2000 for the MTV show when the Rage Against the Machine were was expecting to win ah for the clip to Sleep Now in the Fire and they didn't win so it was the beginning of the end I don't know if we could say that in in English but sir
00:42:12
matt
Right.
00:42:12
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:42:23
Kate
It was September 2000 and Zach left the band one month later.
00:42:23
Conor Fowler
That's right.
00:42:28
matt
Right. Yeah. du As someone that, you know, is so invested in the band, how did that, how did that make you feel that you might not get to ever see them together again?
00:42:45
Kate
um
00:42:49
Kate
i About 2000 or about 2022.
00:42:56
matt
About the the first breakup, you know, when after after the MTV s thing and Zach left.
00:42:59
Kate
The first break.
00:43:03
Kate
Okay. I don't really know if we could call it a a breakup, but just like left the band in October 2000, he phoned Morello to tell him it was all over.
00:43:10
matt
Right, right.
00:43:18
Kate
andza At the time it broke my heart and I cried a lot.
00:43:23
Kate
But over the time, I came to understand that he had these reasons and that it was right to do it.
00:43:23
matt
Yeah.
00:43:23
matt
Yeah.
Zach's Influence and Departure
00:43:32
Kate
isummb bla I don't blame him at all. ah For a long time, ah we didn't really know what he was going on to do next.
00:43:32
matt
right
00:43:44
Kate
And that worried me lot. was always afraid i was always afraid he'd be unhappy, under pressure. We didn't know.
00:43:54
matt
Right.
00:43:55
Kate
And the return of Rage in the late two thousand and along with his new band, One Day as a Lion was a relief, even with Rage, but even if it was only for real Reunion, and there was no new album.
00:43:56
matt
Yeah.
00:44:03
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:44:10
Kate
but I think it was right to left.
00:44:14
Kate
But... Yeah.
00:44:14
matt
Yeah, I can see that.
00:44:15
matt
Zach also, he seems like a sensitive person.
00:44:19
Kate
Yeah. He really is. And he was the youngest of the band in the band. And i think he had a very clear idea of what he wanted the band to sound like.
00:44:30
Kate
And he was very influenced his band Inside Out and Hardcore Roots. Over time, Rage was no longer the band he wanted it to be.
00:44:39
matt
right
00:44:40
Kate
And it had become, i think, it had become a ah big popular machine. And I've never... and After their... as it After Rage, there are other bands like Audioslave.
00:44:55
Kate
I've never listened to Audioslave. And... Yeah.
00:44:58
matt
it's it's It's not... they're I think they put out two records.
00:45:01
Conor Fowler
It's fine.
00:45:03
matt
The first record's fine.
00:45:03
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:45:04
matt
I mean, i love Soundgarden. So Chris Cornell, I love his vocals. But it doesn't it doesn't and never has given me the same fury and and passion.
00:45:10
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:45:17
Conor Fowler
It doesn't rock this thing either.
00:45:18
Kate
you
00:45:19
matt
Yeah, like, it's not it's not nearly as passionate without Zach at the helm. And, you know.
00:45:24
Kate
and
00:45:25
matt
And i don't I don't think that they would even, you Tom Morello and Brad Wolk and, you know Chris Cornell even, like, I think they would probably tell you the same thing.
00:45:37
Conor Fowler
Because I don't think you can measure up.
00:45:37
Kate
i'
00:45:39
Conor Fowler
I don't think you can measure up to Zack la Roca front man. Like, it's just impossible.
00:45:42
matt
No, no, it's very, very, very, very ah yeah, damn near impossible to.
00:45:48
Conor Fowler
It's like Lane Staley, Kurt
Interest in Other Bands
00:45:49
Conor Fowler
Cobain, whatever. it just is like not happening.
00:45:53
Kate
That's right. A lot of people at the time said, oh, it's a return of rage without Zach. And no, it's not rage.
00:46:03
matt
there There is no rage without Zack.
00:46:03
Kate
That's not rage at all.
00:46:05
matt
No.
00:46:06
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:46:07
Kate
No, no, no Zach, no rage.
00:46:09
matt
Nope.
00:46:14
Kate
And
00:46:18
matt
Yeah, man, this...
00:46:18
Kate
no, I've never listened to two prophets of rage either.
00:46:23
matt
Oh, yeah. I forgot that existed, and I'm goingnna gonna just keep forgetting it exists.
00:46:32
matt
Well, Kate, this has been super fun to just nerd out about this and learn a bunch of new things ah about a band that I love and just to hear your passion. So thank you for thank you for doing what you do.
00:46:50
Kate
Thank you for telling me this.
00:46:51
Conor Fowler
Yeah, for real. It's been i mean, it's this has been like, I don't know, a year in the making, basically, but I think it has turned out really well.
00:46:53
Kate
It's a pleasure.
00:47:00
Conor Fowler
And I think people will be happy to hear it.
00:47:02
matt
Yeah.
00:47:02
Conor Fowler
So thanks for coming.
00:47:03
matt
And somehow we're going to get all of us connected to a member or multiple members of the band. And maybe we can do a podcast, all of us with, with the band.
00:47:15
Conor Fowler
Oh, yeah. Hell yeah.
00:47:16
Kate
I would be.
00:47:19
matt
I'm throwing that one out there into the ether and hoping it, uh, it comes true. don't, I don't i't know. We're, we're just a small show talking about shit that we like.
00:47:28
Conor Fowler
We're just a bunch of dreamers.
00:47:30
matt
Yeah, we are a bunch of dreamers.
00:47:30
Kate
ah shes
00:47:32
matt
But um yeah, so tell our listeners your page and if you would like to shout any, you know, anyone else out, go for it.
00:47:32
Kate
and
00:47:46
Kate
Thank you. Thank you very much.
00:47:50
matt
What for our listeners? What's what's the um the handle of your page?
00:47:58
Kate
The aim, the aim.
00:48:02
Kate
Sorry.
00:48:04
matt
Oh, it's okay. It's okay. what What is the Instagram page?
00:48:12
Kate
I'm not sure I understand. Sorry.
00:48:14
Conor Fowler
It's at
00:48:23
Kate
Oh yeah, my name.
00:48:23
matt
Okay. Okay.
00:48:25
Kate
You want to know about my name?
00:48:25
Conor Fowler
Yeah, your name.
00:48:27
Conor Fowler
Yeah, we want to know about your, we wanted to, we so that people can find it when they hear the show.
00:48:28
Kate
Um, Oh.
00:48:35
Kate
Okay. and You want to know the story about my name? No?
00:48:40
matt
Yeah, i would love to know the story about your name.
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:48:45
Kate
i I opened an Instagram account a long time ago and I didn't want ah people to find me with my real name. So I started to find a first name that looks like a bit like my real name.
00:49:03
Kate
and And the last name, I was trying to find something interesting.
00:49:03
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm.
00:49:03
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm. Sure.
00:49:12
Kate
And at that time, with my students, we were reading during the class um a book about Jules Verne m ah around the world 80 with Phileas Fogg.
00:49:27
Conor Fowler
sure
00:49:29
Kate
Phileas Fogg is the main character.
00:49:30
Conor Fowler
Billy Swog, of course, of course. Yeah, there's a guy on this here with that name too.
00:49:32
Kate
Yes. And the book was near my laptop this day, and I decided to take Fogg.
00:49:34
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:49:40
Conor Fowler
Very good.
00:49:40
Kate
It was, uh, it was,
00:49:40
matt
That's great.
00:49:41
Conor Fowler
Well, and it's a pun too, right? Because you're obscuring your identity with fog. Ha ha.
00:49:47
Kate
yes. And it was about, uh, five years before, turning this page to a rich page.
00:49:59
Conor Fowler
Rage page. that That's when you can get some some mileage out of Rage page.
00:49:59
matt
That's great.
00:50:03
matt
Yes. And yeah, if you have any interest in Rage Against the Machine, Inside Out, Zack De La Roca's other various projects. It's a fantastic page to follow. One of my favorites, personally.
00:50:16
Conor Fowler
Yeah, seriously. You could go very deep.
00:50:19
matt
We could go very deep. But yes, Kate, one more time, thank you for coming on um and sharing your passion with us. um Everyone, thank you for listening.
00:50:29
matt
I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
00:50:33
Conor Fowler
And I'm Connor Flower at Connor Flower.
00:50:36
matt
And we will see you next week.
00:50:40
Kate
Thank you Thank you for inviting me.
00:50:44
matt
Anytime. Anytime.
00:50:45
Conor Fowler
Yeah, thank you. The pleasure is ours.
00:50:48
matt
Oh, also, apocalypseduds at gmail.com or Instagram at apocalypseduds.
00:50:54
Conor Fowler
Listen, we'll give you a fucking prize if you email us.
00:50:54
matt
wait
00:50:59
Conor Fowler
How about that?
00:50:59
matt
Yes. Yes. well We'll figure something out. It probably won't be.
00:51:03
Conor Fowler
We'll sweeten the deal for you a little.
00:51:05
matt
Yeah, yeah. well well We'll give you something. Just send us a fucking email. Anyway, thanks for listening.
00:51:10
Conor Fowler
ah That's ominous.
00:51:14
Conor Fowler
Bye-bye.