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Life After Divorce Is an Identity Death (A Man’s Perspective)
2 Playsin 7 hours
In this episode, I sit down with my first-ever guest, Kade, for an honest, grounded conversation about what divorce actually feels like — this time with a man’s perspective.
I met Kade while wandering the wild mess of life in Nashville, at a time when we had both recently moved there after our divorces, trying to rebuild and rediscover who we were, even as we were still running from some hard truths we weren't yet ready to see.
Together, we talk about the parts of divorce no one really prepares you for, including:
- the identity loss that comes after marriage ends
- grieving the future you thought you were going to have
- why healing isn’t linear and why “rock bottom” can happen more than once
- dating after divorce and why it feels different the second time around
- the pressure to “get it right” next time — and the fear of doing it all again
- why some healing can only happen once you’re back in a relationship
This episode is for anyone navigating life after divorce and learning how to rebuild — without rushing the process or abandoning themselves.
This aims to remind you, you're not alone in this feeling, and the season may end, but the game isn’t over.
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- Website: www.wanderingthewildmess.com
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Transcript
Intro
00:00:36
Speaker
Divorce isn't an ending or just an ending. and What a lot of people don't tell you is it's really an identity death.
00:00:48
Speaker
Welcome to Wandering the Wild Mess with Heather Morgan. I am so happy you're here. Hi, y'all. I have some igite exciting news for you on this episode, and i cannot wait for you to hear that i have my first guest today. So I'm really excited, and it was important for me to bring in a perspective that I feel like is really important to share since a lot of this podcast is about starting over and trusting your path no how matter how messy it looks. And my perspective has been, as you know, if you've listened along about my divorce journey and starting over and how that felt like. But I know a lot of my listeners, and I'm so grateful for you, are men. And i have heard from a lot of you that you appreciate my perspective, but I also thought it would be great to kind of hear the the man side of what no one tells you about divorce. And so whether you've been through a divorce yourself or you have someone in your life, whether it was your parents or a friend or family or people, and you just don't really get what they're going through,
00:02:02
Speaker
or you are the person and other people just don't really get what you're going through. This episode is for you to feel less alone or to better understand what people deal with when they're going through divorce. And it's more than just paperwork and heartbreak. It's really...
00:02:20
Speaker
a change of identity, you're grieving so much, and it's a complete rebuild. It's a shock to your nervous system that you could have never anticipated, and it's the gift that keeps on giving, to be honest. Coming up today, ironically or not, um this episode, my first guest, and I can't wait to introduce him. ah Three years when I'm recording this is is since my divorce, and you kinda don't think a date like that will be so impactful three years later.
00:02:49
Speaker
And it really takes you down another a place in your mind when you when those anniversaries come up. And so I hope this episode just brings you maybe something you need to hear here or a little bit more empathy or understanding about what people are going through um after everything they thought they knew changes. So I'm going to introduce Cade.
00:03:16
Speaker
um And Cade, we met, like you tell us a little bit about yourself, but I met Cade literally and I feel like it was such a good fit for Cade because when I met him, I felt like we were it was about the same time I had just moved to Nashville. He was thinking about moving to Nashville and we'd both been divorced um recently. I felt like it was it was pretty recently at the time, right? I mean, I think...
00:03:41
Speaker
I think I signed my papers like July 20th and moved here November 10th. So it was within four or five months. and then Yeah. And that was me. Like I was January 30th and then I moved here like end of March. So it's kind of crazy. We're like, get divorced, move to Nashville. Yeah, pretty much. That was the idea. yeah But...
00:04:03
Speaker
Oof, what a time. It was a time. And I remember we were we were drinking and we ended up talking about our divorces. And the funny thing about that, and if you've been divorced, you know that when you, it's one of those things you just kind of bond with other people because you can't really talk to everyone about it. Right.
00:04:20
Speaker
Because they just, it's kind of like, oh man, because you just know, because before I got divorced, and tell me if this is true for you, you heard people got divorced and you're like, oh that sucks, man. Right. Literally, that's the end of it. You're like, cool. For me, I think I got like, I did such a backwards, like I got married so young that when I got divorced was like when everybody else was getting married. So I was like the first one. like And I mean, I don't even think until like, I'm thinking until this day, I don't think I've had a single friend go through like a close friend go through that yet. I mean, hopefully they don't have to. But yeah, I was alone on the hill. I mean, my dad had been through it. My mom, like they got divorced. Um, so that's kind of who I leaned on the most, I guess, cause they'd experienced it, but yeah, no one else around me. i was alone on the hill. Yeah. Starting life over at 27, 27.
00:05:10
Speaker
seven I did it backwards. I got married young and then i like lived my college years like in my late 20s. Very odd. Very odd. and And that's a good point too because I feel like even when I got divorced, i I luckily had like a work friend that had been divorced like fairly recently. So I really leaned on her and we became close we became close because of that. But I didn't have. Like we had all circles of friends. And so tell me about that. Like...
00:05:36
Speaker
part of why you wanted to move, like all of your friends are already married or they're getting married and you're doing like something totally different. Did it just feel like you didn't fit in in that space anymore? Well, I mean, so I was living about I was in Columbus, Ohio, and I grew up outside of Springfield, Ohio, is maybe 45 minutes away from Columbus. That's where I was living at the time with my ex-wife. And so she up and left the Florida like 30 days later.
00:06:01
Speaker
um i was like, this is how so it's funny now because it's over. But like at the time, like I was 27. I was at Ohio State for a couple of years when i got out of the military. So I had a lot of young college friends.
00:06:14
Speaker
So I was like staying on my buddies, my two college roommates, couches, like couch on campus, like in the hood, And then I moved in with ah one of my friends from like the Ohio State tailgate, ah my friend Megan, and then another random dude. And they were all like 21, 22. And here I'm like 27, fresh off divorce. They're like just graduated college, living on campus. And after a few months of that, I was like, dude, I got to get the hell out of here. Like this just isn't working. And
00:06:45
Speaker
i had been I came to Nashville a couple times. I came in like June, like even before it happened. I was like, okay. Because I was doing the music thing like at home. and So then when I came back, I think I came for a fight in August. That weekend was the last time ever saw my ex-wife. I came to Nashville. It's kind of a cool story. I came to Nashville, did this whole audition thing, was like, all right, I'm moving here.
00:07:08
Speaker
Like, the hell with Ohio. I'm coming down here. And so then I drove back. after that weekend trip with my boys, saw my ex-wife, my dogs for the last time, came back down for like a music thing and then that was it. And that was like the the moment was that day where it all kind of, everything changed. did you Have you seen her again? Cause I feel like let's kind of like that thing, I think when you say i do to someone, you think they're gonna be your whole life yeah and it's not even about them. And then one day you're like, yeah, I just never saw him again. Cause I remember the last time I saw my ex-husband and he were like exchanging ah registrations for, he had the truck and I had the BMW, like anyways, and he wouldn't even look me in the eye and that was the last time and I'd never seen him again. And you're like, I literally planned, envisioned in my head
00:07:54
Speaker
like the old porch swing thing with you. And now I just, it's like, you don't even exist. Like not that you don't exist, but you know what i mean? Yeah. I mean, i I told people, I said, it's like, it's almost as if this is how I felt in the moment. And this is pretty morbid, but like,
00:08:12
Speaker
I felt like I would have rather her been dead than having to go on knowing. Now, that was at the time. I don't feel that way anymore. But it would have been easier. Not from you. Not you doing that. Just saying if she would have been widowed. It would have been easier to process she had passed away than having to go on knowing she was out there. Now, that's changed since then. At this point, it's no harm, no foul. I don't care. But that's how I felt at the time. And it was like...
00:08:39
Speaker
My situation was so unique because there wasn't it wasn't bitter at first. like Me and my ex-wife, this is my favorite story. This is funny. Our anniversary, our eighth anniversary was on July 18th. We got divorced on July 21st. We went to our anniversary dinner that week. to Together. And so it was cool, yeah, because we were going to be friends and like stay in touch. and like you know It was cool for a while, and then it kind of got...
00:09:04
Speaker
shitty. I think that is kind of part of the journey for some people that I've never been divorced. The weird part about it is that because that was the same moment I realized that my ex-husband one time during the separation, he's like, our neighbors were moving the house we had back in Utah. And he was like, well, how much is the house for sale? Maybe I'll just move over there and you and I could still be like friends. And we, cause you kind of, because no matter if it's not working out or not, like you literally did a lot of pivotal years. That's your, that's your, that's your ride or die.
00:09:32
Speaker
Yeah. it's it So it's like, exactly. So not only are you losing, like, you're not married anymore. You're not a husband. and You're not a wife. You're not living with them. You don't have like a roommate, even if it was that's who they are. You literally don't have your best friend. yeah And people don't get that. Like, even though they were your best friend, it doesn't mean you want to be married to them, but they were still the role of the best friend for a lot of people. I'm not saying everyone has that in their experience. No, that's how it was for me. I mean, that was my, like,
00:10:00
Speaker
And like I said, that's all. I got married so young. You know some people, like, they don't get married until their mid-20s or 30s, so they have that time as an adult to themselves. I didn't have that. It was straight military get married. So she was the only thing I knew.
00:10:12
Speaker
And, I mean, I know we're going to get into it later, but you want to talk about identity crashing. Yes. And I realized I was pretty codependent, too, um which I never realized before, and then which is kind of why i did it because I was like, i I relied on this girl. And, like, I left her.
00:10:27
Speaker
So that that's a thing too, like you did the same thing. And so that's where, you know, I don't know how it is to be the other way around. I'm sure that's probably worse because at least I made the decision and I kind of had to live with it.
00:10:40
Speaker
um But yeah. Yeah, and I think that's a good... So let's kind of unpack that a little bit. Like, why do you why did you, as um as the man in the relationship... Because i think what i've I think a lot of my listeners and people that have said is that usually a one like ah a man leaves more when... And I think it's this is statistically, too, from what I've read, when he already has someone next, right? Because he's ready for... And sometimes women will just leave regardless. I think in general, though, a lot of people...
00:11:10
Speaker
I see why people don't leave a marriage until they have someone else now that I've been doing it alone. Yeah. Because it's hard, oh yeah you know, um to process by yourself. But what made you make the decision to jump out of your comfort zone, like leave everything you ever knew? Like, what was it? What was the final straw that you're like, I just can't?
00:11:29
Speaker
Well, ah God, that's so deep. um I mean, I think that's almost like your whole life leads My whole life led up to that. And always tell people now, if I could go back and do it differently and maybe put a little more, not that I'm saying we have worked out because I think especially now that I've turned into who I am and kind of found myself, I don't think we would work together. I just don't. Like, I don't think she would like who I am now. Um, not that I became a bad person. I just, that I wouldn't, I wouldn't be, I was already a lot for her to handle based on my upbringing. And then I kind of just became that person because that's who I am. That's where I came from. And she wouldn't like that. So, uh, I, so what had happened is I was in school, uh, at Ohio state to be a, this is so funny. Cause look where I'm at now, it's like, how the hell did this happen? But I was in school and,
00:12:19
Speaker
the winter, early winter, spring, like of 2023 at Ohio state, living in Columbus. We got out of the military at 2020, moved back to Ohio state or move back to Ohio to Columbus. Been there like three years. I've been in school three years to be an education teacher to like teach PE, which I was great. You know me. That's crazy. That's a crazy thing. um And so she came home one day and was, this is funny because where I'm going tonight, but she came home one day and was like, Hey, I don't want to live here anymore.
00:12:48
Speaker
like crying bawling her eyes out after work I she hated the cold um it was this whole thing and was just like we have to go somewhere else and I'm like oh okay and I'm like well this is like my wife like okay like let's do that like I don't know what what we're gonna do I'm literally in the middle of this thing but I guess we'll figure it out and I started like looking up. ah She gave me like four places. It was like Vegas, Florida, I think Nashville, but I wasn't ready for that, which is funny because I ended up moving there anyways, but I just didn't think I was ready for that yet, and it definitely would not have worked if she came with me. It would have been a nightmare. um And then like Phoenix or something, um and I was like, well, I love Vegas. I'm going to Vegas tonight by myself. That's how much I love Vegas. That's my favorite place in the world. so I was like, okay, well, we can do that.
00:13:36
Speaker
And then I started looking and was like, teachers don't make anything in Vegas. That's like the worst school system in the country. They make like $40,000 a year. It's bad. So was like, well, that ain't going to work.
00:13:47
Speaker
And i was like, well, what can I do? Like there's casinos everywhere I can go work in a casino. So I just happened to get on Indeed and the Columbus casino was hiring pit bosses off the street, which doesn't happen. So I applied for it, get the job, drop out of school.
00:14:01
Speaker
um And the plan was I'm gonna do this for a year and a half and get some experience then we're gonna move out there. And I told her, cause I was working night shifts like 8 p.m. to 4.30 weekends, I wasn't home much. And I remember telling in the beginning like, hey, this is gonna be tough. We gotta make sure this doesn't this doesn't unravel us because it it will. It's like the highest divorce rate career outside of like maybe being like a doctor or nurse, it's up there with that or like a pilot or something because you're always going, you're going at night on the weekends.
00:14:32
Speaker
And that's exactly what happened. I did it for about 90 days. got so that's all it I started that job in February. I left her May 3rd. So you felt like it all just started. like it It wasn't stable enough to like ah deal with any change. I had a moment one night. that It was impulsive. The decision in the moment was impulsive because it's not something that I gave a whole lot of thought to beforehand. i mean I had wanted to leave her early in the relationship.
00:14:58
Speaker
Like the first year in because we were young and like it wasn't – I just – I didn't want to be there. It's lot. didn't. I stuck with it. But that was where I was like – I just was at work one night. I had started to feel like um I want to be on my own.
00:15:13
Speaker
i don't know if I want to move out there and be miserable in Vegas and have kids with this woman and then just that be my life. And so you started like, do you feel like in the relationship, it wasn't premeditated? Cause I would say that was mine. When I i said it to my ex-husband, it was really like, I just came over me. Yeah. It was at a night after work. I so i was, but I walked out of the casino. started tears.
00:15:36
Speaker
I said, okay, this is it. And I waited for her to stay up. it was It was awful. Like going back, it it was a terrible thing. Like I waited for her to wake up, went in and said, Hey, I think it's time. which do you so let's kind of talk about that because i feel like that's that's like let's and i and i got some questions i know y'all look at me i am and i'm like prepared um so okay so after you finally like said it what do you what initially like surprised you in the process like obviously maybe you were surprised by oh well we're just cool and we're just friends for a minute because that was ebbing flowing but what
00:16:11
Speaker
during while you're going through it like what were you kind of surprised by like what were you like this is not what i thought it was gonna be was it all of it was it well i think you're in such a uh shock that the initial couple days are like it's just it's not real yet and so you're just like whatever and like i said this is my decision Now, but also if I was to go back and like the head space that I was in and where I was at mentally, it was not healthy. I mean, I was, I was unhealthy, like in all ways, spiritually, mentally, physically, just, I was depressed. And so, but I didn't know how to process it, you know? And I i think I blamed a lot of it on her on her and you know, I'm not, she wasn't perfect, but I could have solved a lot of that stuff myself. So I think in the moment I was like, all right, let's go.
00:17:03
Speaker
Like, like, It's almost like it feels easier than trying to like unpack all the damage. Like it feels Yeah, you can't do it in the moment and immediately. Yeah. It hurts like hell. I mean, I remember like a good month, you know, I'm up every night crying and you go back and forth. Like you have that. Like for me, it was like one minute. I would be like, okay, I made the right decision. This was the right thing to do. This is why x y and Z. And I was being rational. And then the next night,
00:17:33
Speaker
oh my God, did I make the right choice? I'm at Dell. I can't i can't reverse this. I can't put it back in the box. like it's It's done. And then you have that, don't know if buyer's remorse is the word, but like you start to have that regret. And so then it just ebbs and flows yeah until eventually you're just like, which I don't know when it happened for me, probably when I moved here where I was just like, okay, like this...
00:17:55
Speaker
And I think that's why you kind of, I think that's why people move a lot. Like even when I met you and I, I knew why someone would want to move. I remember going back home early on after the divorce and I thought, and I was driving around just seeing the area and I thought, how do people, because both of you and I didn't have kids, you know, and i and and so I can't speak to that would only be even more of a layer that I can't even imagine because And I just feel for the kids because not because of the divorce, because I think two people that are happier on their own are better personally. um Not that I'm advocating for divorce, but the the back and forth that the parents are going through both mentally and the kids having to witness it. That would be very difficult because I feel like you're right. Like one day i was doing the same like.
00:18:41
Speaker
Like, oh, I made the right choice. I know this could never work. There's no going back. And then other days, I literally pulled into our driveway and I'm like, I just want my life back. right I want my old life back. oh that There's a lot of that. There's a lot of that.
00:18:54
Speaker
I mean, are like, that that was a time I remember, like, moving up down here and being, like, having some of those nights going home and thinking, like, You know, because you remember how it was. i mean when when I mean, we were all out. Like, we had that little crew, and we got here with all of our friends, and it was every single night. i don't Sometimes I look back on that time, and I definitely want to share more with my audience on because I've evolved so much since this Wandering the Wild mess started. And I'm like, I don't even know how me as a grown woman was out. Same.
00:19:25
Speaker
You know, like just, but I think it's literally you're, you're in this like limbo, yeah like middle stage what it is where you're like, I don't know who I am anymore. I'm trying to just kind of numb all the feelings that are coming up. I'm distracting myself with things to do and like fun, lighthearted environments.
00:19:46
Speaker
And, i It's just it ends up being a phase, I think, for people in divorce. I mean, I'm sure some people stay in it and some people never yeah go there. Well, that was my thing. And that was what I told myself, too, because like I think that that coming down here and doing all that, although it was hell on me physically and it I caused myself a lot of pain and like.
00:20:08
Speaker
I could have got further quicker and got started over faster had I not done that. But I don't beat myself up because, it you know, it was what it was at the time. But I think if I don't do that, I don't come out on the other side like I am now. I think I just kind of needed it. so enough Because I never fully went off the rails. You know, I never developed a crazy drinking problem. I never got into drugs. Like, I stayed pretty, you know, even when I came to Nashville, like I was one of the tame people. Like I kind of looked around like, God, these people are crazy. Like I don't, I don't, i don't want to do all this. I feel like that's the funny thing about Nashville. I feel like I never got that full into because I feel like people just don't all ask me like or something, make an assumption. But I mean, it definitely, I am thankful it didn't get me down like crazy paths, but it was crazy for me, you know, crazy for who I had been the whole time.
00:21:00
Speaker
in my life back home. It was like two like two different people. And so let's talk about the identity. Like how did you adjust with like your friends, people that knew you Because I remember like my friends one time when I was going through the divorce and I taught had an episode I talked about this, that I brought something up. We were all going out and I had just done mediation and I was just, it it it was hard to be on this. We were on like a Zoom call together and he was mad at me and I was just,
00:21:26
Speaker
going through it and I had brought it up because it was just on my mind. We'd been drinking some wine in a concert. My friend's like, I don't really have the capacity for that. Like, I don't really want to be talking, you know, like because she couldn't understand. i don't blame her now, whatever. But it was hard to not have people to talk to about it. And like you said, you didn't have...
00:21:46
Speaker
you know, your, your guys back home, like they were all younger, never married or just getting married. So like, how did you, besides your parents, like how did you hold that all on yourself? Like, how did you process it? You know, like how did you, i think there's like a,
00:22:04
Speaker
sometimes like the way, the way that, uh, I guess it worked for me. it was like,
00:22:14
Speaker
I basically just told myself, like, okay, I understood. i didn't have a whole lot of regret, like, ever.
00:22:26
Speaker
um I do – the only thing I regret is the way I went about it. I could have went about it that was easier on her because the way I did it was just – it was awful, like, just out of nowhere, no conversation. Like,
00:22:36
Speaker
Just boom, which I don't know. There's not a good way to do it. No, there's not. it was just like the timing of it, the way I did it. I could have done that. But as far as like did I – I never regretted it. So I think the one thing that I told myself is like, okay, like you you did this.
00:22:52
Speaker
You got this thing that you wanted and you're going to go live this life. Go live it. Like don't – you can't go back and be that thing that you were before.
00:23:03
Speaker
And if you don't come out of this a better person, a better man, a better friend, a better, you know, potential father or husband again, then it's like, then you failed yourself and you failed her, you know, because like, I want her to go on and have success. And, you know, hopefully she grew from it. I don't know, but yeah I know i I did. And so the identity thing was like,
00:23:27
Speaker
Okay, we've stripped everything away. There's nowhere, like you said, there's no one to lean on. now So then what do i have to do? Well, I have to lean on myself. and decide who you are. I think that's a big one. There's one positive is you kind of get a clean slate to rebuild your life and just really define who you are. For me, that was delayed, though. Like, it didn't happen immediately. Oh, same. Same. And I feel like, same.
00:23:50
Speaker
That's why the people that go into just right after a relationship, they kind of get to keep some identity pieces because they're, like, being a partner, and then maybe they get another group of friends. Like, my biggest thing was we just had this, like...
00:24:03
Speaker
tight knit group of friends. yeah And then I lost and I moved, so I would have, but it was like, I knew it wouldn't have been the same even if I stayed because my life was different. right And so it's like you lose your core group of friends or at least the same way. It doesn't feel the same because now you're on your own. yeah and then you lose like you're not a husband or a wife. you're Even the way people view you when you're like married, I feel like it's like you seem, I realized this later, like you feel like you're a little more put together. Like when you got to say, i have a wife or a husband, people look at you like for sure differently.
00:24:39
Speaker
right And then when you're not anymore, it's like, what are you? And then you're kind of like, then you start thinking about like, that's where I threw myself into work. It's like, okay, then I'm this corporate girl because I needed some title yeah to cling on to because I didn't know who I was anymore. For me, it was the Nashville thing.
00:24:58
Speaker
It was like, come here and like try to play Morgan Wallen and and be this, you know, hot shot. So you're like, that would be my new identity. Yeah. then And then, and I realized that,
00:25:11
Speaker
really quick that that well, I don't know. it wasn't really quick. It probably took me a year yeah or so before i was like dog like I mean, I gained some stuff from being that. my confidence went through the roof and it stayed. Yeah. Because I didn't have, I had it before, but it was false. It wasn't built on my, it was just like a almost arrogance. And so then now it's it's real. I feel like, you know, i'm I'm generally a confident person, but I had to rebuild it three times since because I've got my ass handed to me by women. That was the thing that surprised me. Is dating again? Oh my Lord is like, I thought like i thought my wife was like, or my ex-wife was like,
00:25:49
Speaker
annoying or like maybe a little mentally off or not unstable, but like had some issues. And then I started interacting with some of these girls. like I was like, oh my, she was an angel compared to this. I mean, women all with- So the grass ain't necessarily greener. Yeah, I think that's a good call out. I think sometimes because this is never like to advocate for divorce, but help people that are navigating it. But I think that is a very true thing because I realized that even with my ex-husband, like there, he was a very loyal man. man And now I have like single friends and they're out. I know that I had that one boyfriend I had cheated on me. I'm like, what? And then he tries to get back with me. I'm like, no, I had a, I had a husband that would have never done such a thing. You think I'm downgrading to someone that disrespect me like that? Never. yeah and and But I didn't realize that either. i feel And I'm not saying there's not, there's probably a lot of, i think the hard part, Cade, sometimes, not the hard part, but the truth is that everybody's just got issues. yeah And unless they really deal with them, but when you're in the worst space, and this is what I've noticed, you attract who you are. oh So you were still in that toxic mentality. So it's not,
00:26:59
Speaker
Because when a man tells me that he oh had, and I don't want to say crazy, but like those kind of girls, that tells me something about the man. Right. To be honest. Yeah. Because, and that ex-boyfriend actually said that. So I should have known, but I wasn't in the right place. Because I feel like sometimes you think when you're attracting these, why am I attracting these people? Yep.
00:27:18
Speaker
that I didn't know existed because you're yeah that person. Yeah, God's trying to teach you the lesson. He's going to send it to you over going to over and over and be like, are you going to accept that behavior? Are you going to level up your own? So that just isn't even, you wouldn't even let them in. Right. Because there's probably things about even those women that you're like looking back, oh you knew out the jump. Yeah, immediately. But you surpassed it because you needed the ego boost, you needed the validation, whatever. you're You're so lonely that you're i'm not saying i lost values or that i i didn't have standards but you're just so du like just ripped up that that it goes out the window like you're like ah yeah i mean yeah i'm not going to get into details because i don't want to give yeah that's some of these girls like yeah in the time of day but um there yeah there was a couple looking back where i'm just like dude like
00:28:17
Speaker
that that's not I'm like, why did we tolerate that? Now it was a good thing I did because it forced me into a place where i've I, I didn't hit rock bottom until a year and a half after.
00:28:28
Speaker
Like true rock bottom. I thought I'd hit it. And then I really hit it. That's another piece about, I think, for people on the divorce journey. Like you you kind of think you're like at the lowest point. And then you get to another low point and another. And like even today on three years, I was like literally crashing out, spiraling on the drive. Like just thinking about how much farther along I wanted to be by now. It's already three years. I should have all these things together because you put...
00:28:54
Speaker
Especially as the lever, that is one thing. Because you made a decision. right Well, you should have made it the decision to have a better life. And then you start going, okay, well, I'm three years out. Is your life what you thought it should be?
00:29:05
Speaker
And you kind of and i know I want to be that girl that's beating up myself. I mean, and we both know when you're on that journey of like understanding life, you know that it doesn't do you any good to beat yourself up. But it's hard not to judge the past version of you. Yeah.
00:29:21
Speaker
for things that it did. yeah and I, I realized you kind of have to just say like, Hey, I did the best I could with the version of me that I was at that time. That the, yeah, that's it. That's it. That's the thing. I mean, that's the one thing that I came out of this with like,
00:29:37
Speaker
the self-acceptance and not in a, oh, I'm a perfect person. I've never done anything wrong. But like, yeah, I did these things. I can't do anything about them.
00:29:49
Speaker
I own them. I don't beat myself up for it. understand the headspace that I was in in that moment. When I when i walked out, I was unhealthy, you know, yeah and and I wasn't. and that so But if I don't do that, then I don't get here to the place where I'm – I mean, and I still deal with stuff. It's not like it all just goes away. It's harder now, I think, being in a relationship than it was then.
00:30:15
Speaker
Because once everything can go wrong, you know, and I was married before it was like, that's all I knew. And so, yeah, i mean, we had issues, but like we've rocked together for years and years and years. So you just knew like, all right, this is my, this is my dog. Like we're going to figure this out now. It's,
00:30:31
Speaker
you know It's difficult because you're starting over. you you know There's just things that that bother you or that you just have these triggers that come from that. That's a good point too. So I was going to ask about like dating after divorce because i i haven't i didn't I don't think I've done an episode or I'm probably going to talk about this, but I i didn't date i didn't go on one single date all last year. Not really. ah And that wasn't like I didn't set it up intentionally. i just was just busy and I didn't, you know, I just didn't.
00:31:04
Speaker
um And I'm a lot and I when I say I'm a lot more picky, it's like not like picky about like, oh, they got a this checklist. I mean, obviously, I have things that I have qualities that I would obviously want in a partner. But it was just more like to your point, like,
00:31:20
Speaker
it's it It's another... i don't really want to waste my time and energy unless I see it really going somewhere. And so that's different. like Casually dating after you've already been married, I feel like feels a little foreign yeah because you're like, I did a life with someone. yeah I don't really just want to like...
00:31:38
Speaker
talk about my favorite color. Like you said, like you had a ride or die, this person. And now I just got to go back to like, oh, where did you grow up? You know? And it's just, it just, it's exhausting. It just feels different. And, and I think trusting someone when you've known someone for so long, cause I met my ex-husband when I was 21 and we had a whole bunch of mutual friends that all knew each other. So like, then, you know, oh yeah, he's a good guy. Like everybody knows him or he, you know, you're meeting people that you might know not know that many people they know or not for very long. yeah It's totally different. So like, did you, it is did you think, have you thought now, because I felt, and I want to hear your perspective, when I got divorced, I was like, I'm never getting married again.
00:32:19
Speaker
At the beginning. yeah Now I'm at a spot where I'm like, it's not like I'm like, oh, I want to get married tomorrow. But I feel like if am anyone that I would entertain long enough to date for like a year, i would probably see myself having some potential in marrying them because I wouldn't want to spend my time with someone I couldn't see that with. Like, how do you view marriage compared to before when you got married and you were like, I'm young, I'm just doing this. And probably the military added to that right pressure. Yeah, because I wouldn't have done it if that wasn't the case. yeah the That relationship would have ended fairly soon after that if we didn't get married. Yeah. um
00:32:54
Speaker
As far as the getting married again,
00:32:59
Speaker
i don't necessarily remember what my initial thought was. Probably didn't even think about it Yeah, I mean, you're so like, why would I even want to think of that right Yeah, I was just like, I'm never getting married again. No, I didn't ever have that...
00:33:13
Speaker
The one thing that, and this is easier said than done, but the one thing that I told myself, you know, in the first couple months is like, don't let this make you jaded because that's not who you are.
00:33:30
Speaker
Like, and so I did that. The problem was, is that I should have been a little jaded.
00:33:41
Speaker
Because I was giving too much grace. Because I had told myself, we don't want to we don't want to take the things from this relationship and project it on the next one or the next girl. And it's like, yeah, that's fine if you find somebody who's like actually a decent person and is like like, okay, then that applies. But I had took it and done like, no, we're just going to give every girl we meet the benefit of the doubt because we don't want – and it's like – and that's how I got my – just wrecked. But I think, no, I didn't have a negative aspect. I i mean, I remember telling like – thinking like maybe within the year –
00:34:15
Speaker
I said after the divorce. Yeah, they're like thinking like, if I get a chance to do this again, I'm going to do it right. and um ah And all the stuff that I did, I was too stupid and dumb at 21 to know any better. Because I wasn't a perfect husband to my ex-wife. I mean, I was no saint. yeah And I'll admit that it's in my book. Like I was mean, I was angry, I was irritable, I would fly off the handle, I would yell. I mean, I've never been like physical or anything like that. But like, I was a little manipulative, like there was stuff that I did that, you know, I'm not excusing it based on the way I grew up and what I seen in the house and how my parents were in the dynamic and they were divorced. And like my mom had a bunch of awful relationships. So that's just kind of what I knew. um
00:34:54
Speaker
But I wasn't perfect by any means. And so that was my one thing is like, if we get a chance to do this again, which we probably will, hopefully, um we have to be what we couldn't be. And like, and it's almost, I almost looked at it like that's risk that's a respect to her.
00:35:13
Speaker
that That it wasn't nothing. taught me all these, like that it wasn't for nothing. And yeah, it sucks because it's like, well, I'm sure if we could go back, she'd love to just get me now and we have these, but that's not the way it plays out. yeah So it's almost like she had to deal with that you know and go through all that.
00:35:30
Speaker
So when you get this opportunity again, Do it the right way. And that's not that I'm not – I've been in a relationship, like, with this girl right now for a few months, um and that's the longest – like, the this is my first actual girlfriend since, um outside of like, maybe seeing a girl for, like, a few weeks. And and that's good. And it's tough. No. But it's been two years, you know. Well, over two years. That's another thing I want to bring up that I think people that are going through divorce, if they've been in relationship since or not, like you, I've done a lot of healing and like you have too. You do a lot of healing on your own and you can do a lot of healing in isolation. But the, and I think this is the scary part of me thinking about getting a relationship and now you're experiencing is that there's some things you can't heal on your own.
00:36:16
Speaker
So until you even know they're there, then you don't realize like how much of it affect you. Like there's little triggers that come up because I did experience that for a minute with that boyfriend where I was like, why am I feeling this way? And I knew it was like things that I didn't process, but I didn't realize because they weren't dealing with it. i wasn't dealing with it. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like, it's this, this like double edged sword because you kind of have to get back in a relationship to finally heal all of it to be like, here, and now I know how to be a partner again. Because you're almost like learning to be a partner again with a whole new set of, i wouldn't call them rules, but your whole perspective has changed. But now you have this pressure and I don't know, I wanna hear from you if you feel this.
00:37:04
Speaker
I cannot, and I don't wanna put this pressure on myself, but I cannot imagine going through a divorce again. Like I, you know, the people are like, oh, two or three or four and you're like, what? And so for me, it's like,
00:37:17
Speaker
The pressure to want to get it right yeah the next time is like overwhelmingly a lot for me. yeah like do you feel and i and i i Do you feel like that as a man? I feel like there's more men I know that have been married multiple times than women, yeah but I think it goes both ways. like Do you feel like it's like next time or never? you're just like, I'm just going to roll with whatever happened? Well, I think the next time...
00:37:41
Speaker
um you know, if when that happens, I think that one will be more won't say the first one wasn't impactful, but the time that it will occur will have a hell of a lot more of an effect.
00:37:54
Speaker
Like, I thought – I mean, i don't know about you, but I remember when I was 18 thinking like, oh, my gosh, when I'm 25, I'm going to be so old and my life is over. Yeah. And then you get 25 and you're like, I've still done nothing and, like, I'm still young. I feel good. And so I remember thinking like, oh, man, like, I'm getting divorced at 27. That's not that crazy. No. You know? And so I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm starting over. This is so awful. And now in hindsight, it's like, no, that was actually probably the best time. Because if I would have waited any longer, it would have made the last couple – let What I did in the last couple of years would have been less less acceptable. And it it gives me more of an opportunity to, I don't have to rush. Yeah. If if you were to get divorced at 40 or mid-30s or 50 or whatever, then it's like,
00:38:40
Speaker
especially as a woman, you're i mean that's so that's scary. though that's all light enough That was me. I felt like I remember being like, ah like I can't like be divorced. And there was a moment I remember telling my therapist, like who's even gonna want me? And that sounds so sad to say about myself because Um, like that is just so unkind, but you feel that way, but not like, you know, you're worthy of it. But I think society like really does a good job at like, especially for women making it feel like there's just like this expiration date because we already feel that way. Like, I mean, I have friends that are like, and I'm going to have another guest. Well, I won't pee, but but, um, she's coming up to 30 and like,
00:39:24
Speaker
yeah was divorced and she's like oh my gosh like I should have been now I'm turning you know and it's like this big age and and we do that and then you get there and you're like oh like it's not really what we and people don't care like that was the one thing that I thought is like I think for men, it's a little different. Yeah, they do. But I just thought that like most women, when i I was always scared to tell them I was divorced, but i've every girl that I've ever told that, they've never cared. I'm not saying it didn't like maybe bother them a little bit, but like ah my girl now, like she's young. Like she's significantly younger than me. She's like never been married, like been in a couple relationships.
00:40:06
Speaker
And i mean, I'm sure she doesn't love it, but it wasn't like... the end of the world see and I never really thought like weirdly for me and I have had friends like the the friend that I was talking about I remember she told me she went on a date and then when he found out she was divorced he was like over it. i haven't personally experienced that. yeah um and I actually haven't had any ah like men feel like that was like, um, I don't think so. i honestly, I think, and, ah and I'm like older than her, I think too, uh, by my age, if you're, haven't been married, I think men for whatever reason feel, ah differently. yeah You know what and i mean? um then, and not that that's right. I'm just saying, yeah i think for them, they're kind of like, Oh, well, I mean, you were married. Like, that's how I felt is like, and I'm not saying this is right, but that was where I was like, well, if,
00:40:59
Speaker
I think like, is that why you went younger than after the divorce? So you didn't have to. Well, yeah, I mean, that's part of it. And too, because if, you know, I'm not saying I'm not ready to have kids or like have if like I am now, you know, like um if it happened, I'd be all right. Two years ago, I would not have been so like, you know, I'm going to 30 in 45 days. So things have changed a little bit, but.
00:41:21
Speaker
Yeah, I felt like if I meet a girl that's closer to my age or older than me, she's going to be ready immediately, especially if she hasn't already been married. And so I was like...
00:41:34
Speaker
I got to know, like, I feel like if a girl's a little younger than me, well, number one, she's going want some time. Yeah. You know, because I didn't have kids. dogs I didn't have kids.
00:41:45
Speaker
And I got divorced at 20. So I was married. You know, we were going to have kids at like 28, 29. That was our plan. Right. So like if you be girl a little younger, you got a little time to get to know her and like make sure. Because I feel like if you're 30 and you meet someone who's 30, especially when it comes to kids, the truth is I'm not running out of time. but women are. And so I was just like, I don't want to be rushed into something because someone's closer to my age. Because if I have a kid at 40, it's not, I don't care. Like it's not, I'm going to be more mature and grown and like understand the world better. The older I get, like that's how it's happened for me. Every year that I age, the smarter I get, the more wisdom I have, the more calmer, the more diplomatic I get. So like,
00:42:31
Speaker
I think the longer that I wait, the better off. I mean, yeah, you don know, like we don't have kids when you're 70. I don't care. Like I've lived a hell of a life. Well, Kate, I know a lot of women that are having kids late, but I hear you. I mean, I feel like you do definitely, there's a difference when you get divorced because usually when you get divorced, you got married decently younger um and known the person for a long time. And then you're right. When you get divorced, it's like this random population of people that are either just getting married, also getting divorced, might already have kids. nope might be right, like wanting kids out the gym, might never want kids now. Like it's a whole different. So I feel like you do have to make um it. i mean, it it just complicates the dating pool because you don't you didn't think about all of those things so much when you first picked your partner. Right. Right. Like I feel like especially young, you're not seeing the world through the lens that it you do now. Yeah. I also got really lucky at the age that it happened because
00:43:32
Speaker
I feel like as a man in your mid to late twenties, even early thirties, that's your prime dating window because you can date down and you can like your window of like age range is the biggest it will ever be. feel like that's the same for women though too. I feel like ah the time yeah i mean I didn't know that until i um until I was, I was like, Oh, but I feel like. I guess that's true. I feel like it. And i I mean, obviously everyone's like different on what their life. It's really about like what season of life you're in. Compatibility with season of life is like yeah um a big thing. So, okay. So going back to the divorce piece and like your emotions are youre going through. So now we're saying like it kind of takes a relationship to heal. But like what did you need in the early stages of the process? Like when you were healing that you wish you would have had.
00:44:24
Speaker
Like what what would have helped more would have been like as a man, did you feel like you couldn't show emotions with it? You couldn't feel angry, sad about it because no one got it. Like what did you what do you wish you could have had more of to help you manage that? Time to myself.
00:44:42
Speaker
I know that sounds a little weird, but I think I outsourced so much in the beginning. that if Because that's what it took in the end was a you know a phase of, it wasn't very long. I mean, it was like 90 days of basically just cutting myself off from the world, not going out, reading, journaling, there like all that.
00:45:04
Speaker
So I think if I would have done that earlier, i would have gotten out of it. So if you know if I could have went back and just immediately started dealing with it, um you know there's this like analogy about the Buffalo. i had a this is This is actually crazy, because I had a buddy that called me early last spring, one of my troops when i was in the military in New Mexico with, and ah I hadn't heard from him. I mean, we were good buddies, but sometimes you keep up. We'd text back and forth and he calls me one day.
00:45:34
Speaker
like what in the hell this dude like it he ain't called me in fucking for five years you know and uh I call him like hey John like what's up man he's like you know my my wife left me yesterday and I didn't know who else to call and uh that was where I was like Yeah, not not yes. Like, i'm I'm not excited, but I'm like, I can help because I did it. so and And I told him the analogy. I said, you know, if you if you know anything about buffaloes, when the storm comes, most the animals run from the storm and they stay in it longer. When the buffalo turns and runs head on into the storm because he knows that if he does that, it'll be over quicker. So that's what I wish I would have done is just faced it immediately. And then not the emotional healing would have happened faster. And I wouldn't have had to –
00:46:21
Speaker
I don't say ruin my life because where I'm sitting right now, like I'm okay, I'm doing pretty good, but I wouldn't have had to put myself through so much financial damage, emotional damage with other women and just depression and chaos if I have just said, you know what, let's let's go now.
00:46:39
Speaker
I ran away. i ran here. I mean, that's what I did. and I think and i I love that because I do feel I've thought about this before. I don't wish divorce on anyone that I know, but I know. Not my worst enemy.
00:46:50
Speaker
No. and And I think that's one thing I want people to realize in this episode. Like it people don't I literally think it was struggling just to even work and go through life. I quit my job.
00:47:01
Speaker
I mean, immediately because I couldn't sleep. Yeah. so like I couldn't I couldn't function for 60 days. Yeah, you're literally like it's your, I mean, I remember because you talked about the grief about it would have been easier. And my therapist said it is like grieving the loss of someone. And when I lost my dad, like I, it wasn't, I had to grieve that again because I lost my father-in-law in the divorce and I lost the masculine man, my husband, and then I didn't have a dad. So I just had no masculine energy in my presence. And it was, and I think as a woman, sometimes you don't realize and we're kind like, oh, we don't need no man, but there is such a difference of having that support. Yeah, if it's healthy support. it's healthy, yeah, yeah, for sure. And so it was like,
00:47:46
Speaker
trying to like wean myself off that. And I think that's the same for men. Like even if she brought this feminine lightness balance to your life, whether or not it was gonna work, you know, that now you're without. yeah And so now we're you're kind of like seeking that in other people that really don't have the connection, right but they're just filling that void. right And so it's like yeah whole loss of like, oh Yeah. yeah you And I feel like one thing that people don't know is that you don't know who you are. no So when they're saying, who I don't even know who they are anymore. Great. We don't know who we are anymore. like Because I felt like people were saying that after. You're doing things and it's so out of character. and I look back at even like videos I had recorded, what I was going through. um i was kind of sharing them like with my friends. And I'm like, I don't even know that girl. Right.
00:48:37
Speaker
and they didn't know her and i she didn't know her. You're just lost. You're just in it Yeah. Lost. Okay, so Kate- Lost is a good- good i Lost is a good. And I know we're like coming up to this is like a long one for you listeners. So um if, so kind of like you did with your friend, John, um what, so I know you kind of said if handling the divorce alone, it sounds like,
00:49:05
Speaker
Two things I want to end with, like, what would how would you how would you suggest they should deal with it? Like, obviously, maybe hitting a buddy up. I feel like that's huge if you know someone. And then if they feel someone, a man listening right now, because you know you grieve for a while. yeah Like, here we are. I'm three years. You're two and a half. yeah It's still coming up. So it's not a quick healing. um What would you say to a man that's, like, feeling grief, loss, ashamed, like he failed, all those things, and going through it right now? Like, what would you tell him? I have a great analogy for this. It's one of my favorite things that I've came up with.
00:49:40
Speaker
um I mean, it's not just divorce, but it helps. But first, what the first thing you asked? Oh, yeah, like if men do so they don't feel alone. Yeah, I mean, you definitely want to talk to people openly.
00:49:59
Speaker
you know If you're upset, like i'm a I'll cry front of people. I don't care. I'm not prideful. I'm not trying to prove anything. um So you want to have people around. Don't isolate. Not in the beginning. And that's what i that's so I said. I moved here. I had people around me every night. So I eventually just woke up one day and was a little better off.
00:50:15
Speaker
um I was running from it. There's some stuff I had to still deal with. But like the initial onslaught, I was able to get through fairly easily because I had so many people around me, whether it was just family calling on the phone or people here or just out at the bar, whatever. um I moved to Nashville. I was out every night. So it did saved me. And that's why I said, so you can't isolate.
00:50:34
Speaker
Um, at some point you're going to have to isolate, but you have to be ready for that. like I was ready for it when I did it and it didn't bother me. And I quit with the validation seeking and needing a girl in my phone. Like I stopped with that. And so it was just. It was easier, but at first I needed people. And the other analogy that I came up with, because my ah I was talking my buddy one night, this was when I moved back to Ohio, and you know we're sports guys, and ah he lost his dad when he was pretty young, like maybe 20, 21, and we were kind of talking. I had just broke up with this, or got broken up with this girl that I'd been seeing for a few weeks back home, and I was just like,
00:51:14
Speaker
I was just sick of dealing with it. Like, it just seems like I couldn't get anywhere with women or whatever. And I had this thing where I was like, you know, man, I was like, what? And especially with the marriage thing is like, you know, I just watched NBA finals and the Indiana Pacers go all the way to the NBA finals. They go to game seven, right? And they're 48 minutes away from winning a championship. and ah Tyrese Halliburton tears his ACL, like, or his Achilles three minutes the game, and that's it. That's their star player. So it's over. You know it's over, right? And I remember that look on his face, like, when he's sitting there on the ground, like,
00:51:52
Speaker
crying and I'm like that, that's what you feel. And so what I what i said, I said is like, what when you when you miss, if you lose the championship, if you get all the way there and you have that great team, what do you what do you miss? You don't miss what happened. You don't miss the season. You don't miss the practices. You don't miss the flights. You don't miss the the bus rides and the pregame and all that.
00:52:15
Speaker
You miss what life would have been like had you won that championship. But instead, you have to watch someone else celebrate it and someone else talk about it in 10 years down the line, and you know that you lost. And so that's what you're grieving.
00:52:26
Speaker
You're not grieving what happened or what you lost or all the memories. You're grieving what you're losing in the future. And that's that I think that was the hardest thing, and which sucks. and And I said, so that's when when you lose the Super Bowl, you don't care about the games and the great season. you You don't get to celebrate, and that guy does, and that eats you up. But you know what the good news is? Hmm.
00:52:48
Speaker
The good news is next week you get to get back in the gym and you have an off season and you get to go out there next season and compete for it again. And so that helped me. When I came up with that analogy on the spot, I was like – So now I just had this like, dude, I get to go do this again. Like whether it's with a friend or it's a next relationship or whatever, I get an opportunity to go out there, put my best foot forward, knowing what I know now, and put myself in the best position to win and take all the lessons away from that. But that season's over. I can't change it. I can't go back and play that game again. Like me and my wife, we got to the damn game seven, the NBA finals. We were right there.
00:53:30
Speaker
you know We were right there. you know, but it didn't work out. didn't So it's so an end, but not the end. Yeah. is kind of the I mean that's how, yeah. I mean, you get another season and I know whether it's a year or whatever, but as long as you come out of this thing thinking, okay, like this is going to sting for a minute, it's going to suck, but I get to lace my shoes up again and get back out there. And you have to have that mindset. You can't let, well, lost like, who cares? Like it's over, like yeah move forward and you, you might lose again next year.
00:53:56
Speaker
And I got my ass whipped for three seasons after, but now I feel like I can finally win. so and that' And that is so key that you said that. I love that you said that because I was talking to another guy about this and he was saying, we were talking about QBs, like, so if sports analogy, but just how for a quarterback, you just have to really have a short memory. Like you just threw an interception, now you're back on the field. You just have to like, and not that you just don't, you still have to feel your emotions, right? Because you have to move through them. yep So you can, he's on the ground crying. You still have to cry out. You still have to feel it. you got to turn him into the But then you got to be like, okay, but onto the next with not like, I don't have any respect for all of the progress I gained, all of the lessons, all the things. Let me just take that with me and win big the next time. And I think...
00:54:42
Speaker
That is kind of the way we have to see it. Like I'm going to be a better husband, a better wife the next time around, a better person. I'm going to not self-abandon because I think in young marriages or a marriage, sometimes you abandon yourself so many times, which makes it really hard to go and be alone anymore because you weren't taking care of yourself in the marriage.
00:55:03
Speaker
So now you're not only do you not have a partner to like lean on, You weren't even taking care of yourself then. Right. So self-leadership. Yeah, that's big. Because that's really what that is in the game. He just self-leadership. All right, I'm getting back up, getting back on the court next season. And and some people...
00:55:21
Speaker
That's the end. They lose that game and they never get back and that's the end of their career. But there's others. You know, like I know i always tie everything everything back to sports, but like Michael Jordan got his ass kicked by the Pistons his first six years in the league and then he whips off six in a row and is the greatest player ever. So I just, that sports stuff works for me. Like it's like whenever something like this happens, it's like, okay, but I'm going to get another chance.
00:55:42
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm going to be better and I'm going to be more prepared. I'm not starting over. I'm starting from what I've learned and experienced. So in anything, that is the biggest thing that kept me on the path. On the path. Is that knowing that like I get another chance in life, not ah not even necessarily with relationships. Yeah, in life. Yeah. Like – Unless I die tomorrow, I'm going to get to wake up and make an effort to do this thing again and get better. Do this thing again. love that.
00:56:09
Speaker
All right. Well, Cade, I appreciate you sharing your vulnerability um and your perspective from um a man dealing with divorce. And so I hope you guys can take something from this that feels, you know, I don't know, a little bit more...
00:56:26
Speaker
So that you feel less alone in dealing with it. Like I said, my heart goes back. This is like a time of year too that a lot of people get divorced like after the holidays. um So I know that this, if this helps you, I appreciate you um listening. Give it, rate the podcast. It really helps so that more people can get the podcast and find it and reach them and help them. Cause that's really what I talked to Kate about this. that I wanted to do, I want it to reach people that need to hear. Like you're not alone. You're going to get through it. You're going to get another game seven. You just have to get back on the court and start trading again. And and that's just yeah how it is. So um again, I'll end you with just saying that um you matter. yeah for sure
00:57:08
Speaker
So thank you for listening to Wandering the Wild Mess with Heather Morgan. You matter.