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Episode 24: Unpacking the Energy of Shame
5 Plays2 years ago
When did you last have a moment when you felt shame?
Shame is a feeling of embarrassment or humiliation that arises from the perception of having done something dishonorable, immoral, or improper. People who experience shame usually try to hide what they feel ashamed of.
Many of us carry shame from our childhood. Maybe we did something that embarrassed us, and when we think about it now, the shame resurfaces. As a child, Lili always felt ashamed because she was different. She is Asian and grew up in a Latino country. For Shannon, as a child, shame emaciated from her body. She never felt good enough because of the information she had gotten from other people.
In this episode, we’ll unpack our experiences with the energy of shame from our childhood to how we’ve been experiencing it in our adulthood and how we are dealing with it. We’ll also look at how we become perpetrators of shame and how to avoid it.
Listen in to learn a thing or two.
Key Talking Points of the Episode:
[00:25] What is shame?
[00:46] Shannon’s experience with the energy of shame
[08:05] Lili’s experience with shame
[11:51] How Shannon deals with shame
[26:49] Dealing with shame
[35:18] Recognizing shame in your body and space
Magical Quotes from the Episode:
“One of the underlying reasons that we feel shame is the fear of being judged by others, and judging ourselves.”
“I think if you look at shame as a punishment, then it’s heavy.”
“One of the things that I found helpful around whenever I’m feeling shame is to bring a little bit more self-acceptance.”
Note: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Shame and Personal Experiences
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Psychic Girls Next Door.
00:00:07
Speaker
We are your hosts, Shannon Miller and Lily Hiberino.
00:00:10
Speaker
This podcast is for all spirituality enthusiasts and psychics next door to share tools, experiences and spiritual practices that align with your highest vibrational self.
00:00:22
Speaker
in this episode we will be talking about and sharing our experiences with the energy of shame so the definition of shame shame is a feeling of embarrassment or humiliation that arises from the perception of having done something dishonorable immoral or improper people who experience shame usually try to hide the like what they feel ashamed of
00:00:48
Speaker
Um, so I thought that it would be a good episode to unpack to like the energy that comes with shame.
Perfectionism and Self-Care: The Shame Cycle
00:00:56
Speaker
Um, something that I've been dealing with probably my entire life or multiple lifetimes has been just like when you feel like you're get scolded.
00:01:07
Speaker
Like I somehow feel like I always, um,
00:01:12
Speaker
either work for people who scold me or, um, have, you know, I've had friends in the past or like, you know, parents or people who have like, um, you know, family members who have projected the energy of shame, uh,
00:01:30
Speaker
like whether it's like a situation or a belief that they have or something that's like in their space energetically.
00:01:40
Speaker
But there's clearly something that's matching that shame.
00:01:43
Speaker
Like, you know, I something in my space of like, I need to feel shame about this.
00:01:48
Speaker
So therefore, I will be shamed in that situation.
00:01:54
Speaker
So I've done a lot of meditation on just kind of the essence of when I feel really embarrassed or
00:02:01
Speaker
I felt very like shameful about certain situations growing up, but it can be almost like a like a the elephant in the room type of feeling.
00:02:14
Speaker
I'm trying to think of like a specific example that I've had to deal with recently.
00:02:20
Speaker
I think I'm very hard on myself, like self-critical.
00:02:24
Speaker
And I see that.
00:02:26
Speaker
That's where a lot of my shame comes into play.
00:02:30
Speaker
We actually, we can talk about this.
00:02:32
Speaker
We were just talking about this.
00:02:34
Speaker
You saw a guide in my space.
00:02:37
Speaker
So I'm not very good at self-care at all.
00:02:40
Speaker
And maybe anyone listening can relate to that.
00:02:44
Speaker
I always want to do all these things like, oh, I got to work out and I got to eat perfectly.
00:02:51
Speaker
I think a lot of my self-care things
00:02:54
Speaker
goals and aspirations are somewhat tied to perfectionism.
00:03:00
Speaker
Uh, and then I have resistance to tapping back into the old ways of, you know, feeling like I need to be perfect, uh, whatever that means.
00:03:13
Speaker
And then I feel shame about not doing the things I, I quote unquote needed to do.
00:03:20
Speaker
So like, um,
00:03:22
Speaker
You know, whether it's emptying the dishwasher before I go to work or and then there's dishes piled all day or whether and that's like, you know, an expectation that might have stemmed from childhood of like you need to always have an empty sink or, you know, like, oh, shoot, I didn't work out before I went to work.
00:03:41
Speaker
Therefore, I know myself, well, I'm not going to feel motivated to work out when I come home.
00:03:47
Speaker
And then that's like another day of not working out.
00:03:49
Speaker
And then it's like another day of not taking care of myself.
00:03:52
Speaker
So it becomes this perpetual inner...
00:03:56
Speaker
like inner circle of shame of like, it's not even coming from anyone externally anymore.
00:04:02
Speaker
At this point, I feel like I'm in control of my own shame, but then it's like, am I in control of it or is it controlling me?
00:04:10
Speaker
So that's something that I've been recently dealing with of figuring out like,
00:04:17
Speaker
how do I not feel shame for like not taking care of myself or like if it maybe it's not taking maybe it's just a matter of rephrasing it of like not taking care of like the phrase not taking care of yourself like what does that actually mean so I think I've I've been really struggling with that concept of like I'm very good about taking care of other people like that's where I thrive and that's you know especially at work I prioritize work
00:04:43
Speaker
lately over everything because it's making me money and money provides me the ability to buy things and, you know, experience different things that, you know, cost money and like, you know, being able to take care of my cat and buy her food and treats and,
00:05:01
Speaker
whatever it is.
00:05:02
Speaker
And I see that, like that pattern of pouring my heart and soul into work, like, yes, it's paying off at work, but it, where else is it paying off?
Shame in Society: Norms and Comparisons
00:05:14
Speaker
Um, and it's not necessarily like a lot of my time is spent either at work or thinking about work.
00:05:21
Speaker
And so it's kind of bringing my attention back to where is your attention?
00:05:27
Speaker
Uh, and you know,
00:05:30
Speaker
But then it brings me back to that place of shame of like, oh, it's all at work and I feel like I don't have enough time to take care of myself.
00:05:37
Speaker
And then it's like this constant, like, you know, like the angel and devil.
00:05:41
Speaker
It's just it's at this point, there's no angel.
00:05:43
Speaker
It's just the shame devil on my shoulder.
00:05:45
Speaker
But yeah, how do you?
00:05:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's it's interesting how shame is very attached to judgment.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yes.
00:05:53
Speaker
Because
00:05:55
Speaker
One of the underlying reasons that we feel shame is the fear of being judged by others and judging ourselves.
00:06:05
Speaker
Because you judge yourself, oh, I didn't do this, I could have done, should have, would have, right, that narrative.
00:06:14
Speaker
And then shame yourself for not accomplishing that.
00:06:18
Speaker
And then you feel shame for feeling shame.
00:06:20
Speaker
So it's kind of this vicious cycle that it kind of just perpetuates itself.
00:06:26
Speaker
And it's hard for people to get out of this narrative of shame.
00:06:31
Speaker
And I think shame has been so embedded in our society that
00:06:37
Speaker
probably from since humanity has gained consciousness.
00:06:44
Speaker
And if you think about it, it's tied a lot with religious energy, a lot of, you know, being a woman, there's a lot of shame around that.
00:06:59
Speaker
And I think we
00:07:01
Speaker
We also grew up in a culture that brings a lot of shame because there's a lot of comparison.
00:07:07
Speaker
Oh, I don't look this way, so I'm not good enough, so I feel shame.
00:07:14
Speaker
I was listening to this interview with specialist Dr. Gabor Mate, I don't know if you heard of him.
00:07:22
Speaker
He's a trauma specialist and he was just talking about how a lot of addictions
00:07:28
Speaker
and how people get into unhealthy patterns, it is because they feel this deep shame about things in their lives.
00:07:37
Speaker
And therefore you need something to suppress that shame.
00:07:41
Speaker
And then you get into unhealthy things.
00:07:44
Speaker
And I thought it was just a very interesting way that he framed that, how it can be the underlying reason of why people get into a lot of unhealthy patterns and behaviors.
00:07:59
Speaker
I think, I don't know, I can't think of a single human being that probably haven't felt shame.
00:08:07
Speaker
Oh, I think it's just, I guess, part of life.
00:08:09
Speaker
I think all of us have felt shame at different levels.
00:08:12
Speaker
Right.
00:08:12
Speaker
I think, you know, like I think for me growing up, my gosh, I felt shame probably by the time I was born.
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:20
Speaker
I don't even think I can remember a time that shame was not involved or has like sprinkled through my life.
00:08:26
Speaker
I felt shame.
00:08:28
Speaker
because I look different growing up.
00:08:32
Speaker
I was Asian in a Latino country.
00:08:35
Speaker
So I felt ashamed by the way that I looked.
00:08:38
Speaker
I felt ashamed of my body and there's body shaming.
00:08:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:08:42
Speaker
That's like the, I think the most prevalent theme, but like when you have both, like the cultural shaming.
00:08:50
Speaker
And societal.
00:08:51
Speaker
And societal and on top of body and like self-shame, like,
00:08:57
Speaker
that it can be overwhelming.
00:08:58
Speaker
Like, how did you recognize that within yourself and how did you, you know, unpack it or deal with it?
00:09:09
Speaker
I think throughout the years, and it's a process, I think it's just recognizing when you feel shame.
00:09:15
Speaker
I think if you look at shame at punishment, then it's heavy.
00:09:24
Speaker
But I think it's just having the awareness, oh my gosh, I feel ashamed of this, and then asking yourself, why do I feel ashamed of...
00:09:34
Speaker
feeling this way or judging myself this way.
00:09:38
Speaker
I think it's just unpacking what is behind the shame and getting to the core.
00:09:44
Speaker
Like I'll give an example, me being an immigrant here in the US, I felt ashamed that my English wasn't as perfect as a native and that was my own insecurity.
00:09:59
Speaker
there I felt ashamed when people would kind of make fun of it or they would point that out and then for me it was hard it's hard to unpack this stuff because really I think it touches a lot of our sensitive identity sensitive points and
00:10:23
Speaker
our insecurities, our doubts, and it touches all of that.
00:10:28
Speaker
I think shame, almost like, kind of like, it's like that blanket that kind of covers like all these wounds that we have.
00:10:39
Speaker
Shadow self.
00:10:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:41
Speaker
And then it kind of covers that.
00:10:43
Speaker
So whenever something gets triggered, you know, that comes.
00:10:48
Speaker
Like, don't look at that.
00:10:49
Speaker
You know, like, oh, if you're looking at a room, you don't want to look at the dark corner.
00:10:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:53
Speaker
So you kind of like you avoid it.
00:10:56
Speaker
Right.
00:10:56
Speaker
I think that's when we realize it's like, I just don't want to have to deal with it.
Coping Mechanisms and Mental Health
00:11:01
Speaker
I'm so ashamed.
00:11:02
Speaker
And it could be about anything.
00:11:04
Speaker
I think it could be about relationships that we've had.
00:11:08
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I'm so ashamed that I picked this guy that I trusted.
00:11:14
Speaker
Or I'm ashamed and people might come from families that, you know, they have very unhealthy dynamics.
00:11:20
Speaker
And if you're ashamed of that, ashamed that I, you know, it could be about so many things.
00:11:27
Speaker
And again, it's this judgment.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:30
Speaker
being judged by others your own judgment that get into it and uh and it's just like i think it's it's it's a complex uh concept yeah you know i wish it was that simple just to say oh it's like this black and white thing and this is how you deal with it but i think it's just so many layers it's how how did how did you deal with all the shame that you felt or you've been feeling
00:11:55
Speaker
as a kid definitely like bottle it up like stuff it down act like it didn't happen say like denial like 101 and but then it just sticks in your body and i realized like you know probably a lot of my like food like things that i've where i've had to control like you know my eating habits i think in the last episode i talked about my weird goldfish obsession in fifth grade like i
00:12:20
Speaker
probably felt a lot of shame around my body and but then it's like how do you cope with it and then it's ironic that I coped with it by eating no tons of goldfish like because I hated the body that I was in at the time because of
00:12:35
Speaker
you know, family information about like, you know, oh, you got to be a certain way to look pretty, to get a man.
00:12:43
Speaker
That's been a lot of my generational programming around like, you know, how do you find love?
00:12:47
Speaker
Oh, you got to be skinny and pretty.
00:12:49
Speaker
And I'm not skinny and pretty is in the eye of the beholder.
00:12:54
Speaker
So some days I feel pretty and then some days I feel like, you know, Charlize Theron and Monster and that's okay.
00:13:01
Speaker
I'll pick up.
00:13:02
Speaker
Like, and that's okay.
00:13:03
Speaker
Like, well, you're not that at all.
00:13:05
Speaker
No, but like, you know, like, like grubby and rolling out of bed and maybe I didn't shower that day and then I have to go to Target and I am not wearing any makeup and like, did I wash my face?
00:13:18
Speaker
Like all this.
00:13:19
Speaker
And it doesn't happen too often, but it's like when those moments happen, it's like, oh, how's your mental health today?
00:13:25
Speaker
Like, did you check in with yourself?
00:13:28
Speaker
And usually when I'm in a place of like, sometimes I'll want to like escape like mentally, like I'll just go off the grid.
00:13:35
Speaker
Like I want to answer people's text messages.
00:13:38
Speaker
I won't do the things that I need to do, whatever that is, or do the absolute bare minimum because I want to mentally escape.
00:13:49
Speaker
And I've been dealing with this, like this feeling of needing to escape for years.
00:13:57
Speaker
And it comes in and out based on like, how much responsibility do I have?
00:14:04
Speaker
And I see like, me just wanting to float away mentally, like leave my body and not be grounded and just do the absolute bare minimum.
00:14:16
Speaker
So you avoid.
00:14:17
Speaker
I avoid.
00:14:18
Speaker
So you don't have to deal.
00:14:19
Speaker
So that I don't have to deal with the feelings in my body, whether it's physical related to my body, like me not working out consistently.
00:14:28
Speaker
And I feel shame around that or like because, you know, it's not.
00:14:32
Speaker
I'm getting older, whatever it is.
00:14:34
Speaker
Like right now it's like, I'm getting older.
00:14:38
Speaker
I should be working out.
00:14:39
Speaker
I should be taking, it's a lot of should energy.
00:14:41
Speaker
And like when you should all over yourself, it's like that attracts, I think that can attract shame.
00:14:48
Speaker
So.
00:14:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's, I don't think it's like an easy thing to even admit sometimes that, oh my gosh, I feel shame or there is shame in my space.
00:15:00
Speaker
And sometimes it's even hard to label shame because it's just like all these different things, right?
00:15:05
Speaker
Avoidance and judgment and doubt and insecurity.
00:15:10
Speaker
But I think with shame, one of the things that I found helpful around whenever I'm feeling shame is to bring a little bit more self-acceptance and just accept shame.
00:15:22
Speaker
whatever I am at this moment.
00:15:25
Speaker
And we feel a lot of shame things that happened in the past most of the time.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:30
Speaker
And just, you know, accepting that things happen.
00:15:36
Speaker
And that was the experience and there's nothing that I can do to change it, but I can change how I move forward.
00:15:42
Speaker
So I can bring more self-acceptance.
00:15:46
Speaker
Doesn't mean that whatever happened was okay, because it might be, you know, situations of abuse or violence or disrespect, but...
00:15:57
Speaker
just being in the space where you have the self-acceptance, but also compassion.
00:16:03
Speaker
I think compassion is a very good antidote, I guess.
00:16:06
Speaker
That feels good.
00:16:08
Speaker
It feels of shame because the more compassionate you can be about yourself and you can bring this energy.
00:16:16
Speaker
And I would say, especially around your heart space, you know, we say here the heart chakra, but if you're not familiar with the term, just like the heart space,
00:16:25
Speaker
Just bringing more of this energy of compassion really helps to soothe this heaviness of shame.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:34
Speaker
You know, because then you can really...
00:16:38
Speaker
bring the energy back to you.
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:40
Speaker
You know, also bringing this back to you and not letting this shameful energy just kind of like take over.
00:16:48
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:16:48
Speaker
Cause it becomes this like rigid box of like, if I'm not conforming to like, let's just take my self care checklist.
00:16:55
Speaker
It just is always ongoing.
00:16:56
Speaker
And if I, it's almost like I'm setting myself up for failure of this belief that I have to do all these things throughout the day.
00:17:04
Speaker
to check it off the list, to just say, okay, cool.
00:17:06
Speaker
I took care of myself, but yet I'm not having fun when I have to confine to that list.
00:17:13
Speaker
And then I feel like accomplished, like hyper productivity.
00:17:19
Speaker
I feel, you know, like mentally sound, but then that gets to be kind of overwhelming for me.
00:17:26
Speaker
And then I go completely off the grid and like don't do any self-care.
00:17:30
Speaker
So it's just like yo-yo concept.
00:17:32
Speaker
And then when I don't do anything like that, I needed to do according to this like fake checklist that I think I made up or someone made up society, whatever it is, then I feel shame when I'm not, you know, performing like,
00:17:46
Speaker
well or like, you know, if you think of it as like a framework, like doing X, Y and Z, if I don't do X, Y and Z, then I feel shame.
00:17:55
Speaker
And I see that that's totally related to this like fake checklist that I have.
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah, what's self-imposed too.
00:18:03
Speaker
And I think we've been so conditioned to have this list of things that we need to accomplish.
00:18:12
Speaker
And in reality, there's no list.
00:18:15
Speaker
Right.
00:18:16
Speaker
There's no.
00:18:17
Speaker
Yeah, there's no finish line.
00:18:19
Speaker
There's nothing.
00:18:20
Speaker
You do whatever you feel like doing.
00:18:23
Speaker
If you can do things, you know, that day that you feel accomplished, great.
00:18:27
Speaker
If you don't, there's always the next day.
00:18:30
Speaker
So I think a lot of this, too, it's...
00:18:33
Speaker
We put a lot of pressure on ourselves.
00:18:36
Speaker
And again, it's this, you know, this, we feel responsibility.
00:18:42
Speaker
We feel that we need to perform.
00:18:44
Speaker
We need to have to put a mask on.
00:18:47
Speaker
We need, of course, like, say, for example, you go to work and you have to kind of perform in a certain way.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:53
Speaker
you go to a class, you have to perform a different way.
00:18:59
Speaker
So we do wear, I want to say, different masks.
00:19:02
Speaker
So it's hard sometimes for us to kind of just find ourselves in all of this.
00:19:08
Speaker
And
00:19:10
Speaker
I noticed that whenever people kind of get out of those spaces when they're not performing, it gets very confusing.
00:19:18
Speaker
And it gets very, people get very ungrounded because like, oh my gosh, who
Breaking Free from Societal Judgments
00:19:23
Speaker
am I?
00:19:23
Speaker
But then if you're not performing in that sense, or you're not performing well, or you're not...
00:19:30
Speaker
accomplishing or checking off achieving whatever that means that you're not either not good enough you're not worthy enough and then you go into the cycle of shame because you know I didn't perform that well so it's you know it's it becomes like there's like all these layers
00:19:49
Speaker
that just kind of pile on top of each other.
00:19:53
Speaker
Oh, it's a shit pile.
00:19:55
Speaker
Literally.
00:19:56
Speaker
You know, a shame pile.
00:19:58
Speaker
It is a shame pile and it stinks.
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah, and it stinks.
00:20:01
Speaker
It's because it's other people's opinions and every opinion is like, you know, a butthole.
00:20:07
Speaker
They all smell.
00:20:08
Speaker
Like they're never accurate.
00:20:09
Speaker
They're all...
00:20:11
Speaker
based on their own perception.
00:20:13
Speaker
And it just, I think the thing for me is like, I know this is like influenced by other people's information, but it's like, sometimes it feels like my own.
00:20:23
Speaker
And I, I've been in this like phase of having to take a lot of responsibility in my work environment, in my home environment.
00:20:32
Speaker
And like, so I'm just used to having to match the energy of responsibility.
00:20:37
Speaker
And I'm glad that you brought that up because that kind of,
00:20:40
Speaker
made me have an aha moment, like a universal ping or whatever, like, be like, oh, I, it's because I'm taking responsibility for probably things that I don't need to take responsibility for.
00:20:54
Speaker
And then when I'm like, not, you know, accomplishing those excess things,
00:21:01
Speaker
things that I just like feel like the need to just like do and take over and whether it's like me trying to control a situation or whatever it is like and then when it doesn't go my way or quote unquote what is my way right like when it doesn't go your way then you might feel feelings of shame or feelings like you lost control or like you know if you're ever in a situation where if you're trying to be like
00:21:28
Speaker
sober, like being able to, when you go, when you fall off the wagon, let's kind of bring up that example.
00:21:37
Speaker
Like, you know, there's a lot of shame that comes with that.
00:21:41
Speaker
And this constant need to, you know, be clean, whatever that means, whether it's like, you know, clean from drugs or marijuana or like
00:21:52
Speaker
you know, drinking, whatever that is.
00:21:56
Speaker
It's a framework, right?
00:21:59
Speaker
So you like have to follow the framework of being sober.
00:22:02
Speaker
And when you aren't, and when you fall off of that framework, there can be feelings of shame involved.
00:22:09
Speaker
So I think of it as like, you know, trying when you're trying to change habits and
00:22:19
Speaker
I think it becomes overwhelming, at least for me mentally, when I feel like I have to change a lot of habits at once or like change myself completely for the sake of somebody else or whatever, whatever comes up in my space, whatever the root of that shame is.
00:22:36
Speaker
And it can be really challenging when you are dissecting your own shame to figure out what is the root of the shame?
00:22:44
Speaker
Like, is it self-worth?
00:22:47
Speaker
Is it someone else's information?
00:22:50
Speaker
Because a lot of the time we do go to that place of avoidance, of avoiding looking at that shadow aspect of shame.
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah, for a lot of people, it's painful.
00:22:59
Speaker
I can speak for myself.
00:23:02
Speaker
But the only way out is through.
00:23:05
Speaker
If you want to get to the other side, you're going to have to swim through the pond, through the ocean.
00:23:10
Speaker
Through the murk.
00:23:12
Speaker
for the very deep ocean.
00:23:14
Speaker
But it's, speaking about responsibility too, I think that we, there's also this feeling of disappointment or disappointing people.
00:23:24
Speaker
When you have letting people down.
00:23:28
Speaker
I do feel that at times, sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, I forgot about something, about an appointment, about calling someone back.
00:23:37
Speaker
And I'm like, I'm disappointed in myself.
00:23:39
Speaker
And then I feel shame.
00:23:41
Speaker
You know, I'm ashamed.
00:23:42
Speaker
Oh, my gosh, I should have done again to shoot.
00:23:45
Speaker
Right.
00:23:45
Speaker
I should have called.
00:23:47
Speaker
How did I forget about this?
00:23:49
Speaker
You know, so you can, again, like putting that pressure on yourself and just understanding that we're humans.
00:23:55
Speaker
Oh, totally.
00:23:56
Speaker
We are going to fuck up.
00:23:57
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:23:58
Speaker
Oh, totally.
00:23:59
Speaker
That's part of my French, but that's just the nature of it.
00:24:04
Speaker
We're going to make mistakes and things are not going to be perfect.
00:24:07
Speaker
No.
00:24:08
Speaker
So you have to have some grace.
00:24:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:10
Speaker
For yourself.
00:24:11
Speaker
I think that's like the best.
00:24:14
Speaker
Like when you remember how to do that, when you remember how to give yourself grace and when you like can take a step back and be like, it's not that deep like this.
00:24:25
Speaker
Am I am I hurting anybody?
00:24:27
Speaker
No.
00:24:28
Speaker
Am I hurting myself by invalidating myself and taking on information that may not be my own?
00:24:38
Speaker
Like that is more where the root may lie.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:42
Speaker
And is it going to matter like a month from now?
00:24:45
Speaker
Right.
00:24:45
Speaker
Or even like a year.
00:24:47
Speaker
Is it going to matter a year from now?
00:24:49
Speaker
Right.
00:24:49
Speaker
Right.
00:24:49
Speaker
Probably not.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:51
Speaker
I want to say.
00:24:52
Speaker
So if you get a no, then just kind of, you know, try to just let that go.
00:24:59
Speaker
I know it sounds easy to say it.
00:25:01
Speaker
Right.
00:25:02
Speaker
But it's like, you know, that's not going to matter.
00:25:04
Speaker
Right.
00:25:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:05
Speaker
Just screw it.
00:25:06
Speaker
Right.
00:25:06
Speaker
Like.
00:25:07
Speaker
you know, if things are stressful and you like let someone down and they like scold you, I think that can be a situation where you might take on shame from someone else.
00:25:20
Speaker
And maybe in those situations kind of catch it live and be like,
00:25:25
Speaker
You know, if you feel like shame is sticking to you and your body, like look at it in meditation, literally when you get home and see why did it stick in my space?
00:25:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:37
Speaker
Why you got so triggered?
00:25:38
Speaker
Why you got triggered?
00:25:40
Speaker
Why you felt shame?
00:25:41
Speaker
Why you feel bad?
00:25:42
Speaker
Like usually if someone projects that, like I let them down in some way and I feel shame about it, I'll, I'll overly apologize and then I'll apologize again.
00:25:53
Speaker
Like every time I see that person and then like kind of like let it not let it go.
00:25:58
Speaker
And then it brings up the shame all over again.
00:26:01
Speaker
So it's kind of like a reminder to...
00:26:06
Speaker
maybe acknowledge like, did you even need to take on the shame in the first place?
00:26:11
Speaker
Or was that somebody else projecting like something onto you?
00:26:15
Speaker
And I see like a lot of the shame that I have is probably a projection of society of like not being as hyper productive as I'm not doing everything I need to do.
00:26:26
Speaker
Like Marsha Brady's, you know, symptoms of like having wanting to do everything, but literally I can't.
00:26:32
Speaker
yeah and it's a perception yeah right so you have this perception that you have to be perfect or you have to know how to do things and like be the expert and when you're not yeah and then oh you have to have all the answers and reality is like no one does no we're literally all making it up we're yeah we're basically learning as we go in this lifetime
00:26:59
Speaker
Some of us maybe learn the hard way.
00:27:02
Speaker
So that's why it might look like that we know what we're doing.
00:27:06
Speaker
But life doesn't come with a manual.
00:27:09
Speaker
So you just kind of have to do the best that you can.
00:27:12
Speaker
But I would say that, you know, with shame...
00:27:17
Speaker
I think there are, of course, it depends where you live and what type of society and community you live in where shame is very predominant.
00:27:29
Speaker
And I know it could be hard, you know, to kind of really free yourself, break away from the generational shame.
00:27:38
Speaker
if you are living in an environment where shame is used to manipulate or use as punishment you know and to kind of mold you into uh behave a certain way
Recognizing and Managing Shame
00:27:50
Speaker
or what is it is yeah what is expected from you so i think it will of course uh it will be applied to you know different types of situations and circumstances but i think the more you know yourself
00:28:05
Speaker
The more you're authentic, it's not going to matter what others think and what others talk about you.
00:28:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:13
Speaker
Because you're just so certain about yourself and you know yourself.
00:28:18
Speaker
It's like, well,
00:28:20
Speaker
It doesn't matter.
00:28:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:21
Speaker
You know, it doesn't stick into my space.
00:28:23
Speaker
It's kind of like throwing.
00:28:24
Speaker
What is that?
00:28:25
Speaker
You know, remember the toy that we had when we were kids and we would like throw it to the wall and it just kind of like it's like this jelly thing.
00:28:32
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:28:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:34
Speaker
You know, it sticks to the wall.
00:28:35
Speaker
Then it just kind of starts like the hand going down.
00:28:39
Speaker
Like it doesn't really stick to the wall.
00:28:41
Speaker
It just kind of goes down.
00:28:43
Speaker
onto the floor.
00:28:44
Speaker
It's kind of like that.
00:28:46
Speaker
That's kind of how the energy that I see is kind of thrown at you.
00:28:49
Speaker
We're like, whatever.
00:28:52
Speaker
Right.
00:28:52
Speaker
That's their opinion.
00:28:53
Speaker
That's none of my business.
00:28:55
Speaker
Right.
00:28:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:56
Speaker
You know, but easier than said than said to say it.
00:29:00
Speaker
Oh, totally.
00:29:00
Speaker
Like in the moment it can be, I definitely would say and recommend like when you are looking at shame projected from other people,
00:29:10
Speaker
Maybe look at it like a couple of days.
00:29:13
Speaker
If you can neutrally look at that situation in meditation and catch it as soon as possible, great.
00:29:19
Speaker
But sometimes it takes like a few days to kind of recover from like a shame spillage or a shame splatter where you just feel like
00:29:29
Speaker
you're all up in your own shame or somebody else like splatted their own shame onto you or, you know, like this belief that you need to feel shameful about something.
00:29:40
Speaker
And sometimes it can take a few days to like, just get over that situation and just be able to look at things neutrally, at least in my personal experience.
00:29:50
Speaker
Like if somebody shames me and I'm already in self shame, it's like, usually that's where it happens, right?
00:29:57
Speaker
It's like, like attracts like, so.
00:29:59
Speaker
Yeah, it becomes like a snowball.
00:30:00
Speaker
Oh, totally.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:01
Speaker
It just kind of piles on top of what already exists.
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:05
Speaker
So this has been good to talk about today because I'm like, oh, I need to give myself some grace because, you know, why be in this mental hell of self-invalidation and self-shame when I can feel...
00:30:19
Speaker
at ease mentally and create space for the things that I actually need to do.
00:30:24
Speaker
And maybe I'll enjoy going on a walk or working out or taking care of quote unquote self care stuff that are on my list of things that I ideally need to do.
00:30:36
Speaker
And then also like take a look at your list of things that you absolutely need to accomplish every day.
00:30:40
Speaker
Are all of them realistic?
00:30:43
Speaker
Do you need to do them that day?
00:30:45
Speaker
Like what are the
00:30:47
Speaker
like kind of maybe like the bare minimum list so that you don't get in micro pockets of self-shame like I have been in recently.
00:30:57
Speaker
Yeah, and if others throw shame at you, which is, you know, the most popular probably sort of situations, it's just thinking about in a way that is it doesn't matter.
00:31:15
Speaker
Does this person's opinion or even society, does it matter?
00:31:20
Speaker
How does that affect my life?
00:31:22
Speaker
Is it going to matter a year from now?
00:31:25
Speaker
Is it dictating my life?
00:31:27
Speaker
Does it serve me?
00:31:28
Speaker
If the answer is no...
00:31:30
Speaker
I would just say, you know, at least send it back.
00:31:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:33
Speaker
Just return that energy and just own who you are.
00:31:37
Speaker
Because I know that shame comes, can be very subtle sometimes.
00:31:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:31:44
Speaker
Comes in very subtle forms, but it can also be very aggressive.
00:31:48
Speaker
It's like,
00:31:49
Speaker
Just smudge from Fern Gully.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yes, it can come, you know, in many different forms and ways and can come in conversation.
00:31:57
Speaker
It can come from relationships and it can come, you know, it's many different forms and shapes.
00:32:05
Speaker
But I think one is just like recognizing and becoming aware.
00:32:09
Speaker
Where do you feel shame?
00:32:11
Speaker
Maybe you feel shame in your body.
00:32:13
Speaker
Maybe there's a sensation in your body.
00:32:15
Speaker
Like for me, I feel like this rush, like there's a heat that kind of like it kind of like it almost takes over my body.
00:32:25
Speaker
You know, I feel this rush of just kind of coming that comes from like my gut and it just kind of travels all the way up to like my cheeks.
00:32:34
Speaker
I want to say.
00:32:35
Speaker
So that's kind of how shame feels in my body.
00:32:39
Speaker
So it's important to recognize that.
00:32:42
Speaker
Where does it feel in your body?
00:32:44
Speaker
And just kind of allow that just to kind of come and it just goes.
00:32:50
Speaker
So it's just, it's a temporary feeling.
00:32:52
Speaker
The problem happens is if you let that kind of live and just take room in
Support Systems and Empathy for Shame
00:32:59
Speaker
your body.
00:32:59
Speaker
Right, totally.
00:33:00
Speaker
Like, I think I have like,
00:33:02
Speaker
some deep childhood wounds that have a little bit of like sticky shame and my second, my fourth and my fifth, like I can't talk, like I feel like I can't talk about it.
00:33:12
Speaker
That's where I feel like, Oh, I need to find a therapist.
00:33:15
Speaker
And then because I still haven't found a therapist, I feel shame about not having found a therapist yet or not having done the work.
00:33:22
Speaker
Um, since I've been on this like path to do the work and like,
00:33:25
Speaker
clean out as much as possible to be like a better version of myself.
00:33:29
Speaker
But then that also becomes like a huge expectation that I put on myself.
00:33:34
Speaker
So then when I'm not doing the work to be as best as possible, it becomes, you know, I guess I need to kind of take a step back and be like, you know, maybe let's start with micro.
00:33:47
Speaker
aspects of shame yeah like the self it's a self-shaming process oh totally yeah right because you there's all this invisible expectations and then because we can fulfill it then we bring shame so you we kind of want to take our power back yeah and not let shame kind of take the reins
00:34:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:11
Speaker
Out of our lives.
00:34:13
Speaker
And again, if you need to unpack, you know, feelings of shame or situations when you feel shame, it's I think it's always a good idea to speak with a professional.
00:34:25
Speaker
You know, whether it be a therapist, psychologist or counselor, maybe you do have a friend that you trust.
00:34:31
Speaker
Oh, excuse us with the background noises.
00:34:33
Speaker
We do have a very special guest.
00:34:36
Speaker
Yeah, Zoe.
00:34:37
Speaker
Zoe that has a tail and she has fur.
00:34:41
Speaker
She just grunted.
00:34:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:42
Speaker
She wants to, I guess, join the podcast.
00:34:45
Speaker
So she has a lot to say too.
00:34:48
Speaker
But it's helpful just to have someone where you can just unpack this type of feelings.
00:34:55
Speaker
Because they're not fun to unpack.
00:34:58
Speaker
No, especially by yourself.
00:34:59
Speaker
Sometimes it's hard to even like recognize it.
00:35:03
Speaker
Maybe like journaling also could help.
00:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, self-reflection.
00:35:07
Speaker
I think really helps in this.
00:35:10
Speaker
Yeah, especially if you don't have the resources to find a therapist or if you feel like, for me, I'm just avoidant of going to therapy lately.
00:35:19
Speaker
I haven't even begun to unpack that.
00:35:23
Speaker
And, you know, maybe on a future episode, you'll find out why.
00:35:26
Speaker
But I think like maybe journaling and when you do feel when you do recognize the feeling of shame in your body or in your space.
00:35:35
Speaker
Like maybe writing down like, okay, when you are in your safe space, whether that's at home or in your car or like any type of moment where you feel like you can feel safe to have a moment to decompress and really reflect on like, okay, I felt I did not like that situation.
00:35:52
Speaker
Why did I not like that situation?
00:35:55
Speaker
And then it's like, oh, I felt shame.
00:35:57
Speaker
Why did I feel shame?
00:35:59
Speaker
Oh, this reminded me of the time in kindergarten where I farted in front of everyone.
00:36:02
Speaker
or whatever it is.
00:36:04
Speaker
Like, and that reminds me, I was at a bachelorette party a couple weeks ago and I was like holding in a fart and in front of some, like someone who I didn't know.
00:36:16
Speaker
And they were, most of them like are my sister's best friends from college, but there was, you know, someone who I had just met.
00:36:22
Speaker
And I'm like, you know, I usually try not to fart in front of people I just met.
00:36:26
Speaker
I try not to fart in front of people at all, but sometimes it happens.
00:36:30
Speaker
And sometimes you eat like just a lot of chips that day and like, you know, things that you normally wouldn't eat or you traveled.
00:36:37
Speaker
And it was all of the above for me.
00:36:39
Speaker
And we were like holding this 10 second breath.
00:36:43
Speaker
selfie photo and literally at the end of that 10 seconds I just let it rip and like we all died laughing but like the amount of blood that rushed to my face I don't blush off often and I don't really get embarrassed too often but I was so embarrassed because I'm like I don't know her
00:37:01
Speaker
she could like find that disgusting.
00:37:03
Speaker
Like I could be just absolutely gross to her, whatever, whatever, like embarrassment thoughts that came up.
00:37:09
Speaker
And then I found out like a couple of days later that she was like, I just love Shannon.
00:37:14
Speaker
She's so authentic.
00:37:16
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:37:17
Speaker
I mean, honestly, it's more, it's more about ourselves than it is sometimes about others.
00:37:24
Speaker
Right.
00:37:24
Speaker
Exactly.
00:37:25
Speaker
They don't care.
00:37:26
Speaker
People don't have time to be like, you know, think about it.
00:37:31
Speaker
People are worrying about their own stuff.
00:37:32
Speaker
They don't worry about what we're doing.
00:37:34
Speaker
Right.
00:37:35
Speaker
You know, I mean, I don't care about that stuff.
00:37:39
Speaker
The more authentic people can be around me.
00:37:41
Speaker
And I hope I can facilitate that for people just to feel free to be themselves.
00:37:47
Speaker
That's, you know, that's my goal.
00:37:50
Speaker
But, you know, another thing that I thought about you is that.
00:37:53
Speaker
not only us recognizing when we feel shame, but also about, because it goes both ways, us shaming others too.
00:38:01
Speaker
Right.
00:38:02
Speaker
Whoever caught ourselves like, you know, judging others.
00:38:05
Speaker
And I have to, you know, I had a situation this past week where I work with children.
00:38:11
Speaker
And children, sometimes they like to be naked.
00:38:14
Speaker
They don't like to wear clothes.
00:38:16
Speaker
And if you work with children, you have children, you probably relate to this.
00:38:21
Speaker
And one of the kids, he was wandering naked and wanted to show me his private parts because, you know, they're very curious.
00:38:28
Speaker
They don't have this, like, you know.
00:38:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:32
Speaker
this whole uh uh what is it called uh they don't feel shame around their bodies so he was just like curious and he was just like telling me and showing me his private parts and then i and he didn't mean anything by it he's just genuine curiosity he was just like he thought he was funny yeah and
00:38:54
Speaker
I at that moment I caught myself like not going to the space of saying oh my gosh like cover yourself up and right trying to like traditional punish right punish and judge and I caught myself right at that moment and I and I looked at him like I'm
00:39:15
Speaker
I know, right?
00:39:17
Speaker
Isn't it?
00:39:17
Speaker
Isn't it so cool that you have all this fun body parts?
00:39:21
Speaker
You know, so I try to kind of make a joke out of it.
00:39:24
Speaker
But then I also told her, it's like, listen, I've been taking care of you since you're a baby.
00:39:28
Speaker
So it's nothing new.
00:39:31
Speaker
There's nothing new here.
00:39:32
Speaker
So I try to make it like in a fun way.
00:39:35
Speaker
that the child didn't feel ashamed of himself for just being a child.
00:39:42
Speaker
And I was like, wow, I felt proud of myself at that moment.
00:39:47
Speaker
But then I did say, listen, but we are going to go out, but we are going to have to put clothes on.
00:39:54
Speaker
And he was like, okay.
00:39:56
Speaker
So I didn't create this uncomfortable situation.
00:39:59
Speaker
So I think it's also not only...
00:40:03
Speaker
recognizing that we can be the victims of shame, but we also can be the perpetrators of shame too.
00:40:10
Speaker
Like, you know, maybe we see someone that is dressed a certain way and we're like, oh, look at how they're dressed.
00:40:17
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:40:18
Speaker
Like they're talking so loud and, you know, like all this type of judgments and sort of, you know, throwing this energy at people.
00:40:28
Speaker
So I think it's us also owning that too.
00:40:31
Speaker
Not only, of course,
00:40:33
Speaker
We have received shame in so many different situations, but hey, I'm going to call on myself.
00:40:39
Speaker
I think that's amazing that you caught yourself in the moment before you went to the place where maybe somebody told you that as a kid.
Generational Shifts and Listener Engagement
00:40:47
Speaker
Many times.
00:40:48
Speaker
Or something you saw on TV or like the usual...
00:40:51
Speaker
Like, I mean, usually when people are naked in public, the default response is cover up, you know, whatever it is.
00:40:57
Speaker
Like, what are you thinking?
00:40:58
Speaker
Right.
00:40:58
Speaker
So you're going to this like this.
00:41:01
Speaker
It's immoral.
00:41:02
Speaker
Right.
00:41:03
Speaker
Anything like in that sense.
00:41:05
Speaker
And I and I think for me, it's I, you know, working with children for me has been.
00:41:12
Speaker
definitely triggered a lot of memories around being shamed.
00:41:18
Speaker
You know, I was shamed a lot when I was a child, whether because I was, my gosh, I was a tomboy when I was a child.
00:41:26
Speaker
I don't know if I ever shared that with you.
00:41:27
Speaker
No, I don't think you have.
00:41:29
Speaker
I was, you know, I like to climb trees.
00:41:32
Speaker
I didn't like girly things.
00:41:34
Speaker
And that has changed a lot because I'm the total opposite today.
00:41:37
Speaker
But I was...
00:41:39
Speaker
You know, judged.
00:41:40
Speaker
Right.
00:41:40
Speaker
Because of that, like, but you're a girl.
00:41:42
Speaker
A gender norm.
00:41:43
Speaker
Yeah, like, no, that's not what girls do.
00:41:45
Speaker
That's not what girls say or that's not what girls wear.
00:41:48
Speaker
So I promised myself that in this journey, I am going to be and do things for this case that I never received as a child.
00:41:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:00
Speaker
So whatever invalidation I received it, I am not going to pass that on.
00:42:04
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:42:05
Speaker
I am going to go into the space of validation.
00:42:08
Speaker
But it and again, and this takes work and it didn't happen overnight.
00:42:12
Speaker
Acknowledgement.
00:42:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:13
Speaker
And self-awareness.
00:42:14
Speaker
I think the more aware you are of yourself,
00:42:18
Speaker
then you can relate to others and have empathy and compassion for others too so i think it's a it is a journey and a process that goes both ways yeah right it starts with you right and then you kind of create a ripple effect towards others so you don't perpetuate yeah energy of shame i think that's beautiful that you were able to like
00:42:42
Speaker
catch you know some programming that you may have been lingering in from your own experiences around shame or feeling shame by other people and catching that and not projecting that i think that's how that's where the change starts and i love this like new generation everyone talks about gen z but like gen alpha like i i think gen alpha is like the next generation of like where we're going to see a lot of like
00:43:10
Speaker
you know, just take gender norms into play.
00:43:14
Speaker
Like, I hope that that just keeps getting unpacked.
00:43:19
Speaker
Yeah, we're questioning too.
00:43:20
Speaker
Yeah, questioning gender norms.
00:43:22
Speaker
Questioning like, well, why are you shaming me?
00:43:25
Speaker
Right.
00:43:26
Speaker
Why?
00:43:26
Speaker
Right.
00:43:27
Speaker
Who are you?
00:43:28
Speaker
Right, why are you judging me for wanting to wear a dress when I am traditionally, you know, a man or a boy or, you know, born a boy, but maybe they are non-binary and wear whatever you want.
00:43:38
Speaker
Yeah, I feel blessed that we are able to see all this, like, I...
00:43:45
Speaker
this transition, you know, into our consciousness levels and how we are growing and evolving as humans and not letting this type of stuff like dictate, you know, our lives anymore because it's exhausting.
00:43:59
Speaker
Oh, it is.
00:44:00
Speaker
It just takes up space and it's old information that doesn't serve people anymore.
00:44:04
Speaker
And everything I'm saying right now, I'm just like, oh, I need to just listen to the words that I have to say.
00:44:11
Speaker
It's a healing experience.
00:44:12
Speaker
It is.
00:44:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:13
Speaker
It is.
00:44:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:15
Speaker
But I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and hopefully you took something insightful and useful around our conversation, our own experiences.
00:44:28
Speaker
But we would love to hear your stories.
00:44:31
Speaker
If you have, you know, what do you think about shame?
00:44:35
Speaker
Have you ever felt shamed?
00:44:38
Speaker
How did it play in your life?
00:44:40
Speaker
And you can find us on Instagram, TikTok.
00:44:44
Speaker
We're everywhere.
00:44:46
Speaker
So follow us, leave us a comment, and we look forward to our next episode.
00:44:53
Speaker
Thank you so much from the psychic girls next door.