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Cole Clayton on Osteopathy, Cranial Work, The Primitive Argument, Movement, and Mouth Taping!
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We begin with insights into Cole's view on osteopathy and his personal journey at the intersection of these practices. This snowballs into Cole's practice, in which he works closely with a holistic dentist! The discussion turns to myofunctional therapy and the concept of mewing, exploring the importance of these practices for overall well-being, as well as some things to consider when pursuing these practices.
We emphasize the significance of cranial work in the context of osteopathy, unraveling its role in promoting health. Exploring the theme of client autonomy in osteopathy, we discuss the importance of empowering individuals in their healing journeys.
Addressing the question of whether primitive individuals need osteopathy, we delve into the argument surrounding the application of osteopathy in different contexts. The conversation shifts to a discussion on Weston A. Price, as well as the primitive argument in general.
We delve into the impact of indoor air quality, the importance of movement, proper sleep, and mouth taping!
I hope you enjoy the episode
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Transcript
Introduction to Beyond Terrain with Cole Clayton
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Beyond Terrain podcast. I'm joined today by Cole Clayton for episode 14. Cole has a super interesting career path right now, I think. And I stumbled upon his work there on social media. And it really just resonated right off the bat with me. And he works closely with one of his friends there in the field of holistic dentistry. And Cole himself is an osteopath.
00:00:31
Speaker
certainly well versed in a lot of topics, I think. And, uh, I definitely want to get into that today with him. So, you know, Cole, thank you for joining me today. Not a problem. Thanks for having me. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Defining Health: Sustainability and Longevity
00:00:45
Speaker
So like I said, uh, earlier there, I was, uh, I always asked my guests, um, to kind of define what health is, what health means to them. And this obviously gives us a good baseline to work off of. So, you know, what does health mean to you? What does that look like? Oh,
00:01:02
Speaker
You know what it is? For me, it's pretty simple. It's just about sustainability, right? I'm not talking about ecological sustainability. I'm talking about actual health, longevity, sustainability. So, I mean, myself included, a lot of people find one path and then they go like hell for leather down there and I'm going to become carnivore and they're only going to eat meat
00:01:32
Speaker
And I'm going to make sure I watch every sunrise and then I'm, but now I'm going to do hit training, but now I'm going to do only cardio. Do you know what I mean? So we tend to, which is normal, like we tend to, but we tend to find these things latch onto it for a few months and then or a year or about 80 months or two years. It depends on how strong the philosophy is. And then we go, I don't think that was actually the answer. And then we go to the next thing. Yeah.
00:02:02
Speaker
So for me, health is that sustainability in the long term. Don't tell me what you're doing this next set of six weeks. Tell me how you're going to be in 10 years. Because it's easy to be in your 20s and be healthy. You can be in your 20s and get on the source
00:02:32
Speaker
couple days and eat a few hamburgers and stuff like that and still go to the gym and look buff, right? But it's like, all right, let me see how you are when you're 47. So, you know, that's what I define as health. Someone that has a way of life, a way of living that's sustainable in the long term that actually works, you know?
Stories of Sustainable Longevity
00:03:02
Speaker
So, you know, I'm just thinking about the guy that lived at the end of our street when I grew up. Well, it wasn't really a street. I grew up in a country. So it's a country road, right? So this is old Bob Worcester, you know, that was his name. So he used to get up every morning at 4 a.m. and go and milk the cows. All right. So he ran a dairy. So this guy lived till he was 85. The year before he died, he was competing in the woodchops.
00:03:32
Speaker
You got a woodchop in Canada? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you know what it is. Like you stand on, you get a real sharp back, stand on a log of hardwood and our hardwood down here in Australia, like lives up to its name. It's like concrete, right? So you stand there and bang, bang, bang. And you chop to time and to, um, you know, handicap. Anyway, Bob, he was still doing a woodchop at 84.
00:04:02
Speaker
in the show, he died the year after at 85. He didn't have really any health problems, but he wasn't necessarily, he didn't have a six pack or anything. He was pretty solidly built, probably had a drink or two, but what was it? It was sustainability. Every morning he got up 4 a.m., milked the cows, chopped some wood.
00:04:29
Speaker
It was simple and sustainable and it worked. So that's how I see it. Longevity is definitely a part of my definition of health too and I love that story. I was fishing lobster there a couple of years ago and the captain of the boat was telling me about his mother actually who she would
00:04:53
Speaker
she would captain the boat and she would run the hauler. So you'd pull the lobster traps up on this kind of hauler, right? The spinning wheel and it would pull these traps up. The traps are about a hundred pounds or so. And you'd have to kind of pull them onto the boat and then fella would pull them down. Anyway, he's telling me that his mother at 86 years old would fish with him every, every season up until she passed away. So similar story. And you know, that's really for me, it's
Longevity and Quality of Life: A Discussion
00:05:20
Speaker
longevity. And then when I think of longevity too, you got to think,
00:05:23
Speaker
Okay, well, as long as everybody living to be 130, or is it living to 85 and, you know, being able to jump around and, you know, be in good health and milk cows in the morning and do here daily, like do what you want to do. Right. Yeah. Because my grandma lived till she was 99, but the last seven years of that, she lives sitting in a chair. Yeah. So is that, is that healthy? Probably not. You know,
00:05:51
Speaker
what she probably would have tapped out around 85, 86, cause she had some right side half failure, but they put a pacemaker in, you know? So it's like, then you start going down that train of intervention and stroke and then, you know, being incapacitated and sitting in a chair literally for seven years, you know? Can't move the arm.
00:06:18
Speaker
the head properly can't walk properly, all that stuff. So that's not really healthy, but like pulling in lobsters or milking the cows at 86 and then dying, that's healthy. You know? Yeah, I agree. Yeah. And maybe a certain amount, I guess it gets a little, um, you know, it depends on what you want too, but I know like, uh, I could probably sit around for a couple of years, but I had lots of grandkids to entertain me, right? But you know, I might get tiresome after a while, but
00:06:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's super cool.
Successful Aging and Novel Challenges
00:06:51
Speaker
You can go right into that. And Steve, because Steven Kotler, he's written a book about that. You know, have you looked at his work much? Oh, I don't think so. Steven Kotler, he said. Yeah, flow science guy. So he, he says you've got to do physically challenging things like
00:07:15
Speaker
things that challenge you physically and mentally in novel environments, preferably socially as well. So whether that be like hiking in the woods in a new place with a group, or in his case, he learned skiing with some friends and stuff when he was, I don't know, 50 something. He learned freestyle skiing, but he wrote a book about that called Na Country.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's, that's what he found that the key to like, um, successful aging was. So maybe that, you know, holding in lobster pots with a group of people in novel environments and novel environment, the sea is always changing. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. It was already onto it. You said it was, it was something, uh, physically and then something mentally as well. Was there a very spiritual component talked about there?
00:08:13
Speaker
I don't think so. Not really. Stephen Kotler doesn't really go into that sort of stuff too much. Yeah. Sure. I do. You can talk to me about that. What do you think then?
Spirituality and Holistic Health
00:08:26
Speaker
What are your thoughts there? Do you think that plays a role in the longevity at all? Maybe like longevity is not really my topic. Sustainability, it was just in terms of like what health is. But yeah, like I think having
00:08:43
Speaker
Well, the work that I do, there's a slide that my mentor put up when he was teaching us as a group and it was this lady sitting with a lion and it said, if you don't have a spiritual fulcrum, it's very hard to do this work, which is like cranial osteopathy, you know, like working real gently with the head and with the body's mechanisms. So it was, I think that's true in life. So like you have to have some
00:09:14
Speaker
uh, fulcrum, some, some sort of balance point that gives you perspective. You know what I mean? That's big part of the sustainability. So like running hell for leather to become like an internet entrepreneur and sleeping four hours a night and all that sort of stuff. It's all cool. Like it's popular, right? Um, but, but really what's the point of that?
00:09:44
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, what's the actual, you know, when you've finished your life and you're looking back, are you going to essentially look back and go, yeah, that was cool. Like, I really affected some people's lives there, or I really made a big difference in this area or that area. Because that's really what spirituality is. Saint Francis of Assisi said that it's about
00:10:13
Speaker
Finding out essentially what he said is find out what you're good at, get good at it and use it for service of other people. That's all you have to do. Simple as that. But if we look around, how many people are actually doing that? People get stuck in jobs they hate, they're eating crap food, they're getting shit sleep. They're not actually fulfilling themselves, let alone finding what they're good at, let alone using that as service for others. Why? Because that's hard.
00:10:43
Speaker
It's actually really hard work, like spiritual path is difficult work because you're going to have to acknowledge yourself, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a really great perspective actually. It really does put it in perspective. Um, yeah, that's fantastic.
Cole's Journey to Osteopathy
00:11:08
Speaker
So I guess, you know, now might be a good time to get into, uh,
00:11:12
Speaker
You know, I know you're really into the breathwork side of things too, and maybe we can kind of touch on osteopathy because it's something we really haven't talked about yet. So generally, you know, what's your philosophy when it comes to osteopathy, you know, and, um, maybe you could talk a little bit about your journey and how you got onto that path and, um, everywhere it's taken you. Yeah, that's a long story. Well, like say the definition of osteopath is.
00:11:38
Speaker
It's an old joke. The definition of osteopath is disagreement. There's a couple of schools in osteopathic thought. There's one that we should be like manual therapy, like physiotherapy or whatever. There's another one that
00:12:04
Speaker
that we should be exclusive and that osteopathy is an old tradition and should be upheld and so on. And there's somewhat of a middle way, but most osteopaths, like if you present them with a neck pain, pretty much everyone will treat it differently. You still get good results, but everyone's got a different idea. So that's cool. Like I don't really get involved with that, like live and let live. But what I do is,
00:12:33
Speaker
mostly focused on cranial osteopathy. I do a little bit of general stuff too because of my background. Like so I do work fairly closely with breathing because it's one of the key elements in traditional osteopathy actually. So I do like my facial work. I do what we call MET work, which is real structural sort of stuff. So what we call structural osteopathy is like hands-on manual therapy.
00:13:01
Speaker
But then a lot of what I do is what we call cranial or what we call, what's properly termed osteopathy in a cranial field. So that was started by a guy called William Garner Sutherland, who was a student of the guy who started osteopathy, who was called AT Still, who was a medical doctor that was disenfranchised with the system. And so he kind of looked into
00:13:29
Speaker
anatomy basically and studied anatomy and figured out ways that how the body worked and what ways to, you know, if we use your word, alter the terrain so that it worked better basically. So if little fluke flows better or there's better joint alignment, so there's better neural inputs and so on. So that's how he looked at things. And then,
00:13:55
Speaker
Sutherland was sort of standing in front of this skull and he literally had a voice in his head that said, you know, beveled like the gills of a fish built for an articular respiratory motion. And he was like, no, no, the skull doesn't move. That's not built for motion. So he spent about 30 years trying to prove to himself that the skull didn't move. But in doing that, he found out that skull moves and
00:14:21
Speaker
how it moves and how the bones articulate and how they create strains and patterns and so on and so on. So he spent like a long time figuring it all out. He almost knocked himself off a few times. He passed out. His wife found him out cold in his study with a football helmet on or something. Like the rumor goes, the stories go. So anyway, he taught some people in the end of his career, he taught people
00:14:50
Speaker
travel around America with a series of charts and stuff and taught people what he'd found and then so they picked up on that and then they taught some people and those people taught some people and that that generation taught me so like while I was at university studying osteopathy in the academic sense I was also studying classical osteopathy or cranial osteopathy
00:15:16
Speaker
in like small group study groups with the guy called George. So he had been taught by the people that were taught by the masters that were taught by the master and master originally. So it's like, I kind of take pride in that in a way, like it's a direct lineage and it's a, I guess it's relatively new. It's been around since the fifties, you know?
00:15:46
Speaker
But it's a totally different way of looking at things. It's actually based on anatomy. People think it's sort of this woo thing where you're sitting there, you know, holding someone's head and being really, really still. But it's actually based on anatomical principles. So what we're really trying to do is get the cerebral spinal fluid moving properly.
00:16:10
Speaker
moving well and or moving let's say moving unobstructed so that's the fluid that flows between your brain and your spinal cord and there's different mechanisms to that which we can go into if you want but I'll skim it now and then that then once you've got that moving then you want to move to what we call secondary respiration so we call breathing secondary respiration how about that
00:16:41
Speaker
We call the movement of cerebrospinal fluid primary respiration. So yeah, CSF breathing and then through doing that you get circulation improved. So blood flow airflow and CSF flow. So once you can get those things unobstructed, you know,
00:17:03
Speaker
person, a person's going to feel better. It doesn't even really matter what stage of health or life they're at. I treated my dad with cranios, it would be like three days before he died. And he said he really liked him. Yeah, so, so that's what I do. And how I came to that was long and convoluted. Just through, through, I mean, I'm originally trained in art, like painting, drawing,
00:17:33
Speaker
And then I did some PT and then there was another wild Canadian actually called Paul Chek. You might've heard of Paul? You heard of Paul Chek? No, I don't think so. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. Well, you'd love him. Um, so I came across him, um, many years ago, his work at a fitness conference and I was like, right, okay, this, this guy's actually making sense because no many people in fitness,
00:17:59
Speaker
I was back in the early 2000s, not many people in fitness actually made sense. They just talked about how to lift weights and where to put your knees and all that sort of stuff. Paul came in and his stuff was way, way, way advanced for that time.
00:18:20
Speaker
And he was using the Swiss balls and rotation and it just, it just made a lot of sense to me. I was like, well, this is, this is where I want to be. Cause this guy actually talking, you know, sense and health as well. So he's big on organic food and light and sleep and breathing and that sort of stuff. So he is a holistic sort of health practitioner before it was real big and mainstream. So I started his own for a long time.
00:18:50
Speaker
And then I kind of got to a saturation point with that and it was kind of like a little bored. And so I decided to go and do maintenance, like lawns and gutters and stuff in this particular place in the country. Just before I did this guy, like absolutely insisted on coming to see me. Like, it's like, I want to see your tech practitioner, blah, blah.
00:19:14
Speaker
I was like, oh, yeah, all right, dude, I can't remember, but I'm done with this stuff. And he's blown out his shoulder and I say, look at his teeth. And I said, oh, mate, you got a missing lower six down there. You really need to see a dentist. And I'd heard of this dentist, this dude called Tony. And I said, look, people ain't raving about this bloke and telling me how great he is. So why don't you go and see this guy?
00:19:42
Speaker
And so I wrote a referral letter of all things and sent Gary off. And I forgot about it. I just went about getting ready to move to the country. And then this wacky dude like rings me up. He's like, dude, I'm very impressed. You knew that was a primary dental problem. You need to come over and see me. And I was just like, oh, mate, like I'm out of here.
00:20:09
Speaker
Anyway, long story short, I went and saw him and he said, no, no, you're not going to, you're not going to clean lawns and gutters. You're coming back to work. And I was like, no, no, no, no. And he's like, no, you're not. So then he said, come and watch me work. And he, he was very, very, um, non-mainstream, what Tony was doing then. That was like, what was that around 2010? So about 13, 14 years ago.
00:20:41
Speaker
Tony was doing stuff that was for them like it was underground too but but really out there and yeah I was like blown away at what he was doing so that opened this gateway to like airway and dental work and I hung around with him for a couple years and I started teaching his stuff in the end and then I taught an osteopath and an osteopath
00:21:08
Speaker
was the guy that taught me cranial osteopathy. And then I was just kind of like at the point where I was, I was kind of lost my train of thought. Yeah, I was kind of at the point where I was like, people would say, well, what do you do? You know, I was like, well, I do breathing work and with kids mostly. And they'd be like, yeah, but what I, you know, like, I don't know,
00:21:37
Speaker
I was like, ah, I'm just gonna, no.
Osteopathy and Dental Collaboration
00:21:41
Speaker
And then George started teaching me in osteopathy and I was like, ah, I'm going to have to just bite the bullet and do this degree. So like at 38, I signed on to do five years of osteopathy training at university, which was interesting, but I got through that. Um, so that's, that's where I ended up.
00:22:05
Speaker
So now I work with a different like that. Tony passed away a few years back, but I work with a dentist and we, we, we literally work in the same room. We put appliances, we're into children. So we use like a removable, just like a growth guidance appliance, um, in children and we use some more complex, um,
00:22:30
Speaker
appliances in adults and we will literally work in the same room and I hold the person's head and Jalal puts the appliance into the mouth and I go, yep, no, no, we need all you need to adjust that. Can we try doing this? And then I'll be feeling what's actually happening to the person's system. So we're using dental appliances essentially to affect health. Like back to your first question.
00:22:55
Speaker
where maximizing, so the expression of vitality in cranial osteopathy is how well that cerebral spinal fluid, for want of a better word, how well it's moving, how well it's expressing, right? So when someone has low vitality, you feel their tissues and there's not much movement there, but someone like a kid comes in who's just like, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, what sort of kid? And then you go like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
00:23:24
Speaker
That's a measure of vitality, which is a measure of health. So I'm palpating people's deepest inner expressions of vitality all the time. So what we're doing is we're kind of using the ultimate biohack of using dental appliances to increase vitality. And so this is a pretty unique thing, especially having the two practitioners
00:23:52
Speaker
A, understanding each other, B, respecting each other, listening to each other, and then working for the benefit of the patient. So come back to St. Francis. Both of us have had journeys and that's what we're doing. We're here to help people. That's awesome. Great story. Fantastic. I love it. The goal when you're working with
00:24:20
Speaker
when both ears are working, it's to increase the vitality. So do people come in with the kind of seeking dental help or do they come in seeking osteopathy? What's kind of like, you know, is it all just, so kind of explain that maybe a little further. I think I might just be off a little bit here. Yeah. So you got to divide it into two segments. One is kids, which I'm like most passionate about because I think if, well, you know,
00:24:50
Speaker
We've got to the point, as you know, where our environment that we've constructed is so anti-health that you get kids that are having to grow up in that and adapt to that. And not all kids are doing that well in what we've created, like screens and crap food and poor sleep.
00:25:19
Speaker
busyness, you know, lack of time, all that sort of stuff. So we see a lot of kids with these, the symptoms or the secondary problems to this kind of lifestyle. So that would be kids that failing to thrive that have like real dark circles under their eyes and not sleeping properly with behavior issues, that kind of stuff.
00:25:47
Speaker
And they often go hand in hand with malocclusion. So they're like, well, their teeth aren't real straight, or their jaws are real narrow, or maybe they've got, we've read about tongue tie, and they think maybe they've got a tongue tie, and that's explaining their behavior, or they're snoring, or they're, you know, a big one at the moment with the breathing, it's the mouth breathing, like, oh, they're mouth breathing, and their mouth's hanging open all the time, that sort of stuff.
00:26:15
Speaker
Yeah, we see a lot of kids. We also see kids that have had like well-meaning treatment, but there's this whole piece in dentistry, functional dentistry at the moment called airway. So people are trying to expand the front of the face to try and get the airway in the middle of the sort of back of the skull front of the skull airways in the middle. Yeah. So they're trying to like expand the front of the face to get the airway.
00:26:45
Speaker
So we see a fair few kids that have had some stuff like that that hasn't worked out that well either. So, um, it's kind of, kind of a, that, that they're the sort of kids we'll see and the adults we'll see, uh, like a lot of post, orthodontic problems, jaw problems, headaches, neck pain, a lot of chronic issues, uh, and sleep, chronic sleep problems. Or we see the people that just want to maximize.
00:27:13
Speaker
you know, that they're like, well, you know, I'm looking for the ultimate, you know, I'm looking for way better health. So people are on that, on that train, on that pathway, seeking like way, way better health. Um, we do see a fair few of those people too. Yeah. So that's, that's, that's the kind of demographic we serve. Um, I like doing the kids cause the kids are more fun. I'm a bit of a big kid myself. So, um,
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I like that. Um, so, so with the mouth, right.
Holistic Myofunctional Therapy
00:27:54
Speaker
Um, I know like a big topic nowadays, real popular is like mewing. And like you said, like the people are doing that facial expansion. I've seen people do thumb pulling and things like that. And the mewing is a big one. And.
00:28:07
Speaker
So what are your thoughts on stuff like that, like little practices that you put in your daily life? Is that helpful or, you know, are you seeing people who come in and are like, well, listen, it's just not getting the results I want? Well, typically they'll end up somewhere like seeing us cause they're not getting the results they want. I guess we see a bit of a skewed population, but my view, what he's talking about essentially is my functional therapy.
00:28:33
Speaker
So we learned, him and I, we essentially learned that off the same person, which was this, this dear, dear lady called Sandra Coulson, who lives in Danvo, Colorado. She must be, I don't know, she is now in her eighties and she still travels and teaches and she still runs like three clinics. And she's like, no way.
00:28:57
Speaker
She's in terms of longevity. Yeah, you could use sustainability there. Yeah, it's just comes down to one thing, loving, loving what you do that she loves what she does. So she, she was doing this stuff in like, like the 70s, I think, I can't remember it after I asked her, but she just was doing speech therapy, speech pathology, and she, she was a gymnast and a dancer and
00:29:26
Speaker
She was like, well, what about these muscles? Like no one's training these muscles. So she kind of got on to figuring out different ways of training the muscles themselves in the face. And then she started seeing like some crazy results and crazy changes. So she was getting together with a bunch of other people and it became what they called oral myology and then
00:29:53
Speaker
gradually change into something called myofunctional therapy or orophacial myofunctional therapy to be right. So orophacial is obvious, myo means muscle, functioning muscle therapy. So it's this big complicated name for basically doing funny faces. But the premise of it is actually quite effective because
00:30:16
Speaker
about 40% of the brain's motor nervous system. So like your motor nervous system, your movement system. So if I want to move my arm, I move my arm. It's voluntary. Some of this stuff is involuntary. Yeah. But some of it is also voluntary. So that 40% of the output of the brain, like when you pick up some food and you start chewing on it, like
00:30:41
Speaker
That's a, you decide how much to chew and then when to swallow and all that sort of stuff, yeah. So these are complex procedures for the body because you've got the potential to be non-compatible with life if you don't chew enough. Makes sense? You know, you choke, or you're breathing, or you're speaking, you know, these things are critical to sustainability, to sustaining longevity.
00:31:11
Speaker
You could say so that they're important functions. So what the point is these muscles around the face and the sensory feedback loops that come back into the brain from that area are super, super highly innovated. Yeah. In other words, that's a lot of neural feedback coming to into the brain from those spot, those places. So when you train those muscles, they're highly responsive.
00:31:41
Speaker
And so if you've been, say, a mouth breather with your mouth open, your tongue down, you know, that that creates low tongue tone. It creates poor lip tone. It puts the jaw in the wrong spot. It changes your breathing, which changes the length tension on your neck muscles and your chest muscles and the way the feedback loops work with your rib cage and blah, blah, blah. There's a cascade of effects. Right. So I've taken kids who just before I even
00:32:10
Speaker
had osteopathy, I was just training kids breathing. And I did extraordinary results in kids' lives just by teaching them a simple breathing program. Like when I think about it, it was crazy, really, like some of the changes we got in kids just from doing something so basic. So the point of my functional therapy is that that,
00:32:40
Speaker
let's rewind for sex. Some of those children that I was training, I couldn't fully finish because they just didn't have the strength and the tongue position. So I had to go and learn that stuff that my functional therapy of Sandy. Um, and then I was like, okay, now there's another layer and then I learned cranial osteopathy. I was like, oh man, there's a whole another layer to this. Um, but
00:33:04
Speaker
The point of the mewing in the myofungal therapy is yeah, it gets high leverage. It gets things done. Like you'll get good changes in health by working on those muscles if their function is aberrant. But there's another component to it, which is the thing that those muscles are sitting on, which is your skull, your bones.
00:33:32
Speaker
So that's where my kind of worldview comes in, which is if there's a cranial strain. So a cranial strain is like a compression and then a sort of rotation or an asymmetry that occurs for various reasons in the skull bones. Yeah. So sometimes you'll get compensations, functional compensations for those strains. And that's where you start to not
00:34:02
Speaker
get the results with something like mewing or live functional therapy or even breathing retraining or even dentistry. You know, so people go in and they start, you know, pushing and expanding their maxillars and all this sort of stuff. And if the back of the head, because cranial growth actually comes from the back of the head, right? As the brain grows, it grows the skull and that actually helps drift the face forward. So that
00:34:29
Speaker
So if you just work on the face only, you miss the back of the head, you're missing like 60, 70% of the actual issue. Yeah. So yeah, myofunctional therapy, mewing to face exercises, they don't always overcome those strains so people can move back into pattern. So what you can see, and I've seen this before with even colleagues and they've sat down and they're speech pathologists and they do a lot of their training.
00:34:57
Speaker
And they go, oh, like, can you just, can you have a look at a couple of cases that we're stuck with? Like we've, we've done, like this guy, he's gone this far and they showed me the pictures and stuff. And he, he definitely improved. Like his face looked heaps better. You know, just square a strong guy. His symptoms were getting better, but they weren't gone away. And I said, yeah, well that's cause he's got a sphenoid strain. They're like, what? How do you know? I was like, can't you see the eyes?
00:35:27
Speaker
So he had this quite symmetrical, muscular face, but his eyes were like this, you know? And so that, the Svenoy, which is a boat that runs right through the middle of the face here, when that's on an angle like that, you can see one eye and eyebrow higher than the other. And that throws the temples with it. So you see the ears different. I said, like that. It's plain as day. He's got a massive crane in Australia. This guy was like a military pilot. So he was subject to like huge forces through the sky.
00:35:57
Speaker
And so that's why they couldn't fully win. Yeah. So it's like when, when you, if you're into face exercises and a lot of people really are like they're really, really into them, you know, the people I come across. What's it saying? Like when, when, when you, only tool you have is a hammer, everything's a nail, right? So I do a lot of woodworking sometimes when you need a planer, you don't want a hammer. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:27
Speaker
I don't have a bull toolbox either. So other people do. So I refer out to a lot of people as well. Like one of my best mates works around the corner and he, he does a lot of functional exercise. I used to do that stuff, but he's way better at it than me. And I only have a small room and I just hold the heads and then I just send them to him for the exercise stuff. So yeah, you need to go and see Mitch, go and see Mitch. And he thrives on that, you know? So, so it's, it's important to,
00:36:56
Speaker
to understand the context, especially like that's what I was saying about trends and stuff. I was alluding to before, you know, like there's lots and lots of hacks and you know, as well as the ice bath or whether it's the mewing or whether it's the tape in the mouth, you know, which these things do you actually need and which one's going to create the best leverage for you right now to be able to sustain that. Yeah. Awesome. Dude, that makes,
00:37:27
Speaker
It's like everything's just coming together. Honestly, like everything is really coming together. It's amazing. Like, um, and I liken it to the idea. Like I used to try and train my calves a lot in the gym back when I was like, you know, go doing the, those five day splits and you know, I'd never trained my tibialis muscles, right? So I was training like one side and be like training your biceps without training your triceps. That's what I'm thinking here now. It's like everyone's so focused on the mewing. Now, if they already, if they're okay in the rest of their, like their
00:37:57
Speaker
you know, cranium, their head, right? May not cause as much issues, right? But like all you see, all you hear about is the mewing and it's all focused on the front, right? And I don't know, I think this is extremely valuable and it's honestly a perspective I've never heard of before. That's really amazing. Like it's really coming together here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we go deeper on that, you know, it's just that the actual bones are different. So the bones are the front of the face, the cartilaginous.
00:38:25
Speaker
So they're actually more malleable than, especially when you're younger than the ones in the back there. They come from membranous bones so that the back bone, the back of the head is actually a denser bone, which is again, why you can win here, but why you won't always win if there's a problem with the high density stuff in the back here. Yeah.
Modern Challenges and Osteopathy
00:38:46
Speaker
And then you'll probably want to know, well, how do you treat that? Of course.
00:38:54
Speaker
You just sit in a little room like this and hold people's heads and pray. There's specific ways of doing it, but it's too hard to explain on a podcast. But there are ways of doing it and you got to find yourself a crane and lost your path or otherwise. I mean, I was talking to one yesterday, someone on LinkedIn, she was sending me heaps of messages.
00:39:24
Speaker
She was in Canada, Alberta, I think. So there's one, she gets it, she works with the dentist. So yeah, you gotta find someone like that. So we're like these weird practitioners that sit in like tiny little rooms and I don't even have a sign. I just literally ordered a sign the other day. I've been in this room for a year and I don't have a sign. People are like, well, you don't have a sign. Oh yeah, sorry about that. Getting around to it, getting around to it.
00:39:56
Speaker
I'm busy as. And so yeah, you find these crane osteopaths working away. Um, and we do like really specific work. It's in, in that sort of spectrum of, um, you know, like everyone's working in their own sort of silo. It's, it's a really specific kind of thing. It takes a while to learn. So you just kind of sit there and feel the rhythm and then basically try and
00:40:23
Speaker
get the rhythm to express itself better. You have to be humble. You have to be willing to accept that the body is the person that you're treating is a, what's the word? Like, you know, in the Bible it says God made man, made humans in his image. That's what essentially, like if you take away the patriarchal meaning to that,
00:40:53
Speaker
and basically go, each human is an expression of the divine. Let's look at it that way. That's what I'm talking with cranial osteopathy. The CSF, they used to say is the seed of the soul. It's like Sutherland said that. Cerebral spinal fluid is the seed of the soul. So when you're working with that fluid, you're working as close to someone's, you know, divine essence, their soul, their uniqueness as possible.
00:41:23
Speaker
So that's why you have to be humble to do that work. You have to be able to acknowledge that it's not the practitioner fixing something. That's a big piece like, oh, I fixed, you know, I fixed this guy and I fixed that guy. No, nobody fixed anything. That person's body fixed itself, healed itself. The body has an inherent capacity to heal. So you give it the right environment
00:41:51
Speaker
for that person and it heals itself. It's like, oh Bob Worcester and the lobster lady, you know, that's their environment. That's what, that's their ideal, you know, situation for them to, for the body to continually heal themselves and continually regenerate. It was probably drinking a liter of raw milk a day straight out of the car. Probably, yeah.
00:42:21
Speaker
That's so cool. Yeah. So, you know, and, and the other thing too is with the osteo and you know, you could definitely speak to this, but from my observations with working with practitioners is that it's not like, um, it's not like Cairo or massage where it's like, you need to do it all the time for the rest of your life. Like the vibe that I get is very much like,
00:42:46
Speaker
You know, I've been, I've seen two different ones so far, one that was more focused on the cranial work, cranial sacral therapy is what they were talking about. And the other one was a lot more bodywork. I have had amazing results with both. Um, but they both kicked me out after, you know what I mean? Like they're both like, you're done. This is like, you don't need anymore. They say, you know, you can come back if you feel like you need it. Right. But they really put the power in my hands, which I really appreciate. And like you said, they're like, that's something that I.
00:43:17
Speaker
Um, we've mentioned a couple of times on the podcast, right? It's all, it's all individual, like the individual is healing itself. It's, um, the practitioners there to help if anything, right? Like, um, so yeah, I think that's a really important perspective and one that I like to hear from people that I work with is something that really resonates with me. And, um, but yeah, I think that's really cool. So, you know, osteopathy, you know, when I think of.
00:43:46
Speaker
like the necessity for it now, I think the need for osteopathy really came about because of our lifestyles now. I would assume, and maybe you have accounts of this or know more about this than me, but I would assume that somebody living in a primitive environment wouldn't need osteopathy because they're living in accordance with the proper mechanisms of life. This is my assumption here.
00:44:16
Speaker
like when you see like Weston A. Price's work, obviously those living the native way had the proper dental structure and all his observations there. I wonder if you could speak to that at all. Yeah, well, you see, I don't know about this. I don't know about this primitive philosophy piece.
00:44:43
Speaker
Cause I don't know, I don't know really how healthy those people were. Yeah. Like they didn't have much longevity. Sure. You know, were they really that healthy? Were they really that well adjusted? They were often knocking each other on their head and you know,
00:45:13
Speaker
Like we have this utopia about, about this primitive thing. And I think like we live in a pretty good time now really. Like I'm talking to you on the internet, like we're sharing ideas, you know, we can get pretty good food. I just got some spring water, you know, that's brought down and pumped into the office and you know, like pretty damn cushy. We can drive around in our cars and
00:45:42
Speaker
you know, go long distances where they are destroying our bodies. And you know, like if you're someone does become incapacitated for whatever reason, they can be looked after and not kicked out. You know, I don't know. I don't know how I know about that whole philosophy. Um, were they in harmony with the, with the circadian cycle? Yeah. You know, and with seasons and with, um,
00:46:11
Speaker
a lot more probably with nature, depending on who it is, like so the indigenous people are the first nations of here and also, you know, in Canada, like those type of traditions, I think were super in tune with, with, with nature in harmony with nature and could read nature and literally talk to nature and
00:46:35
Speaker
how to initiate ancient processes through nature. I think some of that stuff is way healthier than what we have today. Western A price, you know, like, yeah, these books called nutrition and physical degeneration. Obviously everyone knows that, but is it just nutrition? Do you reckon? Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree.
00:47:03
Speaker
Because if you take a twin, there's more than just that. Yeah, because he was looking at twins, right? So if you take a twin who's grown up in a traditional society and then you put them in to a westernized society, yeah, they're eating crappier food, but what else is there? Like they're not getting the sunlight, but also like if you take a twin, you separate them from their other twin and put them in a really crowdy environment, they're under a huge amount of emotional stress.
00:47:34
Speaker
And I don't know, like I ended up not really like confessions and I bought the book because everyone had to buy the book and I didn't really read the whole book and I gave it away. So I don't know. Does he go into the emotional component, the stress component in that book? You know what? No, he does not. And that's actually a big criticism of his work that I've heard of this area. And, you know, the idea that it's not necessarily just the nutrients that's playing a role, right? Like it's obviously,
00:48:04
Speaker
you know, that, that was his focus, right? So that's all that was really talked about was the nutrients and the vitamin A and maybe the vitamin D and eventually getting into the cod liver oil, which is a big trend. Um, but yeah, it was not like the emphasis on community, what aspect that would have, or just the lifestyle factors, right? Like, can we do those jaws growing too? What about chewing? Because, because, um,
00:48:34
Speaker
As you move your jaws and your mouth, it pulls on the muscles and the muscles pull on the bone and that creates a lot of the growth, creating a facial growth. So if they were, I don't know if they were kids when they were taken and put into these societies, I'm assuming they were younger. Well, they would have had like way softer food and way less chewing and been under stress and not breathing properly.
00:49:00
Speaker
Well, there you go. That's a recipe before you even talk about the food. Yeah. The food is important. Not denying that, but there's other factors, you know, it's a multifactorial thing. So, so yeah, it was the, was the primitive society. It depends. I guess it depends how you define it, how long ago and where and what you've been under. Were they necessarily healthier? Maybe, maybe not.
00:49:29
Speaker
There's things that we can take. We'll say it this way, our bodies grew and adapted to live under certain conditions. I think this is the key, the crux to that whole philosophy or that whole lens. And the way we're living now is progressed at such a rapid rate that our bodies can't
00:49:57
Speaker
for want of a better word, evolutionarily, if that's a word, evolutionarily catch up to that environment that we're pushed ourselves into.
Movement vs. Sedentary Lifestyles
00:50:08
Speaker
So we go back to, okay, what were those people doing? Eating whole foods, being exposed to sunlight, going to sleep when it's dark. These are the basics premises of health. It's simple stuff at the end of the day. If you can't recognize the food,
00:50:28
Speaker
You probably don't eat it. When the sun goes down, go to sleep. When the sun goes up, get up, move your body, drink water that's not stagnant. Pretty basic stuff. Is that foundations for health? Well, probably if you took someone who had no idea of health
00:50:57
Speaker
per se, and you started coaching. It was probably the one and some of the first stuff you do, hopefully. And so that's what those people were doing. So that's why they had good jaws and good structure. Yeah. Yeah. And I always think too, actually, this has been a topic that's come up a few times in the social media, like just being indoors.
00:51:25
Speaker
versus being outdoors. You know, you mentioned drinking and running water. I think stagnant air is one of the biggest problems. And I think it contributes to our poor facial development too, right? If your sinuses are going to be inflamed or full of mucus, it's a lot harder to breathe through them, right? So I think that's a huge factor, right? That Weston A. Price, you know, probably could have talked about too, right? So there was a lot that was missed there, but yeah, I think that's a big part of it. Yeah. Stagnant fluid in the body, you know,
00:51:54
Speaker
I think you're right. I don't know, do you live in a house or apartment? It feels, yeah. In a house, yeah. I go to Sydney a lot for work, which is a big city. I don't live in a big city. I live in the country. And so you go and stay on the sixth floor or something like that in a little tiny box.
00:52:24
Speaker
And there's an air conditioner unit, you can't open the windows. It's like we're in a hotel or something. But literally like the carbon dioxide in that, that's why I kept opening this door up because I was like, whoa, can't breathe in here because in a small room carbon dioxide levels literally rise up, right? And so if you're essentially poisoning yourself, so I don't know,
00:52:54
Speaker
how people live in these apartments on the 10th floor and 20th floor in these little boxes and just run aircon all day long. I can't, I can't do it. But yeah, of course you're going to end up with stagnant fluid in your, in your airways. You know, your body is trying to clean itself constantly of this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. Like I cannot sleep without airflow.
00:53:21
Speaker
Like if I sleep in a stuffy room, I just like have the worst sleep. I have to have air flow. I have to have a door open even though it's colder. Yeah. No. And well, the two times I'd been the most sick in my life was my first year university where I stayed in the res. And obviously my habits were really poor, but you know, it was just a little room, right? And I was living with my, one of my best buddies there.
00:53:51
Speaker
in the same room anyways the other time was the next year and we were living in the apartment together again with another fella same thing couldn't open the windows and uh yeah it just got stagnant over time funny enough i just went on a cruise actually with my family and uh you know the room we were staying in had no window and i'll tell you it was a tough week it was difficult right there was not not only were we not getting light in the morning and i know light through a window is different but
00:54:20
Speaker
at least getting the perception of light in the morning. I have to wake up and run to the rooftop just to get some sun. But anyways, it was challenging. It was challenging and definitely did not feel up to snuff there. It was congested to say the least. And I think you hit the nail on the head there. You said your body's trying to clean itself out. Well, if the air, stagnant air is not filtered, right? It's not filtering itself. It's not cleaning itself.
00:54:48
Speaker
going to get trapped in your lungs. Right. It's, it's not, it's not native. That's not native. Right. I'll take that perspective. You know, stagnant air is not something that's natural. Right. Until recently where we've really had our houses closed off, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, stagnation at still with founder of osteopathy said, show me stagnation. I'll show you the basis of disease. Yeah.
00:55:16
Speaker
That's exactly what you're talking about because, um, you know, think about why you're asleep, you know, about the glymphatic system. So the, the glymphatic is then given to the lymphatics fluids, traveling up into the brain while you're asleep, they clean your brain off, stop you from getting plaques like Alzheimer's, like forming, you know, neurodegenerative forming, um,
00:55:42
Speaker
plaques and problems. So your lymphatics travel up in the brain, they clean all that crap out and then they drain out before you wake up. Well, what happens if you congested? What happens if your whole skull is compressed and strained and twisted for want of a better word? It's not quite the right word, but what happens is you minimize that drainage. And so then you end up like,
00:56:08
Speaker
puffy and snotty and coughing in the morning and all that sort of stuff, feeling like crap now. This happens a lot to kids. So we see, as I said, we see a lot of kids and they're not draining properly. You get them draining properly all of a sudden their vitality goes up. Why? Because you're decreasing that stagnation. You know, the other big phrase in osteopathy is life is motion. So you're right on and you're right on there about the,
00:56:37
Speaker
primitive thing because that it was like it's basically like move or die you know like if you just want to sit there and go you know what I'm just gonna crack a beer I'm not gonna go hunting today it's like well there's about 20 people that just you know are relying on you to go hunting so you better move your sorry ass and get out there you know
00:57:00
Speaker
Yeah. Like we just don't have that. Oh, it might go down the market. In Texas, you know, when you go into the supermarket and it's like all the trolleys lined up and you can just grab your trolley and you go in and all that in there, they had all the trolleys lined up and then they had all the, the mobility carts lined up for the people. Yeah. Yeah. So that just like staggered into the thing and then jump on this
00:57:30
Speaker
little car drive around the supermarket. I'm like, holy crap. Wow. Like there was about five or six of them lined up. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's pretty standard too in North America at least. Well, yeah. Like get in there, walk around. That's it. Like that's, that's the level. So that's, that's there. There's where the primitive argument comes in. Right. So, so life is motion.
00:57:58
Speaker
and modern life is stagnation, isn't it? Like here we are sitting, like if you sit for longer than 30 minutes, which is happening to us right now, it's happening to me. I know you're really younger than me. I'm like 47. How old are you? 23. 23? Man, you're one of those guys I was talking about before that can just do anything.
00:58:25
Speaker
But focus on the longevity though, at least. That's easy when you're 23. I'm starting to get the freaking eye thing, man. Like, that's really pissing me off. You know, like when you get real small text and you're like, I have to do that. Like pushing it away from me. Shit. Oh man. That would happen to me. But, um, yeah, maybe that whole life is
00:58:56
Speaker
is motion principle is really the crux of the paleo or primitive argument versus modern life. So that's what I was talking about. After half an hour of sitting, you actually make inflammatory cytokines in your joints, in your body. And so after half an hour of sitting, you start to get a signal and the back is sore.
00:59:24
Speaker
well, my ass is sore, you know? And that's because those inflammatory cytokines are activating what we call the nocireceptors, the pain receptors, and they're telling you to get the fuck up, right? To stand up and move, right? But like, oh, well, I can't because I'm at work, you know? And we sit, someone sit there for eight hours a day, not moving, you know? And then they go huddling, and then they sit, and they eat, and they sit in the bus or their car,
00:59:54
Speaker
And they sit and watch the TV and then they lie down and there's this like pure, like all the fluids, all the, the, the, the joint beds and all that stuff. It's all supposed to move and be moving constantly. Yes, it's supposed to relax as well. But even like just something I learned the other day, simple stuff, like your shoulder hangs down like this all day, right? Like hangs down your body in gravity. But when, when we sleep,
01:00:24
Speaker
where instead of using soft fluffy pillows, we're supposed to use our arms. So then our arm gets in the opposite position for eight odd hours in the day. So then the shoulder capsule stays healthy. Isn't that interesting? But it's like, it's uncomfortable. I don't want to give up my pillows. Yeah. That's so soft.
01:00:49
Speaker
You know, it's just, you know, like all that, you know, what it's like with cold exposure and all that. I mean, I hate doing that stuff, but I know it makes me feel better. Hmm. Yeah. You never regret it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess, um, maybe we could touch on sleep in a little
Sleep Hygiene in Modern Times
01:01:09
Speaker
bit, right? Like, you know, the soft and it's funny, everything's soft, everything's soft. Like you said, like user.
01:01:15
Speaker
down there you say go into the grocery store and you may as well walk around, right? We're real soft over in North America. I'll say that and I've traveled a little bit recently and you could certainly see over in Europe there, it's a whole different group of people, right? You don't have the same, you have different problems I think, but you don't have the same rates of disease and obesity and stuff like that. But the cities aren't even set up
01:01:45
Speaker
in the same way as they are here. Like, um, you know, it's very, everything's very walkable. Everybody does walk for the most part. Right. And, um, yeah, definitely. You only see the obese people at tourist sites, but in Europe, they ride bikes a lot. Yeah, bikes too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. A lot more moving, but yeah. So sleeping, you know, I,
01:02:11
Speaker
I've been trying to figure this out too and I've asked a lot of people, right? So is sleeping on your back, you've mentioned this on your arm over the head. That's interesting one too. Like, you know, what kind of is a hard mattress better? I would assume so, but, but maybe some little tips on that. Yeah. Well, I hate those soft mattresses. Like at the moment, like I do travel a little bit too and you go to Airbnb and it's really,
01:02:39
Speaker
popular to have this or hotels were popular to have this ridiculously soft mattress that you just like, Oh no, here we go. I'm going to have a bad night's sleep already. I know. Yeah. Affirm a mattress. Definitely for me, my mind is better.
Cranial Osteopathy and Health Benefits
01:03:00
Speaker
Um, sleeping on the floor. I don't, I don't sleep too bad on the floor. Um,
01:03:06
Speaker
In fact, when I have those ludicrously soft mattresses, I'll just like fold the quilt over and put it on the floor because I can't stand sleeping like a banana. It is important, but really like sleep quality is really critical. And so that starts with your sleep, what they call sleep hygiene. You familiar with that phrase?
01:03:36
Speaker
Yeah, so that's like making sure you got airflow, making sure that before you go to bed, all overhead lights are off. They're starting to kill me now. The sun's come up. Making sure that you're in a dark environment before you go to sleep, making sure you're not on your phone and on the computer.
01:04:00
Speaker
which, you know, we all do, but still it's important to try not to do that. Yeah. Make it joy, emotionally calm, making sure you're not, you haven't had like some sort of cake or sweet thing, you know, um, all those things feed into the sleep hygiene, which set yourself up. And then when you're asleep, I mean, it's something I struggled with.
01:04:28
Speaker
myself personally for a long time. And that's to do with structure actually. It's to do with the skull and those birth strains that I was telling you about. So it's kind of like, you know, when the healer heal thyself, like we tend to find the things that we need as people. And then oftentimes we become the practitioner of that.
01:04:56
Speaker
if you're so inclined. So for me, actually, cranial osteopathy is that. It's something that I should have had when I was a kid, because I look at photos of me as a baby and I can pick all the strains now. And I'm like, far out. They said I used to cry a lot, no wonder, because I would have had a headache constantly.
01:05:16
Speaker
Like I had terrible shocking birth strains. And so they kind of set me up for like sleep disorder, breathing, sleep apnea, snoring, that sort of stuff. So as a kid, like I used to wake up just totally screwed. Like I'd wake up just like, I completely unrested, really tired, like didn't want to get out of bed. Um, I would sleep till 11 or 12 as a kid, if, if I was allowed to.
01:05:45
Speaker
If I was left, I'd just be like, well, I remember Dad taking care of me and Mum was away and he brought me a cup of tea at like 6.30 because he always made two cups of tea. So he made one for me instead of Mum. And he dumped it and I was like, oh, thanks. And I put it on the windowsill and woke up at 11. Like for a 12, 13 year old, 14 year old kid, that's worrying. That's an alarm.
01:06:14
Speaker
is that you wake up at seven and then just fall back asleep and wake up at 11 a.m. Like it's almost in the middle of the day. Well, that's what sleep disorder breathing does to you. So making sure that by day you've done your breathing work and that your breathing pattern is good and that your nose breathing and that your tongue's in the right spot, there's the viewing, you know, and strong and sitting on the top of your mouth and that you've
01:06:43
Speaker
you can breathe slow and deep. That's really important to sleep as well. Um, cause obviously like, and then you've got the drainage, like I said, so you've got the lymphatics running up and you've got the drainage. So one of the things that we do, uh, Delilah and I do in the dentistry is we make, um, what, uh, uh, what we call a pivot splint. So we have,
01:07:08
Speaker
Basically, this is going back to that guy, original member, was telling the story about the guy that I referred to. He said, no, you're not doing maintenance. Yeah, well, he spent a long time figuring all this bizarre stuff out and they found out that essentially, a bit like the Ayurvedic body typing systems, you know, where you've got the, help me out, Pitta.
01:07:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think one more. Yeah, yeah, basically found this out in terms of colors. So so we have red, green and blue in our eyes. These colors for the video are held up the colors. And and basically, people have a predominance, a dominant color type, red, green and blue. And then what he found was that we all grind our teeth
01:08:08
Speaker
according to our primary color type. So there's a specific pattern for the red primaries, a specific pattern for the greens and a specific pattern for the blues. So what we do with our little splints is we devise certain contacts on certain teeth that alleviate the cranial pressure or compression in that person.
01:08:36
Speaker
And so what I do is I wear these little red, I'm a red primary. I wear the pivots at night. So when I, if I do clench down, what actually happens is, and I've tested this now by feeling people's heads, is it actually decompresses the skull. So it allows for that fluid flow and stuff. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's one of the, one of our key kind of cornerstones of treating
01:09:06
Speaker
particularly those chronically ill individuals seeking our help six to nine months on these pivots. And I'd had them like 10 odd years ago and then I showed Jalal the system and he's like, yeah, I can do that. Like he's a real smart practitioner. He picks things up like crazy quick and he understands them. Literally like embody understands not just the intellectual. And he's like, yeah, we can do that. And anyway, he made me a set.
01:09:36
Speaker
I was one of the first sort of issues of pivots and I put, I put them in and my body, I just went like this. So immediate like relaxation. So that that's another to deal with, you know, this modern environment, stuff like that, um, can make a huge difference, but other types of appliances can actually lock that mechanism up.
01:10:04
Speaker
And so that's the beauty of what we do is I'm feeling whether or not the mechanism is being locked up or not. And he's making sure that it fits the mouth, but I can tell you straight away, no, that's not working. Or that is working. So that's really important because if the dental appliances is locking up the cranium and you go to sleep, you miss all that drainage
01:10:33
Speaker
you've struggled to breathe and you may as well just be in a windowless room. Yeah. That's awesome. That's really cool. Yeah. The osteo like using the osteopathy osteopathy to get that feedback, to really read the body. And I like that. That's really cool. Really, really cool. So one final note, one final thing I want to bring up is, uh, cause I talked about this on my Instagram, uh, mouth tape.
Mouth Taping and Breath Awareness
01:11:00
Speaker
Like is it the solution? I kind of like, I guess I'll share a little bit of what I think. Um, and please, uh, she grabbed me with your, with your knowledge, please. Because, um, you know, I think it's not, it's not a long-term solution, but I think in extreme cases it could be beneficial because you see from my, from what I've read is that you really can see the detriment of breathing through your mouth. So if you can,
01:11:29
Speaker
stop it. I think that's helpful, but I want to hear your thoughts on that. I don't think it's a long-term solution. I think you should definitely wean off it, but yeah, definitely. I want to hear what you have to say there. Well, I think you're right about that. It's not a long-term solution because you have to straight away ask the question, why are you breathing through your mouth?
01:11:58
Speaker
So why is that? Can you tell me a few of the reasons why people will be through the mouth at night? Yeah, probably poor posture, poor facial structure. I don't know, I would say stagnant air is another one that I've kind of, I'm thinking that is a problem. Yeah. Yeah. So those two out of three of those pretty easy to fix, open a window and get a little bit stronger and move your body. Yeah.
01:12:27
Speaker
One of the main reasons is obstruction, essentially. So if your nose is blocked, then you're going to want to breathe through the mouth, right? So if you then take your mouth, you've then just kind of taped up the sort of idiot override system. Yeah, well put. Yeah.
01:12:53
Speaker
And so that your body's actually, to be honest, like all jokes aside, your body's actually really then struggling to breathe. Okay. So if you then force that, um, it's kind of like what's coming to me is like a picture of a busy freeway. And then there's someone in over there would be the left lane over here. It's the right lane in the fast lane going like,
01:13:22
Speaker
60 kilometers an hour, you know, when it's supposed to be 110, it just, it just screws up the, like four kilometers, it screws up the whole flow of traffic, right? So forcing yourself to be that car in the slow lane when everything is going fast. Does that make sense? Definitely. Yeah. It's what the R-Paping does.
01:13:51
Speaker
because your body actually wants to probably rev the system a bit to keep you alive. So what happening is when you mount tape, then you actually start increasing pressure in the pulmonary system. You actually start increasing, it's called pulmonary hypertension. So by forcing and laboring breathing, you actually start to create tension and that can create tension on the heart.
01:14:21
Speaker
Yeah. So then the real scaremongers will say, well that could lead to right side heart failure, but you'd have to do it for a long, long time. That results actually with mouth taping where the O2 sats drop right down, which is also really dangerous. Yeah. So the point is if the, if there's a problem at that end and you've got your mouth hanging wide open or you're snoring, whatever,
01:14:50
Speaker
Like what is going on there? And one of the main things that occurs is a lack of what we call intraoral volume, which is where these airway guys get excited. So your jaw mandible size should be, is kind of mirror of your tongue size. Yeah. So you've got a medium sized mandible jaw.
01:15:16
Speaker
And so your tongue will be medium sized. So you want your dental arches, the arch of the width of your mouth to be kind of medium sized to match that tongue. Yeah. So the tongue should fit into the oral cavity. If the oral cavity is narrow, the tongue is looking for room. And what tends to happen is it'll tend to drop to the back of the airway, the back of the throat, back of the pharynx or posteriorly a little bit, let's say,
01:15:45
Speaker
in order to try and find space. But then that then impedes your airway a little bit, which is probably okay when you're upright, but when you're supine and you're sleeping, that creates problems. So that's often one of the big drivers. So then if you then tape your mouth and then you really make, you're really forcing your body to work pretty hard.
01:16:11
Speaker
But that said, if you don't have some of those issues and it's simply a functional habitual thing and you take your mouth and you go, Oh my God, I feel terrific for doing that. Then that's simple. You just got to retrain your breathing. That takes about two months to do and you'll feel a lot better. I mean, that's what I did, man. Like, so I was like 34 and I found all this stuff out. So I went on a course, this dentist was talking about breathing. He put up the symptoms so that kids that don't breathe well,
01:16:40
Speaker
I was like, holy crap, that's me. Like now, but also as a kid, that was me. I was like, it's one of those moments where you just have a blinding flash, the obvious. That's why I'm passionate about helping kids. Cause I grew up like sick. Although I was apparently like on the outside, I was healthy, but I grew up really sick. Um, and, and, uh, what was I saying?
01:17:10
Speaker
It's early in the morning here. Yeah. Working with kids and, oh, you were on the. Before that. Breathing, I'm breathing to recreature. What happened was I went on that course, went on that course, realized that was me. And then I went back and I was like, well, okay. I looked at what?
01:17:33
Speaker
They were doing what we call pacing, which is like getting kids to hold their breath and walk around the room. I don't personally love that as a breathing retraining, but I took that idea of increasing CO2 and retaining it. So that's basically like exercising while nose breathing, and I love that. If you can't go for like a 5K run at a moderate pace, just only nose breathing, teach yourself to do it.
01:18:02
Speaker
If you're lifting in the gym and you just teach yourself to nose breathe while you lift, that's the best thing you can do. So it's essentially what I did and I retrained my breathing because we used to live at the top of about 300 stairs. I lived on an Island at that time. So we drive the boat and then be about 300 steps to the house. So whatever I was carrying, I decided to nose breathe. So if it was a,
01:18:30
Speaker
a backpack and a light backpack or like a whole wardrobe. Like he still had to hold up these steps right off the boat. So I do that nose breathing and then within a couple of months I'd retrain my breathing and then well, like then I could start to think properly. I had more energy. Like it was totally transformational. Um, it was wild how much better I felt.
01:18:56
Speaker
So rather than, yeah, you might take your mouth and go, wow, I feel better. Well, that's an indicate really good sign that you can do some breathing retraining and you'll be sweet ass. Yeah. If you take your mouth, go like, oh, I hate this and I come and you rip it off and you, you know, you wake up like feeling scared or whatever. That's a sign that you got something else going on. Sure. Yeah. So it always comes down to why like the body is not silly. The body,
01:19:25
Speaker
has opened your mouth and it's snoring for a reason. It's functional. It's actually a functional adaptation. Well, this honestly, um, is, uh, I think extremely valuable just because I see the shift, you see the shift in the young people too now, right?
Interconnected Bodily Health
01:19:47
Speaker
With the mewing and the, they call it the looks maxing and stuff like that. And you're saying, tape your mouth and wear the nasal strips and pull your,
01:19:55
Speaker
Well, I don't know if that's some good or not, but you know, like I'm sure it's, you know, it's really understanding. I think the point that I want to highlight here is understanding that it's more than just the front. Like you were mentioning, it's everything, right? If you're going to, and it's not even just the head, right? It's not even just neck up, you know, it's the whole body. Everything is connected. Right. So, um, just isolating that one thing. It's like, if you go do bicep curls every day, you know, for the next couple of years.
01:20:23
Speaker
Well, you're probably gonna end up developing some problems, right? So if you're just training your jaw and you're not training the back or you're not training the neck or whatever it may be properly, you know, I think something to consider at least. Something to consider. And you get me wrong either. Like I'm not a grumpy old man sitting here saying like, you know, it's all bad, bad, bad because you brought one thing about you younger crew, which I love.
01:20:53
Speaker
is that, you know, back when I was 23, it was all about rugby and drinking beer and, you know, we didn't give a shit what we ate, you know, but there's this whole crew of younger people like yourself in their 20s that are embodying the wisdom of health, right? And doing these practices and eating real clean and moving and
01:21:23
Speaker
and being conscious of white and being conscious of spirituality, like wow, you know, like I love that. I love that there's people like yourself out there doing this stuff and popularizing it and talking about it in a sensible way and asking questions. It's just awesome, man. So thanks for the work that you're doing. I'm not just like Mr Grumpy old dude sitting here.
01:21:49
Speaker
I'm really respectful. No, you're not giving that vibe off at all. Don't worry. No, that's great. Hey, listen, I really appreciate you coming on. I really think this is extremely valuable. I wish I could have everyone listen to this episode also because it's been really enlightening for me and I'm sure for a lot of people. Cool, man. Thank you. Pleasure to chat. Yeah, great.
01:22:13
Speaker
And I just want you to take a moment and share maybe how some people could reach you and find the work that you're doing, if they can work with you or things like that. Oh, yeah. It's a bit hard to work with me if you're not down here. But what I do have is actually, this might appeal to a lot of people listening, is I have a really comprehensive course
01:22:40
Speaker
online course because you've got to have an online course. Everyone's got an online course. I'm still waiting to make all those multi-millions of dollars from it though. That'll come in. Cool. Now that I've been on your show. But actually what it is, I got really sick of people telling me all this stuff like, oh, I'm teaching breathing now. I'm a breath worker.
01:23:08
Speaker
someone had a panic attack in my class or something like that. And I'm like, well, do you know why? And then like, no. And I was like, well, I'll tell you why. And they're like, Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. The breath worker didn't know that piece. So I got, I had this repetitively and I got annoyed and I was like, right, I'm making a course. So it's called baseline breathing. And so what it is about 40 videos where, um, I just go through like the actual
01:23:36
Speaker
anatomical, physiological, neuro-physical and even a little bit spiritual aspects of breathing. So when you do like your Wim Hof breathing, what are you actually physiologically, anatomically and neurophysiologically doing? And if you do the opposite, you do either take a real slow breathing or you do your meditative breathing, whatever it is. What are you actually anatomically, physiologically and neurophysiologically doing? Like what are you doing to your system?
01:24:03
Speaker
So if you actually understand that, then you understand when to use which breathing modality for which person, because you actually fully understand the basics. So if you don't get that baseline of breathing right, then you're not going to improve sleep.
Breathing Course and Practical Insights
01:24:20
Speaker
Even if you do, you want them in. So this basically just takes people through coaches, trainers, therapists, that sort of stuff, the actual
01:24:31
Speaker
basics of breathing in a pretty simple way. They're not too simple, like it's deep, but it's logical and people who've taken that have found that they've got like quite good results in terms of their understanding and also then their physiologic responses to breathing.
01:24:54
Speaker
So that's on my website, which is just my name, C-O-L-E-C-L-A-Y-T-O-N.com.au for Australia. You can go on there and get a couple of Zoom sessions, I think, with that one. So the idea was to kind of learn about the breathing and then create your own breathing program from that. And so I can help you create your breathing program or help you understand the material.
01:25:20
Speaker
the last guy that took it, he just wanted the in-person session. So he got like some big cranial sessions and we really released up some of those. Remember I said cerebral spinal fluid, breathing and circulation. So he was trying to do the breathing, but his cerebral spinal fluid was super locked up. So we released that. He just took off. He is about your age too.
01:25:46
Speaker
when you have that vitality is sitting there and it's really potent and it's not been able to be expressed and you help it express, bang, like what it takes off.
Invitation to Byron Bay and Contact Info
01:25:55
Speaker
So yeah, you can come and do that in person if you're ever in Byron Bay and that's where I live and work. Or you can meet me on that colglayton.com.au. I guess there's Instagram, the young guys, the young, youngies are always into the Instagram. I don't post on there very much. I should do more,
01:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, Instagram annoys me, but you can follow me there. Cool. All right. That's great. We'll put a couple of links down in the show notes there for everyone listening. All right. And I want to thank you guys for listening.
Disclaimer and Encouragement to Engage
01:26:34
Speaker
Um, everyone should know that this is not medical advice or osteopathy. Osteopathy advice is not enough. This is just informational purposes only.
01:26:43
Speaker
Um, but just remember that we're all responsible, sovereign, being capable of thinking, criticizing and understanding absolutely anything. Uh, we, the people in the greater forces together are self healers, self-governable, self teachers, so much more. Uh, please reach out. If you have any questions, comments, criticisms, concerns, whatever it may be, you can reach me up beyond dot terrain on Instagram is the best place to reach me. And, um, yeah, if you enjoyed the podcast found informative.
01:27:09
Speaker
Give us a review, share, like, comment, whatever it is on your platform you're listening to. And yeah, that really is the best way to support me at this point. So, oh yeah. Thanks for listening, guys. Just remember, there's two types of people in this world. Those think they can, those think they can't, and they're both correct. All right. Take care, guys.