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00:00:01
Clothing Is About Memories with John Tinseth
224 Plays3 months ago
John Tinseth, aka “The TRADINATOR” @thetrad came on our program, and just like that, another White Whale…unharmed. This program does not support whaling...but boy did we wail!!!
We had a great chat about language in clothing, regretting his chosen moniker, the life of a military brat, making immediate connections with like-minded people, encountering your heroes, and so much more!
“He’ll be back…” as a recurring guest…we hope…
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Opening & Guest Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello and welcome to yet another episode of Apocalypse Duts. Today, we welcome a special guest, longtime observer and participant in the trad fad. Well-traveled, well-heeled, at least one of his 300 ties has a shield. At your flip-flops, he'll reel the modrous mouth muckraker and appraiser in a navy blazer. We welcome the godfather of the clothing blogger, John Tins Dear God. Dear God, indeed.
Naming Regrets & Photography Experiences
00:00:34
Speaker
that' that's the That's the reaction that we want. i yeah you You bastard. um You know, I will say this. i ah Shortly after starting the trad blog,
00:00:50
Speaker
i I really regret it naming it the trad. And I also say this as well. ah In the years I worked on that thing, um it took a lot of energy. And nut tells about it yeah and and and I also realized it takes no energy to be myself. And I wish I wish i had done a blog.
00:01:17
Speaker
just as myself. I mean i kind of feel like you know like you describing yourself the way that you did when we first started setting this up, like it kind of comes through. like you're You're one of the only people that I can think of that like never really tried to put anything on, even though you know maybe you did.
00:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, I did. I mean, I certainly wasn't me. um But um I think that's, you know, that's appropriate to to to to army brats, or to military military brats and foreign service brats, anybody that moves around a lot. Sometimes they don't know who they are. um People who don't have a home. nice and I don't have a home. I think that everyone on the internet more or less has to choose how they want to represent themselves.
00:02:06
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. I started that blog because I was back and forth between St. Augustine, Florida, and New York City. and yeah um and and What was happening was I would go to Jacksonville, Florida.
00:02:22
Speaker
i mean you know um Northeast Florida is like Southeast Georgia. There's really
Street Photography Challenges & Perceptions
00:02:29
Speaker
no difference. and um and i And then bam, you know I'm in Manhattan, I'm in Midtown, you know taking a cab ah to an apartment on East 57th Street. And all I wanted to do was take photographs of those two places, of people dressed in those two places, what the people wore in Jacksonville and what the people wore in Manhattan. And I realized that if I if i did this in Jacksonville, taking pictures of people in Jacksonville, I would probably get my ass kicked pretty quickly.
00:03:04
Speaker
um You know, I know, i know um you know, but there was that guy that had the blog, ah one of the first street blogs, um and it was very successful. But I realized, you know, he was taking pictures of people on the street all the time. um And um I just realized I can't do this in Jacksonville.
00:03:28
Speaker
But it was really easy to do and in in New York. It really was. um yeah Yeah, I think that has something, because I think of i think of like taking pictures of people in Baltimore who I see all the time. And I'm like, man, I wish I could take a picture of this person. But it's like,
00:03:44
Speaker
I don't know what is going to happen. I have no idea what is going to happen. So I just take pictures of buildings. Man, you yeah, you've got to have a big pair in some places to do that. And my pair is modest. Yeah, i'm same with me. Meniscule. I don't have the guts to do that. um I'll jump out of planes. you know I did rock climbing.
00:04:13
Speaker
you know I had a heart attack. um I loved all that stuff. i I thought a heart attack was the best thing that ever happened to me. If you can come out on the other side, you know it is great. It is an experience and a half. But asking somebody to take their picture i and and not in Manhattan, I can't do that.
00:04:33
Speaker
can't do it. But in Manhattan, they're all like, Oh, yeah, we have what's the name of your blog? Oh, yeah. yeah Right, right. Yeah. yeah Mordecai Mordecai. i don't Mordecai has balls so big. I don't know how he walks. You know, he, how do you do how he does that?
00:04:49
Speaker
He just, you know, I just keep looking at these things of him taking pictures and I'm like, oh, he's going to get his ass kicked here. I mean, he's definitely going to get in trouble. But so far, you know, I don't know, must be the must be that nice face of his. Yeah, yeah i don't know that anyone would mess with him, really, I think that he gives off what I have, what I have sort of ah figured for myself is that people, I guess, think that I'm unstable, which they're not wrong. And so with Mort, it's kind of a similar thing. You don't know what's going to happen. right or he's Or he gives off a decent innocence. yeah you know and and i always When I first met him, that's you know he was stoned, um but he he he was stoned almost all the time. um But anyway, I think that there was you know um this just kind of real innocence about him as a kid. this is We're talking 12, 13 years ago when I first met him. There's a picture of you guys on very early in your blog. I'm trying to find it.
00:05:54
Speaker
We'll post it at some point, but I thought that that was funny. That was like not somebody who I really expected you to be running with. Like at the time, right, I was a college freshman. So I was following these people in New York, these blogs in New York, and they, I guess, had their own sort of um imagined alliances in my mind. Yeah.
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah, he, you know, we we we connected, we certainly connected, and and I liked him a lot. At the time, um um you know, um it it was, he was really, I thought, quite brave. Oh yeah. ah And so- The integrated uniform is like a mantra. I feel like it is genius work, really.
00:06:40
Speaker
You know, there was another blogger who told me one time, you know, when I was telling him about Mordecai, that I just met him. And I guess that was when he was working for ah doctors or some, I think he was working for doctors back then. And, um and this blogger said, you know, he's like, ah he's like, look, man, I'll call Mordecai, you know, at three o'clock in the afternoon, I won't hear from him for two weeks. And then suddenly, at three o'clock in the morning, I get a text from him. And that's, he's like, just beware of that. Beware, don't he see, you know, he doesn't reply very quickly, but but you know he's he's he's he's got a good heart. Hell yes. He's always come off that way to me. yeah like i I don't know him. I might have met him once or twice when I lived in New York, but ah yeah, just like seems like a fucking just genuine dude. Yeah, nothing nothing disingenuous about him at all. Hell yeah.
Military Background & Fashion Influences
00:07:33
Speaker
So, ah John, you've already thrown out the Army brats. So, we know you moved around a lot. Can you give us the highs, lows, and in-betweens of where you laid your head? Oh, my gosh, that would be... um Well, I was born in Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota, just outside of Rapid City. um I don't know anything about it.
00:08:03
Speaker
um you guys Can you guys hear in the background a chainsaw? It's my air conditioner. We will it's it's um, no, there's a guy with a chain oh no window um yeah No, I don't hear anything. Okay. Good. Good. Good. Good. I was gonna go into the bathroom in the toilet um um unnecessary yes Sorry about that um it is making um, so, um, oh and I just let everybody know I live and make it Oh dear god, I'm so embarrassed oh So, um the um
00:08:37
Speaker
I don't remember, I know that we had lived in um ah Fort Sam Houston um and Fort Bliss ah prior to my memory. um But when I was about six, that was when I first remembered um where we lived, my first memories. And that was that was El Paso, Texas. ah The next year was Lawton, Oklahoma.
00:09:04
Speaker
um at Fort Sill. The next year was Fayetteville, North Carolina at Fort Bragg. ah the next year dad The next year, dad went to Vietnam. They kicked us off at Fort Bragg. um And we lived in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. And so I was in fourth grade. First time I went to a Catholic school.
00:09:26
Speaker
um he That was fun. um yeah the nonsense that Do you think that that had some influence on your dress? I mean, I assume that it was a uniform school. Yeah.
00:09:38
Speaker
it it's a it is a yeah There's a weird thing about some military kids. When you grow up in the military, as my father told me one time, you and anything you do is a reflection on me.
00:09:58
Speaker
And if you screw up, I will leave you behind. Wow. Now, this was I was about 12 then, and you know this was 69, 70, pot was everywhere, drugs were everywhere, kids were getting in trouble. I knew kids were involved in the black market um in Germany. And um you know I don't think he believed that, but you know he wanted to scare the bejesus out of me, and he did. Yeah. So so it was it is about image in the military. But I was a closed horse.
00:10:31
Speaker
at a young age. I was wearing i have a picture of ah want of of me in a Nehru jacket um wow with ah and a navy Nehru jacket with a white turtleneck wearing tie-dyed pants and side-buckle shoes. That's sick. Because you know don you said in your blog that it's about basically looking nice, but also being loud, which I really appreciate it. That's Kotter's mentality. Yeah. Well, you know, it's it's um the loud thing um is, um
00:11:14
Speaker
I think, yeah there's ah There's a hidden language in clothing, and and this is not my creation. ive I've heard this many times. And you communicate to other people through your clothing. you know I can wear a 10-10 and snowy sweater from the milieu of ah Belgian animated series, 10-10. And before the movie came out, you know nobody knew what the hell it was.
00:11:41
Speaker
um And I didn't know what it was when I first started working in London. um But because of my last name, um everybody called me Ten Ten in London. um so that's that And I started looking at it and I thought, you know, and and in fact when I bought a dog, I bought a Wirefox Terrier because of Ten Ten. I wanted a dog just like Ten Ten's.
00:12:01
Speaker
so you i would I remember one time being in a train station with a 10-10 sweater on, this huge thing, Icelandic wild thing with 10-10 and snowy on it, their faces. oh my god it was And a woman and a woman walked to me a woman walked over to me, and I'm like, what the hell is going on? And she's like, 10-10. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. um So to me, it was always- So is the 10-10 is internationally recognizable?
00:12:32
Speaker
There was a movie in the States that came out. yeah and yeah so It's a little it's a better than it was you know with the internet. I mean, God almighty man, back in the mid-90s, nobody knew who what 10-10 was. Yeah. i I remember knowing of it sort of as like a vaguely espionage English thing. And so in that in that way, it was attractive to me as like a nine year old. Yeah, I thought it was French. um But I was I've always was always corrected by French people. Now it's Belgian. ah That was the original, they would correct you the artist. and um And I remember one time in London seeing a guy who had um a little citrone, the two CV, I believe. And it was in in
00:13:21
Speaker
in tan or khaki? And on the back, just under um the rear window, he had a painting of Tin Tin and Snowy, just like my sweater, but a line painting. you I was like, man, this is the coolest thing I do. It was kind of like James Bond ah neighborhood. i Yeah, he was a teenage he was a teenage detective, you know right um solving crimes. And he had his his friends and allies.
00:13:52
Speaker
Because isn't Poirot Belgian? Pardon? Hercule Poirot is Belgian, I believe. I didn is he i thought he was French. I thought that there's always a distinction though. He's like, oh, I know. For 300 years ago, they were going back and forth. They didn't even know, but it was Spain, and the French, and the Belgians, and the Swiss. It was all mixed up. Yeah. But anyway, I- Just to show you the artifice of boundaries in that way. Yeah.
00:14:21
Speaker
um that which you know makes me think of, you know in those countries, Spain had you know the ah order of the Golden Fleece. That's a whole other story. But but anyway, um it was a a he traveled the world. That was another thing. you know um And look, man, I'm 32 years old when I get turned on to t t ah to to to 10-10, and and um um I just remember um just being fascinated by it. you know I bought a bunch of the books um and and really enjoyed it. Look, man, that's what I did as a kid in a lot of ways when I moved around a lot. you know What you wore in Hampton, Virginia at Fort Monroe did not work in Colorado Springs at Fort Carson. I can tell you that right now.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah. and And my sister, who was an artist, she just walked around in overalls, you know, with paint all over them. She never changed. She never changed. She never changed. All the places we moved, she never changed. um But I always had to get a whole new wardrobe.
00:15:30
Speaker
um because you know Oh, so Hampton was topsiders and shorts and sailing on little 12-foot sailboats in Chesapeake off the coast of Fort Monroe. um Colorado Springs was waffle stoppers, jeans, a kind of a John Denver look at the time you know in 1973. Or you were a cowboy.
00:15:56
Speaker
um which the people in my high school called Prairie Fairy or Goat Roper. um then there were Then there were the kids who were the potheads, the stoners. Then there were the kids who smoked outside. um you know it was But you know i I kind of picked up on the... I didn't. i like kind of you know it It would be dishonest of me to say I didn't like John Denver because I did, but I was young then. Yeah, you didn't like him like that. yeah like but mom My mom has a great John Denver story. Yeah. i will yeah she so you Tell it and not say it.
00:16:35
Speaker
ah I don't even know, maybe this hasn't come up, but he was her favorite songwriter when she was in high school. And I think I'm pretty sure with our math, you you're in my parents' general age range. Okay. Went to high school in the in the like early to mid 70s, et cetera. So he was her favorite songwriter. She wrote him a letter inviting him to her graduation.
00:17:02
Speaker
And I don't think, ah sadly, I don't think she still has it, but he sent her an autographed photo and a handwritten letter back saying that if he had not had a tour scheduled, he would have been at her graduation. Wow. Yeah. like I have a soft spot for him. Also, the Toots of the Maytails Country Road cover is one of my favorite like reggae songs. Yeah.
00:17:29
Speaker
Well, no, I mean, you know, you're right. I mean, he was a great songwriter. Yeah, yeah. I can't say that I personally enjoy a lot of it, but you know. Yeah, you know, I don't even know what John Denver sounds like. It's like, what is a John Denver song? What's the most famous John Denver song?
00:17:46
Speaker
ah see women Rocky Mountain High. Yeah, Rocky Mountain High is up there. ah Take me home country roads. Oh, see, so I do know that. And he wrote he wrote he wrote stuff for Peter Paul and Mary. they did they They did some of his stuff when he was still just a songwriter. Yeah. He was one of those DJ Khaled character. Yeah, but he was, I mean, he just needed a little roughness or something. Yeah. i agree He was too flat.
00:18:13
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:19:05
Speaker
Were you shopping at like the PX at this point? yeah yeah like Yeah, I went to them as a child with my aunt whose ex-husband was in the Air Force. and like as ah As a kid that collected baseball cards, it was revolutionary. Okay, let me let me educate you here very quickly. so If you ever run into another brat, you'll they'll know that you're hip.
00:19:28
Speaker
And on on an Air Force base, it's not a PX, it's a BX. Okay, gotcha. Because an Air Force base is a base. Oh, okay. Base exchange. Do not call an army post a base. To be fair, we went to McClellan, so yeah it was a PX, not a...
00:19:47
Speaker
yeah Fort McClellan, yes. Okay, that was a post. But most people call, people will say, you know, oh, yeah, you know, the ah the army base. And now no there's that's why it's a post. It's a post. It's an army post. I would always say we're on post. um We live on post. We love this kind of like specificity, like language kind of straggling. Oh, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. You know, yeah.
00:20:11
Speaker
Yeah, and and ah you know so so a woman wrote a book um about military brats back in the 90s, and she said we were the largest invisible minority. That's interesting. That's a good one. It is. it is you know we We
Military Brats & Family Connections
00:20:28
Speaker
all have the same problems. We have a lot of mental issues. ah and And this depends, too, on what your father did.
00:20:37
Speaker
Now, there were fathers. ah there I know military brats who dad whose dads were um um judge advocate, which meant there were lawyers. um They were doctors you know working on ah working in the post hospital. um They didn't have the life I did. um They usually stayed someplace maybe five years, maybe six years. um And um my dad um was a Green Beret.
00:21:04
Speaker
and he was a captain of an A-Team in Vietnam. And that is very different coming home. I've written this before. You don't um spend your life either learning how to kill people, killing people, or teaching other people how to kill people and or a good parent. It's real hard to do. ah so So some brats have that.
00:21:30
Speaker
that issue and um I've befriended some since the trad and there was another blog I wrote while I was writing the trad called I'm Here to Leave and that was my army brat blog. um Not many people read it but it attracted some brats and you know I wound up talking on the phone with a lot of people um who who had you know fairly violent but fathers.
00:21:56
Speaker
um and um and And we also all realize one thing about our fathers is that as they got older, they had great regret to a man, every one of them. you know they was My dad was very stoic, he didn't talk much, very quiet. um um but um And I followed him in to special horses.
00:22:21
Speaker
Um, you know, nine years after he got back from Vietnam, I enlisted in the army and went into seven special forces group and everybody there, all the cadre, they all knew my dad because they had all been in Vietnam and special forces was a small little world. Um, and you know, um, it's still, um, you know, so there are, there are issues that go with that.
00:22:48
Speaker
But at the same time, too, there is I was 16 years old. my dad didn't When Dad got back from Vietnam, we did not get along. um But when I was 16, I told him I wanted to go jump out of a plane. And that was the minimum age to go skydiving. So we were he was actually at NORAD. He was the public affairs officer there. But we went to Fort Carson, and they had a sport jump club.
00:23:16
Speaker
And you know he was with me every night during my training, my five nights of training to jump out of a plane, doing parachute landing falls. He was with me. And on the day of the jump, he was running around, taking pictures. He was a big camera nut. And we go back to the clubhouse. ah And everybody's there. And you had to buy the club a case of beer for your first jump. And Gordy, the president of the club, came over to me and he said, John, you know If you're old enough to jump out of a plane, you're old enough to drink beer. So I sat on a parachute packing table with my dad smoking cigarettes and drinking beer. Wow. and and And we watched a movie um called The Gypsy Mods with Burt Lancaster.
00:24:04
Speaker
um
Fashion Industry Reflections
00:24:06
Speaker
Oh, man, who else? um We can find out. We have the technology. Oh, oh, the Gypsy Mods is just a beautiful movie about skydiving. I was just, you know, and suddenly, you know, we were suddenly pals, you know, we're telling each other jokes. Like, you know, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? You know, I that was my first joke I ever told my dad and he was like his she dying laughing. Gee, that was in it.
00:24:32
Speaker
Gene Hackman. Right. Deborah Kerr. Deborah Kerr. These people. Yeah. um ah It was just, it was, you know, they had a, I guess they had a 16 millimeter printer of it. And so yeah, I mean, and here I am with all these guys. um I mean, I and I had, you know, this, this kind of started, I was thinking, this really started my attraction to being with older people.
00:24:59
Speaker
you know I didn't want to be with people my age and I sure as shit didn't want to be with anybody younger than me. I wanted to be – and that's that's you know that was that's that's Charlie Davidson. ah That's Stephen Salen. That's Avery Lucas. That's these guys that have taught me so much a and um and and really the blog – I earn no money from that blog.
00:25:27
Speaker
But um it it gave me access to all of these people and and to the back rooms of Paul Stewart and Brooks Brothers and and to see really what was going on and how it was going on.
00:25:39
Speaker
i ah I don't remember what year it was from. I think it was you reposted it ah when Charlie passed. But jim ah Julie was ah what I would call a friend and a mentor for me. Really? yeah Yeah. Wow. Lucky you. Yeah. He helped me get my job at Epaulette when I moved to New York.
00:26:01
Speaker
is ah ah ah has been also the same from my friend Matt Lambert that does Factor's collection now. But like, he was a special motherfucker. Yeah, like, when I don't remember what the conversation totally was, but you know ah you'd posted something about you guys like ah talking about Charlie. yeah yeah it it was It was really special to read that again. like Charlie, he said Charlie was a bullshitter. Yeah, yeah exactly. like mr Mr. Herling was one of a million, man. yeah and he said He said, don't get me wrong, he was taking me home.
00:26:40
Speaker
Because i i was i was driving he was driving me back to my apartment ah because i I got on the subway to see him in Brooklyn. He goes, I'll take you home. And and we're in the car. And and he said, yeah. he said you know yeah no He's like, I've known Charlie since 1946. And he said, but he said don't get me wrong. Charlie's a bullshitter. He said, but all retailers are bullshitters. Right. Part of the business. Yeah, it's the business. That's just how he was. Did you? Julie was so, I was really blown away by him.
00:27:10
Speaker
Yeah. say one of the you know He was in the same building as Jay McLaughlin in Brooklyn. yeah I went there about once a week. i would I would remember one of the McLaughlin brothers, I can't remember which one, came down and I was talking to Julie and and Julie said something to to him about, ah we're talking about, he's got a... What do you call that? A blog. Yeah, a blog. And we're talking about a blog. You understand any of this stuff?
00:27:38
Speaker
and and And the the one McLaughlin brother said, yeah, yeah, Julie, I i understand it. um and And that's when Jay McLaughlin invited me up there. Oh, that's awesome. And I got to see his place, and I interviewed he ah the two brothers. And um I had this huge piece ready to go, and they sold. And I never ran it. Wow. Never ran it. I was really...
00:28:06
Speaker
good kind of a You know, look man, everything changes and and I have to understand I'm an old man now. I'm 66 years old and and I have to understand that, you know, But everything's changing. Brooks Brothers isn't what it used to be. Neither is Jay McLaughlin. Absolutely. ah Neither is the Andover shot. When people are lost like that, um you know, ah yeah and same same thing with Julie, you know, it it just everything changes. um And um sometimes not for the better. But um yeah, I'm glad. I'm so glad. I'm so fortunate.
00:28:46
Speaker
ah that I just really got to experience it. um I got to experience, you know, this was, this was, this to me was, was like meeting, you know, ah you know, an actor or, or, or a writer. In fact, you know, the blog got me, I met Gay Talise. Yeah, which writing a blog that is insane. That is crazy. Well, he's a clothes horse, you know? Yeah, no, I know. I mean, I just think that's like, I don't know.
00:29:16
Speaker
the it's like the eye right that's like ah go vial yeah the The English have a word for it called a clothes man and um you know people who are mad about clothing and and i you know I told that to to Gay and he's like, ah that's that's good. I never heard that.
Cultural Influences & Blogging Impact
00:29:32
Speaker
Um, so yeah, I mean I I really consider I I my roommate in college went on to become a a very famous Screenwriter and and film producer. Um, um young guns one and two the babe thunder heart. Oh wow And and and in fact, he he told me that he based ah ah the val kilmer character on me in thunder heart Um because and and and actually ah Another friend of ours ah had seen Thunderheart before he I ever heard this from John um ah He called me up and he's like have you seen Thunderheart yet? I said no and he goes Fusco nailed you um And I was like, what what are you talking about? I said, what are you talking about? Because you you Val Kilmer is playing you um Because I always did want to be an FBI agent and but um That was you know that was like
00:30:31
Speaker
To me, the the clothing business, yeah man, that that was Hollywood to me. It might as well just have been Hollywood. And I was in the right place for it. I was in the center of the universe for it.
00:30:43
Speaker
Um, I wanted to ask about that. So you said your dad was a camera guy, right? yeah Um, dar so I had a dark room. He built a dark room when I was about 13, 14. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I know people used to have them in their houses, which is like amazing. yeah Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask, so if you go back way back to your early blogging, basically, there are these pictures that it's like,
00:31:14
Speaker
they were before their time. There's like a selfie in and in an air, like in an airplane bathroom, you know? Yeah, yeah. in that Like this. Just really ah ahead of the curve with a lot of the stuff, especially with the blog and with the documentary ah photography, um I just think really, I don't know, kind of cutting edge. So I wonder how you feel about it in retrospect.
00:31:42
Speaker
i don I don't know about cutting edge. Well, it was you doing that kind of stuff before many, many, many other people. I didn't know that. But but i but i all I was trying to do was document something. you know and um um And so that that I think that photograph and in the plane, funny I remember this, um was you know me flying from Jacksonville to to New York, wow ah to to Newark, New Jersey, and getting a cab. And i've even and i've got I took photos in the cab of passing the city bus. you know It was just me going going to 235 East 57th Street. Well, it's like what the internet used to be. It used to be like that. It used to be about, here I am eating a bagel again. Right, right. And you're not there anymore.
00:32:37
Speaker
Right. so I think maybe in some ways I have going back to 1960, I just have tons and tons and tons of photographs of of you know hard copies still black and white, Polaroids, um color Polaroids. um and and And to me,
00:33:02
Speaker
i'll I'll tell you a secret that I never told anybody about the blog. yeah I couldn't write a goddamn thing unless I had a picture in front of me. But when I saw the picture,
00:33:14
Speaker
it it got me going. I could suddenly write a story. you know um and and that you know that i don't And I'm still like that. Because I could never fucking write anything. So it's like, maybe I need a picture. look I mean, a picture is a lot of inspiration. Yeah. You're not so you're not stealing. you're you know it's it's just It's your own generated. Yeah.
Emotional Significance of Clothing
00:33:38
Speaker
And clothing clothing is about is about memory to me. I have memories, like I told you, of of the the Nehru jackets. You're speaking our language right now, I mean. This is exactly us. I'm rolling on my sleeves. Well, it's it's like it's it's just, you know they they are to me something um
00:34:04
Speaker
that, you know, so I saw something somewhere, um a woman said, you know, a friend told her that she should get rid of her clothes because she was getting a divorce, clothes that she had had with her husband.
00:34:18
Speaker
And I remember thinking, ah um don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah, you want to keep those. You want to keep those and you're going to regret it. If you throw them away 1020 years from now, you're going to regret that. Because I've kept I mean, I got I got underwear older than you guys. um've I've got I just I won't let go and this is another part of being a military brat. I don't let go of anything. No, now some military brats let go of everything.
00:34:46
Speaker
The other ones don't let go of anything and there's not really much room I have heard from psychiatrists in between. You either you either don't let go or you do. and And so I'm like that with all kinds of things, clothing and the things in my head.
00:35:05
Speaker
It sounds a lot like my students, kind of, many of whom have witnessed insane violence and like ah parents moving around all the time, moving like four times in one school year.
00:35:18
Speaker
So it's, yeah, I mean, I feel you. Yeah, yeah. No, it's, ah what do you teach? Because I teach reading in Baltimore City. I teach reading like in the projects, basically. Okay. Okay. Kindergarten. I taught i taught ah taught English in in prison.
00:35:35
Speaker
to not about doing Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, and I taught i taught ah i taught it to ah taught English to a group of Chinese ladies. There were six or seven of them. they they They're writing and they're they knew English better than I did. I was just trying to teach them how to pronounce words. They were having problems with that. um But yeah, teaching English in prison, it was a female prison. um And um um the the the writing that i the the teaching I did in the Chinese group ah referred me to this prison. And ah and that was, you know, man, I'll tell you, I remember getting in my car, leaving the prison to go home and thinking, I've never felt so good.
00:36:23
Speaker
I've never felt like ah you know like I'm helping somebody, like I'm contributing something, like I'm doing something, as opposed to selling commercial insurance for 22 years. yeah um It was a night and day. It was really night and day. You sleep very easily. Pardon? I said, I sleep very easily. like Yeah. Yeah. When you're doing so work that is good, you I don't know. It's like the other stuff, it doesn't matter that as much. Yeah. It's very true. Very true.
00:36:52
Speaker
ah John how did you get started writing like what are the things that's always struck? I think both me and Connor about your blog is just like the quality of the writing that you do. The writing is way better than almost everybody else's. Yeah, seriously. Not to deal with like that. Not to blow up, you know, wind, blow the smoke up your ass. But like, I followed you a long ass time and I revisited the past couple of days. It's like shit. I was struck by like the breadth of the writing and the like scope. I don't know. My parents are writers.
00:37:30
Speaker
It's good. um yeah's amazing I got to talk to you about that. um but i I also have been diagnosed by the VA a with PTSD. um and And I will tell you some of the backstory about that blog and people who complimented me on my writing. One was a ah um an editor from Esquire.
00:37:55
Speaker
um I remember I was living right behind Esquire at the time. I was on um East 56th Street. so And I met him at the Starbucks there. And we'd just met for the first time. and And he was telling me what a great writer I was. And at the time, I did not know I had PTSD. And I said to him, really? Well, you know I mean, have you read much?
00:38:25
Speaker
I mean, I'm no Tom Wolfe, man. And I'm no Thomas Wolfe. You know, what are you talking about? And he looked at me really puzzled. Like, what is wrong with you? What is wrong with you?
00:38:47
Speaker
Uh, I don't take compliments. Well, and I never did. I never did. And it's all I also, I also just didn't think my writing, you know, was at the level of, you know, Thomas Wolff's Lacombe Word Angel. I mean, I, you know, I was just... I have that on my bookshelf. Oh, I love that book. I got the first edition. When I went to rehab, my mom gave it to me. Oh, man. Oh, it's such a good book. Yeah, it's beautiful.
00:39:13
Speaker
um And an interesting man, a really, and I was obsessed with him. He did, he had a relationship. He's a southern writer, right? Yeah, from North Carolina. Yeah. And he moved to New York and got involved in an affair with a married Jewish woman, Eileen Bernstein, who worked in the theater. She was like in costuming or something. And they had this wild affair. And um there was a diary, um which, you know, he, and they kept letters and all these letters have been published The sex those two had was like amazing.
00:39:46
Speaker
the both of them talking about it. and I just thought, wow, this is such a great story. and and they They went their separate ways and and Wolf died at a very young age. I'm always going to be so happy we're talking about him. but um but you know it it it I always thought it would make a ah great film. and and i you know Somebody did a film about Thomas Wolf a few years ago. um but i you right pardon He was from Asheville, right?
00:40:13
Speaker
I think so, that area, yeah. yeah And the house is still there. The house is still there, I believe. That's what I understand. I went to the house, yeah. Yeah, his father was a, his father carved gravestones. And that's the that's the that's the premise of La Comber de Angel, because all those old, you know, all those old gra ah tombstone monuments. But um yeah, I, you know, I was such an, I mean, I,
00:40:36
Speaker
I don't know how to take a compliment, and and I've had a few women tell me in my life, just say thank you and shut up. um but That's what they say. As hard as you're said and done.
00:40:48
Speaker
but um but yeah and i that was you know to me um i've kind of been confrontational with people in a lot of ways who I just didn't think were doing the right thing.
Education & Cultural Reflections
00:41:02
Speaker
It's a real righteous indignation kind of thing. And I've been doing it you know really since I got out of the Army. um ah yeah I remember you know my first year in college, um I went to a little college, Flagler College in St. Augustine.
00:41:20
Speaker
and on the GI i Bill and loans and work grant and all kinds of stuff. And I had ah a teacher there who was doing a business class and he was talking about how pimps market. And I so i was writing it down um and I kept writing because I thought he was an idiot and I kept writing. And um um and he came over to me and he said, oh, Mr. Tensetha, am I interrupting you? You seem to be writing quite a bit there.
00:41:50
Speaker
I said, well, you know, sir, I don't know if you know this, but I'm a veteran and I'm paying my own way through school. You know, my parents aren't paying. I'm paying and I'm trying to figure out how much it's costing me to listen to you by the minute. Hey, do you like clothing that's well made? If you listen to us, we assume you do. Our longtime comrade, Ava Kuehl, is the founder and creative behind a gnarly brand called Evelyn.
00:42:14
Speaker
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00:42:44
Speaker
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00:42:53
Speaker
And he asked to see me outside and they sent me to the Dean um and the Dean was an awfully nice man. and And he's like, you know, John, you were in the army. You know better than that.
00:43:09
Speaker
not to do that to somebody in front of an entire class. Would you do that to somebody in front of an entire platoon? I said, yeah, you know you you know what, Dean Carver, you're right. You're absolutely right. ah that I was wrong to do that. um But that guy did not come back the next year. And I think I had something to do with it. And I'm quite proud of that. I was going to ask, right? Because it's a it's a cut it's a collision of like,
00:43:37
Speaker
from the military, you're like responsibility and like kind of a rigid schedule. You're meeting these people, presumably who are like college freshmen who don't have any idea even how to eat breakfast, you know? They didn't even, they didn't know who John Lennon was. You know, that was when he got, that was my freshman year. People were like, who's John Lennon? Um, were the Beatles just like,
00:44:04
Speaker
I don't know. I you know i guess it's that that that age group that I was in. they were all I was born in 57. They were all born in 61, 62. And i think I think what happened was um you know the Beatles were gone by 69. And even if they might know the Beatles, I think kids today have better knowledge of of the Beatles than John Lennon.
00:44:29
Speaker
um you know than anybody did in 1980, the 18-year-old back then. You had to be a real music musical. ah I think you had to be really into the Beatles. And maybe they were just too young. I don't know. I don't know.
00:44:46
Speaker
Um, but, um, you know, Casey and the Sunshine Band, they all knew, but they all knew who they were. Right, right. It's that like, uh, generational torch passing, ah like the Beatles. but Yeah. I'm a music person. Like, I know their impact was like,
00:45:04
Speaker
really big, but also like in the time short lived. And then, yeah. And then like, you know, you had all this other shit in the, like, if these people were born in 61, they would have been coming of age in the like mid seventies. And so, yeah yeah, Casey in the sunshine band, like disco was waiting. Uh, yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of like difference in a very small amount of time.
00:45:31
Speaker
I remember my father had come back from Korea in like 1970. He had been there a year. yeah yeah And he went to Vietnam? ah This was Korea after Vietnam um the second Infantry Division was there and he was the public affairs officer Which is why he was a big camera guy. ah he was yeah He was a writer. He was publishing newspapers and magazines um and anyway My mother wouldn't let him draw it because he'd yeah he hadn't driven for a year um so she and he was pretty rusty and we went to go see the Beatles movie let it be and um um And we get done with it and we're driving home and and he said, you know, those guys could shit in a paper bag and people would buy it. And and I remember sitting there going, I don't know um about Paul George Arringo, but I'd buy John Lennon's shit for $5.
00:46:24
Speaker
um and I think cost i mean they were especially in in my age group you know um and I was just too young to go to their concerts you know I was oh I was hearing about people going but their clothing was just I mean, you go back and and look at the photographs of those guys, especially fucking good in the late sixties. And, and, you know, oh my God, and they were just, and had excellentence like whatever they wanted. Right. Linen's like wearing these, these, these shirts that look like they come from Turnbull and Assert. They probably did. He's wearing, it's a white collar, striped, loudly colored, you know, a dress shirt. God, I love those. Didn't you also see that there's also that like famous picture of him and Yoko and I think he's wearing ah like a type one with maybe like some 40s Wranglers and Chucks, you know, like, like, yeah, yeah, these guys pulled pulled that picture to me.
00:47:29
Speaker
I don't remember i don't i because I think the point was this the point was the shoes. Yeah. The shoes are definitely up there. Well, that that period of time too, you know was was just yeah clothing was wild and um and it started out right. you know They started using, yeah they were using cotton.
00:47:51
Speaker
And then along came the 70s, unfortunately Polyester got involved. were be but We are anti-Polyester on this program. I've got a whole ration of magazines that were published by a man named William Siegel. ah One was called Gentry. um Check it out. It's amazing. And another um was called, it was about fabric. It was a ah trade magazine, and he published those two. Pages had had swatches, real swatches glued and onto the page. That's so sick. Yeah, you know they didn't do that anymore.
00:48:25
Speaker
And man, the the you know it was just so sad when when the 60s kind of petered out and then the early 70s came and then all this DuPont stuff, just just it just really changed things in a lot of ways. yeah How that thing that we always talk about in this program has kind of interfered Yeah. Yeah.
Clothing Industry Changes & Innovations
00:48:50
Speaker
I remember... Is it cheaper, right? I mean, it's cheaper to produce. Yeah, it's huge cheaper. That's the end of the discussion. It's supposed to be plastic. It is right. It doesn't shrink. And it doesn't shrink. You can make that stuff for spit and you don't have to worry how people wash it, you know. They can wash it in hot water all day long and it's not going to shrink.
00:49:08
Speaker
i was I was talking to a friend of mine recently who's in the business, and we were talking about, you know can anybody make a button-down you know Oxford shirt anymore for less than $200? Yeah, I wonder. and and He said you know and and that you have to hang the dry because if you don't hang it, it will shrink.
00:49:29
Speaker
um and um i mean i was I was paying $185 for bespoke. 10 years ago. um you know and suddenly you know And now, the choices for button-down shirts are small, medium, and large. You don't even get an alpha size anymore. um So i you know it's it's it yeah, it's going to change again. All of this is going to change again. What do you think? What do you think will happen?
00:49:57
Speaker
i you know i got an I got an A on a paper one time unless you that i that I wrote in high school. yeah about um you know i had to We had to invent things.
00:50:08
Speaker
And um one of the things I invented was moving Pikes Peak to Florida and then moving the beach sand from Florida to Pikes Peak where it used to be. And the big hole there, you'd finally have fucking water in Colorado somewhere. you know I could go sailing and things would be great. That was one thing. And the second thing I invented was clothing um that that was just almost like silicone.
00:50:30
Speaker
um And you could you could control you could control the temperature. You could raise or or lower your temperature. So you didn't need coats. In a future where you don't need coats. No. we like it And actually we're going into a future where we won't need coats. so and i could i could go out I could go outside and it's 100 degrees and I'd be nice and cool.
00:50:53
Speaker
yeah know
00:50:57
Speaker
Dammit, I was going to ask you something.
00:51:01
Speaker
I don't know how much time I have because my phone is is on 10%. Oh, shit. All right. i'm not i'm so i i I beg your forgiveness. I did not prepare well for this. You were doing a great job. so ah I can't remember what I was going to ask you, unfortunately. I guess we'll have to edit this. That's okay. That's all right.
00:51:31
Speaker
Yeah. So, i you know, here's what I was going to say. Do you want to hear about our invention? Yeah. Oh, God, damn it. So long, long standing invention, genius brains combined. Matt Smith, Connor Fowler. We're thinking, right? The bladder daddy. OK, so the bladder daddy. Blattered. You're driving.
00:52:00
Speaker
You have to go to the bathroom. You relieve yourself into a bladder daddy, right? And you continue to drive. You can keep it in the little pocket in the door. Kind of like a reverse camelback. Like reverse camelback is even worse.
00:52:19
Speaker
I do like that though. I've read of that down. That will go into the that will go into the show copy. You know, we we had something like that in the Army on on convoys um where um um you would you would pee into a can. um And um one time, um driving down from spring break,
00:52:46
Speaker
with John Fusco, the screenwriter and the film producer, and a couple of other friends in the back of a Buick deuce and a quarter, driven by another good friend. We were all going down to Daytona for spring break. And I had to pee. And the driver said, hey, I'll pull over. And I said, no, no, no. I learned this thing in the Army. We don't have to pull over. And so I peed into my beer can.
00:53:11
Speaker
and um And I forgot that all the windows were down. So when I threw the can of pee out the window, oh no it kind of it kind of hit everybody in the back seat. um so But still do talk to me. um But um that's like, yeah, that's like, um Just beautiful poetry, really. They should. They should have something like, you know, why wouldn't they just have something come out from under the steering wheel that you you put on and pee and take off and, you know, and we're really in uncharted territory now um on this program. Yeah, I was thinking. Do you have a do you have a thing I know you do something you're mourning?
00:54:04
Speaker
an article of clothing your morning that you can't replace that you won't find again. um but don't Let's not be too sad about it since we're just talking about piss for an hour, right? Right, right. I do. I do. um I have an article. I still have it.
00:54:20
Speaker
But it's it's ah it's it's falling apart. um um when I was a park ranger. You've done so much stuff. and yeah it's That's basically incompetence. um and That's me. That's what everyone says when they see my resume. and ah um A woman in St. Augustine was making by hand.
00:54:44
Speaker
all of the linen small clothes that were reproductions of 18th century small clothes worn by the Spanish army working at the Castillo de San Marcos in St. Augustine. um We wore an eight pound wool coat over it, but I have a linen i still have the linen shirt.
00:55:02
Speaker
and And many women have tried to take it. um And it is- You can't let anyone of any gender take your stuff. It's like- I know, but but girls are a different story anyway. But anyway, but anyway. um But this linen was kind of heavy. um and But it's it's got holes in it now, and it's hard to wear in public. But it was one of the most comfortable things in the world. um I have that shirt. It has holes in it. I've been wearing it. I just think you could do it too.
00:55:31
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. i I wanted to, I was in India for seven months and um yeah was I wanted, it I wanted, I was, they they they got the best linen I've ever seen. And I was like, you know, trying to convince the guy down there of making an 18th century shirt. um but But I'm sorry, what is it that makes it an 18th century shirt in terms of like construction? First off, it's a pullover.
00:55:57
Speaker
You know, it's a V neck with ruffled um ruffles along the V neck. But in in real linen, ah the shirt sleeves ah tie at the cuff, there are no buttons, you have to tie it. um And they kind of flare. Or is that and that's like a Renaissance sleeve.
00:56:17
Speaker
Right, right. Well, they're, they're a little puffy. They're a little puffy, but not pirate shirt puffy. um um It's more it's it's it's kind of clean. But the amazing thing is, i you know, I was wearing these things every summer on the on the gun deck of this old Spanish fort in St. Augustine, it would be 100 degrees, it would be 99% humidity.
00:56:38
Speaker
And you had to wear a an eight-pound wool coat over it. But what happened is when you got into the office you know to take a break or have lunch or whatever, you take the wool coat off, the the small clothing, the breeches and the shirt were soaking wet. And we just had fans in there. And it was like the air conditioning was on. It was beautiful. And it was the most comfortable stuff i ever I ever wore.
00:57:02
Speaker
um i've seen you know um i've seen The closest I've ever seen to it is a woman on eBay who sells French work shirts from the the early 19th century. um um and where they're just That's all they are, linen. They're heavy linen.
00:57:21
Speaker
um long sleeve, the neck, that's it. And man, it's just the feeling of it is just amazing. It's just a wonderful, wonderful thing to wear. I love it. I love it. um Yeah.
00:57:37
Speaker
That's, but it's, it's, it's, it's from 1980. So it's getting ready to, to fall apart into little tiny pieces. I have like a, it's like an Italian shirt. It's like finetti or something. It's like made up. hi It's yeah, it has holes all over it. And I didn't probably just going to wear it until I can't wear it anymore. Yeah, I guess.
Personal Clothing Stories & Practicality
00:58:03
Speaker
You know, there's there's a a pair of pants that I have that I made with Charlie Davidson. It was fabric that had been left over from a ah guy who um ah was a very good client of Charlie's. And um um it was Merameco fabric. And we we did it together. And um I i i will I will cherish those. I might put those in my tombs. I'm not going to be buried. But anyway, um i would if I were to be buried, I would put them in my coffin with me. um ah Melt them down and put them in the urn, baby. That's what it's all about.
00:58:44
Speaker
Yeah, there there are some things like that. um but But they're not so much because of what it was. You know, that that that linen shirt, that was made by a woman, Gudrun Hall. ah She was German and she was married to my art professor at Flagler College. She made all of that clothing. And so I know who made it. um And she was a yeah that's we were we were good friends. we were ah We were all very good friends. That was the nice thing about going to college as a 23-year-old freshman was,
00:59:13
Speaker
you know, the the faculty were were a little bit more, you know, you could get, now you could drink with them, you know, I mean, yeah they were, they seemed to, I had been in the army, I made sergeant before I got out. I was in an airborne unit. um And I had a lot of stories. So recognize you as an adult, you know, and I had, ah and I had a Fiat X one nine, um which was the biggest piece of crap.
00:59:37
Speaker
ah A great-looking car, but it broke all the time. I think that's why they call it Fixing it in Tony. but um um yeah it was It was a lot of fun, and it was a great it was a great time to have have been there and and been with those people. and They stay. you know Obviously, they they stay in the forefront of my mind. I can't remember what the hell I had for dinner yesterday, but I know them very well. Man, hell yeah.
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah, John, this has been awesome. And we are definitely need to have you back on the second time. Yeah, I would be happy to i happy toll have the phone charged next time. Don't don't drag this out too long. now now you i make i make a time bomb Yeah, yeah. So let us hit you with this last question.
Future of Menswear & Global Access
01:00:30
Speaker
What?
01:00:32
Speaker
is your view of menswear in 2024?
01:00:39
Speaker
Well, I'm trying to be positive. And it's hard. Yes. It's hard, man. I feel it. I feel it. You can just let your freak bag fly. I guess here's my here's my view. That the more the more world menswear becomes, or any clothing, that it's that it's that it's not so much like like, you know, I can go to India and and make anything. I can make my Nehru jacket in India.
01:01:13
Speaker
You know, ah with the internet, um with with communication, with with the fabric that's out there, I can order fabric from NDL a whole lot less than I would pay for it in the States, ah even with the shipping. You know, the world is open to us. um and And I would say, too, that, you know, the other thing is that we can go on eBay and buy 18th century silk. You know, I mean, i i this crap was hard to find.
01:01:41
Speaker
um and and in at the 80s and the 90s, if not impossible, but it's everywhere now. And so it's really, you know I think it's a good, you know that's the good, that's my positive side of this.
01:01:54
Speaker
is that the internet and and the manufacturing and and being able to see, like 10-10 and snowy, being able to see these things in other countries that you were just you never knew about and you can educate yourself about it in a heartbeat. It's not hard at all. I think that's great. And if you've got a little bit of imagination and like to, you know,
01:02:19
Speaker
tweak things a little bit. um man you know Or to go out and to go out and buy a French linen work jacket from 1930. um um you know It's 50 bucks and it's I think it's maybe free shipping. Yes, absolutely. ah I think we're yeah we're all on the same page. Overall, as many problems as the internet,
01:02:47
Speaker
that arise like in that po
01:02:51
Speaker
i think the suit's dead too i got to say that well see well see i guess yeah blazers blazers never but but i just don't i just don't know about why anybody would have to to go wear a a suit to work unless they're in insurance. And even those people don't do it anymore. Right. but yeah know we're we're all ah just You know, eating popcorn on the sidelines. arise like that positive.
01:03:16
Speaker
ah That's very true. Yeah. Well, dude, thank you.
Closing & Farewell
01:03:21
Speaker
one Thank you, Matt. Thank you, Connor. Yeah. shit Yeah. Well, we'll definitely have you on sooner to rather than later. That's very nice of you. Thanks. We would like.
01:03:31
Speaker
to give you a chance to shout out whatever you want to, so. I shouted it out, Big. We're all, I think we're good. We got, yeah. And thank you. We got the trad, the, you're kind of legendary. You're kind of legendary. No, please. How many legends have you met? Come on, come on. I mean, you're leading turn into a toad, Matt.
01:03:53
Speaker
yeah There's something. All right. Cool. Well, you guys are great. Thanks a lot, man. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. All right. Everyone. Thank you for listening. um I am Matt Smith at Rubble's Rogues. And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Flower. We are at Apocalypse of Stars on Instagram. Apocalypse of Stars at gm.com. If you want to send us email.
01:04:19
Speaker
All right. Cool. Take care, gentlemen. Thanks, man. Bye bye. Bye bye.