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The Weejawnz Brothers in Ivy Without Borders
314 Plays1 month ago
We finally had a successful interview with our pals, John Weejawnz and Dan Weejawnz, overlords of the Weejawnz Discord and Instagram. We play Stud vs. Chud, Talk The Worst Part of Ivy Style, loafer variations, defining “local,” internet anonymity, trying to befriend dads in the daycare pickup line, bucking the rules, A Blind Squirrel, A&F, Frat Astrology, Timeless Style, and an LL Bean Boat n Tote more...
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Stud or Chud'
00:00:01
Speaker
Ladies and gentlemen, they's and them's. Welcome to the most stylish showdown on the air. It's time for... That's a cheering sound. Stud or chud. The show where clothing meets culture and John's reached the chopping block. Our cherished and storied guests, Dan, Wee Johns and John Wee Johns. Our judges.
Challenges of Remote Podcasting
00:00:31
Speaker
Uh, I guess I shouldn't ask how you are. It's been a while because it is, this is probably our fourth attempt.
00:00:47
Speaker
I really missed our conversation last time and anytime I listen to the podcast, I'm like, oh man, I wish I could like chime in. I know, I know. This is our obligatory. It's really fucking difficult to record an all remote podcast. Three, me, Connor, and a guest is one level. Having two guests at one time is, whoa, or sorry, two or more is just not the simplest thing. I would have done a sandbag and purposely miss it again as a bit.
00:01:16
Speaker
Just to keep it alive. Maybe next time I'll come up to Baltimore and do it in person. Yeah, there we go.
00:01:29
Speaker
that would be tight. Yeah, we recorded one episode of my house and it was like, they're like as police helicopters and like, yeah, it was also like, if I'm remembering correctly, it was right as the previous like hosting platform that we use to record change their shit. And so we had to like scramble
00:01:53
Speaker
And yeah, it was it was fun. But yeah, welcome. Welcome to the show, y'all. Thank you for coming back on. Yeah, thanks for having us. Yeah, let's let's start the fucking shutter.
Fashion Trends and Cultural Associations
00:02:05
Speaker
Oh, sorry, stud or chip. First up, we have black dinner. Oh, man, I might I'll let John lead off here.
00:02:19
Speaker
Hell yeah. Yeah, no, I'm on board. That's my new thing for this fall. And it's been really exciting to see other folks really picking up on Black Denim. Yeah, stud, for sure. You were doing it. You were doing it. You pitched it to me, even.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got to join me. I think that's good. I think that's good. Yeah. And Black Jeans are cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I like the subversive element of them. And I don't know why. I feel like I have like a 90s country music connotation with them too, for some reason. Oh, for sure. I feel like I remember my dad wearing them when I was younger.
00:02:56
Speaker
Like Tim McGraw, Garth Brooks, you know. Marty Stewart, those guys definitely rock some black denim. Pretty regular. Kind of depends on the belt, too, and the shoes. Yeah, yeah. They don't like wear, then what's the point? Right, right. I have myself come to embrace black more. I prefer a little bit more faded to like super dark, but yeah. Yeah, definitely. I'll cosign that, yeah. I mean, I will admit I do not own a pair, but
00:03:24
Speaker
You know, it's it's on the radar and I agree with you Matt. I mean, just I mean a faded black denim is essentially kind of like a gray anyway, so. Right, right, exactly. Yeah, it's it's one of those things. John, I think you hit it on the head. Like it is subversive, like especially for anyone that comes out of like skateboarding or fucking punk or metal or whatever, like. Don't they only wear black? I mean, at the whole point.
00:03:49
Speaker
At certain times, sure. But, you know, we all have had our black Dickies and black, you know, too small t-shirt face. At least I have. Oh, yeah. I wore all black when Trump won. I wore all black every day for two years. Your morning fits. Yeah. What was funny was convenient. I mean, I could wear a sweatsuit and like a fishtail park. Yeah.
00:04:18
Speaker
Sorry saying if I get black jeans, I'll look like Aaron Levine or Aaron Levine. You would look good. Don't you think? Yeah, I definitely think so. They're on the radar.
Brooks Brothers: Past and Present
00:04:33
Speaker
I mean, that's the other thing. I mean, you got to get the cut, right? I mean, I'm not going to be wearing some like five tens. Yeah. I'll give a shout out to my, uh, my buddy, Matt Lambert, who does a factors collection. Like he, he incorporates a lot of black, but also a lot of like midnight blue and things of that nature. And I'm like, every time I see him, he has like a horse-eyed pair of trousers that he wears with like a midnight jacket. And I'm like, fuck, that was cool.
00:05:04
Speaker
they're really like uh beautiful a lot of the stuff is really really like thoughtful oh yeah yeah i would expect nothing less all right black denim is a cosine for both a stud a stud so connor you take the next one sure uh we wanted to talk about brooks brothers i think it's stuff has kind of changed since
00:05:30
Speaker
Since the five years ago when we recorded the first one of these so we can start with Dan this time because We're about equality Just Brooks in general or I mean is it worth wearing who gives a shit about Brooks Brothers anymore? Like pre 2005 potentially I will I will give stud but yeah, I I don't know
00:05:59
Speaker
I don't think there's anything really on my wish list from a current offering in many seasons. I'll put it that way. I don't know. I mean, maybe there's some value in some knitwear, potentially, if it's still made in Great Britain, which I doubt it. But yeah, I mean, pre-2005, for sure. But yeah. Yeah. I would say a year ago, I think you could recommend to somebody getting a Brooks OCBD.
00:06:27
Speaker
relatively inexpensively. That is like not true at all anymore. I mean, I guess you could still do the sell them for like 80 to $120. It depends on it depends on though, if it's like, if it's an actual all cotton or like made somewhere. That's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Oh, just not the yeah, not the fucking
00:06:53
Speaker
The ones that are worthwhile, I mean, you used to be able to get them for cheap. Now they're fucking expensive. That's the story. I have really weirdly strong feelings on this because for a couple of years, like right, like up until like last year, I was recommending their made in Vietnam once that they were doing because you could buy them on sale for like 45 bucks. They were kind of oversized in the fit. And they were great. I mean, you know, when you got them for 40 $45, you couldn't really beat them.
00:07:18
Speaker
And then recently I think they've retired those and now it's some new like Friday Oxford shirt or something like that That's kind of like a shorter cut meant to be untucked that I'm just I'm not about and they They're starting to bring back like the the number one sack suit which is I mean it's cool that they're heading in the right direction and they're starting to bring back some more like Paris tweed stuff, but it's still just
00:07:40
Speaker
not there for me. The lapels always look a little off on the suits and then I'm a big fan of the old fun shirts and they brought it back recently and I was really excited but it's just not good. It's just like some really ugly colors. Like it's so simple to just do like the blue, red, yellow, green fun shirt and they're doing some weird like grays and I don't know what else it is. I'm just like, you know, like keep it simple.
00:08:07
Speaker
I'm going to innovate on something that already is good. Yeah. To me, I feel like Brooks overall these days has reached like Macy's in the mall status, which I'm sure that that is about their clientele, but it's like, you know, things. They used to be prestige. Yeah. There used to be prestige. Like they used to be at least in the Taylor clothing world, like
00:08:31
Speaker
very relevant and now you know i don't know if it's because like the skinny suit is still holding on to mainstream shit like it's finally reached the point where that's like the go-to instead of the terrible business suit that should have died a long time ago but uh you know it still doesn't look good for the most part
00:08:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, all the lookbooks are real. They're rough. Oh, I can imagine. I don't know if Michael listens to the show. If I'm listening, Michael, we've got to stop with the lobsters and the anchors, etc. I mean, their archive is incredible. I wish they would...
00:09:09
Speaker
Yeah, why don't they just produce stuff from the archive one to one? It's because I, so I've worked with a lot of like, I've worked with Southwick who made Brooks Brothers since the dawn of time, essentially. Like I've worked with these old school made factories and they never have and seemingly never will be able to realize that like, hey, we need someone that actually knows something to,
00:09:38
Speaker
like be creative in this role. Like none of these companies have anyone that has like any connection to modern times. And so they just, they do the same stuff for so long. And then it's like they shift and try to like be this super dreamy thing. And it's like, yo, you're 15 years behind the trend, dude.
00:10:03
Speaker
Uh, yeah, they also like couldn't have been relevant really, uh, in the, I dunno, I feel like in the hashtag menswear times, it was like, like the red fleece label. I feel like they were leaning into it and they've just never come out of it. Like black fleece was incredible to me.
00:10:23
Speaker
I mean, that was good and it was innovative, right? Even if it wasn't for sure. It was great. You know, like some of that stuff does look dated, but some of it is also just like, oh shit, like that could be, that could still be like entirely relevant 15 years on
Evolving Men's Style
00:10:40
Speaker
or whatever. I think the first black police collection was like 08.
00:10:44
Speaker
or maybe I'm not, I can't remember. I just think it's funny. People were saying these suits are slim. They are modern. They will be forever. But they're also always what it is. They're always whatever.
00:11:01
Speaker
they're nearly identical to the 60s heyday of ivy like cut and details and like yeah that stuff can look dated sometimes but like there's there's enough crossover with like more modern shit and like super soft shoulder and whatnot like i'm not a big fan of sack jackets or like hook center vents but you know there's there's ways that they could have kept that going because it does harken back to like what they're best at
00:11:31
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah, derail this whole conversation but certainly back to what you're saying Matt about designers. Ivy style did an article recently with J press is creative designer or whatever it is and it was just.
00:11:47
Speaker
Not good. There's no real vision to move things forward, but I think this has also been a complaint in the Ivy style community forever. You don't get a lot of innovation from the old guards, and you see it more from other shops. I keep coming back to all Beluzco as somebody who I think are doing a lot of really, really cool stuff. It's a bit too expensive, I think, for me to buy. I'd rather just go buy vintage stuff, but I think they do a lot of really cool Ivy stuff.
00:12:16
Speaker
Totally, totally. Okay, so the next stud or chud, and I think we all collectively agree modern British weather is just chud, but the next one hits home for me because it's one of the things I passionately hate. One of a very few things. As George Carlin says, I don't have pet peeves, I have psychotic fucking hatreds, and this is one of those. The kilty tassel over.
00:12:46
Speaker
Uh-oh. Well, I think, aren't we talking about the hierarchy of lopers since the name after a loper? True. Right? Me, Joel? I mean, I feel like that isn't even as established as Slope said, for example. Let's make this a two-part question. So, first of all, Stutter Chud, Kilti Tassle. The other part of that being the Tassle hierarchy.
00:13:14
Speaker
John, since you have loafing in your handle, this is yours. 100% stud. I feel like this is a targeted question, I mean.
00:13:24
Speaker
Wait, you're saying the Kilti tassel was a stud? Oh, yeah. So like, so I have to preface this by saying, I think Kilti loafers like outside of like deck shoes are the only shoe I saw my dad wear for like 25 years. And it was like the pair of loafers that he gave me when I went off to college, he was like, here, like have my old pair. So I wore them some in college, I ditched them for a while.
00:13:47
Speaker
and I've started wearing them again recently when I found a pair at the thrift shop. I like them. I don't know why. I think there's something charming about their ugliness, which there is no doubt. They're fatty, dude. They are. They're fatty. I love wools. I don't own any. No one will let me have them.
00:14:05
Speaker
So the other thing is that you can buy like the older Cole Han ones for dirt cheap on eBay and they're really good, right? Like the, some of them are kind of junky, but like some of the older like Italian and made in America stuff is like legitimately good. So even if you don't like the style, which is fine, whatever.
00:14:28
Speaker
Um, then I still like them. I will say I don't think they're the best tassel loafer. I think that goes to the regular tassel loafer, but yeah, sign me up for Kilties. Okay. All right. And yeah, so for you, what's the hierarchy? Uh, I mean, I think it's gotta be all this tassel loafer first, right? And then I'll say Kilties. The ones that are really...
00:14:50
Speaker
Yeah. 666 is the brown suede. 662 I think is the tan one. You guys know I can do like a whole rant on just Alden stuff. No, not my favorite one, too dark of a brown. The ones that really get me though are the ones that are like the plain strap penny loafers that have the tassel on them.
00:15:12
Speaker
I don't mess with those. The Venetian style ones without a strap, I'm cool with those. But yeah, for me, it goes kind of the traditional tassel over, then the kilti and the Venetian, and then whatever the basic paint loafers. Okay, all right. Dan, what is- Okay. I'm a little demoralized by John saying the kilti tassel sort of stuff, but- Wow, dude. This is not meant, I'm not-
00:15:40
Speaker
I don't want John to catch a stray on this, but I said on this new iteration of it, I'm not going to try to split the difference, so I'm just going to come in with a hot take.
00:15:53
Speaker
I will go with Judd. I don't know. At times, it's just hard enough just to wear a loafer, I think, outside of the office, period, to the point where it's like, well,
Loafers: Practicality and Style
00:16:04
Speaker
for some. But for me, personally, at times, for better or for worse, I don't think I can. You can wear a loafer whenever you want. I know, brother. But I'm just saying, I'm not rolling up to my kid's soccer game and loafers, and certainly not kilty loafers. Yeah.
00:16:23
Speaker
you know, if I had a huge closet, maybe, but I'm- You don't have to chase a child in loafers. I mean, I do do a job. I don't have jobs to get to, so it's, you know, it's just, that's just kind of my own, my own prerogative there. But yeah, I just think the ceiling is all that high on them. Like, I mean, you, you really got to nail it, I think. Yeah. You know, to pull them off, whereas the, the floor could be quite low. So yeah. I think they're funny. They're like a funny shoe. It's like,
00:16:52
Speaker
I think they probably predate laced shoes.
00:16:56
Speaker
I had a pair, like, fairly recent. Like, I can't remember the model. They were Allen Edmonds, but it was actually, I mean, talk about a Frankenstein. It was a tassel, basket weave, kilti. I love that. I love that. I mean, there was just so much going on on these segments. It's like, too much people are the first person to come up with that, like, the first cobbler to be like, my masterpiece. I combined everything. That's fucking awesome. It's like 1700.
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah, so I flipped those and yeah, I don't know that I'm gonna be planning to get another parody time soon. I worked with a guy years ago. His name was Jerry. Great. Funny ass dude. He was really into smooth jazz. And he previously had, I think, managed a Joseph A. Pank.
00:17:48
Speaker
So if that gives you a little insight into his overall style, I will say it did evolve in a good way. But anyway, so we called him Jay Smooth, and he wore a Kilti tassel.
00:18:03
Speaker
four days a week. And I was just like, this is the worst shoe I've ever seen in my life. Just consistently in my face every single day. Did he have a ponytail? I have a ponytail, but he did wear transition lens glasses. So a lot of sprays here. I don't have a ponytail right now, but I can, I can do that for you. I'll post a ponytail. Your default state to have the ponytail though.
00:18:30
Speaker
Right? Because you keep your hair just looks more hasher than like dude holding on to youth to me. I think it was on the Kroll show. They had that sketch ponytails. It was like five different guys with ponytails, a lot of cats, you know, very nice. Yeah. OK. Sorry, I derailed that a little bit. But Dan, what's your moper hierarchy?
The Debate on Shirt Pockets
00:18:59
Speaker
I mean, I'd probably say Penny, first and foremost. I feel like that's just the easiest one to roll with. Then I guess I'd go tassel then bit. I mean, that's a little throwy, but I think you can shoehorn him in, pun intended. Yeah. Okay. We definitely got to get the video of that one. We've got a really funny show for you.
00:19:28
Speaker
If we're doing the generic low for one, I'm with them. That's the, I think the classic queen loafers gotta be up there. The full straps are way down low for me though. Oh, full straps are another one that I really fucking hate. I don't think that, I don't know, there's probably some cool old Italian or Japanese dude that wears full straps and looks amazing in them. To me, it just reads bad, like 80s, 90s corporate office bad.
00:19:59
Speaker
It's a strong look. What about shirt pockets on Oxfords? I mean, we have talked about this on the show before. People have feelings about them. Does anybody not like them? Fuck yeah. Ralph doesn't like them. Okay. Like most Ralph shirts don't have them. And that's a huge, huge pain in the ass.
00:20:29
Speaker
That you're right. My, my, my big shirts have it though. No, you got to have a pocket, right? And there was that era where Brooks brothers dropped the pocket and everybody lost their minds for good reason. Yeah. I have one of those. It's really annoying. Yeah. When I was a smoker, it's like you can fit a smartphone and a pack of cigarettes and very, very, very smoker and I carry a pen every day. So I need a fucking shirt pocket. I love the pen.
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah, always, always. I always bought like a fountain pen. I don't know what the fuck I was thinking. My handwriting is really bad. Yeah. Okay, so John, I think you're overwhelmingly stud on Oxford shirt pocket. Yeah, I'm pro flaps too. Pro flaps. Yeah, I like a good flat pocket.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yeah, I will go sign both of those. It's super annoying not to have the pocket on the shirt. That's where I usually keep my badge because I don't want to be like the guy with the badge hanging on my badge liner. Oh yeah, keep it in there. So yeah, if I were a Ralph Oxford, then I keep it in my other back pocket somewhere. What have you? I know it's yeah, I heard the flap to another. I don't know if you have a J press flap, John.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah. I've got an LL Bean retro one, and it had like a little sewn in slit, and I didn't really know what that was. It's for a pen. It's for a pen. There you go. Did it also have like a little slit at the top of the pocket, like when it was buttoned? Yeah, a vape. The vape fits in the pen pocket very nicely. I will say this as a trash person, that's where I keep my elf bar.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I would want it on Pat, I would want it unflapped on one side. Because I like to put the phone in and out of that pocket, you know. Get a custom made shirt with two flat pockets. I have a shirt that has two. I have a shirt that has two pockets on it. And I was like, this is terrible. Like I don't want to look like more breasty. I think it's great because you can have it. It's like,
00:22:45
Speaker
Very convenient. I'm not a phone in the shirt pocket person, so I don't know. It just feels beautiful. It's definitely going to give me some kind of disease at some point because it's really in my shirt pocket a lot. Wow. All right, guys. Final one.
Bow Ties: Cultural and Stylistic Challenges
00:23:00
Speaker
How do we feel about bow ties? Dan, let's start with you. I am out on those. Okay. Yeah.
00:23:12
Speaker
I will leave it to the professionals. I think you can nail it, but again, I think even if you hit every detail, it's only going to look so good, whereas I think most people, it's just...
00:23:25
Speaker
the execution is not there. Yes, it gives the barbershop and or choral ensemble quartet vibes. No matter. Libertarian. It's like you're a libertarian. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I feel like if someone looks like Rivers Cuomo and is wearing like a bow tie and an argon vest, I'll give them a pass because
00:23:46
Speaker
You know, I understand it, but... Why did they get a pass? Well, just for my personal judgment, I'm not going to be like, okay, you know, whatever. And like, Dan... Nerds don't get your ire if they're wearing the boots on. Yeah, and like Dan said, you know, some people look really cool in them and I can get down with that. I've tried them many times and I'm just like, yeah, I feel like a douchebag.
00:24:08
Speaker
So maybe if you're 70 plus, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Also it's very there. I just, I shouldn't say that, but, um, if you're kind of like mid range, like twenties to sixties, I dunno, it's a very particular kind of thing. It's just tough to do. They've been co-opted by the right. I'm trying to bring it back. It's like a party around your neck.
00:24:33
Speaker
It's like that Kentucky Derby and Spo, you know, it's like everyone goes to the Derby party and they just bricked so bad. Yeah, yeah. No, bow ties are great. And look, you have to accept the fact that a bow tie is is a bow tie and it's not. From like amusing, I'm going to say men's right here and not like a hashtag men's right way, it's not like the best choice from like a true men's wear way. But I mean, you know, they're they're
00:25:02
Speaker
They're charming. You know, when you tie a braid. That's the whole point. It's like a weird non-tie. But I mean, whatever. I like them. That's what I'm saying. It's good. It's like a who cares. I think I'd rather go bolo tie. Bolos are sick. Yeah, I think those are cool. Yeah, yeah. I'll get them with my black jeans.
00:25:25
Speaker
Uh, but no, I mean, look, you've got, uh, Tom Keene and Bill Nye, both rock and bow ties. I will say, I think they need to be small and I think they have to be like really soft and floppy to really have some, some character to them. And you need it to be tied well, uh, and kind of, you know.
00:25:44
Speaker
half-cock sideways and whatever. Yeah, it's gotta be fucked up. Right, yeah. Yeah. No, I love bowties. I've been wearing them since, I mean, since I started law school. I remember wearing them. I was working at the Georgia Capitol all the time. Oh, sure. And I would wear them up there. And then when I moved to DC a couple years after that,
00:26:03
Speaker
I remember wearing bow ties and I got so many so many comments from people on wearing bow ties but they were always overwhelmingly positive like people people generally respond well to bow ties um but you can't wear them every day no no I I don't know if it's like because of fucking Colonel Sanders or something but like southerners love a fucking bow tie and they they somehow appreciate that not sure what why or where that comes from but
00:26:31
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like business suit, bow tie and like full strap loafers are a big thing in the South.
00:26:40
Speaker
They're tough to tie to. I'll come out and say it. I watch like four hours of Instagram videos on how to do it. Oh, yeah. I'm sure I can't continue to do this. Yeah, that's my other thing. I can tie like a double four in hand in about 10 seconds and a bow tie takes me like 15 minutes to fucking finally get right. It's like tying your shoes around your neck.
00:27:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, have you ever tried to tie someone's shoes? Actually, both of you guys have kids. Yeah, I had some experience. Yeah, and you're a teacher, but if you try to do it backwards. It's very hard for me to do, even still, that I do it every day. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Tying a bow tie, it feels like that to me.
00:27:26
Speaker
Same cause you're looking in a mirror. It's like, it's a terrible thing. That's what they used to get up to back in the day. Look at my fancy neck thing. I'll say this though. For me, one of my biggest pet peeves is a poorly tied tie. Oh yeah, totally. Like a loose knot drives me nuts. And like, you gotta have a good dimple. You should make a sticker out of that. Yeah, you really should. Loose knots drive me nuts.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's just one of those things where my dad, I remember getting ready for high school prom or whatever it was, teaching me how to tie the tie and not just tying a tie, but being like, look, this is how you really get a tight knot. You need to have a dimple. Here's how a tie should be. Ever since then, that's really stuck out to me. And same thing with bow tie. He taught me how to tie a bow tie too. And he's like, look, you got to learn how to really tighten the knot and get it nice and tight. Because he was like, that's the charm of it.
00:28:25
Speaker
So you don't like the look of like four o'clock in the afternoon with the tide pulled down. See, that doesn't bother me as much. As long as the knot is still tight and the dimple is still there. Yeah. All right. Well, that was our kind of inaugural redo of different things in stud or chud. Maybe we'll continue this wonderful little exercise.
00:28:51
Speaker
But yeah, great, great answers. I like that it wasn't all just total agreement from both of you. It's wonderful.
00:28:59
Speaker
And you practiced all of your responses yes It should have fucking been good. Yeah, so let's get me the clues in advance They're betting on it all the fans are betting on it. We're sponsored by ABC who definitely gave the answers Yeah, that joke hopefully age as well
00:29:27
Speaker
But yeah, so. Can I ask? What? Did someone say that? Oh, that's, that's a whole thing on the fucking like right at this point. Like the idiots are like, Oh, like, like it was three against one for Trump. And I didn't watch the debate. I just kept up with it, you know, via Twitter and a couple of other people just texting me shit. But I was just like, wow, cool. Yeah. We haven't, haven't made any progress.
00:29:54
Speaker
Anyways, and that's generous. Yeah, I am being generous.
Personal Journeys and City Life
00:29:59
Speaker
All right, so guys, where are you from and where do you live now? Whoever wants to go first is welcome. Dan? Yeah. David, I was going to. I'll hop in there. Yeah, so I am from the Midwest. Beautiful St. Louis, Missouri. So I'm born and raised.
00:30:23
Speaker
I guess I'm a little bit of a homer to a degree because- You know about East St. Louis? Yeah, I'm aware of it. I mean, you've been over there, I'm just curious. Well, that's where the casinos are. So like East St. Louis is actually across the Mississippi River. Yeah, I'm reading it like described. Wait, so Dan, you're saying the west side is where you spent most of your days? You can say that. Yeah, I mean, East St. Louis, I mean, it's,
00:30:54
Speaker
You know, I don't want to extremely segregated. For the most part, it's like a it's a blight blighted area. You know, there are casinos over there. It's a lot of industrial and then like Monsanto poison.
00:31:10
Speaker
And then unfortunately, it's just real rundown neighborhoods to an extent. Some other gentlemen in the clubs are over there that are apparently not legal within the city of St. Louis. So if you're going across the river, generally it's to gamble or to do some other nefarious type of activities. So I'll leave it at that.
00:31:31
Speaker
I didn't go to East St. Louis, but I'm curious. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, if you're ever in the area, we'll go over there. We can check it out. Yeah, we can do some gambling and yeah, definitely. Yeah, again, so born and raised, I went to all school here, went to college here, went to grad school here, so I haven't really ventured out.
00:31:56
Speaker
you know, as far as other cities, you know, post grads. But I mean, overall, I mean, it's just it's home. Yeah, I really like it. I've been there once. It seems rad. Do you like Culver's? I'm sorry. Do you like Culver's? Is this a restaurant that you go to? I'm not a huge Culver's guy in a pinch. Yeah, I thought it was like,
00:32:20
Speaker
Is that, um, I don't know. I think we went three times. We were there for a week. Cause it's, it's, it's Culver's like Denny's. It's kind of like a steak and shake. It's like a nice hamburger and like good ice cream. Yeah, I kind of get it out. I was curious about it cause there's real division.
00:32:41
Speaker
Matt, there's one of 400 by the North Georgia Alamo. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh. Well, I'm vegan, so they probably don't have a single thing that I can eat. Not at Culver's, unfortunately. Yeah. It's OK. I grew up going to Steak and Shake, so I can kind of imagine what Culver's is like. Yeah. Steak and Shake's great. Yeah. It was back in the day, like, if you're coming home from, like, an Atlanta Braves game, which is typically when I ate it. But, yeah. Damn.
00:33:11
Speaker
And Sean, what about you? Where are you from? Where are you from? Where do you live now? Born and raised in Georgia for the first like 22 years of my life. I spent a decent chunk of time in Spain because my mom is Spanish. And then I've been in DC now for about 12 and a half years.
00:33:32
Speaker
I don't know if I can call up Georgia as much like my one true home anymore. I think it's DC these days. That's awesome. A lot of good cool history in DC. Yeah, it's a cool city. It's a cool city. I will say, DC has very strong opinions on what a local is. What is the DC definition of local?
00:33:59
Speaker
I still don't fully understand it but like it's kind of like if you're not like born and raised in like DC proper. You're not really from DC right in like kind of Washington. Yeah, right like people have very strong feelings to like if you're from like just across the river in Virginia, you know, like some people think that's and some people don't at all.
00:34:19
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, look, I mean, my kid was born in DC, so I think that gives me at least some claim to being a Washingtonian these days. I feel like 12 years is also a long time to live in a place. Right. I mean, I'm 35 now, so that's the third of my life. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying good, but I'm saying like they my parents are Washingtonians, they're super like
00:34:48
Speaker
Excluders, you know, it's like, I'm from, and it's like, man. I mean, I kind of get it though, right? I think like, so I met metal, no, like Marietta, Georgia. It's not, it's not Atlanta, right? It's I mean, it's effectively a suburb and I'm from Kennesaw originally, which is just a little bit further out. But like, in Georgia, I think you
00:35:09
Speaker
kind of claim Atlanta if you're from like anywhere within like 30 or 40 miles of like downtown proper business wall is so big. The Atlanta Metro is 90 or 70 miles from north to south. It's ridiculous. When Nat told me that, I was like... Yeah, you can literally, you can fit, I believe, the state of Massachusetts in the Atlanta Metro area. Yeah, I believe it. Probably more in the English and Central Atlantic states, but...
00:35:36
Speaker
Yeah, and it's an oasis in Georgia, too, right? I mean, like, once you start to get outside of, like, Atlanta's, like, you know, sphere of influence, like, you're really in, like, the heart of the Deep South, right? Like, the running joke back home is always the difference between Georgia and Alabama is Atlanta. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'll give Birmingham tons of props, too. I love that. Yeah, no, Birmingham's a cool city. And I mean, you know, there's other big cities, but there's no other Atlanta in the South, right? I mean, you've got Nashville, Richmond,
00:36:02
Speaker
You know, the cool cities, but Atlanta makes Georgia, well at least these days it's changed a lot, but like a much cooler southern city to be in. Yeah, totally. Still the best city in the world in my opinion. Random DC question, but have you ever driven by the Discord house? The Discord house? What's that?
00:36:25
Speaker
Uh, the record label that, uh, Ian Mackay and, uh, Brian Baker started that put out like minor threat to God's ET models, all that. It's in Nova I think. It's in Arlington, I think.
00:36:39
Speaker
which is in Northern Virginia. Yeah, but, oh yeah, sorry, Nova. Yeah. So is this like where I am from, like my whole life? Yeah, it's just, it's funny, like, I don't know, something that made me think about it was like, I think both Ian and Guy from Fugazi are from like Arlington area or like, you know, kind of not technically DC, but close enough where like they consider DC home. I don't know, it's just funny how things have changed.
00:37:07
Speaker
Yeah, I can't claim it. But we're somewhat close to the American football house. And so I've been by there before. That's okay. That that makes up for John this courthouse. Did you see those recently turn into an Airbnb?
00:37:24
Speaker
No, which is kind of brutal if you think about it. Oh, yeah. I had seen something I feel like everything is brutal if you think about it. I think someone was trying to like fundraise buying it. I think they did. Oh, they did. Oh, and now my question. My question is.
00:37:43
Speaker
Is it like an American football themed Airbnb? Because I thought you had American football, the band. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Our audience is aware. I'm sure. But like, you know, if it's if it's like a concealer themed house and it's an Airbnb, I don't as much as Airbnb kind of sucks. I don't know if I can totally hate it.
00:38:04
Speaker
I would assume so. I think it probably is tinged that way, but yeah, I think the guys did buy it, along with some guys from the record. Okay. Well, that's cool. Cooler, at least. Cooler, yeah, but it still has the Airbnb aspect of it. It preserves buildings, I mean. Yeah, yeah. It should be a fucking national monument. Yeah, it should just be a hostel for Deeds touring. Yeah. Oh, dude, that's a great idea.
00:38:33
Speaker
But yeah, I guess that doesn't really bring in the dollars. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the record or the music industry as a whole is like, if you're not Chaperone or whoever the newest pop sensation is, you're kind of fucked at this point. So I kind of get it. Yeah. It's progress. Yeah, certainly. Certainly. Yeah. So I think you guys are in those bigger markets. Is it like a, I always hear like,
00:39:03
Speaker
you know, DC or Atlanta or Nashville or Austin, they're like, they don't want the transplants. Is that kind of the thing? I mean, a big thing in Atlanta is like, which has kind of become a meme is like, we're full. Not to say that like, there aren't rad transplants that come here, like,
00:39:25
Speaker
There definitely are, but the infrastructure itself is not built for as many people that live in the metro as they do today. It's wild how much the land has changed. It's a whole different city. It's crazy.
00:39:42
Speaker
I mean there's certain things about it like in the music scene it's like one of my favorite periods that I've been a part of and like been around. There's still you know there's an amazing art scene like there's all this incredible stuff happening but then you know I'll drive a place that I haven't been in a month and I'm like oh fuck I started going to condos here. Great and the condos are not like affordable in the least bit so a lot of that shit. It's everywhere.
00:40:10
Speaker
Yeah. That's everywhere. That's every scene. But also, and I don't mean to, I won't go on a big soapbox, but like Downtown Atlanta is so fucking cool and could be so cool. And no one gives a shit about doing anything with it. So it's like mostly barren or like just a bunch of stuff from like, you know,
00:40:33
Speaker
that have sat in disrepair for so long that it's, I don't know, it just, it pumps me out because downtown could be so sick and nobody puts any effort into it. Yeah, we kind of have the same vibe, honestly, but yeah, we don't have that problem. We'll take your transplants, come to St. Louis. It's great. Probably way cheaper than most other, or a lot of other places. Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, we got four seasons, you know, if you're... Yeah.
00:41:03
Speaker
Not the hotel. Well, guys, we have one of those. We're talking about style or what have you. We do have four distinct seasons, which I think that's kind of a nice little perk about it. Yeah, that's great. I will say, I think that's kind of DC's biggest downside is that there are a ton of transplants here. And for the most part, people don't stay.
00:41:25
Speaker
I've had so many friends over the years who are here and then stay for two, three, four, five years, and then peace out and go somewhere else. Maybe that's a big factor in the whole locals versus not thing, but yeah, DC has a ton of transplants. Especially as administrations change, the city resets itself. I moved up here in 2012.
00:41:49
Speaker
And it seems like just before that, kind of like when Obama came into office, DC started to be a cool city again. But DC lacks, I think, a lot of the, I'm not gonna say charm, because I don't know if that's fair, but a lot of the charm, for lack of a better term, that the other cities have, like Atlanta, right? I mean, it's grown so much and it's changed since I moved here that it's really starting to feel like its own kind of vibe now. But before that, I don't think it was,
00:42:18
Speaker
as much of a complete speed. Yeah. So do we want to do the fifth check? I mean, we can edit this if you don't want to. That's fine. What are you trying to say, Connor? I'm trying to say that you look like shit, both of you. Thanks. Really appreciate that. Leave that part in. Leave the video out.
00:42:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna add any of this out. You know, we're fast and loose here. What about your first clothing memory?
Fashion Memories and 90s Trends
00:42:53
Speaker
I mean, have you sharpened your answers for this? My connection just dropped there. What'd you say? The first clothing memory? Because I remember your answer. Jinkos? Was that my answer? I thought you were talking about tailoring at a young age.
00:43:14
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like mine was Jinko's. It's funny listening back to all your other podcasts, not like the giant massive ones, but in middle school, I was just old enough to start doing my own thing in terms of style. And that's when the Jinko's and all that stuff was really big, and this skating era. So I think that was...
00:43:42
Speaker
it for me. And granted, it was a very short lived era for me. I had a sweet pair of black corduroy jinkos. Oh, I remember. I'm pretty sure I remember that exact model. And so that's that's like one of the big things that stands out for me, like at least like my earliest memory and then like, you know, if you're talking about like in like my kind of adult period.
00:44:06
Speaker
I don't know. My dad retired right before I graduated from college. And I remember him giving me a bunch of his old work stuff. And I didn't really realize it at the time, but he gave me a pair of Aldens that were like the Broad Cap-Tail Oxfords. And that kind of got the itch for me for nicer shoes. So that was a big one as well. Oh, hell yeah.
00:44:33
Speaker
I wasn't the same jinko camp like my parents would not allow me to buy the massive ones so I could only get the like you know whatever inch bottom that looks mostly like a normal pant but also like probably fit about the same as like the Carhartt pants that I wear today.
00:44:52
Speaker
I didn't even know that there were different cuts on G and K. Oh, yeah. There were some that were like a hundred and bring your shoes. There were some that were like 45 inches, you know, around the or maybe bigger. Those are the big boys. Yeah. Those are the big boys. They're like new metal looking ones. Yeah. Yeah. That's all I remember. Yeah. My my parents wouldn't let me get those either. I think I were like
00:45:16
Speaker
Arizona jean co carpenter jeans or something. So they're like, it's like so insane clown posse. It's like, uh, it says so much. Yeah. And I don't know what you could do about wearing them. They're one of those things that are now like hip in the vintage world that I just refuse to buy and sell. Like I could make, I don't think it goes with your aesthetic. I'm trying to channel the logo. Like, wasn't it like a little cartoon guy? They had multiple.
00:45:46
Speaker
Yeah, there were there were like the kangaroo ones that have like a kangaroo sticking out of the pocket. Oh my god, world. Those little guys, I mean, everything seemed to have a little guy on it. And I love the little guys.
00:46:06
Speaker
I think I wore just like a lot of like, I mean, obviously growing up in the 90's sambas, like Umbro, and one. And one. Starter jackets, Adidas jackets. Yeah, there were like, there was an Umbro outlet in Alabama that I was like obsessed with because I played soccer too.
00:46:30
Speaker
as like a 12 or 14 year old or something, but like whenever you had a pair of those on, it was like, yeah, dude, I feel cool. Yeah. Yeah. I had a bad ass one that was like World Cup 94. Oh yes. Yes. And like they had like, they had a little guy or it was like a, it was a dog. I'd say it was a dog. That's some of the best branding that I can think of in my lifetime.
00:46:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, if you could uncover one of those mint right now, that's like 500 bucks. Yeah, yeah, it's probably expensive. So what was, aside from umbros and sambas, what was your first clothing memory? I mean, aside from that stuff, like early on, I think like probably early high school, like the first items that like I remember like saving up to buy for myself would probably be like,
00:47:22
Speaker
like your, and I know they're like huge resurgence right now, but probably like your, your Birkenstock Boston or the standard, um, North Face Denali, the black on black. Yes. Those are like, yeah, I mean, those are like the black on gray. I mean, you really can't go wrong, but yeah, that's like,
00:47:46
Speaker
When I was in high, like early aughts to mid aughts, I think that was like, that was the move right there. Like the, the Burks, the, I mean, slightly boot cut jeans with the, uh, with the Denali jacket. I mean, that was it. Well, and like new balance 574s. Yeah. Honestly, it's like not a bad.
00:48:13
Speaker
look at a bell curve and you're going to say, all right, that's my middle ground. That's probably not a bad place to be.
00:48:22
Speaker
It's funny what this conversation brings back, because I definitely had a pair of Birkenstock Bostons, had a pair of Nike Cortez, had the Adidas, what are the Klamtos, the Superstars? Yeah, Superstars. Oh, yeah. So ugly. That's where the flag burst. I mean, this would have been 01, 02, 03. I just hate the shell toe. I think it's so bulbous. It's like a hideous. Yeah.
00:48:51
Speaker
I was talking a couple of days ago to some friends and in the hardcore scene that I was a part of in this time period, those Steve Madden sneakers, the ones that looked vaguely Italian and kind of like chunky in a way, designer, and also the knockoffs that you could go to pay less and pay like 15 bucks for were so huge. And then the like sock any jazz. That's a boldy James says.
00:49:20
Speaker
Those are still great stuff. They look like Skechers, but they something. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They do look like Skechers. I won't shit on anything Succone because I love that brand and design. I think they're pretty classic. Yeah. Yeah. The Steve Madden sneaker from that time period is like, we should have burned them with fire. That's what they were.
00:49:43
Speaker
Yeah, the jazz are good, and then the shadow, I still think. Yeah, the shadow's great. The courageous has always been my favorite. What words are you saying? Saucony Jazz. Oh, I see. Saucony Shadow and Saucony Courageous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This guy I was in college with, he and I would always joke about making this blog about shoes called Surprised It's Not Supra.
00:50:12
Speaker
And they would be ugly shoes that were not Supras. That was our plan. You can still start it. It could be. Yeah, we did. It was on Tumblr and then it was gone. RIP. RIP indeed.
00:50:32
Speaker
It could be a resurgence of like that odd era blog stuff that would be like super funny. I mean, I think it's we're close, right? The cycle continues as rapidly as it has ramped up to be. We ain't more than a couple of years out of it. Yeah. Well, did you guys see that? Maybe Matt, you saw I keep kind of in the indie rock. The Cindy Lee Diamond Jubilee release was on geocities.com.
00:51:02
Speaker
That's fucking amazing. Oh my god. No, it's an incredible record and like that was the like you can get it on YouTube now but I think when I was released like you could only stream it via geo since then it was like legit like pixelated like when websites were good ex-page like hometown.aol type. Right, right. Just like
00:51:24
Speaker
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00:51:55
Speaker
Do we still have John? Because he is frozen online. I'm sitting here deeply. No, he was thinking deeply about how to do it, how to do the conception.
Wee Johns Community and Creativity
00:52:06
Speaker
The long and the short of it is... So for anybody on Reddit, right? So there's always been the male fashion advice community, but there was a smaller IB community called Navy Blazer.
00:52:20
Speaker
that was always still pretty antiquated and rigid, despite Dan and I's best efforts to kind of reshape it. And we wanted to start something that was more, I don't know, I like to call it like Ivy without borders, right? I mean, like,
00:52:39
Speaker
Like the, I mean, you know, there's been so much going on with Ivy lately in the past few years, and it's really trying to capture how Ivy style, you know, incorporates other styles like Milserp and Maricana and stuff like that, but also the inverse of that, right? Like other styles that capture Ivy style and, and to find a way to have a spot for
00:52:59
Speaker
the less rigid Ivy folks to kind of have a home. I think with that being said, we still have those of us that are more hardcore traditional Ivy and those of us that are less Ivy right now. I think you've had a few guests on who are on the Discord.
00:53:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's it, right? I mean, it's really good to have a place to talk about, you know, Ivy in a contemporary sense, but we have a ton of Ivy nerds that, you know, can talk about we'll have conversations on like the different chitlin sweaters and an Oxford cloth shirts and what the best things are there. So it's it's just kind of a
00:53:36
Speaker
I don't know. It's what I've always kind of wanted on the Internet as a home for myself in terms of style that's more open to new thoughts in terms of Ivy, but also still a bit more boring, I think you could say, than other places are.
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think John's done a great job with curating the channels and just really the infrastructure of the thing. I mean, it's just kind of a place to hang out, honestly, on the internet if you're interested in
00:54:11
Speaker
you know, like really any type of men's style that's somewhat adjacent to Ivy. And I think John and I have similar tastes, but like, I've kind of gotten a little bit more like a gourpy granola, like milserp to an extent. So like, you know, like if you know, Ivy's kind of like your
00:54:29
Speaker
You know your your base aesthetic like what else can you do to kind of freshen that up or make it less stuffy? So I know like there's just a ton of what like wealth of knowledge to like right, right? It's just like easy to hop in there and when the posts of non
00:54:55
Speaker
I don't know, like Ivy from various media. It's like, that's nice to see. So that's also doing something right.
00:55:02
Speaker
Dan is the rock star. So for anybody listening to this, our, the Wee Johns account story feed, I think is one of the best spots on Instagram. If you're remotely into Ivy style and Dan does. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, right. It's funny. Cause like anytime I'm like cycling through my stories, I'll get to the Wee Johns account. I'm like, damn, that's a good fit. Damn. That's good. I'm like, Oh shit. It's Weegee. Okay. It's Dan.
00:55:26
Speaker
Um, that's that's like the highlight for me at least. Uh, and that's the word I was going to use. I didn't know which one of you it was. I will say like we, we really, I mean, maybe John feels differently, but we have like no playbook on running this thing. It's kind of just talking to the right fucking people. Cause Connor and I also have
00:55:49
Speaker
no playbook on funding this. It's just kind of like, okay, we're doing this thing. It's guessing test. It's like, I'm not saying that like we don't put in work to make apocalypse duds happen. And I just referred to the show in the third person. I'm not.
00:56:07
Speaker
But yeah, we're not trying. As real as you make it. Yeah. We're a DIY process with two people that just have an interest in what we do and try to do it to the best of our ability. And we both have actual full-time lives. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, it's kind of like a medium to share photos that we think are cool. And then trying to be topical with it a little bit as well.
00:56:38
Speaker
Obviously, you've got some seasonality of bringing in different elements as the seasons change, but then also, what's going on on the internet today? Can you find a fit that's going somewhat viral? Or can you find an image that's going viral for some other reason and just find like, actually, this kicks ass because of XYZ. We've done that a couple of times and that's the fun aspect of just being creative and
00:57:07
Speaker
We had the one dude in New York City who had the most plain vanilla fit of an Oxford and six inch seams, and then we had one of our guys Photoshop the sporadic tattoos, the dad hat, the mustache. I was like, holy shit.
00:57:28
Speaker
Like it just became so relevant out of nowhere. It was nuts.
The Reality of Online Communities
00:57:31
Speaker
So it was just like fun stuff like that. I mean, with some good hearted shitposting. Yeah, of course. Everyone loves a good hearted shitpost.
00:57:40
Speaker
Yeah, I'd love to do more of it, but Dan and I obviously both have full-time jobs and we're both dads. So it's hard to do more. And I know you guys have kind of talked about this in the past with other guests, but it's fun to share the knowledge you've acquired over the years with others. I mean, you may not agree with all of my opinions, like my thoughts on guilty tassels. Right, right.
00:58:05
Speaker
I've got a lot of stupid knowledge that I can share, and it's fun. I mean, it's fun to engage with people, right? I mean, circling back to the Discord, I think that's the highlight of the Discord, is that it's a good place to engage with other to talk about stuff. Teaching is great. Not to be all, like, you know, numerous or whatever, but those spaces have disappeared in a lot of ways. Totally. Not everyone has adapted, you know, from the forum and blog period to now.
00:58:35
Speaker
Including us. Including us. I mean, we try, but like I, I also, you know, like the thought of going onto a message board at this point in my life, I'm just like, no, I'm good. Thanks.
00:58:48
Speaker
Because it'd be an ad every few posts. Talk to me through responding to my Instagram stories, or sending me stupid-ass memes. Yeah. And every community develops its own culture, and a lot of them devolve into circle jerks, for lack of a better term. I mean, some of them, you end up with a very much insider and outsider perspective. And that was one of my complaints with some of the writing communities before.
00:59:18
Speaker
the protests kind of happened and really destroyed those, right? I mean, it's kind of inevitable to a certain degree. We know the majority is not often the right opinion. Yeah, that's right. So yeah, I mean, you know, it's fun to have a good space where, you know, I think our only firm rule is, you know, don't be an asshole. Yeah, that's a great rule to live by.
00:59:41
Speaker
Right. I mean, it's it's really it's a really low bar. But yeah, I mean, you know, you develop a good sense of community and, you know, no matter what you're talking about, whether it's clothes or stupid parenting shit or what somebody's up to on the weekend. Oh, and that's like really cute that there's like parents discussion there. I mean, you guys are. I just love it. I think it's great. Right. But like it's cool because we've been able to bring on so many different people. Right. Like Oxford Cloth Button Down is on their Zach. I mean, Leon Dad is on their
01:00:11
Speaker
Um, you know, and it's fun, it's fun to go out and like find people who I can kind of like, you know, appreciate something in their style and be like, Hey, you know, we've got this stupid thing going on. You should come join us. Yeah. Something I've seen a lot of on like Twitter recently is, you know, and I guess this has been a discussion for awhile, but like, you know, living quote unquote, living online is not like living in real life. And a lot of the rebuttals that I've seen from my little ecosystem that I've constructed are like, like
01:00:40
Speaker
we're real alive people and we're talking to other people that have similar interests on the internet. Like it's as real as making a friend at school or whatever the fuck. Definitely. And I think too, in the post pandemic world,
01:00:57
Speaker
It feels like so much has changed in terms of day-to-day life that a lot of times it's easier. And I think a part of that is also just entering parenthood. It's easier to have those kinds of communities where even though I can't go meet up with friends, I have to work for a beer or whatever, I can still shoot the show with somebody. Right, right. And a lot of interests are so niche that it's like even in a city like Atlanta or DC or Baltimore, how do you find the people?
01:01:25
Speaker
that are interested in the same you can only find two or three well dressed people yeah i'm not even saying that i'm just saying across like in a general sense like.
01:01:36
Speaker
Yeah, no, I know. There's no friend app. I mean, there's no, like, it doesn't work. Can we get, like, a friend, like, Bumble-style app for menswear dorks? Our clothing dorks in general, and, like, I guess that kind of sounds like what, you know, a lot of us Lee Johns and whatnot are trying to do.
01:01:57
Speaker
Yeah, right. I mean, I've hung out with the Brima a couple of times here in DC. I mean, that's the other thing, right? I mean, there's a handful of us that are in DC, and Connor, we still got to get you down one day. But, you know, I mean, we can have a meet up and shoot the shit. Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah, I'm kind of envious of the DC and then the NYC guys and the Alfargos guys. It's like, man.
01:02:19
Speaker
It's like, the only place I really can like dress up is like go to a show, honestly, which is kind of, but like, yeah, I was like, you know, you go to a show in a theater, it's like, I'd rather wear a sports coat there than, you know, try to, you know, like shoehorn that into a dinner or something. Yeah, it's not as easy. Yeah. And it's different to be observed by people who know what you have done, you know, it's like,
01:02:49
Speaker
to have your stuff appreciated by people who do likewise is really important. The daycare pickup line is always a funny spot, especially in the morning, right? Because some days I'd have a good fit on and some days it's normal, but you always kind of think of yourself like the other parents looking at you like you're crazy because they don't understand the context of what you're doing and any of that other stuff.
01:03:14
Speaker
Um, but like there was always one other dad who, who always had some killer fits. And my, my daycare was pickup line. And I'd be like, yeah, I got you, dude. I like that. Do you come here often? I say that kind of shit all the time. I just, no one ever likes. The daycare, pickup line, friend connections.
01:03:31
Speaker
That's right. I saw one dude actually on my kid's last day of daycare, one of the new dads wearing a J-Press hat, and I really wanted to say something to him, but I didn't have the chance to. Ah, yes. Misconnections. That's right. So, what's your review guys to Ivy in the first place?
Ivy Style Influence
01:03:58
Speaker
it's i think we we chat about this last i don't think i really had a great answer and
01:04:04
Speaker
I don't know if I really do other than like, I think the first time I just kind of said, you know, like the osmosis, you know, it's just like, you know, growing up in the, you know, the 90s or whatever, I mean, that's just kind of what like parents wore, you know, if you look back at old movies, it was like, oh, it's a sports coat or, or chinos or loafers or what have you. So yeah, I don't know. That's part of the pitch is that it's really familiar. Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's elements that are comfortable to you.
01:04:31
Speaker
I don't think that I really, I certainly didn't really grow up in that environment, so I was thinking more about it. I don't know, I somehow kind of came through it, and at least my hypothesis is kind of, I guess through music, is what I would say. At least that's going to be my take on this, just kind of going back to the aughts or whatever.
01:04:55
Speaker
You think about some of your mall brands or whatever, and whether that's Hollister, A&F, or whatever, it's like, all right, well, maybe I was listening to a lot of Phantom Planet or something corporate or something and wearing flip-flops and like the Frayed Brim hat or what have you, and then kind of progressing to college, and it's like, all right, well, maybe I'm listening to the Walkman or Spoon or
01:05:20
Speaker
vampire weekend, it's like, oh, okay, here are the boat shoes, and then here's the Levi's or the Oxford shirt, and then just kind of over time, it just developed, and I think mid, pretty pandemic, and probably mid 2010s, at least for me, that's when I was really thrifting a lot and finding a lot of cool pieces.
01:05:42
Speaker
You really can't, it's like you find a Brooks three and a half width tie. It's like you can't wear that with a J-Crew Ludlow two and three quarters slim jacket or you can't wear it with five tens. I think, again, over time, you just developed and it's like, all right, well, I'm going to switch this out for maybe 501s or I'm getting rid of the boat shoes, I'm going to go loafers.
01:06:10
Speaker
They just snuck up on me to an extent. I don't know if that's a better answer than the osmosis, but that's what I was brainstorming about. I think that's just what happened. Now, I'm a little bit out on, I wouldn't say I'm out on IV, but again, just maybe a little bit more into the granola or the, I really like a lot of the milserp type fits that we're seeing now, so I don't know.
01:06:42
Speaker
And things change. So I mean, I think that's probably what draws a lot of people to the Ivy style. It's like, you know, that can be your base, but then you can kind of pivot in other areas as well. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that like, that's an important aspect of the kind of like clothing landscape right now is that like, you don't just have to be one thing and you can incorporate multiple
01:07:08
Speaker
Um, multiple vibes and pieces that are fine. I use peace. Oh yeah. 100%. I hate that term, but you know, you can incorporate multiple garments into something that like you kind of make yours. Right. Yeah. 100%. You know, John, what about you?
01:07:27
Speaker
I mean, I kind of grew up with it to a certain degree, right? I mean, my, I would say my family is- Well, your dad gave you a pair of old ones. So yeah, you might've been a little predisposed. I mean, yeah, right? I mean, my, it's funny though, because like growing up, so my dad and my uncle both worked at like menswear stores when they were in college back in like the sixties and my dad worked at Brooks Brothers. But like, I remember talking to him one day asking him if he knew what like a 3-2 blazer was. And he looked at me like I had a third eye. Yeah.
01:07:56
Speaker
uh right which which is a whole different conversation but um but no i mean i i always kind of grew up with it uh i i never saw my dad really in um like sport coats and stuff like that just because i think in the south it's just too hot in general but it's funny looking back because like my dad has always been i think very devoted to like the the polo andrew pants and and
01:08:19
Speaker
I think a lot of my style these days is reflected in what he wore even though he never really wore like oxfords casually uh I remember coming home one day wearing one and like a pair of denim and he's like why are you wearing a dress shirt with jeans uh and I remember being like well it's not a dress shirt it's you know a casual shirt or whatever he was like just stop um but no my mom said that same shit to me and she likes is clueless actually it's a sport shirt dad yeah right
01:08:47
Speaker
You wouldn't understand, but back in the 60s, when you were in college, college students were wearing them casually. No, I mean, it was always kind of there for me, right? And I went to Georgia as an SEC school, and I was in Greek life there. So it's always been kind of maybe your trap or whatever you want to call it. But it's always been a bit of a push and pull at times. I've got a crunchier side to me these days, and it's always kind of been there. I'm kind of a hippie at heart, I think.
01:09:16
Speaker
Which also kind of tracks with you going to UGA, no offense. Right, yeah, exactly, right. I mean, I've always had a pair of track pillows and stuff like that. Also, you're really lucky that you missed the Peter Millar era of FRACRO, because holy shit.
01:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, I was at the start of it where everybody was really starting to wear like the Nike game-day polos Which I still have a couple because they're great when it's you know, 100 degrees with 95% humidity and trying to survive But yeah, I mean, you know, I think there's also a bit of me that's also kind of rejected that side of my family You know, I mean like my one of my earliest clothing memories is like black jinkos
01:09:55
Speaker
And so it's always been a bit of a pushback and I think that's kind of how I've ended up where where I am today and Dan to your point I've noticed over the last like year or so
01:10:05
Speaker
I think I've kind of strayed more from the traditional Ivy stuff that I've been wearing for the most part of my life and finding other cooler things in ways that I can incorporate it, but it still feels like me. My wife always gives me a hard time for wearing distressed jeans in high school, jeans with the paint splatter and holes in them, but I still have a new pair of those Levi's today.
01:10:30
Speaker
So it is what it is. I mean, you kind of, you learn things as time goes on. And then for me, a lot of it is also, I sent you guys a message in the Instagram chat that you'll have to take a look at. I think you'll appreciate. And like, so I can find like a lot of my style and what I was wearing in high school and college, but I like to think and hope that it's a better version of what it was back then. Wait, that's you? What's that? That's you?
01:10:59
Speaker
that's me right i mean it's but i mean it's if you if you take the pieces in isolation it's really not too different in like a patagonia snap team and kill two loafers yeah yeah that's what i mean it's like it's funny because you can tell but it's like yeah you've learned what a good break is
01:11:21
Speaker
That's right. And those are, I think, were cut on one side to fit over my boots. Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah. And that's just right. But those are the fun things to look back on. And I've got a picture of me wearing Andrew pants from the early 2000s. But you kind of learn the language of your style, I think, as you get more into it. And you learn, for me at least, that was the interesting part. It's like learning that language, learning what the pieces are, learning about 3-2s and stuff like that, and then kind of finding a way to incorporate it into my stuff.
01:11:50
Speaker
Um, yeah, I mean, I think that's a very long winded answer. No, it's great. That's, that's what this show is all about. We have, we're windbags, both me and Connor. Surely. So you guys are, or if no one has picked up on it, uh, at this point, you're, you're pretty anonymous, uh, both of you. So is that.
01:12:17
Speaker
you know, Connor and I were both wondering, is that like a professional thing or, you know, you guys are obviously we Johns is pretty like pretty well known amongst us nerds, but we don't know a whole lot about you, john, you never really seem to show your face. It's that I've started relaxing that a little bit. I think part of it
01:12:39
Speaker
is being an older millennial and I think growing up with the internet, anonymity on the internet was always big and important. So I think that was it for a while. I've stopped caring as much lately because it really doesn't matter at all.
01:12:57
Speaker
So yeah, but I mean, it's also, I mean, you know, when I post on Instagram or whatever, it's more for me than anything else. So I don't really prioritize being known. It's just a good way to kind of catalog things. I gotcha.
01:13:10
Speaker
Yeah, and John's a little bit more well known than I am, like at least his, his, you know, public style account. Like I, mine is private. Like I don't have a style account at all. Like my Instagram is like photos of my kids and stuff. So yeah. Um, which I also understand. There's that, there's, you know, it's that to a degree, but then it's also just like, you know, I can,
01:13:37
Speaker
I like finding the photos and curating and putting them together, but I don't know. I'm really surprised that it's you. I will say my wardrobe, and I don't know, my wife would probably disagree, but I just don't think I have that great of a wardrobe, if I'm being honest.
01:13:55
Speaker
it's funny dude you gotta get out there it's like you do it's like you have the eye like you just gotta get out there so yeah i mean like if i put something like fairly decent like i will drop it you know in the discord and you know i think i've loosened up on the you know showing the face and you know whatever but um yeah i don't know i i think it's
01:14:18
Speaker
We're not trying to unmask you. I have a better eye of like what other people are doing than necessarily like doing it myself, maybe to a degree. Um, yeah, there's no truth in that, but I don't know. I don't have, like, I'm not the, the king of the Alden loafers, you know, it's like my Alan Edmunds, uh, Patriots that are all scuffed up from wearing them to the office. So.
01:14:46
Speaker
yeah that's the other thing though dan is there are weirdos on the internet uh and for anybody ever posted a loafer picture on reddit uh there's a dude right yeah so many times your feet sweaty right oh that's wait is it the same is it the same like people like are
01:15:09
Speaker
Yes, same dude. Yeah. And like, the handful of us like the like the regulars that from like back in the Reddit days, everybody's had an experience with this person. And like every like three months, somebody will post like a chain being like, Oh, this dude's asking me if I like to wear, you know, socks and my loafers like as anybody else run into this and everybody's like, I know this dude, I love that you wear those ll bean mark lows.
01:15:31
Speaker
Holy shit, I'm never been more thankful to not really be a Reddit person.
Bizarre Interactions and Anonymity Online
01:15:36
Speaker
Yeah, dude, he did me on Instagram. He was like, I love your outfits. But I love your shoes. Yeah, so. Not to keep shame, but it's like, not cool, dude. You can't like it. It's proof that there's a fetish for literally anything.
01:15:52
Speaker
Yeah, which I mean, these are like out even out there. Well, no, no, I'm talking about the loper and the sock thing like, you know, that like that inherently in my mind has no sexual appeal whatsoever. I would call it a foot fetish. I mean, it is a foot fetish, but it's like a subcategory of a foot fetish.
01:16:11
Speaker
Yeah, and I told the dude, I'm like, look, man, you know, you do you, but like, you can't go hitting up people asking about their like sweaty feet and loafers. Like you can't impose whatever your thing is on others, right? Like you got to have it there. That's mutual. And like, stop asking me if I'm wearing socks in my loafers. This might be the most random place that this podcast has ever gone in a interview. Well, this is why there's anonymity on the internet. He's going like, let's find out that actually lives in BC.
01:16:38
Speaker
You can find my link to my only last second hour in the...
01:16:43
Speaker
in the description of this episode. Only last, yeah. Your header is just the Alden last, like, image that's been on the internet forever. Ever? Yeah, and then you can just, like, do sexy videos of your voice over, like, an Edward Green one, and a boss one, and a Crockett and Jones one. Here we are, everyone. Why can't you subscribe? Jesus Christ, I am so sorry. This went... This went fucking south. This show's dead.
01:17:13
Speaker
Yeah, we're gonna get canceled for talking shit on this dude that loves loafers and socks. I don't know. You know, it's funny that it's actually very funny. Yeah. I bet you there's at least one person listening to this who has run into that person on the internet somewhere. Right, right. Yeah. Thank you. I thought I was fucking special. Nope. Yeah, of course. That's the lesson you learned. You all just have the world's worst reply guy in your DMs constantly.
01:17:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's how it goes. But yeah, no, I've started to care lots about anonymity.
01:17:51
Speaker
to bring us back on track. To bring us back on track. Yeah. Well, shit, man. It's been super fun. Definitely going to have to have you guys back on for part two or more. Part six. Yeah. Yeah. Well, technically to realistically six. I'll be sure to come with a better fit next time. No, you're good, man. I'm jealous of the hair, if I'm being honest.
01:18:20
Speaker
But yeah, we always like to give the guests a chance to shout out whatever they would like, their Instagram accounts, their Discord's that they run, etc, etc. Not leading you into anything, but yeah, both of you, give us your shout outs.
01:18:39
Speaker
Check us out on Wee Johns with a Z on Instagram. Shoot us a message. I know it's mostly a mood board account, but we love to chat. So if you have any questions or thoughts, hit us up. My personal account is leisurelyloafing. Nice. And if you've made it this far, you will see that these dudes are great chatters.
01:19:01
Speaker
Very cool. I will shout out my buddy's band. Shout out to Dave and Ian. Their band is called Squint. You can find them on Instagram, Squint STL. They are actually currently abroad right now. So kind of doing their first European tour. So I don't know if they're in, you know, they started in Paris or they might probably play in the UK or more Prague. But if you're in a hardcore kind of a tinge of shoegaze and
01:19:28
Speaker
90s alt-rock. They've got some new singles that are pretty fun, so squint. Nice. I'm going to listen to this probably right after we get out of here because I totally forgot to from the first time we did this interview. Nice. Yeah, give
Sports Team Frustrations
01:19:45
Speaker
it a spin. I'll give it a spin and it sounds like it's going to be at Miami, so I'll probably share it on my Instagram stories too. All right, right on. Hell yeah.
01:19:55
Speaker
you heard it here first you heard it here first squint stl also just personally i like the stl and atl are pretty easy you know city names maybe that's why i've always liked st. Louis i don't know
01:20:10
Speaker
I hate the Cardinals though. Dude, so I had a bunch of family that were from there. I hate them right now too. I hate the Braves or the Falcons most of the time because they're... Is that self-loathing or do you... Atlanta, as you're aware, John, we're choke artists. I'm not a big sports person at this point, but you almost always get disappointed with the
01:20:36
Speaker
Atlanta sports teams. You would think that I would like sports more because I love to be disappointed. It's true. It is true. Matt, I turned off the Falcons game last night with like four minutes left. The last time I went to a show and some friends were watching it on the patio of the menu and it was like 15 to 10 Falcons in like the third quarter. That was the last time I saw what was the final score.
Closing Remarks and Contact Information
01:21:06
Speaker
This is like at like 22, 21, I think. I'm sorry, there's a pair of Allen Edmonds Kilties in Facebook Marketplace right now. Really? They're black bottoms though, which I like. Hang on, wait. Do they have like the bow on them? Are they like tied or are they like tassels? I don't want to click it. Oh, they're tassels, yeah. No, that's a good one. The tied ones are fine as well. I like them both.
01:21:34
Speaker
Yeah. This is going to be one of those things Connor sends me at some point in the near future. And I'm just like, please no. That's good. You'll say no and he'll buy it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know the deal. That's right. Anyway, y'all. Thanks child. All right. Yeah. Thanks. Good catching up with you. Yeah. It's been fun. It's been fun. Looking forward to this for awhile. Hell yeah. No one is going to jinx it, but I think it's going to be fine. I don't know. I dropped a lot.
01:22:04
Speaker
no it was good though you were not really talking as far as i could tell yeah i think we're i think we're solid but yeah agreed yeah everyone thank you for listening um we are at apocalypse duds on instagram apocalypse duds at gmail.com if you would like to send us a straight email uh it'd be cool just tell us to shut the fuck up or compliment us we don't really care we just want to do that
01:22:30
Speaker
I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues. And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Flower. And we will see you soon. Toodaloo. At base.