Transcript
Conor Fowler: Hello, hello. And the birds are chirping here at the Apocalypse Duds headquarters where we sit with no other than Barry Lynn back again.
Conor Fowler: Barry Lynn, a person whose career has put him toe to toe with many people who are even more unpleasant than your two co-hosts this afternoon. ah Barry Lynn has never been removed from a courthouse wall.
Conor Fowler: When Barry Lynn's foot touches yours under the stall divider, dear listener, you can be sure that it was an accident.
Conor Fowler: So welcome, Barry, of course.
Barry Lynn: it's good to be back very
Conor Fowler: Yes, yes, yes.
matt: thanks Thanks for coming on. How are you this almost the end of February somehow day?
Conor Fowler: Amazingly, yeah
Barry Lynn: No, I'm doing fine. mean, I'm delighted the fact that I live now in Massachusetts. A couple of weeks ago, I woke up. It was eight degrees outside. i didn't get up.
matt: Oh, good grief.
Barry Lynn: I didn't go.
Conor Fowler: Good grief is right.
matt: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: It's very frightening.
Conor Fowler: Is that a pink, is that a pink room, Barry? Cause my, my room is pink too.
Barry Lynn: yeah well this is rose a rose-colored room
Conor Fowler: Ah, rose colored room.
Barry Lynn: yeah
matt: ah
Conor Fowler: That's the episode title right there.
Barry Lynn: and
matt: There you go.
Conor Fowler: ah
Barry Lynn: your But I have a white photo.
Barry Lynn: are over to my left and you can't really see them but one of them is interesting you may you may be interested in this it's a picture of oliver north looking at ah television screen and of course with north i used to do every friday afternoon with him for years
matt: you
Conor Fowler: Right, right.
Barry Lynn: um and i'm on TV in the monitor that he's got behind him and it says, Barry, can I never escape you?
Barry Lynn: So he's a man, you know, a lot of people had a lot of trouble with him, as I think I did, but I have to say the guy had a sense of humor and he was, we used to do things,
matt: ah
Barry Lynn: when we were tired of talking about serious things like once once we attempted to convince people that we were the people because we were a talk show host who weren't supposed to take the overflow during the do not call weekend, which is when you were supposed to be able to call a number in the federal government and then they would take you off the list so you didn't get all these annoying calls.
Conor Fowler: Those were the days.
Barry Lynn: Those were, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Those were the halcyon days of the federal government's effectiveness, responsiveness even.
Barry Lynn: But it, you got it, but it didn't work too well and it was,
Conor Fowler: no. No.
Barry Lynn: So we started talking about the Supreme Court, then the producer comes up. A gentleman, he always called us gentlemen. I don't know why. The White House has asked all talk show hosts to take the overflow, the calls from people who don't want to get calls about anything.
Barry Lynn: Will you guys do it? So of course we of course we will. So every line, 10 12 lines, they lit up instantly.
Conor Fowler: Sure.
Barry Lynn: and the first woman calls in and says she wants to get off the month you know i' put on the do i call with And I said, let me just ask you a question.
Barry Lynn: but Are you overweight? And North, you can't ask that.
Conor Fowler: Sure.
Barry Lynn: And I said, well, there might be a little asterisk that wants to be off the list, except for weight loss programs that should.
Barry Lynn: And it just went on and on. i'm convinced every single first to talk to his thought we had somehow magically put them on the
matt: Right, right.
Barry Lynn: yeah
Conor Fowler: Well, and that's the that's the beauty of bureaucracy, right? you don't know whether You don't know how many people are doing the task. It just gets done.
Barry Lynn: ah's Sure.
Conor Fowler: As we're seeing now, is not happening.
Barry Lynn: not happening at all well yeah i'm sure you didn't need to hear that but what's on your mind
matt: Yeah.
matt: ah We were going to kind of start with, you know, just as someone that like yourself, that has been around you know the political circle for a very long time, 2025 so far, what's the lay of the land in your opinion?
Barry Lynn: it's desolate
matt: ah yeah
Barry Lynn: exist You know, I've been through the Reagan administration and through the Bush years, and there is nothing, there is no president who has ever acted this way, and no collection of nitwits who are in the cabinet anything close to the idiots that we now have.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Barry Lynn: we have people let me just start with r of k j and and <unk> because we know he had a worm in his brain for a while and i that's probably you know had some negative effect a it could have had a positive effect because a guy does Yesterday in a press conference, he announces that the measles outbreak in the state of Texas, which is now migrating into New Mexico, is just routine. It happens all the time.
Barry Lynn: It doesn't happen all the time.
matt: Oh, yes.
Barry Lynn: And it's it's potentially fatal if you get something called encephalopathy. measles encephalopathy have learned how to pronounce that for my wife, physician, but this is, it literally rots your brain.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: And i don't know if either of you had mothers printed to you books by Ruol Dahl.
Conor Fowler: Of course.
matt: oh yes
Barry Lynn: Okay. do Do you know he had his oldest daughter died of measles encephalopathy and he wrote a little piece about it right before he died. And, um, it's horrible.
Barry Lynn: He said he was making uh,
Barry Lynn: animals out of pipe cleaners, you know, which is like the highest form of art I do.
Conor Fowler: He he.
Barry Lynn: And she just didn't seem to be making sense. Three hours later, she went into a coma. 12 hours later, she was dead.
matt: Holy shit.
Barry Lynn: That's how serious it is. And when our own son had cancer when he was five he he went to school he wanted to go to school and he could go to school because we knew that the kids in his class were vaccinated if
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: there weren't couldn't send them to school and that's that's the story thousands and thousands of families they have very sick kids they don't want to send them into a rome ah home room a classroom where lots of the kids are not vaccinated.
Barry Lynn: And so, and he didn't know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid.
matt: right Yeah.
Barry Lynn: so this guy is a brilliant
Conor Fowler: well it's like the best thing you could say about him is that he has brain worms.
Barry Lynn: it is it is a compliment
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's a nice way of explaining behavior.
matt: I mean, I feel like if you're if you're a Kennedy that the Kennedy family has disowned, that's a pretty fucking big like red flag.
Conor Fowler: You really got to be you really got to be messing up with the Kennedy family to kick you out. I mean, they're not like entombing you.
Barry Lynn: Yeah, I mean, the Kennedys, they had issues, but, whatever.
Conor Fowler: ah yeah That's like that's like what ah what they say about, um I don't know, elon Musk, not a very nice man.
matt: Oh, yeah.
Barry Lynn: No, no.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: but
Barry Lynn: so
Conor Fowler: It's like understatement and euphemism.
Barry Lynn: You know, Elon Musk, when his program was still called Twitter, I attempted to advertise my trilogy memoir, Paid to Piss People Off.
Barry Lynn: so That's the book. That's the first one.
Conor Fowler: dot that ah Right here.
Barry Lynn: I thank you.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah.
Barry Lynn: there is
Conor Fowler: and we've got a series of books here. Three parter in order.
Barry Lynn: And prayer, all through me. I tried to pay him. Within an hour, somebody on his staff sent back the letter and they said, we're not going to be able to take your ads because it contains materials that may be offensive.
Barry Lynn: Now, what's offensive about those pictures?
matt: wow
Conor Fowler: Yeah, because it started a while ago, this started a while ago.
Barry Lynn: Oh, absolutely. And he... you you know pay to piss people off piss of course one of the seven dirty words george carlin used they got a arrest doing that.
matt: yeah
Barry Lynn: But maybe it's the same. hor which has a picture of a ah statue behind ed mes ahead of the justice department at the time and the statue of the gods of justice for your art command has
Barry Lynn: breast that you can see
Conor Fowler: That's right there is a breast on here
Barry Lynn: i stand for and i'm not
Conor Fowler: for those of you listeners who are in our special ah video podcasting club there, this is some explicit sculpture here.
Barry Lynn: yeah
Barry Lynn: There it is, and that was, yeah, and I did, i may have mentioned this the last time I was on, but I used to refer to that photograph as the two boobs photograph.
Barry Lynn: It's never really not polite, and I try to be polite, but I can't. But there's some people that are just so bad, and I'd be so close to it.
Conor Fowler: I think politeness has gotten us here basically to an extent anyway. I mean, I think that like
matt: yeah be Be polite to actually you know rational human beings.
Conor Fowler: people who, people who, like humanity of all humans on this earth.
matt: Yeah. like you You can't be a fucking asshole and not expect someone to like be mean to you.
Barry Lynn: That's correct.
matt: These thin-skinned motherfuckers. Right.
Barry Lynn: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Barry Lynn: Thin skin. It's, a it' you know, if you have very thin skin, I understand. can't get a tattoo
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: true
Conor Fowler: Right.
Barry Lynn: but i would think that both of you probably you probably contemplate but even have a tatoo can i ask you if you either of you has a tattoo
matt: i Yeah, I have a decent amount.
Barry Lynn: Okay.
Conor Fowler: I have none, but I'm thinking of getting some. I'm i'm not going to disclose. Well, I'm getting a gallon of milk tattoo.
Barry Lynn: elephant
Conor Fowler: There's more detail, but it's okay. That's just a figure at the moment.
Barry Lynn: I'm a missing child on it.
Conor Fowler: no No, not a milk carton. A gallon of milk.
Barry Lynn: a gallon of milk in a carton.
Conor Fowler: done
matt: It's true.
Conor Fowler: I thought it was a half gallon in a carton.
Barry Lynn: Now you can get can get either
Barry Lynn: Or a gallon.
Conor Fowler: But I'm saying commonly, at least in my life, the denomination is a jug. And that's what I want on my body because my flesh is the same color.
Barry Lynn: Okay.
Conor Fowler: And I'd like to highlight that even more.
Barry Lynn: Well, don't use the word yoga anymore or you'll get from Twitter. What they call X now. Why is it?
matt: No, it's still Twitter.
Conor Fowler: you can't call it X.
matt: It's still Twitter.
Barry Lynn: yeah
Conor Fowler: Cause then you are letting the weird Nazi dorks win.
Barry Lynn: yeah i think that's true it's um yeah he's terrible and you know most of these things that he's looking for the the statements that he's looked for are politico has been examining the contracts that he claims are filled with fraudt and abuse and and most cases they they aren't they They were never even signed, or they reflect expenditures that never occurred. This guy, everybody, every president that I have ever listened to since isa Eisenhower, Eisenhower on radio, every president wants to end waste, fraud, and abuse.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: and it never happens and one of it one of the reasons according to courses to trump is that but people just don't look hard enough But they do look hard, and it's very hard to find waste fraud, and abuse that makes any difference yeah enough and the federal spending.
Conor Fowler: it's this idea that like, they're always looking for voter fraud, which just isn't really happening.
Barry Lynn: Correct.
Conor Fowler: Right. And they're doing voter intimidation, but they're not talking about that.
Barry Lynn: of course not of course not
Conor Fowler: And so it's that kind of like Bing Bao, like, yeah.
matt: Well, it also makes me think of like the USPS situation.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Republicans, the playbook, my entire 41 years on this planet, and I guess starting with Reagan, has been to like... you know, essentially say, you know, X agency or whatever is, is, uh, fucking up, but they're hamstringing all these agencies and programs and things so that then they can point and say, oh yeah, this is why we need to privatize things because USPS is losing money.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Like motherfucker, it's a service. It's ah it's supposed, like it's not,
Conor Fowler: It doesn't have to be profitable.
matt: Yeah, they do things that, you know, them specifically, I'm i'm very passionate about the Postal Service because it rules for the most part. um
Conor Fowler: but it's your It's your vocation, right?
matt: But like, yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's like your business.
matt: I mean, I, yeah, I mean, I've i shipped, you know, tens of thousands of packages over the years with the USPS.
Conor Fowler: It's a vital part of your work
matt: What other private company can get something from here to fucking, from Atlanta, Georgia to California in two days? No.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Barry Lynn: so i mean, leave you but.
Conor Fowler: No, and it's...
Barry Lynn: That's correct. Oh, yeah. eighty dollars they might but
matt: Right, right, yeah.
Conor Fowler: You wouldn't have you know?
matt: like i can I can do USPS Express or I can pay $9.20, whatever a flat rate padded envelope is now. I think i think that's it. And you know it's there in two days and the customer and myself are both happy.
Barry Lynn: that's correct
Conor Fowler: And FedEx is anti-union too. Like, you yeah.
matt: Yeah, fuck FedEx.
Barry Lynn: ah
matt: in it
Barry Lynn: i
Conor Fowler: Cause they're like the big, they that's like a big, they're the big Memphis outfit, right?
Barry Lynn: I mean, did the frightening thing about the last election is when you look at the number of African-Americans who voted for him, you look at the number of Hispanic males mainly who voted for him, and you look at the number of union members who voted for him, and it's shocking.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: like you know
Barry Lynn: ah try to be a good person and i gotta to tell you television says I voted for Trump. I'm a member of the United Auto Workers Union. I voted for him.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: And now i I might get screwed by the tariffs. I say, well, look into it before you vote. Don't blame, don't moan about it.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: And if I, don't get me started on Democrats who don't do much of anything.
matt: Yeah, I was going to say, like the but Democratic Party has done very little in um my lifetime for who for the people that have been their base since the dawn of fucking time.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, we'd love to get started on Democrats, frankly.
Barry Lynn: Very well.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: yeah Well, what they do, what they could do now, see, they're very nervous about everything. They're nervous about their own reelections. And so they don't do anything that might make them look bad.
Barry Lynn: Now, think of all the things that the Trump folks did in the first term and look at the stuff they've done in the last six weeks. They're doing all kinds of nutty things.
Barry Lynn: They don't care about it.
matt: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: But here are some things. democrats could do in the senate most of the senate business is conducted through something called unanimous consent that is everybody just agrees we don't waste time with it would just agree to move on to something else but you know
Conor Fowler: great way of doing this.
matt: Right, right, yeah.
Barry Lynn: no After the prayer in the morning, which the the Senate does every every day, and um nobody actually listens to it, of course, but it's but then they do unanimous consent to dispose of the reading of the last day's record.
Barry Lynn: In other words, a congressional record from the day before. And it always passes by unanimous consent. but some
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: but could just say wait no i object and they have to take a vote on and then they have to take a vote and get sixty people on the floor to vote
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: that causes another wonderful thing that i used to do with democrats and republicans suggest the absence of a quorum we remember sixty
matt: right
Barry Lynn: then you have to They have to drag those people out. They have to come to the floor, and then they can vote. Why not waste time? Who cares what it takes?
Barry Lynn: What in the hell is the United States Senate likely to do in its minority position when it can't even get most of the chairs of the committees in the Senate to even pay attention to what the Democrats are saying?
Barry Lynn: Nothing is going to happen.
matt: Right. ever
Barry Lynn: terribly important.
matt: the There's a ah a viral tweet from 2018 that lives ring-free in my head that is, the last decade has been the Democrats clinging on to the rule book going, but a dog can't play basketball while a dog fucking dunks on us over and over.
Barry Lynn: It's terrible. I'm not a big fan of
matt: Like, if that doesn't if that doesn't sum up at least the past, i don't know, 15, 20 years,
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: that
Barry Lynn: it's it's terrible and you know i'm not a big fan of third parties because i don't don't expect to live long enough for one to ever become significant enough but at least they stand for something.
Barry Lynn: And if you, it is famously said, if you stand for nothing, you fall for anything.
matt: yeah
Barry Lynn: think the famous rock singer said that, although I don't remember who it was.
matt: yeah
Barry Lynn: But it wasn't Bob Dylan.
matt: ah Who was that?
Conor Fowler: That's kind of like Bob, doesn't it?
matt: It kind of does. or Neil, maybe?
Barry Lynn: Could be Neil Young, yeah.
matt: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: Could be.
matt: I know the quote. i cannot I cannot remember who said it first.
Barry Lynn: Yeah. Well,
Conor Fowler: I'm looking.
Barry Lynn: Perhaps your co-host will go deep into his brain and find not a worm, but the answer to this question.
matt: Yeah, Avengers Connor.
Conor Fowler: Uh, so this, uh, wow. So it's attributed to Alexander Hamilton actually.
matt: Oh, interesting.
Barry Lynn: Okay.
Conor Fowler: ah but I'm pretty sure that it's in a song too. I'm still, we're doing some research here at the HQ.
Barry Lynn: don't think he had a but he might have had a
Barry Lynn: but he didn't
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: oh oh wait, du did was it a Lin-Manuel Miranda song?
Conor Fowler: Perhaps. No.
Barry Lynn: No, it's the day it lands.
Conor Fowler: ah
Barry Lynn: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: yeah. Misattributed to cause like Google is so shitty now that it's impossible really to find anything.
Barry Lynn: yeah
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: um
Conor Fowler: Yeah, this is really amazing because it's like there are so many results for Hamilton, which is ah right is a musical about Hamilton, but it's a mystery anyway.
matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: So it's impossible to find anything because there's so much shit.
Barry Lynn: and Forget it. You know, it's one of those things. It doesn't matter.
matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: At the end of the day, probably doesn't matter very much, at least not to our not to our busy listeners.
Barry Lynn: Of course, they have other things to do. i mean, once they finish listening, do people eat while they listen to this show?
Conor Fowler: Not our fans, no. Everyone ah who's listening to this show is doing it with their eyes and ears forced open.
Barry Lynn: kidding
Conor Fowler: Like a clock orange. Yeah, it's really...
matt: Well, good.
Barry Lynn: Well, now, you you ah suggested maybe we should chat a little bit about church-state separation, which is something I did for a very, very long time, a quarter of a century, running Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
Barry Lynn: And things were... not looking great at the end of my ten years but now
matt: Yeah, yeah. We were going to ask, you know, how the Christian nationalist ah tactics have kind of changed over your, you know, over the span of your life and career.
Barry Lynn: Yeah, I mean, in some ways it didn't change very much. They always were concerned mostly with making sure that they had younger ah people who could fill in, you know, that they might get elected to the school board.
Barry Lynn: And then if they were right-wing enough and Christian enough, as they define what it is to be a Christian, then maybe by the time they hit their 30s, they run college.
Conor Fowler: Thanks.
Barry Lynn: and ralph reid who na predate you but he talk about my age and he ran pat robertson's one for the presidency actually ran for the presidency once.
Barry Lynn: and And then he got the mailing list from the Pat Robertson for president, which is a great, that's a, you want to start a nonprofit or a political action committee, make sure you have access to some really good lists because those are the ones you're going to go to first.
matt: Thank you.
Barry Lynn: Those are the ones that have a built-in interest in whatever you're promoting. And those are the people who are going to send money first and that's how you get raise more money But Reid always said he would rather have 65 people in the House than the President of the United States because they can be manipulated.
Conor Fowler: Well, and that's how it's written in the constitution.
Barry Lynn: Of course.
Conor Fowler: That's the function of it. And that is the function of the whole body.
Barry Lynn: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: so it just is like the, you're right. The Republicans have gotten lower offices in huge amounts. And I think that that has been very effective.
Barry Lynn: It's been very, any other thing is you don't back down. That's john Tom Petty. Don't back down.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: Right, yes.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: I didn't want you to think that at the age of 76, I wasn't listening to rock and roll anymore because I am.
Conor Fowler: But of course,
Barry Lynn: But you say boo to most Democrats and they oh, we've had to think about it. They cover your face and they think about it and then they hope they never have to vote on it.
matt: Right.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: It's not leadership. Leadership is when you say you say this is what i believe these are the things i stand for don't distract me worrying about drag queens had a library in some other state
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: these are the things that matter and these are what this is what we're going to do and the other side doesn't want to do it don't tell me well you know where we like might run out of money for Social Security we don't want to think about it too much but things like Medicaid those people are probably too poor to even vote just they don't have time to find your way to get to the polling plate
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: so we can mess with them and when you start talking about idiots are talking about
Barry Lynn: hundreds of billions of dollars cut from the people in some counties, in some red states. As many as 55% of the people living in those counties depend on Medicaid.
matt: hundred percent
Barry Lynn: Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's absolutely shocking. But he then you have Elon Musk who goes to one of the, i used to go to these right-wing conferences and for a year or two I could actually kind of go incognito.
Barry Lynn: But then I was on television with so many of these people for so many times.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: I couldn't, they could just, people come up to me, go, can I have your autograph? I who was watching on TV with, and then they made some right there. Just to show how non-capitalist I am, I am.
Barry Lynn: I didn't charge him for it. I would just sign it. I used to say, $8.95, please, and I'll sign your piece of paper.
Barry Lynn: But I didn't do that.
matt: Right, right, because you're a
Barry Lynn: yeah
Conor Fowler: Did you wear a disguise?
Barry Lynn: What?
Conor Fowler: You said you went incognito. Did you wear a disguise?
Barry Lynn: no I don't know. I'd just been hired. I mean, i would just wander around. Nobody would
Conor Fowler: ah So you weren't at the height of your...
Barry Lynn: and
Conor Fowler: i see
Barry Lynn: I mean, the first two years, I think, I was pretty, I'm not, but 25th year, you know, I couldn't go anywhere close to a right winger. And they, I mean, on the street occasionally, remember it was Chicago once, I had just spoken to the National Education Association about public schools, you know, which, have problems but they're way better than any alternatives at any
matt: right
Barry Lynn: particularly the wife of the worldwide wrestling federation
matt: Oh, God.
Barry Lynn: You know, actually,
matt: I kind of forgot that that ah Linda McMahon was in this administration until just now.
Barry Lynn: yeah.
matt: And I'm really, really mad that you brought that up to my attention again.
Barry Lynn: If you watch the Netflix special on McMahon, on her husband, and on professional wrestling, and I don't want to be too crass here because i was a, when I was in junior high school, I didn't, I couldn't drive.
Barry Lynn: My parents wouldn't drive me anywhere like to see a professional wrestling match in philadelphia who lived in bethle pennsylvania
Conor Fowler: Uh-huh.
Barry Lynn: but I watched that, and I saw the these tens of thousands of people all cheering the worst of the worst professional wrestlers of their generation, which is kind a half a generation beyond where I was interested in it.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: But I thought, God, you know, these people could all vote for Trump. It was the first time.
matt: It's true.
Barry Lynn: It was the first time. i was with
Barry Lynn: the night that there was this alleged assassination attempt on the president and so the comedians changed some of the jokes and everybody said and I think most people believed it I mean I i believed it at the time like you you don't get anywhere with political violence that turns out to be a lie because you do because you get pardoned and it's not only the people who
Conor Fowler: Bless his heart.
matt: Right.
matt: right
Barry Lynn: were at the capitol and yelling and screaming or breaking a window, but people who killed police officers also were pardoned. Nobody expected him that.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, armed.
Barry Lynn: And then when you go through the list, all the people that were prosecuted for violating the rights of women to go health centers to obtain an abortion, those creeps were pardoned also.
Barry Lynn: So don't, you know, let's not get too blasé about this. if you
matt: hundred percent
Barry Lynn: you have if you commit acts of political violence and then the person that he's on the outs, gets on the in, they'll pardon you.
Barry Lynn: That's the lesson to be learned from what Trump has done. When people call me now, because the do not call list is just a joke, they call to raise money for these police foundations and they go, you we we represent a police, political action committee.
matt: Totally.
Barry Lynn: And I go, no oh no, I'm, I'm not for the police. I'm with Donald Trump. Shoot him. That's okay. I mean, so what?
Barry Lynn: This is the kind of hate. These people do not care about anybody, anything, except themselves and their pocketbooks.
matt: No.
matt: Yeah. And like, it's, you know, it's, it's a big thing to dunk on these people on whatever, you know, whatever platform that you use, but they don't respond to that.
matt: They, they, like you said, don't give a shit about anyone except for themselves and, the people that are paying and lining their pockets and you know, the other fucking oligarchs that run in their circles.
matt: That's it.
Barry Lynn: yeah i mean they're all upset about dei and now these private companies they' to care what the opinion of the president is on diversity.
matt: No, no.
Barry Lynn: But they're starting because they all have interests. I just...
Conor Fowler: They're all showing their ass. I mean, it's like everyone is showing their ass.
matt: Yeah. Well, I,
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Barry Lynn: Of course, it's...
matt: I have said to many people ah that I talk to regularly, to early pandemic, 2020, the but like increased ah you know pay for unemployment, et cetera, et cetera.
matt: like All of the things that that we saw showed what the federal government is actually capable of. And it scared the shit out of everyone in a certain you know above a certain pay grade.
matt: Which, you know, also, i had high hopes in after the uprising in 2020 that that we might see, a you know, kind of FDR point 2.0 with Biden and it didn't fucking happen.
Barry Lynn: It did not. Yes,
matt: Like they that would have like basically shored up support for the Democratic Party for a general almost a generation, just like the New Deal did.
matt: And it it didn't happen because, you know, the CEOs of Delta and, you know, Jeff Bezos and all these ah other assholes, like, they control things.
Barry Lynn: yeah same too
matt: Yeah. And it's fucking, it's it's maddening to, like, think about how, you know, how much better we could be as a society five years from then.
Conor Fowler: Matt.
matt: and and And we're back to, you know, we're back to like just post 9-11 shit, essentially.
Conor Fowler: Seriously.
matt: but
Conor Fowler: Seriously. Well, Matt talks about the, uh, the football being removed from the peanuts cartoon. Like this being the Democrats, like the Democrats have the fucking football yanked out from one of them every time.
matt: Oh, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Well, it's like they, it's like they have a special talent for it because it's deliberate.
matt: Yeah. but
Conor Fowler: Right? Like,
matt: Oh, I definitely think it's deliberate.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it's they all they all reach a certain income bracket and then it's like, oh shit, we're got to own.
Barry Lynn: hit been
matt: I mean, to bring up George Carlin again, you know it's a big club and you ain't in it.
Conor Fowler: hmm.
Conor Fowler: Right.
matt: You and I are not in the fucking club.
Barry Lynn: That is absolutely right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: I think there are some really there's good work that's being done by some of the places that you can usually get to most of their material without hitting a paywall.
Barry Lynn: But like which has been around for a long
Conor Fowler: Sure.
Barry Lynn: but to
Conor Fowler: One of the first blogs, basically.
Barry Lynn: eyes and and and a great blog and i mean
Barry Lynn: There's a Barry Lynn with a C, not a W. Barry C. Lynn, and he's a big anti-Walmart guy. And he, but he, yeah, we used to get each other's phone calls, including in the middle of the night.
Conor Fowler: she God bless him.
Barry Lynn: and Which is, you know, is Barry Lynn? I don't know. But I am. but Oh, yeah. they just made an announcement about some antitrust thing.
Barry Lynn: like, no, that's the other guy calling it.
Conor Fowler: sure
Barry Lynn: But, but, but, did something where they screwed the two of us up. And then for a long time, he said, well, you could just write for us for a while. Did that for a while.
Barry Lynn: And, uh, but it's even better. I mean, it's much better. It's much, the satire is much better. We don't have many satirists around, uh,
Conor Fowler: Well, Gawker is gone. And Gawker, I don't know. I mean, I think a lot of the their work is underappreciated.
matt: I gotta say, though, the Onion has been on fire for the past few years.
Barry Lynn: And
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: yeah Again, again.
Barry Lynn: who else do I read every day? don't know. But anyway, there are very few, but there's there are no people like the satirists that I suspect you don't know until I'm old.
Barry Lynn: You're not old. Paul Krasner.
Conor Fowler: Like Thomas Nast.
Barry Lynn: Paul Krasner is a good friend, and he was
matt: Oh, yeah.
Barry Lynn: the editor of something called the realist and it came on kind of newsprint every month. And he was the most brilliant satirist that I've ever read.
Barry Lynn: he i think he was even better than Carlin was. And he he eventually got very sick, and he died a few years ago. But he would do things.
Barry Lynn: he He did the most dramatic thing that he wrote, and you can still find this on the internet
Barry Lynn: william manchester's book about the assassination of kennedy
Conor Fowler: Sure.
Barry Lynn: franner said was missing how
matt: Thank you.
Barry Lynn: want you to be snow off the internet but that lyndon johnson was actually having sex with kennedy's body on the plane from texas so wash
Conor Fowler: Well done, well done. I like that sort of thing.
Barry Lynn: And then, so I came to the college to do, we did a protest at the Army War College, which was located at the time and probably still is in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where went to college.
Conor Fowler: Very good.
Barry Lynn: And so he came and they were having an art exhibit of student art with this really pompous professor of art. And so I went in and I took a center for me
Barry Lynn: disney characters all engaged in the kinds of activities that they should not have been engaged in, like sex between a mouse or have a dumbo He was so...
matt: Yes.
Conor Fowler: who Who knew where we would go on this program? I mean, that oh, the places you'll go.
Barry Lynn: oh
Conor Fowler: ah We've got Ariel and Ursula. They're doing it. Everyone's doing it. All the Disney characters. They've got it going on.
Barry Lynn: he was so professor was so mad he ripped it down and never I don't think he ever spoke to me again but who cares you know at some point you just lose he just loses interest in what people think about you or what they say about you you just go okay I don't agree with you yeah we could say that but you disagree without being disagreeable please don't say that
Conor Fowler: Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree. right Yeah, some stupid shit like that.
Barry Lynn: Because no rock star has ever said that.
Conor Fowler: No, no, no. And i'm not I'm not very agreeable to begin with. My roommate in... so Well, he wasn't my roommate. He was my friend's roommate. He was a great artist.
Conor Fowler: So he drew penises on everything like photorealistic, shaded, detailed. ah just Just amazing. I think in the same vein, no pun intended.
Conor Fowler: ah
Barry Lynn: got it
Conor Fowler: So where are we going?
Barry Lynn: i
Conor Fowler: Shirley. where have we gone ah
Barry Lynn: Did you want to know about the two worst things that could happen to church-state separation in the next few months?
matt: Yes.
Conor Fowler: surely
Barry Lynn: Two big Supreme Court cases.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: There are these entities now in many states and including of columbia were used to live that are called charter schools and they are public schools but they don't have certain kind of regulations attached to them and i remember ralph nader uh you know i knew i don't i don't have much contact with him anymore but he he calls me one day and he says he's on the board of this foundation you're thinking of giving a lot of money for charter school program test program some state
matt: right
Conor Fowler: Sure.
Barry Lynn: i said well that's a dumb idea he said well this we're having lunch come over them eat a sandwich and then tell them what's wrong with this and if there are rules and regulations that are no good why don't you just say you know no school has to obey them why say well if you apply to be a charter school because you don't like red tape of this kind or that kind if it's no good then get rid of it for everybody and don't let that become the excuse but most importantly you can't be a religious
Barry Lynn: institution and have the school think of all the private schools you know Almost all of them are run by religious groups, many from the Catholic Church.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: And that's fine. I mean, if you want to do that, fine. But you're not supposed to be getting any public funds. Now, two schools, two religious schools, have sued, and the court case is coming up in a few weeks, that they want to be able to specifically promote catholic theology and get state funds to do so.
Barry Lynn: That's unheard of. That has never happened.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: Why did the court take this? Actually, they take it because they want to make sure that the majority view of the nine members of the court is reflected in the decision.
Barry Lynn: So they if they believe that they will be able to allow these so-called charter schools
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: to teach religion okay that's bad shortly thereafter a week or two later they're going to argue case from I think from the state of Maryland where I used to live and a group of parents got upset because their children had been exposed to some stories about LGBTQ plus people including a book called
Conor Fowler: Wow.
Barry Lynn: puppy pride where a puppy gets lost at an LGBTQ plus parade.
Conor Fowler: wow
Barry Lynn: they said our children, their their religious values will be compromised by this. Now this has been going on for a long time and they want to be, they want to opt out of it. That's the first step. And I'm afraid to court
Barry Lynn: but Then the next time this comes up, what the parents do is, you know, but there's a whole series of books. I remember one series by Holt, H-O-L-T, a big publishing company.
Conor Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Barry Lynn: And they said, there's so much in this whole series of books that's used from eight, grades four to six. We don't want them to be used for any more.
Barry Lynn: So in other words, you start out and say, well, I don't my child. in my Snowflake family, and be exposed to some kind of lesbian stuff.
Barry Lynn: Now they say, we don't want you to use this entire raft of books, this entire series, because they're all compromised, because they have have to some kind of bad stuff in them.
Barry Lynn: And what most school districts do, they don't want to hear this. There are some very courageous librarians and people on state schools.
Conor Fowler: Ooh, that's true. That's really true. And librarians sort of bear the brunt of this weirdly.
matt: Librarians should run everything, if I'm being honest.
Conor Fowler: real.
Barry Lynn: I think that, yeah, except, a yeah, they probably should. The two favorite groups I had talked to talk to were witches and librarians.
matt: fantastic.
Barry Lynn: I used to do a podcast, another podcast, where I had it somebody on every every Thursday. And I had this wonderful Wiccan priestess out in the Midwest, very, very nice person.
Barry Lynn: And I mentioned this to her and then I just said, oh, by the way, is there some kind of subgroup that I could talk to? Wiccan librarians.
Barry Lynn: I would love to talk to them.
Conor Fowler: yeah Yeah, that's the truth right there.
Barry Lynn: don't know.
Barry Lynn: So if censorship based on religion can get your kid out of a class and then maybe two years from now can get them out of having to deal with an entire set of books yeah classroom
Barry Lynn: religiously based censorship has won. And it hasn't won much so far. but this will be the opening val opening
matt: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: in what
matt: I mean,
Barry Lynn: struck if to change correct
matt: i feel like that you know that also goes back into the conservative playbook, which is you know essentially demonizing an entire group ah or idea or whatever under the guise of like, oh, we're just expressing our free speech to to not take part of this.
Conor Fowler: Truly a
matt: And it's like... That kind of falls apart. I mean, honestly, everything they say falls apart if you really, really look into it. But it's it's the same shit, just day in, day out with them.
Barry Lynn: and i really want people to be stupid i mean
matt: Yeah, oh yeah.
Barry Lynn: just One more point on charter schools. when they When there's a place like Arizona where they have charter schools and private schools that aren't getting funded and then there are public schools, guess what group of schools comes out lowest in all of the test scores?
Barry Lynn: Charter schools.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: They come out...
Conor Fowler: Oh yeah, they're bad. I mean, we have them in in Baltimore. ah Not as many as there used to be because of course they showed their ass in the way that they do. Right. When that kind of thing comes to town. ah Yeah. It's like so weirdly, ah weirdly prison close to the prison Industrial complex. I mean, that that kind of thinking, like really being rationing, it's just just like bad.
Conor Fowler: These are these are people here in the schools that I work in.
Barry Lynn: i mean it's it's just terrible you know for public schools do they have problems yes we've all
matt: Oh, absolutely.
Barry Lynn: you know, I went to a high school of 1,100 students in its graduating class, not in the whole school, 1,100 students. And it was a big school.
Barry Lynn: And things got screwed up, and there were racial incidents.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: and there But never, it's 100 times better than forming a little school for you and six people in your cave dwelling.
Barry Lynn: and then you go to the other caves where people that are just like you roll
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: listening That's the worst. You don't you cannot have a decent country, a well-kept society that doesn't recognize that there are people with different ideas that look different, that have different religious or non-religious beliefs.
Barry Lynn: If you don't share in the idea that we have a village of people and they don't all look then the country instead
matt: Totally. so And like as and as a very staunch atheist, ah maybe I brought this up the last time that that you were on, but I grew up Southern Baptist, you know, have have in my adult life transitioned to being like very much an atheist.
Conor Fowler: man.
matt: I don't give a fuck if someone, find you know, gets something out of their religion as long as like you're not harming people and it's bettering you as a human being.
matt: Do I want, you know, do I want a bunch of like white supremacist evangelical people to, to like, you know, be around and have their little echo chamber?
matt: Fuck no, because that's not reality.
Barry Lynn: that's correct and
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: of the day yeah the third most interesting group i my like to talk to were atheists
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: but they were and every time I'd speak at some atheist convention or something that whoever would introduce me would say well Barry is not an atheist but he's the only theist I know that I don't want to convert to atheism you know and that's that's good and but and the convert
matt: Right, right.
Barry Lynn: you know the the dropoff in organized religion is intense. Maybe people should think about that a little bit more within the Protestant mainstream. Catholic Church is still very, very strong in many, many states.
Barry Lynn: But even there, if you do, as we did once, focus groups on Catholic churchgoers. i mean, these were not fallen Catholics. so These are people are going to church.
Barry Lynn: And You'd have the moderator say something like, well, I mean, but do you believe everything that the priest says? I'll never forget one guy who said, well, I believe everything until they start talking about contraception and that they're against it.
Barry Lynn: Then I stop listening.
Conor Fowler: yeah
Barry Lynn: but And there's a whole organization you might want to talk to themselves.
Barry Lynn: and so it's so wonderful organization and the name the person who' is running it now but they but they they're basically saying look we're Catholics, but we are in favor of choice. And of course, the Catholic Church used to be in favor of choice.
matt: Right, 100%. Certainly,
Barry Lynn: And the Southern Baptist Convention, you know, when Roe versus Wade was first passed, the guy who was their kind of commenter on all things public that happened was asked what he thought. And he said, this is probably a good decision because it takes it out of the real of portion out of the real of policy and into the realm of morality where people can make up their own
matt: certainly. certainly
Barry Lynn: He later became the chair of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. That's how he was. They threw him out eventually, and that's that's where he decided to land.
Barry Lynn: I mean, an extraordinary change. If you look at plug one other thing that had nothing to do with but and you heard my friend john fuel was
Barry Lynn: he does a talk show on sirius x m and he's coming out with a book called separation of church and hate And he says, beginning out, he's not a theologian.
Barry Lynn: He's not a Bible scholar. But he just wants people to understand what the Bible really says, what it doesn't say.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: And, of course, most of the stuff that the Christian nationalists say has nothing to do with the Bible. Or if it does, it might be in some letter of Paul, who, of course, was not Jesus.
Barry Lynn: And he was a guy who... conourion
Barry Lynn: but He's a theologian. I mean, he's most different than Barry Lynn, Jerry Falwell. They're just people with opinions. He didn't, and I think it's a great book. I hope it does very well, Separation of Church
matt: Yeah, I've seen some of that dude's writing and he seems to be pretty on the level.
Barry Lynn: Yeah, he is. He is.
matt: Yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, I feel like as as I've gotten older i and, and you know, have have not
matt: have not had, you know, a God figure in my life. Like, I understand Jesus' weight and certain parts of varying religions way more because it's basically you just like how to be a good person if you if you really boil it down to like what it's supposed to be.
Barry Lynn: right
Conor Fowler: Amen. but
matt: Yeah, and and it fucking sucks that these assholes have like commandeered all this.
Barry Lynn: Yep. He was. He was.
matt: Yeah, yeah. he He was, you know, he was a brown ah Palestinian Jew, basically a communist, you know? Like, come on.
Conor Fowler: No machine guns. He didn't have any machine guns.
matt: Come on, y'all. Right, right. Yeah. ah it's It's not the white Republican Jesus that all these pricks think is the Messiah.
Barry Lynn: No, it's not.
Conor Fowler: Believe it or not, no car, no truck.
Barry Lynn: Okay.
Conor Fowler: Just rope sandals.
matt: Well... Well, on that note, let's end with, let's end with this and talk, talk a little shit for the last few minutes of this. Uh, it's really funny that Tesla has gone from basically, you know, a leftist or lefty tech bro vehicle to basically a Mac, a chud paperweight in only a few years, especially the cyber truck, which is ungodly.
matt: Um,
Conor Fowler: Well, that's what that's what ah Affordable Wardrobe said about that um thing where I posted the guy said he was getting rid of his Tesla. ah people had People had been Heil Hitler-ing him.
matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: so
matt: Fucking great.
Conor Fowler: but Affordable Wardrobe said is first they bought the Tesla to virtue signal in that way. Now they want to distance themselves from the Tesla to virtue signal in a different way. So...
matt: Yeah, is this just like, is this whole transformation? i mean, Elon Musk, I feel like, has been a well-known asshole for a very long time.
Conor Fowler: Oh, certainly.
matt: but But is this, you know, he's somewhat speed running the gauntlet of like, oh, this person is not actually like hyper intelligent. They're just hyper wealthy and they can they can buy ideas from people.
matt: Like, ah yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: The downfall will be sweet, definitely.
matt: are Are people waking up to this fact that like, you know, the the technology could be good, but the people running it are just fucking chuds?
Barry Lynn: i see yeah I think people are waking up. I'm just not sure that there aren't people waking up yet to make a difference.
Barry Lynn: you know There are three elections coming up for House seats where the member of the House in two cases has already... left the house and is in the trump administration and won is going to be the
Barry Lynn: delegate to the united nation from upstate new york She's still in Congress, but she will have to leave when that appointment goes through. and the appointments all go through.
Barry Lynn: I mean, nobody gets stopped, no matter whether you're RFK Jr.
matt: yeah yeah
Barry Lynn: Every Democrat voted for Marco Rubio to be the Secretary of State. Marco Rubio has not had a left of center thought in his entire life.
matt: Right?
Barry Lynn: I did 99% of the people who were why get in by and think was ninety eight to zero but i mean there's no excuse for that if you don't push back if you don't make a case for why somebody is not any good to serve.
Barry Lynn: And if you don't have the courage to do the things that I mentioned earlier that just screw up the process, because what are these people in these positions going to accomplish that makes any difference for the American people?
Barry Lynn: When you talk about FDR, people should read some of those books, William Manchester's book about the the first half of the 20th century, and just the incredible things that happened.
Barry Lynn: People were so pissed that they did extraordinary things, and the Congress listened, and all kinds of things happened.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: and now we have nothing that's good is likely to have
matt: We don't even have the pussy hat liberal resistance that we had the first term. And that's...
Conor Fowler: Yeah, which is like, which is like performative, which is like all performative.
matt: It's almost...
matt: It would be shocking if like the track record hasn't been shown over the years that like, you know, especially with the genocide of Palestinians, like these people don't give a shit when their people, you know, their guy is in power.
matt: But we don't even have that at this point.
Barry Lynn: no but they're you know i think the worst single thing After the crash in Washington between the military helicopter and the jetliner where 69 or 70 people were killed, I was actually flying back from the West Coast have on U.S.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: Air. And the U.S. Air has live television. And you could watch... what was happening and we and i'd watched some movie and i was watching this and they break in with this news about the airplane crash.
Barry Lynn: And it's it's weird, but the next night and was having dinner with a guy I had not known previously who had been a pilot for JetBlue.
Barry Lynn: And I said, you know, there was that time when there was a flight. I don't remember what the airline was. And he knew where I was going. He said, it was one of ours. It literally, what on CNN Live as they were losing power in the expectation that the plane would crash.
Barry Lynn: And it didn't crash. But if you're on that plane, I'm thinking, I'm nervous watching this, and it's not even my plane they're talking about.
matt: hundred percent
Barry Lynn: But it's it's it's just, you know,
Barry Lynn: plane travel is awfully safe. But, you know, I'll admit, you get that heavy turbulence,
matt: yeah yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah, well, I won't be flying ah for the foreseeable future. Hmm.
matt: Yeah, yeah. I don't fly often, but Jesus Christ, I'm surely not stepping on a plane anytime soon.
Barry Lynn: Well, I did notice that i believe, although my facts, you know, i try to be factual. I don't make shit up. But I believe he has asked that the pilot of the plane that landed upside down in Toronto that she fired.
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: I guarantee you, if that had been a he, a it would never have been spoken. It's just proof to him that women can't fly airplanes.
Barry Lynn: Although conveniently, he failed to mention that no one died because of what she did.
matt: Right, right. Yeah.
Barry Lynn: you know when he was
matt: yeah
Barry Lynn: d because during that collision between the helicopter and the g and Washington, he actually said, you know, one of the things that we're supposed to hire people with handicapped, should we hire blind people?
Barry Lynn: Yes. Does he really? mean, nobody was trying to do. was trying to say, the next time you're on an airplane, not only the pilot might be blind, but the air traffic controllers, they'll be blind too.
Barry Lynn: is what
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: but this is what he said every time this guy mentioned anything opens tra he's alive about something every single time.
Conor Fowler: not a nice Not a nice man.
Barry Lynn: It would be nice. I mean, I'm sure he loves his dog. Does he even have a dog?
matt: I doubt it.
Conor Fowler: He's not an animal person.
matt: I can't see him being a dog on her.
Barry Lynn: Yeah,
Conor Fowler: yeah
matt: I mean, I don't even think he loves his children. You know, except for Ivanka.
Barry Lynn: well, he wanted to date her, but
matt: Yeah, yeah. exactly that's ah That's an entirely new episode that we could...
Barry Lynn: He actually said he didn't remember if he had called Zelensky. ah dictator just said that a couple hours
matt: Sick.
Barry Lynn: remember
matt: Sick. Yeah.
Barry Lynn: that that ah doesn't surprise me
matt: yeah I know 1984 has become like a ah canon chuds over the years, but holy me shit.
matt: we're I feel like we're living in that.
Conor Fowler: we're very near there with the double speak and all that sort of so orwell though he was a weird racist um he made points more good also
matt: Right.
Barry Lynn: yeah
matt: Yeah, yeah. Well, a broken clock is right twice a day, so, you know.
Barry Lynn: I
Conor Fowler: he killed an elephant anyway yeah
Barry Lynn: have very much enjoyed coming back.
matt: He did. He did.
Barry Lynn: And...
matt: Hell yeah. Mary, we'd like, you know, maybe we'll, we'll have you as a recurring guest as we live through this, uh, I don't know, collapse of empire.
Conor Fowler: As we are rocking in the USA. ah
Barry Lynn: it
matt: But yeah, uh, before we get out of here, anything else you want to plug?
Barry Lynn: oh No, I don't. I have a couple things. In the summer, you'll appreciate this. In the summer, I've been invited to give a lecture at Chautauqua, which is a very, very old, very well-known summer program where they do things like they this one as comedy in the morning religion in the afternoon and I'm in the urgent part but you probably might have to tell some funny stories but and the subject is supposed to be sin and here's what my sin I arranged this with the people putting it I said I'm not going to talk about sin like what you do I'm going to talk about the sin of being silent of not saying what is wrong when it's right in front of me
Conor Fowler: Hmm. Sure.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Barry Lynn: certain amount of courage to do that. Maybe it's stupidity, but it's the best thing you can do to stop bad things from happening.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
matt: Hell yeah, that's that's a great point.
Conor Fowler: Silence is violence.
Barry Lynn: okay
matt: Well, we appreciate you coming back on and spending an hour with us. Everyone, thank you for listening. We're on Instagram lips studs ahpocalypse studs at at gmail.com if you've got questions, comments, concerns, feedback, or just want to send us a ah really ridiculous meme.
matt: um I am Matt Smith at RebelsRogues.
Conor Fowler: And I'm Connor Flower at Connor Flower.
matt: And we will see you next week.
Conor Fowler: Ta-ta.
