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The Big C: 2024 Year In Review with Renato Pagnani
0 Playsin 15 hours
Christmas, capitalism, clothes, co-habitation, children, and other c-and-non-c-words, we are joined by perennial padre, writer, Renato Pagnani.
We talk dad, dog, daughter dynamics, sleeveless cardigans, Spotify’s ever questionable ethics, enshittification on the internet and elsewhere, writing, work, and each of our top 5 records of the year.
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Transcript
00:00:03
Conor Fowler
Welcome to our 2024 year
Introduction to 2024: The Year 'Nothing Good Happened'
00:00:08
Conor Fowler
in review, AKA 2024, the year nothing good happened. But wait, something good did happen this year and we've just the man to tell us about it.
Meet Renato: The 'Papa of the Year'
00:00:21
Conor Fowler
We welcome our annual superstar writer and shoo-in for the MVP most valuable Papa of the year. He, this year completed a hat trick.
00:00:32
Conor Fowler
Job House Child. Renato, welcome. It is a pleasure as ever. I am Connor Flower. And there we go.
00:00:41
Matt
I'm Matt Smith.
00:00:44
Conor Fowler
This is a bottle of studs, guys. We've done this before.
00:00:48
Matt
Yeah, yeah. ah This is always one of the most fun episodes to do in the year, because, yeah, the three of us just get together and and talk shit for an hour, so.
00:00:59
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, I always look forward to it. And I'm i'm happy that I was invited back. So clearly, I didn't do too poorly last year.
00:01:05
Matt
Always.
00:01:08
Conor Fowler
You didn't break the obscenity threshold.
00:01:09
Matt
Oh, no.
00:01:09
Renato Pagnani
perfect
00:01:12
Matt
Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:13
Conor Fowler
It's very high.
00:01:14
Matt
It is very high, yeah. But ah yeah, how's how's life these days, Renato?
00:01:21
Renato Pagnani
Life is good, as
Renato's 'Hat Trick': Job, House, Child
00:01:22
Renato Pagnani
um Connor mentioned, um and expressed very encouragingly.
00:01:33
Renato Pagnani
I mean, the house and job I already had, so I don't know if it could count for 2024, but my wife and I, sure, I see, okay.
00:01:39
Conor Fowler
But it's cumulative, right?
00:01:42
Renato Pagnani
I finished the hat trick, okay. um ill I'll allow it. um Yeah, my wife and I, My wife Bailey yeah gave birth to our first child, ah um a girl, Leona.
00:01:57
Renato Pagnani
She was born on August 13th and ah the past four months have been a whirlwind. Not a lot of sleep at the first or for over the first few weeks.
00:02:08
Renato Pagnani
um More sleep now, which is good. And yeah, nobody nobody can can can prepare you for just how much energy being a parent a requires.
00:02:18
Renato Pagnani
like it is worth it, it is it's amazing, but holy shit it's exhausting.
00:02:25
Matt
Right, I can imagine.
00:02:27
Conor Fowler
You didn't do the like Obama transformation though, so far, right?
00:02:32
Renato Pagnani
In what sense?
00:02:32
Conor Fowler
Like, oh but like Obama, when he, when he finished with the presidency, he was like, he has, he I mean, obviously aged almost 10 years, but he had really like changed facially.
00:02:43
Conor Fowler
And I guess he was posture.
00:02:43
Renato Pagnani
Right, well hopefully hopefully I haven't aged ah eight years worth of
00:02:47
Conor Fowler
You look about the same.
00:02:49
Conor Fowler
That was the compliment.
00:02:49
Renato Pagnani
ah think
00:02:49
Matt
a
00:02:51
Renato Pagnani
Well, it's only been four months. um i feel and I feel like I may have um experienced ah two presidencies through those four months, but actually surprisingly,
00:02:53
Conor Fowler
Yeah, these are details.
00:03:05
Renato Pagnani
Um, I think I've lost weight in that four months because like, we can't, you know, I'm not going out as much because like the baby needs to sleep and whatnot. So I'm like, well, I'll go work out in the basement. So I might be in better shape,
00:03:15
Matt
Right.
Rescue Dog Meets Newborn: Honey and Leona
00:03:18
Renato Pagnani
um, than I was pre-baby, which, um, I don't know how common that is.
00:03:22
Matt
Yeah, yeah, you're that's like the the reverse of a dad bod, right?
00:03:26
Renato Pagnani
I still have that, but perhaps just, uh, um, more of a fit dad bod.
00:03:34
Matt
yeah how How are your daughter and the dog getting along? or is I guess I should say, how is the dog reacting to the daughter?
00:03:43
Renato Pagnani
Right, so for listeners who aren't familiar with my life, um we have a six year old, no, I think she's five now.
00:03:55
Renato Pagnani
and I'm a terrible dog dad, clearly.
00:03:57
Matt
ah
00:03:58
Renato Pagnani
and no I think she's five, honey. She's a rescue French bulldog. who we acquired during the pandemic. One month into the pandemic, we we had been looking for a dog for a while, to be honest, at the rescues and whatnot. We wanted to go the rescue route. And we just hadn't come across the right dog. And plus, whenever you apply for dogs at rescues, like there are many applicants, typically. And you know we hadn't had any luck. um But honey, her application popped up. And we knew it would be a perfect fit
00:04:30
Renato Pagnani
And dashhi be she joined her family in in April of 2020.
00:04:33
Matt
Thank you.
00:04:34
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, and she would have been just 11 months old at that point. So yeah, so she'd be five now. um And she's a great dog. But the first the first time we brought her home, or I should say the first time we brought Leona home from the hospital, Honey was definitely confused um and wanted to lick her aggressively.
00:04:51
Matt
Yeah.
00:04:54
Matt
ha Right, right.
00:04:56
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, she didn't want to hurt her by any means, but um yeah and she just was like what like, what the hell is this? And then anybody who would hold the baby, especially like if you held the baby while standing, Honey would jump at you like and jump at the baby. I'm not sure why. Maybe she didn't trust anybody who was holding the baby or was just too excited, but French Bulldog's are notorious for like back injuries and whatnot, so we were worried more for like her health than the babies.
00:05:25
Renato Pagnani
So we shipped her off to the to my parents-in-laws for a few weeks and then like slowly integrated her back.
00:05:32
Matt
Oh, that's cool.
00:05:32
Renato Pagnani
and and then yeah So it took a few weeks and there were there were a few nights where we tried to bring her back and she was bad.
00:05:38
Matt
Right.
00:05:39
Renato Pagnani
We were worried that like we'd have to permanently like keep her at the farm. Which is what we call Bailey's parents acreage But eventually she I think she doesn't need a time to acclimatize and she's great now Like she she will like cuddle with the baby and she she loves being a big sister.
00:05:56
Renato Pagnani
So so it worked And we are we're grateful because yeah, there were a few sleepless nights where we were a little bit worried about their relationship and
00:05:56
Matt
Aww.
00:06:04
Matt
Right, right. Yeah, I can imagine that that's that's a difficult thing. And like so i think I feel like some dogs are bred to be very maternal. And some you know some have that naturally, some don't.
00:06:18
Renato Pagnani
Yeah and French Bulldogs are very much like the babies of the family anyway like they he require so much love and affection.
00:06:24
Matt
Right.
00:06:27
Renato Pagnani
I think she was a little confused like why are you paying attention to this this potato.
00:06:30
Matt
Hahahahaha!
00:06:33
Renato Pagnani
pooping and screaming nonstop instead of me. um So it took her a little while, but she did adjust and yeah, we're lucky. And she's also, what plays into her favor, I think, is she's actually now in the both of the the baby and the dog are about the same size.
00:06:50
Renato Pagnani
um Leona is a generationally big baby. She was born at nine pounds, three ounces, which is
00:06:58
Matt
Holy shit!
00:07:00
Renato Pagnani
Um, and very high up in the, uh, and the percentiles and now, and then, and then she's continued to be off the charts.
00:07:07
Matt
yeah
00:07:07
Renato Pagnani
Uh, every time she's gone to the doctor to get her, uh, to get weighed and measured.
00:07:07
Matt
Yeah.
00:07:11
Renato Pagnani
But, um, now, now she's 20 pounds at four months, which is about the weight of a one-year-old girl.
Sleeveless Cardigans: Style or Function?
00:07:17
Conor Fowler
Heh heh.
00:07:17
Matt
Right, right. Dude, maybe maybe she's gonna follow in your footsteps and be a hockey player.
00:07:22
Renato Pagnani
Maybe, or, uh, or a soccer player or a basketball player, like her mom. Uh, but.
00:07:27
Matt
Oh, oh yeah, true. I didn't know, baby I don't know if I knew Bailey was a basketball player. That's sick.
00:07:31
Renato Pagnani
She was. She played basketball ah she um growing up and and then had some scholarship opportunities through that. So she's quite she was quite ah she was quite talented on that regard. But but Honey is 20 pounds and now Leo is 20 pounds. So it's kind of funny that... So like Honey will like go lick Leo and like we're like fine with it because we're like, she's as big as the dog and now. she can like handle herself.
00:07:57
Renato Pagnani
um But and the nice thing is, too, though, like, again, um honey's small, so we can just pick her up if she's misbehaving, which, like, you can't do with a bigger dog all of the time.
00:07:57
Matt
Right, right.
00:08:06
Renato Pagnani
So um that plays into her favor where, like, we're like, well, she's never really going to hurt the baby because she's too small, too.
00:08:11
Matt
Right, right.
00:08:11
Renato Pagnani
ah So that's kind of a nice relief.
00:08:15
Matt
That's great.
00:08:20
Conor Fowler
I wanted to bring up, I guess, I mean, I wanted to bring up the sleeveless cardigan experiment that we were having just now.
00:08:29
Conor Fowler
um And yeah, well, so this is not gonna come as any he surprise to Matt. ah We were talking about, believe it or not, the sleeveless cardigan, that that widely adored garment by anyone and everyone.
00:08:29
Renato Pagnani
Okay, you have to film that in.
00:08:39
Matt
Whoo!
00:08:45
Conor Fowler
It's a cardigan with no sleeves, so it's very special.
00:08:45
Renato Pagnani
especially when yeah yeah adored Especially by year old women.
00:08:52
Matt
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:52
Conor Fowler
Right. See, this is just the gender bending that we support and promote on this show. It's a good because it isn't a bro garment. Like no bro is going to wear that ever.
00:09:03
Matt
And it's bad because ah it's a very ugly garment, so.
00:09:04
Conor Fowler
And that's good.
00:09:07
Conor Fowler
But it's good because it doesn't have sleeves, which is the hot part of a garment in some cases, right? Because your jacket is on your sleeves and your jacket is like opener sort of open.
00:09:20
Conor Fowler
So if you just have the vest portion, you're keeping your core warm and your limbs cool.
00:09:28
Conor Fowler
and that's what
00:09:28
Matt
Yeah.
00:09:29
Renato Pagnani
You know what, when, when Connor first broached the subject and he mentioned, uh, sleeveless cardigans, I was a guest and, but, but then I started, I hopped onto to grail and started Googling or not Googling, I guess, googling.
00:09:42
Conor Fowler
And then he started listening.
00:09:45
Renato Pagnani
Sorry, listening. I opened my mind a bit and I'm like, well, you know what, in theory, they're not that different from a vest. If you can, right.
00:09:52
Conor Fowler
Which I think Matt is anti-vest full stop.
00:09:55
Matt
but they
00:09:55
Renato Pagnani
Okay.
00:09:57
Matt
Yeah, I'm very particular about vests. Like, a puffer down vest?
00:10:03
Renato Pagnani
okay
00:10:04
Matt
Solid, in my opinion. a Brown's Beach style vest? Not my shit, but, ah you know, if you like I think they look cool on certain people.
00:10:13
Conor Fowler
I think those are okay.
00:10:15
Matt
ah Traditional vests are not traditional, but but whatever comes to mind when you say the word vest, which I feel like is probably, you know, basically like a a waistcoat.
00:10:24
Renato Pagnani
Yes.
00:10:27
Matt
um
00:10:27
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:10:28
Matt
Reminds me of like Hipster Williamsburg and everyone's wearing like, you know fucking red wings and they have a ah curly mustache Yeah,
00:10:29
Renato Pagnani
Okay. Sure.
00:10:37
Renato Pagnani
Sure. Yes. Agreed. Um, I've never been, uh, like a three piece suit guy with like a, with a vest.
00:10:43
Matt
I will say a caveat to the waistcoat if you're above a certain age Fucking you look cool.
00:10:48
Renato Pagnani
Sure.
00:10:49
Matt
I don't care ah How much your shit is not my style?
00:10:54
Renato Pagnani
Yeah.
00:10:54
Matt
Like it I'm down with it
00:10:57
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, I am a fan of like the knit sort of like, you know, the knit vests for winter that have, you know, um what what what pattern I'm thinking of, like, ah not necessarily.
00:11:08
Conor Fowler
Fair Isle.
00:11:09
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, Fair Isle, you know, exactly. And I have ah one I was telling Connor um from J. Crew that is a nice brown one with some some uh nice colors in the uh fair isle knit pattern and we'll probably wear that maybe tonight even so um and it's a little like a kind of drapey which i like you know and i'll toss it over a t-shirt to to kind of keep it casual or maybe maybe i'll wear it over a oxford cotton but no i'm not i haven't decided yet actually i
00:11:32
Matt
Right.
00:11:39
Conor Fowler
And see, that's the fun of it all, isn't it?
00:11:41
Renato Pagnani
could even i could even wear a tie too damn now all right man i could really class that shit up
00:11:46
Conor Fowler
You really could. I mean, I like it. I think that it's funny, right? And that's like the first requirement for almost everything is that it be funny. And then it also is functional.
00:11:54
Renato Pagnani
Okay.
00:11:59
Renato Pagnani
Yup.
00:11:59
Conor Fowler
And we like that.
00:12:00
Matt
Yeah, I'm going to take the mall gun on this one. I'm not going to be convinced nor will I convince anyone.
00:12:09
Renato Pagnani
but as ittains
00:12:09
Conor Fowler
Well, I don't think, I mean, see, listen, I think that Shane Curry, who has been on this show, is much more likable than me, certainly.
00:12:11
Matt
All right, yeah.
00:12:19
Conor Fowler
Big fan of the sleeveless cardigan.
00:12:24
Conor Fowler
But so, I mean,
00:12:28
Conor Fowler
I just think it serves a purpose. I think it serves a purpose. Like that's what Leisure Loafing and I were yelling at each other about. It's like whether or not something serves a purpose in clothing, whether that matters or not. I think it just serves a purpose.
00:12:42
Matt
I'll give you that one. ah It's not much yet, but maybe maybe one day, Connor, you will send me a non-terrible example that you want to buy. And, uh, yeah.
00:12:52
Renato Pagnani
Well, you know what, ah we can do that right now because...
Spotify's Strategy: Fake Artists and AI Music
00:12:56
Conor Fowler
we're doing we're We're pioneering a new a new segment on the show, which is someone and someone else and someone shopping.
00:13:03
Matt
Oh, God, yeah.
00:13:04
Renato Pagnani
Although to be fair, I think that would have to be a video version because I think you need to like screen share and like show people what you're looking out. Like, because I'm not sure if that would translate to audio only, perhaps.
00:13:15
Renato Pagnani
Like, I guess you could disc describe...
00:13:16
Matt
Yeah, I don't think so either.
00:13:17
Renato Pagnani
yeah However, i will I will send the link. I don't know if you can see the links that were already sent before joining the call, but like something like this. This is like a cream-colored cable knit. It's basically a cardigan we yeah with his sleeves chopped off. I kind of fuck with this.
00:13:33
Matt
Okay, yeah, it's not the worst thing.
00:13:36
Renato Pagnani
You know, I think it's J-press. It looks like it. I'm not sure how old this would be, but definitely a few years old. I can't tell based on the label. But i yeah I might have to, I requested measurements. So we'll see if a the seller gets back to me, but you never know on Grailed.
00:13:54
Matt
Right, yeah.
00:13:55
Renato Pagnani
hard i found
00:13:56
Matt
ah I think vests also, and I feel like other people, mainly Derek Eye,
00:13:57
Renato Pagnani
Yeah.
00:14:04
Renato Pagnani
yeah
00:14:05
Matt
they like they remind me so much of like tech bros because of the fleet. And and like that like when I worked in a menswear store here, it was it was the guys that like are just basically office drones that wear like a fleece vest over everything.
00:14:22
Renato Pagnani
yeah
00:14:22
Matt
I don't know, I have i have very negative connotations. so Yeah, it's it's just a little it's a little too much.
00:14:26
Renato Pagnani
They've kind of ruined the Fleece in a certain sense. Especially yeah the Patagonia Fleece.
00:14:42
Renato Pagnani
well
00:14:42
Conor Fowler
i'm I'm glad that I don't wear in a plate of live in a place where I need a fleece to be warm.
00:14:48
Matt
I mean, I like fleas, but not a yeah now but
00:14:52
Conor Fowler
Well, i feel like I feel like it is a more extreme textile than whatever, right?
00:14:57
Matt
Right. Yeah, true, true.
00:15:00
Renato Pagnani
I also feel like the way that the tech bros historically styled it doesn't doesn't make sense either. like It's either a fleece vest, or it could just be a some sort of tech material. And then like over an Oxford cotton button, now're like that those two are very different formalities, and like I don't think they necessarily work together.
00:15:23
Matt
Yeah, 100%.
00:15:23
Renato Pagnani
So it's just not a good use or a good good styling of a fleece vest. So not only they're they're making it look worse than it could be.
00:15:36
Matt
Right. for
00:15:36
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like a lot, it's like a lot of things, right? Like men have ruined it in a very like specific selective way, trying to present a certain image, I guess, and really like sort of doing that, but also not doing that.
00:15:46
Renato Pagnani
Yeah.
00:15:58
Conor Fowler
I don't think that I. I don't think that I have very much experience with the with a Fleece vest at all, like in terms of being in...
00:16:05
Matt
Yeah, probably for the better.
00:16:07
Conor Fowler
Yeah, agreed. well it's like I would never wear something like that because it's like, what's the... I mean, I can't even wear that ironically, right?
00:16:16
Matt
Right.
00:16:17
Renato Pagnani
I guess you're not much of a hiker.
00:16:19
Conor Fowler
No, certainly not. And if I go like if i go outside, like...
00:16:25
Renato Pagnani
You start to burn.
00:16:25
Conor Fowler
I want to have a lot of pockets. Yeah, that's the main thing would be having a lot of pockets, of course. And I would never go outside if it was it was so cold, you would need a fleece God or golly, even.
00:16:40
Renato Pagnani
we need to We need to bring you up here to Edmonton and toughen you up a bit.
00:16:45
Conor Fowler
I think that.
00:16:48
Conor Fowler
I think that probably the coldest temperature I have ever endured has been like maybe 15 degrees Fahrenheit, maybe, and that would be an extremely cold temperature.
00:16:59
Renato Pagnani
15 I'm doing the conversion now
00:16:59
Matt
Yeah.
00:17:02
Conor Fowler
How cold have you been, Matt? I mean, you've you've been you've been in some non...
00:17:08
Matt
I have been extremely cold. ah Yeah, I think the the coldest, the coldest night I can remember um when I was touring, it was nine degrees in Nashville. And yeah, like I always slept or almost always slept in the van.
00:17:28
Matt
But I had ah happen like a fucking, you know, good for negative 30 or something sleeping bag. I was toasty. But but yeah, I remember this kind of gross, but ah we played a show.
00:17:36
Renato Pagnani
Yeah.
00:17:41
Matt
I don't even remember where we were staying. And like, it was three in the morning. And I was just like, ah I have to take a piss. So I just like pissed outside in the yard or writing, you know, kind of where the van was.
00:17:53
Matt
And it was frozen in like three minutes. It's real fun.
00:17:57
Conor Fowler
see i just yeah there are like conversions that i'm not interested in like my own bodily fluids freezing not high on my list of uh my whatever but my i was gonna say my body list my dead list whatever they call it
00:18:06
Matt
Right.
00:18:15
Matt
Right. right
00:18:17
Renato Pagnani
So nine degrees Fahrenheit is minus 12 Celsius, which honestly, again, is not that cold. I'm not saying it didn't feel cold, Matt. Like I'm not trying to.
00:18:26
Matt
Oh yeah, 100%.
00:18:27
Conor Fowler
so
00:18:28
Matt
100%.
00:18:28
Renato Pagnani
yeah i
00:18:29
Renato Pagnani
but sorry just kind
00:18:29
Matt
But Edmondton
00:18:30
Conor Fowler
ah
00:18:30
Renato Pagnani
Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:33
Matt
and Anywhere, like even that I've been cold weather-wise on the East Coast, is like night and day. Like, I feel like you would feel like wearing shorts and some of the shit that we get.
00:18:44
Renato Pagnani
Now, I will, there's a caveat though. So, minus 12 isn't as cold here as it probably would be down. You said that was a Nashville you had experienced that?
00:18:55
Matt
Yeah, that that was a natural of all places.
00:18:58
Renato Pagnani
So it's a lot more humid down there though and it is true that like a wet cold is feels much colder than it's a really it's really dry up here like we're on the prairies so I get minus 40 Celsius um in the winter here sometimes I think the coldest I've ever experienced was like mine almost minus 50 which would be you want that's less
00:19:08
Matt
Yeah, right.
00:19:19
Conor Fowler
yeah a
00:19:22
Renato Pagnani
minus 50 is,
Coldest Weather Experiences: Fahrenheit vs. Celsius
00:19:24
Renato Pagnani
I'm trying to do the conversion here, minus 58 Fahrenheit. Actually, it's even colder. than that um And, but for sure.
00:19:29
Matt
fuck
00:19:30
Conor Fowler
that's like a hideous temperature that's like an unlivable yeah that's like a cruel temperature
00:19:34
Renato Pagnani
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, I burst and whatnot. It's not good. If you're out outside, you will die.
00:19:39
Matt
right
00:19:40
Renato Pagnani
But, um you know, that is probably what minus 20 Celsius down there feels like because it's the drier it is, the more you can handle it, right?
00:19:44
Matt
fuck yeah yeah for sure yeah it's yeah here like it's almost like uh when i lived in new york i would take a snowing day with like
00:19:49
Renato Pagnani
Like,
00:19:59
Matt
you know, no real, like no real problems over like a 40 degree rainy day because the rain and the cold together.
00:20:09
Renato Pagnani
Yeah.
00:20:09
Matt
It's just awful. But like if it snows and the sun's banking off the snow, it feels fantastic.
00:20:15
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, yeah. And to bring it back to clothing. um I mean, the colder it is, just the more layers you get to wear. So like, yeah it's not.
00:20:24
Matt
Right. Yeah, dude. Same. Same. Give it to me.
00:20:26
Conor Fowler
Right, enter the sleeveless cardigan.
00:20:29
Renato Pagnani
Exactly.
00:20:30
Matt
I mean, when it when it's like bone chilling cold, I ain't reaching for a sleepless cardigan, man.
00:20:30
Renato Pagnani
You know,
00:20:35
Conor Fowler
Will you reach for the sleeveless cardigan in addition to other shit?
00:20:36
Matt
like you Yeah, maybe, maybe.
00:20:42
Renato Pagnani
But I do think this Leithless Cardigan works in such a specific context. because it's like unless you have Unless the items you're placing over top of it also are open, like then you're just like not going to see it at all. So then what's the point?
00:20:56
Matt
Right, yeah.
00:20:57
Conor Fowler
Well, that's why you gotta wear it all open.
00:21:00
Renato Pagnani
Sure. but what right But if you're that cold, you might need to stay zipped up.
00:21:00
Conor Fowler
It's an open-faced sandwich.
00:21:06
Conor Fowler
No, but this is the point. is This is the je ne sais quoi of the, whatever, of the sleeveless cardigan.
00:21:13
Conor Fowler
It's like it's fucking stupid. Ultimately it's stupid, right?
00:21:13
Matt
but
00:21:16
Renato Pagnani
Right.
00:21:17
Conor Fowler
like It doesn't make that much sense. There are only so many occasions you could wear it, certainly not that many important occasions where you'd want to wear it, and yet it serves a purpose.
00:21:25
Renato Pagnani
Right.
00:21:29
Matt
this This is starting to feel like a who's on first bid.
00:21:33
Conor Fowler
Well, well, I mean, yes, that's I guess that's what it is. I think I have three or four of them now.
00:21:40
Matt
Nice, good.
00:21:41
Conor Fowler
We should call Shane and see because he's got all the good shit anyway, right? It's like, I'm sure that there are Ralph sleeveless cardigans and that would be just looking at it like it is kind of an IV prep, whatever garment, you know, it's like Andre 3000 has some sleeveless cardigans.
00:21:49
Matt
Oh, 100%.
00:21:54
Renato Pagnani
sure
00:21:56
Matt
Right.
00:21:59
Matt
yeah Yeah, you know he does.
00:21:59
Renato Pagnani
Absolutely.
00:22:01
Matt
They probably help his flute playing.
00:22:01
Renato Pagnani
ah
00:22:04
Renato Pagnani
what
00:22:04
Conor Fowler
Hell yeah, he probably wears them while he's playing the flute and that's a perfect occasion.
00:22:04
Renato Pagnani
What's this Shane Kerr, you speak of um Steph's brother, I'm sure.
00:22:07
Matt
Probably. Probably.
00:22:13
Renato Pagnani
But what's, the what's his Instagram? I want to creep through them.
00:22:17
Matt
she Shane Joseph XXX, I think.
00:22:21
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:22:21
Renato Pagnani
Oh, he's also in the band. Okay.
00:22:23
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:22:26
Renato Pagnani
There we go. Okay. Ah, I see you very stylish. Gent.
00:22:31
Conor Fowler
And some of these will be some of these will be like recent videos, but I think that there are some sleeveless cardies in there for sure.
00:22:41
Renato Pagnani
I will have to creep him later when we're not recording a live show.
00:22:44
Conor Fowler
We're actively recording. um I wanted to talk about this Harper's story, this Spotify Harper's story as a way to talk about music.
00:22:55
Renato Pagnani
Okay.
00:22:58
Renato Pagnani
Is that the Jen Pelly story?
00:23:00
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:23:03
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I mean the ghost in the machine.
00:23:06
Renato Pagnani
Yes, i had I had that. It's funny you mentioned it. I literally have it open in another tab on my computer that I've been waiting to read. I just haven't gotten around to it yet. So um I mean, it's it's ah it's and it's not an episode of Game of Thrones.
00:23:16
Conor Fowler
I don't want to spoil it, but it's like if you've read the lead, then you know what it is. ah e No, um but they I mean,
00:23:28
Renato Pagnani
So I think by all means enlighten the listeners.
00:23:33
Conor Fowler
Well, what they have is proof of something that has been discussed, I think, on this program even. Some of the shit is fake. Some of the music that they have shuffling is not real.
00:23:44
Conor Fowler
They are recording it.
00:23:46
Conor Fowler
It's their artists and their studios.
00:23:46
Renato Pagnani
I kind of feel like that was always going to happen once they realized they they don't have to pay royalties if they just make their own stuff.
00:23:58
Conor Fowler
their own music? Yes. And so they they have. um And so if you've ever asked yourself, like, how could this be a real artist? Well, now we know maybe it wasn't.
00:24:12
Renato Pagnani
I think maybe my algorithms don't point me in that direction. I'm not sure I've ever encountered an artist that might be one of these, you know, fake artists, um, which maybe says a lot about my algorithm and how it's mainly s Sabrina Carpenter or Chapel Road lately.
00:24:26
Conor Fowler
Well, because there are certain genres where you couldn't put, you couldn't push something, right?
00:24:29
Renato Pagnani
No. No.
00:24:32
Conor Fowler
But like, and really adventurous hip hop, like, is this a JPEG mafia or is this like someone smashing a keyboard or the hammer?
00:24:33
Renato Pagnani
like
00:24:43
Conor Fowler
We don't know.
00:24:44
Renato Pagnani
Right. Or like, um, instrumental music, jazz, for sure.
00:24:47
Conor Fowler
Instrumental, they said, jazz, they said.
00:24:50
Renato Pagnani
And so again, I haven't read the article yet, but is it, are they hiring actual musicians and just paying them shitty rates or are they like making AI music too?
00:25:01
Conor Fowler
Well, that is part of the mystery, I guess, is that says there are some cases where they are able to say like this for sure is a person.
00:25:04
Renato Pagnani
Yeah.
00:25:11
Renato Pagnani
Yeah.
00:25:11
Conor Fowler
Right. And then there are some cases where it's even murkier than that.
00:25:17
Conor Fowler
So.
00:25:17
Renato Pagnani
I don't know, that's pretty dystopian to me. I guess pretty.
00:25:20
Conor Fowler
It's it's like pure that is pure evil, you know, like they're not killing anybody, they're not they're not really hurting anybody, but it is pure evil. Sure enough.
00:25:31
Matt
Yeah, it's like the i mean it's it's like the same thing as a deep fake in a lot of ways.
00:25:31
Conor Fowler
like shut i profit over absolutely everything.
00:25:39
Matt
um But somehow it's it's become accepted.
00:25:39
Renato Pagnani
Right.
00:25:39
Conor Fowler
Well, I don't think that it is accepted.
00:25:43
Matt
like this is This is what's going to be.
00:25:48
Conor Fowler
And that's the thing is that people don't know.
00:25:49
Matt
Well, I mean, not not accepted like as as consumers, but like accepted by this company. like this ah This was the decision. They were like, hey, this is a good idea.
00:26:00
Matt
Like, we should do this. It's like, really?
00:26:04
Renato Pagnani
Well, yeah, the musicians think that these platforms are supposed to be helping them.
00:26:04
Conor Fowler
their their guys well it's to say i mean it's the it's like
00:26:10
Renato Pagnani
And then, of course, they have now competition by the owners of the platforms. Like, ah imagine, yeah, if you were the artist, especially if you're the small artists, like, how are you gonna, you're remaking 0.00001 cent per stream.
00:26:27
Matt
Right, right.
00:26:33
Conor Fowler
You can extrapolate to a lot of other industries, right? It's like why it's so hard to get off the ground as a person to do anything.
00:26:42
Matt
100% and the the AI shit that we've like I don't know I'm still of the mindset that this bubble is gonna burst at some point like at least this version of it, but It like every time I Google something and I get like the AI response. There's just something like There's just something so
00:27:08
Matt
like so weird about how something is worded or like whatever.
00:27:13
Conor Fowler
Yeah, yeah, it's the telling.
00:27:13
Matt
Like it's just like, yeah, like I've started adding, and I think this has been a common thing.
00:27:15
Renato Pagnani
Yeah.
00:27:20
Matt
I'm not a tech person, but like if I if i want to know information at this point, I add Reddit to any Google search I do because chances are there's going to be something that, you know, is actually helpful in this thing.
00:27:28
Renato Pagnani
Right.
00:27:36
Conor Fowler
Well, right.
00:27:36
Matt
And it's not like I'm, not like I'm Googling, you know, like what does cancer look like ah in your DNA or some shit.
00:27:37
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:27:43
Matt
Like it's mostly guitar related. So, you know, it's music related shit or just random, random facts that I need to go down to rabbit hole on. But, uh, yeah, it's the whole, like, I don't know.
00:27:57
Matt
It's like all of these companies think we're stupid and like we're, we're good.
00:28:01
Conor Fowler
Well, they don't give a fuck.
00:28:03
Matt
I mean, they they don't give a fuck, but they also like, they don't think that the the mass populace is like intelligent enough.
00:28:03
Conor Fowler
They don't care for sheep.
00:28:11
Conor Fowler
Well, do they think that people are like, I don't know. it would be so It would be so amazing to see like, are people getting any use out of the AI suggestions in Google search?
00:28:27
Conor Fowler
Like that question.
00:28:29
Matt
Yeah.
00:28:31
Conor Fowler
I think it would be, it does it is not very useful whenever I have looked.
00:28:37
Matt
Yeah, same.
00:28:40
Renato Pagnani
And Google has totally nerfed their search results like it is.
00:28:44
Matt
Oh, it's it's the the the best, one of the best terms to come out of the past like decade is the instantification of the internet.
00:28:44
Conor Fowler
yeah
00:28:45
Renato Pagnani
Yeah.
00:28:53
Renato Pagnani
Right.
00:28:53
Matt
And it's 100% true. Like, Google basically returns either shitty AI generated results or shit that that is like, listed for sale somewhere.
00:29:06
Matt
Like it's so fucking annoying.
00:29:10
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Yeah, I mean,
00:29:16
Conor Fowler
And sadly DuckDuckGo is not a viable alternative, really. I mean, it's like, what else is there?
00:29:25
Matt
Yeah.
00:29:28
Matt
I don't know, it's kind of like podcasting. There's there's not a whole lot of whole lot of you know options to do like an all remote podcast that are easy.
00:29:40
Conor Fowler
And maybe one day in some brave future somewhere, um We were going to ask you about writing and fatherhood.
00:29:52
Conor Fowler
ah
00:29:52
Renato Pagnani
OK.
00:29:54
Conor Fowler
You've been doing a lot of writing. You've not been doing a lot of writing. No judgment from us. But, you know, if you're working at things late at night, if you're doing nothing, good for you.
00:30:01
Matt
We just.
00:30:05
Conor Fowler
That's awesome. Also,
00:30:07
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, um I'm trying to think about how much I did write this year. I stayed busy.
00:30:17
Renato Pagnani
Definitely I'm I'm becoming the type of writer where I'm not actively pitching too many things these days I'm just too busy with the day job and with with my life, but when if and if I'm and then it comes to me with a pitch and and asks if I'm interested I would like usually say yes like it yeah it's kind of hard to turn the money down especially if you're writing for a decent publication who is paying a fair a fair wage what a great wage I will say um unfortunately even though they're print magazines and I feel like the the rates that print magazines are paying continue to dwindle but
00:30:58
Renato Pagnani
um I will typically, yeah, I will typically say yes if somebody um offers me a piece. And I think, I think this year, how many did I work? Honestly, I maybe only wrote two or three things this year. I think I wrote some things at the end of last year um that were published at the end of last year. And then a few things, um mostly locally this year. and I don't think I had anything,
00:31:26
Renato Pagnani
um on the internet this year. Last year, I was writing a lot about men's wear. And this year, that again, with the the baby born in August and just getting ready for that, it kind of took ah took a back.
00:31:33
Conor Fowler
Mm hmm.
00:31:38
Renato Pagnani
So you actually did write um one piece about a local a family who run a footwear store that they make they make custom footwear right here in Edmonton, which is you know not very common these days when when most shoes are either you know a factory made in wherever or or like they even if they're considered handmade shoes they will you know have them made in Mexico and and brought up here which is fine but like they're advertised as you know made in Canada or wherever and that's not the case but these are you know shoes that are actually made here which is pretty cool um but um I just haven't had as them as much time to write and which honestly has kind of been a nice break um
00:32:22
Matt
Nice, yeah.
00:32:24
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, like having a four month old that doesn't leave you a lot of um spare time and not even to, you know, to shower some days.
00:32:35
Matt
yeah yeah
00:32:38
Conor Fowler
I didn't shower today either, so...
00:32:38
Matt
like
00:32:41
Matt
I'm a feral human being. I haven't showered in a couple of days, but yeah.
00:32:45
Renato Pagnani
To be honest, I will complete the trifecta I haven't showered today. I will I
Parenting Challenges: Leona's Sleep Schedule
00:32:50
Renato Pagnani
will shower today because we're going out to my to my brother's place. He's having a little Christmas shindig but Yeah, and we we're lucky Leo sleeps pretty well these days um We haven't started sleep training her yet, which i'm I'm not sure we're going to because it sounds quite cruel actually basically just let them cry until they fall asleep and
00:33:12
Conor Fowler
yeah i hate that stick
00:33:12
Matt
Right, yeah.
00:33:14
Renato Pagnani
And then they just learn that like, that's what it's going to be like. So then they sleep.
00:33:18
Matt
I feel like that that is guaranteed to give that child anxiety when they're older. Which is not a good idea.
00:33:26
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, I, I've looked it up a little bit and like, there's no research done on this because it's like unethical research.
00:33:34
Matt
Right, right, yeah.
00:33:36
Renato Pagnani
and I don't think there's any way to like quantify that like honestly like I do I instinctively I feel like you're right but like how how can you quantify that like babies who are left to cry themselves to sleep as infants like have a higher rate of anxiety or whatever I don't know um it just seems mean um
00:33:37
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I hate that shit.
00:33:55
Matt
Yeah, I don't know I don't know
00:33:59
Conor Fowler
Well, it's a nature nurture type thing, right? It's like, do you do you extend the hand?
00:34:07
Renato Pagnani
For sure. like you know The argument against it is like you know they're learning that their parents will not be there to answer their cries for help when they need it. um But you know at some point, we also need to have have sleep yourself.
00:34:24
Renato Pagnani
So I think that um we like we started putting her down for naps more and getting and and getting some time back.
00:34:25
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:34:32
Renato Pagnani
But we're quite lucky. She sleeps until. my my point generally was that she doesn't follow any sleep schedule yet and kind of her schedule now is kind of like she falls asleep at midnight was just kind of a week go to sleep and and then we'll wake up at this point like once at like 7 8 a.m.
00:34:45
Matt
right.
00:34:50
Renato Pagnani
which is great like she gives us like seven eight hours and then she'll sleep another few hours um until noon and then and then get up from the day at noon but the last few days has been I think experiencing the first stages of like what they would call like the four month sleep regression, where they're are going through so much um development cognitively and also physically, that like they just it kind of sets back their sleep a little bit.
00:35:05
Matt
Right.
00:35:13
Renato Pagnani
um But we've been quite lucky that she's been a good sleeper still doesn't mean we're not sleeping like we did before the baby, but we're sleeping enough that we're not complete zombies.
00:35:25
Matt
Right, yeah, from what I put together, like that's kind of important.
00:35:29
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, as a it is more than you think. like I used to think I was good on a lack of sleep, but it turns out I'm not.
00:35:37
Conor Fowler
yeah here yeah it's so shitty and it's like as you get older it's just like oh it's more more and more
00:35:38
Matt
yeah
00:35:47
Matt
like i've I've been a night person my whole life. Um, I am still a night person, but since I hit like my late thirties, seven or eight hours, I have to get that.
00:36:02
Renato Pagnani
Yeah.
00:36:03
Matt
It, and sometimes that like really fucks up when I wake up in the, you know, in the day, like I might sleep till noon some days, but I'm just like, okay, I have to have this.
00:36:06
Renato Pagnani
Sure.
00:36:14
Matt
Like I can, I can do it on very little sleep if I have to, but i I'm not fun.
00:36:22
Renato Pagnani
Well, and it's so important, like, um, they have, I have read recent, uh, studies that said like, I mean, sleep is the number one predictor of like, honestly, like even like, whether you're going to get cancer or dementia later on in life.
00:36:34
Renato Pagnani
Like the more you sleep, the lower odds you have at a lot of serious conditions.
00:36:40
Matt
Right.
00:36:41
Conor Fowler
Oh, yeah.
00:36:41
Renato Pagnani
Like it's that just doing that, just getting enough sleep can improve your health so much.
00:36:49
Conor Fowler
Which is why we send our children to school extremely early.
00:36:50
Matt
Yeah.
00:36:55
Renato Pagnani
Exactly.
00:36:56
Conor Fowler
At least in this country.
00:36:58
Renato Pagnani
It's not that different.
00:36:59
Conor Fowler
No, I mean, like I think like that the teenage brain is advancing, is delicate, and they force every teenager to go to school at six o'clock in the morning.
00:37:10
Conor Fowler
It's like, We're setting them up for success.
00:37:14
Matt
Yeah, I literally slept in every single class that I ever had in high school at one point or another.
00:37:17
Conor Fowler
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I don't think I'd be able to sleep during the day now, but like, it's like bootcamp. You were like, you just are like yeah up early in the morning. It's terrible. Just a dreadful experience.
00:37:34
Matt
Yeah, but morning people astound me. I wish I could be them. I am not them. I'm like, I've described myself as a mid-morning person. Like, 9.30.
00:37:43
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like.
00:37:44
Matt
930 to 11 if I wake up then I'm great, but this like getting up at six, you know 530 when the fucking moon is still out like fuck off Yeah, today I was perfect
00:37:57
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, no, I agree. I think at 10 o'clock, 10 a.m. wait. Perfect. But then I also need, I also enjoy like slowly getting up, making coffee, putzing around for a while. Like, so I still would need like an hour or two
00:38:11
Matt
yeah yeah
00:38:12
Renato Pagnani
like fully kind of be alert enough to start doing things. So like, then then we're at noon. So like, I understand that like, I'm not setting myself up for for success either. But also maybe I just live, maybe I should just be living in in Italy and following that lifestyle and then going for a and a nap at 2pm. That sounds great to me.
00:38:33
Matt
Sounds wonderful.
00:38:33
Conor Fowler
dave ah guts They've got some things to prove it that it is an acceptable way of life. And then they have some other things, I guess, that are proof that it maybe isn't an acceptable way of life.
00:38:47
Renato Pagnani
but speaking up yeah Speaking of the work-life balance that maybe be the Europeans or some Europeans have figured out, I saw that in Japan they were
00:38:47
Conor Fowler
But it's like it's like the the child screaming thing. it's like It goes either way.
00:39:05
Renato Pagnani
oh
00:39:08
Renato Pagnani
promoting or what's the word I'm looking for, um considering moving to a four day work week in order to like spur the childbirth rate because it's particularly bad.
00:39:21
Conor Fowler
Fucking right.
00:39:22
Renato Pagnani
and um So they're like, well, we're going to get people four our work days instead, which is, I mean, I'm all for that. I'm not sure it's going to help make more babies. um But yeah, it says Tokyo government to introduce four day work week for its employees, meant to encourage Japanese couples to have children at a time when the country's fertility rate is at a record low.
00:39:48
Renato Pagnani
Or I guess that just like gives them literally more more time to fuck.
00:39:48
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:39:51
Matt
you Right? Or let's hope.
00:39:54
Renato Pagnani
Let's help.
00:39:54
Matt
Let's hope they flip. Yeah.
00:39:56
Conor Fowler
But like, sign of the times, really, I mean like, ah
00:40:07
Conor Fowler
if I had an extra four hours a day, I would probably not spend it breeding. Probably smoking weed.
00:40:17
Renato Pagnani
What would you spend it doing?
00:40:20
Conor Fowler
probably smoking weed
00:40:23
Renato Pagnani
Well, you know, you can do that while reading.
00:40:26
Conor Fowler
Oh, I said breathing.
00:40:27
Renato Pagnani
Oh, breathing. Sorry. I thought you said reading.
00:40:31
Conor Fowler
No, I don't know what I would do.
00:40:31
Renato Pagnani
That's fair.
00:40:33
Conor Fowler
I don't know what I would do. I would like, I would probably,
00:40:40
Conor Fowler
the good boy answer would be like, I would work out for like one of the hours.
00:40:44
Renato Pagnani
Okay.
00:40:45
Conor Fowler
I would make sure to take a shower every day. And then I would probably, Do stuff more slowly than I already do them.
00:40:59
Conor Fowler
I'm like a sloth.
00:41:00
Renato Pagnani
Right. And for the interest of um being accurate, it's also only the Tokyo government who's looking to introduce four-day work weeks. Because I guess you probably really can mandate that um amongst like private companies.
00:41:17
Conor Fowler
Where they want their employees to work 90 hours a week.
00:41:17
Renato Pagnani
ah
00:41:20
Renato Pagnani
Well, I know that it's yeah there is no work-life balance in Japan for certain sectors at least, so very interesting. I mean they've they've all ah hate to keep talking about studies I've read because that sounds incredibly boring, um um but it is a lot of what I read.
00:41:35
Renato Pagnani
It was mostly articles talking about studies because I can't be bothered to read the actual studies.
00:41:36
Conor Fowler
We database.
00:41:41
Renato Pagnani
I'm not that much of a nerd. um In fact, I am.
00:41:43
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:41:46
Conor Fowler
The abstract reader.
00:41:46
Renato Pagnani
um Yeah, yeah, read just read the abstract. But um, they've done studies where it's like, we could have a four day work, we cannot be any less productive. Like, like, just, right?
00:41:55
Matt
yeah
00:41:56
Renato Pagnani
So it's like, why don't we?
00:41:57
Conor Fowler
For sure.
00:42:00
Conor Fowler
Well, Renato, are you gonna,
00:42:00
Matt
yeah
Tokyo's Four-Day Work Week: A Solution for Fertility?
00:42:05
Conor Fowler
are you gonna
00:42:07
Renato Pagnani
Answer the question.
00:42:07
Conor Fowler
There is an answer. There is an answer to the question we talked about.
00:42:09
Renato Pagnani
I think the answer is C.
00:42:11
Conor Fowler
Right, we tell you a big C quite often.
00:42:14
Matt
Yeah, yeah. Like the the thing about all of this shit is like, I feel like I see a new study once every week or two that's like, oh, this this town gave, you know, gave their homeless population like $1,000 a week for eight months and it helped to like alleviate the problem.
00:42:24
Renato Pagnani
Oh.
00:42:39
Matt
like this this is like the four-day work week like has been shown to like boost morale and and everyone's more happy and they get more done and and it's like how many of these fucking things do we have to see for the actual question which is like oh capitalism fucking kills everything like he kills innovation he kills like the human spirit like how much of this shit do we have to see her all the time to be like, oh, maybe we should change some stuff.
00:43:08
Conor Fowler
Creativity. and
00:43:15
Conor Fowler
Well, I think it's interesting because it sort of solves its own problem in a way.
00:43:20
Renato Pagnani
Mm hmm.
00:43:23
Conor Fowler
Like, have you ever known someone who works in an office to like work for the entire eight hours? Like, have you ever known anyone to do that?
00:43:31
Matt
Fuck no.
00:43:32
Renato Pagnani
first
00:43:34
Matt
As like,
00:43:34
Conor Fowler
I think people work like two hours a day.
00:43:37
Matt
Dude, as someone that has worked retail the vast majority of my adult life, I have never once worked eight hours in a day. Like I was a valet ah for a nine month period.
00:43:50
Matt
I read a book a week because like I was that bored at work between like the little rushes of shit.
00:43:51
Renato Pagnani
first cause.
00:43:58
Matt
And I probably made more money than I've ever made in my life.
00:44:04
Renato Pagnani
i believe it
00:44:05
Conor Fowler
I don't know.
00:44:06
Renato Pagnani
and believe but
00:44:06
Conor Fowler
Yeah. I like, I like never could get a job as of LA. It's, uh, I don't even know why they were like hiring teenagers.
00:44:12
Matt
ah it was it was It was honestly one of the like most enjoyable jobs I've ever had in my life.
00:44:14
Conor Fowler
They were like, if you are a teenager, come here and we'll let you drive the cars.
00:44:22
Matt
like I smoked cigarettes, I looked at the internet, and I read books. And then I made a lot of money off of people that have money to give me.
00:44:29
Conor Fowler
Yeah. I believe it.
00:44:30
Renato Pagnani
I believe it.
00:44:34
Conor Fowler
It's good, it's good if the, if you get any, and then I see the valets outside and it's like, how did you get this special job?
00:44:41
Matt
Yeah, yeah, it is kind of special, sadly. So, Renato, has being a new father stopped your copying of clothing this year?
00:44:56
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, it has pretty much completely and and fairly to be honest.
00:45:02
Matt
Ah, yeah.
00:45:04
Conor Fowler
A true cop freeze.
00:45:06
Renato Pagnani
ah yeah um and like now i kind of but also i kind of don't want to buy clothes like i'm kind of like i don't know if it's the the hormones in me um that have flipped the switch but i'm kind of like i need to buy things like oh i rather than you know buy uh okay i i haven't i will say okay i have not completely um Stopped purchasing things, but I've purchased things I've needed more than just like oh I i could use another like random like shirt, you know I I recently picked up at like 40% off a pair of DMA like hiking boots um because I didn't have anything for the winter here that wasn't like um a pair of like gigantic Sorrell like
00:45:41
Matt
Right.
00:45:57
Renato Pagnani
winter boots that you use when you're shoveling the snow um or like are walking outside, but like you don't really you wouldn't really wear those if you're walking around inside or like for like a more formal event. um But I also didn't want to you know get something that was like too much like an oxford or a cap toe leather boot either so like a hiking boot kind of felt like i could wear it casually but also dress it up a bit so i did i did find a pair of those on sale locally um and i've worn them pretty much every day since and actually again i want to treat to treat myself for christmas so um
00:46:19
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:46:37
Renato Pagnani
everybody's kind of getting back into raw Japanese denim. um you kind of a ah two point zero not It's not a 2.0 redux of like hashtag menswear from the late 2000s and early 2010s, but um I
00:46:55
Matt
cool
00:46:55
Renato Pagnani
I ordered a pair of, have an a and say them a few days ago, 316 jeans in their sort of classic straight leg cut. And I wanted something, you know, whereas 10 years ago or 15 years ago, they were, it was all slim denim. I wanted something that was, you know, a more relaxed fit.
00:47:18
Renato Pagnani
um that was a lot more going forward. That basically, I mean, I'm over, I do not have the body, nor did I ever have the body for like skinny pants.
00:47:30
Renato Pagnani
I was always, um my legs were too big from soccer to wear them.
00:47:32
Conor Fowler
yeah yeah yeah you can't have like a waste
00:47:36
Renato Pagnani
And I think skinny jeans in hindsight only looked good on like literal like runway models. um And my Yeah, all of my pants now I want to be relaxed and roomy and big, um which of course I know is the trend right now. But as somebody who, yeah, I will be 38 in March, um I just don't want to be uncomfortable in the clothes I wear anymore. So I thought if I'm going to go buy a pair of raw denim, which inherently are uncomfortable because they're supposed to be stiffer, right? So you could get those sick fades.
00:48:13
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:48:14
Renato Pagnani
At least I'm going to get a cut that hopefully, and again, I have fingers crossed they haven't arrived yet, but like based on the measurements, I hope they're accurate and they fit me like I want.
00:48:25
Conor Fowler
Yeah, well, some things never change.
00:48:30
Renato Pagnani
But law of the story short is yes besides those two Garments I have not really bought anything for myself recently now. I'm more concerned about like damn we need a new garage or We really need a second vehicle or we need to replace our washer and dryer really mundane like adult things
00:48:50
Conor Fowler
Yeah, dude, but that's like, that's, I guess it's the way that it is. um
00:48:59
Renato Pagnani
And i but I will say, like I think fatherhood is really, even in the four months I've been a father, like has caused me to sort of reevaluate my relationship with clothes. just like i Do I need, I mean, the people who are listening won't see, but I have a bunch of sneakers behind me on shelves. I have 20 pairs of sneakers right now, which historically is way fewer sneakers than I've had in the past. But I'm like, do I even need 20 pairs? Probably not. like I'm really considering Um, not necessarily moving to like a capsule wardrobe, but like, I don't know if I need all these, all these things anymore.
00:49:31
Conor Fowler
Mm-hmm It's hard to justify for me anyway at this point to like what the fuck do you mean you have 50 shirts?
00:49:33
Renato Pagnani
I don't know what that says about where I am in my life.
00:49:46
Conor Fowler
I'm not like the great like I don't need that shit But I just gotten them all at the thrift store, right?
00:49:49
Renato Pagnani
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
00:49:52
Conor Fowler
And it's like if you get a shirt for five dollars you get a shirt for five dollars.
00:49:57
Renato Pagnani
Well, and in my case too, I have 20 pairs of sneakers around.
00:49:59
Conor Fowler
I
00:50:03
Renato Pagnani
I'm not sure of the exact number right now, but I... for the most case wear two or three pairs like I have the pairs I wear every day um and I don't um cycle through them enough and and maybe I need to do that and maybe I'd feel differently but I'm kind of like is it worth it just to have these things you know taking up space on on my wall I don't know anymore especially when like you know my kids are outgrowing their clothes I need to buy more damn baby sleepers
00:50:09
Conor Fowler
No, no.
00:50:31
Matt
Right, right. and And hopefully your kid will be into cool quotes.
00:50:38
Conor Fowler
Hopefully.
00:50:38
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, I think it runs in the family like my dad.
00:50:42
Conor Fowler
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think it's for sure.
00:50:44
Matt
Yeah, totally.
00:50:44
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, my dad is where I got my interest in clothes from 100%. He is very much still somebody who is um a fashionable 79 year old Italian man.
00:50:57
Renato Pagnani
um Bailey, my wife
00:50:59
Matt
The 79 year old Italian men are the most fashionable Right
00:51:03
Renato Pagnani
Absolutely. Absolutely. And he continues, continues to rock fits and Bailey is very stylish. And um honestly, I feel like my love of clothes now is like, I want to put my child in dope fits more than me.
00:51:16
Renato Pagnani
I mean, I already know I'm going to get a fit off, but like I also like my kid can't be wearing a wack fit because like then I'm going to leave her at home.
00:51:23
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:51:24
Renato Pagnani
Like, sorry.
00:51:24
Conor Fowler
Right. Right.
00:51:26
Renato Pagnani
Like she's got to come correct.
00:51:26
Conor Fowler
Right.
00:51:27
Renato Pagnani
um And it's just fun to, it's also, you know, you don't want to spend that much money on clothes right now. I made i made the mistake of buying a few pairs of baby sneakers for her before she would.
00:51:38
Matt
Oh yeah, yeah.
00:51:41
Renato Pagnani
And she like literally came out of the womb, like not fitting them already. So I'm like, well, this was a waste of $200.
00:51:48
Matt
you'll You'll have a pair hanging on the rear view here of your car at some point.
00:51:48
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:51:51
Conor Fowler
Yeah, right.
00:51:53
Renato Pagnani
Yes, exactly. And it's still it's still sentimental. And like I like that i she has them in her collection, even if she might never wear them. But yeah, it kind of does put things into perspective, which I know is a very cliche and um answer. But it does. It's like, damn, it's like you know this thing that was occupying so much of my time. I will always, I mean, clothes are definitely you know maybe my my primary interest outside of sports. and music perhaps, but it's like, i you know, my budget for clothes is lower now and I'd be more judicious with my purchases and, um you know, maybe I could do with fewer clothes and definitely fewer sneakers, right? Like more I could use more
00:52:37
Renato Pagnani
um probably leather shoes than I have, you know, sneakers. um Like, we have a wedding to go to on on New Year's Eve.
00:52:43
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:52:47
Renato Pagnani
some Some friends are getting married, and I've never been to a New Year's Eve wedding, but ah it's I think it's gonna be a blast. But um it's black tie, which is great, but it's like, man, a guy... I would love to be able to buy a new tuxedo, but also like, then I thought about it.
00:53:00
Renato Pagnani
It's like, well, how much, where am I going to get out of a tuxedo?
00:53:02
Matt
right red
00:53:02
Renato Pagnani
Right. I'd have to buy a vintage one or something, but just like, Hey, I didn't have enough time to like start, you know, looking at eBay and whatnot for, for my measurements and things like that, and then take the risk and then wait for it to arrive.
00:53:17
Renato Pagnani
So I have some things I will wear, but it's like, you know, just trying to be more sort of conscious about, uh, more deliberate in my, I guess, purchases.
00:53:17
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:53:26
Matt
Right. Probably not a bad thing.
00:53:29
Renato Pagnani
Yes, exactly. A more, I feel like, you know, just being a more conscious consumer is always a good thing.
00:53:37
Matt
Yes, absolutely.
00:53:37
Renato Pagnani
And how the child is forcing you to do that, which is good because historically, I'm not being great at that.
00:53:47
Conor Fowler
Yeah, I guess you learn whoever is teaching.
00:53:51
Matt
ah
00:53:51
Renato Pagnani
Absolutely.
00:53:53
Matt
So but's to to wrap up, let's go to the music. We were thinking a top five for each of us for the year.
00:54:06
Renato Pagnani
All right.
Top Music Picks of 2024: Artists and Albums
00:54:07
Renato Pagnani
you I think you boys should start.
00:54:11
Conor Fowler
That's for sure. Do you want to go first, Matt? You want me to go first?
00:54:15
Matt
Uh, what are you feeling?
00:54:20
Conor Fowler
Dammit, I just asked you, I will go first.
00:54:22
Matt
Go first.
00:54:23
Renato Pagnani
if
00:54:23
Conor Fowler
I'll go first. i just ah I just concocted this list of five. I would say not in a not in that specific of an order, exactly.
00:54:38
Conor Fowler
ah I feel like I have to give Chief Keef's, Almighty So Too, the record of the year.
00:54:45
Conor Fowler
it was It was unexpected. I listened to it a lot. I thought it was fun. It wasn't annoying. It wasn't like some of his other shit, which is just like, I don't know, like basically like a child, ah which of course he was. So it was like mature. It's like a lot ah a lot of people were looking for from him was like an album that he really, really shined on. And I think that I think that he did.
00:54:45
Matt
Shit, okay.
00:55:15
Conor Fowler
I thought the Maakami album that came out was good. um Rich Haitian, Vince Staples, Dark Times, GNX, Schoolboy Q, Blue Lips, and some other stuff has come out this year. But it's like, ah The Thief Next to Jesus by Ka, which came out, I guess, posthumously.
00:55:39
Conor Fowler
ah month ago or something that album is really really tremendous it's like a hip-hop album about god but not like that yeah yeah it's like i don't know my brother is pretty taken by it um and i thought like it's it's worth checking out for sure
00:55:49
Renato Pagnani
But not like that. I love that descriptor, but not like that.
00:56:01
Matt
there's even been There's been a lot of fucking good music that came out this year. Like I've been trying like the past few weeks to just like think about what the records that that are new that I listened to like over and over again.
00:56:18
Matt
And yeah, there's there's a good bit. I have a list of 14 total that I've come up with that are like my favorites of the year.
00:56:23
Renato Pagnani
Okay.
00:56:28
Conor Fowler
You said 14.
00:56:29
Matt
14 yeah, I'm not gonna miss 14.
00:56:30
Conor Fowler
what
00:56:32
Matt
I'm gonna do five ah but I Can't rank them in order But um let No, no word but ah no van glitter and spit
00:56:45
Renato Pagnani
No particular order. So yeah.
00:56:52
Matt
just a fucking ferocious like hardcore punk band from DC. The singer is Palestinian and they did like, I think, yeah, they did like three release shows um that benefited like Palestinian organizations for the release of it.
00:57:03
Renato Pagnani
for Palestine.
00:57:15
Matt
that That record fucking just rips from beginning to end. um The second one, I think I'm gonna go with ah the Melvins' Tarantula Heart, which, ah yeah, it's like, I think the opening track is 21 minutes, but in in True Melvins, yeah, True Melvins' form, it's fantastic.
00:57:43
Matt
um I think the Cure, Songs of a Lost World, may be my favorite Cure record since Descendigration,
00:57:54
Matt
there
00:57:55
Renato Pagnani
Well.
00:57:55
Matt
Yeah, like the whole record, just no skips. And I've seen some interviews with Robert Smith and he was like, yeah, I've got like two more records in the canon right now. I was like, fuck, they're putting out some of their best shit, you know, almost 40 years since their first shit came out.
00:58:15
Conor Fowler
Well, there is kind of this idea that like, and I feel this idea, it's like young people who make the music that is good or young people create the culture or whatever. But like that doesn't really make a lot of sense.
00:58:25
Renato Pagnani
sure
00:58:28
Matt
No, no.
00:58:28
Conor Fowler
It kind of makes sense.
00:58:30
Matt
Yeah, I mean, it like, and I mean, yeah.
00:58:30
Conor Fowler
Like why shouldn't they be making fucking awesome albums when they have a half a century of experience?
00:58:38
Matt
And like Robert, Robert Smith is like 66 or seven, something like that. And like some of my favorite work that he's put out since, you know, the late eighties, like just goes to show.
00:58:44
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
00:58:54
Matt
Um,
00:58:55
Conor Fowler
Whatever the expression for that is, you can teach an old dog new tricks.
00:58:59
Matt
right right or or an old dog could perform his same tricks, it'd be amazing. I don't know.
00:59:05
Conor Fowler
Right. Right, right, right.
00:59:09
Matt
Let's see, number four, I'm gonna go with a local band that I'm kind of friends with called Small. Fight Your Way Inside Me, it's an EP that they released ah back in like August, I think, and it's just like,
00:59:26
Matt
Just fucking great, like indie punk alt rock. Uh, and they, they always, I've seen them a lot of times this year. They put on the fucking great show every time. And then I got a, I got to give it to C Valvini. Rest in peace. That death hit me real hard.
00:59:49
Renato Pagnani
Sure.
00:59:50
Matt
um But shellac to all trains has been on repeat since the release of it like two weeks after his death.
01:00:04
Matt
Yeah, been a really fucking good year for music. There's a lot more that I would love to mention. let Let me throw another one in there. Janie Danger, a local East Atlanta Sober, just the record. And they are one of the best bands of this wonderful time in Atlanta music for me. So check that out.
01:00:27
Conor Fowler
I figure we'll put up a list, and if you want to put more on Matt, you can.
01:00:31
Renato Pagnani
Absolutely.
01:00:32
Matt
Yeah, but let's do like a joint playlist or something just with shit from each you each of us.
01:00:40
Conor Fowler
Yeah, that sounds good to me. Like, yeah, some of the drums on the Sosa album are like, I don't know, just like a lot of very loud drums, I guess.
01:00:54
Matt
all about the Wild Drums. Well, he's gotta be old.
01:00:56
Conor Fowler
Well, it's like he's like 27 now, right? 28?
01:01:00
Renato Pagnani
which is great
01:01:00
Matt
He's older than that.
01:01:02
Renato Pagnani
He was
01:01:02
Renato Pagnani
like 15 years old for sure.
01:01:03
Conor Fowler
Dude, he started when, don't like was, what don't like he was 15 or 16.
01:01:07
Matt
Fuck.
01:01:08
Renato Pagnani
I think um already Rich came out and I think he must have been, I don't know if he was even 17 yet when the album came out.
01:01:15
Conor Fowler
Yeah, he's, a I mean, he like got started.
01:01:22
Conor Fowler
Yeah, and I don't know people still try to deny him like people still try to deny his like influence and
01:01:28
Matt
Hell no.
01:01:29
Renato Pagnani
He was 17 when finally Rich came out. That's crazy to me. and now um So good still.
01:01:33
Matt
That's so fucking wild. I had no idea.
01:01:38
Renato Pagnani
And like, I feel like in hindsight, yeah, like is even better than people thought it was at the time.
01:01:38
Matt
Yeah, I put that on regularly.
01:01:45
Renato Pagnani
um
01:01:46
Conor Fowler
oh yeah, it really like um
01:01:47
Matt
I woke up with 300 in my head the other day. Like, that's how engulfed in my brain it is.
01:01:53
Renato Pagnani
As you should, as you should.
01:01:54
Matt
Yeah.
01:01:58
Conor Fowler
we'll get we'll get ke on the program
01:02:01
Matt
Fucking please. All right, Renato, what you got, top five?
01:02:04
Renato Pagnani
just like
01:02:08
Renato Pagnani
Well, um again, this year I listen to less music than I typically do. i I also am, again, the trend with me, I'm a big nerd, so I keep ah a spreadsheet every year about like every album I listen to that I hadn't heard before, of course.
01:02:25
Renato Pagnani
um If I've heard it again, I i don't count it.
01:02:25
Conor Fowler
We'll get a keep on the program.
01:02:28
Renato Pagnani
But I listened to 75 new albums to me um in 2024, which is a lot less than usual. Usually I'm up over 200.
01:02:40
Renato Pagnani
One year I actually hit 365. I wanted to hit and an album for every day of the year. um like not It wasn't every day of the year I listened to a new album, but like collectively um i got to I hit that once.
01:02:52
Renato Pagnani
um But only 75 this year, um and I do echo your sentiments that there were a lot of was a lot of great music this year. My favorite record was probably the Mickey album, Two Star and the Dream Police.
01:03:06
Matt
Okay, yeah, I've heard really good things.
01:03:07
Renato Pagnani
yeah it's It's fantastic. It's sort of like a cross between um Prince and Jay Paul and Phil Collins. um A really interesting like um and um basically he's like a indie um
01:03:30
Renato Pagnani
guitar, indie rock guitar, just like really interesting equipment to sort of like, um you know, add a lot of cool reverb to his stuff.
01:03:31
Matt
Right, right.
01:03:39
Renato Pagnani
And like, honestly, like, um I forget who it was. It was Maybe it was Eric Clapton, who like, yeah I'm not the biggest Eric Clapton fan, but he went on and he went on a record. I think it was earlier this year, seeing like he has never heard the like guitar played in the way that McGee plays the guitar. um And honestly, like I get it. it's just And he's a really good songwriter or too, but it's like this really kind of throwback 80s style, but also futuristic sounding.
01:04:06
Renato Pagnani
um guitar bass, indie music, and it's it's just really, you really, really hits. That's definitely my favorite record of the year. um ah And then rounding out my top five again in no particular order.
01:04:19
Renato Pagnani
Big fan of this record from a Canadian electronic producer named Patrick Holland. He released an album called Infra um earlier this year, which is really good. um Then there was a record called Ten Total by Ten Ten Benja, who kind of like this R and&B artist kind of makes um kind of experimental um R and&B music, it's almost as if like, he's kind of a cross between like Chance the Rapper,
01:04:51
Renato Pagnani
um Justin Bieber, and then like, ah like but are it's really good. And hes he produces his own stuff. um But yeah, like kind of a hybrid between like rapping and R and&B, but mostly R and&B. It's just it's really good stuff. His voice is a little bit of an acquired taste.
01:05:09
Renato Pagnani
um It's all or and also the kind of like I love makon in like where like you listen to it You're like is he serious?
01:05:12
Conor Fowler
Do I love? Yeah. Yeah that's good.
01:05:16
Renato Pagnani
Like is he is this like playing the straight, but it is I'm also speaking of I love makon in She released an EP not my makon in which was really good this year. I actually think it's one of his um One of his best projects Yeah
01:05:29
Conor Fowler
Really, I missed that. I'm gonna fucking put that on my shit now.
01:05:32
Renato Pagnani
yeah Yeah, it's really good. So really good. And then I'm running out my list, I guess I have three now. I'm a big s Sabrina Carpenter fan. Her album this year, sort and Short and Sweet, is great. um And then ah Fabiana Palladino has worked with Jay Paul. I think he co-produced her album that came out this year um on his label, fantastic sort of um vibi vibey, R&B leaning pop music, senior songwriter-y stuff with some really cool production. um But yeah, there's a lot of good stuff. And again, I listened to maybe less of it than I would typically just getting older. But you know, I think I saw some more that people stop
01:06:15
Renato Pagnani
discovering new music on average at like 33. And I don't want that to happen to me. I kind of want to continue to, you know, stay up to date and just like discover. I mean, one of my favorite things in and this life is like discovering new music that I love and new artists that I haven't heard before. So I yeah i think I have to be like deliberate about that, but like trying
The Joy of Discovering New Music
01:06:35
Renato Pagnani
to making that something that I like actively seek out is important to me. And I'm glad I still managed to do that.
01:06:43
Renato Pagnani
at a respectable rate this year.
01:06:46
Conor Fowler
It's hard. I mean, I feel like even this year, like I've listened to less than I listened to last year, fewer albums than I listened to last year. And I think it's hard. It's hard to keep up with shit. It's like.
01:06:59
Renato Pagnani
I mean, modern life doesn't leave a lot of time for, you know, unfortunately doesn't value things like art and we're all, you know, like it was a crazy year and for a number of
01:07:08
Conor Fowler
Right. no
01:07:13
Renato Pagnani
ah reasons and but I think it's important like I have I'm off for two weeks on vacation and I'm trying to catch up on some on some books I've been meaning to read some films I would be need to watch even some video games have been meaning to place hopefully I can have a very art filled vacation and sleep
01:07:30
Matt
ah Oh, oh yes.
01:07:32
Conor Fowler
Hell yeah. Well, it won't take more of your, uh, useful time. I mean, yeah, we've interrogated you as thoroughly as we are capable.
01:07:47
Matt
Yeah, it's been it's been fun. I like the tradition and yeah, yeah, it's always always good to check in with the godfather of bokob studs.
01:07:51
Renato Pagnani
Me too.
01:07:51
Conor Fowler
Yeah, for sure.
01:07:59
Renato Pagnani
Well, thank you gentlemen. It was a pleasure. I always look forward to it every year and let's, uh, let's continue. Let's see how long we can do this. Hopefully we're all crotchety old men. Well, older crotchety men.
01:08:09
Matt
yeah
01:08:11
Conor Fowler
Right.
01:08:11
Matt
that's a that's a great distinction absolutely my friend you too and congrats on the the
01:08:13
Renato Pagnani
Yes. Yes.
01:08:15
Conor Fowler
It'll be like the birthday card that they send back and forth, you know?
01:08:15
Renato Pagnani
Uh, our crotchety. Yeah, like hopefully we're we're doing this when we're in our 80s and I hope so, I sincerely do so. Merry Christmas to you, you too, and I hope you get a little bit of time to relax and and just sort of rejuvenate your souls.
01:08:39
Matt
the fam, and hopefully Bailey is doing well, and Holly is doing well.
01:08:45
Renato Pagnani
Absolutely.
01:08:46
Matt
Thank you again.
01:08:46
Renato Pagnani
Thanks, of course, for having me.
01:08:47
Matt
um In case no one has heard it before, shout out your Instagram because it's always, it's always great. No matter how like, yeah well, sorry, you don't show up that much for me anymore, but you always post good shit.
01:09:03
Renato Pagnani
I appreciate that. And again, like I will say um Instagram has been social media in general, but like, you know, I always like to post my fits on this year. I only posted God, I feel like maybe 10 posts.
01:09:16
Renato Pagnani
Yeah, and out of that, I think I posted like four or five outfits um this year. so And some of them were just articles I'd written kind of pointing people towards those. um But you know I hope hope in 2025 to start posting more outfits. i But everybody can find me basically on any social media platform um at Renovate, R-E-N-N-A-V-A-T-E. um I actually would like to,
01:09:44
Renato Pagnani
um post more outfit videos, but just kind of do it in a more off the cuff way and just be like, Hey, this is what I'm wearing today. I'm like a 38 year old father who still has an interest in clothes.
01:09:56
Matt
it's Solid, solid.
01:09:56
Renato Pagnani
and i know not Yeah.
01:09:58
Matt
You are our target audience.
01:10:00
Renato Pagnani
There we go and I think I do think there are other people you know in our in our demographics who share our interests and Like to see these things so I want to kind of get back into it in the near but that's where you can find me I'm not I haven't been terribly active, but You know still ah you know feel free to follow
01:10:08
Matt
Yes,
01:10:19
Matt
yes. yes re ah Renovate, Renato is a great album.
01:10:24
Conor Fowler
And an impressive back catalogue.
01:10:27
Matt
Yes, very impressive.
01:10:27
Conor Fowler
That's not a euphemism for your ass.
01:10:29
Matt
that what
01:10:29
Renato Pagnani
That's true. The historical fits like the, and I mean, that's one of the reasons I do do it as like a historical sort of catalog of my outfits. ah Go back, you know, the the outfits speak for themselves, I like to think.
01:10:37
Conor Fowler
Yeah.
01:10:41
Renato Pagnani
So, um you know, got I got got the receipts.
01:10:45
Matt
oh i guess oh Well, everyone, we hope you had a great
01:10:46
Conor Fowler
Excellent.
Conclusion and Social Media Connections
01:10:50
Matt
2024 and hope
01:10:51
Conor Fowler
I know you didn't, but...
01:10:54
Matt
Hopefully, yeah, none of us did, but ah hopefully a better 2025. We are at Apocalypse Studs on Instagram, apocalypsestuds at gmail ah.com. If you want to send questions, comments, concerns, or a meme or whatever the fuck you ever want to send via email. I am Matt Smith at Rebels Ropes.
01:11:18
Conor Fowler
and i'm connor flower at conorflower
01:11:22
Matt
and we will see you in the new year.
01:11:26
Conor Fowler
and
01:11:43
Conor Fowler
And I'm Connor Flower at Connor Flower.