Transcript
Conor Fowler: Hello, hello. Welcome to Apocalypse Duds. I'm Connor Fowler, and this is Apocalypse Duds, as I said.
Matt: And I am Matt Smith.
Conor Fowler: And that's Matt Smith.
Matt: Thanks.
Conor Fowler: Before anything, it was Matt's birthday yesterday. And that, I think, is special because it's good.
Matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's good. It's good. It's nice. It's happy. We made it another time.
Matt: I went around the sun 365 days against my will.
VA Zach: Okay.
Matt: It's OK.
Conor Fowler: Well, like I said, it's an arbitrary measure and I think it becomes more clear every year. And so it's even more worth celebrating because what does it matter?
Matt: Yeah, maybe maybe you're correct.
Conor Fowler: I guess we'll never know. I wanted to bring a special, very important guest on the program since we, people have long highlighted the absence of the youth voice in our program, of course, Matt, pretty old, me pretty old. ah So we're thinking the Gen Z report with Zack Smith, our young buck on the bleeding edge of clothing and culture, scrolling Discord and Instagram endlessly, so you don't have to. Who do you love, ladies, gents, theys and thems? Welcome, Zack Smith, who has the same name
Conor Fowler: Almost, it's mad.
VA Zach: No relation.
Matt: never never yeah No relation. And if your middle name is Alan, that would be wild to me because that is also my middle name.
Conor Fowler: You don't have to out yourselves back.
VA Zach: Yeah, it is.
Matt: Is it really?
VA Zach: Well, I'm going to take this time to make a controversial yet brave statement. Yes, I am a homosexual. ah ah And I do appreciate you ah having me on.
VA Zach: I will say I don't want to bury the lead or misrepresent myself. I have the voice of Gen Z. I have the temperament of Gen Z. I am firmly a millennial, so basically it it's stolen valor.
Matt: ah Okay, nice, nice, yeah.
Conor Fowler: I just thought you were, I just thought you were in touch.
VA Zach: Well, not in that way, but guys.
Conor Fowler: Right? Your pro discord, your pro discord, your pro ah video content, all this kind of stuff. And that's a, that's a, that's a young man's game.
VA Zach: It definitely, it's a number, it was an emerging field.
Conor Fowler: Young person's game.
VA Zach: And I think it's one that I guess through a series of fun circumstances, it's one that I've really responded well to. Not to say that you guys like aren't great because I find this podcast absolutely incredible.
Matt: understandable.
VA Zach: ah Wonderful listening.
Conor Fowler: Whoa there.
VA Zach: Wonderful way to spend a workday. The only podcast that matters, ah check trademark pending.
Matt: ah
Conor Fowler: but Right, right, right.
VA Zach: ah But I do think in terms of actual contemporary content, I'd like have my ear on the ground, my nose to people's feet or what have you, not in a weird way.
Matt: Totally, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Sometimes you say this stuff and I have no idea what you're talking about.
VA Zach: but
Conor Fowler: And I don't mean that in a ah rude way because you are very like communicative, but I have no idea what some of this shit is and there's so much of it.
VA Zach: Well, it fashion is in menswear. I'll insert the subset to begin with because like women's where i don't that's above my pay grade.
Matt: yeah
VA Zach: But there's a lot of content.
Conor Fowler: or so Or something, it's, yeah.
Matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: It's scary, it's got a lot going on.
VA Zach: And I mean, even though a lot of it is BS or stuff that you probably already know or address of advertisement.
VA Zach: There's enough stuff of value that it's certainly worth holding your nose and doom -scrung a little bit.
Matt: Yeah, yeah. Totally.
VA Zach: um I have found maybe a happy medium between doing that and doing all sorts of other things such that I'm not just a terminally online person all the time, just most of the time.
Matt: but Right.
VA Zach: hi
Matt: That's that. That is the balance to be online, but not ah so online that you know every single thing, like everything. No offense to her. Everything I know about Chaperone is ah stuff that I did not sign up to learn.
Matt: And and there's a million celebrities and and other things like this, like all of this shit I learned against my will.
Conor Fowler: Chap is cool though. I mean Sheila got invited to the invite of the White House and said fuck you that You know, I do you know why she said fuck you Yeah,
Matt: Oh, totally.
Matt: and I'm not saying that, like, any of these people suck necessarily so ah because of Palestine. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: and I'd say that's tough shit
Matt: Oh, yeah, it's tough. I'm just saying that, like, like as a ah podcaster that I love said once on an episode, the TikTok search bar is not a place for a person over the age of 40, and I stand by this statement.
Conor Fowler: but prescription
Conor Fowler: Oh, yeah, I know I don't I don't I don't have it.
Matt: I just, yeah.
Conor Fowler: I don't have it.
Matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: I don't have it. I don't like videos
VA Zach: I am teetering on getting a TikTok.
Matt: I have Yeah but the The things that I get forwarded are nine times out of ten an animal like cute related content, which is right up my alley, but like I'll see that shit posted on Instagram explore at some point so I don't I don't need to dive in and like
VA Zach: um I get forwarded stuff from my sister who is older than I am and who basically says like so don't do it. right
Matt: We'll get into this in a bit, but like I don't understand Reddit. I don't understand Discord. um And like for the menswear community, those are two big places that like now everyone is.
Matt: And like maybe I could could have adapted at some point, but like that's just not my shit.
Conor Fowler: Well, yeah, sort of.
Matt: so
VA Zach: I mean, it's it's interesting how it sort of developed because for a long time it was blog driven and based on written word.
Conor Fowler: You heard it here.
VA Zach: So blogs like this Rhetorialist, a certain other podcast that used to work at Complex magazine.
Matt: but
Conor Fowler: continuous learning.
VA Zach: ah Even Ethan, who you had on previously with Street X, Brezatura, it was largely textual.
VA Zach: And Reddit, I guess, was an extension of that because you would just write a long post and hopefully get a bunch of upvotes of karma.
Matt: Right.
VA Zach: And thanks for the gold kind stranger.
Matt: Right. Right. See? yeah i I don't know how this works. I don't know what an upvote or a karma, and that's like I have a vague like vague sense of what it is, but I have no idea how it operates.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, you do, Matt. Yeah, you do.
Conor Fowler: Well, it's not complicated. It's a vote. It's like a you're they're ranked by the number of votes that they get and the post of the most votes wins.
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: You minus a vote by a down vote.
VA Zach: There's a little bit more nuance to it, but that's basically it.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Matt: yeah Yeah, see, I come from the world of message boards where like you know there were six or seven topics that I like went into and followed all the time. So the the modern menswear digital landscape is just not a place for me.
Conor Fowler: and I think it used to be a lot different.
Matt: It's it, it's it, time we'll get into it. But yeah, Zach, thank you for coming on. um What we usually like to open with is where do you live now and where are you from?
VA Zach: So currently I live in Arlington, Virginia, and that is just off of the west of Washington DC.
VA Zach: But I originally grew up in and then just outside of Salisbury, Maryland, which is on Maryland's eastern shore.
Matt: Okay.
Conor Fowler: I always forget that. but That's so crazy.
VA Zach: ah And where exactly I grew up depends on the person that I'm speaking to. ah If you have no idea of geography on the East Coast, then it's, oh, do you know Ocean City, Maryland?
VA Zach: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like half an hour away from there. Oh, that's so cool.
Matt: Right. Right.
VA Zach: Did you go to the beach? That sort of thing.
Conor Fowler: yeah
VA Zach: If if you're from Maryland, then I'll say guess I'm from Salisbury and that's a very novel, like they'll nod, they'll say, oh, cool.
VA Zach: If they are from the shore, then it's like, oh, I'm off of 401 in Salisbury and Parsonsburg.
Conor Fowler: Great steak out there.
VA Zach: And people usually get the gist of that. I grew up ah in the city of Salisbury, but then my family moved out when I was fairly young, ah way out into the rural area, near Purdue's factory.
VA Zach: so We often got the smell of chicken manure.
Conor Fowler: Beautiful.
Matt: The fucking worst.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, if you've been out there, it's truly like...
VA Zach: It was horrible for your news. um But in fact, there also weren't a lot of kids out there at the time, so there wasn't really a lot of socializing that it did. So ah I started my trajectory of being terminally online mostly by being terminally online growing up in the 90s. And that's where I got introduced to things like message boards, like what Matt had said.
VA Zach: ah TV, of course, ah and, you know, ah my parents' HBO subscription. So seeing stuff like...
Matt: Nice. nice
VA Zach: Absolutely. You know, seeing The Wire Live, seeing um Oz Live, stuff of that nature.
Matt: Yeah.
VA Zach: Whether or not that's actually suitable programming for a 10 -year -old, I leave up to people's personal tastes. I'm not here to attack parenting. But I think it was a form of socialization that replaced maybe what I would have gotten from interacting with kids, and I'd like to think it turned out pretty darn well, so.
Matt: I'm feeling Oz is one of those shows like i've I've seen a little bit of it But I feel like that is one of those like Not revolutionary shows but one that like if you see it as ah at a young age, and you're just like, oh, okay cool but yeah Yeah, it's a turning point in a certain way
Conor Fowler: Well, there's a lot of, like, sexual explicit sexual violence in it, so it's, like, really, like...
VA Zach: Yeah, there's both sexual violence and violence violence and there's definitely conversations.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: conversations I wouldn't say conversations, it's more like ah object brutal violence involving people of different races. ah Yep, ah Chris Maloney's in it, J .K.
Conor Fowler: Chris, Big Dick Maloney is in that show.
VA Zach: Simmons is in it. um
Conor Fowler: Fucking jk sims is in the show as a white supremacist like gang leader, right?
Matt: shit yeah that's for you yeah did hold on hold on did dick wolf produce this that tracks
VA Zach: Yes, it's got actually a pretty stellar cast. I think BD Wong, who would later be on Order.
Conor Fowler: Yeah as HBO did and does basically for the most part have excellent casting Yeah, I believe so And you can tell too it's like it's like so much more visceral than
VA Zach: mean
Conor Fowler: his ah his his amazing work on Moan Order. I mean, like it's a hectic show. It's a chaotic show. It's a very I was like extremely depressed when I watched it. It was really heavy, more depressed than usual.
VA Zach: And mind you, and there there's counterbalances like me Rita Moreno has a fairly prominent part and she's a national treasure.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: But even with that, the show is heavy and the show should be heavy because it's about criminals.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, amazing.
VA Zach: ah
Conor Fowler: Well, it's about prison.
VA Zach: Yeah, I think the show does a very adequate job of and highlighting the fact that while there are many, many things mess up with the prison system in this country,
VA Zach: that these people are not necessarily good people ah independent of that.
Conor Fowler: That's not the point of the show! That's not the point of the show!
VA Zach: But it's exacerbated because of how bad prison is.
Conor Fowler: It's that it's ah putting anyone in prison is too bad!
Conor Fowler: Yeah, and it's like these people these people who are these people who are ah incarcerated behave the way that they do because the system is forcing them to.
VA Zach: not that i would
VA Zach: Not that I would It's one of the fundamental questions. I think the system exacerbates, the system exacerbates and causes a lot of the behavior, especially with ah the main, with Keller and a Beecher.
VA Zach: ah But I think there's enough breadcrumbs, there's enough loose thread that you can start to wonder, well, how much of this was in these people to begin with?
Conor Fowler: nature nurture kind of deal.
VA Zach: um Yeah.
Matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: And that is the that is like the sort of fundamental question, I guess. To everything.
VA Zach: and the best part about Oz is that Oz is it such a heavy show even when it's funny because there are moments where it is like actually funny ah that assume the monologues guess some of the wordplay yes it makes the show like the wire look
Matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, and like the Greek chorus, I think that opens the show. Yeah.
VA Zach: Pretty dark TV comparison even though a bunch of other screwed up stuff is happening on that as well.
Matt: ah Right, right.
Matt: I mean, we've talked about it before, but like, Oz, I, you know, from what I know about it and what I've seen, it, it and the Sopranos and a lot of the like, TV from the late 90s, early 2000s, like, that gave birth to what we saw from Mad Men, and we did a fucking three episode, you know, long, long thing of Mad Men.
VA Zach: Oh, I heard that retrospective.
Conor Fowler: Take it out.
VA Zach: I had thoughts, but...
Matt: Yeah, yeah, but you know like like this this was like a wild, I don't know, 15 or so years of like legacy television re like reinventing itself, essentially.
Conor Fowler: The Renaissance, or however you want.
Matt: Yeah, yeah. And you know like I'm not really a big TV person, but I feel like this is what this is what so many things have been chasing since, and it's it doesn't get close.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, however you want to package it.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, if you want to watch TV, that would be the time of TV to watch, I think.
Matt: ah totally
Conor Fowler: a
VA Zach: And I think Prestige TV back then, part of it is that HBO had a certain amount of cash it in the late 90s and early 2000s to be able to present stuff like this matter of factly and then people would just be like, oh, but then they'd have to sit on it and really wonder why they're reacting to that.
Matt: Right, right.
VA Zach: um It asked a lot of the viewer. And back then, I think the viewer was more willing to give that, if that makes any sense.
VA Zach: As opposed to something like Lost, for example, which was the mid -2000, it asked a lot of its viewers, granted it had some questionable writing, questionable plotting, ah but it didn't hit in the same way because I think it asked a lot of its viewers while also sort of trying to force feed the answer, while pretending not to.
Conor Fowler: You can.
Conor Fowler: yeah And it was bad. yeah Yeah, I mean, they can't do that. It's like you can't like have a like the hidden clues. You know, it's like if you want to do that sort of thing fine, it's not as serious. It's like it makes it a different it makes it it it makes it like cable show.
VA Zach: And there's nothing wrong with being a cable show. Like, I like cable shows. um But I think if you're going in with a sort of vibe and a sort of expectation of your audience, then it's worth sort of sticking to that. It's worth um holding fast to that, even if you're facing pressures from like a network or if you're facing pressures from an audience who wants a bunch of answers when you know in your heart and in your soul it's a story that you don't want to tell give away until six years from now.
VA Zach: um I think good story speaks for itself, and a good story can and should be able to stand on its own merits.
Matt: yeah
VA Zach: An audience will find it, an audience will appreciate it, and the people that don't appreciate it, then there's a bunch of other shows.
Matt: Yes.
VA Zach: Sorry. yeah
Matt: Right. Right. Yeah. This is why I love Michael Bay's Transformers because it it's it's a beginning.
Conor Fowler: Matt, that is the most elegant fucking point the way that you made that point ever. Perfect. Perfect, perfect, perfect.
VA Zach: We're good. Can't do anything else after this. We're set.
Conor Fowler: But and the real the real fans of the show will know Matt loves Transformers.
Matt: dude i do love transformers i grew up on transformers angie i joe and all this other shit but yeah like i'm i'm a so yeah yeah it's got but it's got like a beginning a middle and an end and a lot of like wild shit in the meantime and it like yeah it might go a little long sometimes but like i can do two and a half hour i can't i can do two hours
Conor Fowler: No, it's good. I think it's great. I think it's awesome.
VA Zach: No, it legitimately is good.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: baby wow
VA Zach: Well, movies are too long. There's a pretty lengthy conversation on, I think it was MFA, but it might have been somewhere else, but this the thesis was movies are too long, but it's okay if there's some quality stuff happening in
Conor Fowler: Yeah, fuck that.
Matt: I can see that.
Matt: Yeah.
VA Zach: the additional hours that may not rate.
Conor Fowler: Between robots.
Matt: Yeah. Right.
VA Zach: If it's character building cool, if it's plot building cool, if it's just an hour of misdirect or an hour of flash substance, then then I don't need that.
VA Zach: I'm going to fall asleep.
Matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: So the point is you need to have stuff in your movies beginning to make it good.
VA Zach: or
VA Zach: You need something. Like, i need a I need something. You need a framework. Either actual Well, lower is not low.
Matt: Yeah. yeah
Conor Fowler: Well, you yeah we know that you need to to to to to to... What do you mean we expect less of our audiences now? People are forced to have lower expectations now and to did not demand less, I think, because they've been retrained.
VA Zach: So... It's fine to have basic narrative basic narrative structure. I don't think anyone's arguing against that.
Conor Fowler: Well, how do they make movies three hours long?
VA Zach: It's not...
Conor Fowler: They fill them with dumb shit.
Matt: Or in Michael Bay's case, they blow up shit, which is kind of fun.
VA Zach: but um Same with ah Mad Max.
Conor Fowler: Pyrotechnics count?
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: That was a fair movie. The first one was a fair movie. It was fine. It gave you what you were looking for. I thought, like, I didn't expect it to be, like, revelatory.
Matt: Oh no, not at all, which is why I enjoy it.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, I thought it was nice. It's like sometimes like a movie that is whatever is like is like fine.
Matt: yeah It's fun. It's, it's dumb. Like it's enjoyable. That's, that's kind of what I, I don't know what I enjoy with watching for the most part.
VA Zach: I'm okay with a dumb movie. If it's clear that it's gonna be a dumb movie, or if it's a dumb movie done well, I'm okay with it. I'm okay with two hours of dumbness.
Matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: What about white chick?
VA Zach: If it's...
Conor Fowler: What about white chicks? the Wayne's Brothers white chicks.
VA Zach: Um... So... Well...
Conor Fowler: I feel like everyone has a deep relationship with this film.
Matt: I do not.
VA Zach: I think that's... that's a statement, isn't it? Um...
Conor Fowler: But you know what I mean?
VA Zach: So...
Conor Fowler: I feel like people are like, they really love it or they really hate it.
VA Zach: I...
VA Zach: I appreciate the commentary that they put in that movie. I think for its time, absolutely hilarious and a great movie.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, it was really sharp.
VA Zach: um I think if it were being made now, I think they you would want to sort of retool a little bit.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, minorly.
VA Zach: um ah da And not in a like hashtag, we got to placate the woke mob.
Matt: right yeah
Conor Fowler: yeah
VA Zach: But like some of it really is kind of tone deaf, and there's some definite, um some of the jokes about gender just don't really age well. ah ah Some of it really leans on some not so great stereotyping of black men and white women interactions or black men and black women interactions.
Conor Fowler: I definitely have not. recently.
VA Zach: And I think there's ways to tell the same point um without resorting to that.
Conor Fowler: Oh, yeah.
Matt: All right, yeah.
VA Zach: But like the jokes are hilarious.
Conor Fowler: but Don't involve either of the Waynes brothers.
VA Zach: I mean...
Matt: Well, one ah one of them came out like in like staunch support of like trans rights, which I thought was really cool.
VA Zach: It's
Conor Fowler: Really, which one?
VA Zach: very nice of him.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think maybe, uh, fuck, I don't remember if it was, uh, which member of the Wayans brothers that was, but they maybe had like.
Conor Fowler: Damn.
VA Zach: And to clarify, do you mean Damon Way and Gwen Junior?
Conor Fowler: Major Payne comes out in support of trans rights.
Matt: but What was that? that
VA Zach: To clarify, Demi Damon -Wings, or Damon -Wings Jr., his son, who is also famous and also funny, but, uh...
Matt: no i think i think it was no it was marlin so it was marlin i think uh he has a like a trans kid yeah and he was basically like why are we why are we arguing about this dumb shit like yeah so hats up the way his brothers they they rule
Conor Fowler: I didn't know that he had offspring.
VA Zach: Whoa!
VA Zach: Oh, wow.
Conor Fowler: Fuck yeah, man.
VA Zach: Nice.
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah, that's awesome.
VA Zach: All about it!
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. Yeah, you you've made a fan of me again, Mr.
VA Zach: Hell yeah.
Matt: Nice.
Conor Fowler: Wayans. I'm no longer expecting white chicks too.
Matt: Yeah, please, please no, please no. ah
VA Zach: Now that you've said it, um it's watching it come in 2025.
Conor Fowler: Did they make it already?
Matt: Oh, God damn it. If we're correct about this.
Conor Fowler: Well, you heard it here first.
Matt: Yeah, like I.
VA Zach: I would like royalties, Paramount, Viacom, Warner Brothers, Zaslav,
Conor Fowler: This is both a pathetic.
Matt: Please, God, there we go.
VA Zach: ah
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, it's both a pathetic and prophetic show.
Matt: Yes, yes, truly. Zach, what what was your journey into the menswear world like? ah what What was the capitalist?
VA Zach: So I think there's two separate sort of things because on the one hand, I grew up, I played the viola throughout school.
Matt: Oh, hell yes!
VA Zach: And because of that, I often had to be in concert dress, so white shirt, dress pants, et cetera. So I was used to the notion of being in sort of formal wear and used to the notion of having to dress up a certain way and sort of making the mental connection between getting dressed up and getting dressed formally.
Conor Fowler: Huh.
VA Zach: um But beyond that, I was very much a product of the mid 2000s, so the resurgence of preppy style.
Conor Fowler: Hmm.
Matt: Oh yeah.
VA Zach: ah So my school was big on Hollister. It was big on ah American Eagle. um Salisbury at the time didn't have an Abercrombie, but people went to the flea market and somehow found old lacrosse shirts.
Matt: Nice.
Conor Fowler: Mmm, yeah.
VA Zach: You know, khaki shorts, berries, flip flops were a thing. um It was a weird thing to you because it technically wasn't a part of of my high school's dress code, but people just sort of took it as their quote, unquote, act of rebellion, even though it wasn't that in the slightest.
Conor Fowler: Mmm.
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: Hm.
VA Zach: I latched on to that.
Conor Fowler: Did anybody think it was edgy? Like...
VA Zach: Well, I think that I went to a school that although it was majority -minority, um the specific circles that I ran and the specific classes that I took, it was largely white.
Conor Fowler: Mm hmm.
VA Zach: So I think in a way, people saw it as their little cheeky way of
Conor Fowler: Sure.
VA Zach: ah taking it to the man or something like that ah whether or they just sort of were like we're just gonna wear whatever we want who cares which they were right hi exactly um
Conor Fowler: Nothing says rebellion like Hollister, yeah.
Conor Fowler: that's so funny and what do you think what do you make quickly of the the rebranding of prep and sort of terminology like because I don't even really when I think about Hollister in that I think like mall brand that is like a separate thing from prep which of course it has a prep identity preppy identity but it's you know I feel like it's Earth's, it's, it's a universal way, but it's kind of not like a lot of people come on the show and talk about that. So I don't know. I was just, just I was just like wearing a band t -shirt at that time.
VA Zach: yeah Well, I think Prep P, the actual aesthetic, I think it did gain some legs in the mid -2000s. Part of it was um the resurgence of like that sort of pop culture becoming Envo again. Part of it certainly was people like Kanye West and Andre 3000.
Conor Fowler: Sure.
VA Zach: um And so I think people were trying to emulate that style however they could. And if you were in middle America, the best that you could do was Hollister.
VA Zach: The best you could do, or The Gap, or Abercrombie, if you're telling this cool enough.
Matt: right right
VA Zach: um ah Somehow...
Conor Fowler: So with that, cause like I, all of this is completely foreign to me, frankly. Like I was wearing like Kurt Cobain cosplay, you know, I was like, I don't, I never shopped at those stores because I was like, they have perfume on them.
Conor Fowler: Do you know what I mean?
VA Zach: the stories were terrible!
Matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's what I, and I don't mean that in a like, Oh my God, it's too gay.
VA Zach: The dark...
Conor Fowler: I mean, like this is, this is too much for me.
Matt: it smell you You mean it smelled like shit?
VA Zach: yeah
Conor Fowler: Right, exactly, it was horrible scent.
VA Zach: it is it is a I don't understand how people shop in this I don't understand how I went in this stores back then I don't understand how people did they smell horrible they smelled like a locker room they were usually dark
Matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's and that's what's the reverse kind of scent thing, like the Abercrombie locker room kind of scent conflation.
VA Zach: ah
VA Zach: But I guess it smelled like Axe, and i guess the I guess they did a good enough job of sort of braiding that as a sort of end of the way of how to live, which in hindsight is very, very weird because, you know, I've been in a locker room where people used Axe instead of showering.
Matt: yeah
Conor Fowler: Exactly.
VA Zach: It's not a pleasurable experience.
Matt: but not at all
Conor Fowler: Well, that's the old lie, right? I mean, that's the, if you use this product, people, women, whatever will fuck you.
VA Zach: Yeah, it's...
Conor Fowler: And I think that that's like the, at least in 2004, that was the messaging, right?
VA Zach: Right.
VA Zach: I think it was a very sort of simple way of saying, if you do this, you will be cool.
Matt: yeah
VA Zach: And I think it's a very...
Conor Fowler: Yeah, you'll fit in, you'll have friends, whatever.
Matt: right
VA Zach: Yeah, it's a simple message that people very quickly jumped onto, especially because it wasn't actually that difficult to adopt. You wear a color for a polo shirt or two. ah You wear some khaki shorts. You wear some shoes that don't have laces. You spray a bunch of axon. And you call it a day. ah I sometimes did that. I, of course, was hamstrung by the fact that growing up, my family was not well to do. My parents were great. They did the best they could. They were working class people.
VA Zach: um in in a small town. So we did what we could in terms of access, but it did a lot of substitutes like wearing a colorful t -shirt or ah button downs instead of foolish shirts, stuff like that. um But beyond that, I think high school for me was just a matter of trying to get through it as best I could. Again, it's mostly black in a series of white classrooms. um My favorite high school memory, i think and I've said this in other places, I will be kind and withhold the name of the offending teacher.
VA Zach: um we
Conor Fowler: We can believe it on the other end, you know.
VA Zach: now i value weak i i i do The person had good intent, but we read Tom Sawyer and then we started Huckleberry Finn.
Conor Fowler: but No, I'm kidding.
Conor Fowler: Oh, no.
VA Zach: And I was asked in front of our class if I was OK with um Mark Twain's excessive use of the n -word.
Matt: Oh.
Conor Fowler: Jesus Christ.
VA Zach: And this wasn't a one -on -one conversation. This is like during in class. I'm like, um
VA Zach: OK, I guess, because I i do. Before it's time, it was commonplace. And also Mark Twain just liked the word a lot.
VA Zach: so And also, ah you know, it's 2004.
Matt: Right.
VA Zach: I'm 15 or 16. I am fighting of losing tide here. So I said, like, cool, great. um I think they made a very large show of not saying the word whenever they were asking people to read it out loud.
VA Zach: And at the time, I always thought that was just very, very odd decision to pay lip service to the fact that the word is offensive, but also continue reading it as if there's no issue with saying it now.
Matt: Right.
VA Zach: But it's hard. i can see I can empathize with someone in the position that they're in. But also, I think it's sort of intuitive to just not do that.
VA Zach: um
Matt: Yeah yeah.
VA Zach: And I think there's sort of a lot of, there's a lot of that sort of othering, notness not as blatant as that example, but it came up and eventually sort of get used, I got used to it, I found wait outlets for it, I eventually found friends who were reasonable people, and then I graduated.
VA Zach: and that I entered college.
Conor Fowler: but wow dude
VA Zach: But um that was pretty much how I dressed for quite some time. So I graduated high school in 2007, and up until 2012, I was still firmly dressing similar to that. ah ah Eventually, I sort of I got more casual because I realized it's college, no one actually cares what you're wearing, so it was mostly t -shirts and jeans and such.
Conor Fowler: Wow dude.
VA Zach: But no real developments in style until I moved to DC in 2012. I didn't really have an idea of what I wanted to do after I graduated with a bachelor's, so I made the interesting choice to apply for master's programs.
VA Zach: and George Washington made the interesting choice of accepting me. ah So that's not nothing.
Conor Fowler: Hey.
Conor Fowler: That's not nothing, right? I mean, that's significant.
VA Zach: And it's very interesting.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's liberty but that's like one of the best universities in the country, in the world. So congratulations.
VA Zach: It's one of the best, but for math. Not so great. It's a good math program. um
Conor Fowler: Well, it's like, but people do that all the time.
VA Zach: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: People end up in schools that are, it's not their specialty exactly, but it's like, oh, it's Princeton, right? It's like, they're not known for their whatever, but who gives a fuck?
VA Zach: Right.
VA Zach: I think.
Conor Fowler: It's the most expensive university in the country, right? Still?
VA Zach: Yes, and I think the I should have realized there was something up when I was sort of obsessively calculating how much I could write off of the student loan refund that I got.
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah!
VA Zach: Meanwhile, I'm seeing someone drive up to campus in D .C. Park on Street in a Lambo. Just like, wait, what?
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: And then they walk out and they talk about, oh, yeah, got world civs, such a bummer.
Conor Fowler: Sounds about right.
VA Zach: It's like, oh, garre you're like 19. Cool. Great.
Conor Fowler: That's the kind of person you want to rub shoulders with.
VA Zach: Oh, my God. ah
Conor Fowler: So you would have been going for a master's in mathematics or is it something more specific?
VA Zach: So what if in mathematics and it would have been applied math at that because at the time, at first, And in my admissions statement, I had mentioned wanting to go into academia because of representation, um which admirable, I was kind of talking out of my ass a little bit. And I'd say I quickly pivoted to sort of wanting to go into applied math to get a job in or related to the government sort of
VA Zach: due to my time while I figured out my next move. um It is a very haphazard way of planning a life, I will say, but I had a sort of relative idea, get a job in the Fed somehow, get tenured or work out the GS ranks, dot, dot, dot prosper.
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: And mind you, i had and I had the sort of mental image of that and also thinking, you know, If I'm going to do this, I should also start dressing better. So I took the money that I had, I went to Georgetown, started shopping.
Conor Fowler: six
VA Zach: But as I had no idea of what I'm doing, I went to places like H and &M.
Matt: Right.
VA Zach: and And the Gaff, Banana Republic, found the most garishly bright colored things. ah Basics, some blazers, Sheena, stuff like that. ah But just a shot equality and me not knowing any better, me just looking at things like Tumblr, me looking at things like the Sartorialist blog, ah seeing that sort of thing reflected, I'm thinking, OK, cool. I'm good. I'm stylish. um you know I don't necessarily have the funds that these people do, but that's OK. I don't live in New York, but I could.
VA Zach: um But that was fine. And then I sort of had a flaming meltdown the next year and dropped out. But in hindsight, I think we don't, we, society, we ah we don't really do enough of a service to people in explaining that you can change your mind and you can always
Conor Fowler: You're allowed to do that too.
Conor Fowler: No service whatsoever.
VA Zach: You can change your mind, you can decide that something is not right for you and it doesn't make you a bad person or devalue any of your accomplishments.
Conor Fowler: A quitter.
VA Zach: but
Matt: Totally.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, fuck that. We're against that sort of thing on this program.
VA Zach: But... Appreciate it. um But it's definitely something, a train of thinking that still pervades society and it sort of impacts things like how we dress and how we act in social circles as well.
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: You look like a dropout, Mr. Sweater vest.
VA Zach: This, sir, is a fleece knit, just to clarify, not a sweater.
Conor Fowler: I love it. I love it. I love it. I think I saw it.
VA Zach: ah Also, it was from an estate sale. it was um I don't think the person is dead, thankfully. I would feel very bad if that were the case, but um it was cool. It was five bucks, so I put it on.
Matt: Last!
Conor Fowler: Hell yeah. Five bucks is great.
VA Zach: and Mind you, around this time, I looked up MFA. I went on Reddit. I saw that there were people talking about clothes. I threw my hat in the ring and some truly godawful fits.
VA Zach: It posted them to to ah the what are you wearing today thread and was shocked that people weren't telling me how great I was dressing, ah even though the height of my fits were wearing like a striped shirt from American Eagle and then a pair of critter pants from Ralph Lauren.
Conor Fowler: Hm.
Conor Fowler: and
VA Zach: ah The fits were not great. um But at that point, my concern was mostly like, how am I going to make a living given that I'm not in school and I'm drowning in debt?
VA Zach: Worked at Whole Foods and somehow amassed a fairly lengthy tenure there. That was a very interesting development, partly because they don't have a dress code so I could wear whatever.
Conor Fowler: through the whole transition, right?
VA Zach: What's up?
Conor Fowler: Through their transition or whatever, through their like corporate intercession.
VA Zach: Oh yes, so I worked pre and post Amazon buyout. ah Yes, there is a definite shift in the company culture, but even before then there is a shift and I will say Partly for the benefit of my friends who still work for the company and partly because, you know, I'm never closing a door fully, you get what you get out of it.
VA Zach: I do think um you just have to be mindful of where your money is going if you're a consumer and where your hard or work is going if you're a worker.
Matt: Right, right.
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: We wouldn't want to slander a billionaire on this program.
VA Zach: and if you're
VA Zach: Well, I mean, like, I have a laundry list of billionaires I could slander, but...
Conor Fowler: Bezos is on the bottom.
VA Zach: I mean... You know, Bezos is... hovering. He's, like, at... you know, Mount Whitney.
VA Zach: there's
Conor Fowler: We don't know the kind of stuff that he's doing ultimately is what the reality is.
VA Zach: There's...
Conor Fowler: We don't know what he's doing.
VA Zach: Yeah... ah He's Pike's Peak, um...
Conor Fowler: Right.
VA Zach: in Colorado. There's a guy from South Africa. He's Everest.
Matt: Right, right.
Conor Fowler: yeah
VA Zach: You know, South Africa guy, Everest, he's the Mariana Trench, Bud Belton, that sort of thing.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Matt: Well,
VA Zach: um
Matt: truly.
VA Zach: But I think as the saying goes, there are no good billionaires. So I think my dream in life ah first would have been to be a kept man, which that didn't work out.
VA Zach: But um if I'm able to live comfortably, then that would be the goal. But I digress.
Matt: Right.
VA Zach: ah
VA Zach: and MFA was interesting. They really sort of championed first the basic bastard where you just wear like, you know, chinos, button down, all that fun stuff. And that was easy for me.
VA Zach: It was cheap for me. They said go to Uniqlo. And so I bought a bunch of stuff from Uniqlo, wore that a bunch. um But I would also find weird stuff, you know, a polo shirt that has a bunch of monkeys on it, or
Matt: Right.
VA Zach: OCBD with camels on it or like red pants. Just some weird way so that I could stand out even if a little bit from this prescribed list of things that you should do. um and Honestly, life was pretty good and then a pandemic happened.
Matt: Right, yeah.
VA Zach: ah I got promoted during COVID. I went into lower management for Whole Foods during COVID. and It is many words, the basic sentiment was, we have no idea what's happening, um but good luck.
Matt: Sweet, yeah
VA Zach: and so clearlyy ship it you know it and The best part was unlike most people who have the benefit of working from home or God forbid, getting COVID and just quarantining.
VA Zach: I somehow, some way, was healthy enough to go to work every day during that whole time. Lost my mind, lost my marbles. um I lost a significant amount of weight during those two years.
Matt: yeah.
VA Zach: um And then eventually, the 2022 hit, we realized that the world's not ending in a and I maybe I just don't want to work for a billionaire.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: and and so i qui um you know There are some very interesting circumstances that led to quitting that we can maybe go off like for because it gets a little interesting. But ah I realized it was not a good fit for me at the time. I quit. I had a fun couple of months of being unemployed. And in those fun couple months of being unemployed, I rediscovered Reddit.
VA Zach: I found Ethan's blog. I found...
Matt: thin
VA Zach: Ethan's great. I met him last month in New Work. He is basically as you would expect from any of his writing or any of his other podcast appearances.
Matt: yeah
VA Zach: um I saw Yokohama menswear. Alex is his actual name. he had a very sort of well thought out post about how he views clothes in the sort of intersection between actual aesthetics like workwear and ivy and stuff of that nature and then also qualities of clothes like worksmanship and fabrication and stuff of that nature and that sort of got the ball rolling for me to think about well what what do I want in that
Matt: That's awesome!
VA Zach: So first it led to me buying like designer clothes because of course I assume that designer things equal quality and of course the very first designer I bought was Higa Boss not realizing their very very lengthy problematic history throughout time.
VA Zach: ah
Matt: Oh yeah.
VA Zach: yeah ba I don't want to say
Conor Fowler: Hmm You did not see that coming
VA Zach: You know, I don't want to say they're Nazi sympathizers, but also... um Yeah, they're... Yeah. Again, I bought Volatiyaga right before that whole crisis, that whole controversy occurred with their advertising, and then I promptly had a few months sweating out if and how I was going to resell some of the stuff without looking like someone that, let's say, condoned.
Matt: yeah Right.
VA Zach: uh the abuse of children and i bought arena um well i didn't buy it from them directly i found it secondhand but i found a pair of arena sneakers and then i found yeah well for me they would have been
Conor Fowler: Why are you buying? I mean, what are you buying from Balenciaga anyway?
Conor Fowler: Okay, yeah, that's what I think. I was just wondering what the piece was. Like, was it something extravagant? Was it something elaborate? I don't know. I guess the arenas kind of are.
VA Zach: ah For me, it would have been extravagant. It was a giant chunky asphalt gray wedge sneaker, which forts, they're cool, um but they're very, very hard to style. And I tried my best. I wore them basically with every single thing I could possibly muster, even though a pair of solidly asphalt gray sneakers, not the most versatile thing.
VA Zach: um But then I realized, you know, maybe I just don't like stuff, and then made a conscious effort to try and get rid of all my clues.
Conor Fowler: yeah
VA Zach: So...
Conor Fowler: Yeah, so you got rid of the
VA Zach: I got rid of the Balenci's, I had some stuff from All Saints that I got rid of, I had some... ah somehow I found like a Givenchy blazer that I like just got rid of in a huff. um I think I found somehow a copy of Goodbye Things by Fimiya Sasaki and figured, you know, all of this stuff, the me wearing a bunch of bright clothes, the me wearing a bunch of designer things, it's all sort of chasing this sort of idea of contentment. What if instead I just
VA Zach: Oh, and only a few things. And then I'm happy. And then that's life. So slightly whittled down to maybe like 30 items of clothing, period. And no, that was me in like 20, that was me 2023.
Conor Fowler: That's you right now or that's you in the past, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
VA Zach: um So my joy lived like that for a year. So I had a couple of t -shirts, a couple button downs, vintage,
VA Zach: a couple vintage jackets that I just thought were cool. And you know I would be like washing my clothes twice a week. I'd be doing things like excessively counting ah how many wears I could get on a shirt without smelling bad or stuff of that nature.
VA Zach: It was, in hindsight, a very sort of...
Conor Fowler: It's like approximately three. It depends on the day.
VA Zach: It depends on the day, it depends on the person. um this is back when dc was still very warm
Conor Fowler: Yeah, that's as true as it is.
VA Zach: so
Conor Fowler: Summertime, DC. It is a fucking lovely, amazing place, truly. ah just in just like And I wonder like if you compare it to like a Vietnamese jungle, what's the huge difference?
Conor Fowler: Is it a huge difference? I don't know. What's the difference between 100 degrees and 120 degrees? I guess we'll find out.
VA Zach: This was back when DC was still very warm, so... Vietnamese jungle. But, you know, I mean, if the Department of Government Efficiency has its way, perhaps I tangibly may not have a job.
Conor Fowler: I think that's unlikely for us in this day.
Matt: but
Matt: Oh my god.
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: That's what everybody is saying. How are they just going to fire everyone? They're going to cut everyone's jobs off and say, go fuck yourself.
VA Zach: but so
Conor Fowler: Starve. I mean, i just it doesn't it doesn't like, how is that even possible?
VA Zach: I mean, in life, i've now I've taken the tack of saying, you know, if I have to wonder how are things possible, someone's gonna find a way.
Conor Fowler: I guess it's me.
VA Zach: So, usually I mean that in a positive way, like, oh, what can we do?
Conor Fowler: Yeah, true.
VA Zach: What can we do to resolve this problem? But it also works in the opposite way, like how horrible can human beings get? and
Conor Fowler: Ooh, ha ha ha! Go on, i'm i'm well I welcome
VA Zach: And mind you, ah how horrible can human beings get? I think it's colored a lot of how I view the world. Not necessarily that I'm cynical about human beings, but more so that I, see i for the longest time, assumed either ill intent or I assumed ulterior motives of people. And so I'd usually respond in ways that sort of counter that.
VA Zach: I think that extends to the sensesza how I dress as well. I worked in Whole Foods and Service. I dealt with customer returns. I dealt with customer complaints. I got screamed at, cussed at, all sorts of stuff for eight years.
Conor Fowler: This was in DC.
VA Zach: ah
Conor Fowler: This is in Salisbury.
VA Zach: DC northern and Northern Virginia, yes.
Conor Fowler: Jesus Christ, I'm sure that was horrible.
VA Zach: um DC stores are interesting. I'll say that.
Conor Fowler: Well, this is a bathroom, right? I mean, it's a bathroom.
VA Zach: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's a bathroom, so people are in there.
VA Zach: And mind you, the last Whole Feeds I worked at was the one at, um, what used to be Georgetown, what is currently Glover Park, the one that piloted the, um, hands -free payment from Amazon for Whole Feeds.
Conor Fowler: a all That they found out was that they found out was actually people right Spencer this I'm not anyway they really got upon it a ah get crazy That's crazy yes
VA Zach: Yeah, I saw it work there for the...
VA Zach: like Yeah! Um... Yeah! um And well, I technically can't...
Matt: Hands -free payment.
VA Zach: And so, I can't technically get too much into it because we signed and NDAs and I don't know how long that lasts and I have no money for Amazon to sue. What's up?
VA Zach: And, you know, I don't have money for Amazon to take from me more than they already do, but...
Conor Fowler: If they want to sue this program, bring it on. We need the publicity.
VA Zach: I mean, you don't want Amazon publicity, but...
Conor Fowler: But not Matt.
Conor Fowler: yeah they're They're actually taking us on to their podcasting network. No.
VA Zach: I mean, though now on Instagram, I'm seeing Amazon's ads are shifting towards, like, shop the runway, and it's Amazon selling, like, a jacket from capital, or stuff from Bodhi.
Matt: Sick. Fucking sick.
Conor Fowler: you know
VA Zach: Like, stuff that I wouldn't buy, but it's like, oh, I can go and buy these designer goods for from Amazon rather than the manufacturer who is in many cases almost as bad but still better than Amazon. Okay, cool, great, thanks.
Conor Fowler: It's like, what what what country do you want the child to be sitting in when they're sewing the buttons onto the du dress?
VA Zach: But I think having to deal with all of that, I think I learned to present myself in a way that maybe disarmed people a little bit.
VA Zach: um You know, I'm obviously a black person, I'm obviously a black man, and I'm in an environment that is largely populated by white women or women of color.
VA Zach: So the instinct people have whenever they would encounter me at Whole Foods or in other places where it worked, it's of suspicion um or of
Conor Fowler: People, yeah, Jesus.
VA Zach: fear that I might be just some angry assertive but or anger aggressive black man who's trying to put whatever on them and who might rape them or something.
Conor Fowler: Wearing all foods, yeahs yeah, amazing.
VA Zach: And then it would immediately sort of shift the opposite way. It'd be different. It'd be polite. It'd be genial. I would make jokes. um I would empathize with their situation as best I could.
VA Zach: Sometimes it actually was a situation that sucked. And sometimes people are being unreasonable.
Conor Fowler: Haha.
VA Zach: But that sort of carried over to how he dressed. you know I would wear button downs. I would wear chinos. I'd wear ah you know flat shoes. Because at the time we weren't wearing loafers.
VA Zach: um needed something s slipp We needed something that was slip resistant for fear of cracking our heads open and suing Amazon. ah i I think that sort of mentality, it sort of stuck with me. So when I started up my new job, where I currently work as a contractor for the EIA, which is a subgrouping of the Department of Energy,
VA Zach: ah and And it's funny it's funny because I mentioned I worked for Whole Foods, I worked technically for Amazon. um My big break because I stopped working at a soulless corporation that was owned by Amazon was to work for the government in service of Big Oil.
VA Zach: ah
Matt: yeah it right yeah
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: um but But all of. I enjoy what I do. um What I do makes a difference. i truck I help track survey data of petroleum imports, and that does have an impact on the markets, both of as a commodity and as of people who just want to import crude oil or other stuff for whatever purpose.
VA Zach: um
Matt: Right, right, yeah
VA Zach: It's a nice job. It's not necessarily my forever job. But the benefit of it is it gave me a lot of freedom to do other stuff like think about clues.
VA Zach: Or...
Matt: Hell yeah.
Conor Fowler: no but
Matt: Yeah. As any corporate job should.
VA Zach: god ah It's...
Conor Fowler: Dude, it's so fucking annoying. It's good. It's lucky. That's like a good job.
VA Zach: It's good. You know, if they want to paint me twice as much, it'd be better. But I...
Conor Fowler: But like, what are the odds of a child sneezing in your face? For example, I'm just saying you're slightly protected.
VA Zach: Oh. I mean, the odds are zero since we're fully remote, but...
Conor Fowler: You're insulated. Yeah, right, and you're remote. So yeah, you never get, yeah that that's great.
VA Zach: Great!
Conor Fowler: That's a great job. It's a remote job. It's a job that they are not fucking with you that much. Great.
VA Zach: it
Conor Fowler: Congratulations. You should be proud of that. That's like something to be proud of.
VA Zach: it's It's... Wonderful. I appreciate the freedom that it gives, um especially since my wonderful partner, my wonderful husband, ah he had a share of health issues and it was very easy for me to be portable and say, oh, hey, I got to do a thing.
VA Zach: um I'll be working from the hospital today while we wait for him to have out pieces surgery on his broken leg.
Matt: Right.
VA Zach: And my boss is like, oh, okay, great, cool.
Matt: but
VA Zach: Keep me posted. Hopefully it gets better.
Matt: Nice.
VA Zach: But it's a dream.
Matt: Nice. That's the tree.
VA Zach: um But one interesting aspect of it is the work is nice. The job environment, my apartment, nice. But it's very it's it's very routine work.
Conor Fowler: but but Wow.
VA Zach: And after a few weeks, I sort of started losing my marbles a little bit just because of how monotonous or routine it got. And that led to me thinking about, oh, how can I make my day more interesting?
VA Zach: I could dress up. I could actually not.
Conor Fowler: but
VA Zach: I could wear things other than a t -shirt and baggy shorts. And I think that's what led to the impetus of me actually putting forth some effort into leveling up my style.
VA Zach: um At first, go ahead.
Matt: yeah, hell yeah
Conor Fowler: I said zero to hero, zero to hero. Right?
VA Zach: so i mean i could send them to you but yeah it's so it's funny i took some time over the summer and then a few weeks ago to look back at
Conor Fowler: Like, yeah, because where are the old fits? That's what we want. We want the old fits with the gray shoes.
Conor Fowler: Not right now. Not right now. I'm saying, you know, into the into the duds vault.
VA Zach: the sort of old fits I could find you know on Instagram, on Facebook. um There was something there. like Even if it was, like oh i oh, I'd wear all gray or all black or intentionally oversized stuff.
VA Zach: ah There is the gem of something resembling coherent thought about clues.
Matt: Totally.
VA Zach: It was always hamstrung by a lack of vision and a lack of budget. um
Conor Fowler: yeah
VA Zach: Then I came to find out the budget thing was a non -issue. I just needed to suck it up and go on eBay more or go out to Goodwill more often. And the detailing was just a matter of trial and error, just thinking like, okay, I could wear a tie.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: Let's see what that does. I could wear a baseball cap. Let's see what that does.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, dude, you're figuring it out.
VA Zach: the And I think
Conor Fowler: What do you think about the baseball cap?
VA Zach: ah team baseball.
Conor Fowler: Because you're shaved headed now, right?
VA Zach: What's up?
Conor Fowler: You're shaved headed now?
VA Zach: Okay, so gri ah I was growing my hair out basically from 2023 to late September.
Conor Fowler: Oh.
VA Zach: ah Partly because of cause, partly because he just wanted to see how big it could grow before he got tired of cutting it. And got to maybe a couple inches worth of actual growth. ah At that point, I was wearing preschool hats pretty regularly so you couldn't tell how wet my hair was.
VA Zach: But I would, you know, trim it for maintenance sake. And then one day, I'm pretty sure it was the day of the debate, maybe the VP debate.
VA Zach: And after the VP debate, I really wasn't feeling it.
Conor Fowler: That fateful day.
VA Zach: I was stressing out. I don't want to say Tim Wall's caused me to shave my head in a panic.
VA Zach: um But I tried to trim my hair. The guard on the razor accidentally slipped off, took out a chunk of my hair, and I was like, well, fuck.
Conor Fowler: Damn.
VA Zach: I've got a finished job, I guess.
Conor Fowler: And then the universe told you, yeah, yeah, yeah.
VA Zach: ah Went fully buzzed. And so now I just have a short haircut and just been sort of living that life. ah
Conor Fowler: Looks good. I thought you had it. Uh, what do they say?
VA Zach: it was ah It was basically next to skin on top for a while.
Conor Fowler: Polish on top.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, and that this, I think, rocks. I think this is good.
VA Zach: Thank you.
Conor Fowler: This is like a fitting, a fitting look for you. So e you know, I live to fucking validate if if nothing else, that's what the show is about.
VA Zach: I appreciate the validation. um I've only gone ah get it because at the end of the world, what you need is validation.
Matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Validation.
Conor Fowler: That's fucking right.
VA Zach: ah But I think it was but it was very it's weird to say that there is a significant change of cutting off an inch or two of hair, but it was.
VA Zach: And it's not something that you really are conditioned to talk about as a man, or as a black man, because haircutting is just a normal thing.
Conor Fowler: In terms of the way that people. Yeah.
VA Zach: But I cut my hair, took a few days to sort of figure out how to wear clothes and realize that the world's not ending. just because they have no hair. ah But I made do.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: I went through and I kept it moving.
VA Zach: I think the last year or so, people have said called it a logarithmic growth and I'm inclined to agree.
Conor Fowler: Can you explain that?
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: Can you explain that for us and non eggheads?
VA Zach: Well, I mean, the benefit of having a math degree is being able to say logarithmic groups unironically. it's um
Conor Fowler: Hmm.
VA Zach: So I generally say I took fashion seriously in January 2024, so only 10 months ago. ah I could find that it like the 26th I think was when I joined the discord for
Conor Fowler: You have a day?
Conor Fowler: OK. I'm putting that in my calendar.
VA Zach: ah For male fad, the Discord formerly known as male fashion advice currently mfad at one point affiliated with our male fashion advice on Reddit. I joined at like the end of January, posted a fit. it In hindsight, it was not a great fit, but it was very, very good. A, for its time, and B, because I had so i was someone who just sort of dropped in from outer space.
VA Zach: ah but but made you and my dear It was to set the table, I think it does encapsulate a lot of the things that I typically would wear.
Conor Fowler: yeah yeah got dude and that's true
VA Zach: It was a brown oversized Pendleton wool shirt. a pair of ah I found a pair of Laura Piano chinos, but the inseam was too short.
VA Zach: It was a I have a 32 in team. They're 3028s.
Conor Fowler: okay that's like yeah that's like my size come on and that's the way the pants ought to be you know matt and i are in agreement about this you're a complete couple because why do you get boots if you don't want to show the whole boot off
VA Zach: They're like high waters. um
Matt: Yes, 100%.
VA Zach: you know i
VA Zach: oh My relationship
Matt: If my pants touch my shoes,
VA Zach: I mean, I've had instances where I do own, I was boot averse until over the summer.
Conor Fowler: What does that even mean?
VA Zach: Boot averse meaning, boot averse meaning I didn't like wearing boots.
Conor Fowler: How can you be Buddhaverse?
VA Zach: ah
Conor Fowler: But they're good, they're all, I mean, they're like almost inarguable.
VA Zach: Almost inarguable. And congratulations, I'm the person that likes to argue.
Conor Fowler: That's why we get along so well.
VA Zach: But as fate would have it, this mind you, the boot thing, this is after MFED, this is after fit battle, this is after like some of the more formative fits, I would say. um But I was walking towards a flea market in DC. I found a pair of derby shoes, of old GH Bash shoes from Goodwill. I took it upon myself to dye them.
VA Zach: So they were black and I dyed them a cordovan sort of reddish purple. um That was a fun process.
Conor Fowler: I did the same shit.
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: Not the same shit, but it's I think it's great. Yeah, I think. Because we talked about Derby Saddles on this show, whatever. um Of course, I support them. They're clown.
Conor Fowler: They're close to clown shoes. And I like that. Honk Honk.
VA Zach: Oh, God.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah, right. um
VA Zach: But Team Derby...
Conor Fowler: I don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Carry on. but Blue dying.
VA Zach: Anyways, I'd be honest with you, Derby's two were a shoe that took me as...
Conor Fowler: Derby dying.
VA Zach: Derby's I was comfortable with because I wore Doc Martens for the longest time. And I wore Doc Martens initially on MFA, basically every fit. It's, oh, I'm this cast Doc Martens.
VA Zach: Oh, I'm trying to be like punk Doc Martens. Oh, I'm trying to be doing my best to be Doc Martens.
Conor Fowler: Well, let's do that. It's appropriate.
VA Zach: What's up?
Conor Fowler: and so Well, that's appropriate. there That's a punk rock shoe.
VA Zach: Um, when I say punk, it was sort of a half -assed punk, where it was like, I wore a t -shirt and some 501s, and then Doc Martens.
Conor Fowler: A boot.
VA Zach: And I was like, I'm being punk!
Conor Fowler: Well, that's it. Focus a wide net. A large net. ah Something.
VA Zach: It's so...
Conor Fowler: A big tent, as they say in the Democratic Party.
VA Zach: punk? Oh, lord. So...
Conor Fowler: ah
VA Zach: Punk is a big tent community. I want to be careful because Adidas identifies Punk.
Conor Fowler: Well, this is a safe space to say that. Matt, don't you say anything, okay?
Matt: i what
VA Zach: Thank you so much.
Conor Fowler: Right, Matt. Matt, a famous gatekeeper of the punk community.
Matt: not Not even close, not
Conor Fowler: No, not at all, actually. Like, very much the opposite, so...
VA Zach: ah Well, I think there's a certain image that punk conveys, even though it's big tent, I think people's minds go to the lowest hanging fruit with punk, you know, flannels, torn jeans, errata.
Conor Fowler: pistols.
VA Zach: And I first off had a tendency to want to half -ass these sorts of things, so it I would wear Doc Martens and jeans and t -shirt and say, oh, I'm being punk, sort of, um at first.
VA Zach: But That was when I had only two pairs of shoes. I learned that it would be useful to buy more shoes. So that's when I bought a bunch of loafers, when I bought a bunch of olives.
VA Zach: It's when I bought the derbies that I owned and died because I got bored and figured it would be cool to dye these black shoes purple and see what happens. The dyeing process worked.
Conor Fowler: But that's the punk rock part, dude, dyeing the fucking shoes.
VA Zach: And they worked. And honestly, I didn't
Conor Fowler: And that's. That's what I'm saying. ah yeah
VA Zach: They work. I still wear them. They're in questionable shape because in order to actually dye them, I had to strip a lot of the protective skin off of the leather.
Conor Fowler: And that's even better.
VA Zach: And that does a number to the integrity of the shoe. And these were old shoes. These were glued shoes rather than, you know, you know, so good or well or anything like that.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: Nice, yeah.
VA Zach: And if they were like entry level Alan Edmonds. So we're not talking like me dying a pair of red wings, which would be truly punk or something like that. um
Conor Fowler: ah um it's It's the spirit.
VA Zach: It is a spirit, but life was good with those shoes. And then one day I'm walking in Georgetown and the soul separates from one of them.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: So I do step, step, and then I just feel bare feet against Cobblestone like, oh, That's my foot, that's the sole two steps back. At that point, I see there's a CVS a couple blocks away where I could buy superglue, fix the shoe and go about my merry life, or there's a flea market and I could roll the dice and see if there's maybe a pair of shoes that could fit me that I would just buy and then work it out.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: ah Go to the flea market and with a friend Immediately we go in and one of the organizers at said flea market is saying Oh, hey, we love your fits.
VA Zach: Is it possible for us to like fill the guys for Instagram story? I'm holding the soul of the shoe in my hand as they are saying this It's It's punk
Conor Fowler: That's, I'm sorry, you know what I'm gonna say. Yeah.
Matt: It is fun.
VA Zach: And I'm like, you know, oh sure, I just need to set down this. I'm holding the shoe sole with my hand so that they can all see there. Just set it down. They fill me. I'm trying to stand with similar gait, despite the fact that my shoes, my feet are now on two different levels.
VA Zach: um But it gets filmed. It's a good fit. I walk around. Somehow, some way, like Cinderella, I find a pair of harness boots that fit. They're vintage Levi's caramel brown harness boots. They fit me. They gave me a break in pricing. I walked out. it And the fate is the best part is, the clothes that I was wearing at the time,
VA Zach: um It was just a t -shirt, a pair of giant chinos that I got from John Wijons.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, sure.
VA Zach: You may know him as. um And then a bunch of like gold jewelry.
Conor Fowler: Sure.
VA Zach: So I switched the shoes and it was still a serviceable fit.
Matt: Nice.
VA Zach: So I'm like, ew, this is what I wore today. Hey.
Matt: That sounds like a great fit. And as someone that sells vintage and nothing is more fun than watching someone walk out with the thing they buy like on their body.
Conor Fowler: The slipper, right? The glass slipper, like that's the.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah, it's great. It's great.
Conor Fowler: aa
Matt: It's it's always a really fun, high experience.
VA Zach: The funny part was I went home and I was like spiraling just because I still had a broken shoe to contend with and also these random boots that were not in my wardrobe plan.
VA Zach: um I had an idea of what I wanted my wardrobe to look like, boots were not on it, but I figured
Matt: But now you're seeing poop.
Conor Fowler: Now, exactly.
VA Zach: Now I'm team boot.
Conor Fowler: ProBoot. the food yeah oh yeah you use using like rit are you using like feeblings fiblings or using okay
VA Zach: And I was going to them, in fact. I was going to try and dye them black. just ah
VA Zach: Well, I would have used shoe polish.
Matt: yeah yeah
VA Zach: You use enough shoe polish and it just looks black and then you put a sealant on top of it and it holds the color for a little bit until you apply more. Black dye, and then that's how you maintain the black color.
VA Zach: ah It's a dirty, it's, as you would say, punk.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, interesting, yeah.
VA Zach: ah
Conor Fowler: you get You can get like leather dye, I mean.
VA Zach: Yeah, ah leather dye is how I dyed the derby shoes to cordovan red slash purple. So leather dye works, it's just people are cheap.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: And like a more efficient solution and the efficient solution is just slathering on layers and layers of shoe polish and then just saying, what about it?
Conor Fowler: Minor little swatchy, yeah.
Matt: Yeah.
Conor Fowler: and then yeah well it's like then can you like not touch your pants with your shoes at all like you can't cross your you can't cross your legs at all because you're like smearing shoe polish all over your pants I don't know
VA Zach: ah Well, that can't cross.
VA Zach: So that's the worry. And there was a little bit of that with the one pair of shoes that I dyed. So sometimes I looked at my jeans like, oh, why is there like a purple streak on the L more than what the pair of shoes.
Conor Fowler: You see my suede boots, right? the I dyed these like bone suede boots purple.
VA Zach: What's up?
VA Zach: what Why? Why?
Conor Fowler: And they had, because they were filthy, they look like shit. ah I dyed them purple and then I guess I saw these yellow like rock gut laces and I was like, I have to do that.
Conor Fowler: So I'm going to wear them probably tomorrow for the fifth game for LDP.
VA Zach: Yes!
VA Zach: When you say the yellow laser, are you talking like, Danner style?
Conor Fowler: No, they're like, they're leather, they're leather.
VA Zach: Doc style? Oh wow.
Conor Fowler: They're yellow leather, they're rock, I believe. Yeah, they're tight.
VA Zach: That is insane and I fully support you.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah. And I haven't seen, it people in the people in the new scene haven't seen them. People who are actually looking at my clothing have not seen them because I haven't wore them in a while.
Conor Fowler: So it's gonna be, it's gonna be amazing. I don't know what I'm gonna wear.
VA Zach: I always like i like that element of surprise when it comes to clothing. um I think part of the sort of crazy trajectory of growth was being able to not only surprise other people, it surprised myself in what I was able to wear.
VA Zach: um Part of it comes from just doing dumb stuff.
Conor Fowler: Sure. Nailedation.
VA Zach: like I had a pair of striped pants and I figured, well, What if I just wore it as a scarf or something and I put it on and it turned out to be just this funny fit? um Or, you know, what if I wore shorts with a suit and it turned out to be a crazy good fit or baggies with a placer?
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: it's It's real, though. I mean, all of that shit is real. And it's amazing because Darren finds pictures of people doing it like in the 60s. And it's like, yeah, time is a flat circle.
Conor Fowler: Whatever. However you want to say it.
VA Zach: so It's the funniest thing. um A lot of the things that people consider to be sort of edgy or on the margins or unexpected, it's stuff that has been done, but it's stuff that, ah for whatever reason, ah people just sort of don't feel like doing.
VA Zach: And I think it's largely because whatever expectations people have of clothes, of themselves, of society,
Conor Fowler: Yeah, yeah.
VA Zach: it sort of limits what they're able what they're willing to put on. um I know there's a reckoning about wide -fit pants still that i I, for one, don't understand.
VA Zach: um I lived through the 2010s.
Conor Fowler: What?
VA Zach: I lived through ah the joy of slimfit. I lived through trying to fit in the Levi's 510s and 511s.
Matt: oh The worst.
VA Zach: The worst!
Matt: The worst.
Conor Fowler: I just it i was always too fat for that. Like it was not in the, yeah, it was not in the thing and like the girl jeans thing, I could never do this.
VA Zach: I was also too fat, same.
Matt: i mean
Conor Fowler: I just don't get it. And now I'm too fat for all my clothes anyway. So it's C again, circular. It is what it is.
VA Zach: Well, the gene the gene thing was weird because during the mid -2010s, the golden age of MFA, if you will, I was significantly overweight.
Conor Fowler: ah
VA Zach: I was maybe 250. So things like skinny jeans were really not within my wheelhouse. And things like slim -fitter tapered chinos or such, they kind of look ridiculous if you are significantly overweight like that.
VA Zach: um Fast forward to now, significantly smaller, I could fit in that stuff, but then it's like, well, you know, it sucked to wear that.
VA Zach: It sucked, my calves sucked, my nuts were bunching.
Matt: Yeah.
VA Zach: um There's a whole host of like anatomical reasons why this is actually not great. And to boot, it doesn't really look that cool either, so why would I subject myself to that still?
Matt: Yeah, the mainstream is keeping this is keeping the skinny shit on deck.
Conor Fowler: Roger that.
Matt: That's the Macy's and like normal look now.
Conor Fowler: What I think it's funny.
Matt: And it didn't really look good in the first place.
Conor Fowler: vi Well, it's a shorthand way for people to distinguish like generations.
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Right. Like, I don't know.
Matt: I mean, I mean, well, like, you know, the people like Derek Guy, like, this is the reason why he came to Providence on Twitter is like, you know,
Conor Fowler: I just it's an interesting signifier. Like, I had never worn skinny jeans. I don't want to wear them. I don't wanna wear new jeans though, cause I'm short.
Matt: like throwing shit at people like Matt Gaetz that wear the skinniest of pants.
VA Zach: Thank you.
Matt: And it's like, it's so mainstream at this point.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: And I think it's interesting because...
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Doing like cowboy, fake cowboy shit with with skinny jeans on.
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
VA Zach: And it's interesting because I always wondered, well, what's the look of the... there is a distinct There's a distinct look of the decade for the 70s. There's a distinct look of the decade for the 80s, for the 90s, for the 2000s even, for the 2010s.
VA Zach: it's a little more nebulous because some people wore skinny jeans and some people wore a shitload of Supreme.
Matt: Yeah, right.
VA Zach: ah
VA Zach: And then you fast forward to now there not there really isn't a distinguishing look. And I think that affects men's wear discourse, speak that affects discourse because no one really has an idea of how to dress. There's this sort of weird old money situation going on lately, though I think it's on its last legs, thankfully.
VA Zach: um It's a silly trend.
Conor Fowler: so Yeah, like the succession thing.
VA Zach: It's problematic.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, fucking stupid.
VA Zach: but its Ultimately, it's inauthentic. um Not to dunk on Reddit or and MFA or or other discords that I frequent, ah but the topic of How do I dress like the old money style or how can i or what brands do I wear to fit in old money?
Conor Fowler: Yeah, if you have to ask, then you are not. Yeah, get out of here.
VA Zach: it's yeah it's What about the lifestyle is appealing?
Matt: but Right.
VA Zach: because if you're
Conor Fowler: I wanna wear a $5 ,000 baseball hat, but a fake version of that so that I, my mom, right. It's like, what is even the point of any of it?
VA Zach: and i And I get it. I think in a lot of ways, the aesthetic is really a shorthand for um I want to look as if I'm in some sort of position of power or some sort of position of privilege.
Matt: Right.
VA Zach: But I can't do that through the way that I currently dress. So maybe if I dress this other way, that i then I could maybe get that. And you know like to an extent, it's not wrong.
VA Zach: but But it's limiting because it's really dressing for others and it's dressing for others based on false pretense.
Conor Fowler: It works.
Conor Fowler: Truly.
VA Zach: Once people sort of befriend you or acknowledge your existence, you're sort of stuck in a corner where you kind of have to keep dressing like this. And if it's a style that you don't actually like or that doesn't suit you, then you're going to be miserable dressing like this all the time.
VA Zach: and probably spend a bunch of money in the process.
Matt: hundred 100%. 100%. Well, dude, Zach, it's been a ah pleasure to have you on and to chat with you. And yeah, I feel like all of our episodes recently, like there's so much more to cover with our guests.
Conor Fowler: for sure.
Matt: So we'll have you back on at some point.
VA Zach: Of course, I think...
Matt: Yeah, it's been hella fun.
VA Zach: You know, I... didn't really expect a lot. Again, I've listened to the podcast. and I mean, I'm a fan.
Matt: but We're big fans of not expecting a lot.
VA Zach: But this is great.
Matt: Yeah, man. like yeah But you know it is fun to just like get a few people together that are into the same or similar stuff and just chat.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, low expectations are the way of the world.
Conor Fowler: Yeah.
Matt: That's what we're all about.
VA Zach: and Sometimes you just need that sort of affirmation that maybe you're not completely off base with your thinking.
Matt: 100%.
VA Zach: um And I think especially very recently, given certain recent real life events, um that's sort of true in a lot of sentences where you just sort of need a validation that you're not alone, that your thoughts are valid, and that someone somewhere appreciates them.
VA Zach: So I appreciate it.
Matt: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Conor Fowler: Wow, Zach, did you write that down?
Matt: Yeah, that's that's a good ah good little nugget from this ah this episode.
VA Zach: Clip that and nothing else.
Conor Fowler: Yeah. Exactly. That's what we're using. We're going to have a successful reel. I can feel it. And Zach, you neglected to mention something of import, I think. I'm not asking you to say what anything, but obviously I'm asking you to talk about your other thing.
Conor Fowler: to
VA Zach: ah um So the thing that happened five months ago or the thing that happened five hours ago? right
Conor Fowler: I guess it happened five hours ago.
VA Zach: Oh!
Conor Fowler: I'm not keeping track.
VA Zach: So, i I swear, hand to God, I did not time this with this ah recording in mind.
Conor Fowler: You did.
VA Zach: I just...
Conor Fowler: I know you did.
VA Zach: No! No, I do not have... I do not have Illintet, I do not have a press manager.
Conor Fowler: What did I say at the beginning? What did I say at the beginning? ah Does Gen Z report? I can't believe it.
VA Zach: The Gen Z Report.
Conor Fowler: You could call it the Gen Z report.
VA Zach: But I do...
Conor Fowler: so
VA Zach: I have a sub -stack that I recently restarted. So the very first thing that I put on it was several months ago, I wrote a long form article or long form series of essays about participating in the MFA Discord fit battle over the spring.
VA Zach: um Nerds spoilers for how I did, but it's a pretty long series if that if it means anything to you.
Conor Fowler: Which is amazing, by the way, is so good. Yeah.
Conor Fowler: It's a fucking gargantuan amount of work, like love -based work. So like, check it out. Great writer. Questionable person.
Conor Fowler: Good. ah Right?
VA Zach: You know, I'll take it!
Conor Fowler: We don't know. We don't know.
VA Zach: right
Conor Fowler: We don't know. We don't know. You seem to be very close with Mr. Bezos.
VA Zach: You know, I would like to be close to Mr.
Conor Fowler: Haha.
VA Zach: Bezos' car when I get hit by it, and so I can see his millions.
Conor Fowler: Yeah, dude. You can't tell, you can't tell them about the plan, you can't tell them about the plan because then they don't know about it.
VA Zach: I mean, is it pre -meditated if I get hit by a car?
Conor Fowler: but that it
Matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: I think it's premeditated if you mention it in a video recording of you saying it.
Matt: Or audio, as the case may be.
VA Zach: i i i' not I would like to go on record as saying I'm not chasing Jeff Bezos or anyone associated with him or any vehicles associated with him in any way, shape, or form.
Conor Fowler: Or audio, right.
Matt: There we go. That's their out right there.
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: And we don't acknowledge the Bezos guy either.
Matt: Anyway.
Conor Fowler: Good night.
VA Zach: i i But do write about sort of some of the things that I get into on Instagram and on Discord that are maybe better suited for a longer form format.
Matt: ah
VA Zach: um A lot of my efforts in DIY, some of my finds and observations when thrifting things or research on vintage pieces that I find and own, um and some commentary on just the state of clothing in general.
VA Zach: um I think for now, it's going to be a lot of me backfilling old content that I wrote elsewhere. ah But with time, I'll just sort of have a fairly regular, hopefully a regular stream of nice long form content to just sit and read.
Matt: Let's...
VA Zach: ah You know, if you're between sets at the gym or if you're between Pomodoro,
Conor Fowler: Or if you're a whiner like me who wishes people would fucking write and really the person who should be writing is me!
VA Zach: Will you have a wonderful platform as it is, a wonderful podcast, a wonderful Instagram feed?
Conor Fowler: Right?
Conor Fowler: yeah
Conor Fowler: Oh, thank you so much!
VA Zach: I think you're quite welcome.
Conor Fowler: Thank you so much!
VA Zach: I think with content creation, first off, I think on a philosophical sense, ah man generally sort of wants to create, I think is the common saying, and whether that's
Conor Fowler: nice Nice. That's a nice innuendo.
VA Zach: Hey.
Conor Fowler: so
VA Zach: um We live in the country where that might be more of an and more of an an edict, but we'll see.
Conor Fowler: Wait, wait, wait! We don't talk about dick on this program. Not like that anyway.
VA Zach: An e -vagina.
Conor Fowler: You like that? You like that? You like that? You like that? That's a good one.
VA Zach: An e -Richard. Yes.
Conor Fowler: You're right. right
VA Zach: um
Conor Fowler: ah
VA Zach: But creation, I think creation is important, and the most important the best creative vessel that someone can create is something that's meaningful to them.
Conor Fowler: and Oops!
VA Zach: And this podcast is clearly meaningful to you. It's something that you're clearly good at. If you choose to write, I think you would be great at it.
Conor Fowler: My vessel!
VA Zach: um you know I don't want you to like pull up Picasso, do too many things, and then lose your mind.
Conor Fowler: oh
VA Zach: Or Kanye West. and
Conor Fowler: oh
VA Zach: or Kanye West and do too many things and you know um lose your marvels that way.
Conor Fowler: Start it's right start prophesizing about whatever he talks about all the time.
VA Zach: Exactly.
Conor Fowler: I Think ah Yeah, all right That would be that would be very funny I think yeah, dude you're coming back and
VA Zach: That man.
Matt: they We have another entire episode about Kanye.
VA Zach: That man. I think there's a whole separate conversation about Kanye West.
Matt: we We'll come back and have an all Kanye part two. ah We can.
Conor Fowler: And then we get to the roast of Kanye.
VA Zach: The verse of Kanye, oh my god.
Conor Fowler: Right.
Matt: All right, Zach.
Conor Fowler: All right. Good night, everyone.
Matt: Nope.
Conor Fowler: Oh, sorry. Sorry.
Matt: but
Conor Fowler: No, it's your show. It's your part of the show. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt: Before we go, please shout out ah both your substack and your Instagram we account, just so people can follow you, because I think they're going to love this.
Conor Fowler: Sorry.
VA Zach: Well, thank you. i and I forgot about the possibility of self -permission. So, my Instagram and my substack handle is ziometer, that's Z for zebra, E for eagle, O for owl, and then meter, like the unit of measure.
VA Zach: um That's on Instagram, that's on substack, that's on Discord.
Matt: The,
VA Zach: Any social media It's going to be that. If you cannot find me on that name there, then I do not exist, or I do not want you to find me there.
Matt: nice.
Conor Fowler: I've been saying, Zeometer.
Matt: they
VA Zach: ah It's very interesting because I never really figured out.
Conor Fowler: Is this a Zeometer an instrument?
VA Zach: So, geometer is based on the learning software geometer sketchpad. ah
Conor Fowler: Oh god, right.
VA Zach: you affili No affiliation to McGraw -Hill, but it's a math learning tool that I used throughout school.
Conor Fowler: mentioneds
Conor Fowler: a
VA Zach: It kind of imprinted on me. And when I was figuring out, oh, what kind of cool handle could I use that wasn't already taken by 8 million other people, that was the first one that came up and I just sort of stuck with it.
Matt: Solid.
VA Zach: no
Conor Fowler: true yeah i mean with this smith thing like yeah but but yeah it is truly a blessing and a curse
VA Zach: Oh.
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
VA Zach: My ah SEO is abysmal, for better or for worse. um So you know if I ran for office and people were trying not...
Matt: Yes, yes, it is.
VA Zach: like and i The reason I have a Facebook still, which that is not the username, by the way, for that, please do not look for me on Facebook. um The reason I have a Facebook is so that I have an easily searchable social media presence to show that I am alive because In my experience, both as someone who hired people and also who looked for a job, it's always weird when there's nothing ah about a person.
Matt: Right.
VA Zach: And as much as I enjoy posting the content that I post on Instagram or on Discord, um it's it can lead to an insertion conversation when I'm talking about things like SQL, and they're like, hey, so what do you have?
VA Zach: And you talk a lot about this What's an OCBD? but
Conor Fowler: ah That's gotta, that's gotta be the title we of the episode.
VA Zach: but
VA Zach: ah
Conor Fowler: Jesus Christ.
VA Zach: yeah oh Who's JPress? What's that about? Is he a rapper? and of like ah but That's a good question.
Conor Fowler: Right. yeah
VA Zach: Anyway, it ah but it's just a lot easier to separate at least that component of myself for professional reasons, but everything else, Zeometer, and the only reason I know it's pronounced like that is because I got referenced in one of the Style and Direction podcasts, and it was pronounced Zeometer, and I was like, oh, but that's not right.
Matt: Right.
Conor Fowler: I will.
VA Zach: And so I was like, oh, it's actually, it's pronounced the opposite of how you did it, but thanks for the shot at Ethan, you're great.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah.
VA Zach: um
Matt: It all works out.
VA Zach: fight But yes, you can find me on Instagram and on Substack at ziometer, Z -E -O -M -E -T -E -R.
Matt: Hell yes. Well, I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
Conor Fowler: And I'm Connor Flower at Connor Flower.
Matt: And if you would like to, send us questions, comments, concerns, apocalypsestuds at gmail .com or at apocalypsestuds on Instagram. And we will see you next week.
Conor Fowler: Sure. Goodbye.
VA Zach: Thank you.
