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Everyday Silliness with Ethan M. Wong
186 Plays1 month ago
Back for seconds, Host of @styleanddirection, the outrageously well dressed and never stressed @ethanmwong the ‘M’ stands for Menswear. We cover some of our Old Chestnuts, Describe a Vibe Shift in Social Media, talk Aloha Shirts, The Most Famous White Hawaiian, Conor’s Bootleg Scarface thongs, Las Vegas, Bringing a Loafer to a Pool Party, Karaoke Standards, Cafes, IG Dumps, Shadowbans, Infomercials, and yet more….
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Transcript
Welcome and Introduction
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello and good afternoon. Welcome to Apocalypse Duds. We have here in studio, live-ish, someone... ducifye's definition, you know. I don't know how so i don't know true exactly that is, but he's pretty cool and and very innovative.
Ethan's Return and Personal Reflections
00:00:23
Speaker
Anyway, Ethan, menswearwong, we have with us in the Apocalypse Duds studios today again for part two.
00:00:32
Speaker
Welcome back, Ethan. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. like yeah i forget i I did forget, and now it'll forever be me etched in my brain that the M stands for men's wear. I told yo yeah i't forget that that was canonized in my first appearance on here. I think it's pretty fitting. It could be like Michael, and now it's suck.
00:00:56
Speaker
like my middle name, which is Michael. And basically every man or boy has the middle name Michael from the Catholic tradition anyway. But that's neither here nor there. So we wanted to kind of get into the stuff that has happened both in your life and our life in everyone's lives since you have been on. ah You went to Hawaii.
00:01:21
Speaker
ah Yes, yes, I was there. I was with my with my family, with my mom and my grandparents, my brother and aunt. ah Weird order for that, but that's ah how it came in my head. ah But yeah, that was that was really great. i You know, I haven't had a family vacation in that way. you know it's ah you know It still requires airplane travel, ah but not definitely not as extensive as as Italy, as some people might remember. I went to Italy last year for my mom's wedding. That was a whole ah the whole thing. Again, all great, but you know you know balancing family stuff with the wedding, and then also like, oh, I still want to maybe, I want to go check out stores. I want to go to like churches, museums. so Right, right.
Travel Experiences and Cultural Insights
00:02:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:02
Speaker
also like yeah you're Uh, if I'm remembering correctly, you're around LA, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How the fuck long does it take to fly, uh, to Italy from there? Just curious. Um, I think it was, oh, how do I not remember this? It has to be like 11 or 12 hours. Okay. Okay. That's not, yeah, that's, ah that's about what it was from, uh, from New York city too. So I guess it's kind of like.
00:02:32
Speaker
I don't know, flying far over the Vietnam take for me and going to Italy, I was just like, holy shit, this takes four forever. But I guess you you went through the same thing. I thought maybe it would have been farther though. we're not only You know what? You're right. and I remember it being.
00:02:52
Speaker
I really do remember it being like a 12 or 11 or 12 hours, but I don't remember it being like 18 hours. You know what I mean? like i saw if You're fine to Australia. Yeah, exactly. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like it took about like five hours to get to Hawaii. So, you know, it's kind of I guess that's good there because I have friends who go to Hawaii from New York and they're like, yeah, it's like a 10 or 11 hour flight because you got to go you know through the US and then you go and Yeah, well, the continental US and then you go to Hawaii. So right, right. Yeah, yeah I guess we win in that way. Yeah, a culture winning, which is about half again as far from Yeah. Yeah. So it's really, it's really out there. I guess like, I'm not trying to quiz you about Hawaii. But I'm like, there's interesting stuff happening in that place, I guess.
00:03:47
Speaker
In terms of the people who live there ah and the way that they, I guess, I guess are like governed, you know, it's like the United States made that a territory and it doesn't seem like there has really been very much ah in the way of, I don't know, home rule, any so anything of the sort, right? They are absorbed into the American country.
00:04:12
Speaker
No, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's ah it's it it really is kind of unsettling when you go there and you see like artifacts on display kind of a thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. um Like indigenous artifacts? Well, yeah, you know, like like like the ruling family, you know, like you'll see like different hotels will have that and, you know, the hope. Yeah, i know maybe I should have looked into it more, but like, you know, the hope is that these hotels presumably have some kind of connection. They probably do not. That's probably just a very gratuitous way of thinking about it. um What's crazy, though, is that one of like the biggest tourist attractions is the Dole Plantation, which doesn't exist specifically there anymore. It's like more of just like ah a historical like, you know, kind of like a
00:04:56
Speaker
it feels like a local museum right like it's kind of like it's like this used to be the place with a dull plantation there's like you can get food which is not all you don't you're not just eating pineapples obviously they have like regular you know they make many fruits hawaiian food and american food over there they have dull whip and they have like they have like a small plantation you can like take a train ride through it's like it's like not very far but no rides through you know and so but it's interesting because it's like this is One of the primary reasons for statehood is because the Dole, you know, John Dole, whatever the guy's name was, you know, being like an American businessman, that's right made so much money over there. And he's like, well, the US government wants that. So we're going to take this whole thing, you know, so. Straight up. Kind of weird. war Exactly.
00:05:42
Speaker
I don't know. You can look on Wikipedia. There's like Dole Dole Revolt Wikipedia. There's all kinds of stuff. And they really just. Yeah. I think.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah, I guess that it's it's hard not to think of like the indigenous continental Americans who are. Oh, yeah. Held up as like ah great, like strong protectors of nature and like all that kind of stuff.
00:06:11
Speaker
No help, zero help, nothing at all. Go, go elsewhere. You're right. Yeah, yeah. ah I know that you're ah you know a pretty big fan of like 40s and 50s clothing. So yeah you know I'm sure that ah you've got a really rad like old aloha shirt or something in your wardrobe.
00:06:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, at least one. Is there any of that kind of thing like, you know, like over there? These days? Oh, no, we lost Matt. Oh, he's back. I'm back. I'm back. Yeah. I don't know why I cut out. Is there anything, you know, resembling that type of garments still available like widely for purchase? That's that's a great question. I mean, I was even surprised when I went over there. So one of the big things that I've always enjoyed um from Hawaii was the brand 2 Palms, which I think I found on Style Forum years ago. This is like 2015, like when I was kind of trying to find brands that exist today that kind of give that feeling. And I found them like, you know, like someone had linked them, with someone i talked about them. I'm sure like put this on
00:07:27
Speaker
um I had talked about them, but they are 100% rayon and made in Hawaii. And so I, i you know, I bought some, you know, on on online long time ago, they now fit MJ because my body does not look like that anymore. um At the ah at the local marijuana mall, they have a two pump store. And I was like, so surprised I walk in there.
00:07:49
Speaker
And the great thing about them is that, yeah, they have some of the ones that look a little bit more like nineties and two thousands, but a lot of their stuff is still, or they have stuff, a large selection of a hundred percent rayon and the prints look actually vintage, which is really great. So I bought, oh that's cool. Yeah. I bought, I bought a couple there and again, it's like in a regular ass mall that has like a Nordstrom and a crazy shirts and a Barnes and Noble. right Um, so there was that. And then apparently.
00:08:13
Speaker
on, um, it's like the main road that they have that's kind of like, like Hollywood Boulevard or like the strip or like all the hotels are Avanti is over there. And Avanti I've heard of that from other vintage, uh, vintage heads. And because they have a vintage collection, which is the prints all look very, very forties, fifties and sixties, but the callers themselves are modeled after like L late forties or like early fifties.
00:08:39
Speaker
Um, camp collar and they have regular ones too, which is like, if the more, like the short kind, it looks more like sixties or I guess nineties or two thousands, but they have a vintage one. And then so like, I'm just like walking around. I'm like, Oh shit, Avanti. I've heard, it I have an old Avanti in my closet. And then I was like, Oh man, I got to buy one of these. And I actually bought one in a hundred percent silk, so not Rayon. And I do hand wash that and it's, it's great. I mean, I've done it once, obviously I haven't. An aloha shirt. It's not an everyday thing, despite being in California.
00:09:07
Speaker
This might be in California. i you know It's not but that you can't wear it. It's just that I have other things I want to wear. Totally. That's cool that they're still like keeping it real with that shit, though. Yeah. I mean, I will say people aren't like wearing them.
00:09:21
Speaker
but There has to be a factor. I mean, at least for Avanti and Tupoms, they're made here. I don't know where the factor is. I remember I briefly talked to, this is a long time ago, for the Tupoms in my emails. because like they They saw that I like wrote wrote about it, and I like wore them ah but a lot with like vintage and modern stuff, and they were like, oh, thanks. And what's funny is that Jason Sandigon, I think, went to the ah but to the factory.
00:09:44
Speaker
of Mad King George. Yeah, he he got two palms. And then, ah you know, this is like, you know, like a couple of years ago and he went to Hawaii, I think either Oahu or maybe it was Maui or something. And he was able to to tour either one of the big stories there or the actual like one of the factory like workshops that they had. And he said that that was really cool. And I wish I was able to to do that. But, you know, maybe maybe on the return, we're going to add that to the bucket list.
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, i'm I'm glad again. I'm glad that stuff
Aloha Shirts: Fashion and Culture
00:10:12
Speaker
still there. I did. I did hear about a vintage store that sold vintage Alohas and they have everything from like the 30s to like 90s, you know, stuff with like Elvis is on them and all these different collaborations. However, I looked at their Instagram and all of the ones that I thought were good were true vintage and they were like five hundred dollars, which is typically if if it's in good condition or wearable condition, that's how much vintage you know, 30s to 50s alohas really are. The raisins in particular, like, yes, you know, are are just through the roof for good reason. They're, they're incredible. Yeah. exactly Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:50
Speaker
I mean, like I went to an Aloha ah ah loha print exhibit at the um Honolulu Museum. Oh, sure. Yeah, the little central thing. It's really great. I highly recommend it. um it's you know It's small. ah It's in the like the metropolitan area, but it has a little bit of everything because it's like one of the major museums in in in ah and Honolulu, I guess. And so ah but they had Aloha print exhibit and that was also really cool. They didn't have too many, but seeing like true vintage 40s, 50s ones, there's a couple of stuff from like the 70s and like in the 2000 some designer, you know, did like an aloha suit or whatever. So that was really cool ah to see, you know, it's still very important, um you know, to to the Hawaiian people. And, you know, you can all as often as often the designer ones, there's the ones that I have, like the more vintage ones, and there's the ones you can get at like any drugstore. So it's a little bit of like, you know, it's kind of like how a suit is, you know what I mean? Like, so there's different than levels of it. um But you know, down there,
00:11:47
Speaker
people are wearing variations of the aloha shirt. It's like ah part of like the waiter uniform. you know And not not to say like that that's the only thing Hawaiian people wear, but like I remember like i had like my uncle was is is Hawaiian and he's like, yeah, like it's our dress shirt. like You wear that to like you know to Maybe I don't know about every office, but like it's like it's like your polo shirt You know I mean like you it's a nice shirt you wear it with slacks you can't wear it with shorts or whatever I guess it's kind of similar the cowboy boots being like both like Casual and rugged and being like a dress shoe in like certain states, you know, so I feel like I think that that's really really cool
00:12:22
Speaker
um and And yeah, so i'm I'm glad, you know, seeing some of that. And some people, you you can really tell because like there's like the good ones and you see like the ones that the to the tourists have. And I hope that the way I wore mine was a bit nicer. um Of course, no one's wearing like fucking loafers over there. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, at least like those wearing old and loafers is what I'm saying. ah People give me so much shit for wearing loafers on the beach. What else am I supposed to wear? I've said this on this program before.
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah, I guess fishermen sandals. It's kind of like the goat, like the new goat. But it's like those are recent innovation. But that's true. That's true. No, same here. I this is so off topic. I'm just remembering this right now. I remember I went to my aunt gra who graduated, I think for like a master's in nursing or something like that at Las Vegas University. And so that was like, oh, I guess family Vegas trip. And, you know, we're not gamblers or partiers. We just went there for like the food and I guess shopping, I guess.
00:13:16
Speaker
But I and and I was like, oh, you know, it's Vegas. I'm gonna wear like a cotton suit and a polo shirt, you know, prop my collar. This is like 2018. What I neglected was bringing sandals for the pool. And so I did have to wear ah penny loafers to the pool because it's literally all I had. I mean, I was just gonna, you know, we were all driving up there like I'm not gonna bring I don't want to bring too much stuff. I'm like, okay, let's wear one pair of shoes.
00:13:42
Speaker
You know, I don't see what the issue is. It's a slippery thing. If it had laces, it would be problematic. It would be too involved. Exactly. I see that thing. I think I did bring sneakers. I'm like, well, I know I'm smart enough not to bring sneakers to the pool because they will. Who's going to wear it? Who wants to lace up and, you know, and do all of that when your feet are wet? At the very least, a loafer, you know, throw it. I guess you would throw in like a newspaper or paper towel because I don't I didn't bring the shoe, the shoe horns with me.
00:14:10
Speaker
But yeah, you know, like that's so funny. Yes, I'm pro. Well, within reason, I wear I wear fisherman's idols to the beach. Now that I have them, I will wear that instead of a loafer. At least I'm having a little bit more airflow. You know what I mean? I think I've had one pair of flip flops in my entire life, my like conscious life anyway. Oh, yeah. And it's senior week in Ocean City, Maryland, which is really A wild place. I purchased these flip flops that had Al Pacino on them and they say Scarface. This was not sanctioned gear, but I thought it was funny enough. Yeah, I don't know what happened to them, but they're out there somewhere, I'm sure.
00:14:57
Speaker
That is so funny. And people gave me shit about those too. I get scarface on flip-flops. Yeah, right? It's like immortalized on like a piece of foam. Not just scarface, bootleg scarface. That's true. That's right. Yeah. I mean, when you see something like that, because it sort of goes back to the earlier discussion, right? Like there's a level of craft.
00:15:22
Speaker
to some stuff that is obvious, right? Could you have a could you have a pair of Scarface license, Scarface flip-flops, slides even? I don't know. that is that that's That's true. I feel like but yeah it's ah it's a sliding scale of of of taste, maybe? I don't know. Wow. Wow. I try. So I have a joke for you.
00:15:48
Speaker
Okay. Let's hear it. Okay. So what would you call your program if it was a conservative talk show? Oh, oh my God. Okay. how What?
00:16:01
Speaker
what would it What would it be? Denial and projection. ha ah There you go. See, you perfect. type to You know, there are others, but I don't think we're going to get into them just yet. Anyway, okay I want to ask you, there's one man more than any.
00:16:20
Speaker
who makes me think Hawaii, and that's Dog the Bounty Hunter. ah Did you see Dog? Did you... I don't know. I mean, do they have that playing on the... Is there a Dog the Bounty Hunter museum somewhere? That's true. Absolutely. If I didn't know that, I feel like I would have totally gone and made time to go see that if that existed.
00:16:46
Speaker
Yeah, Dwayne Chapman. I forgot that's his real name. Oh my god. Oh yeah, so did I. Well, because he has that like hokey kind of, it's like 12 step based intervention attitude, which I just find bizarre.
00:17:04
Speaker
And I mean, they the whole the whole aesthetic is another matter. But what I remember from that show, basically, yeah is that Hawaii is a place with crushing poverty. And so there exists a criminal, you know, ah element. And I just think like. What the fuck? I mean, there there.
00:17:31
Speaker
I assume we're not tons of jobs for like people who are native to Hawaii. like What's the, I don't know, want to work in tourism? if And if tourism is like 98% of the economy, then what do you do?
00:17:49
Speaker
I mean, there's also the fact too, that a lot of like immigrants to Hawaii are also in the tourism industry, right? Like there's so many Filipino people who work at these hotels. to the bottom um You know, and so yeah, I mean, I, it's sad to say, it or it seems like, yeah, as I'm reflecting on this now, it's like, at least in Oahu and these, you know, these major places, like that's probably what drives up, so it drives so much of the commerce there and and the jobs, you know. um Yeah, it seems unfortunate. I had the same experience, you know, talking to someone who was in Venice, I think like a tour guide in Venice. And he was like, yeah, I mean, you know, he doesn't live obviously in Venice. He lives like on the mainland part of it. Some of the other, you know, no no really tour guides live like right there. um And most people
00:18:37
Speaker
have either moved away, so some of the houses are vacant and in Venice, which makes it even creepier at nighttime. Jesus, yeah. But yeah, i mean it's it's kind of similar. you know and like they like like ah They keep saying like during COVID, like it was so like it was like empty like over there. you know And plus, you know Italy has a lot of old people as well, so it's kind of even scarier too. and Well, and these are areas of great natural beauty, right? And it is like yeah the total tragedy of the commons. It's like the more people that go there,
00:19:05
Speaker
I guess sort of the more poverty strict in the area is bizarrely. I don't know. I just think like what a complicated world.
Marco's Style and Vintage Menswear
00:19:18
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. We want to talk about Marco. Oh, yeah. Marco dot pants. Yeah, because I think because I feel like you guys have hung out before. You know better than me, I'm sure.
00:19:30
Speaker
but What a cool guy. What a cool cat. You know, like, yeah, yeah. No, mar Marco. i Yeah, he's so great. I mean, I knew him before he started doing that. We're like right when he started picking that up. I mean, Marco have been friends for I mean, online friends since like 2015 or 2016 or so, um because, you know, he's but he's been posting on ah on Reddit and so did I. And so i you know, we're both Filipino, we both have this kind of like kindred spirit of like being into, you know, ideas of classic and vintage menswear. When I think about Marco, and and when I interviewed him, I kind of mentioned this where like he, when you really look at it, like nothing he's wearing is is is that crazy. There are crazy stuff. And if you're a trad guy, obviously, but like, for example, his like capital double writer made of like fleece, like that's that's crazy for sure. But like, that's not like, it's not like something that that
00:20:23
Speaker
That's like totally reinventing the concept of the wheel. It's like if you did a wheel you know in ah in a material that wasn't stone or wood or something, you know? And I think that that's what that's that's what me and Marco kind of like got like kindred spirit on. Like for me, I kind of went more into like the actual tradition and and classical menswear. And he was like, oh, I'm going to do like, you know, he he wears like vintage stuff. He mixes that into like secondhand designer stuff that he has. Like, obviously, that's why he loves like engineered garments and capital, which are two brands that kind of riff on the idea of like American or like menswear, utilitarian milserp workwear. But like, and you know, they're going to do it in like, you know, pants and waxed cotton or they're going to do a, you know, a a like, or yeah, like a fleece, a fleece double writer. And
00:21:07
Speaker
I've always admired that about Marco and the way he can just wear stuff out again, similar to me. Like, you know, we're, we're both relatively like corporate ish guys who both work in like marketing or advertising and in ah in a sense. And so, but he wears that stuff, you know, um, he might get a little bit more of a pass because he is like, I think he's like data science or something like that. So like, you don't, you're not client facing whereas I kind of am, but I guess it works out. Um, where,
00:21:34
Speaker
do you this i yeah like Do you go to client meetings? like Is that your like daily thing? You're going to talk to people all the day? Because I don't know. i mean I thought you were kind of a creative. I don't know what. right like Are you taking pictures? I don't know. But I figured that that checked out for me.
00:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, no, that that's that's a good that's a funny thing to note. Yeah, I I've only really done creative stuff for work as like freelance in a freelance capacity. Like, you know, like I've done like some photography, as you guys have known for like for just for friends, like usually it's it's never anyone that that was just strictly business. um Or I've done some copywriting for some men's you know brands and like some some like, you know, like email stuff or like some captions. But that was very, very brief. My my main job has always been um either like before that, like social media management, which kind of is you know brings those things together. But lately, it's just been like account management, which is just managing client conversations or client communications as well as the the campaign itself. And these campaigns don't usually require
00:22:35
Speaker
create anything creative from me. But to that point, I am client facing in the sense of like, I am handling that conversation along with this like a seller will pass it to me after that you know after the after the contract's been signed. Basically, it's like, okay, now here's Ethan who will manage this for us. and um and And then in that in that way, I occasionally will go to a client dinner, but that's not really like a schmooze thing. I mean, maybe I should take it more seriously. um But i I always see that as more of like a it's more of like a celebratory kind of a thing, you know, you know, and I think there is a little bit of like.
00:23:07
Speaker
upselling involved, but thankfully, like, I'm not a seller, i'm I'm just working on it. So like the seller will kind of like, you know, when the drinks are flowing, they'll be like, Oh, so how's your, you know, how's your q4 budgets, any room for us kind of a thing? And like and I can just be there, you know what I mean? i I'm definitely I'm like, I'm like the wingman. Yeah, wingman, which is great. Because, you know, I mean, I'm I'm sure if my co-workers listen to this, I am not a seller. I can upsell to an extent of it just feels natural. I just like talking about good things. You're not like a scumbag. You're not lying, manipulating, coercing. I can't do it. That's good. That's why you're not a piece of shit. I mean, that's very good.
00:23:49
Speaker
Yeah, I refuse. Yeah, I just I've never felt, you know, if we want to expand this conversation a little bit, I've never really been good or comfortable with selling like even like, say i yeah, i this is why I mean, I like this program.
00:24:04
Speaker
It's just so funny because, you know, i've I've worked kind of very briefly in menswear, but like, you know, ah but like I've been in stores like not working there, but like when someone is they like a customer, I can naturally talk about clothing. But it's like usually at that point, if they're in the specialty menswear store, this vintage store, they're already kind of into it. You know what I mean? If if they're asking. questions Right. And i know if I just talk about it, they're usually going to get into it. You know, but like I would hate to like have my whole thing be based on that and you know shout out to all the vintage sellers out there, all of the boutique men's were owners who have to like do that and like you know really really go into it. But I feel like, and this is just my bias experience, more often than not, the people who are walking into that store are usually ready to buy something or at least are more intrigued. like there's not You still have to sell to them, but this is like you're not like yeahre like converting. You're evangelizing is not the idea of wearing a suit. rodo Right.
00:24:59
Speaker
I've done a lot of retail, both like as a vintage seller, obviously, and previously working for high-end menswear stores. and um One of them in particular was sales based, like they still own a commission system. Yeah. And I was terrible at it. Like, because I, I'm kind of just, and I approach, like, I approach the vintage stuff the same way. Like, I'm not trying to sell you on something. If you want to chat about it, like I'll, you know, I'll talk about shit all day long because I love clothing, but
00:25:34
Speaker
you know, at the end of the day, you're either going to buy it or you're not. And I'm not going to try to like, you know, use car salesman, you for a fucking piece of cloth. Yeah, no, absolutely. It's like I guess I mean,
00:25:48
Speaker
At my core, I want you to want this, right? Yeah, totally. Totally. That's the best I think I mentioned this either in you know in my podcast and in many others where like you know like I'm able to do this and hang out with my friends because no one feels the pressure to dress like me. If they want to, they can. But like i truly I don't believe that because we're going to a nice cocktail place, they have to wear a spark coat or a tie. Totally, yeah. It's cool if they do.
00:26:14
Speaker
but like it's totally fine and and at these bars like no one no one cares you know what i mean like i mean i've also never been to a place that has dress code so like that's also one reason why maybe i'm a little bit biased but like in general generally speaking like the way that i see most people connect with literally anything it doesn't have to be clothes could be video games could be music whatever it's like they have to really want to be a part of it to like to get that experience you know it's the same thing with me where i I think I said this before, like I listen to film music, I listen to orchestra music a lot. I don't listen to a lot of, um I guess, so regular or non orchestral music. But I do have some music because I found it on my own. But when someone goes like, Oh, you haven't heard this artist? Well, here's the here's like the the three albums you got to deal with. It feels like homework, man. Like I can't yeah i just i can't do it. You know, yeah that's funny, because I remember asking you a while ago, do yeah like so and so or something, like you were like,
00:27:10
Speaker
Who is that? great Yeah, because I figured you would be like, uh, encyclopedic, you know? No, it is. It's so funny that that happens because like you add trivia. Like I said, like I've.
00:27:24
Speaker
I'm so bad. I feel like, oh, I've heard the song before, but I literally have no idea what it's called. ah That could also be because I've heard people experience music like like the like the singing is like an instrument. And so like i'm I'm hearing the melody and not the words. And so like i I can't put those two things together. I don't know my my weird brain. um But even that, like I think my brother was talking about jazz. My brother, like you know he likes kind of like like diva music and like and like Motown and stuff like that. and He was surprised also like when when he was starting to get into like the 40s stuff and he was like you know like listening to something song by ele Ella Fitzgerald. I was like, oh, OK. I mean, I know who that is.
00:27:57
Speaker
And I could answer a question, a trivia thing, based on her life or whatever. But if you say, oh, that song? I'm like, I don't know. I can't. I can't. I can't place it. It's crazy. I'm weird. I mean, we all have those little quirks as to how our brain works. One of mine regarding music is not being able to tune out whatever is playing, like if I'm in a store.
00:28:20
Speaker
Like it's it absolutely shocking. I hate it so much because I'm like, I really don't want to pay attention to this, but I ah can't not. yeah i like What's funny is that when I what's funny is that when i i um I'll start singing along or like I'll mash it. i'll i'll like I'll start mashing the song up in a store or whatever to something else. And and no one will know what I'm doing. I'm like, oh, like I'm riffing off of this and like, oh, there's a song playing. I'm like, yes, there's a song playing.
00:28:46
Speaker
like what like oh my gosh it's so it's so funny but like yeah i can't not do it it could be auditory hell but at least you it sounds like you try to make it fun so i can't i can't help but have fun you know what i mean like that's my whole thing speaking of fun yeah you posted recently about doing karaoke oh yes oh my god yeah yeah yeah and i i have done karaoke in la um a few places with our friend Eva from epaulettes over the years. um Awesome. What's your what's your go to karaoke jams, man? I gotta know this. Oh, I mean, I the the one I did recently, it's gotta be waving through a window from Dear Evan Hansen. um I'm a big, I was in like a big Broadway family. I don't listen to like every Broadway show. But like, that's what I love singing. Because I figured this out, like through the course of like a college and everything where like, I like singing, I i like
00:29:40
Speaker
i i know that I don't like crooners, but like my voice isn't that and I need something like melodic that a song goes through dynamic changes But also like fits like my voice, you know, it's not really pop. and I'm like, oh well I guess like Broadway music like yeah like there's a whole like like the song really develops and it takes a lot from your voice It's very intense or it can be soft and I'm like, oh so like naturally whenever I sing it's always like Broadway or like Disney stuff But there's occasionally like like Sam Smith except that's kind of close in that way, you know um Chapel Rowan's also great to do but um like yeah waving through a window is a big one Wait, wait, wait, hold on. Sorry. It's it's Rowan not Rowan.
00:30:20
Speaker
because i I was talking about this to someone yesterday. Oh my God, am i am I doing it wrong? Is that really? No, I have no fucking idea. i I know everything about this. I think it's Rowan. I've heard Rowan. I don't know though. Yeah, I don't either. And I, this is not my my lane as far as music goes. So like everything I know about this person, I've just seen from like a distance, but fuck, you just, yeah, is it Rowan or Rowan?
00:30:47
Speaker
She yeah nice seems, she seems rad. But like, I just, ah this is the first time that I've ever actually heard someone say the name. I think chapel is her grandfather's name or something. That's cool. I think it's Ron. I actually chaper like, oh, like chaperone.
00:31:08
Speaker
that's ah that's where she got ah Okay, okay. Yeah, it's got it's got to be a certain like a put on ah pseudonym, if you will. Yeah, I mean, it might be maybe it's a pun someone found out like later. Chapel, yeah, Chapel Road. Okay, it's wrong. Okay. Miss resolved.
00:31:31
Speaker
Even I got to say, you put an impressive amount of thought into basically everything that you do. And basically, it's occurs I do not do that. Or maybe actually now would probably say that I do that too, too much. And so yes, when you say that your whole mission is fun.
00:31:54
Speaker
What do you mean by that? I mean, how do you go about that? Because it seems like a lot of people that I know have not fun lives.
00:32:04
Speaker
I mean, I mean, obviously, I will say I'm very blessed to have, you know, first off, a job that that that lets me have a certain amount of freedom. I get to work from home. I get to, you know, go to a well.
00:32:14
Speaker
There are days I get to the go to a coffee shop, and there's also, as as my Discord and Sound Direction knows, there are days when I miss the window for the amount of the appropriate amount of time at a coffee shop, but that's very rare. But the fact that I can do that is you know is kind of an indication where like I try and have my life focus on the things that I want to do, the things that are fun, the things that bring me enjoyment, that bring um community in the form of like friendships and family, et cetera. So don't argue with strangers on the internet all day.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah, i I try to have to be past that part of my life or at least to have that be as a minimal, i have a minimal effect on my life as much as possible. It's funny how most of those things that happened happened when I'm just at home by myself versus when I'm actually out with friends. So maybe that's a good indication of oh i the difference there. I was talking about you. I was saying I know someone who spends an inordinate amount of time arguing with strangers on the Internet about basically anything.
00:33:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Well, maybe he's got to go touch the grass. you know i mean that That's kind of the whole thing, too, right? It's like... I'll say that that's a big part of
Living a Fun Life: Ethan's Philosophy
00:33:22
Speaker
it. and And touching grass obviously is a very vague thing. Like I spend a lot lot of time at home as much as I spend outside. And I feel like when i'm I'm at home, I am watching movies with friends on Discord. I'm playing video games with friends and I'm trying to have as tangible a connection as possible. um or Or I mean, it's also I also like to watch movies by myself. Don't get me wrong. I don't have to always be with someone. I'm not a codependent person. um But like all of that, I mean, I think that's ah that's what life is like about. You know, life is about
00:33:51
Speaker
I'm like this is about you know like having fun I don' i don't I don't mean it in like a hedonistic way but you know like life doesn't always have to be about about work for example and again I'm saying that as a very you know ice thankfully so far in my career I haven't had to like post about my job. I try and keep it as vague as possible. on on Whenever people ask me about it, I i have my co workers as mutuals on my Instagram and and social media accounts. So it's not like they don't know what I'm up to. But like, I just don't want that to be because like, that's not how I define myself. You know what I mean? like I, I'm not going to say like, Ethan Wong account manager. I'm like, Oh, Ethan Wong, I i well, I work clothes for fun. And I i now I'm like posting more of my singing because I finally have ah
00:34:35
Speaker
Well, first, if I go to karaoke more often now, which is great. Oh, hell yeah. You should. you Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate the support, but also like just like yeah posting it out there because it's also, you know, to go back to like to be on this conversation. Like I also kind of don't want my whole thing to be menswear either, although that is really hard because I wear cool clothes ah no matter what I'm doing. ah So it's kind of hard. How do you separate them? Yeah. How do I separate? yeah So for your
00:35:04
Speaker
I guess in L.A. and other large cities, like your social media profile is more or less an extension of your CV. Yes. Yeah. Right. Like, I mean, I'm sure people check you out and glean a lot. Yeah. So I don't know how to keep it separate. Do you bother? You know, it's funny, like I.
00:35:29
Speaker
I feel like I take it personally with time like there's like some like article that's kind of like very critical about social media when because if it's being critical about something that I think I also kind of do like there was recently a one and I kind of talked about it on and in our disc in my discord where it was like um about like like Instagram story post like and the sort of like dump posting like the like the whole like like and they increased it from 10 to 20. And I was like, yes, finally, like i don't have to like, I have more space for stuff. And, you know, and it is true that like like social media or these like Instagram platforms, like they
00:36:01
Speaker
because it's a new feature, they will promote those theyll they'll have that show up more to people so you get more engagement, etc. And of course, a lot of influencers are savvy to this now, so they feel this pressure to have a really good dump, no pun intended, kind of. um ah but But also, like there there's there's also this other article a while back that I also referenced where it's like,
00:36:23
Speaker
the Instagram dump needed to have this kind of like vibe to it. right It had to be chaotic, but not too chaotic. It's got to show certain things. you know There's a little bit of like irony involved in that whole thing. And I'm someone who documents a lot of things. i'm not goingnna I try not to take 20 pictures of one thing for the perfect one to find later. It's more so I'm just taking 20 photos of everything because I just i just love it so much. you know And everything is so funny to me. Everything is so silly. Everything is so wholesome, whether it's friends laughing. It's a funny sign or whatever.
00:36:53
Speaker
um And so like to me, I always love you know dumping like all this like stuff from the past week, because I also feel like that stuff isn't really worth just one photo. You know what I mean? like and And so like those dumps kind of make sense. And if people are friends with me on Facebook, like my family, like they know that I have Facebook albums every year, and it's called Everyday Silliness. And so what's funny is that like at the end of the year, you know this this this this album has like you know thousands of entries, because I post every day on this thing. And it's fun to like look back at the year and see what's up there. you know and so Um, but yeah, I mean, keeping it separate. I mean, I feel like I, at some point I realized like I was having so many fit pics. And while that's true of, of me, like, I mean, I love documenting my outfits. It's it's like, I'm sharing a cookie I baked or this like Gundam model or a Lego that I had just completed or something like that. Like i I also want more, more than just that as well. And so like, that's where like posting like photos, like photography I've done of other people.
00:37:46
Speaker
And then I was like, oh, uh, there's also, um, you know, there's also. Like things that I'm doing with friends, photos, you know, that of us hanging out, you know, there's, there's also like other stuff I want to take photos of and I'll singing. And so like, it's, it's not like, it's not like keeping it separate. It's more just like yeah making sure that my Instagram like reflects who I am. And it's just like, naturally there, you know, as people who have known me as being like a menswear guy or posting fit pics, like they might see like, oh, there's like, there's a more of a distinction or like ah a shift, but like,
00:38:16
Speaker
That's kind of like what I always wanted it to be. Because if you think about it, like Instagram, I always use it as like an extension of Tumblr. My Tumblr was very men's, what went went from being chaotic to being menswear focused, because I like super got into it. And so like Instagram was like all menswear. And then now I'm like, Oh, and it actually should be like Facebook, where like, it's just literally like what I'm up to, except it's, it's public. my fault My Facebook is private, for obvious reasons, because like all my family stuff on there. But like, it's, you know, like Instagram, like, you know what, like people can also like, you see this and the to bring it back to menswear. The hope is that people can see this and be like, oh well, Ethan's wearing a suit to karaoke or Ethan's wearing a tie to go get coffee and here's a selfie with like a fucking vanilla latte or whatever. like But and anyone can do this, you know what I'm saying? and yeah and
00:39:00
Speaker
I know that everyone can and i'm not I'm not saying I'm special for it, but I know that I have friends, like real life friends who are like, oh, I don't believe or I just I can't see myself doing that. And I'm like, well, here you go. Here's like, you know, me getting a croissant or getting ah getting a boba and I'm wearing a bow tie. It's like it's not a big deal. and and And also being open to do that, you know, it's not you're normalizing.
00:39:22
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah, but I'm being a very normal normal. um But yeah, that's such an important part to me. Just I guess maybe because I always grew up self conscious. And like, I, I always thought maybe if I just had some kind of evidence, right, I wish there was like a me that wasn't me fucking funny. But but it's like, I as i grew up, I was like, oh you there is no person that I at least in my orbit or whatever that I can see. So why don't I be that person to my friends? that You know, and Good! That's like your first self-help book! That's great!
00:39:54
Speaker
Truly. Yeah. I was going to say one observation about the 20 figure carousel is like that's the first pro photo thing that Instagram has done that I can write. Right.
Social Media's Impact on Life and Work
00:40:08
Speaker
Right. right oh Years and years. And yeah, I was going to to commend you, Ethan, because I am ah I'm sure that you've done reels before, but like I'm not a videographer like.
00:40:20
Speaker
I can turn some bullshit into a real easily, but like I'm not going to put time into into doing it. But I'm like, I like Instagram because it is for the base and yeah but still post photos consistently like are my favorites.
00:40:36
Speaker
No, absolutely. I mean, i I try not to post like the typical reels, you know what I mean? Like when it's like the whole get ready with me shit. Right, right. Yeah, you know, which i no no shade to those people. right do me fighting Like listen, the only person whose chest I want to see is LDB stuff with the silenced pistol on on the on the chest. I mean, that's fucking tight. But everyone else is like, you're why are you?
00:41:05
Speaker
I will. I'm interested in your clothing that you wear. Right. Right. Yeah. I don't I don't get a video, but show me a few pictures and I'm good. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that's why I i got on the TikTok because like I I put my videos on that more because like that that is a platform literally made for for video. And so I will. And as a 40 year old, anything that I would want to see on TikTok, I'm going to see someone repost on Instagram, explore eventually. So I'm good. I'm good.
00:41:35
Speaker
yeah no yeah i mean it it is it is so interesting to see like you know because all of these people they want to be like youtube you know what i mean like that's like my hot my hot take uh in the sense of like like Or I guess they want to be an all in one platform and they they want to take market share away from from YouTube. But that that is basically what the impetus is for that. And also from the influencer side of things like people like they like there's more sponsorships to be had in videos. You know what I mean? About advertising, right? Yeah, yeah no that is a purpose. Yeah, they want more ad
00:42:11
Speaker
like time in your ad space basically. Connor and I have talked about this amongst ourselves like in infinitely but you know the social media is in what I will give it.
00:42:26
Speaker
And like, I'm not one of these old man shouts at sky people. Um, but what I will give it is like giving people like us a chance to connect with other weirdos that are into the same shit that we are. Yeah. And it's like, you know, others have met right right, right. Like, you know, it's, it's cool. We can connect and you know, we've all been on this for years or decades.
00:42:50
Speaker
um in various ways, but like we can connect with people to share a similar interest in a way that like we could not in the 80s and 90s or any time prior. Yeah, maybe. The first person that makes like an aim clone. I feel like with the sales of Train, maybe an aim clone is coming. I don't know. But yeah, like it's still really cool that you know like you in particular kind of use and like enjoy social media from that type of aspect, even though they're just trying to sell us things. Yeah. I mean, again, if i it comes down to, I hate selling. And so like, I i yeah don't want to participate, right? Like that's the whole, that's the whole thing. right like I mean, it's so funny because like, yeah, if you like, well, look at my, I feel like I'm shadowbanned on TikTok, by the way. Like I feel like my, like I have, for some reason I have like 17,000 followers. Um, but ah it tells you how many views it gets. I'm getting like,
00:43:46
Speaker
300 to 500 views that that's like what like like 5% of your of your following like i right know yeah something tick-tock is like not showing myself other people but thankfully it doesn't matter because like I'm not making money off of it right right um but you know like and it's the same it's like the same yes 300 people each time because the comments the commenters are all the same and they're not bots which is nice that they're actually the people who see it the most but yeah I mean it's kind of like in that I mean I'm ah i'm also like yeah I'm I'm not allowed to participate even in the whole selling aspect because it's just not going anywhere. It's like, all right, fine, I'm just thinking of hosting a dumb video. Even today, I don't know when this is coming out, but there is this filter that's going viral about it's with perfect pitch. And so it's like, do re mi fa so la ti do, and you hum it.
00:44:31
Speaker
the like if you hit the pitch correctly it'll like your little ball will go through the right hole and so it's like if and if you're if you're not if you're not um on pitch you it won't go you have to like you have to like really hit like the actual the right frequencies i guess for it and i'm like do right now Well, it depends where you're starting, right? It's like, oh you know, i don't I don't have perfect pitch. That's the thing. I don't have perfect pitch. Yeah. Yeah. um But i I figured it out. I figured out relative. I guess I have relative pitch, but like I figured out where the starting point was and I just went through it, which was really great. But what's funny is that at the last part, I ran out of breath. And so just it's just really funny. Wow. i like you the Loser.
00:45:09
Speaker
I know, I know. You suck. That's my thing. I don't have really good breath capacity, which is fine. So you found your one weakness. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, that's right. It's the lung capacity. God. If anyone ever, like, you know, if an evil villain ever kidnaps you, they're just, they need to know that you have to, like, sing a note for a certain amount of time. Then it's all over. Or they won't copy. Yes. Before the bomb explodes around my head.
00:45:38
Speaker
That'd be a great plot to a fucking Batman film, I tell you. Yeah. i'll be I'll be the dead guy in that one. can happy Well, we kind of brought you here today. um I don't know. We kind of want to talk about about the menswear scene, about the menswear community and like what you think is going on. I mean, this goes a little bit to our earlier conversation about ad revenue. um Yeah. So like people's motives and What the fuck is going on? Like, it just seems weird. It seems like yeah a lot of the fun has been taken away. That is that is so true. You know, ah yeah um and you were referencing the article that I wrote yeah about like social media as like your... Great writer, by the way. i mean Thank you. Really a good writer. Yeah. I mean, shout out ah Madeline Schulz, who wrote that original article. um Like, Instagram is... ah Social media is your is your resume, but not everyone in fashion wants to be an in influencer.
00:46:36
Speaker
I saw that post by someone else and it's a Vogue business article. I don't know how someone's shared it to me. I don't know how they were able to do that. like It must be like a you know free article kind of a thing. I'm not a subscriber, so I can't do that. But I read it. I'm like, this has has so many of the thoughts that I've been having um about social media. and And if you're in the Sound Direction Discord, you know that this is like something that I am very interested in discussing.
00:47:00
Speaker
As someone who, as you guys say, like I enjoy social media, it makes me very sensitive to seeing how people use it. And and to like kind of and again, working in in marketing and advertising you know for most of my adult life, it's just kind of like I can see all the best practices and everything there. So it's really hard not to notice how things have had a little bit of a vibe shift.
Influencers and Fashion Industry Dynamics
00:47:19
Speaker
um But yeah, I mean, I've had those thoughts for a while, and it wasn't until that article by Madeleine Shulls that I was like, you know what, maybe I should like write a little response. was like I actually have more of like a I guess empirical data, because like they, Madeline, little responses. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. At the very least, like Madeline did interview people and like there were real responses and quotes to pull from. like this So it was a little bit like, oh, I'm I'm clearly not the only one feeling this way. And this is this has been shown in not just like the menswear, though the the artisanal boutique menswear scene, but also like in the regular general fashion world. And to summarize that article, it's kind of like, yeah, to be
00:47:57
Speaker
relevant, maybe it might be a might be my bias, but to be employable in that space, you have like a social media presence, let alone one with a following a some kind of audience is almost like mandatory. You know what I mean? Like and and like that that was to me, I've like I've been trying to say like it's and I feel like that's something that's been kind of like softly understood um in fashion, right? It is it's about who you know, obviously, but also like as fashion is in conversation with literally with with the culture and it's ah it's it's it's it's arts, but it's also commerce. Like the validation you get from social media, this kind of like vetting process of like having a following is like a way to kind of prove your worth, whether it's like, oh, people like your designs, people like your taste, people like your takes. And, you know, I i could see how maybe in like the, you know, in the 90s or in the 2000s where social media wasn't really a thing or our thing at all,
00:48:52
Speaker
you hire someone and then you you know then you're on probation for a little bit and you have to see if if they can you know bring their skills to the table. But here now, it's like get it you're getting that right off the bat. you know You won't even get the interview unless you have some some kind of sense early on. And that's the same thing people have been saying about other gig-based jobs, right? Music, big example, right? Like if you're a musician, if you have you know some kind of like, you know if you're having your practice sessions or some kind of, or your compositional skills on your, not just your YouTube now, but like now your TikTok and Instagram, like that's, so that's like a leg up, you know, same thing with acting, right? Like people are more, ah studios are more inclined to hire people, actors with an audience than someone who doesn't. And they might not say that it's based on acting skill, but at the very least it's saving on marketing dollars, right? It's just, you know, there's something to do there. And so with it with fashion, it's not really gig based, but it's almost being treated as such, you know, that and it's,
00:49:47
Speaker
I could see the appeal. There's this person I follow, she's got really great style, but she works at like Harper's Bazaar. I didn't follow her for that long. but like I'm, you know, what that you have that following beforehand did that help her get there. But off but now that she's there, she's obviously drawing a lot of eyes. You know, it's the Harvard Bazaar office. It's like, oh, here's my outfits for the week. And it's really cool like her i mean to be able to work in fashion and wear cool face. That's such a great bonus. ah But of course, you get all the other stuff in there, too, right? Like the behind the scenes of like photo shoots that they're doing or being invited to parties. And while that's all cool, I'm sure maybe it's projecting, but like there is this need to like keep up with that in order to like maintain her
00:50:26
Speaker
her job or to have have have like ah an example of CV if she wants to go elsewhere, you know, and she's bringing she's bringing not only the the artistic and creative skills and presenting that content, but also the audience that's been with her, you know, and and the only way to get a raise is to get a new job at like probably a different employee thing. Yeah, you have to jump all the time, you know, so it's very messy.
00:50:54
Speaker
And yeah it's like in fashion, almost every single person who works in clothing would rather do nothing. Yeah. You know, yeah, they would do it. They would s sleep on the floor. They don't give a fuck. It doesn't matter. No benefits. I don't care. Pay me 10 bucks an hour. Yeah. And they know that. Yeah. So you're really in a rock and a hard place. I mean, this goes back to the why thing, like with all of the immigrants coming to Hawaii.
00:51:23
Speaker
The B just pay them less, right? And so the indigenous people of Hawaii can't even get a fucking job. Yeah, yeah. I mean, i could yeah, definitely the the the appeal there of of being an influencer while you're working in fashion is, you know, I can see it. Like, I it i try not to make it too much of a knock on like the the so system that that works that we operate on, you know. And and it's cool, like, you know, to see these to see these benefits that normally would have been for just the general influencers, right? To see, like, people who work in fashion
00:51:55
Speaker
get like a delta partnership and get like a free flight you know and yeah it's maybe some some cases that you know they they cover the you know the the publication covers the flight but you know that might that you know if i'm being gracious they might i'm not that might not be the case across every fashion job obviously um and so like to like you know there could also be ah an indication that influence and marketing has diversified into like micro influencers or just like key opinion leaders that are not necessarily just based on follower count which is in a general speaking good, youre not just you know because it feels like they want to see the money go somewhere. um But that you know that, of course, as people who are in niche industries or niche interests, you're going to start seeing those same influencer stuff that you would normally see on like ah like ah like a travel vlogger now be seen at your menswear guy or something like that. right you know and And for me personally, it's a little bit jarring. But like again, i not to knock it, like for them, it might be. like
00:52:49
Speaker
Maybe some of the only ways you can get those kinds of fun perks or whatever. and But the thing is, to go back to being cynical, it's like, but those are also parts of your CV because that's technically a job that you're being paid to do. And I know for a fact, after working in this, people look, brands or clients will look and see, has this person done a brand deal before? Because they're not going to, if they're being gracious, they might give it to someone who has, you know, OK, we'll just, you know,
00:53:13
Speaker
tank the free clothes, we'll tank the, ah you we'll absorb the costs. But it's better if they, you know, if they, if there's, you know, oh, this guy actually did it in the, it's so professional, the content is good. And, you know, if there's like some kind of conversion, like a discount code, we know that they were able to do that and make you feel authentic. And so like, it's like a, you know, it's like a, I guess a positive feedback loop if you do it well enough. And so social media becomes that place of, again, not just, the not just like the whole, your cultural CV of like, oh, here's where I was.
00:53:42
Speaker
Here's that this example of me being at these places with the important people. But now it's like, oh, it's also I'm really good at selling things, you know. And so if you have both of that in a place where, again, for me, was just about scrolling and seeing like what my friend was up to, you know. And so and having friends who were in menswear were like even before, I mean, I don't want to I don't want to say rose colored glasses, but like I feel like before the guys who worked in menswear that I would follow like It was kind of like what it was now for me where like they were doing their regular life and maybe you'd see like a fit pic at their job, you know, at their job.
00:54:18
Speaker
But like that was kind of it. you know i mean like it was so like like They were just like a sales guy. And like you're following them because they you like you met them at a store, or like you are like you're a mutual. But then now it's like, oh, no, this is like a menswear account. You know what I mean? like there's like It's all in that way. it's it's it's it's all it It looks more like what a traditional influencer's account would look like, or whatever the current version is now, which kind of combines all these like parties and PR and everything.
00:54:44
Speaker
um Which again to me is. follow Do you follow anybody that's in politics in California? Probably not. No, not really. Well, so what you might notice if you did follow them is basically they go to parties. They go to gala. They go to a fundraiser. But that's what's up. And that's what the upper class does is they go to fundraisers for poor people. Yeah. Do what? Afterward. We don't know.
00:55:13
Speaker
They say, like, oh, thanks for having me at this whatever pack foundation thing. I can't believe people live like this. Yeah. Yeah, that is. Yeah. The whole idea of like influencer and micro influencer and all of this stuff is just so completely like asinine to me. Yeah. I'm glad that, you know, normal ass people are getting their bag, which I'm sure some of these people like were are just like normal folks, whatever.
00:55:42
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, the just the whole concept is it's just so like, I guess it's been wild to see the shift from like 90s and early 2000s, like pre social media type of advertising or marketing or whatever to present day.
00:55:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I somehow feel like that's I don't have any like thunder or whatever behind this, but it's like kind of like as social media shifts to becoming about like you, like your life, which I i sit take in a positive way. I feel like it really it it becomes more of like a projection thing. And that's not like nothing really that new. Right. But it's it's it's yeah, it's like similar to how like people will have like a Like a music Instagram, like like a musician might have a personal one and they might have one for just their music, but like they have to combine the two now because people want to hire under the guise of authenticity, you know, be it real or not. It's like they want to make sure that the person they're hiring is technically good, but also a person. Right. Which is like guess technically good. It's about reducing the number of jobs as well. I mean, combining jobs, every creative knows this, right? You used to be able to be a designer or a photographer and now you have to be both.
00:56:53
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. I mean, because because you're what you're what they're hiring is taste. And so if you're if you are able to show your taste through multidisciplinary activities, then you are a better hire. You know what I mean? Like, it's just... Oh, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah like yeah it's my yeah ah totally ah Totally unfortunate. Like, there's no way... Like, I mean,
00:57:12
Speaker
i i I did it you know freelance because I was decent at writing and I like taking photos. But now like with like video and everything in there and graphic design, like there's just like i can't I couldn't even continue doing that part time or whatever. like it's just It's just way too much stuff. because so It's not that I couldn't do it, so that it's just that other people will do it and they already are hustling it and they're going to get the job. you know If it's too much for you, then we are really fucked. Yeah, seriously. Social media should be should be fun.
00:57:42
Speaker
um But you get to a position where you can be like the the social medias are Because you've got the right idea It should be fun. Yeah about no more sponsored posts, you know, I want to talk about very quickly the feed Instagram feed and now I'm getting like Three and four times maybe the first post in my feed is an ad like yeah right at the top and then it's like add a Content maybe and then sponsored post. So it's like what am I even fucking doing on this if? I'm only being shown things to buy Yeah, what kind of ads are you getting by the way? and They're too crazy. Don't tell me no, I mean I don't um, I get a lot of uh, ozem pic ads I like because I
00:58:37
Speaker
I think that we should advertise for all medication and it should only be the choice of the person who is prescribed to whether they take it or not. There should be no doctor involved. Yeah. And you should get it in the mail. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. I should like really record. Oh, I just got a Ralph's groceries ad.
00:59:03
Speaker
The Saba dealer, the Bolo, these are weird. Oh Saba, is it Saba shoes? Yeah. So I'm not even saying they're shitty ads. I don't want to see them. I'm saying they're ads. I don't want to see them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. I have less ah call for the ads than I do like every 30 days when I've snoozed suggested posts. Like that drives me up a wall.
00:59:32
Speaker
the auto playing video. like Yeah, the auto playing video sucks. I usually keep my phone on silent. So you do like yeah, but at least like the auto play, you know, i't I don't I don't hear it if I don't want to hear it. Yeah. but Yeah. The thing like you follow this person.
00:59:50
Speaker
Are you interested in this?" And I'm like, I use Instagram Explorer for that. You already have an Explorer feature. I don't need a suggestion post. That's so interesting because my hot thing is I don't use my Explorer page at all. like i don't but When bored as shit, but I'm a night owl. like I've always been a night owl. like Most days I stay up until at least two.
01:00:14
Speaker
um But like when I'm bored and just like kind of chilling out hanging like I like explore because I get shown funny animal stuff For a while, it was all asses. And I'm not looking at... ah and then sub green Sometimes I will get the most random, like like maybe it's because I clicked on one video and so now, you know, two days ago. So now I'm getting all this stuff, but it'll be like people fishing. And I'm like, I'm not a fisherman. Maybe I clicked on a ah person on a boat because it was a funny alligator story from Florida. But like,
01:00:51
Speaker
I don't need to see someone casting a real and sitting still for three minutes. Hi, my name is Matt Smith and I have a funny alligator story from Florida to relay. Florida is not a real place, by the way. You know, but like, the yeah, the suggested shit bothers me way more than the ads because the ads, I'm just like, na fuck off. Yeah, it's the same. I mean, it is the same. I'm just saying like between the two, I will take the ads any day of the week. Yeah.
01:01:19
Speaker
That's, I should pay attention to my ads more. I feel like I, my Instagram never knows what I'm into. You know what I mean? That's so that's a positive. Yeah, I feel like it's funny because I feel like i I don't want to say that I defy it for some reason. um But it's like, yes, the ads to me are like they're so random, you know, I guess are they're very like localized. So it's like it's so easy for me to like just, you know, like to say, like, fuck it. You know what I mean? Like, and maybe that's why I pay attention more to like when regular people are posting sponsored content because like it's I'm following you, but I don't want to see an ad and I am getting an ad. Right. And that's kind of like it's like, again, looking at my export page right now,
01:01:58
Speaker
Hey, you know, I'm such a good, you know, tell the ladies I'm so good because there's no girls on this at all. It's all it's all animals and menswear. You know, I'm not going to I'm not going to get canceled or not. I'm not going to get called out. I should yeah my yeah explore a page. But like, you know, even now, like, you know, I the Ralph's grocery thing is the first ad I get. It's after the first ah after the first post. But even I'm looking at my Instagram right now as we're talking and the first post is a guy is local volleyball team like a guy I know.
01:02:27
Speaker
And like, see, like, that's what I'm talking about. Like, that's what I want to see. I want to see regular life stuff. You know, and then, of course, after that, it's a bunch of guys doing Fit pics, but they're all regular guys, too, I would say, relatively speaking. Yeah. The first thing I got just now is an Allstate insurance ad. Yeah, I have a T-Mobile ad, which, like... Yeah. Then it's two things, one by Ken Stalbitter that is a friend of the show. Mm-hmm. Check out Ken. Yeah. And then...
01:02:55
Speaker
a couple of other like people that actually follows us. It's also weird because it's never it's never the same. Yeah, I mean, because it's like, it's non chronological, right? And also, yeah, the ads can all be, oh, I just got the solid thing. Hey, are they listening? Oh. Well, they are. And like people will say, oh no, your phone isn't listening. But of course it does. Yeah. The first thing on my Instagram explore page is a post from the hard times, which I'm all about. Oh yeah. That's a good one. And then the third one. I just love T-Mobile as a brand. And so anytime I see that pink border, I'm like,
01:03:35
Speaker
Yes. Maybe we can use this as an experiment to see the amount of things we mentioned. I think that CEO is so green. And see yeah see what our ads look like the next couple of days. i you know i'm I'm still so happy that I've never bought anything from a social media ad, yeah you know? Me neither. I can't say the same thing for my parents. They're they're like, I mean, you know, the kind of like, well, I guess they're not millennials, they're Gen Xers, I guess. But like, it's like, they're like the prime audience for that. You know what I mean? Like, they're like, i mom just likes to buy shit. Like, if she could buy from Skymall, she would. I just had a thought. Yeah. Yeah. What is the ah what is the connection between social media ads
01:04:19
Speaker
and those like random ass commercials that you used to see back in the day where it's like, hey, we've got this thing, dial 1-800, blah, blah, blah. You know, like it's kind of the same shit. It's just a generation. I can't even I don't even know what that means. I don't know. I've never seen one of those. No, no, no. Like the television ads where it'll be like, well, what are they advertising like a QVC thing?
01:04:45
Speaker
No, no, not really QVC, but like ah the one that comes to mind was just like musical compilations that were, you know, like the hits of the not love the 70s. And they like chia Chia pet stuff, I feel like kind of counts. there yeah Chia pet stuff. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Like those made for TV ads that we all grew up seeing. So like an infomercial?
01:05:08
Speaker
Yeah, like infomercials, like the it's the social media ads are kind of like the next generation of infomercial in a lot of ways. Well, that that's so funny you say this because that is actually the trope that it's invoking. Like I remember reading from somewhere, another podcast said it where they were saying how like TikTok live shop, right? Like the whole thing of like, you know, like you could scroll and people will like sell things live for you. like What does that mean?
01:05:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's like like a QVC style thing. it It works like everywhere except the US for some reason. Oh, God. And it's like and it's like it's like in like in like Japan. We have people protected by the law in this country. Yeah, well, I mean, it's it's kind of just like, I mean, it's just people are so skeptical, I think, or it's just so different, you know, or it's associated- We have big procedures, of course it's because it course yeah everyone else has, yeah. Yeah, but what I think what's funny is that, you know, they see it work with like, the obviously, the older people on social media, but that's not a giant population.
01:06:03
Speaker
What is interesting, though, is that that style of commercial has now shifted into the content on TikTok. And I guess if you guys aren't on TikTok, you want to see this a lot, but like it'll it'll start out kind like it it'll be very it's it's it's almost like the the 2020s version of it where like a guy will like how it'll be like weird editing or like a very like a screaming guy like you like Billy Mays or whatever. And so I have some kind of like problem.
01:06:27
Speaker
And he'll be like, oh wait, I got this thing to to like, that fixes this whole thing. Like, oh, you know, it could be like cleaning your grill, like literally be like an infomercial. It could be that it could be, you know, it when you are cleaning your toilet and you get poop all over your body. Yeah. Or like, I've been getting a lot lately because maybe I have been talking about this for like, uh, as a, as for context, I, I do a lot of like commentary stuff on, on TikTok as well. Like, like the blog because I can't help myself, but talk.
01:06:51
Speaker
But I don't like I live it it gets kind of hot in here. My computer isn't here. It gets really, really hot. So I have to have the air conditioning on. But whenever I record those things, I got to turn that off because otherwise you'll hear it. And it's like I kept getting getting ads about like wireless like like Bluetooth microphones for your smartphone and It's one thing to have, like, you know, if you're scrolling on Instagram and seeing, like, an ad pop up for it. But it's one other thing, another thing, the TikToks of like, like, do you do you hate when your videos sound like this? And it's like a guy, like, you know, scream or it's really loud, like, oh, watch this. And he'll like hook something up and he'll walk like back into a room and then do it. And I'm like, that's literally an infomercial. Like, it's it's like they they noticed that the the TikTok live shop thing was not working in the United States. And so they've they've the creators, these US s creators who know that they can make commission off of selling the stuff because TikToks
01:07:38
Speaker
can can link directly to something on the TikTok shop, which is kind of like an Alibaba or Amazon type of thing. um can You can link directly to it. And so like people are just finding ways to find this random ass stuff that they could write they can sell from a TikTok shop and then make some kind of a weird video about it that has the similar the same thing with TikTok, where like it has like jumpy editing, it's very attention grabbing, and it's so cheap that you can just can't help but but buy it. And that's that's like the totally like The biggest thing and I'm seeing that not just with like like CPG stuff. It it could be like fucking like candles. It could be like but ah all the clothes on TikTok shop are like really dumb.
01:08:17
Speaker
I don't like I guess the 2020s version of like an of like a Target like coke t-shirt It's like sweet like like or just like or like a like a Spencer's gift kind of like a Funny thing on it. Like that's been that's been like really good on there. I'm sure they're selling it's like teenagers or whatever but it's really to see like that because it might be a You know, i again, this stuff is not based on any real studies, but just something that I've seen in my experience working in this. But like, as if we're seeing advertising dollars, like, you know, or shift or attention shift from like a whole video that's sponsored, it's it's easier just to crank out videos that just are connected to something on the TikTok shop and you made some like dumb story about it, you know?
01:09:01
Speaker
and And the TikTok shop has everything, like just like Amazon. like you could People can make a whole account about like like phone tech stuff. like a lot of like Some of the easy stuff to sell are those $20 microphones that you can just buy. And they're relatively good, like i mean at least compared to the course of the video. It may be just working on me. right Or it could be like you know like like screen protectors or like cute cases that have like a duck on the back. It's so he's like dumb stuff. Whatever it is, it's made out of plastic.
01:09:28
Speaker
And it will never leave the earth. Yeah. Yeah. Do they have some partnership with Teemu where they're like, you know, I wonder I shut it out. I wonder if that's like their fulfillment center or something there. You know what I mean? I was like trying to buy a weed vaporizer, like a cannabis cartridge vaporizer because the one I have is like proprietary and very annoying. Anyway, so. I found that there basically aren't I don't know. It's like we're we have less and less certainty over what we're buying. Like everything looked the same, but it was clearly different. Yeah. And that is bizarre. And that is definitely a new thing. Yeah, no, i' absolutely. I mean, that is you know to bring it back to what we're talking about. it like It's kind of like how menswear is kind of like the saving grace in that regard where it doesn't feel like like the products that menswear creates is and is not like that.
Marketing Strategies and Podcast Humor
01:10:27
Speaker
But then we're still seeing the same kind of like selling practices. I guess it's a little bit cooler. I guess it's it's sneakier. you know it's it's yeah It's under the guise of being, like I said in in my in my article, like ah like a Slim Aaron's photo set. right like it's You want to be invited to these parties. You want to get this free stuff. And you you know and and and maybe at the end of the day, it's like these people know that it's about like awareness or whatever. like That's the whole thing. like Because they know that Drake's not going to convert random people on Instagram. you know They're not going to get it through you know, by the e-commerce, you know, buys but like, but like, you're gonna get into it by like, thinking the brand is cool, and then it'll be aspirational. Again, that's nothing really new. It's just for for me invading a space that was
01:11:12
Speaker
more or less wholesome or at the very least I wasn't a part of any like really big youtubing group or whatever that you know that I would see only like sponsored videos or whatever from like I was still like following random ass people you know what I mean like it's not it's a Trojan horse right I mean it's like a way that they don't know get us to do things that we're not really on board with yeah I hope that I'm like, ah I want to think I'm an individual. I want to think I have agency, but maybe someday. You are. Yeah, i had Anyone looking up fucking nerdy menswear content on the Internet. Yeah. Has agency and we're we're people.
01:11:55
Speaker
that Yeah. like We're Ethan Long fans on the on the podcast. Yeah, yeah. where where i love safe One final thing, of course, the reason that our podcast does not have millions upon millions of listens is the word apocalypse in the title. So we've been shadowbanned since day one. Probably. Probably.
01:12:17
Speaker
That's a really good, that's that's probably what happened actually. Hey Wilson, we're good at this kind of stuff. Yeah, you should' you should have like misspelled it somehow, that way it wouldn't trigger anything. Yeah, we we should have used a Z instead of an S, and really brought it back to the 90s. Yeah, yeah. well Next time. Next time. Yeah. Next time. Next time. Yeah. You'll have to start a new podcast and then see and then just upload the same episodes. And then if the if the new name, like the the slightly different name or the spelling, I guess. We're split testing this motherfucker. Yeah. Talk about marketing. This is this is yeah that, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
01:12:53
Speaker
Well, we're all in. Yeah, dude, thank you. This has been fun. Oh, of course. Yeah, I'm always happy to cut to come on here. You know, I feel like you should really get paid to to talk. I mean, so you giving us your time yet again for free. I mean, we're going to make ad revenue off of this. Yeah. Yeah. All of our zero dollars that are coming in and ad revenue and the um sponsorship is a go. So we're going to be eating roast beef nonstop. Even Matt.
01:13:22
Speaker
I will not be eating roast
Ethan's Projects and Late-Night Routine
01:13:24
Speaker
beef. I'll make you some like brown Slices of I don't know something that approximates roast beef, but isn't yeah. Yeah, yeah love that Sounds yummy. So forky So forky solid, yeah, there you go strips the slices or or sandwi slices I wouldn't give you the lump Wait, what what? The Thanksgiving tofurkey. Oh, yeah. it um Not about that. life Yeah. A large organ shaped lump. there's There's way, way better vegan products. Oh, yes. Certainly by now. Ethan, de thank you one more time. um And please shout out ah whatever you would like. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, fall if you guys want more of more Ethan, you guys can go listen to Style Direction.
01:14:15
Speaker
Um, you know, with, with me, Spencer and MJ, we talk about stuff, uh, rant or, you know, it could be random. Uh, you know, whatever men's wear stuff, tickles are fancy. Uh, there's my blog, a little bit of rest, which is more of my personal thoughts. Um, but if you just want to follow me on Instagram and, or Tik TOK it's Ethan M Wong. And you can see whatever the hell I happen to be up to. And believe you me, you'll see it because I post about whatever it is. And you'll be like, God damn it. Why does this person have so much fun?
01:14:44
Speaker
ah everyone can karaoke is great everyone should do karaoke everyone should do karaoke well it's like everyone watch the movies you annotate the movies how do you have time to do it all we talked about this listen i don't i i stay up until like three o'clock in the morning i have like what do they call it reverse reverse productivity kind of where it's like like i you know after after working I write or I read and then whatever I go and then it's midnight cool now it's vegetation time so now I just end up sitting in my bed watching TikTok or watching some sitcom until three o'clock because I need i need i need actual non-productive time and so thankfully so far I can operate off of what five hours of sleep like three to three to eight o'clock you wake up at eight o'clock and jump into work or whatever it is so but unold until I can't yeah I'm still doing it.
01:15:31
Speaker
I guess we'll see. Maybe this podcast will be around for part three. Right. Yeah. Right. I love it. Let me know, guys. I'm always down. Hell yeah.
Closing Remarks and Social Media Plugs
01:15:40
Speaker
Well, thanks one more time. Really good pleasure. I mean, yeah, very much a pleasure. Everyone, thank you for listening. um Follow us on Instagram at apocalypse studs. Shoot us an email if you so desire apocalypse studs at gmail.com. I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues.
01:16:01
Speaker
And I'm Connor Flower at Connor Flower on his run. Yeah, we'll see you next week. Bye bye. Ciao.