Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Hunter Sanders Horror Show
162 Plays26 days ago
Hey all you Potterheads! A number of “Firsts” on this show, we’ll let you reveal just what they are. We talk to Hunter Sanders, writer, father, emergent dresser about lacrosse AND Harry Potter, We talk Oklahoma, What it’s like living as a weirdo in the midst of assholes, Problematic Bible Study, Certain Feelings of Obligation, Rural Life, Fantasy, Renn Faire, Breece D’J Pancake, At Long Last: Astrology Discussion, Robert Lowell, Ilya Kaminsky, Matrilineal Jewelry, and more
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Poetic Beginnings
00:00:01
Speaker
Good afternoon. Welcome. I'm Connor Fowler. And I'm Matt Smith. And this is a bottle of studs. We have a great and long awaited guest here in the studio with us. ah Not my brother or my relative.
00:00:19
Speaker
But a redhead nonetheless. yeah they Everyone wants to go to episode 1, so maybe they're right. ah So I wrote a little poem for you because our guest, Hunter, is a poet. ah A good one at that. yeah So I wrote a little poem that I thought we could you know bring you in on. And and before that,
00:00:39
Speaker
This is not out of character for Connor to write a poem. Just- I love it. I'm so excited. Giving him props because he sent me mini poems in the span of our friendship that he has written. I love it. Well, it's a nice way of communicating.
00:00:55
Speaker
He'll toss you a hotel salad. He'll pen you a thoughtful ballad. In his loafers, he's quite gallant. Smash capitalism with a mallet, peeling back layers of shame like a shallot.
Life in Oklahoma: Parenting and Place
00:01:06
Speaker
Welcome, Hunter Sanders? Hotel salad?
00:01:11
Speaker
Yes. Hello. Thank you. guys oh yeah that's Honestly, Connor, I'm impressed. I don't give you props enough. That was that was the one that came quickly, so i was I knew it would be good because it's like when I'm like, when i'm like I got to write this down immediately, I know that it probably is a fun at least a funny one. That was a good intro. I write it with imagery, the mallets, the loafers. The shallots. yeah shalllets I love a good shallot, so that's fantastic.
00:01:40
Speaker
huntter How's it going today? It's going well. um Yeah, I'm just chilling. ah my My young son, I'm a stay-at-home parent too, so my boy is with my parents right now. So I've got the afternoon just hanging out to myself. Wow, got it. Yeah, it's been a good afternoon. yeah how ah How's the weather where you are?
00:02:00
Speaker
The weather is like finally fall-like. It's been like in the 90s, up until like two days ago, and now it's like in the 30s in the morning, and it only gets up to 60 in the afternoon. yeah So it's finally getting there. Yeah. It sounds sounds about like what I've been dealing with down in Georgia. Yes. Yeah. So yeah so where where are you from, and where do you live now?
00:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm from the Oklahoma City like proper like area for the most part. We just moved to Guthrie, Oklahoma, which is a small town just north of Oklahoma City, which puts me kind of smack dab kind of in the middle of the United States. Like if you just kind of put a pin in the center, that's kind of where I'm at. So yeah, it's been good. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I've ever been to Oklahoma City. I've been to Tulsa a few times. Like I have some different friends.
00:02:57
Speaker
Yeah. it's acute tone Honestly, I've driven to Tulsa a few times from Atlanta and like it's not the worst drive in the world and kind of enjoyable. No, yeah. It's really beautiful. Matt says it's not the worst drive in the world. It's got to be like harrowing and brilliant because Matt does a lot of driving.
00:03:18
Speaker
I am a national driver, but once you get past like Memphis and Arkansas, if you're going west, it's nice. It's very flat. there's nothing really you kind of There's a little bit of time dilation where because you're not actually occurring a lot of landmarks in terms of space.
00:03:38
Speaker
You kind of zone out and then you've suddenly teleported to, you know, exactly where you're going. I feel like that every time I've ever driven across the Midwest. Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah, like the Suites of Land. Yeah, Oklahoma, like parts of Missouri. Yeah, Wyoming, you know, all this shit. yeah they They malign it by calling it flyover country, but it really is the only way to see the Midwest.
00:04:03
Speaker
You gotta look down, it's got all the fun, like tracks of land. I always like whenever I'm flying and I can look down over the land and all you see is just these giant shapes, like these giant squares. like It's kind of, it's really amazing. oh yeah Yeah, it just reminds me of like looking at a map and in real life. Yeah, yeah, exactly. it's Except, yeah, there's a giant Oklahoma cartoonishly painted across the the landscape of Oklahoma. So you can, you know,
00:04:33
Speaker
I like to see the highways working, you know, like little cars or little ants moving along, if it's working anyway. So I'm going to maybe edit this out, but I feel like I have to ask you.
00:04:48
Speaker
Is there an Oklahoma City bombing memorial? There is. I love talking about the Oklahoma City bombing memorial. That is like one of my pet things. Yeah. Let's do it. the The Oklahoma City bombing memorial was made ah by, there was a like nationwide, I want to say it was nationwide contest. We'll say it's nationwide and be hyperbolic and then if if it's not, someone can correct it and we'll Well, it won't be us. Yeah, yeah sure. them it's it's a It was made in a contest um where a bunch of people submitted designs for a memorial and it actually is one of the most kind of consciously designed ah memorials in the US. So it is like,
00:05:35
Speaker
It's actually kind of impossible to fully elicit all the different ways that it is conscious of of where it is. but it's so the the bombing The building obviously that was bombed is no longer there. Sure. But the building adjacent to that, they have ah kind of retrofitted into a museum. um And so the museum is also one of the more unique experiences that you can have at a museum where it brings you ah narratively throughout the course of the bombing day.
Navigating Politics and Parenting in a Conservative State
00:06:08
Speaker
Jesus. So it'll bring you into, yeah, it's really fantastic. like It'll bring you into this room where it's like, oh, you're coming in for work at the at this building. like Here's the morning. Here's the news that was on that morning. And then there is a like a bombing room where essentially they kind of play um like a radio thing. So they whenever you go through the museum, they do it in groups of like six.
00:06:36
Speaker
and they play recordings of like ah first responders and like all this like all these calls coming in, people reporting the bombing, that kind of thing over you as you kind of walk through. Yeah, and it's it's really crazy because it'll bring you into the space of the moment really, really well, and it'll carry you throughout then the investigation.
00:06:57
Speaker
um of finding Timothy McVeigh, um how like they found him, the memorial efforts afterwards. like It's a really, really conscious museum. And then the gardens, they they have a garden adjacent to that museum, which is actually in the spot where the building used to be.
00:07:16
Speaker
And it has, like, a chair for, like, each of the victims, I think it is. Like, stands here and... Yeah, illuminated. Yeah, very stunning, kind of. Yes, it's beautiful. I was just looking, and I've never seen it before. I just had to look this up and see when it happened, because I couldn't totally remember. And apparently it was also the second anniversary of the Waco siege.
00:07:44
Speaker
Yeah. And that was deliberate. Oh, yeah. I mean, I know like it's been a minute since. Yeah. It's also the spring before I was born. So that should tell. Oh, wow. Just like it is the beginning of the moment that we are in right now. Like when that happened, that was the beginning of all this shit and people will say other stuff and they're not right. They have not thought about it for long enough because it's definitely what it is. The culture war. it well the not just the culture war but the like extreme right yeah the the um otherwise underground for a very long time right extreme right like started infiltrating like mainstream shit and can i say too that's what i like i think that's one of the things that i've loved about oklahoma as a place is it because i think it represents this sort of
00:08:37
Speaker
underlying, kind of often unrecognized center of a lot of intersections of American life. like it has It's part of the Bible Belt. It is a site of right-wing extremism, you know but it also makes certain other ah living at a different intersection, makes that a lot more interesting. right like if I am being like a leftist, I guess, like in this space, what does that mean for me if the majority of right? Like, let's say that every county, we're the only state in the US where every single county voted for Trump in 2020, right? Like, that's an actual fact. It's like, what does it mean that to live the way that like, I am living? Well, dude, that's why I was so it's like, ah so desperate to have you on the show, because like, that is an amazing,
00:09:32
Speaker
perspective that is like a more easy situation to be in. So we're deeply curious about what it is like to live where you live and to feel how you feel. Yeah, that's great. oh Thank you. Yeah, I think that it's so cool. And I think that that is like one of the that's like one of the pillars of this show is like, what is going on elsewhere? Like how are other people who feel the same way that we do living? Right, right.
00:09:57
Speaker
and it seems like you're doing okay. Yeah, I'm doing i'm doing okay, I'm surviving. I think that there's like, um it's definitely been, ah it's it's definitely like an interesting um place to try and like format, for lack of a better word, like a life, um especially with ah regards to like care and attention, right? Like there's, um I think in trying to raise, so our son is a year, a little over a year and a half. He should be 20 months going on 21, I believe. And so I don't really like doing the month by month phase. I don't like doing the months, but it's also for- When you're close to it, dude, you can tell the fucking difference.
00:10:49
Speaker
Yes. if you're If you're close to it, you know like what should and shouldn't be happening at different months. and when it like that yeah For anybody who has a kid, that's a very telling statement. For anyone who does not have a kid, that means nothing to them. Right. oh ah yeah so hes He's about there. and like In terms of thinking of like schooling and stuff, like I think like largely our plans are to like homeschool him like for a while um just because like the ways that kids are exposed here to like um like like I don't want I think obviously like certain conversations like let's say race right let's say you're talking about race those conversations become more serious when they're in middle school but your earliest formations obviously happen
00:11:39
Speaker
and like preschool, kindergarten, that kind of thing. So I think raising him to where, not to shelter him too much, to but but to make sure that those conversations are very intentional and to make sure that he's kind of set up ah to be to be successful in a really propagandized educational system, especially like around here. That's really important to us. That's so great. Yeah. You should write a book.
00:12:04
Speaker
oh man i i couldn't even uh i i think it's i i don't know anything about parenting uh so so like i'm definitely doing that's any idea yeah it just is like that's extremely refreshing to hear because yeah people are like what do you mean i like yeah it just is like That's a great attitude and perspective to have, I think. Yeah, I would also imagine there are probably being in the Bible Belt raised, born and raised here in the Bible Belt also, like a lot of
00:12:38
Speaker
very, ah quote unquote, Judeo Christian things that infiltrate the the schools there. Oh, yeah. Like, I think we just had our state superintendent just tried to approve a plan that the ACLU is suing him over um to try and ah put Bibles in the hands of like every child. in our room yeah They contacted him for Trump's Bibles, right? Yes, exactly. Yeah, there are yeah I've seen this. yes yeah So that's in in my state. So it's definitely like, yeah, if you if you're talking about that kind of those values, especially like very suffused throughout the culture, right? It's definitely it's also funny being in like a smaller town.
00:13:23
Speaker
because I was in Oklahoma City, which is definitely a little bit more, um, more urban. It's, it's definitely not like a massive city. It is a massive city by lands for all, but it is not a, uh, it is not like Chicago or something in terms of other Midwestern city, but it, um, definitely like it was a little bit of a culture shock, not a major one, but definitely a little bit of one because we came into, so Guthrie is like,
00:13:53
Speaker
you know, ah Oklahoma City is like millions of people. And then um Guthrie is like, tens of thousands, you know, and so I mean, I have no idea I have no idea what that like, what down ah that's, that's not like, like, comparatively to like, where I'm, like, my hometown, that's like, tens of thousands is still bigger than how big is that town, but it's Yeah, it's it's not even like that's not even like a midsize. Hello. That's still like a pretty small town. Your audio is not working for whatever reason.
00:14:31
Speaker
So it's not anymore. It's working now. but Yeah. Sorry. yeah It's all good. So you were saying, Oh yeah. So like, you know, I come from a town of about 10,000 people and like tens of thousands, like even if that's 20 or 30, it's still not a mid-sized city. It's still pretty fucking small place.
Rural Life and Creative Influence
00:14:49
Speaker
Yeah. Oh yeah. Like, and so we came here and it, the culture shock was like going from,
00:15:00
Speaker
a especially if you're talking about like the suffusion of evangelical Christianity in the culture. yeah We came from a city where you may go to a coffee shop and someone's having a problematic Bible study.
00:15:18
Speaker
Right. um And then we came to ah this town where then, I think one of the first experiences that I had at a coffee shop here, which we only have one here, is- What is it called? It's called Hoboken Coffee.
00:15:34
Speaker
it's Which is funny because it is nowhere near home. That's a choice. is it is like It's a vaguely a vaguely New York type place. I am not entirely sure why as a local here I should know why that's called that and I will definitely ask them. I do not know why it's called that. Well, you were responsible for that naming nomenclature anyway. Right, yes. Yes, exactly. I think we've chosen something more adventurous anyway.
00:16:01
Speaker
Yeah, I have no idea. We have lots of great, I will say the Oklahoma City coffee scene is really fantastic. the We have a lot of great coffee. I've been to other towns where they say they have coffee and they do not. um and Lots of coffee is really, really bad. Yes, that's true. The good thing about coffee is that it sucks a lot of the time because they just fucking roast the shit out of it. And like and people don't know. Yeah.
00:16:27
Speaker
yeah just yeah but you may go so whenever we go to uh sorry i got off my my my first i started talking about coffee and then i totally forgot uh basically one of the first experiences that we had going to a coffee shop here was uh someone in like in my periphery talking to somebody else and they were like yeah and susan's got the devil in her and it's like And it was like, okay, these are different levels, obviously, of ah a belief, types of belief, right? like This is definitely, like, what you're committed to is definitely different in terms of, like, how suffused this thing is. And so anyway, but yeah, definitely, it's it's definitely a culture shock. The coffee is really good.
00:17:15
Speaker
I would go to this coffee shop. i did make I have now named the coffee shop and told one terrible thing that happened there, but it actually is a is a good coffee shop that is very talented. Shout out Hoboken Coffee. yeah good see you get a You get a freeze tall coffee with this code. yeah Yes. on yeah yeah Definitely don't do that. i would They would charge me. I'm in there enough. No, they have my account. They have the Asian account. It's all on us. you know It's not on you. Plus that's a story. Yeah, we take the bullet for you. love it I appreciate that. That's actually really generous of you because that was my blunder. and but i'll i like to say You know what we do is that we like to take on other people's problems on this program. Yeah, yeah that's good. Yeah, I appreciate that.
00:18:07
Speaker
what It said their ending need is a friend indeed. Yeah, we ah it's been a fun transition. um But oh honestly, it has been really good for us to move to this more rural environment.
00:18:28
Speaker
It ah what we discovered was that our negotiations that we were making with living in a city ah largely had to do with what we thought the city represented for us and not what we were actually getting out of living in a city. You got to repeat that because that's really, at least for me, resident, like Yeah. Do you want me to repeat it? for but yeah That was a great point. a lot A lot of our living in the city had to do with our negotiations of what the city actually meant for us versus what it represented for us. We had to,
00:19:09
Speaker
um whenever we were thinking of what we did in the city. All of those things were still available if we move out to this rural environment. um all Luckily, we live only a half hour from where we lived before.
00:19:25
Speaker
So it's not a major, major commitment. We're not super far out. But at the same time, it was like we were committed to this idea of the city as something that young people do, as something that adventurous people do, as something that talented people do. And for us, we had to kind of look at our life and say,
00:19:44
Speaker
Well, we're not using the city in these ways. We are not actually connecting with the city in these ways, but we are connecting with like our family life in these particular ways, or we're connecting with our art in particular ways, right? For me, like writing, it was like, do I actually need to be engaged with this particular city in order to be engaged with my creative life? And then the answer to to me ended up being, no, i don't I don't need that. It's going to follow me.
00:20:12
Speaker
And it can develop and change as I move. up so sorry i just I feel like that's a that's a really good way to approach a move like that. And like you said, you're not super far from the city proper. like you know it's just It doesn't make sense for everyone. and Yeah, i mean yeah like the main reason that I live in Baltimore is because it's cheap.
00:20:35
Speaker
yeah yeah like i couldn't live in the camp I couldn't probably live in any of the counties really like in a comfortable way. So I live here. yeah And that's tight. yeah That's like exactly what I know. That's a fantastic reason to do anything. just it was People don't talk about that a lot. I don't think people don't talk about it. It's a very blind city. I'm living in my very rural hometown right now because of the same reason and because I'm just like,
00:21:03
Speaker
had to get away for a minute. I'm still in Atlanta multiple days a week and you know tons of time, but it's like I'm not super far. it's I've really like started concentrating on things that like you know are more creative because I have like less shit going on and like around me.
00:21:25
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I think that there's a way to where it takes up, I think sometimes, and this is not an anti-city position. No, definitely. I do think sometimes that can take up some kind of latent space in the back of your mind um in terms of, at least for me, it takes up space in terms of what I feel that I should be doing. I think living in a city comes with certain feelings of obligation and as things are happening around you. And I think that ends up kind of manifesting as like FOMO.
00:21:54
Speaker
where it's like, there's so much happening around me, I feel some responsibility to be a part of it. And I think for me, I had to kind of take a step back and be like, okay, what am I actually interesting and engaging in? and And are those things still possible?
00:22:10
Speaker
uh in a different environment and you know and and now they are and like they're more available now i think because i have the space to choose yeah and i mean let's be honest i think a lot of amazing uh writers chose that kind of like isolation from while they wanted to do their work they're using that with the fucking points yeah yeah yeah i think that's a great i mean right like the th through like ah lots of people decided to go away and for some of them it was good yeah right exactly yeah sorry go ahead no no you're good well i was gonna say i feel like the way that being in a rural environment has affected my writing to has been to
00:22:59
Speaker
center the rural instead of like kind of harkening back to like city life. It's now kind of created this space in the work where there's like more silence. There's more ah land. There's more nature. um There's more there's more of like the things like the the objects of um domesticity around me like my dog features a lot more prominently.
00:23:26
Speaker
right? yeah and And instead of what would happen when I was like in a city environment, everything was kind of this, this orgasmic explosion of like image where it was like, it's too much image, you know, it's too, there there's too much to work with, kind of paring it down and being like, can I really meditate on my dog for a while?
00:23:45
Speaker
That's actually like become more interesting and actually kind of formed my artistry in a different way that I really like. Hell yeah. One of my favorite writers, Breastage Pancake, was it you know, kind of kind like he was from Appalachia and a lot of what he wrote about were the things around him, like so cut off from most, you know, quote unquote, modern civilization. Yeah. Can you spell that? Breast.
00:24:13
Speaker
ah B-R-E-E-C-E. Deej, D, apostrophe J, pancake. It's so funny because i was I've told Matt about this guy, this guy Nick. He is from West Virginia. like He takes amazing photos. He went to the Corcoran School in DC, so he's like, accomplished, I guess. In any event, he's an Appalachian artist, and he gave me the Bruce J. Pancake book. Oh, nice. Yeah, so I think it's a weirdly, um I guess,
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah, how do we recommend like, ah a not, not hard to understand read, but very like deep read, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah that that track. Um, and yeah, he also like offed himself. that Yeah, we're saying we're a young, a young, a young- Yeah, yeah side on this program all my heroes apparently killed themselves. thats That's the case with me also, so that's- A lot of them, not all. but
Identity, Inspiration, and Nostalgia
00:25:19
Speaker
Sure, sure, sure. Did you see that thing that Sam, another person who's been on the show, posted that ah white men, I guess, die the hero or live long enough to become the villain?
00:25:29
Speaker
Nice, that's it. That's a pretty astute observation as well. That's also a quote from Batman, The Dark Knight, I believe. Yeah. But a partial quote, right? I mean, it's not like that. Yeah, totally. but ah the Yeah, like it's, I mean, as well. Is it originally from Batman, really?
00:25:48
Speaker
uh maybe i'm not sure maybe i think i think it might be i think it's got to be referential it's in that movie it's in that movie and i love those movies like the christopher no one badminton or some of the yeah best action one time i went to a medieval fair with some friends of mine And ah one of my friends got way too involved with the tournament combat and but watched it for maybe a good seven minutes before turning to us and saying, you either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain.
00:26:21
Speaker
And with all earnestly, and I think that's maybe one of the funniest, i like the degree to which he got involved in this fake tournament. And it just became so dramatic for him. meeting They're out there. I mean, that's like, i think that i think the I think that Maryland has the biggest Renaissance festival in the country or something.
00:26:45
Speaker
uh that's incredible it's uh it's a lot it's something i mean i delivered pizzas to that place many times i've been in high school once and i like as as i'm like punk rock high schooler it was kind of enjoyable but like also just oh yeah it's completely absurd the the best yeah the best way to go into those scenarios is just just eat up, like, take in as much as is enjoyable for you and ignore just anything else. Yeah, it is some of the best people watching of all time. Yes, exactly. yeah I want to return to a time where people were killed for because they could do magic.
00:27:26
Speaker
And I think that that's nice. I mean, I think the stocks are great. Well, because nobody has any commitment to values anymore. You know, nobody really... That's a perfect direction for us to take. Yeah. Nobody hates witches like they used to. Nobody's really, nobody has the zeal. And that's what we're about. We've had a witch lover on the program. Shout out. Shout out to CG Burnett. You're a wonderful witch.
00:27:52
Speaker
Well, you need to you need to tell them now that you're taking a hard pivot. And we're we're canceling your show. Yeah, I have way too many woo friends to like take a hard stance about this kind of thing. I'm just yeah, I will say the I would like regular tournament style combat ah to come into the because really, I think that that is the commitment that football wants to make.
00:28:19
Speaker
But does not. It needs to go the extra mile. It needs to be jousting. Yeah, yeah the official state's Board of Maryland. Right, exactly. It needs to be that Taylor Swift is not going out.
00:28:31
Speaker
with an NFL player, it needs to be that she's going out with a professional jouster. Yes, because that's that's really, I think, what she wants. This is why, to Connor Chagrin, i I do love hockey. I do not keep up with it currently, but like as a sport, it's the closest we get to jousting, I think.
00:28:50
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And ah like, I also have a tangential commitment to rugby for the same. Okay. Yeah, true. Yeah. Yeah. I did not in the, in my part of the South, we didn't rugby was not a fake lacrosse. I mean, unfortunately, it's been co-opted and destroyed by whites, but used to go hard indigenous game. Yeah. Have you seen the fucking drawings of that shit? They're like running off the walls. I didn't grow up with a cross. So it's like totally foreign to me.
00:29:20
Speaker
It's like, it's easy to understand, I think, from yes for sure. not Not like hockey, really. From my experience, it took a it it took a kind of suburban ah slant. From certain of my experience, it went a little, went a little domestic. And and then basically anybody named Grayson growing up for me, as in, you know, they they they were playing across. Except for my Grayson, the singer of my band, who is a tennis pro. Yes, okay. hey i love those
00:29:55
Speaker
What? He plays tennis? Yeah, he's he's a tennis professional at ah like a big neighborhood. He's like the huge. Yeah, but he's- That's like a very imposing tennis partner. Yeah, yeah. He's like six-five. like That's what I'm saying. He's really big. He's really huge and very nimble.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yes, very simple indeed. Shout out Grayson. Yeah, hell yeah. No, I think that's i think that's a great detail. You should be leading with that. but yeah That's fucking sick. Yeah, other other than that, Grayson, probably every other motherfucker named that name is a false question. Yeah, I could list any number of... if it's it's If it's a name that starts with a B-R, you know probably...
00:30:39
Speaker
you know, Brady Mathis. Brady, Braden Brison, you know. All of that shit. Totally. All of that shit. Well, it sucks though, because it's like the origin of it is pure. Right, exactly. It's good that that is possible. It's compassionate. Yeah, I mean, it's extremely expensive. The lacrosse hall of fame is at Johns Hopkins University in beautiful Baltimore, Maryland. But it's like,
00:31:09
Speaker
Why? No, that's like that school costs like $60,000 a semester. Yeah, no, thanks. Hard pass. Hard pass. Yeah, yeah. ah So Hunter, you are a writer. Yeah. um When did you and kind of how did you start? Was there anything like that you can think of in particular that inspired you?
00:31:35
Speaker
Yeah, i so whenever I was growing up, my mom ah was writing and stuff constantly, but she wrote largely stories like about our family.
00:31:51
Speaker
um and then like self-publish those and then sold those. And I think ah early on seeing that and also being a reader of like fantasy books, you know, um Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, was but like oh yeah those two yeah yeah those two like series for me, I think as a kid, I really wanted to write fantasy stories. Did you ever ah read Madeleine Longley?
00:32:21
Speaker
Uh, as I don't recognize what you're saying right now, I would say no. Uh, are equal in time. Um, no, no, I know. I actually, we read the first one in class. Um, we were in a recall in class and time for class. And then I didn't read any others after that, but Yeah, the her and C.S. Lewis are kind of linked in my mind, because that's what happened in my childhood. Christian magic. Yeah, Christian magic. yeah Like, somewhat vaguely Christian fantasy? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think, and that's what, you know, and obviously that was like my environment growing up. And so I wanted to... Harry Potter was banned in my household.
00:33:06
Speaker
So interesting that was kind of where that was kind of where I was. And then, you know, an adulthood ended up going back and participating in the Harry Potter series. Whoa. You know, so it took me a while. I actually how old are you? I am 28.
00:33:24
Speaker
Yeah, so they're not far from Connor aggressive. I mean, I think ah you are. Yeah, very good. Thanks. Yeah, I'm 20. I actually forget often how old I am because I i forget to keep track after like 21. I just so periodically, especially as I near my birthday, I often forget. And so but I think now that I'm approaching 30, I should actually i think i'll be better about remembering it because i'll have like a hard reset of like a full decade yeah um so wait when the easy year 1990 right so it's easy to know yeah but i never you let into this but when is your birthday
00:34:06
Speaker
My birthday is December 7th, 1995. I remember Pearl Harbor, baby. Yeah. Pearl Harbor. Yeah. I actually, I think I had a friend who used to make me a Pearl Harbor drink, um a themed drink on my birthday. um But I've, she moved away. Sounds like it's like snow get along with. What?
00:34:29
Speaker
That sounds like a person that I would get along with. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. and And also her birthday too was on ah the day that the USS Maine went down. Remember the Maine, baby. Remember the Maine. And so, yeah, she would actually drink and remember the Maine, which is the drink. But yeah, it was like like birthday drinks were kind of kind of her deal, I guess. so Um, but anyway, but yeah, um, that's my birthday. That's how I support that. Yeah. I, I am not an astrology currently, so I didn't go any farther into it. Was just curious. Yeah, I am. I'll tell you, I'm a Virgo rising. Um, no, I'm serious. I am for anybody. interested Even though no, nobody asked. right you know my bands out there let's
00:35:17
Speaker
My best friend, Eleanor, shout out Elle, is going to be so happy about this. Okay, yeah, so if I'm remembering. We're talking about it at length. Yeah, this is for Eleanor. So the, yeah I am a Sagittarius, and a Virgo Rising, and a Capricorn Moon.
00:35:36
Speaker
Um, if, if, and I don't think that means anything. So does that mean anything to you? I'm not knocking it. I'm not shitting on it. i'm Not at all. Like it's hella interesting to me. tell yeah pises I feel like the Pisces is, uh, maligned as I use the word earlier. I'm a Scorpio. I am also maligned. Here's, here's what I'll tell you about Scorpios though. Scorpios get consistent. Well, you got getting consistently included in memory. memory Yeah, if there's a meme to be had about astrology, Scorpios are included. Sagittarius are seldom in the memes and I think it's because they're kind of magnanimous and open and adventurous and I think for most people that kind of archetype is very boring and it's hard to make kind of
00:36:27
Speaker
cutting or interested in sarcasmus. Yeah, you can't make any pronouncements about it. And I think that's kind of the thing where people are like, oh, well, if you look at a horoscope, it could be anything. I think that that's partly true of Sagittarius, like the way that it's interpreted. People feel that way about Sagittarius. I think that they think that kind of you know, they don't really want to deal with it because it's not. For me, I actually, I have always thought that it's very cool that I'm a Sagittarius, which is a very Sagittarius thing of me to say. um Yeah. and That's Aaron too though. I mean, yeah. Is yeah is Aaron a Sagittarius as well? Okay. Yeah. So it's it's very, okay. Yeah. It's ah it's a very like, um I don't think it's very like self-centered, but it's very like self-conscious and like,
00:37:15
Speaker
ah very pleased to be the self and so there's that for the rising i think that the if i'm interpreting this right i think that the rising is like how you ah want to kind of appear to other people um And then I want to say the moon. I'm i'm not going to go into the moon because I don't really know quite ah ah much about it. I do recognize the virgowness as someone who is more analytical if I'm and if I'm remembering this correctly. um I consider myself more analytical and like the way that I process things I often feel that I'm doing it very logically but I'm also very governed by my emotions which I think is kind of the rest of my chart. Right. So I think that it's very like an adventurous person who considers themselves to be very logical. You're an introverted extrovert. It puts that out there. Yes. But you're actually, you're actually on the inside, very swayed by your emotions. Very, you know, so what about this? What about this? So and I grew up with this guy, Nelson Edwards. Okay. He was born on 4 20, 1990. Oh, wow.
00:38:35
Speaker
Yeah. You know who else is born on 420, Adolf Hitler. And so they are not the same. They have many differences. And I don't know ah that they have much in common. It's because it's because of the time. you will right Because there's the other stuff. Right, exactly. You have to be different. I see. different Yeah. Unless you were if you were born on the same day, but at the same same time as Adolf Hitler,
00:39:04
Speaker
in history, that might be a problem. But luckily, there are a few other factors at play, I would imagine. And that's coming from someone who knows virtually nothing about that. So, so you know, but I would i would guess Um, he is not on, on the war path, your friend. Well, I think, uh, I think he's an investment banker. So oh he might be, am i z and sadly the actual four 20 has no implications on him. seemingly Yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, uh, I don't think that Hitler smoked very much weed at all. Yeah. I don't think so. If ever, you know, yeah hopefully your friend does.
00:39:50
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what it is. Since we're talking about Nelson, like Nelson loved smoking weed. It was like I was just drinking instead, you know, but he finally got a piece. I don't know how he got it like from the Internet. Like he was forging things, you know, he was like 15. So he has the bowl. He's unwrapping it right. And we just hear it shatter. And and it's like That's just how it has to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's always an aluminum can of some sort around. so Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's always the possibility. yeah The tenor is indispensable and it it's about the ingenuity of the human spirit. True.
00:40:38
Speaker
ah huter What is your writing process like?
Poetic Craft and Inspirations
00:40:42
Speaker
like yes it Is it paper pen paper and pen? Is it computer? Is it typewriter? Your fucking notepad on your phone. nine yeah target good You freestyle into the voicemail. You got no idea. I have done that before if I'm driving.
00:41:01
Speaker
I have done a voice memo ah before, and that sucks the most. yeah that's that's That's the worst way ah for me to do it. I really would prefer not to, but I have had to resort to that just because an idea will hit me.
00:41:18
Speaker
um Most of the time, the way that I work, every I think every modern poet probably has a notes app that is just kind of full to brimming with inspiration and ah with little notes. And they're going to update it and destroy it too. Yes, so that is what I think that this is what, this is where I think people, but especially like amateur poets and ah people who are doing it and like wanting to like write more seriously. I think that getting it out of the notes app I think is key to yeah to kind of really actually getting into the editing and real work of of making poetry. um I think for me, I realized that a lot of my
00:42:10
Speaker
poems and stuff, i I realized that when I was writing poetry, my lines ended up being really short. And I was like, why can't I write long lines? like Why can't I vary the lineation of this? And it was because I was doing everything on my notes app. It was literally restricted. That's funny. yeah i mind The formatting of a bunch of my shit is destroyed because they ah they, whatever, they like put um tabs, sure right? yeah So you can't, yeah, so the lines don't enjamb. Yes, exactly. Yeah, so what I do is I, at the end of every week, I actually came up with this process of, it's not very complicated, where I'll take all of my notes out, notes, whether that be fragments of poetry, whether that be inspirations, quotes, memories, what have you.
00:43:06
Speaker
take all of that, put it in a Google Doc. And then from that Google Doc, I have two Google Docs. I have one that is poem notes, and then I have one that is drafts.
00:43:18
Speaker
And drafts is when the poem actually forms like a real cogent thing. Like if it has images, if it has ah a general, it doesn't have to have a specific narrative. Sometimes it's non-narrative, sometimes it's more lyrical, but ah if it has a narrative,
00:43:36
Speaker
Sense to it if it has a flow to it um If it has kind of a beginning and end Then that can't those notes can then go into drafts because that then constitutes Even if it's a really poorly written poem, right? Even if it needs a lot of editing it can then constitute an actual poem so for me that's my process of I go in at the end of each week and take everything into docs, decide what kind of stays and what goes, put the things that stay into the drafts. And then from there, that's when I begin editing. and So like if I'm editing,
00:44:14
Speaker
I'll typically start with, I don't do lineation kind of where the lines end and where they begin. I don't do that till later. But a lot of what I'll start with is just making sure that like the language um is as good as it can get in terms of like word choice, right? Like um I have this problem where if I'm writing, I say to, I'm too, I generalize too much and say, you know, like ah there's a feeling that's like this or whatever, you know, and then Um, yeah being new ways to say what that thing is like and and reframing it and maybe taking out the portions that say, well, I think that this is like this, you know, that's the whole thing. Yeah. That's the whole fucking thing of it. Right. It's like trying to distill down into better and more, I guess, concise, occasionally concise.
00:45:06
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I think that right now getting down to kind of a sparse language, there's a poet that I like right now, who's her name's Elizabeth Willis. And she writes really sparse, really kind of oblique lines that are kind of at times hard to decipher. But I think for me, the language choice in her work is so like profound. And so there's this thing in in poetry, um where that called line economy, right? Which is a bay basically saying like, are you using the words that you're using as efficiently as possible, right? And it's kind of the thing that separates poem poetry from other stuff. Pros can kind of go on at length a little bit, like it can kind of expound and explain and kind of tell you what it's about and so on.
00:45:56
Speaker
poetry, if it's explaining what it is to you, it then kind of becomes prose, right? So it's if you are scaling back and being frugal with your lines in some way, and that's not to say that you have seldom few lines, it doesn't mean that you have short lines, um but just saying that whenever you're using a line, each line by itself is doing work in some regard, like it is furthering something um and it is doing so doing so efficiently. um I think for me that's what I'm like seeking whenever I'm editing. It's like can I get this line down to um saying what it needs to say with the most efficient use word use possible and can I get these lines down to
00:46:45
Speaker
Like, can I, can I, not short, but like, can I delete lines, right? Where am I, where are redundancies? Where can I take these things out? Trying to make it lean and mean, whatever. and whatever god Yeah, exactly. Whatever it is they want to use for it. Make it athletic. Make it, yeah. My mom is a writer, as I have talked about on this show, of course. um And her thing is,
00:47:11
Speaker
economy of language, basically, she deciphers doctors language ah for like, lay people, basically. nice Yeah. And so that's like, her entire career is says is sort of deciphering things. She's a poet, like that's has always been what she um I guess urges to anyone who comes here with poetry is like, you got to make it more to the point like that's the Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think that there are ways to linger. I think that you're lingering though has to be towards a certain effect, you know, like, there's a there's a
00:47:54
Speaker
a poem a poem by Robert Lowell, i who's like one of the greatest dead American poets. But um he wrote this poem called Skunk Hour. And there's a line in it where he gets to kind of the point of the poem, and it's and it's sort of in the middle of the poem. And he says, ah the point is he says, my mind is not right.
00:48:19
Speaker
right? And that that is essentially what he is trying to get at. But the whole rest of the poem involves these kind of vignettes of him like kind of ah like creeping around this, I think it's an island, he's creeping around an island kind of in in New England, right? And he goes up to pull that this point um where some kids are like making out in cars or like having sex in cars and stuff and he kind of details how he like lingers there like he's not being like a peeping tom or anything I guess but he kind of lingers kind of describes these ways that he's kind of pouting and and kind of you know just moping around this island um and then it it kind of in the middle there's this like my mind's not right
00:49:08
Speaker
uh line and i think that that's like really earned like he spends a lot of time wasting time in the rest of the poem i think um but the way that he wastes time it indicates exactly what he's trying to say with this other line and i think that that's kind of like what i mean when i am saying like i want everything to be of use you know not everything has to be the most poignant thing in the world uh but if i'm trying to get to some point i want it to to indicate the right things, to get to that ah that emotional space or that emotional weight. Out of curiosity, how many poems have you published, I guess, is the right word? I believe at this time, it's like three. didn't like how many How many just estimated do you think you've written? like since more More like, not you know back in the day, but like since you thought
00:50:06
Speaker
An approximation would be fine. Yeah, like, hey, this is what I want to do in my life. We don't have the answer to this question. And we're not going to say, actually, you fuck. I have I actually have a pretty good estimate of the amount of poems that I've written in the last like two years, because my drafts document only goes back about two years. And I actually have a page break per poem.
00:50:32
Speaker
And I have, so basically the amount of pages that I have is the amount of poems that I have. So currently, and I've deleted a lot. He's pulling it up live. He's pulling it up live. I actually went back this last month and deleted a lot of them because I just realized I was like, these, I had, I had a depressive episode where I thought these are not poems. Yeah. There were some that I deleted for good, but the amount that I have, I feel good about.
00:51:01
Speaker
um i currently have drum roll sorry this is a long drum roll it's this should give you some indication this is how long it's taking to load yeah yeah i appreciate it i have 35 poems working right now i have i have 35 that I am actively working on. in If I go back to my poem notes, which is somewhat delineated into into distinct poems. Your favorite poem? What? Do you have a favorite poem? I do have a poem, a favorite poem. You don't? No, I do. I do. Yeah, so I figured you might. have
00:51:59
Speaker
I have one that I like right now, and then I have one that is like my all-time fave. I read it at my wedding. Yeah, let's hear it. I mean, I don't mean read it. I'm saying, what is it? You can read it if you want. Do you have a current memory?
00:52:18
Speaker
Sure, sure. No, I have not committed any poems to memory because I have sinned against poems. I really ought to. So, real quick, back to, I have 42 other poems also. I think that's i think it's so funny and it's like such a funny question to ask, but it's also like,
00:52:39
Speaker
ah That's a lot. It is a lot. Yeah. i'm I'm working a lot on it and I want to write very broadly. You also have a full-time job. but More than a full-time job. Yes. i yeah and so I do this in the in the hours that work for me. The wee hours. You have to do it when you can. I know that Anne Sexton and Toni Morrison used to work on either end of 4 a.m.
00:53:06
Speaker
So Anne Sexton would write from midnight to 4 a.m. And then Tony Morrison would write from 4 a.m. to like 6 a.m. and so on, which is incredible considering the amount of like the body of work that they um created in that short amount of time. But that was just like when their kids were asleep, you know. um And so you you get it in whenever you can. But um my favorite poem is having a coke with you.
00:53:37
Speaker
ah frank o'hara who sohara Sorry? That's why I had this Polish English professor, and he would say Frank O'Hara. Oh, really? Nice. Well, hey nico erara is okay lu yeah. yeah ah But I, um I read his poem, Having a Coke with You. He's of the New York School of Poets, which was a group of poets in New York, obviously, during like the fifties, I believe it was, yeah, fifties to sixties. And they're like, i included in that would be like James Skyler, John Ashbury. Frank O'Hara is one of my favorites, ah partly because of like his accessibility. I think that he's very good to read and very like enjoyable to read and very easy. Like there's not anything that you're going to really like miss.
00:54:35
Speaker
whenever you read a Frank O'Hara poem, he wrote his poems, speaking of like when people write poems, he wrote his poems like during his lunch break. He has this collection called Lunch Poems, it's like kind of famous. yeah And so he would write it during his lunch break, um just kind of milling about New York. And um I find this stuff like just really romantic, a lot of it does have to do with, a lot of it is about romance, a lot of it's about being gay in New York in the 50s,
00:55:05
Speaker
But he, um man, I just like, I love his stuff because it's so like in the moment of exactly what he's trying to describe, he just totally goes in on kind of whatever it is he's talking about. He's like fully committed to ah like describing a thing comprehensively. um And I actually, can I read it?
00:55:27
Speaker
Yeah, totally. Okay. This is an apocalypse studs first, ladies and gentlemen. I'm excited. Nobody's read a poem on your podcast. Nobody. No, I think it's, I think it's funny actually. Like, because that would be fitting, but here we are. I love that. I love so much. I, this is fantastic. Okay. This is. first poet with that on I think, I mean, Sam Kerr, but other than that, other writers, but yeah, first, lovers first, first live read. Yeah, let's do it. Um, having a Coke with you by Franco Hera.
00:55:58
Speaker
Having a coke with you is even more fun than going to San Sebastian, Iruin, Hende, Biarritz, Bayoun, or being sick to the stomach on the Traversa de Gracia in Barcelona, partly because in your orange shirt,
00:56:17
Speaker
you look like a better, happier Saint Sebastian, partly because of my love for you, partly because of your love for yogurt, partly because of the fluorescent orange tulips around the birches, partly because of the secrecy our smiles take on before people in statuary. It is hard to believe when I'm with you that there can be anything as still, as solemn, as unpleasantly definitive as statuary, when right in front of it In the warm New York four o'clock light we are drifting back and forth between each other like a brute tree breathing through its spectacles. And the portrait show seems to have no faces in it at all, just paint. You suddenly wonder why in the world anyone ever did them.
00:57:03
Speaker
I look at you and I would rather look at you than all the portraits in the world except possibly for the Polish writer occasionally in any way it's in the Frick which thank heavens you haven't gone to yet so we can go together for the first time.
00:57:20
Speaker
And the fact that you move so beautifully more or less takes care of futurism. Just as at home, I never think of the nude descending a staircase or at a rehearsal, a single drawing of Leonardo or Michelangelo that used to wow me. And what does all that research of the impressionists do them when they never got the right person to stand near the tree, when the sun sank, or for that matter, Marino Marini, when he didn't pick the rider as carefully as the horse?
00:57:50
Speaker
it seems they were all cheated of some marvelous experience which is not going to go wasted on me which is why i'm telling you about it that's all fucking nice and it's yeah i love it so much i i have i've read that poem a lot and i really rarely read it out loud and so i've not learned any of the pronunciations of any of the but that was so good that was like the best part of the whole fucking thing Like this, you know as someone that really to my Whatever loves coming-of-age movies and stories and things like that is kind of reminiscent of that kind of yeah so yeah, yeah, beautiful just like so that's like Almost all the good albums are about a certain time in life. Yeah, like I love to
00:58:43
Speaker
Yeah and it's it's so good too because it it also it it just deals with kind of everything is filtered through like his personal experience. You're kind of every time that you're brought into a Frank O'Hara poem you're brought into kind of this intimate space with him at the time and he's talking to you and it feels very like conversational and inclusive and like come let me let me tell you about this thing or like I'm bringing you into a moment and I think that that is just like I think that that's what makes Franco Harris poem poems fantastic for me and really instructive, you know, um I never want to be obtuse, or, you know, oblique so much that I like.
00:59:25
Speaker
people aren't coming into the poem, Glenn, and then I'm not bringing people in and saying, hey, look at look at this thing. Like, if I'm writing poems... Because it is exclusionary sometimes. Right. Yeah. like And that's fucking wack. Like, I don't like that shit. I saw that thing that you posted about, like, ah grammar Nazi being a real Nazi. Yeah. I was like, ha ha. Yeah. That's a good way of talking about it. Because, like, I used to be a fucking prick. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm not like that anymore. Yeah. I didn't mean to agree just then, but I mean, I... No, no, no, understood, understood. But it's like, what does it matter? You know what they're talking about. Everything that you're doing is about classism, basically. And what I love too, especially like if you look at that poem, like none of the lines are punctuated.
01:00:14
Speaker
So like all of the, and they're really, really long and discursive. So just to like everything is just so indulgent and it and it kind of ah is very easy to like come into. And yeah, I think to learn to write like that and to learn to write in a way that is caught up. And I think you're both doing justice to the audience and both doing justice to the audience and your subject by doing that. You know, by by whenever I write about my dog,
01:00:46
Speaker
um I want people to come into the experience of my dog. you know I don't just want to kind of give you something about my dog, you know like as enjoyable as it might be for you. I want that to be something where like I am bringing you into that because I love that dog, you know or I care about that experience, or I want to do justice to that experience for some reason. That's why I'm including people. it's like I am becoming like a medium of exchange for people and for the subject. um And so like for me, that's why I just, I love those poems.
01:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, I'm just picturing this guy, Peter Griazda, who's my professor at school. He just like, he had a really thick Polish accent and he would read all these poems in class beautifully. Yeah. Perfectly. Yeah. But he just had this amazing voice, you know? I love ah whenever you can get someone who is a bilingual poet,
01:01:47
Speaker
um to like read things. I think he spoke, I think he speaks four languages. That's incredible. and aqua A wool. person. But yeah, anytime that you can even poems that are not in translation yet listening to poems, even in other languages is still such an enjoyable experience. For me, there's just whatever someone's bringing to it, it can just like totally transform the piece. There's one by one poet Ilya Kaminsky, who wrote a book that is slipping
01:02:22
Speaker
my mind. Oh, Deaf Republic is the name of that book. Really incredible. But every time that I hear him read, he has a thick accent. um And I he's from Ukraine. And so ah he has a ah thick, thick accent. And it's really beautiful to like hear him read his poems, especially like in English and stuff like um the cadence that he brings to it is really intriguing.
01:02:52
Speaker
Sorry, now I'm just amazing to thinking. Well, it's amazing to see people read because I think you have to hear it read sometimes and then sometimes you have to read it yourself. So it's like. And I think a lot of times like being able to read those things out loud, I think it's so important to read out loud.
01:03:10
Speaker
um so that you get some, so because every part of the poem ah is communicating ah something to you. And I think that that's what I what i like about poetry as an art form is that every iota and atom of it is so geared towards trying to bring you towards something or bring something to you. And I think that reading poetry out loud and to yourself is part of that. Like the exchange that you have whenever you're reading it, either out loud to yourself or hearing it read, that is something that informs the poem as much as any other kind of stroke of pen or whatever have you, whatever parts went into the like the machinery of that poem. The the reading of those poems, that's part of the the machinery. like But yeah.
01:04:02
Speaker
Yeah, so important, so cool. It's great that you have that experience. i I'm i' am so glad that that is your entry to Frank O'Hara. In one
Education, Style, and Personal Expression
01:04:14
Speaker
semester, I went from like doing ah political science to just deciding to add an English degree just to read poetry basically because he was like he was a genius he was a really a genius um and so it was amazing to hear like i don't know people talk about well so me to hear me talk about the class war and what have you these sorts of things that are that are happening like when we're reading The Jungle what is going on in The Jungle what is going on in Upton Sinclair's The Jungle huh it's happening for one reason alone
01:04:51
Speaker
And so to talk about that in his class, especially with his like background and like living under communism. right um Fascinating. Yeah. Love that. I want to ask you one clothing question and then I guess we should ah we should conclude. whatever But so a lot of people, the men mostly are scared of wearing jewelry.
01:05:21
Speaker
Um, we're wondering, you are a jewelry adherent. Yeah. Oh yeah. A jewelry aficionado and a non, i I wouldn't say like in an annoying way, like in a pretentious way, just seems natural. So like, what's up? How did you manage that? I love to wear jewelry. I like, um, for me, as with any style thing for me,
01:05:49
Speaker
and And that goes for writing, that goes for clothing, whatever. um Yeah, I'm saying we have to do a part two now. style that's like the fucking That's the question, right? Well, i'm ah i'm ah here's ah here's what I'll say. I feel i need very simple schema.
01:06:06
Speaker
for understanding the world. And so if I can come up with one way of understanding things and then apply it way too broadly to more than one category, then i I'll be very happy. so like So it makes my thinking a lot easier that way. so But i whenever I'm doing style, i want to I want it to be placey.
01:06:30
Speaker
And I want it to be specific. I want it to to be of a specific time and place and communicate something about who I am and who I want to be and what I find valuable. And I want it to be specific to my experience and where I'm at. So for me, one of the things that I currently am, I have a very small stack, as the as you say, but it's it's I have a spoon ring on one pinky.
01:06:59
Speaker
And then I have a turquoise ring on the other pinky. And for me, I've been wanting a spoon ring for a long time. I remember my ah great-grandmother. I see, I had never seen one of those before. i really are You see, okay, cool. Yeah, no, they are they are kind of common to this area. And that's actually one of the reasons that I wanted one is it's kind of a staple of like your great-grandmother's closet. It's a very easy way to like have a silver ring on you because, you know,
01:07:29
Speaker
Forks and stuff are made of silver, you know or can be or are and they're very easy to come by It's a really easy to way to get your hands on some silver um And so taking it bending it around, you know forming it into a ring. It's a very cost-effective way to have a silver ring um and so it's like my great-grandmother had one I think my I had a grandmother who had one and and a very matrilineal thing, actually, now that I'm thinking about it. Dude, that's so fucking tight. I saw that, and I was like, I got to get one of those. You got to get one. I got that one for $20. Is it just a spoon like bent? it is yeah It's sawn down and smoothed down on one end so that it doesn't like you know hurt you. But yeah, it's essentially sized to your fingers. Yeah, is this known to you? Is this a so is a southern?
01:08:21
Speaker
thing? I don't know. I've just seen them forever. I've never seen them. Greens, bracelets, you know. We'll also say you can get them on eBay pretty easily. If you're looking for someone, you should be able to get one. A new quest. A new quest is open. I highly recommend. So I have that and obviously that for me feels very placey and very specific.
01:08:43
Speaker
And then for my other turquoise ring, I actually that was given to me by my wife, Mackenzie. So it was her see ah grand shout out Mackenzie. It was her grandmother's ring. So ah so that's also very important to me. It kind of represents like my and not that every piece of jewelry has to be significant, but it it represents essentially my my inclusion in their family and also uh a connection like to the past you know and also another matrilineal thing uh for me like i i really feel that with jewelry i actually want more jewelry from the women in my family like my grandmothers and um because i it's really it just makes me feel uh connected to them and that none of the men in my family have had jewelry
01:09:36
Speaker
So so like ah right the men if the men in my family did, I would want their jewelry. But you know like I want my mother's mother's jewelry and my mother's mother's jewelry. And like and I actually i think about that a lot. And I'm actually constantly trying to get more of it. Yeah.
01:09:52
Speaker
ah no yeah it's like it's For me, it's just so important. um like It makes me feel grounded you know in and who I am and where I'm from in a way that is really tangible for me. like I think that whenever I see that turquoise ring, it's not there's really not a point where I don't know exactly like that that's what that is. you know and uh and i have some other rings too that uh i i have a lot of like i have some religious rings i think the from way back when my ah evangelicals are really obsessed with rings
01:10:33
Speaker
Oh, I've got something for you at the end of this. but Okay, okay. Purity rings, promise rings. Yeah, like, yeah. So I think that for me, there's like, there's also I think that's how I got into rings, if I'm being honest, not that I didn't have those specifically, but a lot of my friends had rings and i was like i want that seems dope like i don't i don't have anybody to have a promise ring for and i don't you know uh yeah the ring felt a little dweeby but i was like god like uh rings seem cool and so that's why i said you're gonna slide on a signet ring i perpetually single teenage ass join true love waits
01:11:18
Speaker
Yes, yeah, yeah. I know i never had that. What weight? It's what it sounds like, my man. Oh my god. I was shielded from all this stuff. Dude, you did not go to SuperWow on Jekyll Island, circa 96. That sounds like, you know they have those like pamphlets that explain libertarian ideology? Yeah. SuperWow on Jekyll Island is the name of one of those pamphlets. I gotta fucking say, all of the t-shirts that they sold there, like dorks go crazy over christian t-shirts which i out of oh dude i i do not buy anything religion related unless it's like rasta like i would buy a christian t-shirt you know but uh dude i can i tell you i got i got this so another thing that i got into recently was like grandma t-shirts
01:12:09
Speaker
Oh yeah. So, but one of them, so there was one that I didn't get that I wish that I got now that was kind of, that was sacrilegious. and That was very funny where it was like, when God takes a day off, grandma step in or something. That was like that was like the slogan on it. I was like, oh, that's amazing. But it's a little, it was a little too much at the time, but I do have one that's really metal and it says all, it has like,
01:12:36
Speaker
flowers little baskets like little birds and then uh it has in the center it just says um i put all of my eggs in one basket and i gave that basket to god and then wow and i was like that feels like a very metal sentiment it's very like uh very it's a very intense sentiment at the very degree like i'm just very like bringing that into any situation is very funny so I wear that on occasion, that's a good idea. I feel like toward the end of my like use our youth group you know shenanigans, it was them the- That's an episode title. It was they era where everything looked like the fucking cover of a Creed record. Okay, yes yeah yeah. We know what I'm talking about. this yeah oh yeah
01:13:30
Speaker
super dramatic and like overemphasized like Jesus on a cross but like yeah and also kind of like a guitar yeah yeah yeah not an electric guitar but you know it but it's like a collection t-shirts or whatever yeah yeah yeah likes and I wish I could remember a slogan like three three holes two nails equals whatever and it's just yeah yeah just wild times in the 90s yeah really truly um but we'll get i guess we will have to have you on it for a second time yeah we definitely will we can go deeper into religion politics music
Closing Remarks
01:14:13
Speaker
That's great. i would I would relish that. This has been really a wonderful time. Yeah. Yeah. it's been It's been super fucking fun, man. And good to meet you. Yeah. Great to meet you too. Let's start to wrap up. And we always like to give the guests a chance to shout out whatever they want to their Instagram for you. If you would like people to read your things, please do that. Yeah. But yeah, go for it.
01:14:40
Speaker
I, you can find me hotel salad anywhere um i didn't even fucking talk about hotel salally yeah hotel salad horror show so i'll tell you ah you can find me at Hotel Salad,
01:15:00
Speaker
on Instagram, named after Watergate salad, which was a, which is a salad, a delicacy, southern delicacy, found in many pocklucks, named after the Watergate Hotel.
01:15:16
Speaker
So it is a a hotel salad. But that's my name. You can find me on Instagram. Doing fit checks every once in a while. And really good ones too. Thank you. And you can find any information about ah poetry stuff from me there also. Awesome. Awesome. Well, dude, once again, thank you so much. This has been hella fun. And yeah, you're going to be in the pipeline for a part due not too far from now. I love it.
01:15:44
Speaker
thank you i really appreciate it this has been a blast thank you for letting me talk about my favorite things it's it's fucking all and war or six p m oh yeah um everyone thank you for listening i was on instagram at apaco star colter got you moified
01:16:06
Speaker
oh yeah let's see we did a good job but we did a good job yeah see if the recording works uh and uh yeah one more time i didn't touch it again then anyway anyway uh if you would like to send us an email apocalypse does a
01:16:27
Speaker
why i am I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues. And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Flower. And yeah, see you soon. Sayonara.