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Gen -Z: DId Dating Apps (Capitalism) Ruin Dating?
73 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, we dive into the messy intersections of dating, social media, and capitalism. From the overwhelming choice paralysis on dating apps to the curated perfection of influencer relationships, we explore how modern technology both connects and isolates us. Why are relationships more disposable today? How has capitalism turned love into a commodity? And what language do we need to better articulate our desires in the digital age? Tune in as we break it all down and offer fresh perspectives on building intentional, authentic connections in a hyper-curated world.
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Transcript
Why is Gen Z Unsatisfied with Dating?
00:00:00
Jon McCray Jones
Hey, today on the Fun with Sex podcast, we're going to be discussing why Gen Z seems so unsatisfied with dating. Let me i start with asking you a question.
Do Social Media and Apps Help or Hinder Relationships?
00:00:13
Jon McCray Jones
Do you think that social media and dating apps have kind of hurt or helped relationships for Gen Z or psych question too simple and it's more complex?
The Commodification of Dating Through Algorithms
00:00:28
Jon McCray Jones
I think it's definitely hurt things. um I mean, social media in general, I just feel like humans. I say this as somebody who literally works on social media every day, but I think as humans, we weren't supposed to have access to so many things at once with an algorithm that very tactfully pushes certain content and suppresses other content from you. And I think when you kind of have that understanding of what algorithms do. And you pin that against sexual prospects and dating prospects. It's kind of created this weird commodification of dating where people seem to have access to all these seemingly perfect people that they can lust after. But, you know, it's not real with the way people edit and only post the perfect, most happy moments. so
00:01:26
Jon McCray Jones
Yeah, I think it's definitely hurt things.
Choice Paralysis in Modern Dating
00:01:28
Jon McCray Jones
So like while I think that there is potential for social media and especially dating apps, you know, force of good. I mean, there was like this crazy stat where I think like 50% of young people found their current partner on a dating app. I think that for the general population, dating on social media has been a rigorous and hard
00:01:55
Jon McCray Jones
experiment that definitely needs to be modified. And I think that like the thing you were describing is called choice paralysis. The idea that people have so many options, so many swipes, you have access to more people through dating apps than anyone ever in human history when it comes to like courting and picking a partner.
Evolution of Dating Practices and Increased Options
00:02:20
Jon McCray Jones
And while that may be really good for you may stumble on like the perfect person that or what a person who like is really compatible with you and really forceful with you, there also can be if you get over-sexed rated with options and you can pass on really good people because you always feel that there's somebody better three swipes away. Yeah, and I think when you envision the graph, it's definitely
00:02:49
Jon McCray Jones
a bell curve. you know When we think about dating hundreds upon hundreds of years ago, who did you court and eventually marry? It was pretty much like speaking from a one perspective.
00:03:01
Jon McCray Jones
the guy who had a farm like closest to you and had a son your age and your dad agreed for you guys to get married versus flash forward to like within the past hundred years, you know, cities developed the industrial revolution. So things expanded a lot and we had access to a ton more people to date.
00:03:24
Jon McCray Jones
but now we've kind of reached this point where like you said, it's choice paralysis because there are endless people. I mean, you can cite your Tinder to a whole different city and meet someone and start a long distance relationship without ever really meeting them. And in our parents' days, like long distance would happen if it was like, oh, I was visiting my cousin in San Francisco and I happened to meet a guy and now we're doing long distance.
00:03:53
Jon McCray Jones
This is a very new thing to all of a sudden have access to people all over the world. And I think that like our brains and like our culture hasn't caught up to the idea that we ah people now have so many options available for them to date. And like, I don't know if that's not necessarily a bad thing, the idea that people can find people are more compatible when you're not just stuck to whoever is in your small niche ah smallness community
00:04:23
Jon McCray Jones
we haven't figured out the rules and norms of how to like do this healthily. Yeah. and Well, I think it does become a negative when you think about people's dissatisfaction with dating and their partners and you put it up against social media and all these fake images and people posting their partners doing extravagant things for them. And then people look at what they have and they're like, Oh, you know, maybe I could date someone better when it's like,
00:04:55
Jon McCray Jones
30 years ago, that wasn't a thought that happened until you actually met someone new. I get that. But also think that there's a we do romanticize past relationships. When when you actually like read the journals and writings of people who are stuck in those relationships, they weren't happy either. And I think that there's like a possibility of like dating apps to be something cool. I think the problem is that they're driven by companies whose idea or their profit motive is they need you to be on these dating apps as long as possible. They need you to be dissatisfied so that you pay for the premium. And it'd be different if like the dating apps really worked by grouping people with shared interests and like shared investment in like different aspects of like community and hobbies.
00:05:46
Jon McCray Jones
But more of these apps were like, how do I get you to stay on this app swiping for as long as possible and possibly by ah the premium membership for Unlimited Swipes. And like I think that we never, dating apps were kind of just like thrusting on us. Like I remember being in high school and somebody came here from college and they were like,
00:06:08
Jon McCray Jones
Oh yeah, there's this thing called Tinder and that was 2016. I didn't know, but like, I don't remember hearing about Tinder before 2016. And by the time I was like a sophomore junior in college, 2018, 2019, everybody was on Tinder. And then like by 2020, it was bumble.
Meeting People in Person: Challenges and Constraints
00:06:24
Jon McCray Jones
And we were just never, our generation never got the time to figure out how dating looks with these apps. And I think that like,
00:06:33
Jon McCray Jones
the more that people got used to dating on apps, the less they got used to courting and talking to people in real life. Like, remember there was like a TikTok trend a couple of years ago about like, should you or should you not approach people at bars? And like, I think in a respectful way, that is the space where you flirt. You come up to people and like, you start a little conversation, you see if they're interested in like, we need to bring back tasteful and respectful flirting in third spaces.
00:07:00
Jon McCray Jones
Oh, yeah, I'm not romanticizing relationships with past. I mean, women couldn't get credit cards into the 70s. So for most of history, you were just kind of forced into whatever situation was thrust upon you because that's what you had to do at the time. But I do think dating apps has just completely destroyed the world of dating for our generation. Like you said, there's people where They have no idea how to just ah approach someone in a respectful way. And you know there's nobody really talking about like how to meet people out in the real world because everybody's just dependent on the apps because it's late stage capitalism. That's what's quick. That's what's fast. If I don't want to cook tonight, I get on DoorDash and that's easy. If I want a quick hookup, I get on Tinder. If I just got out of relationship,
00:07:54
Jon McCray Jones
And I want to meet someone new so I don't have to deal with my own feelings. I just get on the dating app so I can meet someone new as quickly as possible instead of, you know, maybe, Oh, a hobby. I really enjoy his reading. Let me join a book club and see if I meet someone with a similar interest as me that way. But people don't want that because that takes time. That takes effort. That takes putting yourself out there in a really,
00:08:21
Jon McCray Jones
vulnerable way. I want to push back on that. I think it's less that people don't want that and more that it's almost impossible to have time to do that under capitalism. I agree. Don't get me wrong. I think that like dating apps do provide a convenient and easy way to meet people without having to go on at the third spaces. But I also think it's really hard to do that when you're working 40 hours a week or you're in college and then you have a part time job and then you have homework.
00:08:50
Jon McCray Jones
And then like, well, when do I have time to meet people? Because I also want to hang out with friends and talk to friends. I think that like dating apps are a byproduct of the lonely epidemic in our society where instead of saying like, Hey, let's fix loneliness by creating more time off more vacation times and creating like third spaces. We mean we should do a podcast on like why partying in nightclubs are so important for like intimacy and sex ah but we need to get people out partying more or drinking more hanging out more socializing book clubs arts and crafts ah coffee shops encourage people to like this is how you flirt tactfully and like this is we created a society that has put so much inhibition
00:09:45
Jon McCray Jones
on prohibitions on meeting people in person between like capitalism but also just like this culture of like why are you talking to me i'm a stranger and i think that we need to like kind of tear down those walls if we're going to like make dating great again i mean yeah that's exactly what i said we're in late stage capitalism and people don't want to they don't wanna have that
Disposable Relationships and Dehumanization
00:10:11
Jon McCray Jones
connection. I mean, so many Gen Z kids literally get on TikTok talking about, I hate that the Trader Joe's cashier talks to me, that's why I don't go to Trader Joe's, they're so weird. And it's like, okay, if you wanna talk about like, I don't think cashiers should be forced to talk to people, sure. But like, there's there's nothing like negative about somebody just being like,
00:10:38
Jon McCray Jones
Oh, I haven't tried this pasta before. I hope it's good. You know, and it's the same thing with like, i I feel like the thing I always hear from people is like, people want to meet someone they really do. But then, you know, again, with people just always wanting something better and being dissatisfied. So many of my people that I talk to that are perpetually single, it's like,
00:11:03
Jon McCray Jones
Oh, I'll meet someone. They're great. They literally check all my boxes. um But there's just not that spark or they just don't do it for me, you know? Yeah. And I think that like that goes back to the paradox of choice where you have just like so many fucking options on dating apps that like you'll never be satisfied. It's just like when you go to a grocery store and you have like 30 different options of the same cheese and you're just like, Oh, which one do I pick out? I think that like the other issue that
00:11:34
Jon McCray Jones
can Like the fact that like dating apps versus like meeting people in person is like the idea of disposable relationships and Like the epidemic of ghosting is something that like sure did ghosting happen before the rise of good dating apps Yes, that I'm not the same, right? No Because like if I meet you at a shared third space, we're both invested in the third space. We're both invested in like the people surrounding us in the third space. So there's less likely for me to just see you as like another swipe that I can just stop talking to whenever I get bored of you or like whenever you stop getting entertained. And I think that like that's a big problem with dating apps too is that like the process of so many people and the fact that everybody is just a blank profile, there's like a process of dehumanization that goes on.
00:12:22
Jon McCray Jones
yeah You forget that the person on the other side of the phone has feelings, emotions, cares that may be invested in this conversation. And this idea of again, of hyper individualization, meaning that like you dehumanize and you don't have empathy for the other person versus when you meet people and share the third spaces. You don't want to look, no one wants to look like the asshole who treated the other person bad. So you're more likely to treat relationships with care.
00:12:50
Jon McCray Jones
And I think that's another thing that like a lot of people are missing with like online dating. Yeah. And I think, you know, when you look at our parents' generation, and the most common way they would meet someone is it was a friend of a friend. You know, maybe you met them at an event or your friend set you up, but you know, that would be kind of seen as insanely fucked up if you started talking to a friend of a friend and they decided they weren't interested and they just like,
00:13:16
Jon McCray Jones
completely, like if that were to happen back then people would be kind of like, Oh, okay. Wow. That's like, you know, very
Convenience vs. Effort in Dating
00:13:24
Jon McCray Jones
fucked up. Yeah. That's very rude of him to just like completely do that like discard you like that without giving an explanation. Um, and yeah, it's really, it feels like people, like you said, with this view of the strangers on dating apps as disposable, you see it a lot with the effort they put into where it's like,
00:13:45
Jon McCray Jones
you know, again, looking at past examples, you see someone at a bar, you're like, Hey, you start talking to them. You probably spend the whole night hanging out and talking. And then if you're both into it, hopefully it leads to something afterwards versus like, now I would just get these guys on dating apps that are like, want to come over as the first message or like, what are you doing? And it's like, if you want, like,
00:14:13
Jon McCray Jones
sex to just throw up at your door like maybe hire a sex worker like you can put in a little bit more effort than that. No, I completely agree that like courting is an issue and effort and I think that it goes back to the idea that well, I can just put an effort for this one person or I can shoot 100 people the same DM and like try my luck and I think that like I wonder how this experience is in like queer dating worlds and like lesbian or like gay men or like gender queer circles, because like this conversation is pretty cis, hetero presenting, like cis men, cis woman gear. And like, I wonder like how courting and stuff like that works and like dating apps and other spaces. Because I do think that we may be like need to redefine gender roles when it comes to like taking the first move. It may be like tear down the idea that like,
00:15:12
Jon McCray Jones
one demographic is responsible for courting the other. And like, both parties put in an equal effort when it comes to like starting new dynamics and relationships. Again, like not excusing the guys that you're saying. saying that like they if you're If you're interested in seeing another person as a human being, because I think just texting somebody, do you want to have sex tonight? You're objectifying them. You're dehumanizing them. you Even if like the other person's into the casual sex, you're not into them as a person. You just want to like get your dick wet tonight.
00:15:42
Jon McCray Jones
But in a greater scheme of like having conversations around dating, maybe moving into like a modern dating world means that like we redefined what flirting looks like and who makes the first move and like how we show interest in the role of relationship and also like how we communicate around sex. Because I think that's like a big issue when you look at dating apps that A lot of people are there for different reasons and no one communicates that. Yeah. There's some people who are looking for exclusive monogamous relationships. There are people who are looking to date and form a relationship that may not be exclusively monogamous, but like, Hey, let's date. Let's hang out. Let's see where things are going. There's people who are like, you're talking about her like, Hey, I just want to have sex tonight. And like, I don't care about the person I'm having sex with. This is solely a effort to like.
00:16:41
Jon McCray Jones
get laid as soon as possible. And then you have people who like self-admittedly are on dating apps just because they enjoy the attention. They enjoy being flooded with. And I think that like nothing necessarily none of those options are a bad reason to be on the dating app per se. But I think that like we need to be a better, excuse me, as a society about communicating about those things.
00:17:06
Jon McCray Jones
Well, I think there's also another category, which is a huge chunk of people who get on the dating apps and they tell people one thing, but it's actually the other. They say, Oh, I'm open to friends with benefits. When really they want a relationship or there's people where they say, I want a relationship. And then they just string people along cause it's consistent sex. And that's what they actually want it. And yeah. And I think that's why we need to like,
00:17:37
Jon McCray Jones
as a society, give people the different relationship models and encourage people that like, this is how you communicate what you want. There are people who are, who want the same as you want out there. I mean, the reality is there's always going to be people who try to manipulate emotions in order to get sex. And like, I think that those people are pariahs and sadly, I think if you have a space like a dating app, there's not a lot you can do about them.
Motivations Behind Using Dating Apps
00:18:04
Jon McCray Jones
But I do think that like,
00:18:07
Jon McCray Jones
If we can, if society can find a way to normalize wanting casual sex and how to communicate around that and like wanting an exclusive monogamous relationship or normalizing that like, Hey, you and this person that can date and like not necessarily be as close to the, give people these different relationship models. And even like if the apps can even like, I don't know if they have this, haven't been on dating apps for a long time, but like if they can add like what am I looking for? Is that a thing on dating apps?
00:18:36
Jon McCray Jones
I think so, like your interest, but of course it's like people aren't truthful. I feel like the thing I agree with is definitely I think a huge portion of people are on there just for the validation. yeah you know It's like a compulsive thing the same way scrolling on TikTok is where your brain is just trying to get that dopamine hit of someone matching with you. And it's an even bigger dopamine hit if it's somebody who's like,
00:19:04
Jon McCray Jones
very conventionally attractive and people just endlessly swipe and build up these matches and everybody's like, Oh, why do people never message me when I match with them? Like that's why a lot of people just want that validation. I mean, I also feel like going back to what you're, what we were saying before is that like some people, sometimes you just get overwhelmed with the amount of matches that you have. And again, like that paradox of choice,
00:19:30
Jon McCray Jones
Is that like maybe you do want to find a partner, but when you have to respond to like 15 matches, yeah how much capacity do you have to do that? And like, I don't know how you fix that problem. And like, I don't know if you can, but I think that like the biggest thing that we can do is like get people off of dating apps and meeting more in person. And I think that like the idea that like dating apps are a backup are one of many options for how people meet each other.
00:19:59
Jon McCray Jones
But I think that like because of lay stage capitalism, because of the hyper end of individualization, because like you have access to your phone 24 seven while you have, you don't have access to third spaces 24 seven. I think that's led to dating apps being the predominant way that people form relationships.
Hope for Healthier Future Dating Practices
00:20:19
Jon McCray Jones
And I think that if dating apps are one of many options,
00:20:25
Jon McCray Jones
That's the way that like maybe Gen Z's dating is too far gone, but like for future generations, you can create a healthier world for like dating and courting. Well, yeah, that's why I took a break from the apps. It it was just overwhelming because predominantly from men, not from femmes, it's very much like I would match with so like pretty much ever everyone I swipe on, I would match with, but then so many people are so like they want to plan a date immediately and I'm like,
00:20:55
Jon McCray Jones
Bro, I'm gonna have like no life if I literally go on a date with every single guy off a field who's asking me on a date. like That's just not sustainable and I'm not doing that. um But then people get all in their chest about like you not wanting to like meet up immediately. So that's why I did the whole bit where I put a Google form on my story to plan dates that way. um Yeah. i i think that like For people on the other end though, I think the idea is that like a lot of times we're talking about like men courty women. A lot of the men complain that like they get ghosted or like when they do try to put in effort elites and nowhere. So it's like, Hey, I might as well plan a date in person first to see if you're interested so we can get face and FaceTime instead of like spending a lot of time trying to court.
00:21:48
Jon McCray Jones
A whole court a group of people and like never know who's actually interested in me and that's why like I think that like a big step for the future in like straight couple dating is the idea of like everybody learning to court and show interest and the person that like And the people that you're interested in because I do think that like a lot of we're talking about straight couples there is this idea of like gender norms where the mass person's job is to court the femme person.
Redefining Gender Roles and Expectations
00:22:21
Jon McCray Jones
yeah And like the femme person is supposed to play this game of like you're supposed to earn me and the mass person has to like put in work. And I think that like that doesn't work in like modern dating or the idea that we're trying to level the playing field between everybody. But I also think that like we need to teach mass people how to like flirt consensually and safely and not objectifyingly.
00:22:48
Jon McCray Jones
because like the only people who are talking to these men are like far right influencers who are like, well, this, you flirt by being an asshole. And I think like, that's the other thing. Like we talked about this a couple of episodes ago, but I don't think you can talk about the issue of like Gen Z dating without talking about the rise of like the manosphere and, and drew Tate and like all those guys who like absolutely fried the brain.
00:23:15
Jon McCray Jones
of large percentages of like young Gen Z men and told them the worst absolute absolute dating device possible and the most misogynistic content on the planet. Yeah. And I think the other thing too is like, I think speaking in hetero norms, men also have to realize there's a difference between like, I'm just stuck up and I want you to chase me down.
00:23:38
Jon McCray Jones
Versus like I'm trying to make sure you're not a serial killer before I go to your house yeah I'm trying to make sure you're not gonna Tie me up and skid me alive but what i will say is So like the people who are saying like hey, let's go have a date in a public place It's not the same people who are like, do you want to just come to my house? Oh No, I mean you can easily that's what happened to the girl where she almost got killed by a tender guy and They went on a public date. He was very normal and everything, but he came up with a very believable story about getting locked out.
00:24:14
Jon McCray Jones
She got sketched out and locked her bedroom door. And when the cops came, her entire apartment was covered in plastic. And I'm not saying this to fear monger, because this is a very, very rare thing. But you know what I mean? like I think men just have to understand that like we've had really negative experiences with guys who are very nice and p polite on the date in public. So it's like sometimes things are just going to move slower. And that's not like a rejection. Yeah, I completely agree.
00:24:43
Jon McCray Jones
um And I do think that there has to be more conversations about like the pace of dating and that like not everybody is interested in moving at like a really fast speed. And I think that like, again, this comes down to communication and like better socialization for everybody.
Deconstructing Gender Norms for Better Experiences
00:25:05
Jon McCray Jones
And I think at the end of the day, removing the expectation that like men are socialized to want to get laid and like,
00:25:14
Jon McCray Jones
the socialization that like for women, if you have sex on like the first date or not, that says something about you and for men, how many people you have sex with, that says something about you. yeah And I think that like the best thing that like we can do for dating has deconstructing like gender norms around shindered expectations in the dating world, yeah no matter what that looks like. Yeah. Cause I think again, we talked about it in a past episode, that's what really hurts a lot of people is people feel like because of the gender that they're socialized under that they have to, you know, even if I'm a girl and I just want like to hook up, I have to like secretly pine for a relationship or vice versa, you know? Yeah.
Wrap-up and Future Topics
00:26:00
Jon McCray Jones
I mean, like, I think that we've exhausted what we have to say about this topic. Yeah. I think that like we should leave the social media breaking people's expectation for dating for a different episode. But I think that this one,
00:26:13
Jon McCray Jones
covers basically what we need to cover. Yep. All right. Well, this has been the fun of sex podcast. Thank you and have a nice day.