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Season 6- Episode 15- The One That Upsets Some (Premiership Round 11)
70 Plays2 years ago
On this episode, we are not pulling punches. We take about 10-15 minutes at the start to really look at what good SOME of the kicking in the game does and why most of it can die a quick death, and we'd be better for it. This of course leads us into the review of the weekend's action in the Prem and why a couple of teams just have us feeling plain old sad. It's a compact, but action-packed episode so kick back and enjoy.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:04
Speaker
It is the fantasy Europeans. My name is Jared Dyke. I wanted to say it's stupid and let's move on, but then you kept going. I'm Ben Glauser. I don't like it when anybody handled that collusion.
00:00:27
Speaker
Hey everybody,
Rugby Tournament Previews
00:00:28
Speaker
welcome back. It is the Fantasy Rugby Yanks. My name is Jared Dyk. I'm Ben Glauser. Let's do this thing. Though we don't have as many matches to talk about, we do have many things to talk about just the same. This will be a slightly, slightly shorter pod than last week. It'll help that we're not babbling about other things that aren't super duper rugby related.
00:00:49
Speaker
or at least not directly related to the past weekend. Yeah, but you know, a good, good airing of grievances. Who doesn't love that? Yep. Crack them. Crack them. Share us on your favorite podcast app. Download rate review wherever you get your podcast.
00:01:11
Speaker
Make sure that you are
Support for George and Busy Rugby Schedule
00:01:12
Speaker
buying our good friend, George, the fantasy or a coffee or beer. Oh my yes. It's a busy, it's a busy week for him. Again, we're back to champions cups. So, you know, he's doing his due diligence and doing all the goods. And if you're anywhere near the top of your damn champion and champions cup league, you definitely owe him a coffee. So it goes deeper than that. There's the champion, there's champions cup, there's, um, Pram, there's URC. And then in the next coming weeks, we're going to have,
00:01:40
Speaker
Um, six nations, six nations and super rugby. It's all going on. It's going to just all be on. Yep. Full tilt. Like almost like, yeah, this is like binge and purge type stuff, except for, for, for casual fan, for folks like us and George, this is where we have a, just a ton of work to do. So, yep. Bye George.
Social Issues and Discrimination Discussion
00:02:02
Speaker
And we're doing all, we're doing all the things. Yeah.
00:02:06
Speaker
There is no discrimination here on this podcast, nor should there be in sports or in life. Weird, Ben and I were just talking about, it's pretty ironic how crime rates are going down, but police brutality is going up. Did I miss something? And those aren't, it's not that that's working, by the way. It's not because of that that that's happening. They're doing it despite that. There's a difference. Right. The two are separate. The crime rate and the police violence rate are completely separate.
00:02:37
Speaker
statistics and they don't really bear relevance to each other. The point being that, so we started the no discrimination here segment here for the George Floyd protests. This is back in 2020.
00:02:54
Speaker
Again, we're fucking four years later, and it's gotten worse, right? In 2022, we saw a record year for killings by police. In 2023, they broke that record and then some. So the problem is getting worse. And whatever you feel, there's got to be a solution to it.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah. There are solutions to it. I know that there's hesitance around the whole defund the police for the nomenclature of it, but come on. If words like that make you shy away from something, come on. You're not serious. Results are what matters. We need to send this. If you have a better solution to it, then by all means, but let's get it done. Not this like, oh, we'll vote for more of the same. This isn't working.
Political Solutions and Critiques
00:03:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:44
Speaker
seems to be, rinse, repeat, unfortunately. And that's kind of where I've gotten to politically, is if you've got a better idea, then I'd love to hear it. Don't just complain about like, oh, that's too far. I don't want to hear about what's too extremist when, to me, I think police murdering more people than in our nation's history, I think that's kind of extreme. That's pretty extreme, left unchecked. So yeah, don't know. I don't want to hear about the
00:04:15
Speaker
The making the problem, you know, solving the problem is too extreme. That's, that's no, won't hear it. God forbid we solve a problem. Right. When was the last time this
Patreon and Analytics Feature
00:04:25
Speaker
country solved the problem? Like literally. Nothing. Well, nothing, nothing recently. No. I guess, I guess if you want to count Pfizer, but you know, probably about that. Did it? I don't know. Anyway. Anywho.
00:04:45
Speaker
grab our Patreon. We will have analytics up soon. We have a new analytic to get your teeth into when we come back to prem. But until then, I am working on something to get on there. I think I'm going to put it up for just our patrons though, because they deserve that and they're awesome. It's going
Critique of Rugby Tactics
00:05:06
Speaker
to be a nice little
00:05:09
Speaker
metric for you to help you sort out your team this week because we only have so much cash in those teams and you got to find where the cheap ones are and where the expensive ones are just not worth the cash and this will help. I'm looking firmly at you, Henry Arendelle.
00:05:28
Speaker
Right the fuck at you. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Anyway, let's go. We'll talk about, we're going to get to the premise, I promise. I think this is something that we've addressed several times and it's
00:05:48
Speaker
now just a broken record, but it's still something that needs to be said in or at least, you know, discussed. And it's new rule. If you can't box kick without the fucking caterpillar. Like, when did this die, by the way, without the caterpillar? Don't fucking box kick. You can't box kick like just done. Like, did I miss? What did I miss about that? The the cat it's the kick a whole week.
00:06:16
Speaker
I have issues with the kicking game as it is right now, but to me it's also partially because there does need to be more entertainment value, but also because the caterpillar rocks themselves are like, to me, as I've
00:06:32
Speaker
said what I think it should be once the ball is without as out of reach of the tackled player like they can place it once it's away from their group from their range of of grasp it's out that to me is what it should be like I you know that that kind of solves there's the kind of bird shit on it even if there's a ruck over that goes over but their hands still on it to me I'm like I would sacrifice that
00:06:58
Speaker
for the Caterpillar Rock going away. Because also, if you're going to box kick, just go, like, right now, Rugby has a problem of the game just completely slowing down. Yeah. And like, it's more that you go into this box where it's like a box kick, Caterpillar Rock, box kick, oh, we're not really in the great attacking position. So, you know what we'll do? We'll form a Caterpillar Rock and box kick it back. And it's like, it's just an endless cycle of it.
00:07:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's. Two, so it's. Yeah, and that's it. And that's that's the thing like. And in the end, you're not putting pressure. There's no pressure being put on anybody. It's just kicking up middle of the field like you're playing between the tens like does it really? Yeah, yeah, no, like I think. For me, the thing that has got me just like so enraged and.
00:07:52
Speaker
No team is safe from this. Barring for you, I will say. And it's down to the folks up top. We do not reward enough people that want to take risks. So many teams are risk averse because they don't want to attack. And there's too much reward coming from box kicks up in the air, like kick and chase.
00:08:20
Speaker
It's baffling to me how people are just saying, this is awesome stuff. I don't know what fucking planet you're on where you think this is going to be great for watchability from the average person. Do you want a sport to grow or do you want to just be a dinosaur and die? It looks disheveled. It doesn't look controlled. It just looks like a, well, here, we're going to put the ball up there and whoever gets it gets. It's like a, I don't know. So put it this way.
00:08:50
Speaker
My first ever rugby match, I got a breakaway somehow, because I'm a prop and nobody was paying attention to me. And I ran like really fucking far up the hill, but I'm also a prop. And it's my first rugby. I don't know how to be in rugby shape. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. And I'm gassed after about like 30 meters. And the fullback doesn't want to tackle me, so he's kind of just like waiting. The wing's running behind me. I'm like, wait, I'm going to get smashed from like five sides.
00:09:17
Speaker
I just fling the ball straight up in the air back behind me. To me, that's essentially the odd thing going the other way, though. It's a box kick. If we get it, we get it, but just get it away from me. It's bad. Everybody laughs. Obviously, if you didn't do it, you've seen someone do it. Whatever. I was never embarrassed about it. I think it's fucking hilarious.
00:09:41
Speaker
But like, that's kind of to me, it just looks like that. It's like, there's no plan is just go like, yeah, it's professionalism has to have a purpose at some point. And it's the same thing to me with a so I don't I'm guessing, you know, if I can defend this to include, and only if you saw the discourse about the the Bath first Gloucester kicking a sequence.
00:10:07
Speaker
To me, that sequence that they showed was actually right after another sequence of the same.
00:10:16
Speaker
Bath kicked it up the field. And then it got charged down in their own end. And they lost. They were at the 10 meter mark. And Ben Spencer did a quick box. That's how I want to see a box hit. Right. Yeah, I remember that one. Right. And then it went back to Finn, and Finn got charged down. And then right off of that, Bath initiate the kicking duel. And what happens, it ends up with Gloucester ball. They end up knocking on, but with inside the Bath 22. So tell me, what's the positivity there?
00:10:46
Speaker
Like it's, and watching the Saracens do it to death. Same thing, yeah. Same thing. Yes, you initiate it. Like, you know who doesn't do that? Is the Harlequins. You want to see a team, if you want a team, I don't care. And well, the Saints do
Impact of Seasonal Conditions on Rugby
00:11:02
Speaker
it too, very well. They'll kick it. And then when you kick it back to them, they run the ball.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yeah, maybe they'll get you once. Maybe you'll shut them down once. Maybe you'll shut them down twice. But the third time, yeah, the one and three, they'll get a line break. And knowing them, they'll put it in the tries. That's what you do. You don't kick it to death, and then you wait until someone fucks up. There's nothing happening.
00:11:26
Speaker
We opened up this new law with the 50-22 as well to enhance the possibilities of attacking. People just have not adjusted to finding ways to attack. It's borderline stupid at this point. I love the 50-22. I don't want it to go anywhere. I was a little skeptical to start, but I don't want it to go anywhere now. It's great off of turnovers. That's fantastic.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah, I just I don't get it. Like, why are we continuing to say this is good rugby? Yeah. Why? Like, like the best defense like I'm a fucking two year old. Right. The best defense. I don't know why. The best defense I saw of it was, well, you almost had a 50 22 there. Well, wait, what was what was that word there? Almost. Almost. Like, so your strategy relies on them having a step or two out of position, like,
00:12:16
Speaker
Otherwise you just keep doing it until someone fucks. It's like, they're not though. That's the thing is everybody's practicing it now.
00:12:23
Speaker
Yeah, they're waiting for someone else to make a mistake, right? You can live by that at a lower level. Like I live by that with my with my younger kids, like kick it in their end and make them make a mistake, which inevitably they do. And we do, too. So, you know, it doesn't always work. That's why you want to play in their end. I think it's more right. Right. Right. So it's fine. But if you're talking about, you know, we're talking about schoolboy rugby and we're talking about, you know,
00:12:46
Speaker
professional rugby. You cannot be trying to translate those two strategies as the same.
00:12:57
Speaker
Let's get away from,
Rugby's Current State and Innovation
00:12:59
Speaker
oh, they're so amazing in the air. Yes, they are. Great. They diffuse highballs because everybody's going to kick a highball now and again. That's fine. It can't be 70% of the game. It can't. It simply can't. Otherwise, yes, our sport will die a slow, painful death, and all of us are going to look around and go, gee, I wonder what happened. I have no idea.
00:13:15
Speaker
They're not.
00:13:23
Speaker
Think about this game. Remember the game where Luke Pierce, I think it was Luke Pierce doing Bristol against Bath, maybe. And he kept telling him, use it as quick as possible. And I'm guessing someone came down on him for doing that because he stopped doing it. Which is crap.
00:13:39
Speaker
Which is crap. Don't play it. He totally stopped doing it, which was exactly what we needed. Everybody praised it, but I'm guessing either someone from Prem or someone from World Rugby came down on top of them and said, no, don't do that. And whoever that was, hang your head in shame, dude. Just quit. We're done. We don't need your type.
00:13:58
Speaker
You know, we all bitch and moan about how rugby doesn't get any fucking exposure. We cannot play this bullshit stuff and think that that's going to get us exposure. Like if you're really that stupid, just leave the sport in general. I really don't want to. I'm running out of patience for people that are OK with that. That's the thing. Like I'm everybody is like, oh, it's so great. It's let's reward that that it does. Fuck you. Shut up and leave rugby because we're going to die a death if we keep going that way. Simple as that.
00:14:28
Speaker
Here's the thing. If I'm an American football fan and I'm watching it, I'm thinking these guys talk to me about like, oh, they take a break. You know, you play one play and you take a break. These guys, they kick a high ball. Everybody, you know, you kind of run to one spot. You stop for like 30 seconds. You kick it back. So everybody runs to a spot. You wait 30 seconds. Like there's not enough rugby. There's not that much.
00:14:52
Speaker
There's just not that much rugby being played. And it was even said that in the in the Lester Saris game, one of the comms was like, you know, the Saris might have to play a little bit more rugby than they wanted to. And I just about like threw a fucking brick at the TV. It's like I heard that. They might have to play more. How about we play like this is a rugby contest, if I'm not mistaken. Yes. Do we? Isn't the whole point to be better at playing rugby than the other team? Not. Yep.
00:15:16
Speaker
Not playing defense and kicking the ball. Right, not kicking a high ball and maybe we get it. And that's not, no, that's, it's like you're playing Aussie rules, not. And then there's, and then there's the, well, what about wet weather? Be fucking brave. One, prepare yourself. Like you're a professional team. You can know how to play in wet weather. Did we not see Nick Timoni just own LUNSTER in the worst fucking weather possible? He figured it out.
00:15:42
Speaker
Yeah. Why the fuck can't anybody else? Like, I mean, I don't, I don't want to lose. If you are playing because you're scared to lose, you are not playing a good brand of rugby. Leave the sport. Okay. Don't teach anybody else your bullshit either. Right. I don't think the weather was all that great at Sandy park this week and 78 points. Yeah.
00:16:04
Speaker
Don't give me like that, you have to go. And that's from 36 from a team that was extremely conservative and 42 from a team that just went wide open, wide fucking open. Yeah, didn't play until 20 or 20. Right. So we'll get to that. But it's like, no, there's no excuse. It's translatable. You can play it in these dark months. It's just an excuse.
00:16:24
Speaker
Yeah. It's an excuse. Yeah. And then your argument is summer, summer rugby, and then you have guys getting heat stroke. That's a great idea. Yeah. Like no. And I understand sometimes you can come down with hypothermia on the other side of it, but it's, you can be smart about it. Like heat stroke comes out of nowhere usually. So yeah, it does. Yup. Can confirm.
00:16:42
Speaker
So, you know, I just I really have no time for anybody that sits there and says this is beautiful rugby. It's when there's box chicks going back and forth. Anybody like we'll talk about it in a little bit. Anybody that thought Owen Farrell played well on Saturday?
00:16:59
Speaker
Like, I want nothing to do with you. Truly, I want nothing to do with you. You can unfollow this podcast and like leave my circle. I want nothing to do with you. Like, I love Faz, but that was terrible. You know, that was horrible. And anybody that says that that was a beautiful game or a great game or a rugby, please leave. I don't know how much that was his fault. I feel like I do. And it was the stare. It was a scary strategy. So that's the problem. Like when you when you. Yeah, you're also taking the ball out of the player's hands, like two of the
00:17:29
Speaker
Who, right now, the best hens in the world, first off, the two of them both play right now in the prem. Finn and Marcus Smith. Certainly Marcus, yeah.
00:17:42
Speaker
And well, Finn first off kicks, but he kicks to like, he's precision kicking. He's using it as an extension of the pass. Like he's basically
Player Utilization and Strategic Reflections
00:17:50
Speaker
learned. Yeah. And that's how he's always done it. And I wish more people would model a game after him because he's so fun to watch. Right. It's not so much a chip and chase as it is like a legitimate forward pass using his foot.
00:18:02
Speaker
He's a fucking wizard with that. And Marcus is that guy who will just, whatever you do, he'll do what you need. If you rush him, he'll just chip it over top of you. If you sit back, he'll- He goes downhill. He'll use Andre and run at you. If you do a little bit of both, he'll spin it out wide. He can do more. And to restrict that is just, why?
00:18:29
Speaker
Because when you want to win situations, ultimately, like we were talking about at the youth level, yeah, kick it downfield. We just want to play in that area. If we're playing in their end for five, 10 minutes, I guarantee we'll end up with the ball and we might just fall over the line, like accidentally. Yeah, even if it's accidental. At this level,
00:18:50
Speaker
It's, you do what you have to do to get the next set piece a little bit further up the field. And this box hicking and then the high, like a lot of this kick tennis and all that, it doesn't serve to do that. And a lot of times it actually ends up in your own tri-zone. So I think a lot more often than it ends up in theirs for the people who initiate it. I think it's a lot easier to
00:19:11
Speaker
to defend, especially because like, yeah, once you know what that they're doing it, like maybe kick it back once. And then the second time they kick it up to you, that's when you attack because you're like, all right, they're just they're just in the zone is we need to kick, we need to kick, we need to kick. All right, we'll take it. We'll be the ones who run it. And usually the ones who who score. Yeah, not enough teams are
00:19:32
Speaker
Not enough teams are encouraging their guys in the back to find the gaps and find the mismatches. You can't tell me that you wouldn't try and pick out Thomas Dutois if you're at Ollie Thorley on the field. There was twice during that sequence where if Bath just passed it out to the right and there was one time where they had two of their forwards, maybe five to 10 meters too far up.
00:19:52
Speaker
But if they were five to 10 meters a little bit further back, they had an easy, easy three on two at one point, maybe like a four on three another time. And instead, they're kicking the ball at the field. And that's them. You're missing those opportunities because you just get locked in this tunnel vision of we need to kick the ball rather than what's actually in front of us. Yeah. Because you're that's taken out of you. It's coach. We have coaches trying to teach all these like
00:20:17
Speaker
I go to the freejax clinics and they're trying to teach these two on three, four on three drill. But they're not, these three on two, four on three, excuse me. But we're not practicing what we preach. We're not saying, yeah, we're not telling these guys, yes, find that situation and go get it. We're now telling them, no, no, no, don't attack, just kick the ball.
00:20:42
Speaker
let's stop rewarding that like it's not, it's not helpful to the sport. It's very, it is very blah, very dry, very boring. And yeah, I still maintain if we continue down this path, we will die a slow death. And, you know, I'll be I'll be watching footy and hockey the whole time.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah. That's all I'll be doing because I'm not going to go watch commercials on end from the NFL either. Pass on that. That's just as boring. All right. Going on. Let's go PWR, Game of the Week. So our Game of the Week over here featured many Americans. It was Ealing and Exeter done at Sandy Buck Track.
00:21:25
Speaker
Ealing made this a little bit more interesting than it needed to be. Certainly, you know, if you ask a BS Exeter, I'm sure they didn't want to do that. No, I mean, they've been, you know, Exeter staked out a pretty decent lead. Ealing made it, like you said, made it uncomfortable, made it a little bit... But to me, the score kind of reflected the
00:21:49
Speaker
The teams, I think Ealing are getting better though. They're, they're, it's not that Exeter, I mean, they threw what they had at them. It wasn't a, um, wasn't, they didn't restrain themselves in any way. They, they, they rugby at Ealing, you know, at them and, and ran at them and Ealing fronted up. It's just, they're not, they're still a new team. They're still a new team. That's how it is. You know, it's, yeah. No shame. It's just, uh, uh, Giselle Mather is, is really trying to do,
00:22:20
Speaker
some good things over there and she's not, she's not trying to make the expectations too lofty and too crazy. You know, you could, and nobody would blame you for that, but she's trying to go like, let's get to this step. Let's get to this step. Let's get to this step. And it's slowly but surely they're getting there. They do have a couple of wins on the season, so you got to give them credit. And that's against a couple of them are against teams that are long established. Um,
00:22:46
Speaker
teams in this league, so. No, no, I mean, like an exit or a very good squad. So this is not a. Yeah, I. This is this is like a good loss, I would say, for for trail finders, because they, you know, they got those the contributions from the players they need to. Like you said, Carol Cox, Abby Dow, of course, she's going to win himself over at KZ is definitely going to score against her old club. Yes, she was not going to leave in that pitch until she did that. Yeah.
00:23:16
Speaker
But this team is there, yeah, Tyson Bukaboom was excellent, as always. Yeah, she's very good. There's a lot of- What about Rifenu, the backup hooker that came on? Not bad. What French team let her walk? Yeah.
00:23:30
Speaker
I'm surprised. I was like, she's French and she's playing in this league and not, not over there. Like what'd I miss? I couldn't believe it. And wait, how old is Ellie green? Cause I saw a picture where she looks like she's like seven. She's a pup. Yeah. She's a baby. She is a baby. She's going to be excellent. Yep. She is a very young kid.
00:23:49
Speaker
Yeah. And but she's she had herself a nice little game. Definitely. She plays above her age. It seems. Yes. I agree. Yeah. We didn't see Bizer in this. That would be nice to get the last. Last one out there. Yeah. But we did see we did see Hope Rogers come back, which is good. She's been back. This is their second game back. But she got it. Scored again. Yep. Open the. Ellie is 20. Oh, she'll be 23 soon.
00:24:16
Speaker
Oh shit. Okay. She looks a lot younger than she is. Yeah. Or I'm just getting ridiculously old. Yeah, maybe you're just an old man now. Yeah. Should be 23 this month, I think. Also, I can't help but mention Klee Maloney. She was player of the match, right? I think. I believe so. Yeah. Why?
00:24:40
Speaker
It's just that I, you know, I'm, I'm still pissed about the whole Ireland rugby thing. Like they really fucked her over, but I'm glad to see she's still kicking ass. So good for her. Yeah. Yeah. I love so many of the players on Exeter. I just, it's Exeter. So it's so hard to love it. Yeah. It's very difficult. Yeah.
00:25:05
Speaker
Um, yeah, it was, yeah, like you said, it was, it was a good work from Ealing that was probably always going to be the result of this match, but what it looked like was going to always be the question. So yeah, good on, good on Ealing for stepping up and doing their thing. Yeah. We're out there. They're in fifth. Yeah. So you got you in credit. They're doing all right. They have two dubs. So the, but I don't see them getting more than four or five this year. So they won't get.
00:25:34
Speaker
beyond that middle, mid-table area, but that's okay. That's still very good for where they are. Absolutely. Well, you consider that sale have been around a bit. Quinn's have been around a long time. Obviously, they're going through a huge change in sale even, but it's the same same. So yeah, go on then. We'll then to Trail Finders and go on, Casey. Keep doing your thing.
00:26:00
Speaker
Let's go to, let's go up to, uh, sale and software community. Um, AJ returns to some of his old friends and does the, does the job on them. I mean, that's, I've said it before and, and I also come into the play later in this, in this, in this show. Um, but the team that plays better rugby won.
00:26:28
Speaker
And Bristol played at a level and they didn't do it consistently enough. And yeah, sale obviously put up a fight as they do. But Bristol just played at a level that I don't think sale are prepared to match. And that that to me is a very disappointing in Alex Anderson because of it, like because of that, like I would have thought that he would have opened up their attack. But if anything, they're just as Steve Diamond as they've always been.
00:26:58
Speaker
And that's frustrating. That's so much better. Well, we saw we've seen them do it. We saw them do it last year. Like, right. And we've seen the spurts of it this year. But I I've won. Like, what what what happened? Like, really, what happened? Yeah, because there's nothing I get that John Luke Dupree should not be. He's not an eight. I don't know why.
00:27:23
Speaker
This whole back line. He's only there because DDP is not in. I know, but come on now. I mean, Ernst van Leeuwen is likewise another lock. So you're playing with, again, four locks and Ben Curry, who, while quality defensively, he absolutely provides nothing in attack. So your best attacking forward is Luke Cowan Dickey, and then, obviously, Creevy when he came in.
00:27:46
Speaker
But that's it. You've got nobody else who can really attack. Dugdale is kind of getting a nose for the trial line, but I don't know about the loose, you know, like where's the, where's the, even the attacking intent here.
00:28:01
Speaker
It's problematic. And these are players like Ben Curry should be. I don't know why there isn't this player development. Because he's got defense. Why isn't he working on his attacking game, where he can really be a fucking problem in the loose? There's no reason he couldn't be Ben Earl. He's got the speed. He's got the defense. But there's just no interest in attack from him. No. No.
00:28:31
Speaker
And meanwhile, on the other side, you look at that, they're a team that was basically full of running. They're like, I love Ben Hart at 13. That's really where he needs to be. I would almost switch, I would maybe put Bakutawa at 12 or maybe even- 12, which is, I believe, where he played for Rossing. I could be wrong. Because Ben Hart is so- Maybe that's what happens. If he's not trapped in tight, he was a problem.
00:28:55
Speaker
Yeah. A lot of places. I think they can do a better job of just interchanging the two of them and being like, all right, you're turning 12. You're turning 12. Or you're turning 13. You're turning 13. That's the way it should work. That would probably be more helpful. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, James Williams was in there to help distribute, and he did. So give him credit. You know, the really wild thing is that they left Richard Lane and Revovo on the bench.
00:29:16
Speaker
Entirely. Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't believe it. And K-Pone. Yeah. Yep. I mean, K-Pone. Augrae's been playing really well. Yeah. It has to be said. It does. But K-Pone's not bad. No, K-Pone's not bad. I think Augrae is clearly said to himself as that number two hooker behind Thacker when he gets healthy. Certainly. End of story. But yeah, I mean, to sale, it is disappointing. And you and I were talking about before with
00:29:46
Speaker
Bobby dupes can run this attack perfectly fine and they can hum. And for whatever reason, they just refuse to do that on Friday night and I don't get it. Like you, you, he can do this. He's shown he can do it. Like either one, you don't trust him or two, you're,
00:30:03
Speaker
You're going conservative for no damn good reason. I don't get it. I'm sorry, when your attack comes from Gus Creeby rolling over the trial line, you get lucky on that one, in my opinion. Right. Johnny Hill getting a lucky charge down because Harry Randall's broken. Yeah. That's it. Right. Oh, that was the other thing. It's Johnny Hill. I haven't mentioned this in our group chat, but Johnny Hill, we talk about him being overrated and then certainly not international level.
00:30:33
Speaker
You've got Johnny Hill at, they ran out, what, around the 22, to be generous, with the entire 15 meter channel being covered only by Max Malins. And Max Malins just absolutely suit cased him.
00:30:49
Speaker
Just pulled them up, packed them up, and sent them down. Are you fucking kidding me? I could go through a list of, I could go through a list, including the guy across the way from him, this match, Joe Batley, would have scored on that. There's so many types of, and this goes for a lot of people, but Johnny Hill's the personification of it for this.
00:31:16
Speaker
just like he's not a good lock these days. That good lock would be on international level. What kind of Maro Toji would have like would have laughed his way. They would have just like dragged Max Malins. Malins would have been a cape for like Maro, for Theo, for. Slut drill. Yeah, for even the Chasm and Martin. Martin would have just been.
00:31:43
Speaker
No, no, no, no, no, no, you silly boy. Right. And so to me, that's, that's just a, yeah, no. Don't give me Johnny Hill. But what do you, what do you do? Like, and here's the thing. Like, I think that was by design. He was, he was the one in the 1331. Like,
00:32:01
Speaker
Really? That's your one? Like, you are screwed if that's your one. Right. But who else is he going to be? Looking through that line. Anybody else? Honestly, anybody that's got a warm body besides him. I think they put Bamber there for a bit and he was just getting pooped too. He's got a freaking house too. Yeah. The point is you put someone dynamic out there. Tell me what's dynamic about Bamber or Hill or anybody they like. Nothing. Like, ugh, no. Yeah, I don't know.
00:32:29
Speaker
It doesn't surprise me the way, the way it happened, but, um, is what it is. Um, all right.
00:32:38
Speaker
Moved on. We don't need to spend too much time on Newcastle Quinn's. No. Quinn's went to Newcastle and went there because they needed five points and they came with five points. Yep. That's all I did. That's all I needed to be done, honestly. Yeah. I was kind of just putting in that. Let's go. I was hoping for a little bit of style points in this. Nope. But they're just like, nah, let's just do the job. Get in, get out. Yeah, do the job and get out of here.
00:33:00
Speaker
God knows that that- Efficient. Kingston Park has been a little bit dodgy for some teams. We do need to talk about the wing code. Because you know that so well. Radwan broke the wing code and then got Esther Hazen on the wing himself because of it. You try to fuck with Will Porter, you make him make the turf grow and the plastic grow.
00:33:29
Speaker
And um, and then you get what you get. Um, but no, so the wing code to me was like, you know, you're on the sideline. There's, there's shit at the sideline. The wing code is, you know, we can play it physical, but let's protect each other. And there was just no, no, um, no looking out for, for Will Porter from, from Radwin. Well, you did get sent to the bin didn't you? Yeah.
00:33:55
Speaker
I don't think he did. He did. I thought he did. No, it's just a penalty. Oh, no, he did. Nope. That was a nope. He did get carded. All right. Okay. Okay. Fair then. Yeah. And I think the smart thing for Quinn's, as much as it's annoying and like, sorry, Newcastle, like this one thing was for them to just leave Porter off. I think he needed stitches and there's, you know, we could probably finish this with next screen and be okay. And they did, you know, probably a little arrogant, but the same time they,
00:34:20
Speaker
It was, you know, probably the right move, but also a good move to get. Yeah. Well, okay. Because of injury green, you got, you get to run this attack for, for half a overall better part of an hour. Yep. So, you know, like not just show us what you got, but just get used to it. I thought he played pretty well.
00:34:38
Speaker
Right. So, but yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Um, it was, it was the, yeah, it was a good move. Um, you know, you're well, Edwards was, was, was Russ T though. Yes, he was. I mean, the best part of the game was the finish from Andre that he got from green, um, on the counter attack. I think so. No, Dom brand from Dom brand. That's what it was.
00:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's what it was. It was green to Dom rant to that. That might, that might make more sense, but either way, no, oh, no, on the wide part. No, that was, there was Andre out the wing on that counter. Yeah. It was dumb to Andre. That's what it was. Yeah. It was green, green to Dom's Andre. Okay. There we go. Hey, see, Eric, we got there. Yeah.
00:35:24
Speaker
It was probably it, and that's it. Because I was hoping to get a second assist, but they don't do that. It'd be more like NHL, fantasy road me. Two assists, please. Good luck barking up that tree. Anyway, so let's go to Saturday. You want to start bad or good? Let's start with ours and get it out of the way.
00:35:53
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. We've talked enough about what our problem with the game was. Here's the really sad thing for me in any way that hates the Saracens and hates me for loving them is going to be like, haha, fuck it. I am slowly falling out of love with this team and the way that they're playing.
00:36:18
Speaker
We have shown the ability to attack and play actual rugby. And even in this game, the few times we did, we showed what happened. And for whatever stupid reason, the powers to be decided, let's not do that. Let's just bash the ball downfield and try and kick the ladder off it. And it just
00:36:39
Speaker
It's just so disappointing. The thing I wish that was encouraged more with the Saracens is when little things that don't quite hit like the Earl knock on that could have been fricking a goner if he had dropped the offload, I think it was from daily or whoever, Lewington, whoever it was, Sinti, Sinti. Yeah, Sinti, it was from Sinti.
00:37:02
Speaker
go back to that well, go back to that well, it's there. Go back to it. Okay, it didn't work, but keep going. We saw that your Bristol was very good.
00:37:13
Speaker
and they did very similar things where shit, it didn't work, but they went back. And they went back again, and they went back again. And if it was on, it would get there, and they would get it done, and then they would score these fantastic tries, but not only score, but they would win games based on that stuff. So it's just, and Quincy did the same thing on their way to the title that year as well. And just, I want to see more of that for the Saracens. Does that mean that we need to let Mark McCall go?
00:37:43
Speaker
I don't know. The question can be asked at least. Let's see where they finished this year. I'm willing to let it go to the end of the season. In the end, where I'll agree with you is I'm annoyed that I feel like I'm deprived of rugby.
00:38:00
Speaker
Cause it's like when sometimes like, and when the Saracens really show up, when they ball out, it's, it's, it's almost harder to enjoy it. Cause you're just like, you're so much like, yes, can't you just play like this all the time? Like you're still annoyed by it. Like, why don't you just do this? And then when you see them do this, it's like play like this. You're like, well, just do the other thing. Cause you're going to win if you do that. And they don't. And it's, it's so frustrating.
00:38:25
Speaker
It is, it makes it that like, it's like you could be something great, but you choose not to be. Which, of course, that's the thing that everybody hates about Saracens is that they choose to be great. There they have it. And it's like that, that's yeah, that's frustrating. Again, it goes back to that.
00:38:45
Speaker
do what it takes to win the moment. And I feel like Saracens are not in the mindset of do what it takes to win the game. They're more like, yeah, as you said, playing to not lose. And, hey, look at that scoreboard. How does playing to not lose work out?
00:39:04
Speaker
Your scrum got fucking beasted. Yeah, no. Beasted? Why would you want to play it tight? Your scrum's getting beasted. Not worth it. Keep the ball off the deck and keep the ball alive and keep going. Don't go back to scrums or anything like that. Right.
00:39:19
Speaker
Yeah, because once and even if you're not wrong in the scrum, once you paint that picture, you're fucked. Right. And like, even if you are clearly the person that did did the right thing, you know, you've already painted the picture in the referees mind that you're fucked. And that's what's going to happen, unfortunately. And not every ref is going to be able to catch otherwise. And a lot of refs can't, you know, once the ref see that picture that it's in their brain, that's already there. And
00:39:44
Speaker
They're never going to change their mind. And that's just the way it was on Saturday. So I can't believe that that intercepts by. By Kelly, only because I can't. I still can't. Right there. How do you how do you not see him? Right. I can't believe through that pass, like how what was never on a shorter ball on that made sense. But there was no other ball. Right. I was just like, you know, the past was was a little bit like, first off, like that's got us. That's got a.
00:40:14
Speaker
You know, it's like that NFL, they talk about the quarterbacks has to have the clock in their head. Like when you get a pass that gets a little. Bobbled and it's not, you know, not perfect. Okay. Well, now you have, when you're taking time to regather and, you know, get it right before you lock up a little bit, please, that you got to speed it up. And he went like way late, even if there was no bobble, he was, he was way late for that pass. It would have been a risk. Yeah. It would definitely been a high risk, which is, you know, Howie plays and that's okay. But like.
00:40:41
Speaker
At that point, you got to understand, it's not only a high risk, there's no reward. Right. So don't do it. Eat it, chip it through, go over the top, go back, one of those three. Either way, that's not all I need. Just anything. Right. There's anything other than that. Even if you wanted to pop it over the top to the wing. OK, I don't think it would have done that well. Maybe it gets bundled into touch and we keep playing. But then, OK.
00:41:10
Speaker
It's not a try the other way. Like there was literally the worst possible pass in that option. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we made up Dan Kelly's not having a good year. We made him look brilliant. Very good. We saved our, saved our butts once, which was pretty, which is a hell of a play. Anyway, the palate cleanser the week. Yeah. Let's go down to assholes and saints. Um,
00:41:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's just sparred them for 20 minutes. That's all it really was. No ball, no attack, nothing. And then after 20 minutes, I think that is when Jenkins got charted. They're popping around their own try line and giving away a try because they can't complete a little forward crash. Who was it? Scott Young just bottled it? Yeah, he was ASY.
00:42:02
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and Vermeulen got over, like he Vermeulen his way over twice, like. Yep. Fell over the line after catching the ball. Right. Playing like a bag of dicks. This is, that's what happens. But even then, I think I even was texting him like, no, Saints are going to win this game anyway. Like if they just, all they have to do is like take their heads out of their asses.
00:42:22
Speaker
I know. And really, like, if you're watching us and tell me that Saints were playing their brand of rugby and doing, and this was still happening, you're wrong. Like, no way. Like, they, they woke up after 20 minutes and they got 14 points pretty quick. Right. You know, the Jenkins card was, was helpful, but. Why don't, why don't we give it to our back three? Like, Ollie Sladeholm and Furbank. Especially between Sladeholm and Furbank. Like, holy shit.
00:42:48
Speaker
Yes, I don't I think I It's hard. I don't know how I Don't think Bortho would give him a call yet, but he should be like the development squad They do have the England A's apparently so okay. He's got it in that they got to start giving him some time because damn I
00:43:11
Speaker
Yep. I mean, him and Tommy Freeman and Furbank, the way they're playing. Let's feel like a non-entity. As soon as they brought Freeman on, this game was over. This game changed. Well, I mean, it was maybe that was part of Dawson's idea, like, all right, let's stay within touching distance and then we'll bring Mitchell and Freeman and Dings on and, you know, and Pearson and all that. And Chris Langdon was a nice bring on as well. Like, yeah, he made a pretty big set of changes near halftime. Odin doll, which was which was a card. Sorry. Yep.
00:43:41
Speaker
And then the, and then the four other changes that came super fast after that, the loose head, the hooker, and then Mitchell and Freeman, like that definitely changed the flavor of the game. And you could just see it. And anybody that's saying Alex Mitchell shouldn't be England's Scrum half.
00:43:57
Speaker
Please share what you're smoking because Ben wants some and he and he would love to try your shit because you got some good stuff. That's all I know. Please send it my way. Anybody else? And listen, I think Ben Spencer should get a phone call as well. But Alex Mitchell is the best nine you have. Plain and simple. You don't like it. Tough shit. Eat it. That's how it is. Yeah. It really even got one of those sniper. Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:27
Speaker
And that like, yeah, 53, like after the 53rd minute. Fuck. It was what, like 28 to seven. Geez. Yeah. Something ridiculous. Uh, no 10. Sorry. 10. Yeah.
00:44:42
Speaker
I will say, I think it's late kicking. I think what's the penalty at 60 minutes was. So here's the thing. I was that's the one decision I have a problem with everything else. He got pretty much bang on what's up. So credit to him. I chat on referees last week because of the way we were griping. He got pretty much everything bang on. Yeah. So I got to give him credit. That's the one decision I thought was it was a huge mess. Who who the fuck calls pulling someone through the rug?
00:45:10
Speaker
Yeah. Nobody. That was nobody. But then you don't. So last I checked, you call the penalty and then you call the retaliation. Did I miss that? So it should have been penalty to Saints. Right. Not against them. And yes, and no, the try should not have stood. And yeah, like, so that's the only reason Slay got that penalty. And honestly, if he doesn't get that penalty, I don't know if they get the try either. Right.
00:45:35
Speaker
because I think that takes a lot of wind out of their sails and Saints go down and probably score again. Yeah. And then everything's gone. And we're not playing, you know, squeaky bum time. But oh, my God, how pissed are you if you're Exeter's defensive coach? Like that last try was criminal defending. Oh, it's terrible. Oh, my God. Everybody's around the ruck, like either on the deck or right next to the ruck, honey potted, like. Yep.
00:45:59
Speaker
All they had to do was get one pass away, and they did. Like, oh my God, I'd be so irate at my defense if I was him. So here's what I'm not... I guess where my rate would be, the fact that not only could Hutchinson score that, unmolested, by the way. Yeah, until he gets to the line, which doesn't count. Right. But he had like two or three guys outside of him.
00:46:26
Speaker
He was almost selfish there, but at the same time, I would tell the kids, if you're over, if the tri has scored, have the tri be scored. Score it. Don't throw the extra pass and risk it and whatnot. Especially not at that moment. He was like the second receiver.
00:46:50
Speaker
Like, how can you not put pressure on the defense? I'm like, look, make and make the extra pass. Make and make, they didn't even make and make the first pass. It was just get the, you get this to the open guy and he'll just run it in. Like, oh, that was criminal, as you said. Just, I mean, for them, that must suck.
00:47:07
Speaker
I would have been like, in review, I'm pausing that right there and being like, all right, we're going to all look at this picture for the next 10 minutes and you're all going to pick out the exact little things that are wrong. If you don't come up with everything that I come up with, you're all fired. Come on, man. I don't know if they have highlights. I'm sure they have something equivalent in the UK, but they would say a little children's magazine that you'd have it like your doctor's down the street.
00:47:32
Speaker
That's right. When there's like the spot what's wrong in the picture or spot the the difference isn't it? Like, like, okay, we're gonna look at this guy here. We're gonna look at this guy. We're gonna look at what else do you see that's wrong? Oh, that guy's wearing odd socks. Okay, that's not exactly what I'm talking about. But yes, that's wrong. This there's got to like, yeah. But the thing is, the thing is when you practice against Exeter, all the time,
00:48:00
Speaker
you're gonna learn how to defend against exit. You think it's gonna be in tight, and they're gonna bash it over, you know, they're gonna bash down the door. Right, and so their defense, if they're wild, falls apart, because like, yeah, they're gonna compress, because that's what they expect, this is what they want other teams to do.
00:48:16
Speaker
And I don't think the saints even had to really press them that much on it. I think it was like a phase or two, and then they were already compressed. They're like, all right, this is what we're doing. And saints are like, no, no, no, no, what we're doing is scoring. Like, it was, yeah, they just gave it to them way too quickly. It was not, no, not, yeah. But again, when you, like, Exeter only practices, I'm sure, that that pick and go stuff down there, because that's all they ever do. And then maybe that pass out to Feyo Oboso, which,
00:48:47
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, give it to the guy with the magic jets. Right. What else are you going to do, right? But that's it. That's it. You'd be the path, you'd smack it up the middle and then until it's time to throw it all that way out wide to the fast guy for the try. Right. But that's it. There's no in between. Whereas, you know, you need to learn to defend that intermediate where Hutchinson was. But there's nothing there because your team doesn't do that in attack. Right. No, no, no. So again, we're opening up your like when you limit
00:49:15
Speaker
what you do when it's hack, you're actually limiting what you do as a club in defense. There is my coaching. Lesson of the night. Yep, agreed. Let's go Sunday down to the wreck. I feel like bath let Gloucester hang around because I just you could feel like there was so much more that they had to give this game and they didn't.
00:49:43
Speaker
And I don't know if that was partly game plan or what, but damn, like they lost their hang around way too closely. I have, I have a cat that is a mouser. And every so often that the mice only get in the basement or whatever. And there was one night where like she was just being a dick to this mouse. And I, I like turned over and I could hear it's in the other room.
00:50:07
Speaker
And there's something I can do about it. And just tell her, I'm like, just end it. And she did right then. She took over. I felt pretty powerful and also that's kind of scared of the cat now. She's my hit man.
00:50:18
Speaker
But yeah, I gave the order to kill. Yikes. Um, anyway. Well, the John Wick did you? Yeah. But like, that's what I felt like that they're just fucking with him way too much. I, that's what I wanted to do to that. I tell that sort of, because it's like, Hey, bath, just end it. And then they never did. They didn't get the bonus. They kept them right there. Like just not good. I mean, good for Gloucester. They, they threw everything they have, which unfortunately is not very much. Um,
00:50:46
Speaker
Hasting was poop on the day. Johnny, okay. Oh man, that past pass, that last pass was so bad. I know my feat of strength was last week, but Johnny May was acceptable in this match. Except he didn't carry shit. No, no, no, no. I don't think he made mistakes defensively. He did all right. I don't think Kakunasiga really
00:51:10
Speaker
abused him the way he could have. No. Um, not the way like, but I mean, they did. I mean, fuck it. Lawrence and, and, and him were just tried. Like if it wasn't one, it was the other. Just just running or, or if it wasn't either of them, it was Tom Nickel Enville. Just slicing that defense up. Didn't finish. No finish him. I'm
00:51:38
Speaker
I don't know if this is like a completely accurate statement, but I think when everyone's on song, it's hard to say that there's a better center pairing than Red Path and Lawrence.
00:51:48
Speaker
I won't argue with that. Certainly not in the prime. Joseph and Esther Hazen are there. They're there. Probably Freeman and basically anybody else that they pick with Saints. But Esther Hazen to me. And that's it. Esther Hazen is more at this right now. His reputation right now is formed. He hasn't been that great in the prime this year. Right. Lawrence has been.
00:52:12
Speaker
just worth every penny to go. Yeah. So to me that that's why I would go with with with that pairing because there's just there's no better center. I'm, I'm racking member and now I've had a beer, you know, but is there a better center in Europe right now? I'm struggling. It's hard to say, like, on par? Yes. Better? No. Yeah.
00:52:43
Speaker
Yeah, hard to say there's someone better. I don't know if there's any, there's probably centers on par, but better. But he's just a problem when you get him in the loose and, and he's got the speed and the power. And there's not many centers, the way the centers are built these days that you kind of have one or the other.
00:53:00
Speaker
Um, right. He's extremely dynamic and does it all. So, um, happy 50th to William here. Indeed. Good, uh, good way to market with a try and try assistant overall really good game. Like, yeah, damn good on him. Was he playing with a mesh? No. No, it wasn't cochlear. I don't remember.
00:53:30
Speaker
It's not marked here. Damn. Oh well. I don't remember who it was. That's all right. But anyway, yeah, really good, really good game from him. I thought, yeah. I think that's his ceiling. And that's great. But I also don't think that's like... For who? Oh, you know who it was? To Glanville. That's who it was. Oh, it was. Tom to Glanville. Yeah. That's who it was. Because he was... Now my brain is in it. Because what do you have? Two tries. I remember now. Yeah, two tries. Yeah.
00:54:00
Speaker
Yep. Yeah. And he's, he's, he had a great game and he's kind of, you know, making a claim for that 15 shirt for bath now, which is great. Yep. Makes me happy because he's like, well, look, they don't want him. I'd take him at series, but, um, although pardon, looks like, pardon, looked like he's looks great. You know, this, when, when they do decide to attack, he looks fantastic. He's got a couple of tries to his name now. Like he looks very comfortable in that shirt. So you got to give him credit and he's settled in well and,
00:54:29
Speaker
give the club credit because they're clearly, you know, finding the things that fit his game best and getting him to do it. I just wish they did a lot more. Yeah. But anyway, with my, my only, my only issue with bath is again, the, the lack of attacking intent within their, their, their forward pack.
00:54:52
Speaker
Yeah. Who's their runner? I mean, Miles Reed can do it in a pinch, but like, I'd rather have him as one of the, that's my loose forward that's in the pods. And they've got such... Well, they need, they got Barbary back. Barbary's back. Yeah, that helps. And... Cozia is fucked. His shoulder did not look good. That didn't look happy. That sucked. Yeah. Well, you know, I'll say for the second row, Stuke's pretty dynamic. He is. He is. So I'll say that, you know, yeah, in the type five, I don't know.
00:55:23
Speaker
Stu put a score on in place of the hill. Johnny Hill. Yep. Yep. Agreed. He's on the list. Freddie Clark's on that list. G.J. and Jaco are thumpers. Just within this in this game, Cameron Jordan was scored. Yeah.
00:55:42
Speaker
Yeah, no, they got Alfie back, then he's underhilled back. That's another one in the back. Yeah, exactly. And Hill, Ted Hill. Oh, good. Yeah. None of these three would be in their starting, their best, you know, Reed would be on the bench. Yeah, Reed would be in their fourth guy, yeah. Maybe Klitay as well, but only if they put a 6-2 split or not. Yeah, he'd be the 23 in that 6-2. Not a 5-3. Yeah. No, he's that extra forward. What's that?
00:56:19
Speaker
All right, so that wraps up this one. We're gonna head over to Fancy Corner Land. If you're gonna join us over there, we'll see you over there. If not, enjoy this weekend's Champions Cup. And we'll talk to you guys next week. Have a good one everyone. Later. Cheers.
00:56:49
Speaker
If you'd like to ask a question or leave us general feedback, email us at fantasyrugbypodcastatgmail.com. Too far, you die, by the way. Yeah, exactly. The ticky tackiness kind of absolutely pisses me off. Be sure you check out our Patreon at patreon.com slash the fantasyrugby. Yeah.