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E02: Sitting Down with Dad, Part 1
31 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, we interview our favorite man on the planet, the apple of our eye, and the subject of this podcast – Dad. Together, we discuss the gravity of his situation, the notion of good and bad days, and the importance of finding silver linings.
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Transcript
The Seizure and Diagnosis
00:00:00
Speaker
I had a seizure, cracked up a car, and suddenly we find ourselves having 12 days in the hospital where I never spent overnight ever. um And you find out that there's something incredibly wrong with your head and that it's fatal and you know that is heavy.
Introducing Doug
00:00:23
Speaker
Hi everyone. So this is a super special episode clearly. um These would be the man, the myth, the legend. himself our most specialist specialist fastest guest the topic of our whole thing is the apple of our eye the apple of our one might say um are you talking about the dog yeah where is it this is our dad but go ahead take the floor hello i'm doug nice to see you all although i can't see anyone that's funny yeah a little bit you're perfect keep going that's all i got that's all you got okay cool well we're back in home
00:00:59
Speaker
That's why we're able to get our special guest on our podcast today. I'm honored by the way. That's very sweet. You're the most important guest we could ever have. He put on a nice sweater for everyone too. A lack of a better question. How are you feeling today? I feel okay. That's the weird part is I feel fine. um You know, other than, you know, kind of tired. but I'm always kind of tired because I'm old. You know, I think there's ups and downs every day. I think I probably hit every range of emotion on a daily basis. And you know, you wake up in the morning and you feel one way or another, and I have an unrelated back issue. So sometimes I don't sleep well, and then I'm kind of tired and cranky. And you cranky. Yeah. Imagine that.
00:01:40
Speaker
That might be an episode after I'm gone. Um, maybe, maybe two episodes, you know, so I don't, there's a heaviness some days there's a, uh, you know, you don't know if it's sadness or if you're tired or whatever, but it's such an alien equation for me. Um, as it is for all of us, you know, I had a seizure, cracked up a car and suddenly we find ourselves having 12 days in the hospital where I never spent overnight ever. And.
00:02:07
Speaker
you find out that there's something incredibly wrong with your head and that it's fatal and you know that is heavy. And I look at you guys and it's heavy. And I look at your mother and your other sister and it's heavy because you want to stick
Doug's Emotional Journey
00:02:20
Speaker
around. And then there are other days where you're like, I just feel terrible for your mom because she's a caregiver and that's that's not what anyone needs to be unless they signed up for it. It's pretty good audit though.
00:02:32
Speaker
well she's great at it but I'm saying she didn't sign up to be in RN or anything else. Yeah but I think she signed up for a lifetime of ups and downs with you and it's sickness or health. that This is the test of all tests, um at least for the sickness part. Yeah I mean I think it's gracious that you spend all of your time worrying about her and about us and not about you. I think that says a lot about you and about the situation. I mean, we literally just asked you how you're feeling and you talked about all of us. Yeah. Well, but I mean, I'll you know, anything he's consistent. Yeah, I'm consistent. I'll be gone at some point. Sorry. It's it's the harsh reality. I think it's harder for the survivors. I really do. And you know, because it's sad, the sadness continues for me, my sadness theoretically will end. I don't know what happens, but I kind of got a close
00:03:23
Speaker
you know, when you're dead, you're dead. But I, um, I feel terrible for, you know, the caregivers, the survivors, the, the family that and carries on without, not that I'm like the biggest best deal, but you kind of are the biggest best deal. I like that. You should get them on t-shirt. Yeah. I don't really need clothes right now because it seems kind of silly. Um, you know, I just feel, I feel bad and maybe that's my way of protecting myself. I don't know.
00:03:52
Speaker
but i feel bad for you guys i don't feel great for me just just just to be clear Yeah, it's um it's a range of emotions. And I would say that's what happens every
Family Therapy Experiences
00:04:02
Speaker
day. So it's a little bit weird. I had lunch with a friend the other day and he said, what's your day like because I'm retired and no longer really working. I do some consulting and things like that. But it's like, what's your average day like? And it it was a little bit of a surprise question because I'm not doing that much. And I don't think that's great. ah Part of that is is the orthopedic back issue. Part of that is is just I tired, but I'm tired because I'm not sleeping well and I'm not sleeping well because of the back and then you're up and you think about all this other stuff and then you turn and you see Becky, you know, looking at her phone on some, you know, kind of site ah that's about GBM and it's 4.30 in the morning. So it's kind of sucks. But you know, well not a surprise. It should suck. How's that for an answer? That was great. Okay. I mean, I think what you were last saying just about
00:04:51
Speaker
the cycle of everything it's not when I'm like how are you feeling that's such a loaded question because I mean of course it is because there's so much going on in you or I guess obviously experiencing it in a different way than all of us are because it's actually happening to you but feeling like all the feelings and emotions that we're feeling you also are like reflecting those and feeling those yourself in sort of that weird almost like guilt when it shouldn't be Gil, and I know that's something that you have worked on or talked about. Emma and I both like are newly into therapy, granted it's something we should have probably been doing for a while, all of my friends love it, they're like, it took this, really Haley. But anyway, it's something that Emma and I both sort of like nosedived into, dove into, and really enjoyed it, at least I think. Yeah. I think it's dived. Dived? Nosedoved? I was having this weird feeling of Gil, of like back and forth of living New York and coming back here and something Emma and I
00:05:40
Speaker
we'll probably continue to talk about um and just like when I have a fun weekend
Acceptance and Support
00:05:44
Speaker
and I like am not necessarily thinking about the situation I'm like oh I feel sort of guilty and I was describing that to my therapist and she's like that's not guilt and she was unpacking me what guilt is and she was like guilt is like when you do something wrong and this was hypothetical I've never done this but she was like if you hook up with your best friend's boyfriend like you feel guilt you wake up you're anxious like you did something wrong in your circumstance it's not guilt it's what you're feeling is like you just like love and she was like you love your dad and like you just want to hang with him but like that's not it's just like you're missing him and you love him and it's like feelings of missing and wanting to be with you which is what I feel every day always like before all this happened I just love you promise but like it's that's what it was and like replacing that with something that my therapist said that I was like
00:06:30
Speaker
that's really helpful for me because I don't feel I was misplacing my guilt and I feel like I don't want to speak for you but I know like you and mom have talked a bit with the therapist like her MSW you don't need to share about that but no but I mean that's that's an important part and I said to You know, when we were once talking to the therapist, I looked at your mom and I said, you're going to feel guilty when I'm gone because you will feel relief at one point because it makes sense. You're going to, instead of being a caregiver, you're going to be not a caregiver and it it should be a relief and that's going to make you feel terrible.
00:07:05
Speaker
I mean, yeah, that's, it yeah that's something I honestly have never thought of. And granted, because I'm not the primary caregiver, but there'll be a moment of that. And I don't, you know, I just want her to feel she's amazing. Obviously, and we've had a lot of years together, we don't get all the years we thought we'd want we'd have but you know, we got quite a few. And as I said with you guys, this is easy in the sense that we don't have all these things we need to repair. We we Are all pretty well in including Lucy your other sister where we're all kind of resolved on things It's not like oh, I wish that I had talked about this or whatever covered this or that I feel like we've had a pretty good life It's been ah a good and clean and easy run in that sense Yeah, I mean, I think it's we're not trying to cram in a bunch of stuff right now if we don't know not in like a bucket list center or anything, but it's not like we don't have reparations to make. We don't have, I mean, we have trips that we want to take and stuff like that, but it's nothing that, like if all of this ended tomorrow for all of us, it's not like, I don't think we'd have any regrets, which I think is so great, but it's also sort of like, it's hard to feel grateful for such a good life and such a great relationship and such a great run when but we're well
Balancing Hope and Realism
00:08:24
Speaker
we're stuck with this. and with's being And I think that's sort of like,
00:08:27
Speaker
we keep trying to find silver linings and all of this. And that's a huge one. I think the fact that we've had such a great relationship will continue to have that. We don't need to be running around trying to fix stuff.
00:08:40
Speaker
We, I mean, I think like of all of our friends, of all of the people we talk to, it's like people are jealous of the relationship that we have had with you. And that's not something they're, yeah, that's not something they're coming out of the woodworks to say because of this situation. Like that's something that we've heard since we were growing up. Everyone's like, Oh, your dad's so great. We wish we had a dad like that. Like, you don't know how lucky you are. And it's like, to have that is such a great thing. I think it makes this not that this is ever easy. you know I can't imagine a situation where this would not be hard I think it makes this a lot harder but it's also like it makes it more like what like what the fuck like how could we have
00:09:17
Speaker
Like of all people, I think that's sort of the root of this podcast. You won't ever think this stuff's going to happen to you. Until it does. Until it does, exactly. And I don't know. it I mean, it feels so unfair and there's so many things that are so great that it's hard to sit here and be like, this is like unfair, but it is, it's not fair. This whole situation is. It's not fair to anyone, and you know, in our situation or outside of it. I mean, this is a shitty hand to be dealt. yeah Arguably one of the worst. The shittiest one might say. One might.
00:09:47
Speaker
seems like so many jokes that we could say um but um uh yeah i mean and and you know selfishly i think you know you guys look at it and say why us or what what what did you call this not us this is alien and and we're we're right smack in the middle of it it's not an arrogance saying oh it shouldn't happen to us it's like no it just you just don't know how to mentally process it because you never thought about You know what I mean? It's like I never, I mean, why would you think about it until it happens to you? But it's just such an odd alien thing. And you know, the movie's written, yeah the the ending is done. It's like a question of when. And unfortunately, you know, they're making progress with research and all that stuff. But it's, it's, you know, it's hard to lean into the hopefulness of that, because it feels like such a far stretch. And I think I think you're right. We've talked about this a lot like you have to hope for the best but prepare for the worst and it's sort of like what's the line of we like what's the line of them being foolish like we don't want to have all of these high hopes just to be let down from them I mean I think you never know like your situation is different your tumors aren't progressing nearly as fast as they typically do in this diagnosis but all that said it's like how how long can we hang on to like
00:11:07
Speaker
You're not the garden variety. Stuff's not moving. You look different. It's like where, where is that? Like at what point are we being dumb? Yeah. And
Living in the Present
00:11:16
Speaker
I think that's part of what I was struggling with in the last you know month or so is sort of feeling optimistic to me feels like a super dangerous position to be in. and I think it's dangerous. I think it's necessary. I just think we need to tow the line of power of positive thinking, which I know you're, ah lifelongenex so maybe that's not your cup of tea
00:11:38
Speaker
but i did am i wrong let spot on oops but But I think, I mean, I, the way that I've approached like anything in my life, I think difficult or not difficult is sort of like, don't bank on what you want the outcome to be, because then you're going to be so crustfallen when that doesn't happen. So it's sort of like, we don't want to set, I mean, we're going to be devastated regardless. So it's sort of like, what's really the risk of setting ourselves up for a total heartbreak? When this ends, no one's going to be surprised. But I think that
00:12:10
Speaker
we want to hope for the best situation. We want to hope for the maximum amount of time. A part of me is still like maybe they were wrong, but that's okay. So this is where our time in because I am I know we talked about this like on the side, but like I think also this like the the towing the line between like power positive thinking being a realist like I think that is true for every person but I think it varies for particular people and like what they are capable of doing and what makes them feel better because like for one like for mom for instance like she isn't leaning in that much into the positivity because she doesn't want to be crushed and like that's just how she operates. I think I'm balancing her out because I'm literally like every day I'm like
00:12:50
Speaker
it's the longest April Fool's joke in the world. And I know I'm being naive, but I also am like, oh, like what no one beats this. Oh, until now. Right. Where's Ashton Kutcher? Like, we got really pumped. I just like, and I know like in my chest or whatever something in my stomach here, like I know what is that in your gut in your gut? a Deep down like I know in my chest. I just know like, I know I'm not being like, I know this isn't great. But like,
00:13:19
Speaker
if what if and if my hoping and my like putting goodness into the universe and holding the doors for people and trying to gain all the good karma I can right now like what if that helps like I don't know and I think Emma was expressing this well it's like there's no circumstance where I can like prepare myself where I'll be like knew it right when the worst day happened so like it's gonna rock me either way for lack of a better word for me like being a little delusional it's like it's sort of also it's helpful it's helpful and it's also like taking a little bit of the reality out of it and like that's how i cope and that works for me i think if it helps your day to day like right now it's sort of i think we spend a lot of time pre-grieving, which we've been told not to do. We've also been told not to Google, but it's like, obviously we're doing that as well. um Can't stop doing that. But I think the thinking about the end, thinking about, okay, how can we best prepare for this? What are we going to do after? What's life going to be like after? It's sort of, it's so hard to not think about that.
00:14:13
Speaker
But I feel like it's maybe more productive to just try to piece it day
Doug's Legacy
00:14:18
Speaker
by day. It's like, okay, well, we have today. What do we, we can talk about this, but then let's put it in a corner. Like, what are we going to do today? What time are we going to spend today? What, how can we?
00:14:28
Speaker
I mean, it's impossible to go through the day and not think about what's going on, but how can we compartmentalize it and do something else and have a nice dinner or have a nice walk? or Yeah, you can't have this be the topic every minute of every hour, every day. You won't accomplish anything. But you also can't pretend that it doesn't exist. So it's sort of like, what's that median? What's the what's the line that you can tell?
00:14:50
Speaker
you know and everyone all the doctors, all the therapists, everyone says to us, you know, be grateful for the time you have right now. It's like I am, but you also, this sucks. sucks yeah Yeah, there's no, you know, you, as I said earlier, you've seen the end of the movie and when we get the joke, but it's hard to find the balance and it's hard to find the positivity. I am grateful for so much and so many things that we have as a family, but I'm pissed too.
00:15:18
Speaker
And I think that I was spending a decent amount of time thinking there's a solution and then I realized that's a big waste of time. Some days I might be like, I'm really angry and I'm going to stay in bed and my back hurts and I don't want to move. And then other days you might be feeling great and want to go for a walk or go to an awesome dinner and go on a date with mom. but like it's not like you can plan that sometimes because some days I think the physical ah feelings but also the emotional feelings and more the mental stuff too like you don't know you're gonna wake up on a Tuesday and feel like ass but like you might and you don't know you're gonna wake up on the Thursday and feel amazing
00:15:51
Speaker
It took you like 20 minutes to get the word ass in. No, we said it a lot before just because we got it out of the system. before i got the room yeah yeah we my virgin i to guys as as as that That's always the mic check. What you raise. That's so impressive. you um You do raise the topic. You know, I don't want to disappoint your mom. Like she, I could have easily knock on out last night.
00:16:13
Speaker
Yes, I'm tired. And I'm, you know, whatever. And it hurts to walk or whatever, whatever unrelated to cancer. It's just a sciatica shoot. But you know, I also didn't want to disappoint her. Did you have fun? Yeah, we had a great time. It was it was fun. We had to take Carl home for five blocks. But but that's all lot but i think like thats that's not the takeaway of the evening. I think the takeaway is you had a great time together. And also when mom told us this morning, she didn't say that she said that you walked there. So I think that there's the other side of it. Yeah, it's when she pushes you in that way too, which I think is why I've always admired you guys as a couple. You guys are very different. And I think like you compliment each other and help each other grow very well. And like in this circumstance, whether it's like it might look like nagging, but like
00:16:58
Speaker
her mom like working on you to get you moving is all out of love and like that sometimes it's like yeah you could have stayed in and like some days you're gonna but like she pushed you to do it and you did it maybe not with the intention of you wanting to go and get sushi but like you wanted to be with her and make her happy and like it ended up being a drink date night. Going for her is a good enough reason to go and then it ends up being great. Totally you know once we get moving it's easy but But being motivated by making her happy is phenomenal for me because that's all I need. and that's I think that's always been your biggest motivator is making her and us. Well, I think that's what makes this even just going back to what you said at the beginning of this, like, that's what makes all this harder is it's in your head, it's never been about you. So to be then the person that's leaving us at a point is
00:17:47
Speaker
hard and I think you've always been so selfless and you've always been so focused on doing great things for us and putting us in the best positions whether that's in our day-to-day lives or where we were going to college or what we were doing extracurricularly like whatever we've ever done has always from you been about us and I mean I think that makes this all harder like I said before but it's also like your work is done and in a sense, like you've set us all up in such great spaces and you've created this amazing life for us that will go on in a worse way without you. But it's also like we've now been in the positions we've been in, been able to accomplish what we've done. I think because of you and the way that you've pushed us and focused on us for the last 30 X, however many years. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't minimize that you guys have done what you've done. You know, we've just tried to be enablers, but you know, you guys push yourselves along and you guys accomplish what you accomplish because of yourself, not because of me. Well, I think your motivation and your instilling in us that we can do whatever we want to do and supporting as we do it. Yeah. I would attribute, I think way more of it to you than you would to you, but that's, that's sort of just you. Well, that's consistent with the brand, right? Exactly. I was just going to say, it's all coming back to like you being humble and putting us above you and always doing that. But I also think I'm right.
00:19:12
Speaker
Well, no, we know. Why do you think Evan and I always think we're right we got that directly from you? that's been That's been your biggest burden this whole time, right? It's just being right consistently. Being right doesn't always make it work. Take notes, kids.
00:19:28
Speaker
i It's so great to walk through this journey with you from your point of view. I think we want to take a little break but then come back and talk about like not cancer stuff. This isn't easy to talk about all of the time but you've done it quite eloquently which obviously we expected because it's you. You're so eloquent. It's so handsome, so eloquent. Do you think anyone's still listening or have they shut their head in the door?