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E06: The Notion of Pre Grief
44 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, we unpack the notion of "pre-grieving"; what it is, our feelings and anxieties around it, and how we're working on trying to stay present while our minds constantly wander towards the unknown.
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Transcript
Surprise at Podcast's Impact
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, so we're back. We're back.
00:00:07
Speaker
First of all, I just, I think it's crazy. We just started this. So many more people tuned in than I thought would, which is amazing. And just so many people have reached out with not only positive wishes, but also their own stories, their own sort of anecdotes to how our first three episodes were helpful to them and their own situations. Just the outpouring has been astronomical and much bigger than I ever anticipated, which is pretty cool. I totally agree. I think it's almost at times overwhelming, but in such a wonderful way, because like you were saying, it's definitely touched a lot more people and sort of created this boundary where I think people are more likely or more comfortable talking to us that might not have been in the past. So that's been really positive for me, at least like having some conversations with people that I hadn't really talked to before, um which is where it's awkward to bring up if you're a friend of someone.
00:00:58
Speaker
but sort of like it's totally out there in the open now. So those conversations have become more easy. And I think that's been a positive addition to just talking and getting it all out. Yeah. It feels like the floodgates are open. Yes, the floodgates are open for sure. Like everyone's comfortable talking about everything now. So I'm excited to like, I don't know, just keep the conversations going and inspire more people to yap about shit in their heads.
00:01:24
Speaker
It's pretty good.
Exploring Anticipatory Grief
00:01:25
Speaker
So we've decided today to talk about the notion of anticipatory grief and Pre grieving which I guess is just a synonym for each other, but we talk about it a lot with each other We talk about it a lot with our family. We talk about it a lot in therapy So I guess what if you want to kick it off, what does pre grieving what has that process been like for you? What does that mean to you? I to me is a lot about time and a lot about the unknown. And at least our experience right now with this pre-grieving, what I'm feeling is an overwhelming sense of doom. It's almost like this dark cloud that doesn't necessarily ever go away.
00:02:05
Speaker
but it also doesn't have like, like it's just as ebbing and flowing. But in the sense of like, I don't know how long this cloud will be there. And when the cloud isn't there, like when death does happen, like that won't be better. But it is weirdly like this anticipation and this constant state of anxiety and not knowing if it's today or tomorrow or years from now and obviously hoping it's years from now, but that like unknown brings even more anxiety to me specifically when I think about the pre-grieving. I also think it's interesting because in some ways I feel like I'm mourning something that is still like I feel like sometimes I'm mourning dad but he's still there and he's still alive and he's very much himself too.
00:02:44
Speaker
So it's like that aspect hasn't happened yet where we feel like maybe he's acting different, at least I don't feel that way. But it's for me right now, a lot of anticipation and unknown, which is a big trigger for my anxiety. So also a lot of anxiety, yeah believe it or not. No, I mean, that I um feel really similarly, it makes a ton of sense. It's like the unknown has been such a weird, I don't know, I think it's like, you know, that your parents are going to die at some point, you you know, you live your life knowing you were going to die at some point, you know,
00:03:13
Speaker
in most cases, your parents are going to pass before you. And I feel like even before all of this, my biggest anxiety was like my friends and family dying. and I mean, it still is, but I would think about it all the time. I would get really worked up about it. And now I'm like, why, why was I freaking out about it then? Where now it's looming and it's coming and we don't know when, but we do know how. And I think just. And probably earlier than typical.
00:03:41
Speaker
Yeah, no. Like you said, it's nothing's changed drastically besides knowing in that this is coming, this is happening, and we can't really escape this unless there's some sort of miracle. But I think like i think going back to what we were talking about earlier today, like our experience with death has been with grandparents, pets like that, which was, I mean, very meaningful and it hurt.
Contrasting Grief Experiences
00:04:13
Speaker
And I think that we had a lot of trouble with it, especially with our grandparents, our dad's parents who we were extremely close with, but the way that they passed was also very drastically different and very different from this scenario too. So with with our grandmother, she was,
00:04:30
Speaker
seemingly fine and well and then had a stroke and passed in a couple of days so that was very sudden yeah like in the hospital a couple days yeah like you were saying and then super surreal super just like what's going on this is crazy there was almost like wasn't it was so sudden and that there wasn't enough time to process it right versus i feel like now i've processed what's going on with dad almost too much. Yeah. Um, like you can't ruminate on it because it just happened so quickly. It's like a freak health, stroke, accident, incident, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. That killed her and it was so horrible and so sad. And like, but it it just there wasn't enough time to think about it almost.
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah, no, I mean, I feel like I blacked out like her entire ship. People will tell stories about I don't remember either. I literally don't remember a thing like not a thing. I remember her one friend Joan coming up to me and being like, Did you eat enough this morning? And I was like, Oh, she's back. Like, but yeah, other than that, I really don't remember. any of it Um, but yeah, it was a crazy, it was just a huge burst of emotions. And I also think that that was the first time, at least for me, that I had really seen dad like cry. I had never seen him like, ah I mean, we had to like maybe on occasion, but that emotionally vulnerable, like being in the hospital with him losing his parent. I remember for the first time I was like, what is my role in this? Like this is a woman who I loved who I was so close with. I mean, I lived with them for a summer. i Like I, it was such a big loss for me, but I see my dad.
00:05:58
Speaker
losing his mom. And I, I was just like, it just added to sort of the what's going on. This feels like not a real universe. This is so just sudden and just like raw burst of crazy emotions where I feel like, I mean, this process is obviously so different, but it is so different, but it's just interesting what you were saying about seeing dad in that vulnerable state and how that pulled on your heartstrings because I feel the same way. Like,
00:06:25
Speaker
I obviously was grieving the loss of my grandparent and my grandmother who we loved so much and she was such a crazy amazing force. But what hurt the most for me and what I remember feeling at least was like seeing dad being upset and like feeling helpless but wanting to help him. And I think it was the first in instance like I'd seen him cry before he cried when our basketball team lost in the finals in Metro West.
00:06:53
Speaker
fourth grade because he was my coach. And he cried and that was the first time I saw him cry because I cried and he started crying and it was really cute. But he's always very been fueled by our emotions. Like when we laugh he laughs when we cry he cries. That doesn't count. Like did he really care about the Metro North team losing? No he just was sad that I was bawling. I just wanted to make sure because yeah that'd be weird. For sure. But I just remember that's like the first time but this was like the first time I saw him in pain and sad. Yeah. And I was like oh my gosh like you are not just my dad who's perfect and fixes everything like you are a real human being with emotions and granted that comes that realization that your parents are real people comes with time and that's something i've actually discussed a lot with my friends recently i think graduating college and getting a job and being in the real world whatever people call it like has shined that like for a lot of us in different ways and it's shattering it's really weird it feels like you're losing your innocence or your own childhood in some ways to be selfish
00:07:49
Speaker
but like it is so interesting and I think I'm tangenting, I'm sorry. But him seeing his, like the loss of a parent is just forever a very different thing. I think for him in that situation, for mom when she lost her dad, when dad lost his dad and I don't know, I just think it is a very different, as much as you love and love a grandparent, like your parents are parent at the other day. Yeah. And I think it matures the relationship between us and our parents too. Cause you see them go through this and for once like,
00:08:17
Speaker
we're comforting them. like we're yeah We're trying to be there for them and it's hard to know how to do that. It's awkward almost.
The Complexity of Grief and Love
00:08:25
Speaker
It is. It's really awkward. I remember being in the hospital and like holding dad and dad was crying and I was like, this just feels so reverse. like This is weird, but I guess this is this is our adult relationship and we can be equals in times like this and I don't know It was the whole experience was nuts. Um, and then just sort of to, to tie it back to pre grieving, the dichotomy between the way that we lost grandma and the way that we lost pop up was couldn't have been more different. Um, he, our grandfather, honestly, like smartest person I've ever met. Same. Just incredibly intelligent. So poised. Um, very successful. Very successful. He had a surgery.
00:09:08
Speaker
that sort of jump-started dementia for him. I would also argue grandma's death jump-started it too. but It all sort of happened right around the same time. It was, I think it was an accumulation of things. I don't know, but ah yes that's I actually think you're exactly right. Impacted it a bit. Yes. I remember being in the hospital while Grandma was dying and Popup was like saying, like he already was sounding really off. And I was like, Oh, maybe he's,
00:09:35
Speaker
just going through it. But he never really bounced back from that. Yeah, which is reasonable. He lost love his life suddenly. Yeah, I know the whole thing was crazy. But but anyway, um with him and his dementia, I think it really took a toll on dad specifically. He didn't want to admit that he was getting more sick. And he didn't want to admit that, okay, he probably can't live on his own. I think we need to move him into a facility or have around the clock care. And that was so hard.
00:10:04
Speaker
like i mean When we moved Pop from his house to a care center, like Mom and I packed up their condo and moved him because it was too hard for Dad. Also, I think it was so hard for Dad because he knew Pop up didn't want to do it. Of course. He was vocalizing that to his son because they have had and continue to have such an amazing relationship. but Like I can't imagine here, like hearing your father be like, I don't want to do this at all. Why do you need, why am I going to do this? And you know, it's the best thing for them. And just to mention itself is such a devastating, devastating disease and watching your loved one go through that and like try to not lose it, but not understand maybe what's always going on. Like the progression being so quick too. It's just so devastating. Um, well you try to protect them and you try to like in your head, you try to think that it's not happening.
00:10:54
Speaker
So then when they do something and that maybe is a little off, I think it's easier to be like, oh no, he always used to do that. or and And I feel like I'm anticipating us at some point also doing that with dad, which is hard too, because it's so similar to the way that we saw we saw him go through it with his dad. But anyway, I think like just to tie it again back to to the anticipatory grief, like with pop-up, he was just declining, declining, declining.
00:11:19
Speaker
When he did pass, it was awful and terrible, but I really felt like we had been mourning him, the guy we knew, for such a much longer time. So it's still hit, like it's still sort of ripped out our hearts, but not in such a different way. It wasn't shocking. Right. It was unbelievable and it was sad, but it wasn't like that. We knew it was coming for so long. Yes. It was a different feeling than we felt with grandma. And I also think we'll pop up past away during like the beginning heart of COVID so we couldn't say goodbye in person. Yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker
i think if that if we had not had this anticipatory grieving before and like you were saying sort of making peace like every time i said bye to him when we'd see him like i'd give him the big hug and a kiss and not say goodbye but i'd like we didn't i'd remember it yes you wouldn't know and i think that not being able to say goodbye didn't broke my heart yeah but we had been saying goodbye for a couple years in in a different way versus like if we weren't holding grandma's hand in person like i don't that would have been never would have felt and it's not saying one is better than the other there's not any way you can say a sudden death is easier than greeting a death for years i don't think it is it's just different and there's aspects that are similar and hurt the same and then there's ways that hurt or that are completely different and it's interesting to experience both and just like feel differently i don't know that doesn't sound very smart but no but i mean that's exactly right and i think a lot of people have been on both sides of the coin unfortunately and it's
00:12:48
Speaker
Like you said, nothing neither one's better, neither one's worse. It's just, it's different. It's a different way of processing, and a different way to sort of wrap your head around your emotions. And then again, like grandparents versus parents, like it's bigger. It's, I don't know, like I'm, it's just a whole different skill set that we're learning how to deal with and cope with. Totally.
Coping with Anticipatory Grief
00:13:05
Speaker
Okay. So I feel like you defined pre-grief, pre-grieving, anticipatory grief, whatever we're calling it at the beginning of this.
00:13:13
Speaker
um Just to give ourselves and our listeners a ah formal definition. yeah As much as I'm always right, it might be nice to put some professionals in here. This is the AI overview. So anticipatory grief is a feeling of loss or grief that occurs before the actual loss. It can be experienced by people who are facing their own death or the death of a loved one. Why do I feel like I'm reading the, like, why is this night different from all of us?
00:13:40
Speaker
I just read it in that exact voice that I do at Passover. Yes, but that's not your line at Passover. It's mine and the youngest. No, I know, but it was the Passover voice. It was. It's like the public speaking voice. How is this grief different from all other griefs? Well. Anyway, so that's the definition. And then, oh, let's go for the symptoms. That's fun. All right. Sadness, anger, loneliness, or guilt. OK. Check, check, check, check, check. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
00:14:09
Speaker
difficulty sleeping or concentrating. Oh, I've also been experiencing that. How about you? For sure. For sure. um Anxiety or fear about the future. Not at all. Never. Yeah, never at that. um no or after short this never For sure. For sure. Numbness or disbelief. That's a big one.
00:14:26
Speaker
yeah it's interesting because i had that a lot initially and i still have it yeah and i will forever still have it but it's like that very much ends for me it totally ebbs and flows for me too i texted one of my friends the other day i have other friends who liza oh we can't use names she doesn't care um i texted my friend the other day and i asked her just about because i've this is sort of my ab of the numbness as i think this last week i've been feeling that numbness like i'm really crying i'm just sort of like floating through life like feeling a little disassociated um and i texted her and i was like can you let me know if i start to lose my sparkle because oh that's really cute well i just i want to be aware because you know i mean we're
00:15:11
Speaker
It's hard and not that knowing that I'm not as sparkly is going to help me then be sparkly again, but I think- No, but it might be because I feel like whenever I lose mine, I don't know until after and when I start to get it back. I told her, I was like, I want to know so I can not fall deeper into that. I want to know the second that you think that I'm not okay. What did she say? She actually said, it was very sweet. She was like, I have not noticed that. I think you're doing great.
00:15:38
Speaker
And she was like, I've actually been paying very close attention and doing a lot of work behind the scenes, just to always make sure that you're okay. And but i really I literally, that actually broke, I did cry when she was texting me, it broke my numbness and disassociation. um So that was sweet, but yeah. Anyway, um so we're experiencing that. ah Mood swings. I'm gonna have a- Mood swings. You know what's up? No. Oh, it's good. I know. Little Sims. Oh, okay, I'll check it out. It's good.
00:16:07
Speaker
Um, yeah, I don't know. I definitely have been having mood swings. My therapist last week told me I was appropriately manic. I'm going to adopt that phrase. Cause I looked, I was, I was talking a mile a minute. Appropriately man. And I skipped the week before because I forgot and I have been a little, this week specifically a little more on my like hyper aspects. So I looked at her during the session. I was like, after speaking a mile a minute and I go, do you think I'm being really manic right now? I feel like I'm being really manic right now. And she said, you know what?
00:16:38
Speaker
Hayley, I think you're being appropriately manic. I'm obsessed with that. I'm obsessed with appropriate mania. That is wonderful. Yeah. um Okay, so mood swings checked. ah fun Keep going. Shock. I thought you just said shots.
00:16:53
Speaker
shots have you been taking shots that's one of the symptoms um shock yeah i mean i think shock goes hand in hand with numbness in my opinion but yeah me too i think it's the same stage all right ai i have notes for you um withdrawal from others um yes and no i think i've really taken a lot of effort with people and like i've surrounded myself with a lot of friends and like i've spent a lot of more time with you and i think I like doing that more, but I've definitely been surrounding myself with specific people that give me energy and give me make me feel comfortable and supported versus yeah going and spending time with people that sort of suck the energy out of me. i actually I totally agree. I think I've been spending a lot of time with what I call my low social battery friends. Yes, exactly. That's what I'm getting at. I can be on 10%, but we can just sit there and that's okay.
00:17:39
Speaker
and I didn't realize how performative I am in like a group of people until I stopped performing and then I was sitting at drinks or like a dinner or something the other week and I was just not feeling like I was not feeling it.
00:17:55
Speaker
And I was like, oh my gosh, this conversation is dull. Without my sparkle. Without my sparkle, without my performance. um No, I mean, and that's that's dramatic. But i I think I've been doing the same thing. One of the things that I was talking to my therapist about was just like, I'm doing things. I'm going out, I'm seeing friends, but I don't want to do them. And and I miss I really miss wanting to do stuff and I want to do some stuff but just I feel like I used to be like going out every night like I always had plans I always had dinner always had drinks and yeah I think that it's also part of growing up and getting older and just needing to have more time for yourself but I do miss like getting really excited about plans. So that makes sense.
00:18:37
Speaker
i just have a follow-up question yeah i know you don't feel excited before you go to have fun in the moment totally yes and i think that's the anticipatory back to anticipatory things but it's the and it's like the anticipation of going out and probably not put words in your mouth but like some anxiety around that i'm sure some of it's anxiety and i'm and i think some of it is also just like a depressive mood of me just not like i would rather just sit on my couch and that's sad that's never been me Um, but it is me right now and I'm trying to like know when to push myself or when to sort of give myself grace and be like, all right, Emma, like you can spend Sunday on your couch. yes You, you did a good job and and you're a little hungover. I do think that that is so important, the balance of it all. And it's sort of like what mom and dad have always said to us, like everything in moderation. Yep. And it is literally the best advice I've ever heard because it is so applicable to every part of life. And I think that I sort of have been doing the opposite where I love being distracted and I feel like
00:19:31
Speaker
when it's a weekend that I'm in the city and I'm not at home. I'm making a dinner plan and a drink plan and I'm going to this birthday party and this birthday party and then oh during the day when I'm not at the birthday party I have to go shopping and it's nice it's fun but that's sort of feeding into my appropriate mania. We're like I need to slow down a little and I think I need to personally work on that balance because having plans is super fun for me but I also like have never been more exhausted than I was yesterday and the day before because I overdid it. Well it feels a little avoided.
00:19:59
Speaker
like It's the most avoidant. I'm home and I'm dealing with it and then I'm here and I like am completely shutting it off not talking about it and that's not healthy but like what's healthy? I don't know like I think that's the whole like we don't have the answers to this that's why I sort of for myself at least just try to take it day by day and I don't I just see how I'm feeling. The last one this is a big one preoccupation with replaying scenarios in your head.
Balancing Gratitude and Grief
00:20:24
Speaker
You want to take that first?
00:20:25
Speaker
I mean not really. I just sort of like I play out like how this is going to go all the time and I think about the end and I think about funeral service and it sucks and it sucks. We've never talked about that. We've never talked about this. I don't even know if I want to right now. I don't really either but I definitely think it's interesting because I will have those like visions and thoughts but they're like the way that it happens for me or they're just very specific. Like it's like yeah it'll be like the outfit I'm wearing. Honestly same.
00:20:52
Speaker
or like a speech. Yeah. No, but it's not like it. It's like a very sensory. I don't know where I am, but it's wooden. Like I'm in this. It is wooden. Okay. Weird. I don't, I think it's a little too dark for me today. it is We don't want to do it, but we could talk about this another day, another episode. Yeah. Um,
00:21:11
Speaker
He's a big one. We've also never talked about it, so maybe we need to do it offline first. Off air? No, it's the the replaying scenarios. It's the wicked dreams. But it's scary. And I think like it's the before bed mind racing. Yeah, that's always yeah. Yeah. So I think it's safe to say based on the scent hum symptoms ah presented by AI, we check, check, check. Yeah, no, we are absolutely I mean, before reading that, I could tell you that we are pre grieving. Add that to the list of diagnoses.
00:21:40
Speaker
Well, I also think it's interesting like the word or the term I guess pre grieving isn't one that we just sort of came up with I think it was presented by the hospital and by the therapists on dad's team too when we met with them it's just like a concept that is very common with people diagnosed with terminal illness and their loved ones that are diagnosed with a terminal illness and It's really interesting because I just want to share something that um, just because I guess this is a topic we've talked about with dad with mom with Lucy with our whole family with our friends like this idea of that awkward in between of I'm grieving but like he's still alive but I'm anticipatorily grieving but I'm also grieving this time right now and yada yada the therapist for mom and dad basically had this idea of um gratitude and guilt and more so thinking about
00:22:29
Speaker
having gratitude over guilt and how when you're grieving and going through this concept of pre-grieving you feel sometimes these feelings of guilt or anger or a million of symptoms that Emma just was spelling out um rattling off rattling off but at the same time like especially in our case i think and a lot of the love and care that we have for each other there's a lot of gratitude that comes from it too but i don't take this as a silver lining like kind of bullshit thing i actually think it's very true because with all of this grief we're feeling we're also like there's gratitude and i'm so grateful that yeah i love dad this much and i am so sad because he's so amazing and i'm angry about that of course but we're how lucky are we to have such a wonderful person in our lives that like his sickness impacts us this much i think i i hold on to that all the time and that's sort of what
00:23:24
Speaker
keeps
Staying Present and Resilient
00:23:25
Speaker
me going, I think. It's like everything I'm feeling so deeply and so fiercely is because we love so much and he's loved us so much. And like that is hard, but I would never wish it another way. Like, yeah, I wish this process was easier, but to trade an easier or different process for less of an amazing relationship, like no way. So yeah, I mean, like you said, we've weve talked about this with the family social worker,
00:23:54
Speaker
I think we've talked about this in our own therapy sessions. And it's like they tell you, oh, just be in the moment, be present, be with him, spend time. And it's, it is so hard. I mean, when we're with him, when we're at home, like,
00:24:07
Speaker
We talk about this all the time because it's always in our heads. It's ever present. Same with his too. like It's always in his head too. Yeah. It's like, we have great moments and then it's like, we're not going to have those. And you're it's sort of, all right, we're having a great dinner. And I already miss the dinners that we're not going to have with him. And yeah it's really hard. I can hear time and time again, stay at present, stay in the moment, be happy for what you have. And it doesn't make it less hard. like it It's just really hard. It's really hard. and I also feel like I struggle with it personally thinking futuristically, like whether it's thinking about like my grad school graduation, which is like in a year and like I'll be there for sure. I know he will, but like, or more future things for me that aren't happening now and won't happen now. And it's just that sort of weird, because again, it's sort of back to that like scenarios that more of the symptoms you were saying.
00:24:58
Speaker
yeah like playing out scenarios. yes playing out scenarios like i feel like when i think about the future and again back to this like anticipation and the unknown and that intertwining thinking about the future is really hard for me personally yeah in a lot of different ways but i don't know i think you were so making such a good point with how much of like this emotion is connected to love and i saw something the other day that was talking about the connection between grief and love. grief just brings up a lot of emotion and a lot of love in our case and care and also those other emotions too and that just makes it all so confusing because there's not a right way to feel there's not a right way to think there's not a right way to act and
00:25:38
Speaker
it's constantly changing and doing these ups and downs of depression and these ups and downs of appropriate mania and all of this stuff and it's really weird and it makes like me feel out of control and then that feeds into anxiety and it's just lets like pretty ass cycle if you ask me. It is an ass cycle. But yeah, I don't know. I think I like what you said day by day. I'm going to take that on or at least try easier said than done, of course. But give yourself grace, push yourself where you can. That's always and that's how I'm trying to do it. Okay. So give yourself grace.
00:26:08
Speaker
day by day, everything in moderation, throwing another three martinis. Oh, it's two not three. You can't have three. Yeah, we learned that the hard way. You can't have three. Um, but yeah, more cliches. What's that one? That's like saying goodbye. It's so hard because you've loved something so much.
00:26:24
Speaker
or how lucky it is to make saying goodbye so hard. oh but I hate that one. What is that? I don't know. like how hot heads like How lucky am I? I'm thinking of like that poster that Mom put in your room.
00:26:39
Speaker
um but She like sensed that we were a little down in the dumps and like traipsed upstairs with a Winnie the Pooh quote that's like, I will always be with you. No, no, no. It gets better because we, so we moved. So a lot of our crap is still in storage. Cause like, Oh yeah, no, no. They know cause mom talked about it on her episode. Oh yes, of course. I forgot. Of course she did. Um, so my mother one day like notices like I'm a little down in the dumps and we're home during this weekend. And so she drives to storage.
00:27:08
Speaker
gets a massive like that was not the only reason why she went to storage was it no but it's a big thing that she added to the list no she had another reason to go to storage but she comes back with a massive ass probably like what like three by two feet easy like easily three by two feet wooden piece of like a Winnie the Pooh book that's like if there ever comes a day when we can't be together you must always remember you are braver than you believe stronger than you feel and smarter than you think and I'll always be with you. And I'm like, she starts hammering in my room. I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, oh, just hanging this up, darling. This is so weird. Do you want me to start crying? No, I mean, she doesn't. She wants to help us get through our emotions. It's so cute. But we just do emotions so differently from her. I remember when we were moving out of the old house. I was just going to say when we were moving. And she got being like, last night in the house, and rubbing our backs. I mean, there's so many
00:27:59
Speaker
She was like handing me tissues throughout the day. I was like, wait, I already cried. I think she wants us to unlock our emotions because I don't think that you or I do is specifically a specifically good job, which is ironic because now we're like publicly speaking about all of this stuff. But I think that was part of our, okay, let's do this because it's so out of our comfort zone. Like yeah we don't do emotions as deeply as like other people that I know. That's true. And mom just tries to rain them on out all the time. She tries to like wring out my tears like a washcloth.
00:28:27
Speaker
No, I mean, it's really cute. Like, I'd so much rather that than someone who's like tells me to toughen up and like, no, she's like, cry. Why are you crying? Cry. No, she's like, she like, she wants, she's so nurturing and so wonderful that like, she wants to like, wait my tears and hold me when I cry. She wants to like, swaddle the fuck out of us.
Family Dynamics and Emotional Expressions
00:28:47
Speaker
She always wants to swaddle. Maybe she misses us as babies. Like, I don't know what it is. Probably. Probably a lot nicer than. Yeah, no. I mean, I just think she's great. Anyway,
00:28:56
Speaker
now that we've gone off on 12 million tangents and also somehow got to the Winnie the Pooh poster um and made it all the way through the symptoms i think we've touched on these already just our own coping mechanisms but like i'm just curious what the ai recommended coping mechanisms are for pre-grieving honestly i would love to hear that because i feel like my personal ones are getting a little stale okay well i don't know if you're gonna like these At all, actually. Oh, shit. I wish I'd read this before. um Reach out to people who can help. That's, I mean, we try. Consider counseling with a therapist, minister, priest, or rabbi. Okay, well, let's get all four. Let's get all four and interview them we know would get on a panel on the next podcast episode. I want that panel. Now I'm thinking about the pie paper. Fuck.
00:29:45
Speaker
Um, sorry, express yourself through art, music, journaling, or poetry. Oh my God. I did that last night. I know. You just did that base class or whatever. No. What was it? We went to, um, it's an art cafe. Happy medium. Have you heard about it? No, I never really want to go. I'm kind of upset about me. I'll go again. Oh, we can go with Will or something. It'll be really fun. And it's like, so it's this art cafe. Um, I thought they'd serve wine, but they didn't. And I think that makes sense. Cause I think everyone's project would be a little bad, but you can watercolor one of my roommates watercolored. Um,
00:30:15
Speaker
You can do pottery, which is what I did. I painted a vase or a vase, whatever they called. Either way, it was stunning. It was so cute, little flowers on it. It's in the kiln right now, we'll see. There's like mugs, there's bowls. Wait, you know pottery doesn't always make it to the kiln, are you worried? No, because I did ceramics one and two in high school, so I think I'm fine. One and two? Yes. I got like a B in two, though. It's really embarrassing. It's quite hard. But yeah, that was something that I don't usually do, and my friends suggested it.
00:30:44
Speaker
And it was like such a lovely Sunday activity. And like we had to treat ourselves to a dinner or too. And I think that's something now I want to do a little bit more of. I think I must get into collaging because I think that I can't draw. And I feel like we could collaging is like a good way or doing air clay. What's air clay? Oh, oh. It's all magic. Yeah, that's fun. But I'm like collaging more. I think it's a little more adult than airli air clay. Air clay is like fidgety, like ADHD. I think collaging is like so and you could hang that shit up. Let's collage together. I love it.
00:31:14
Speaker
die for like a hodgepodge glue yes they smell so good i just like they're not supposed to smell like that i put them all over my fingers and peel off yes yes oh wait so let's do a craft night news just because we're not like traditionally artistic doesn't mean that we can't collage yeah everyone can do that and my friends have been really advertising or influencing me to do it and maybe that's their way of sort of making sure my sparkle doesn't diminish but you're like get out the hodgepodge you sparkling less like hey i feel like you'd really like collaging like Okay. But no, i think i would remanitated I think it would be a good thing for us to try. Cause I actually really had a lovely experience doing that. What better way to deal with your op appropriate mania? Yes. Then to like collage and be like here. Um, okay. So that's a good one. Talk about your feelings. Okay. That's idiotic. but We're doing that. I know, but like no shit. Um, address legal, financial and funeral issues. That's okay. Yeah. Well, it's great, but yeah. All right.
00:32:09
Speaker
Um, discuss future plans. Okay. I don't think we like do, and I know our situations have flew in and up in the air, but like I want to like book a trip and have something to look forward to. The only things that I look forward to, honestly, right now is like, okay, I know when we're going back to Boston and I know what we're going to see moment out again. And that that's like, I look forward to that. So maybe that is the future plan. But that's also like, i' I have like all of February booked and it's making me feel a lot better.
00:32:32
Speaker
Okay. Well, it's going home, going to Florida, going skiing. And then like, I want to book spring break too with like you and mom and dad and Lucy, if she can come and like do something. And I think the, those like positive things to anticipate sort of like takes away the bad anticipation feelings too. Okay. Well, that's a good one. Um, last but not least identify and address any concerns before the loss. I mean, like I'm concerned that he's going to die. I'm concerned that there will be a loss. Like that's concerning. But I think that's again, our gratitude aspect.
00:33:02
Speaker
we're grateful that we don't have any like major concerns or like reparations to make yes yes any reparations to make anything to um like get off our chest anything we don't have to like get closure with anything that's right but yeah but yeah that's a weird one i sort of this whole experience do you know the um comedian robin shawl not well but yes like of the way that she got famous was she had that viral video like right before covet of things that you wanted to do in 2020 and she was like reading them and obviously none of them happened because it was COVID. And then she's like, spend more time with my grandma. My grandma died. This whole conversation just reminded me of that video. um I think she's so funny. AI got us this far. I feel like we can close it out by, ah I don't know, why don't you read your ghost star? Sure.
00:33:49
Speaker
Okay so co-stars this app that my one of my good friends is really into astrology. Actually two of them are. I feel like a lot of your friends are low-key into astrology. Two of them really are most are. You have like a lot of space
Astrology and Self-Reflection
00:34:00
Speaker
girls. I do yeah and they in college were like one night were looking at me and they were like you are such a Scorpio but Sagittarius cusp which is what I am. I'm the last day of Scorpio but I have a little Sag in me whatever that means.
00:34:14
Speaker
And that sounds dirty. It does. I'm a little sad. Okay. Anyway, they convinced me to get co-star and it's a funny, like little app where you just get, you plug in like your birthday time that you were born, all that stuff. And it gives you your rising your moon. I don't know what those mean, but anyway, it gives you just a sort of like little synopsis of the day. And it has a do's and a don'ts category, which I think is the best one. So maybe I can share mine.
00:34:40
Speaker
Okay. So the synopsis for mine, it says good morning, HJ. That's me. It's 33 degrees and sunny today at a glance. Self self soothe. It's a tongue twister, but sure. So Mike, New York, my dues gray areas, life rafts.
00:34:58
Speaker
Safewords. I don't understand. These are things that you're supposed to do. Yes. And they're supposed to do life rafts. Come on. You have to like be a little open. Don't jealousy, double dip, compulsive texts, double dipping hummus. Yeah.
00:35:13
Speaker
and Salsa you're not supposed to compulsive text. Yes, and I know so it's like interesting it sort of came at me Okay, that's sort of bad. Let's do let me just read the whole thing every day It says a little synopsis of things and there's like something you have power in and something you have trouble with So right now I'm powering a lot. I have power in routine thinking and creativity spirituality Social life and self and I have trouble with sex and love. Okay, whatever.
00:35:38
Speaker
breeze over that. um So let's keep going. It says, um, you have important decisions to make today. It is just as important to establish that you're making them for the right reasons. You have to do it yourself. Your work this month is to submerge yourself in what you've always considered petty human emotion. What?
00:35:57
Speaker
This is a big step for you who says things need to change without always offering a better better alternative. Build new bridges. The broader focus of your life during this time is to consider what you're fighting for before you decide to get ruthless. Nobody will understand you unless you get clear with yourself first. That's all interesting. and Enough. I mean, do you think it applies to you? Like bits and pieces, maybe. Bits and pieces, maybe. I probably shouldn't double dip. No. And you probably shouldn't compulsive text. And I probably shouldn't jealousy. You shouldn't jealousy.
00:36:26
Speaker
But I don't know, like some of that stuff in there was talking about like not getting too frustrated, setting goals for yourself, meeting those
Future Topics and Camaraderie
00:36:33
Speaker
goals. like working I think so much of it was working on yourself, which I feel like is a lot of what we talked about just in terms of working through this process. And like working on yourself before showing emotion to other people, which I think is very important. so Well, all good things. They kind of ate. Kind of ate on a date board. It's a fun little thing. Maybe I should start doing it. I'm scared though. But sometimes sometimes it's really mean. like Sometimes I'll be like,
00:36:54
Speaker
anxious about something and it'll be like, you should be. Like it sometimes can get worth less. Yeah, I don't know. It's like I don't have the citizens up. It's like that scares me. See that makes me feel better. I can't explain it. All right. Um, this was great. I feel like you and I have like new topics that we can discuss offline, which is fun and interesting. And yeah, I thought we had exhausted everything. Same. And that's a really big one that I haven't talked to anyone about honestly. So I'd love to chat with you offline. Perfect. Let's go get some chicken dumplings at the Odeon. And maybe a glass of wine. Obviously a glass of wine. Perfect.
00:37:23
Speaker
alright well see you next time