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11. Den tibetanske dødeboken
82 Plays21 days ago
i denne episoden snakker Jannicke Wiel med Henrik Mathisen, oversetter av Den tibetanske dødeboken. Hva kan dette kjente skriftet fra den tibetanske buddhistiske tradisjonen lære oss om livet og døden? Mathisen forteller om de ulike lagene av bevissthet og hva det vil si å leve sant.
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Guest
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome to a new podcast in Polism-podden. I'm Janneke Wiel and I'm glad to have with me Henrik Mathisen, who is kupunctur and a tidal Buddhist monk.
00:00:27
Speaker
He has written the Døde book, which I'm sure many have heard of, but maybe not many have read. So I would background, how you came to the book, and how you can learn today.
00:00:46
Speaker
Welcome,
Henrik's Journey into Buddhism
00:00:47
Speaker
Henry. Can you tell little bit about what has been your own journey?
00:00:55
Speaker
Thank you for being with me. It was a pleasure to be My reise, the... The reise of my reise, went back to many ways. I started with Tibetan Buddhism. Back the beginning the 90s. I was out and reised in the East and came to India. I met a couple friends and friends.
00:01:14
Speaker
yeah um thought i stay ahno that um in that threat
00:01:21
Speaker
somemit per nero We were very greped of the
00:01:38
Speaker
We had to be needed to see deeper in and take us forward. So it resulted in a few years later that I was Buddhist monk in Tibetan tradition.
Study and Translation of Tibetan Buddhism
00:01:51
Speaker
I was three
00:01:55
Speaker
years ago. It was a trang that to a more contemplative life. have I was only a couple of years old, so I was young.
00:02:10
Speaker
But the trang was very strong.
00:02:14
Speaker
so attract bread but also things some me <unk> you only say but longed in the room example doesli but mar mu comma callpu a carrado they live very off And to some bread import else so i shnt let the back um me yeah at all my ya somemor um or they not good um aly so mens cannot turn some and
00:02:50
Speaker
I don't have the culture to do it, but the understanding what is universal. So I understood that I had to take care of culture and take my own body. And then it so long It's interesting to be Buddhist live in
00:03:34
Speaker
and was very unsicher on many things both in my life and around this with inner force so I searched there and of course there are many cultural barriers there are many barriers there are many barriers and so on and when I got into I met someone who could talk about the same things in the English and saw her very clearly I began to would say actually began.
00:04:08
Speaker
thererefore but then for the assessment So the this is the inspiration my mind. for that and so davidc i and and who but inspirations shield
00:04:29
Speaker
yeahha one will disand that i saw ah ya must your da da do vo monkeyla e india puinna non theal po theallthough i ask You they i student or haber ti blackti de cluster or hab belierio meditation practice.
00:04:48
Speaker
For me,
Teachings of the Tibetan Døde Book
00:04:48
Speaker
yoga and meditation was fascinating the lourdes you had, which was quite like on many ways, but also slightly different than the practice I had. I think it's very interesting what you say about come back to the essence of these practices.
00:05:07
Speaker
It's like when you go into a the very interesting meditation,
00:05:24
Speaker
or haveb then and had a I
00:05:40
Speaker
You were asked by Gyldendal to oversource the Tibetan Døde-book. It was it. Two years after I got a question from Yildad if I could have been able to do it. it was bit art.
00:05:56
Speaker
studied Tibetan language two years in India and then I ended up the monk period. So it always happened. It was very big transition. never had event and and subraan and stu overagon menelssohn andmong moretan even nonganwa or point sound thought that ti but the com It
00:06:21
Speaker
So I got the
00:06:35
Speaker
they're like can kiss send madam them book and how i hurt um and It's clear the contents of the contents of the contents of the central point in the Tibetan Buddhist philosophy.
00:06:52
Speaker
What that for? The view of life, human consciousness, and the consciousness. So it's just a certain context. What the is about? How do you prepare for death?
00:07:07
Speaker
ah forber decided jordan Tibetaners use the ao debut q text for the end.
00:07:21
Speaker
well then i'll do this baby step bold it dot sp assessment and also yet the first of all that i not besstead are no deep but and we call The is is you call it self?
00:07:42
Speaker
They don't use the word.
00:07:48
Speaker
and to call this um we to all their share so the but cri the ambiguda and They call it dypere lag of the consciousness. That we dypest is direct consciousness. There lot to say about what it is, but what they describe as deepest nature is,
00:08:10
Speaker
or they me'll see um what while they item and and there's some aor d they basically version more deep is the not to It's called this way, the men's thinking of a mystery.
00:08:34
Speaker
see the room men for is notitude and a baby st deep is a lot to add u latin room scop its put that more um hopefulfo <unk>sky at to gitormit and is of a all have a expression for. And what they call Buddha, also a broken consciousness. So this is something deeper than the the
00:09:18
Speaker
so their book and per are so for oh they however report on this saypo du all that server like carefully say poor in that serverlic case or all that is also log get over log on ki so can they follow the board autouted and processing the v sta do as not to restore the block the a we have the team yeah file boto the m sort of bo yeah and So they understand this object as a object for deep insight, or what they call the end of the life.
00:09:51
Speaker
So the text goes on to the way to the process of the dødness of the spirit of the process for the deepness of the nature. So this is a great opportunity for death, also a potent object for clarity.
Cultural Relevance in Norway
00:10:03
Speaker
the availabl tent diali for client
00:10:08
Speaker
I think it's been a
00:10:21
Speaker
I've known some who were dead and sent them thinking about going on the light, going on the light, going on the light. I'm thinking about the idea or the idea I They are in a process where they can be able to has been tough, maybe a body that has been sick.
00:10:45
Speaker
Now it's a possibility to go on a kind three hat man but four is stealing yaha um ah do it come loud and cheaper youing ah but have a scar help father a i knock your till i thank you i see that tian paumad know that dey forian not and sit room madame and they buying some se that at the boot sco but oo yeah and and how are you oftenbark at tibe to and aharentra but vily other or make a share so much very certain or in and on tilsta
00:11:18
Speaker
What do they and some sit weather slightly until And yeah oh yeah and so beal the south la and than some so make books from theel denied and night event some So it's a little bit of a heart-like relationship. relationship. Is this something you think we can use in Norge for helping people in a death process? Or is this so filled with cultural involvement that it actually doesn't seem relevant for us?
00:12:08
Speaker
I don't know how to use the book in our culture. The book is so cultural, so it gives its own way to work more fremmed. I think that in such a way, it's just what it is.
00:12:22
Speaker
or comp among a multi body which became a film but are not where through the and so some side and that looked there some hard or and heart, which is essential.
00:12:38
Speaker
So maybe the same principle, but not to use the text in a different culture. you have no idea of having a heart-related relationship with these things, then it's an old way. But I think that's the point.
00:12:54
Speaker
of The heart-related relationship with this, and the pictures they use. simbo debqueil a deb So it's clear that it's been recognized for them, but not needed for us.
00:13:08
Speaker
I know that for you, this book is not first and foremost about death, but about life.
Insights into Consciousness
00:13:17
Speaker
And it's maybe that the book can say something about life, that it has the most to make us.
00:13:25
Speaker
Is it so? In the last book gave out, which was also writing ku titles that summer but to check my my flaman schedule um ah than some talo um onbuka so log review thelin it ten tibotonski dot booken may some tolerant live but yeah how are you it a the absolute i um but also sonok maggues theyre less and um and bocom live oh they how do you me oh that the book in its contents is description of all the layers of the consciousness, so they understand the consciousness. From the daily consciousness of the person, to the deepest nature of the consciousness, which they call it, which is called the clear light consciousness. So it's an association with the light of the consciousness.
00:14:15
Speaker
so clear light consciousness so so they are absoluteol and also social they leas on the the deepest This is really exciting.
00:14:26
Speaker
Can you the The
00:14:42
Speaker
We have all sorts of thoughts about and about it. This law of consciousness?
00:14:55
Speaker
yeah so theio soular mono game game and the come the call the shocks hollocks three are daily link and't get offset this as We
00:15:09
Speaker
thank you first sir off or corrupt
00:15:15
Speaker
and somean channel some total channel i had adult ti v It's always a change. The tank and is always a they in the back of the way they call it a wakened heart.
00:15:37
Speaker
And our psyches area is that we experience an anand, a different and different. um the upli arms on the old shields of shiley hat That it's a grunnlegged of distance between things.
00:15:49
Speaker
Things are actually not so very together. So with insight and the feeling of the brain, so that everything is in a relationship.
00:16:02
Speaker
That everything exists in a relationship. That actually doesn't exist. So it's still a I-fucked-feel, but it's in a relationship with all existence.
00:16:15
Speaker
And it's where they come in and then they come in and then come in and then they call it the same that we call it. The same thing that we call without a single thing. We say that we have a certain way of finding out. But in the way it's the same thing that it's without a single thing. So it's pretty good thing. And it's a very different way of finding out.
00:16:37
Speaker
so
Practices for Spiritual Growth
00:16:37
Speaker
there pe your panons got all nomi for li you know doel and say de gety It's in the menace's dypia, the syn of existence.
00:16:48
Speaker
We call it a sort of... When the syke has always movement and change, it's in the heart of it a rock. It's a rock and rock. So it's rock and a rock. So it's a different syn of existence, right and so.
00:17:03
Speaker
so so they handle model were underated on scene by existence There is see its physical area and be able to do it in the physical area.
00:17:20
Speaker
ums written and then sell somemau very st Of saydi sp li the for in a completely different way. And a bridge in the same way with the indifortypest.
00:17:33
Speaker
And then maybe third one. The third one is about as a rein rein, or a non-realistic rein. And that's what we say. It's a mystery. And that's what we say.
00:17:45
Speaker
This can happen in life through inner life. miss it so solthough there are some of they kiss theut e e then i meno touch on the up op top ver that the conss share also el leave yeah no in So Døde-booking is also very excited about everything you have practiced in understanding people who have used life on indre fordypning.
00:18:17
Speaker
so then i when click onk and then i would include me also forid women skilled um high leave is it pour in the and which they will find out more than process.
00:18:35
Speaker
feel like I'm going to be very happy when I hear you a and
00:18:56
Speaker
ah dog ah k at lay link that stillness in itself, or be gathered. That's what's the point for many religious and religious practices. I'm curious about how would done
00:19:26
Speaker
and foremost that it must be like an inderetrang. ti or fu contactak me de vota
00:19:34
Speaker
and so thats i ahra oftimmo op or some man the strong
00:19:43
Speaker
So there is desire and a desire to something. And maybe something in us that just wakes up. Maybe it deeper deep feeling.
00:19:55
Speaker
course should there be the man yeahhand and avatta are no deepdiated or a deeper openness that dukker up. But it can also that stills us so much to the way.
00:20:15
Speaker
At we almost almost have a lot of challenges. It or big challenges that make us see in over. For my part, it so kind they call mar and microsoftle for me they also also brand nilockxone course i'm not giving thought moon becauses metta um of play daughterta ahar all allt ta on kapo is on each to theset or is not being op v or also the mare nevau plus all the movie i think well that man onlyque of award and so that a the the the it gives me no longer in the field
00:21:00
Speaker
think things start there. This is not something that can told. It can opened like a strange. There are many different traditions. Different ways, techniques and such.
00:21:15
Speaker
yeah <unk>que montra like some technique error or or something think it's a very nice point you said point for the praxis.
00:21:41
Speaker
And that it's connected to the you describe as the metthety, desillusionen, at man ikke tror at all of the things that the world has to be on, materiel gleder, will give us the end of the gled we seek, and that you start a practice out of it.
Self-Awareness and Personal Growth
00:22:06
Speaker
What is it you do for you to come in contact with your heart when you have this deep and not material? What is it you do?
00:22:19
Speaker
For me, there are definitely things, and I think it will be different things. A little bit of a person you have. We have different needs on this area, so it's not one thing for all of you.
00:22:31
Speaker
but own middle this so that k and thing you follow managerial also that man ahfaangal meittachisto of neu surua there and if think for the then grab the fitness for see i made the made whiic and wake up puka i married lee ah indra your back in And when I'm more like it, I get the stem from the inner place so that it's possible to listen to it.
00:23:08
Speaker
And it's often a still stem, which a feeling of a of a sense of a sense of that we have so good contact with it.
00:23:28
Speaker
But I think we all know what's going on in moment in life. Maybe in the moments where you get a contact.
00:23:39
Speaker
But you need to be careful about what it was for. And I think that you said that the self-sales are also very important. I call it often ærlighet.
00:23:51
Speaker
I need to be able to see and we be letgoia All sides of me. ah polyia liirro e etc So like myself. And I will see the whole.
00:24:03
Speaker
The willingness. I think that life helps us to bring it through. the anamly it's pervely So the of life.
00:24:22
Speaker
And there can find self-insict. So I think it's the main thing we have have an honest with myself. And to see all sides of myself.
00:24:36
Speaker
And I'm just saying that, I don't have any of this, but I just have a trang to see. the him will domp on hot button long to say say a thing may there think we have gone to
00:25:00
Speaker
ah death And the truth is that because it is without a doubt. And it is when we can begin to see and see. yeah And through seeing also have the to begin to change things.
00:25:14
Speaker
um they are calledti bahaly but now there's somema fit year the useful for um but um intend so from maybe interesting now go to put out to some channels on big begin and zero the har me ah um' meet you to soon where get put best something the more hopefully thatly affect bar on their shared it too to build real iosher then google will quite for a
00:25:43
Speaker
yeah I met Vigdis Barbarik at the end of the For me was it very dramatic and I in and a in the indian writing.
00:26:12
Speaker
also ah commer vi obinrona um And about how you are true. What is for you to be true? And for me to find true true true ehain suma samheti he said don meraamiaaha the rat ah extreme optoar or intellectual mevalel opluar is philosophi yeah text now or tongue ah but she just stopped and and to to this authenticity and to lay off all the social skills and all the mask was really radical for I had been able to be
00:26:54
Speaker
a good yogi, to be philosophy clear, that it was so much that had been a sort of of I on the way.
00:27:08
Speaker
yaai And it was a dramatic shift for me to bring from legifra modern then identity for you.
00:27:30
Speaker
I know what you said. and The first year I was very early in my period where I was able to get to other questions. I stuck very fast in it. So I know that I'm fling enough and doing it with practice. So I get to it when I come in a goal.
00:27:44
Speaker
What I should be for My job. it's not thought body yeah frinkno or youre not curiousto proxis so so so so far the detail know i call miol well no and ask a um mere you So, meeting with Vigdis was a bit of a problem.
00:28:03
Speaker
And I felt like I the inner force is a process of being a process. It's not so much of a loss, it's not a loss.
00:28:15
Speaker
and all deck So it's a different principle. And that's also what Buddhism talks about. We have a nature, so we have a lot on top of the
00:28:36
Speaker
So that we can get a lot of time. lot who said it on socrateism the i And the And a in. in me? kind but my eye open but that to tell it in my How can I be fri in it's on the side of the side or not?
00:29:14
Speaker
I think that after I met Vigdis Garbarik, every moment was very interesting.
00:29:22
Speaker
to learn about myself my life through everything that And and experiences.
00:29:43
Speaker
And stillness, we need to seek ourselves In the way we are, not just through meditation or through a kind of practice.
00:29:56
Speaker
Absolutely.
Acupuncture and Holistic Healing
00:29:57
Speaker
We have the understanding your own form.
00:30:09
Speaker
talk melody per ahead le about the which share i number for scroll na in for him your own body and your own body. There are no different things.
00:30:20
Speaker
You took a training in acupuncture and with five elements of acupuncture, which is a own form of acupuncture.
00:30:32
Speaker
Is this a forlengelse of the
00:30:52
Speaker
mostly so ya by women skills scenario the send reflection and rooting your homes ah and also a self-reflection working with a doubt or without a doubt.
00:31:12
Speaker
Also suffer for learning to learn better for them on what you hold on with. So that I have been able to have with me, my role in all the process I work with men.
00:31:27
Speaker
So, what fascinated me with five elements of hmong mutra bri the Of course, in traditional China-fragment, it was not that. It was the body and the soul together.
00:31:49
Speaker
So, one of my inspirations from England was Body, Mind and Spirit. So, that everyone should be with.
00:31:56
Speaker
And then it was interesting for me. So it had a little bit of a dimension with me. But just physical treatment. So what you do when men's comes to you? Do treat them as body, mind and spirit?
00:32:13
Speaker
Yes, I try to meet men's where they are. on the hobofo And they plague or don't know what I should do with my life.
00:32:24
Speaker
and it askular believe it What should we find out of it? Or if they are deprimated. It can very very far from what people come from. But it's often a combination of things.
00:32:42
Speaker
Kropp and syke.
00:32:45
Speaker
Is there the long journey you've been through? Or what you see as behandling?
00:33:05
Speaker
Is there something you could say to us?
00:33:09
Speaker
us
00:33:11
Speaker
I would like to take something that is an aktual topic through the whole book. And it's this with the fact. Because we take the fact that we take all the
Values and Conscious Choices
00:33:28
Speaker
time. And we get to our lives. So to be aware of our own values and why we do the things I do, is incredibly important.
00:33:38
Speaker
vi For to say how it comes to try to get the book, so
00:33:45
Speaker
after the rene consciousness, the the the movement begins again.
00:33:58
Speaker
the The book is a that
00:34:28
Speaker
At the same time with the wisdom, it comes a clear light, and it's our vanity. here comes the wisdom and it's a little bit.
00:34:42
Speaker
And very often it describes, don't try to avoid the wisdom. Don't try to the the
00:34:56
Speaker
um then new movelet So here is the of the that have every moment we live.
Conclusion and Reflections
00:35:24
Speaker
Should I feel it that we are in on? Should I feel it that I feel it that I feel it that feel it that I feel it? law yeah and So in us comes with The to be naked mask. One of the two possibilities.
00:35:44
Speaker
i you megan mosque yeah multi new at Lys, or mørk, or u-klar. but i let me replie So the to also the book so ah some leafs spin it but um in advance for <unk>
00:36:16
Speaker
and society um to si do high vichatan nebu in fra tibatans tioss the yu knowum I that so
00:36:37
Speaker
leva of voumvare lever and that us This is a very relevant text, where you have a Norwegian group people who have both the experience you have as a Buddhist monk, but also people who are deeply interested in life, quality, how we can live with authenticity, and how we have talked about how the book has relevance for us in our everyday and our lives.
00:37:21
Speaker
I'm in there. It was, as I said, under title, a conversation about life. The way we made the book on it was that we had a little chapter.
00:37:35
Speaker
The chapter is not so long, but a little bit. And then we started discussing the contents of the book.
00:37:43
Speaker
and I could go to the code, for there are many cultural elements, so what can these things mean? or o translate reacted all them are again or And the
00:38:05
Speaker
And then we go back to the original text and then we get a new dialogue around this. yeah long that ah So so thevo we
00:38:22
Speaker
it's the inspiration in book. I'm glad to read the book itself. I know that it's also about life.
00:38:36
Speaker
Thank you and it governs my fresh you and