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Remaining True to Your Values When Dating
47 Plays1 year ago
Welcome back to our Podcast Host audition series!
This week, Savannah is joined by Patricia to discuss how Queens remain true to their values whilst dating.
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Transcript
Introduction to FDS and Guest Host Invitation
00:00:00
Speaker
What's up queens?
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:00:06
Speaker
I'm your host Savannah and today we are back with another one of our lovely guest hosts.
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm really enjoying this series by the way, this could just go on forever.
00:00:14
Speaker
Please submit more applications to be a podcast host because I'm really enjoying getting to meet so many awesome
Core Concepts of FDS with Patricia
00:00:20
Speaker
women.
00:00:20
Speaker
But today we have Patricia with us today, who is going to talk to us about what I think is a core concept of FDS, if you're new here.
00:00:31
Speaker
And if you're not, you're really going to enjoy this episode because it's always nice to refresh the FDS fundamentals, as we say.
00:00:39
Speaker
And Patricia has pulled together an awesome episode for us that does exactly that.
00:00:44
Speaker
But before we get into that...
00:00:46
Speaker
Patricia, would you just like to just introduce yourself and tell us a bit more about your FDS origin story and why you decided to apply to become a podcast host?
Personal Experiences and Self-Appreciation
00:00:57
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Savannah.
00:00:58
Speaker
That was such a nice introduction.
00:01:01
Speaker
Hi, everybody.
00:01:02
Speaker
So happy to be here.
00:01:03
Speaker
Super excited.
00:01:05
Speaker
Good to have you.
00:01:06
Speaker
Thank you.
00:01:07
Speaker
Well, like many FDSers, I had a very scurry boyfriend and I always try to stay with him and just talk about it and just communicate.
00:01:16
Speaker
And then eventually I got some brains and I left him.
00:01:23
Speaker
Crucive brains.
00:01:24
Speaker
It was a terrible story.
00:01:27
Speaker
I should have been a rooster's throat at one point, but yeah.
00:01:30
Speaker
Long story short, I found FDS because I was like, how can it be possible that I even got to this point that my boyfriend doesn't want to sleep with me, but he does want to sleep with other women?
00:01:40
Speaker
And I'm like accepting that and trying to, no, no.
00:01:43
Speaker
How can I have...
00:01:47
Speaker
stooped so low in my values to have been like that and so that's when I found FDS and I started leveling up in a very deep way and I put my appreciation for myself and my love for myself as my very very core values nice and this is what we're gonna talk about today yeah thank you
00:02:08
Speaker
Gosh, what a squirty boyfriend.
Identifying and Moving on from 'Scrotes'
00:02:10
Speaker
How can you be like, I don't want to sleep with you, but I want to sleep with other women.
00:02:14
Speaker
Like, why do men think that other women are just queuing up to shag them?
00:02:18
Speaker
I don't get it.
00:02:19
Speaker
Some of them should be lucky that even one woman is willing to do it.
00:02:22
Speaker
Talk less of an imaginary queue.
00:02:24
Speaker
I think it was less about trying to spread a seed and being horny.
00:02:27
Speaker
I think he was actually psychologically destroyed with like, you know, Madonna horror complex and really, really deep fear of intimacy.
00:02:37
Speaker
But that is not my problem, right?
00:02:39
Speaker
That is his problem to go to therapy for.
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:42
Speaker
And I just feel like the whole dynamic of sort of, because if that was his way of thinking, he could have just ended the relationship.
00:02:50
Speaker
I mean, it's not strange to me because I understand why Scroats do it.
00:02:52
Speaker
They need that sort of safety net in a woman.
00:02:55
Speaker
But the idea that you have a woman that you're willing to mistreat, you know, whilst you're looking for other women just makes no sense to me.
00:03:04
Speaker
To be fair, he did tell me a few times, you should break up with me.
00:03:07
Speaker
But I was like, no, but I love you.
00:03:09
Speaker
Pick me.
00:03:10
Speaker
Classic pick me.
00:03:12
Speaker
I guess, yeah, you could have walked away.
00:03:14
Speaker
But that is also such an abdication of his responsibility because he also could have ended it and chose
Empowerment Through Ending Toxic Relationships
00:03:20
Speaker
not to.
00:03:20
Speaker
Yeah, I always felt like he's stringing me along.
00:03:22
Speaker
But then again, I had the choice to break it up, right?
00:03:25
Speaker
And eventually that's what I did.
00:03:27
Speaker
Oh, it was such an amazing moment.
00:03:29
Speaker
I walked around the house with a big black trash bag.
00:03:33
Speaker
emptied all of the shelves with his stuff into the trash bag, put it all in our spare room, in our study.
00:03:40
Speaker
And then I left the house and I told him, like, I don't ever want to talk to you again.
00:03:44
Speaker
Come pick up your shit.
00:03:46
Speaker
I actually did an FDS before I was FDS.
00:03:48
Speaker
I blocked him on WhatsApp and I blocked him on my phone so he couldn't reach me.
00:03:52
Speaker
He just had to come and pick up his stuff.
00:03:54
Speaker
Love it.
00:03:55
Speaker
Block and delete.
00:03:56
Speaker
Thanks.
00:03:58
Speaker
That's it.
00:03:58
Speaker
Absolutely love it.
00:04:00
Speaker
Thanks.
00:04:01
Speaker
It was an amazing moment.
00:04:02
Speaker
It was very empowering.
00:04:04
Speaker
So now you've given us your FDS origin story.
00:04:07
Speaker
What are we discussing today, Patricia?
Balancing Personal Growth and Relationships
00:04:10
Speaker
So basically, this is a story of how I left my country after trying to do that for a long time, even though I probably met the love of my life.
00:04:21
Speaker
And I chose to leave regardless, based on these very, very core FDS and just feminist values of putting myself first, you know, maximum female benefit, appreciating myself enough to know that the opportunities that I created for myself are valuable and I shouldn't throw them aside.
00:04:40
Speaker
for a man, even if he's amazing.
00:04:43
Speaker
And we have, really, it was probably the best relationship I had, like somebody who actually really saw me and respected me.
00:04:50
Speaker
And we had an amazing love, but I, well, I don't want to give the gist away.
00:04:55
Speaker
So let me just take you through the story.
00:04:57
Speaker
I'm not going to touch on politics in a real way, but just to set the stage, I'm from Israel, or at least I was from Israel from a few, up until a few days ago, because I just recently
00:05:09
Speaker
made my dream come true and I left the country and I'm now in Amsterdam starting a PhD.
00:05:13
Speaker
I just started my PhD today.
00:05:15
Speaker
It's super exciting.
00:05:17
Speaker
Queen, queenship.
00:05:19
Speaker
We love that.
00:05:20
Speaker
We love an educated queen.
00:05:24
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:05:26
Speaker
I'm studying solar cells, so that's also intertwined with my core goals as a human being, as an engineer.
00:05:33
Speaker
Super, super, super excited.
00:05:36
Speaker
And yeah, Israel, just like a sentence about that, has been going to shit in a very real way for years.
00:05:42
Speaker
since before the war and I was starting to create some opportunities for myself.
00:05:48
Speaker
I actually sat down and thought like, okay, what can I do?
00:05:52
Speaker
Like I have a master's degree.
00:05:54
Speaker
I work in the industry.
00:05:55
Speaker
I signed up for a conference in Vienna and I started like writing submissions for PhD positions and all kinds of big cities in Europe to Vienna, to Berlin, to Amsterdam.
00:06:06
Speaker
And eventually Amsterdam went through.
00:06:09
Speaker
I got accepted and
00:06:11
Speaker
And basically what happened is I was invited for an interview in mid-December.
00:06:17
Speaker
And in the same days that I was invited to the interview, like pure serendipity, I met the most amazing guy, like really vibrant, really the kind of person that I always was attracted to, but it never worked out.
00:06:30
Speaker
I guess, I don't know, maybe I never had the proper self-esteem or
00:06:35
Speaker
It was just a really amazing love story, really, because we both reinstilled the trust in relationships for each other.
00:06:42
Speaker
Because I was in shitty relationships for a while and he was in shitty relationships for a while.
00:06:47
Speaker
It was really beautiful.
00:06:49
Speaker
And yeah, with this like opportunity that I was, I really, you know, I worked hard to create.
00:06:54
Speaker
And then there are moments where I was thinking like, I can just ignore everything that's happening here in Israel.
00:07:01
Speaker
And like, it was literally becoming very hard for me to spend any other day there.
00:07:06
Speaker
Like each day that I spent there became harder and harder.
00:07:10
Speaker
with the war and like, oh my God, it was just terrible, really terrible.
00:07:15
Speaker
But on the other hand, I told myself, okay, I can just ignore all of it.
00:07:18
Speaker
Like people ignore a lot of things and just be with this guy and I can have babies with them and I can have a home with them and I can just have this.
00:07:28
Speaker
And I think, you know, something that is easy for women to tell ourselves is that
00:07:33
Speaker
Oh, I can go back and get my PhD.
00:07:35
Speaker
It'll be fine, you know.
00:07:37
Speaker
If I set up shop with this guy, if I have a family, I can go and get my PhD and pursue my dreams later, right?
00:07:43
Speaker
I'll tell you honestly, the PhD, I'm telling you for real, the PhD wasn't never a focus of mine.
00:07:49
Speaker
I never planned to do a PhD because I like to work in industry.
00:07:53
Speaker
The PhD is my ticket out of Israel because I had a really, how do you say, cushiony?
00:07:58
Speaker
A cushy.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yeah, I had like a really good job with a high pay, stable, big company.
00:08:06
Speaker
Like I was comfortable.
00:08:07
Speaker
I still have a gazillion friends.
00:08:10
Speaker
My life was perfect, except for everything that was happening around me.
00:08:14
Speaker
And it was really about like adhering to my core values against everything else, like against the life that I created for myself of comfort, of stability.
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah, oh, that's hard.
00:08:28
Speaker
That's really, really hard to, I wouldn't say give it up, because I know you have the ability to go back to that and even ascend to even greater heights.
00:08:37
Speaker
But in that moment, that's a really tough decision to make really tough.
00:08:41
Speaker
And then on top of that, you met a guy who is from the sounds of it, he seemed like your dream, you know, high value man.
00:08:48
Speaker
Yeah, it was a hard decision.
00:08:50
Speaker
There were moments in time where I, when I was like lying in his arms, felt so happy and so loved.
00:08:56
Speaker
Oh, I can feel it.
00:09:01
Speaker
I was just like, ah, fuck Amsterdam.
00:09:03
Speaker
Fuck the PhD.
00:09:04
Speaker
I don't need any of that.
00:09:06
Speaker
But yeah.
Prioritizing Personal Goals Over Relationships
00:09:07
Speaker
I think after I went to the actual interview and I was here and I got a taste of what it actually could be like, I understood that I need to go forward with my dream regardless of what's happening with the man.
00:09:19
Speaker
And this is the theme of the episode as I see it, is about how our personal goals as women, as individuals who happen to be women, are more important than the men, even if the man is high value.
00:09:34
Speaker
Hmm.
00:09:36
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that is such a powerful thing because even when I first got into FDS, I feel like FDS is easy to stick to, right?
00:09:46
Speaker
When you're meeting scrotes because you can block and delete.
00:09:49
Speaker
You can be like, I'm not putting up with this.
00:09:51
Speaker
I'm not doing that because, you know, he's a scrote, right?
00:09:55
Speaker
It's easy to just be FDS.
00:09:57
Speaker
It's so obvious to recognize what is subpar.
00:10:00
Speaker
Yes, yeah, yeah.
00:10:02
Speaker
And I've always said to women, the true test of your, I don't want to say commitment to FDS, it sounds like a religion, but the true test of your values is when you meet a guy that you really like, and a guy that isn't a scrote, and a guy who treats you well.
00:10:15
Speaker
That is when your FDS values are going to be tested.
00:10:20
Speaker
Because when you're in that situation, like, you know, you were talking about Patricia, you're
00:10:24
Speaker
it's so easy to then start compromising on your principles and values because you really like the guy and the guy is really nice and he seems high value.
Navigating Relationship Goals and Personal Desires
00:10:33
Speaker
But that's really when you sort of have to double down on your integrity.
00:10:38
Speaker
You have to really know who you are, what your values are.
00:10:41
Speaker
And that will also make you stronger as a person, even...
00:10:44
Speaker
If it feels really, really difficult to tell a guy that you like no or tell him that, you know, this isn't going to work out for me because it's not the right time or we want different things.
00:10:55
Speaker
Preach.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:56
Speaker
So that is, and I've experienced that myself, you know, since I've been into FDS.
00:11:02
Speaker
It was just, it's always really hard when you meet a guy that is actually decent.
00:11:06
Speaker
That's when FDS becomes very challenging.
00:11:11
Speaker
Do you want to share?
00:11:11
Speaker
You don't have to give like all the details, but if you... Oh, I feel so vulnerable.
00:11:16
Speaker
Oh, you don't have to.
00:11:19
Speaker
How do you see your personal goals more important than men, especially if they're decent?
00:11:25
Speaker
That's a good question.
00:11:26
Speaker
Okay, so I'll give an example, right?
00:11:29
Speaker
I've often said I don't want to have kids because I think I'm child free.
00:11:34
Speaker
that's exactly what my guess was yeah yeah but then when I see a guy or like when I saw a guy that I liked and he was you know into having children and I saw that he was good with kids like he was good with his like nieces and nephews I was like oh am I really child free like would having a kid be that bad I said
00:11:57
Speaker
And it was like around that time where I swear like my body was just like playing tricks on me.
00:12:02
Speaker
So I noticed that my hips just got wider, like randomly.
00:12:05
Speaker
What?
00:12:08
Speaker
Apparently that's the thing.
00:12:09
Speaker
Like, I mean, women's bodies can change throughout their 20s.
00:12:11
Speaker
So my hips are getting wider.
00:12:13
Speaker
And I thought it feels like.
00:12:18
Speaker
Your body is like telling you, let's have a baby now.
00:12:22
Speaker
But the thing is, I still didn't have that maternal instinct for a kid, but I was like, am I really child-free?
00:12:28
Speaker
Like, could I possibly maybe squeeze out one?
00:12:31
Speaker
Because I wouldn't just stop at one.
00:12:32
Speaker
I always said if I had kids, because I've got like three siblings and I've loved having siblings, so I would never just have one kid.
00:12:39
Speaker
I'd want at least two.
00:12:41
Speaker
So I was like, is it child-free?
00:12:42
Speaker
Like, is it like, I could maybe deal with it, get up.
00:12:46
Speaker
But then, do you know what I mean?
00:12:47
Speaker
Like, your mind just goes to all these places.
00:12:50
Speaker
And yeah, I did find myself thinking we could just be like a pet.
00:12:54
Speaker
But then I was like, I don't want kids.
00:12:57
Speaker
It's not part of my life plan.
00:12:58
Speaker
And if it's part of his, then it doesn't mean that he's a scrot or that it's bad.
00:13:02
Speaker
It just means that we're just not compatible.
00:13:04
Speaker
That's very tough to realize that.
00:13:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:09
Speaker
I know that story from different versions, like my best friend is child free.
00:13:14
Speaker
I am wanting children.
00:13:16
Speaker
I don't know if there's a word for that, but yeah.
00:13:19
Speaker
And I also feel like, because I was saying to Patricia before we started recording this episode, I've been thinking a lot recently about the way in which women were sort of groomed from very, very young to have a man at the centre of our plants.
Shifting Mindsets: Personal Ambitions vs. Relationships
00:13:33
Speaker
So we almost, for example, we might,
00:13:36
Speaker
you know, choose which universities to go to based on how many men there are.
00:13:41
Speaker
I know that was a thing for decades at the university I went to in the UK, where it was like a running open joke, not joke, that women chose that particular university because of the male to female ratio.
00:13:53
Speaker
I think it was about 70% male, 30% female.
00:13:56
Speaker
Is it a technical university?
00:13:58
Speaker
Just out of curiosity.
00:14:00
Speaker
No, it was a... Just not to... It was just a thought for myself...
00:14:04
Speaker
technical but no it was a very like masculine environment so engineering and like stem were its main thing so it attracted a lot of men to that institution and then we almost sort of you know we start planning our careers so we start talking about you know like when I take time out to have children we sort of anticipate there'll be a gap in our careers you know we move around the country to
00:14:28
Speaker
you know, to move in with a boyfriend, we very quickly, or it's quite easy for women to almost play the role of a wife when they're a girlfriend, et cetera, et cetera.
00:14:37
Speaker
So we've sort of been groomed to sort of... Yeah, fuck that.
00:14:40
Speaker
Exactly, fuck that.
00:14:41
Speaker
But we've sort of been groomed to sort of, you know, see a man as a plant,
00:14:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's exactly it.
00:14:46
Speaker
And even plan around it.
00:14:48
Speaker
And thank you for setting the stage.
00:14:49
Speaker
It's something that I also wanted to say about the whole notion of how I set out for this journey, because I'm actually 34 and I was really keen on finding a relationship and on finding a partner.
00:15:01
Speaker
I feel like I'm really ready for that.
00:15:03
Speaker
And also I wanted to move abroad.
00:15:05
Speaker
And it's like, it doesn't really compile.
00:15:07
Speaker
And at some point I decided that I'm going to think like a man in the sense that I'm putting myself in the center of
00:15:17
Speaker
If I were a guy, I wouldn't be saying, oh, but first I need to get a wife and then I will move and fulfill my dream of a career abroad.
00:15:27
Speaker
I wouldn't be thinking that.
00:15:28
Speaker
I would be putting myself in the center with my goals, with my expertise, with my privilege that I was able to get an education and all the things.
00:15:38
Speaker
Like the relationship thing is something that is, you know, it comes in and out of your life.
00:15:43
Speaker
And I think that enabled me so much freedom, like escaping this pressure from my family, especially my mom.
00:15:51
Speaker
Like, oh, you should get a partner before you move.
00:15:54
Speaker
It's like, mom, I tried to get a partner.
00:15:56
Speaker
I don't have a partner right now.
00:15:58
Speaker
So I'm going to do what I need to do for myself.
00:16:00
Speaker
And if a partner comes along, he comes along.
00:16:02
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:16:03
Speaker
Great, yeah.
00:16:04
Speaker
Because I do want to have kids, this kind of like ovaries pressure.
00:16:08
Speaker
I don't know.
00:16:09
Speaker
How do you say that?
00:16:09
Speaker
Like eggs pressure?
00:16:11
Speaker
We say in Hebrew, but you can say ovaries pressure.
00:16:14
Speaker
Eggs pressure.
00:16:16
Speaker
Of like, oh my God, I have to get a baby because my eggs are going to die soon.
00:16:19
Speaker
It's like, that's not doing me any good.
00:16:21
Speaker
Like I came to a point that...
00:16:24
Speaker
I know that I want to have a family.
00:16:26
Speaker
And this is the gist of it, that I believe in myself enough and I appreciate myself enough for everything that I am, that I know that this amazing man who saw me and respected me and was my...
00:16:39
Speaker
beautiful lover and helped me a lot.
00:16:41
Speaker
Like he wasn't just my lover.
00:16:44
Speaker
He didn't just get along with my friends.
00:16:47
Speaker
He also came to my house the night before I left and helped me pack up my electric piano because I was just, I couldn't do anything anymore.
00:16:54
Speaker
And he washed the dishes and he took out the trash and he put all my luggage in my car.
00:16:58
Speaker
For me leaving, like that's how supportive he is.
00:17:01
Speaker
And the important thing is not to see that as kind of like a once a lifetime, like fateful event that somebody saw me.
Learning from Love Experiences for Self-Growth
00:17:10
Speaker
No, I'm amazing.
00:17:12
Speaker
He saw me and other people will also be lucky to see me.
00:17:15
Speaker
And I don't need to give up on my dreams to hold on to him.
00:17:20
Speaker
hold on to a guy absolutely and you know something that has always stayed with me especially when it comes to men is that if you've had it once you can have it again there's been guys where I've really thought like damn it that was such a missed opportunity like I'm never you know I'm never going to experience that again or like that's my last chance and then another one comes that is even better than the last one then another one comes and blows your mind right
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:17:50
Speaker
Like if you've experienced it once, you can and will experience it again.
00:17:54
Speaker
And if not, it will be better because the later experiences will meet you at the right time as well.
00:18:00
Speaker
And you can enjoy it a lot more.
00:18:02
Speaker
Like if I look back at my dating history and the sorts of men that I settled for, I would have never imagined that
00:18:09
Speaker
it would get better.
00:18:10
Speaker
I thought that that was it.
00:18:12
Speaker
But it's really not.
00:18:13
Speaker
Like, you will feel again and it will be with a different, you know, it may not be with the exact same guy in the exact same way and that's fine, but you will feel it again.
00:18:21
Speaker
That is really inspiring.
00:18:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:24
Speaker
In a way, it's exciting that when I see a good guy and even if it doesn't work out, it's like, well, I know that, you know, that feeling will come around again.
00:18:32
Speaker
It's, you know, I don't know when, but, you know, you'll feel it again.
00:18:35
Speaker
And then when you do feel it again, you're like, yeah, I'm feeling it again, which is nice.
00:18:39
Speaker
Yes.
00:18:40
Speaker
And you know what?
00:18:41
Speaker
On a spiritual level, you could say that actually the being that's experiencing these beautiful emotions and connections are you.
00:18:51
Speaker
So when you open yourself up to feel this, you know, if we would look at it as each love is greater than the former one, then it's actually that we that are growing in our capacity to love, in our capacity to communicate better.
00:19:07
Speaker
Like even during this time,
00:19:10
Speaker
Yes, so true.
00:19:11
Speaker
I talked to you about this with Savannah about this also in our pre-conversation that Savannah was always saying on the podcast while I was listening to them that what makes a relationship good is not how long it lasts.
00:19:24
Speaker
A relationship can be good as long as it lasts, even if it's short.
00:19:28
Speaker
And that is something that is really important.
00:19:30
Speaker
And I think that if we can enjoy a good relationship, we're also learning how to set our boundaries in a way that is elegant, in a way that is friction-free, but also very respectful for ourselves and the person in front of us, recognizing our boundaries, knowing what's important to us.
00:19:49
Speaker
That is so valuable.
00:19:51
Speaker
That is so valuable.
00:19:53
Speaker
And that you take with you to the next relationship.
00:19:56
Speaker
Exactly.
00:19:56
Speaker
And I feel like people tend to judge a relationship success based on how long it lasts.
00:20:02
Speaker
And whilst that can be an indicator, possibly, like there are couples who are happily married for 50, 60, 70, 80 years or whatever.
00:20:09
Speaker
But that's the thing, they're happily married.
00:20:12
Speaker
They're happily married.
00:20:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's the caveat.
00:20:14
Speaker
Because if we look at it, you know, logically, every relationship is either going to end through death or separation.
00:20:20
Speaker
There's really no way out of a relationship.
00:20:23
Speaker
Hate to be morbid, right?
00:20:24
Speaker
And statistically speaking, it will end in some form of separation, like most of our adult relationships.
00:20:30
Speaker
So even though I think it's important to date with intention, so if you are looking to get married or to have a family, that's important too.
00:20:38
Speaker
But it's also, I think, equally as important to just be in the moment.
00:20:42
Speaker
So when you're in the moment, you can actually assess the relationship and think about, you know, like, how is it making me feel on a day-to-day basis?
00:20:50
Speaker
Do I feel safe?
00:20:51
Speaker
Do I feel loved?
00:20:52
Speaker
Do I feel protected, number one.
00:20:54
Speaker
And two, like Patricia said, is that you can then
00:20:57
Speaker
begin to develop, you know, yourself in that relationship, you will also grow in that relationship.
00:21:02
Speaker
And even if it doesn't last forever, you will still take a lot, you know, from that relationship.
00:21:09
Speaker
And that's also a success.
00:21:11
Speaker
I think so.
00:21:12
Speaker
I definitely think so.
00:21:13
Speaker
And each time that I was able to see, I don't know, communication pattern that I wasn't totally satisfied with, or I was able to see my own patterns, like I learned that I'm anxious.
00:21:25
Speaker
But it's not just anxiously attached.
00:21:26
Speaker
Apparently, it's anxiously ambivalent.
00:21:30
Speaker
Okay, stop the bus.
00:21:31
Speaker
Okay, stop the bus.
00:21:32
Speaker
Put in Turt Park.
00:21:33
Speaker
So...
00:21:35
Speaker
You will know about our episode on attachment theory.
00:21:38
Speaker
I feel like attachment theory is a useful starting point.
00:21:41
Speaker
Oh, I heard the podcast.
00:21:43
Speaker
It was great.
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:47
Speaker
Yeah, but first of all, my biggest takeaway from that, and I also talk about it with my other friends when we talk about it,
00:21:54
Speaker
When we talk about the theory, even if they don't know about it, or even if I'm introducing it to them, exactly what you said, that understanding if somebody is avoidantly attached, for instance, but it's usually the case with men, is interesting on a self-development path, whatever.
00:22:11
Speaker
It makes no difference to understand that if the person is not fulfilling your needs.
00:22:16
Speaker
That is the important part.
00:22:17
Speaker
For sure.
00:22:18
Speaker
I wonder with women as well.
00:22:19
Speaker
Like, I think the jury's out for me on attachment style because
Understanding Attachment Styles in Relationships
00:22:25
Speaker
as somebody who, I mean, I thought that I was an anxiously attached person, but then I realized that when I'm in relationships where I feel safe and secure, I actually have a very secure attachment style.
00:22:38
Speaker
Oh yeah, of course.
00:22:39
Speaker
I totally agree with you also that I actually re-listened to that episode not long ago, like maybe last week or something.
00:22:46
Speaker
So I also agree with your point about, you know, an attachment style is not set for one person throughout all of that person's relationships.
00:22:55
Speaker
And also it can change with time.
00:22:57
Speaker
Totally agree with that.
00:22:59
Speaker
So I would say that I have anxiously ambivalent tendencies.
00:23:03
Speaker
And that makes perfect sense.
00:23:04
Speaker
Like I talked about it with my therapist because my dad was like some of the time he had rage issues and some of the time he was the sweetest man.
00:23:13
Speaker
So then I developed this mechanism where I, you know, you gauge the relationship to see like, oh, are we cool or are we not cool?
00:23:21
Speaker
And then you look for proof.
00:23:23
Speaker
that you're still good.
00:23:24
Speaker
So basically, this could be a story of its own.
00:23:29
Speaker
But also what I'm trying to say is that because this relationship was secure, I could also learn about myself.
00:23:37
Speaker
Because my partner is secure, I saw my
00:23:40
Speaker
anxiously ambivalent tendencies in play.
00:23:43
Speaker
And I could see that like in such a clear way.
00:23:46
Speaker
What happened is I was expecting him to call one day and he didn't call that evening.
00:23:51
Speaker
He texted me the next day, but I had already put myself in some kind of like, you know, I was playing a movie in my head.
00:23:57
Speaker
And by the evening when we met and he asked me if I want to meet and he told me, oh, you can always call me.
00:24:04
Speaker
But I had already set myself in motion and I was feeling anxious, like for real.
00:24:09
Speaker
And by the time he got to my house, I had convinced myself and had told two of my friends that he's going to break up with me.
00:24:16
Speaker
which he didn't plan to do at all.
00:24:18
Speaker
It was just a regular day for him.
00:24:21
Speaker
And he was like, what is going on?
00:24:23
Speaker
What's up?
00:24:24
Speaker
And never mind, long story short, I understood that instead of trying to gauge the situation and creating some kind of tests for the person to complete, to prove his love to me, I could just say, hey, is everything okay?
00:24:42
Speaker
You know, like, how are you feeling?
00:24:44
Speaker
That is like mind blowing.
00:24:45
Speaker
And those are things that I'm taking with me.
00:24:48
Speaker
Definitely.
00:24:49
Speaker
That is, yeah, I can completely relate to that story, Patricia, because it's
00:24:54
Speaker
almost like because like my sister who's been on the podcast before she's often said that when you're in a healthy year relationship or a marriage it can sometimes be challenging because it's almost like a mirror is also being you know flashed in your face about a really clean mirror yeah things about yourself that actually
00:25:18
Speaker
you know you need to work on or things that you know you need to perhaps you know develop so I completely relate to your story about completely like freaking out when he didn't contact you when he said he would because I've been there before and that was when I sort of realized I've got like the crazy girlfriend tendencies
00:25:34
Speaker
because my partner's really calm like he's so calm and he once said like you know he said to me one time you've got a work ethic that I don't have and I have a calmness that seems to evade you and that just basically sums us up oh the wording the wording of that sentence oh that's literally what he said on point it's so lovely
00:25:57
Speaker
And it's actually true.
00:25:58
Speaker
Like I always thought I was quite a calm person, but compared to him, it's just like, I'm literally like, I don't know, the Atlantic Ocean in like hurricane season sometimes.
00:26:07
Speaker
And it took quite in this relationship for me to actually realise actually that, hang on.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah, this is something that,
00:26:14
Speaker
I recognise, and it's not something that everyone has their flaws, I guess, but it's something that I'm aware of and something that I'm actively seeking to address when it comes out, because sometimes my anxiety isn't founded in anything that he's doing, you know?
00:26:32
Speaker
Can I ask you a question?
00:26:33
Speaker
As an individual, of course, how do you differentiate?
00:26:35
Speaker
There's a fine line maybe between moments where your anxiousness is founded and when it's not founded.
00:26:43
Speaker
And also what I started theorizing about this like anxiously ambivalent avoided thing or whatever is that sometimes the reason to be upset is valid, but the proportion is overblown.
00:26:58
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:26:59
Speaker
Yes, yeah, yeah.
00:27:00
Speaker
That's a really good question.
00:27:02
Speaker
If you're talking about the context of relationships, I feel like there ultimately has to be some baseline level of justified trust in a relationship.
00:27:11
Speaker
And I feel like where it can perhaps become disproportionate is when they have given a track record of being reliable and safe and, you know, generally safe.
Trust, Communication, and Growth in Relationships
00:27:25
Speaker
you know, their words being congruent with their actions, you know, versus if they've never demonstrated any of that integrity, then I would say the anger is somewhat justified.
00:27:35
Speaker
But if they have, that's when I would say it's not justified, if that makes sense.
00:27:39
Speaker
So I almost feel like it's like...
00:27:42
Speaker
you do an ongoing risk assessment when you're in a relationship of the guy with or you should be doing it.
00:27:47
Speaker
And this is where self-awareness, I think, comes in as well.
00:27:50
Speaker
Because I like to, you know, when I get annoyed or annoyed at a situation in general, I like to sometimes step back and think, okay, is this person annoying me?
00:28:01
Speaker
Or are they triggering something within me that I've been through before?
00:28:05
Speaker
Sometimes it's
00:28:06
Speaker
both so it can be you know two truths can exist at the same time but also checking in you know with yourself to see okay you know what past experiences have I had that have been similar to this am I potentially bringing in those past experiences into this new situation as well
00:28:24
Speaker
But yeah, and again, I think a healthy man as well, because, you know, there's been times when I have absolutely lost my shit, but he recognized that I was justified in losing my shit because he did something that was very hurtful as well.
00:28:38
Speaker
But, you know, these things are a lot easier to navigate when you're with somebody who's also quite emotionally mature.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yeah, of course.
00:28:44
Speaker
It's a prerequisite, I'd say.
00:28:47
Speaker
And is aware of their own, because my partner's got avoidant tendencies and he'll even admit that, like he struggles to ask for help when he needs it.
00:28:55
Speaker
And he's openly admitted that as well.
00:28:57
Speaker
So yeah, I think it's just about being self-aware, but that's also a lot easier to do if you're not with a stroke.
00:29:05
Speaker
I think like when you're with a stroke, you're constantly in survival mode.
00:29:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think like maybe we haven't established that, but like the baseline, like the prerequisite need to be, you know, sensitivity, maturity, really good communication, goodwill, like tons of goodwill.
00:29:26
Speaker
And then growth can happen, you know.
00:29:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, but like when men talk about growth in relationships, they expect like, oh, yeah, a woman would be with me if I was broke, so I can hopefully grow into Elon Musk one day.
00:29:38
Speaker
And that's not really what it's, you know, like that delusional sort of, yeah, I'm gonna be like, you know, she has to struggle with me and then maybe one day I'll be somewhat decent.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't have to be even Scrody.
00:29:52
Speaker
I have this very beautiful, amazing friend who's a musician and an artist, and he's broke as fuck.
00:29:59
Speaker
He never got his shit together.
00:30:01
Speaker
And a lot of his friends, including me, they seem... He's so talented, and he's handsome.
00:30:07
Speaker
He could easily be a rock star.
00:30:09
Speaker
But he's kind of lost, you know?
00:30:11
Speaker
And when I try to talk to him, I'm like, oh, do you have a plan to do something with yourself?
00:30:16
Speaker
It's like...
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know.
00:30:18
Speaker
Maybe I'll fall in love with a girl.
00:30:20
Speaker
And I'm like, and then what?
00:30:21
Speaker
And he's like, yeah, and she'll help me.
00:30:25
Speaker
And I'm like, what?
00:30:26
Speaker
What?
00:30:27
Speaker
You'll be her project?
00:30:29
Speaker
Like, how do you see that coming?
00:30:30
Speaker
Like, what?
00:30:32
Speaker
It's a bit sad.
00:30:33
Speaker
I mean, he just said the quiet part out loud, yeah.
00:30:36
Speaker
But that's what a lot of these guys bet on.
00:30:38
Speaker
And it's like... In a way, because I know him, he doesn't mean it in a way of using the person.
00:30:44
Speaker
He means it in a way of like, I need saving.
00:30:47
Speaker
And it like in a romantic kind of way.
00:30:50
Speaker
But still, yeah, of course.
00:30:51
Speaker
From an FDS perspective.
00:30:55
Speaker
I would obviously never date him in a million years.
00:30:57
Speaker
But yeah, it's a bit sad.
00:31:01
Speaker
Why?
00:31:01
Speaker
You don't find a struggling musician who's hoping a wife can do like captain, you know, savor.
00:31:06
Speaker
My panties just got so wet.
00:31:11
Speaker
captain saver broke like i would say yeah you know back to the i guess the origin of the episode i do think like it's just so important as a woman to be independent minded and to recognize that it is possible to meet a high value guy that you're just not compatible with and i think that's one of the most painful things that is so true yeah
00:31:35
Speaker
It's exactly when you meet a guy that is decent, that you like, that you have a good connection with, that's when your FDS values come to the test.
00:31:42
Speaker
And that's exactly what happened with me and this love that I had because I was like, when we started dating, I'm like, am I still FDS?
00:31:50
Speaker
What's going on?
00:31:51
Speaker
But when I chose myself over him, like there are also other moments, but yeah, I think that's super important
FDS Values: Personal Empowerment Beyond Romance
00:31:58
Speaker
to understand.
00:31:58
Speaker
And it's very easy to like just be a big, giant, mushy ball of emotion because FDS values are not only about relationships.
00:32:09
Speaker
They're first and foremost, individual values that pertain to us as individuals that happen to be women, powerful women.
00:32:17
Speaker
And it's so true about being individual values.
00:32:20
Speaker
And it's always why I say, like, obviously, I think FDS has several non-negotiable principles.
00:32:27
Speaker
But, you know, some of FDS is also very, ultimately, to some degree, what makes a man high value is highly subjective.
00:32:35
Speaker
For some women, it would be a guy who likes to go hiking seven days a week.
00:32:41
Speaker
that wouldn't be a high value man for me per se, or it wouldn't add to his high value-ness because I don't hike.
00:32:47
Speaker
For example, a common one on the subreddit was that a guy has to be earning six figures.
00:32:52
Speaker
Now, I'm from the UK, very few people, six figures ever, or, you know, even in London, like very few people get anything close to six figures.
00:33:02
Speaker
And
00:33:03
Speaker
you don't need a six-figure salary to be doing quite well for yourself in the UK.
00:33:08
Speaker
I understand that's different in other countries, you know, like New York, Los Angeles, you know, whatever.
00:33:13
Speaker
So it's also, I think, important to truly think about what high value means to you as well, because when you're dating and when you're trying to set, you know, values in a life for yourself, it is important that that is authentic to who you are and not just because FDS said so per se.
00:33:32
Speaker
For sure.
00:33:34
Speaker
For sure.
00:33:34
Speaker
I mean, when I just met this guy, I was meeting guys, I was dating guys, but everything was just very like, no, I didn't take anybody seriously.
00:33:44
Speaker
Also because I knew that I was leaving and I was hungry for inspiration.
00:33:49
Speaker
Personally, I felt like uninspired and I got so much inspiration from this guy.
00:33:54
Speaker
And like, he really just like so much emotions and so much love.
00:33:58
Speaker
And that to me was of high value.
00:34:01
Speaker
Like he...
00:34:02
Speaker
poured a lot of value into my life just by being there.
00:34:06
Speaker
How long were you together?
00:34:10
Speaker
A very short time, less than two months.
00:34:12
Speaker
But we met almost every day, which was not FDS of me at all.
00:34:16
Speaker
Just like with gaps in between for me to catch up on my sleep.
00:34:19
Speaker
But I found it very romantic.
00:34:22
Speaker
It was a really nice love story.
00:34:26
Speaker
And the old me would have just stayed in Israel for him.
00:34:30
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if it's like, I'm kind of doubting myself.
00:34:34
Speaker
Like, I don't know if it's such a huge feat to say like, oh, I did this anyway, regardless of him being in my life.
00:34:41
Speaker
But in my perspective, I could have thrown this opportunity out the window to stay with him.
00:34:46
Speaker
It was an option that I was considering for like a couple of days.
00:34:49
Speaker
And how did he react when you told him that you'd have to end it because you're pursuing?
00:34:55
Speaker
Oh, he knew from the get-go.
00:34:56
Speaker
Oh.
00:34:57
Speaker
Like, on our first date, I said, I just ordered a plane ticket to go to an interview in Amsterdam.
00:35:03
Speaker
I'm going to do a PhD.
00:35:04
Speaker
He's super supportive.
00:35:05
Speaker
He's still supportive.
00:35:07
Speaker
Like he told me, like when I was sad that we were going to break up when I was leaving, like, you know, before he held me and he said that he's really proud of me for pursuing my dreams and that he's 100% behind me.
00:35:26
Speaker
And that as long as I'm doing what I need to do, he's happy and he's proud of me.
00:35:30
Speaker
He's super, super, super supportive.
00:35:34
Speaker
Aww.
00:35:35
Speaker
Aww.
00:35:36
Speaker
Star-crossed lovers, eh?
00:35:38
Speaker
Pardon?
00:35:39
Speaker
Star-crossed?
00:35:39
Speaker
Is that like an impossible love?
00:35:41
Speaker
Kind of like Romeo and Juliet or something else?
00:35:43
Speaker
It's like Shakespearean, like star-crossed lovers, I think.
00:35:46
Speaker
It's like, yeah.
00:35:48
Speaker
Aww.
00:35:48
Speaker
Yeah, something like that.
00:35:49
Speaker
I'll just leave you with a little image that I think was like a little moment that kind of was encapsulating this whole dilemma for me, that there was a point in time.
00:36:00
Speaker
I broke up with him for a week when I realized it was an option that we were talking about that he might come with me to Amsterdam.
00:36:06
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:08
Speaker
no, don't get excited.
00:36:09
Speaker
Because at some point I realized I need to give an answer back to my research institute.
00:36:14
Speaker
Anyways, we had a conversation.
00:36:16
Speaker
I realized he's not going to come with me.
00:36:18
Speaker
And I broke up with him because I didn't see any point in continuing.
00:36:22
Speaker
That lasted for a week.
00:36:24
Speaker
But in this breakup, which felt very real and very sad, I hugged him.
00:36:29
Speaker
And while I was hugging him, I tried my best not to cry.
00:36:33
Speaker
And I was thinking,
00:36:35
Speaker
Do I really need to leave him?
00:36:36
Speaker
Like, maybe I can stay.
00:36:37
Speaker
And at that exact moment that I'm thinking that and trying my best not to cry, like the bomber planes, the fighter planes were going above my house like they always do.
00:36:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:51
Speaker
And I was like, you know, they're not bombing my house.
00:36:54
Speaker
Thank God.
00:36:54
Speaker
Like, of course, they're bombing the Palestinians.
00:36:57
Speaker
But just the sound that is reminding of the war that's going on above your head while I was holding it.
00:37:05
Speaker
I was like, it felt like a moment out of a movie.
00:37:09
Speaker
And it was so hard not to cry in that moment.
00:37:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's such a powerful imagery as well.
00:37:14
Speaker
And I think that you've basically exemplified the complexities of sometimes a high value relationship with a guy as well, because it can, you know, lead to these sorts of dilemmas and issues.
00:37:31
Speaker
It can also potentially derail a woman from what she is supposed to be doing if she's not aware of what her actual goals and aspirations are.
00:37:39
Speaker
And I'm not saying that, you know, this guy was going to deliberately, you know, take you off track and off what you wanted to do from the sounds of it.
00:37:46
Speaker
He seems very supportive of whatever, but I can imagine that could have easily gone a different way.
00:37:52
Speaker
And a woman might think, oh, wow, I met the love of my life.
00:37:55
Speaker
I got a PhD, but I turned it down just so I could be with this guy, you know?
00:37:59
Speaker
And you know what?
00:38:00
Speaker
I'm also going to leave like a little room for skepticism because I think that's important.
Respecting Diverse Feminist Goals
00:38:05
Speaker
If a woman decides to do that and she chooses the guy over the professional opportunity, I support that.
00:38:13
Speaker
If somebody else wants to do that, I think that's fair enough.
00:38:17
Speaker
I think part of feminism is accepting that every woman has her own goals.
00:38:21
Speaker
And if a woman's goal is to have a big family and be a stay-at-home mom, that's totally fair.
00:38:29
Speaker
It's not my goal.
00:38:31
Speaker
But yeah, thank you so much for saying that.
00:38:33
Speaker
Yeah, and it's also, you know, recognising as well that, you know, like you said, that, you know, women, we have different goals, but it's also important that those goals are also authentic.
00:38:45
Speaker
And I think that's the real challenge as well.
00:38:46
Speaker
So if you want to be a stay-at-home mum, that's fine, but make sure that it's
00:38:50
Speaker
truly truly truly what you want and just to have a lot more male audacity and go after what you want unapologetically because yeah these men I mean there is a fine line between having hope for the future and just being absolutely delusional and a lot of these scrubs definitely jump that line with hoping that yeah I can fuck around in my 20s 30s and 40s because men get you know better looking over time and you know I'll still have 20 year olds wanting me when I'm in my 50s sort of thing and it's like
00:39:22
Speaker
no scope yeah finding a good one is not trivial finding a good one is not trivial yeah but at the same time like i've also said before is like you know if you've had it once you can and will have it again it's just a matter of time definitely it's like uh yeah it's something that's living inside of us and then it just i don't want to sound too hippie but it manifests in reality through our belief in ourselves
00:39:50
Speaker
100% and you know your output into the world as well so and I guess sometimes I'm a bit of a doom prophet and I think like all men are waste men and just bottom tier trash but then there is a huge number of them that are not like that as well if finding one of them is your goal then I guess it is you know part of that is being open and being willing to be vulnerable to some degree and
00:40:14
Speaker
Absolutely.
Listener Call to Action: Share Personal Experiences
00:40:15
Speaker
But thank you for sharing, Patricia.
00:40:16
Speaker
And yeah, let us know if you've had any similar stories.
00:40:20
Speaker
It'll be interesting to hear from women who have gone through something similar or have dated a high value man and ended it for whatever reason to pursue their higher aspirations.
00:40:30
Speaker
Let us know how that went and how that felt for you in the comments.
00:40:34
Speaker
Thank you so much, Savannah, for listening to my story and developing all these interesting ideas.
00:40:40
Speaker
I feel inspired.
00:40:41
Speaker
Thank you.
00:40:43
Speaker
Thank you for sharing.
00:40:43
Speaker
No, that was a really, really cool episode.
00:40:45
Speaker
And it felt like going back to FDS fundamentals as well.
00:40:49
Speaker
Back to the basics.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah, and it should be simple dating a high-value man because they don't come with all the bullshit baggage of scrotes.
00:40:58
Speaker
But at the same time, it's like sometimes these sorts of situations is good to talk about because it highlights sometimes the complexities of finding a guy that you really like.
00:41:10
Speaker
Yeah, the edges of the theory kind of.
00:41:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:41:16
Speaker
And, you know, seeing a guy you like and, you know, wondering how, if or when it's going to work out.
00:41:21
Speaker
So, yes.
00:41:24
Speaker
Nice.
00:41:25
Speaker
Okay, that's our show.
00:41:29
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens, and for all you scrotes out there.
00:41:33
Speaker
Solve your own problems.
00:41:34
Speaker
You're not our project.
00:41:35
Speaker
And die mad whilst you're at it.
00:41:37
Speaker
See you next week!