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Reaux Vs. Roe Vs. Wade
25 Plays3 years ago
Less than 24 hours after the SCOTUS overturned Roe V. Wade, the queens assess the damage and strategize on what's the next best move for women in the post-Roe era. Will anti-abortion conservative women have to learn the hard way or is it worth reaching across the aisle? Featuring a Reaux-led rant about all the damage abortion restrictions will cause.
Evie magazine abortion posts - https://twitter.com/Reaux_FDS/status/1540795504463708160?s=20&t=dul78EGNe-XPA0DPqSMf9w
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Transcript
Introduction & Patreon Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
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00:00:01
Speaker
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00:00:02
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:00:28
Speaker
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00:00:39
Speaker
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Roe v. Wade Overturn Reaction
00:00:52
Speaker
queens welcome to the female dating strategy podcast the meanest female only podcast on the internet i'm rote i'm savannah and i'm willa and ladies and the gentlemen you hate listen to us on youtube we had another show scheduled for today
00:01:07
Speaker
But yesterday we received devastating news that Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court case that was the deciding factor in legalizing and protecting abortion rights in all 50 United States was overturned less than 24 hours ago.
00:01:23
Speaker
as of when we're recording this episode.
00:01:25
Speaker
So we're shocked, we're devastated, we're angry, and there's just nothing more important to talk about right now.
00:01:32
Speaker
So we thought we'd dedicate this entire episode to talking about Roe v. Wade and what we think the fallout will be, as well as strategizing a vision for our future where abortion rights are not guaranteed in the United States.
00:01:44
Speaker
It's wild.
00:01:45
Speaker
It's not unexpected that it's come to this because I think from my understanding, the ruling like Roe versus Wade was always on shaky ground anyway.
Supreme Court & Congressional Inaction
00:01:54
Speaker
And several Supreme, I think it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg even said that it's likely going to be overturned.
00:02:00
Speaker
So even though it's incredibly disappointing, unfortunately, it's not surprising.
00:02:05
Speaker
And this comes down to, once again, people over-relying on the Supreme Court to make determinations for legislation that should also be done at the federal level by Congress.
00:02:17
Speaker
What has been frustrating, I think, is that I feel like a lot of women are feeling right now is obviously betrayal by the Republican Party on behalf of the nation's women, but also from the Democratic Party and their absolute inaction.
00:02:32
Speaker
on protecting women's abortion rights at the federal level for now what's been five decades
Democratic Party Criticism
00:02:38
Speaker
of debate.
00:02:38
Speaker
And I'm not saying it's been easy.
00:02:39
Speaker
I'm not saying they haven't been met with opposition, but it does seem like it's been so often put on the back burner in favor of other issues, as well as a somewhat dismissive attitude about the reality that Roe v. Wade could be overturned.
00:02:55
Speaker
And there was no such bigger bumbling of that fact.
00:02:58
Speaker
Well, a lot of people argued that Ruth Bader Ginsburg should have retired during Obama's term.
00:03:03
Speaker
I'm not one of those people that's going to come down on her for that, because like, once again, I don't think it was it should have been only up to one person in the government to determine all of protections for abortion rights for all of American women.
00:03:14
Speaker
There is things that could be done at the federal level, as well as like Obama not confirming an additional Supreme Court justice and pushing that forward before the election cycle.
00:03:23
Speaker
in which they lost the ability to make an additional election to the Supreme Court before the Republicans took control.
00:03:29
Speaker
Can I just say it's such bullshit and like your legal system is so fucked that Obama was not able to nominate any Supreme Court justices.
00:03:37
Speaker
He was in office for eight years and Trump was there for court.
00:03:40
Speaker
He was able to.
00:03:42
Speaker
He backed down to the Republicans.
00:03:44
Speaker
Or they blocked Merrick Garland.
00:03:45
Speaker
But he also like didn't fight it, right?
00:03:48
Speaker
It's one of those things where they said, oh, we're not going to approve anybody for eight months.
00:03:51
Speaker
And then the Democrats just folded on that.
00:03:53
Speaker
And then the Republicans did the same fucking thing.
00:03:55
Speaker
Who was it who died?
00:03:57
Speaker
Like, was it weeks before the election or something?
00:03:59
Speaker
Like, yeah, we're just going to... Ruth Bader Ginsburg, they pushed through Amy Coney Barrett.
00:04:02
Speaker
It was Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
00:04:04
Speaker
And then they fast tracked Coney Barrett.
00:04:06
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:04:07
Speaker
They're such fucking cheaters.
00:04:08
Speaker
Like your whole government is full of fucking cheaters.
00:04:11
Speaker
It's so shitty.
00:04:13
Speaker
I feel so angry watching it.
00:04:15
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:04:16
Speaker
Just a quick question.
Supreme Court & Federal Laws
00:04:17
Speaker
So say, for example, there is a federal law that's passed that protects abortion.
00:04:22
Speaker
Can the Supreme Court overrule that?
00:04:24
Speaker
Yes, they can, but it's much harder.
00:04:27
Speaker
Right.
00:04:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:28
Speaker
I believe the Supreme Court is able to overrule or, you know, strike down any law, even federally.
00:04:34
Speaker
I'm pretty sure there has to be like a court case that goes up through, you know, the court system that someone would have to like essentially sue the government.
00:04:42
Speaker
Right.
00:04:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:43
Speaker
Some of this was...
00:04:44
Speaker
changed during the reconstruction, which is like the post-Civil War era, but a constitutional provision announcing the supremacy of federal law, the supremacy clause assumes that the underlying priority of federal authority, albeit only when the authority is expressed in the constitution itself, no matter what the federal or state governments might wish to do, they must stay within the bounds of the constitution.
00:05:02
Speaker
So consequently, the supremacy clause is considered a cornerstone of the United States federal political structure.
00:05:07
Speaker
So they can like strike down certain things as unconstitutional,
00:05:12
Speaker
Right.
00:05:12
Speaker
But they can't just overrule it as like just because they want to.
00:05:15
Speaker
So basically how we would have to do it to enshrine it in federal law is both we'd have to make it a federal law, like push it through Congress.
00:05:22
Speaker
The Supreme Court could come back and try to strike it down as unconstitutional.
00:05:25
Speaker
But it could also be put forth as some kind of amendment.
00:05:28
Speaker
Right.
00:05:29
Speaker
Like there's multiple ways to do this.
00:05:31
Speaker
And so why haven't they done that until now?
00:05:33
Speaker
Well, it's complicated.
00:05:34
Speaker
So basically the central issue is that the way Congress is structured, you have the House of Representatives, which is based on the population of each state, and then you have the Senate, which is two people from each state.
Senate Representation & Abortion
00:05:45
Speaker
Each state gets two senators to represent them in the Senate.
00:05:48
Speaker
So the
00:05:49
Speaker
Issue is, is that there's a lot of numeric wise, what we would like to call flyover states in the United States that vote heavily Republican and tend to send pro-life Republican candidates to the Senate.
00:06:02
Speaker
So any type of movement on abortion, even when it's had majority vote in the House.
00:06:07
Speaker
And they're overrepresented because they're like depopulated compared to like California, which is giant in terms of population, also only gets two representatives compared to like, I don't know, what's the population of Alabama?
00:06:18
Speaker
Hold on.
00:06:19
Speaker
Yeah, 3 million versus like what?
00:06:21
Speaker
How many people are in California?
00:06:22
Speaker
Like 65 million or something like that?
00:06:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:25
Speaker
So unfortunately, that means that people within the Senate, each state has equal representation within the Senate.
00:06:31
Speaker
which is often used to override ideas that otherwise have the popular vote by the American people, even in the House.
00:06:40
Speaker
Basically, you vote based on land, not on population for the Senate.
00:06:44
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:06:45
Speaker
So yeah, within the bounds of your state, everybody gets two senators in the Senate.
00:06:48
Speaker
And that was a compromise that was made to balance out the power.
00:06:51
Speaker
Because remember, a lot of these provisions were made when we didn't have all these different states.
00:06:56
Speaker
So this was basically a compromise that was reached even prior to us having 50 states in the United States to balance out the distribution of power between the more populated states and the less populated states.
00:07:06
Speaker
I mean, it's always contentious because of the fact that it can result in things like this, where a minority of people are pushing through polities that the actual majority of the population don't agree with.
00:07:19
Speaker
Yeah, like gun laws, abortion.
00:07:21
Speaker
Like gun laws, abortion.
00:07:23
Speaker
So this is going to be an ongoing discussion.
00:07:25
Speaker
So one of the things I wrote on my Twitter is that we have to, in order to start to push for abortion rights on the federal level, we will have to turn people in the red states to pro-choice.
00:07:38
Speaker
And there's no way to do that without actually talking to people who are conservative and specifically conservative women, conservative women especially, about why they support abortion bans and what their issues are.
00:07:51
Speaker
Because often people create caricatures about what people's concerns are about abortion rights and why certain women would be motivated to vote pro-life.
00:08:02
Speaker
I think that it's important to, in this case, try to create some kind of bipartisan coalition of women to protect the rights of women to choose.
00:08:11
Speaker
Now, when we first had Elle on here, who's a Republican, we got a lot of flack from people.
00:08:16
Speaker
We got a lot of flack from the FDS subscribers.
00:08:19
Speaker
We got a lot of flack from the subreddit, obviously.
00:08:21
Speaker
We got a lot of flack from the FDS Patreon subscribers.
00:08:24
Speaker
and from Reddit in general.
00:08:26
Speaker
But I think a lot of us saw this coming in the sense of like, if we don't start to reach across the aisle to women and talk to them about prioritizing women's interests, then there'll be this continuous divide and conquer strategy when it comes to parsing out women's rights in between the two parties.
00:08:43
Speaker
The Republicans will use it as a wedge issue.
00:08:46
Speaker
The Democrats use it as a scary issue to raise funding.
00:08:49
Speaker
And in between are millions upon millions of women who aren't getting the care that they need.
00:08:54
Speaker
Agreed.
00:08:55
Speaker
I mean, like, personally
Impact on Poor Women & Republican Hypocrisy
00:08:56
Speaker
speaking, I also have a lot more time for, I guess, conservative women slash Republican women in the sense because they are still, even though they may vote for these, you know, for these laws that...
00:09:08
Speaker
disadvantaged women they're also affected by misogyny as well and that is why I will you know continue to try to reason with them at the same time though I also understand if somebody doesn't want to because if they feel like it's too much emotional labor that's fine but I mean ultimately these are still women who are also impacted by misogyny like you said and you know just like Rose said if you know we don't reach out to them we can't leave them to the claws of conservative men basically exactly
00:09:39
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:09:39
Speaker
Like we can't set them adrift because that's exactly where they're going to go straight to conservative men who hate women even more.
00:09:46
Speaker
And let's be clear about this.
00:09:47
Speaker
A lot of these states, even the women within these states who are advocating for abortion rights to be restricted, it's basically going to affect the poorest women the most.
00:09:55
Speaker
So there's a lot of people who talk pro-choice and the statements that's been made over and over on Twitter, but remains true is that this is really just abortion restrictions on women who can't afford to cross state lines.
00:10:06
Speaker
which is devastating for them because they often they can't afford health care in the first place, period, in order to prevent the pregnancy.
00:10:12
Speaker
And then if they get pregnant, especially if it's through no fault of their own, they have no ability to terminate said pregnancy safely and healthily.
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah, like, isn't it basically a meme of like the Republican politician who sends his mistress to get an abortion in another state?
00:10:26
Speaker
You know, like, so this is only going to affect like, first of all, these lawmakers are hypocrites.
00:10:31
Speaker
They're pro-choice in the streets.
00:10:34
Speaker
The only moral abortion is their abortion.
00:10:36
Speaker
That's how they see it.
00:10:37
Speaker
Exactly.
00:10:38
Speaker
And even women actually who are pro-life or conservative women will, or right-wing women will have abortions and like they justify it in their head, but they still think it's wrong.
00:10:46
Speaker
They just like accept their punishment in their mind or whatever.
00:10:50
Speaker
And that's, to be honest, I sort of feel like it's possible to be pro-life as long as you then don't extend that to other people.
00:10:57
Speaker
Like my sister sort of holds that position, which I completely respect.
00:11:00
Speaker
She's pro-life in the sense that she couldn't or wouldn't consider abortion, but she doesn't expect other people to make, you know, to feel the same way.
00:11:08
Speaker
Or she doesn't feel like she can make that choice for other people.
00:11:11
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of pro-life people are the opposite.
00:11:12
Speaker
Like, yeah, again, if you want to be pro-life for yourself, that's part of being pro-choice is choosing not to have an abortion, actually.
00:11:19
Speaker
But then a lot of these pro-life people, like, they'll have an abortion or they'll, you know, make sure their daughter, their mistress or whatever has an abortion if they want one.
00:11:26
Speaker
But it's other people having an abortion that they want to regulate.
00:11:30
Speaker
So, and that's the problem.
00:11:31
Speaker
That's what the conflict comes down to.
00:11:33
Speaker
So I've been perusing a lot of conservative media, especially conservative women's media, to get some kind of feel as to what's going on in the heads of the women who are celebrating today about the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
Conservative Media & Hookup Culture
00:11:47
Speaker
And I was led to go to our favorite punching bag, Evie Magazine, which is like conservative Cosmo.
00:11:52
Speaker
And they've name dropped us and called us incels on their magazine before.
00:11:57
Speaker
They're primarily conservative magazine.
00:11:59
Speaker
And when you read the comments, and I guess I'll link this in the show notes, when you link the comments to this, there's an article that was written that they put out called overturning Roe v. Wade will improve women's sex lives and the quality of men they date in the long run.
00:12:10
Speaker
The increased likelihood of becoming a mother makes you think more long-term, more critically about what you do with your body.
00:12:15
Speaker
So the angle they're taking and what a lot of their readership is celebrating is the end of hookup culture.
00:12:20
Speaker
which is mind blowing, right?
00:12:22
Speaker
Because we drag hookup culture and we talked about how shit hookup culture is.
00:12:26
Speaker
Yeah, you don't need to ban abortion to get rid of hookup culture.
00:12:30
Speaker
God.
00:12:31
Speaker
Exactly.
00:12:31
Speaker
But you see how like they're recognizing the problem and then the solution that's been spoon fed to them is the devil's bargain where they're saying, oh, if you get rid of women's ability to have abortions, then men will be forced to stop hooking up and men will be forced to be more committed and romantic.
00:12:48
Speaker
you'll be able to say no to men.
00:12:51
Speaker
And quite literally, someone says in these comments, I'm glad for this decision because finally we'll put an end to hookup culture and women will have more of an excuse to say no when men are trying to pressure them into sex.
00:13:04
Speaker
So a lot of women on the right who are young, especially are viewing this as a way to return to traditional values and put restrictions on hookup culture because they feel like they're being exploited by that culture.
00:13:17
Speaker
But the problem is, is that the woman still disproportionately bears all the risk and there's nothing stopping the guy from leaving her holding the bag.
00:13:26
Speaker
Or just raping her.
00:13:27
Speaker
And this is again, this is what makes me so angry is that, you know, yes, we can say that it can cause men to be more careful because ultimately they're not the ones holding the bag.
00:13:35
Speaker
Like they're not the ones who are going to have to look for an abortion clinic or, you know, they're not the ones at risk of prosecution, which is why I fully believe that if they're going to restrict abortion, they should also, you know, pass restrictions on men as well.
00:13:49
Speaker
But it's not even just enough.
00:13:50
Speaker
I think people have a very ignorant view of what women, even who were married, went through before they had access to abortion care, because it's more single women are getting abortions because there's just more single women, period.
00:14:03
Speaker
But it's not like single women exclusively get abortions.
00:14:06
Speaker
There's a lot of women who are married who are trying to escape abusive partners, women who were forced into marriages, especially if they come from poor areas or they're forced into marriages when they were underage.
00:14:15
Speaker
And women who already have children and they're happily married, but they don't want any more as well.
00:14:20
Speaker
Right.
00:14:20
Speaker
And women who physically need abortions because even if they might not die doing it, it's just so high risk that they choose not to take the risk.
00:14:27
Speaker
Right.
00:14:28
Speaker
They could face physical disability because
Health Risks & Abortion Laws
00:14:30
Speaker
of the pregnancy.
00:14:30
Speaker
Like there's a lot of things that can significantly decrease your physical abilities and quality of life that don't result in death.
00:14:38
Speaker
So if the only clause is the exception of death, you're basically saying that you have to always take on a massive risk to your physical well-being to carry forth the child to term.
00:14:47
Speaker
which could include things like permanent incontinence.
00:14:50
Speaker
You know, there's lots of things that affect women during the birthing process.
00:14:54
Speaker
Like your blood pressure could go up.
00:14:55
Speaker
You could have like gestational induced diabetes.
00:14:58
Speaker
You could literally tear from your vagina to your asshole.
00:15:01
Speaker
Like there's so many complications that come with pregnancy.
00:15:04
Speaker
Yeah, but it's extremely frustrating to see this because I think what's failed in its messaging, and I think this is where a lot of feminists on the left, we have to do some soul searching when we're talking, when we're trying to converse with conservative women and converse with women on the right, is first of all, a lot of the women who get abortions, who had gotten abortions, especially in older generations, have to talk about what it was like before then.
00:15:27
Speaker
Like, it's so hard to actually find those narratives because so many women stay silent.
00:15:31
Speaker
And instead, the face of the abortion movement has become...
00:15:34
Speaker
tied in a lot of ways to identity politics rather than being shown as the healthcare decision that it is, right?
00:15:40
Speaker
For many, many women who cannot carry babies to term for whatever reason, even if the answer is they just don't want to.
00:15:46
Speaker
I feel like some conservative women can be like worth working with and like, you know, organizing with and so on.
00:15:53
Speaker
But like,
00:15:53
Speaker
Honestly, a lot of conservative women are just callous as fuck.
00:15:56
Speaker
Like Elle is a good person.
00:15:59
Speaker
She's like not like other conservatives, but like so many of these conservative women that I'm seeing, it's all about just like, it makes it easier for me to say no if I don't want to have sex.
00:16:08
Speaker
It's like, first of all, they're so naive, like know what men are like.
00:16:12
Speaker
Like you can just say no and then just like rape you anyways.
00:16:15
Speaker
Right.
00:16:16
Speaker
So a lot of the conservative women are like delusional in terms of like they hold men in a much higher esteem than they generally deserve.
00:16:23
Speaker
And men can also lie as well.
00:16:25
Speaker
They can say, yeah, we'll have a relationship and then just ghost.
00:16:27
Speaker
Like that happens all the time.
00:16:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:30
Speaker
Like they're way too overly optimistic about male nature and like way, way, way too callous towards women.
00:16:39
Speaker
The fact that this could negatively impact other women, they don't even care.
00:16:43
Speaker
They literally see those women as like harlots and hoes and like they deserve to suffer.
00:16:47
Speaker
Like they're actually that callous.
00:16:49
Speaker
Again, like
00:16:50
Speaker
you know, we have to choose our allies carefully.
00:16:52
Speaker
And like some conservative women are not a monolith.
00:16:54
Speaker
Some women, yeah, like, I feel like are worth conversing with and working towards like a common, like pro-female goal.
00:17:00
Speaker
A lot of these women are just like, they just don't see it as like, they're just hyper individualistic.
00:17:07
Speaker
They're morally bankrupt.
00:17:08
Speaker
They overly identify with men and don't identify with women at all.
00:17:12
Speaker
And I just think that those women are beyond saving, honestly.
00:17:15
Speaker
I don't think they can't be saved.
00:17:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:18
Speaker
I mean, I agree.
00:17:19
Speaker
There's a population that, of course, are never going to be convinced.
00:17:22
Speaker
But I think what I'm most afraid of is that we lose the information war about why abortion rights are important.
00:17:28
Speaker
And because we don't address some of the concerns coming from the right, like the right has basically effectively weaponized hookup culture to young women, as well as giving them the boogeyman that the left wants them to abort their children and not support their right
Conservative Media Tactics
00:17:44
Speaker
to life.
00:17:44
Speaker
Right.
00:17:44
Speaker
Right.
00:17:45
Speaker
So I'm like, I feel like if we don't address the boogeymen that they're creating, the women who are like who are changeable won't.
00:17:52
Speaker
True.
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:52
Speaker
Because a lot of conservative women are their anxieties are manipulated so easily by conservative men.
00:17:58
Speaker
That's so true.
00:17:59
Speaker
And like I used to be, because I grew up in a really evangelical Christian background, I used to be anti-abortion, anti-sex before marriage.
00:18:08
Speaker
And it was really only when I went to university and started mixing with many of the LGBT plus crowd and, you know, more liberal people that my views actually changed.
00:18:18
Speaker
So again, it is possible, but...
00:18:21
Speaker
I think the caveat that is it's also understandable if a woman or anybody doesn't want to engage and reach across the aisle.
00:18:28
Speaker
But I think there should be some level of engagement across the aisle.
00:18:32
Speaker
Because, you know, somebody can be a staunch anti-abortion person.
00:18:36
Speaker
It's possible for them to change their mind, even if they dig their heels in, even if they believe that if you need an abortion, it's because you're a hoe, like I used to believe in.
00:18:45
Speaker
It is possible for them to change their mind.
00:18:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker
Exposure to different ideas is important, I guess.
00:18:49
Speaker
I guess what I'm trying to say is, first of all, in the United States, if we want anything passed in a federal level, then we have to reach out to women who live in red states.
00:18:58
Speaker
I know there's women that already agree with abortion rights who live in red states, but there has to be enough so that they can force their parties to consider pro-choice candidates, right?
00:19:07
Speaker
Like the biggest problem we have right now is that we can't
00:19:10
Speaker
make abortion rights the law of the land because there's not enough consensus within the United States on our federal level and definitely not on our state level.
00:19:18
Speaker
So what we're going to end up in this country is a hodgepodge of extremely draconian complete abortion bans and then abortion and reproductive freedom, which to me creates a really unfair burden on the women who are remaining in those states because let's be clear, the red states are disproportionately poor in comparison to most of the blue states.
00:19:37
Speaker
There needs to be like some kind of like refugee or like asylum program for women in
Refugee Program Proposal
00:19:42
Speaker
red states.
00:19:42
Speaker
I don't know.
00:19:43
Speaker
Like I'd be fine with like, yeah, I feel like these states that are extremely hostile to women deserve to like when women leave the community, the community dies.
00:19:52
Speaker
So I just think the women there should leave en masse, leave all the conservative pick me's who want to be like forcibly bred.
00:19:58
Speaker
If they want to stay there, they can stay there if they want.
00:20:00
Speaker
But the ones who want to leave need to be evacuated.
00:20:03
Speaker
I want to like rescue as many.
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah, like a refugee program to blue states.
00:20:07
Speaker
I mean, that could be an option.
00:20:08
Speaker
I mean, the issue is, of course, that these are poor states, so it's not easy for them to pick up and move.
00:20:12
Speaker
But I think as far as strategy about how do we help the women...
00:20:16
Speaker
who need abortions within those states.
00:20:18
Speaker
I think you're correct in that some kind of strategy to set up a refugee program or asylum if they travel interstate for an abortion would be an effective and proactive strategy that could be enacted by the states that still protect reproductive freedom.
00:20:30
Speaker
And then those states are going to be like fucking handmaid's tale.
00:20:33
Speaker
They're going to have like border patrols trying to like, you know...
00:20:36
Speaker
try it i'm probably going to set up some kind of law like it's illegal to try to leave to get an abortion or whatever it's gonna create such messed up like dynamics within the states where like some states individual states are gonna be like gilead like forcing women to give birth against their will and you know having i don't know like checks at the border to see if you have any pregnant women you know kind of some messed up stuff because it's
00:20:57
Speaker
going to get to a point where enough women leave they're going to start freaking out about the dropping declining birth rate there's going to
Future Restrictive Measures
00:21:03
Speaker
create more if you have certain some of these poor states with no women or fewer women it's going to create a lot of like instability like think of all the single men that you know anytime you have more single men than
00:21:14
Speaker
women, it creates like social instability, right?
00:21:18
Speaker
So they're probably going to try to come up with strategies.
00:21:20
Speaker
It's like, you know, you could create an environment where women would want to live, right?
00:21:24
Speaker
But they're probably not going to do that, because that would be hard.
00:21:26
Speaker
They're going to go the punitive police state route of like, you know, kidnapping women or preventing them from leaving the state or whatever, like, or, you know, imprisoning women who are pregnant and forcing them to give birth, like there's going to be some dark days ahead, honestly, in the United States.
00:21:40
Speaker
I'm not excited for what how that's going to break out.
00:21:42
Speaker
Which is terrifying.
00:21:44
Speaker
And it's hard not to feel a sense of hopelessness and helplessness.
00:21:47
Speaker
But I guess I'm just saying, where do we go from here?
00:21:50
Speaker
And how do we strategize from here?
00:21:52
Speaker
The only way that I see that we move forward is either one, you allow the carnage to get so bad, it might end up being this way in these states where they've put an all in out total abortion ban that either the women leave or
00:22:06
Speaker
And hopefully don't get detained at the border by insane conservatives, which, again, is a real possibility because they already have whistleblowers.
00:22:13
Speaker
Just look at how they fucking bomb abortion clinics.
00:22:16
Speaker
They are absolutely going to stop women at the border and prevent them from leaving.
00:22:20
Speaker
They have whistleblower laws, too, as well.
00:22:22
Speaker
So even if they don't stop you, you know, in Texas, they have the whistleblower law where somebody can call the cops on you if they suspect you of having an abortion and you can be sued.
00:22:30
Speaker
Or if they suspect you're trying to leave, like your neighbors who are pro-life, you know, they know you're pregnant and you want to get rid of it.
00:22:36
Speaker
They see you suddenly start packing up your car.
00:22:38
Speaker
They put in a tip and get that $10,000 reward like they have in Texas, right?
00:22:42
Speaker
Like that shit's dark.
00:22:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:45
Speaker
I'm like, I have no words.
00:22:47
Speaker
Honestly, it's so shocking.
00:22:49
Speaker
So I think for this next segment, we can talk about how we think the overturning of Roe v. Wade will affect dating for the foreseeable future.
Dating Challenges & Coercion
00:22:57
Speaker
So my sense is that business as usual will continue in the blue states where they have strong abortion protections.
00:23:04
Speaker
For women in the red states, you're talking about absolute carnage because...
00:23:08
Speaker
We've talked about this multiple times here, but coercive control will be at an all-time high.
00:23:12
Speaker
If all you have to do is report or report a woman for attempting to end a pregnancy, if a woman's afraid of leaving a relationship because she's pregnant with an abusive man, abusive man's baby, if they start to expand father's rights, quote, even more so than they have, these women will live with incredible amounts of unprecedented restrictions.
00:23:33
Speaker
Yeah, everyone's saying delete your period tracking apps.
00:23:36
Speaker
Like, you know, they're going to track, use this data to, you know, verify if you were pregnant.
00:23:40
Speaker
Like, coercive control from, like, individual men and from the government is going to be at an all-time high.
00:23:45
Speaker
So don't give them anything on you, sadly.
00:23:48
Speaker
So the narrative that's coming out from conservative women is that a lot of them feel that they're being pressured into abortions by the boyfriend or the family of the boyfriend or their own family.
00:24:00
Speaker
So there's a lot of women who are celebrating this because they feel that in their circumstance, they may have wanted to keep the baby, but felt that they were being pressured or bullied by the culture to make abortion the final solution for their issue.
00:24:13
Speaker
So the
00:24:14
Speaker
The problem is, is that it doesn't get rid of the element of coercive control, which is other people being able to make that decision for you.
00:24:20
Speaker
It just makes the decision the other way.
00:24:22
Speaker
I want to say, like, first of all, ladies, if your man or your man's family want you to have an abortion, you need to fucking run.
00:24:29
Speaker
Whether you keep the baby or not, you need to run.
00:24:31
Speaker
Because when you're in a relationship with someone who doesn't want you to keep the baby, that's actually a very dangerous situation.
00:24:37
Speaker
A lot of women end up murdered.
00:24:39
Speaker
I hate to say it, but a lot of women will probably end up being killed actually by their male partners who don't want to have to pay child support or don't want to be a father, right?
00:24:48
Speaker
Abortion actually protects women from that.
00:24:51
Speaker
It's actually true.
00:24:52
Speaker
And also, like, homicide is one of the leading causes of death in pregnant women.
00:24:56
Speaker
Like, a pregnant woman is more likely to die of homicide being murdered than a pregnancy-related complication.
00:25:02
Speaker
Yeah, and it's terrible that women are in that situation where, like, they have to have an abortion.
00:25:07
Speaker
Like, situations where women are forced to have an abortion because the alternative is being murdered is a terrible, terrible situation for women to be in.
00:25:14
Speaker
And it's, like, a huge form of female oppression.
00:25:16
Speaker
And these laws don't seem like they're going to protect women that much.
00:25:19
Speaker
And I think what's happening is that they are hoping these laws will protect them from male violence for women who want to keep their baby.
00:25:26
Speaker
It's going to have the opposite effect.
00:25:28
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:25:28
Speaker
Like conservative women are so fucking naive.
00:25:30
Speaker
They don't understand how men work.
00:25:32
Speaker
They don't understand the depths of male depravity.
00:25:34
Speaker
They're in complete denial over it.
00:25:36
Speaker
They're like, I know good men.
00:25:37
Speaker
My father's a good man.
00:25:38
Speaker
My brother's a good man.
00:25:40
Speaker
I don't think a man would do that.
00:25:41
Speaker
And like...
00:25:43
Speaker
I don't know what to say.
00:25:43
Speaker
Some of these women, the only way that they learn is through the hard way, unfortunately.
00:25:47
Speaker
Like, you know, us women, we can warn them all we want.
00:25:50
Speaker
They're just going to call us fucking femcels like they do on EB Magazine.
00:25:53
Speaker
Okay, sis, it's your funeral.
00:25:55
Speaker
Like, I'm at the point with some of these conservative women.
00:25:57
Speaker
I just almost want to wash my hands of them and let them suffer.
00:26:00
Speaker
Let them suffer the consequences of their own fucking political activism.
00:26:03
Speaker
Well, what scares me actually is the fact that there will be an influx of unwanted children in the foster care system.
Foster Care & Democratic Critique
00:26:10
Speaker
And foster care systems are an absolute nightmare in this country.
00:26:13
Speaker
That's the thing that motivates me even more so than trying to save conservative women from themselves is the reality of an influx of unwanted children who will be subjected to abuse and trafficking.
00:26:23
Speaker
And to quote Amy Coney Barrett, when she was talking about the deficit in the supply of domestic infants, because she talks about people as if they're a commodity.
00:26:32
Speaker
The issue with increasing the amount of children in the foster care system is like the current infrastructure is not set up to take care of the children who are there.
00:26:41
Speaker
There's no preparation along with this bill for the reality of taking care of the increased strain on the foster care system for unwanted children.
00:26:51
Speaker
Like there's just there may or may not be enough homes to place all these children in.
00:26:55
Speaker
Oh, I'm sure they're going to do the same.
00:26:56
Speaker
thing like that they did with the kids at the border where they separated the parents and the kids they just like put the kids in foster care most of those kids end up disappearing probably like kidnapped or trafficked or fucking sold into sexual slavery god knows where right uh sold to pedophiles to make child porn who knows right like these poor ass like states that don't give a shit about human lives or children's lives that have terrible social programs that's probably exactly what's going to happen to all these kids of uh you know who would have otherwise been aborted
00:27:25
Speaker
I'm sorry to be dark, but like, I'm not going to mince words.
00:27:27
Speaker
Like shit's going to get fucked up.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:29
Speaker
I mean, there's no nice way to talk about it.
00:27:31
Speaker
There's no way to sugarcoat what's going to happen.
00:27:34
Speaker
There's no way to reduce the carnage without some kind of massive intervention on the federal level.
00:27:40
Speaker
And like the Democrats are fucking incompetent, impotent imbeciles.
00:27:44
Speaker
They'll never do anything.
00:27:45
Speaker
Like the Republicans are the only one that have any political will or political like vigor and they're fucking psychotic.
00:27:52
Speaker
So...
00:27:54
Speaker
it's like, what else is there to say?
00:27:55
Speaker
Honestly, God, we're witnessing like the end of man, like literally the end of the American empire.
00:28:01
Speaker
And like, there's other shit going on in the States.
00:28:03
Speaker
That's like causing the decline of, you know, the American exceptionalism.
00:28:07
Speaker
I don't know what's the right word for this, like American hegemony, but this is one of the reasons can't get healthcare, can't get gun control laws passed.
00:28:15
Speaker
Like it's a mess.
00:28:16
Speaker
It's not fun or like, this is not a funny episode.
00:28:20
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:28:21
Speaker
Yeah, this isn't really a fun episode.
00:28:22
Speaker
It's just sort of a ranting episode.
00:28:24
Speaker
There's just a part of me that wants to vent, but also like talk about doing the hard work of changing minds and changing the minds of individuals, right?
00:28:33
Speaker
I know that other people don't agree with me.
00:28:35
Speaker
I know people felt like they were quote traumatized when we brought a conservative onto this.
00:28:39
Speaker
podcast, I would really be interested in hearing from our listenership how they feel about this and what they think can be done.
00:28:46
Speaker
Because the answer to me is like either we work to turn people in the red states through changing hearts and minds, through talking about the importance, through answering the questions and the narratives of women who are on the conservative side who are
00:28:58
Speaker
Rightfully scared of coercive control, as well as feeling like they don't get supported if they're young mothers, addressing those types of issues specifically and talking to them and trying to pass abortion rights on a federal level.
00:29:11
Speaker
Or we just let everybody be left to...
00:29:14
Speaker
experienced the absolute devastation and carnage that is of women not having access to their own bodily autonomy.
00:29:20
Speaker
I mean, not to be depressing, but I was reading a lot of accounts from women who work in the healthcare system, especially those who worked prior to Roe v. Wade being passed, and women who are also elderly at this point who were alive and were pregnant before Roe v. Wade was passed, and the amount of children who were abandoned, the amount of women who were murdered because of children the men didn't want,
00:29:43
Speaker
The amount of women who bled out from pregnancy complications, who had literally rotting fetuses inside of their uterus because they couldn't get abortions.
00:29:51
Speaker
The women who tried to go to an abortion clinic that was in secret because they weren't fully licensed and men took advantage of them.
00:29:59
Speaker
Literal abortion doctors who took advantage of the most vulnerable women being harassed in the streets by anti-abortion activists being threatened under violence.
00:30:07
Speaker
Women who were
00:30:08
Speaker
are in marriages, but they can't even afford to take care of all their children becoming destitute and losing their children to the state and being jailed for neglect because they can't afford to take care of these children.
00:30:17
Speaker
This is the future and it's upsetting and it makes all of us angry.
00:30:20
Speaker
This is it.
00:30:21
Speaker
Children who are horribly abused.
00:30:23
Speaker
I don't know.
00:30:23
Speaker
Part of me is like, on the one hand, I feel like some of these conservative women aren't going to like, part of me is like, okay, I'm not really interested in saving some of these conservative women for themselves.
00:30:32
Speaker
Like they're just going to have to live with, they're just going to have to suffer the consequences of their decisions.
00:30:37
Speaker
Honestly, Liz, I'm scared for the kids.
00:30:39
Speaker
I'm scared for the kids.
00:30:40
Speaker
That is true.
00:30:41
Speaker
And unfortunately, like kids can't vote.
00:30:43
Speaker
Like they're completely like the victims in all of this.
00:30:45
Speaker
They have no ability to protect themselves.
00:30:47
Speaker
They rely on adults to protect them.
00:30:49
Speaker
People do horrible things to children they don't want.
00:30:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:52
Speaker
And take it from someone who has people in my life who've worked for the state, especially for CPS.
00:30:58
Speaker
People do awful, unspeakable things to children they don't want.
00:31:01
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:03
Speaker
It's like sometimes abortion, honestly, is like the merciful way out.
00:31:07
Speaker
Is the more merciful option.
00:31:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:09
Speaker
It's merciful.
00:31:11
Speaker
And even people who want kids, it's still tough.
00:31:14
Speaker
Like my sister and her husband have just had a baby and they wanted it.
00:31:18
Speaker
It was planned.
00:31:18
Speaker
They're excited.
00:31:19
Speaker
But like two days in, my brother-in-law just broke down like crying, like never cries.
Personal Experiences & Emotional Toll
00:31:25
Speaker
And my sister actually thought he was going to commit suicide because it was so difficult.
00:31:28
Speaker
And even, you know, the child is wanted, it's still really, really hard.
00:31:32
Speaker
And this is why even if I was pro-life for myself, I can never make that decision for another person.
00:31:38
Speaker
I just couldn't do it.
00:31:39
Speaker
And I wouldn't even want to make that decision for another person.
00:31:42
Speaker
That's the thing that pisses me off about this is like to piggyback what you're saying earlier, Ro.
00:31:46
Speaker
It's like I'm saying that some of these conservative women are just going to have to suffer the consequences of their actions.
00:31:50
Speaker
But it's not even them that's going to suffer the consequences.
00:31:54
Speaker
It's the children who had no part in this who are going to suffer the most.
00:31:58
Speaker
And it's the women who need the abortions.
00:32:01
Speaker
They may not suffer in the sense that the ban on abortion, they think it should have been banned anyway, but it will affect the people that need it.
00:32:09
Speaker
And also another thing as well is that they're not going to stop here.
00:32:12
Speaker
Clarence Thomas has also said that other aspects, landmark ruling, should also be up for...
00:32:18
Speaker
He wants to ban contraception, wants to ban same-sex marriage.
00:32:22
Speaker
Like, psycho shit.
Global Feminist Warning & Political Urgency
00:32:24
Speaker
This is also why I'm also getting really, really angry at the British feminists who are like, well, we're not like America, it will never happen here.
00:32:30
Speaker
You know, what this ruling has, you know, hopefully, you know, shown women around the world is that we can't afford to be complacent with our rights.
00:32:37
Speaker
We have to fight for them every single day.
00:32:39
Speaker
We have to make sure each time there's an election that we're showing up and voting for the candidate who is least shit and crazy.
00:32:46
Speaker
You know, we just can't take our rights for granted.
00:32:49
Speaker
This is why we need feminism.
00:32:50
Speaker
There's been a lot of talk on the left of the Democrats who tried to support anti-choice Democrats.
00:32:58
Speaker
And this is coming from both two most prominent female leaders in the Democratic Party.
00:33:02
Speaker
Nancy Pelosi, as well as Hillary Clinton.
00:33:04
Speaker
And I posted this on my Twitter.
00:33:06
Speaker
Hillary Clinton picked Tim Kaine, who was not in support of many of the provisions that protect abortion rights, including the Hyde Amendment, a legislative provision barring the use of federal funds to pay for abortion, except to save the life of the woman or if the pregnancy arises from incest or rape.
00:33:23
Speaker
So Nancy Pelosi, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland, and Democratic Caucus Chair Hakeem Jeffries of New York endorsed Representative Henry Queller, who was an anti-choice Democrat from Texas, and gets a challenger who was pro-abortion rights.
00:33:38
Speaker
So it seems like even the women who are elected on the Democratic side don't take this seriously and didn't take this seriously as a wedge issue to disqualify people from the Democratic Party.
00:33:50
Speaker
So
00:33:50
Speaker
On the right, you have the hardcore religious conservatives who think that no abortion should be legal anywhere, as well as like moderate Republicans who are with a sprinkling of moderate Republicans who are pro-choice with severe restrictions.
00:34:05
Speaker
And then on the left, you have a bunch of milquetoast, lukewarm people who are vaguely pro-choice, but not willing to do anything to protect it.
00:34:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:15
Speaker
And that's how we got in the situation we're in now.
00:34:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:17
Speaker
So I guess like all the lesson here is like, don't be like milquetoast about your rights.
00:34:22
Speaker
You should be fiery and you should be passionate and like 100% pro self-interest because like these other fucking people, man, like people that we're up against, they're crazy.
00:34:32
Speaker
Like, and they are like willing to fight to the death to get what they want and to fight for their interests.
00:34:39
Speaker
We can't be milquetoast about fighting for our own interests.
00:34:42
Speaker
And they show up, they donate money to these causes, you know, they will campaign.
00:34:46
Speaker
So this is also what we need to be willing to do.
00:34:50
Speaker
If we can afford to put our money where our mouth is, we need to show up to vote.
00:34:54
Speaker
We can't, you know, be complacent because, you know, you choose to stay at home and fold your arms and sort of adopt a, you know, victim mentality as tempting as that is sometimes because it's so shit.
00:35:04
Speaker
You know, then the other side, they're going to be going out, organising and voting and getting the votes they need to push their agenda.
00:35:10
Speaker
Right.
00:35:10
Speaker
And they're going to be doing it in red states.
00:35:11
Speaker
And I don't mean to, once again, lambast the Democratic Party or anybody in the left, but there's a lot of protesting and a lot of not strategizing.
00:35:19
Speaker
And the problem is, is if you're just rallying within the states that already agree with you, then you're effectively not doing anything.
00:35:25
Speaker
Right.
00:35:25
Speaker
You're preaching to the choir.
00:35:26
Speaker
There's no point.
00:35:27
Speaker
Exactly.
00:35:28
Speaker
And so that's why, even though I know I'm taking a lot of flack, I'm going to get a lot of hate for it.
00:35:31
Speaker
Like, I don't see a way out of this unless you start the groundwork in red states.
00:35:36
Speaker
Like, you have to start listening.
00:35:37
Speaker
You have to start changing the minds of individuals.
00:35:40
Speaker
You have to start taking the time to create counter narratives to the women who are reachable, right?
00:35:46
Speaker
I don't think we need to listen to them.
00:35:48
Speaker
They need to fucking listen to us.
00:35:50
Speaker
FDS, for example, like, I don't know, I feel like we don't go out there really like and evangelize a lot.
00:35:55
Speaker
People find us.
00:35:56
Speaker
A lot of women, like they've gone through a traumatic experience with men or, you know, they've basically they've come to realize like, like things are fucked up now.
00:36:03
Speaker
Like, you know, how should I try to fix it?
00:36:05
Speaker
And then they eventually find FDS.
00:36:06
Speaker
Right.
00:36:07
Speaker
Like, I don't know, I feel like a lot of these, like, it's so hard to break into other people's echo chambers, and they're just not interested in listening.
00:36:13
Speaker
And the Republicans, the only thing that causes them to change their mind is like a personal experience.
00:36:17
Speaker
Like, they'll be anti-gay marriage until their daughter comes out as lesbian.
00:36:21
Speaker
They'll be anti-choice until, you know, someone in their life that they care about needs an abortion, right?
00:36:26
Speaker
Like, unfortunately, like, some people just don't learn except for the hard way.
00:36:30
Speaker
And sometimes even then they don't learn.
00:36:32
Speaker
I think what I'm scared of, like I said, I think I'm scared of the attitude of that there's nothing to be done or the only thing we can do is protest with the people who already agree with us and protest in the states with people that already agree with us.
00:36:44
Speaker
Like, you know, when you look at like all the biggest demonstrations, it's in places where abortion rights weren't really under threat.
00:36:50
Speaker
Like people are showing out in California.
00:36:51
Speaker
People are showing out in D.C.
00:36:53
Speaker
People are showing out in New York.
00:36:55
Speaker
Those are states with very generous abortion laws who were never passed anything that was anti-cognitive.
00:37:00
Speaker
So I think the question to me is like, how serious are we as feminists, right,
Long-term Effects of Restrictive Laws
00:37:04
Speaker
about this?
00:37:04
Speaker
Like, I think it's an existential threat to our existence as women if we don't actually do the work to change these things in red states.
00:37:12
Speaker
Because remember, this has generational fallout.
00:37:14
Speaker
All the children that will be born today into circumstances.
00:37:17
Speaker
You know, maybe two or three generations down the line when people start to revisit the abortion laws in these states, people will see the consequences of that.
00:37:24
Speaker
But the scary thing to me is like much like the drug war, there could just be like massive amounts of death, violence and all sorts of other things before we create a bipartisan consensus that having abortion, having a choice be protected for women in all of these states is the lesser of two evils, so to speak.
00:37:43
Speaker
Right.
00:37:43
Speaker
In the same way that we say, like legalizing certain drugs is quite superior than to criminalizing people who are drug addicts.
00:37:50
Speaker
Right.
00:37:51
Speaker
And just putting them through the legal system forever.
00:37:53
Speaker
So that what I'm afraid of is like, yes, we leave them to their own devices, but that could be another 30, 40 years.
00:38:00
Speaker
Basically, you're saying like, we need to change hearts and minds in Republican states.
00:38:03
Speaker
And I'm of the view of like, nah, leave them to their own devices, let them suffer the consequences of their own actions.
00:38:08
Speaker
If there are women in those states who want access to abortion, I support like, you know, I think the type of organizing that would be more worthwhile is like having an asylum system or, you know, evacuating as many women as possible out of these states, you know, the women who can't afford to leave or who want to leave, but can't afford to basically.
00:38:26
Speaker
And I think that's like, I think that this needs to actually be the way that we solve issues with women's rights is like, if you're not going to create laws or you're not going to create an environment that is female friendly, the women will leave and the community will die.
00:38:40
Speaker
I think that's actually the only way to solve some of these issues.
00:38:43
Speaker
problems like the mormon communities for example or other highly oppressive communities to women like the solution is to get the women to leave basically and like help the women to understand how to like that they can leave and support them in leaving as much as they can like trying to take like the polygamous morgans and make them more progressive for example is much more difficult than trying to just get the women out of that abusive situation in the first place the community will collapse when the women leave right
00:39:08
Speaker
You know, Warren Jeffries
Manipulation in Conservative Circles
00:39:09
Speaker
is actually still around kicking, by the way, even though he's in prison.
00:39:11
Speaker
Like there's he still has like a lot of supporters.
00:39:14
Speaker
I didn't finish the keep sweet or the keep sweet and pray.
00:39:17
Speaker
I started it.
00:39:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:18
Speaker
But apparently he still has a lot of dedicated followers.
00:39:21
Speaker
This is the scary thing to me is that a lot of women are very easily indoctrinated, even when all everything around them is falling apart.
00:39:29
Speaker
And so I'm just worried at the like the abandonment rhetoric.
00:39:33
Speaker
And then I'm worried that it won't stay contained in the way that people think it will.
00:39:37
Speaker
I think blue states are probably safe in protecting abortion rights, but I'm afraid you can lose the culture war or the cultural conversation around abortion if you don't put feelers out there to constantly, constantly talk about the issues women are facing with their reproductive rights and issues.
00:39:52
Speaker
And especially when we're talking about like the sexual culture war, it seems to be why there's been a resurgence for pro-life on the right.
00:40:01
Speaker
And a lot of it has to do with, at least this is what a lot of the conservative women are quoting, them feeling alienated by hookup culture.
00:40:08
Speaker
Now, rightly or wrongly, if they feel like that's great.
00:40:10
Speaker
I mean, and we talk about being alienated by hookup culture.
00:40:12
Speaker
I think I'm just concerned that if we don't make the steps forward to address these issues and be very loud about it and be like, be accurate and give them a counter narrative to what the Republican Party is going to give them, then the Republican Party will give them one and it'll be extremely anti-woman.
00:40:27
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like the consequence of not being female friendly should be that you lose access to women
Avoiding Hookup Culture
00:40:34
Speaker
is like what I'm saying.
00:40:34
Speaker
And a lot of these women who are against hookup culture, you know, we rail against hookup culture too.
00:40:40
Speaker
And our solution to hookup culture is like block and delete, right?
00:40:44
Speaker
Like if a man's not investing in you, don't give him access to your body kind of thing, right?
00:40:48
Speaker
And I'm not really sure why, like some conservative women like FDS because of that.
00:40:52
Speaker
They like the fact that we tell women like, you don't have to put out right away.
00:40:56
Speaker
You can make a man wait for sex and like the man's supposed to invest in you.
00:40:59
Speaker
And like a lot of conservative women do like FDS because of that.
00:41:02
Speaker
I don't know what to say.
00:41:02
Speaker
It's like, sis, like banning abortion isn't going to get you the result that you want.
00:41:06
Speaker
Nobody thinks it will except for them because that's the line they've been fed by the patriarchs and by the Republican Party.
00:41:13
Speaker
And what I'm saying is if you start to lose the narrative, if you start to lose the information war, then men will create one in the absence of you creating one.
00:41:20
Speaker
Yeah, we definitely need to create a counter narrative for sure.
00:41:23
Speaker
And that's been like the issue, I think, with women's rights in general is a lot of women are identifying problems in their life and then men just sort of swoop down like vultures and then offer a snake oil solution, right?
00:41:35
Speaker
You get this, but you have to compromise this, right?
00:41:37
Speaker
Or you get this, but we're going to take away this other right because you can't have this if you have this, right?
00:41:42
Speaker
And that constant negotiating, it seems like each side of women is making a deal with the devil about how to negotiate their existence and their rights in relation to men, right?
00:41:52
Speaker
And the way that you win in a negotiation is by being willing to walk away.
00:41:55
Speaker
True.
00:41:56
Speaker
Honestly, like that's so important.
00:41:58
Speaker
It's like, ladies, like stop putting yourself in a situation where you feel like you have to negotiate away your basic rights or your basic interests and stuff.
00:42:06
Speaker
You can just be like, I want it all.
00:42:08
Speaker
You don't have to compromise.
00:42:09
Speaker
So you see like the bubble that we talk about liberal feminists exist in where they feel like, oh, a man should be able to expect sex after three dates and that it's on feminists to expect a man to do anything special for you because you're equal and then focusing on trying to push women to be more like men and like drag the sexual culture to the absolute drag to prove that women are just as like depraved as men, while a lot of women are
00:42:35
Speaker
within this culture of being abused and taken advantage of because they're pushing this narrative that makes no sense.
00:42:41
Speaker
I feel like that also just happens on the conservative side where like they're being told by the men over there that the reason why these guys sexually harass you is because of hookup
Controlling Women's Rights Narratives
00:42:50
Speaker
culture.
00:42:50
Speaker
you want a husband and you want like your 2.3 kids and you want a nice life and you have to attack abortion and you have to attack the leftists who want to sexually exploit you, right?
00:42:59
Speaker
Like they're in a similar bubble.
00:43:00
Speaker
And what I'm scared of is like that we won't be able to reach anybody.
00:43:04
Speaker
Like I'm scared of just only focusing on this bubble and not focusing on the other bubble and then completely abandoning it when like I do think a portion of them are very reachable.
00:43:12
Speaker
And ultimately we do need them to actually get anything past in the federal level in these red states.
00:43:16
Speaker
I guess I'm just like, if we can poke through the liberal bubble, is it possible to poke through the conservative bubble?
00:43:21
Speaker
Not all of them, of course, but some of them.
00:43:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:24
Speaker
Much in the same way that there are some like LibFem pick me's who are just beyond saving and like they'll never learn except for the consequences of their own actions.
00:43:31
Speaker
And even then they might never learn.
00:43:32
Speaker
There are conservative women like that too, right?
00:43:34
Speaker
So I think the best we can do and like the most achievable thing is just to, you know, focus on like minded women who feel the same way about the problems that we're facing of like, you know, we don't like dating culture right now.
00:43:45
Speaker
We're not happy with the way that men are treating us and so on.
00:43:49
Speaker
Right.
00:43:49
Speaker
And so the conservative men are like, ha ha, it's the feminist fault.
00:43:52
Speaker
This is happening to you.
00:43:53
Speaker
Like they told you to go out in the world, et cetera, et cetera.
00:43:56
Speaker
Then they read some Bible verse.
00:43:57
Speaker
and work and pay for dates and stuff.
00:44:00
Speaker
And yeah, so again, it's like, I'm not going to bend over backwards trying to cater to conservative women.
00:44:04
Speaker
I'm just going to continue with the FDS, you know, the push forward with the FDS, you know, existing narrative.
00:44:09
Speaker
If conservative women like that and they want to join us, then they're welcome.
00:44:14
Speaker
But yeah, other than that, I'm like, I feel like I also need to set some boundaries with women who are not ideologically aligned with me in a way, you know, I think it's sad that like leftists are always trying to like, oh, let's reach out to conservative women.
00:44:27
Speaker
And it's like those conservative women, a lot of them don't want to be reached out to.
00:44:30
Speaker
And it's like kind of pathetic.
00:44:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:32
Speaker
I think we see the ones that are really sad, right?
00:44:35
Speaker
So the next Instagram post next to this one about the hookup culture is a bunch of Instagram comments about women who had abortions and regret it and who feel haunted by it, who were pushed into it under unfavorable circumstances and who were coerced into it.
00:44:48
Speaker
So again, a lot of this is their solution to what coercive control is.
00:44:53
Speaker
And I feel like if you don't poke the bubble here, a lot of them are feeling like, okay, I was pressured into an abortion I didn't want.
00:44:58
Speaker
So
00:44:58
Speaker
This video that they put here is like, quote, women don't regret abortion.
00:45:02
Speaker
And it's like written sarcastically.
00:45:04
Speaker
And it says, if I could go back, I wouldn't have had one.
00:45:06
Speaker
It was with my current husband when we were young and in college.
00:45:09
Speaker
No one talks about the pain and the emotions that go along with such a heartbreaking
Coercive Control & Supportive Cultures
00:45:12
Speaker
decision.
00:45:12
Speaker
It's not something to be taken lightly.
00:45:14
Speaker
We have to elevate the voices of people's regrets.
00:45:17
Speaker
You don't need to make abortion illegal to avoid that, right?
00:45:20
Speaker
Like I said, most of it seems like what they're upset about is the coercive control aspect of it, that like the culture is encouraging them if they're too young to financially support their baby to have an abortion.
00:45:30
Speaker
But they're like, I would rather have had my child.
00:45:32
Speaker
And what they're calling right to life, like right to life advocates are saying that society should be restricted in such a way that women should be able to have children whenever they want, rather than the current culture, which is basically discouraging women if you can't afford a child to have an abortion.
00:45:47
Speaker
So I think a lot of them are expressing the regret because they feel like they shouldn't.
00:45:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:50
Speaker
And these women are they don't support social programs that would help.
00:45:54
Speaker
Like they rail against, you know, welfare queens and single moms relying on welfare and stuff like that.
00:46:00
Speaker
Like they basically want men to step up and like pay for their kids and stuff.
00:46:04
Speaker
Right.
00:46:04
Speaker
But like banning abortion isn't the way that you're going to do that.
00:46:07
Speaker
And most of these women don't support conservative women generally don't support.
00:46:11
Speaker
I think they don't know that banning abortion is not going to do that because a lot of these a lot of these women are young.
00:46:16
Speaker
That's what I mean about them being fucking naive.
00:46:19
Speaker
Right.
00:46:19
Speaker
They're in a bubble.
00:46:20
Speaker
I agree.
00:46:20
Speaker
They're in a bubble.
00:46:21
Speaker
Like this one says, this woman says, I don't know not one woman personally who shared that they had an abortion with me who really wanted one.
00:46:27
Speaker
They were scared.
00:46:28
Speaker
Their parents, their family, their advisors were fear mongering them.
00:46:31
Speaker
They thought that was their only choice because bringing that child to term would somehow ruin everything.
00:46:35
Speaker
And when they try to share their feelings and experiences, they are antagonized by women who have had abortions with allegedly no regrets.
00:46:40
Speaker
If you have no regrets, all right, but don't dim the trauma of others because you feel threatened.
00:46:43
Speaker
You'd be surprised how many have been in dark places and abortion was a potential choice and they really wished it wasn't and would do anything to go back in time and do things differently.
00:46:51
Speaker
So I guess I kind of look at these women very similar to detransitioners in the sense that like they were coerced into a medical decision that they deeply, deeply regret by maybe well-meaning people.
00:47:02
Speaker
And we're not told about other options.
00:47:04
Speaker
They didn't feel like there were other options.
00:47:06
Speaker
They were maybe railroaded into the medical decision.
00:47:09
Speaker
And like I said, I feel like it's fair to try to address this aspect of coercive control where people are being pressured into abortions they don't want.
00:47:16
Speaker
And the culture supports and just kind of unilaterally supporting women who can't afford to have children to have abortions like a
00:47:22
Speaker
think on FDS, like we would always say that's the better choice, but it shouldn't be that we exist in a society and a culture
Critical Thinking on Life Choices
00:47:28
Speaker
in which if a woman for whatever reason chooses to have her child, there's nothing there by way of support for her.
00:47:34
Speaker
Right.
00:47:35
Speaker
I get that, but like, I understand like their feelings and their perspective and stuff.
00:47:39
Speaker
What I don't get is like the seeming like lack of
00:47:41
Speaker
critical thinking skills of like, okay, this is a problem that I've had, like, how do I go about strategizing to find a solution?
00:47:48
Speaker
Like, you know, they were saying, oh, you know, I felt coerced by the culture and so on.
00:47:52
Speaker
Okay, then the solution is, how do we create an environment or culture where women who are pregnant feel supported, and their lives won't be ruined by an unplanned pregnancy?
00:48:02
Speaker
Right.
00:48:03
Speaker
So that conversation would probably go something like, oh, you know, we probably should have some kind of like social programs or something like that.
00:48:09
Speaker
Again, conservatives, they don't support social programs.
00:48:11
Speaker
They think it should just be like pull yourself up by the bootstraps and maybe, you know, get support from your family or something like that, but have a very individualistic approach to these kinds of problems.
00:48:20
Speaker
Right.
00:48:21
Speaker
And.
00:48:21
Speaker
Yeah, like banning abortion isn't going to get you the result that you want.
00:48:24
Speaker
So it's like, I don't know what to tell you.
00:48:25
Speaker
Like, I'm just going back to think like young women, they like say they're 18 or 19 young, married, pregnant, but they can't afford to have a kid.
00:48:33
Speaker
Imagine if abortion was illegal, and they're actually forced to carry that pregnancy to term and how different their life might be, their life might actually be worse.
00:48:40
Speaker
Honestly, like right now, they're saying, Oh, I had an abortion, I regret it.
00:48:43
Speaker
Well, we I don't know what their life is like, but they probably have like a job and a career and, you know, maybe a house and their life is probably like, overall, like fine, you know, but they regret they're thinking, Oh, you know, my life would be so great if I have a kid.
00:48:54
Speaker
Well, you know, you might have a kid, but you'd also probably be poor, you might not have finished your education, you know, your life might have turned out way differently could have turned out a lot worse, right?
00:49:02
Speaker
Who knows, it could have turned out better.
00:49:04
Speaker
Maybe some people are lucky, they get support from their families and stuff, right?
00:49:07
Speaker
But they just don't really seem to think about like, I don't understand these people don't like think things through to the end.
00:49:14
Speaker
They just think, oh, you know, I had an abortion when I was younger and I'm sad about it and I regret it.
00:49:17
Speaker
Okay, but like, take it mentally the next step.
00:49:20
Speaker
I think we got to help them.
00:49:21
Speaker
Yeah, like all of you women out there who regret your abortions, like think critically, like what would your life have been like had you kept your baby?
00:49:28
Speaker
Would you have finished your school?
00:49:30
Speaker
Would you have the job that you have now?
00:49:32
Speaker
Would you be with the same man?
00:49:34
Speaker
Right.
00:49:34
Speaker
Or would you be with the men we are now?
00:49:36
Speaker
Because if you remember, a lot of these women aren't necessarily college educated.
00:49:40
Speaker
In fact, I think overwhelmingly women on the right are less college educated than the left.
00:49:45
Speaker
So you're talking about women whose life they might be working the same shit job they were prior to them having the abortion.
00:49:51
Speaker
So their life might not have been significantly changed.
00:49:54
Speaker
And they're thinking, oh, my life would be so magical.
00:49:56
Speaker
I'd be a housewife with kids and stuff like that.
00:49:58
Speaker
Like, yeah, if you're lucky and you marry the right guy who can support you, but a lot of women don't end up with that.
00:50:03
Speaker
A lot of them end up single mothers or end up in abusive relationships.
00:50:06
Speaker
Like they have this like fantasy of what their life would be like if they hadn't had an abortion.
00:50:10
Speaker
And it's like that fantasy is not true.
00:50:12
Speaker
That's not how it would have turned out, right?
00:50:15
Speaker
Again, it's like so hard to talk to these people who are like operating this fantasy world or they make decisions based on like essentially a fantasy and not based on like the way that the world actually is, right?
00:50:26
Speaker
It's hard to strategize with people like that or come up with strategies for them because they just don't think strategically.
00:50:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:32
Speaker
I mean, going forward to wrap up this episode, I think we just talked to Melissa Hobley last week about the fact that they had added the pro-choice sticker on OKCupid.
Partner Vetting & Reproductive Rights
00:50:44
Speaker
I think for those of us who are pro-choice, we reiterate our stance about being pro-choice when we go out to date.
00:50:51
Speaker
And as much as we can, like keeping abortion rights intact while vetting for men and that you're allowed to vet for men and you don't have to have some excuse while you're saying no.
00:51:01
Speaker
Abortion doesn't have to be illegal for you to say no to sex to men.
00:51:05
Speaker
Well, they think it's going to coerce other women and then like reign in the hookup culture is what they're scared of.
00:51:10
Speaker
But as far as like just the dating strategy, I think for those of us who are already in the know, like keep it on pussy on lockdown.
00:51:15
Speaker
Like if he doesn't support your right to choose, you choose not to give him your vagina, period.
00:51:19
Speaker
Keep that pussy on lockdown.
00:51:21
Speaker
God, even for men who are pro-choice, like you never know.
00:51:24
Speaker
They could come for your womb next, okay?
00:51:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:26
Speaker
You never know what could happen.
00:51:27
Speaker
The women in Ukraine who were surrogate mothers, you know, they didn't know that there would be a war that would like break out that would like completely ruin their lives.
00:51:34
Speaker
Like right now, you know, that you could be living in a blue state, you could be living in a blue state and you think things are fine now.
00:51:39
Speaker
You never know.
00:51:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:51:41
Speaker
Keep that pussy on lockdown until a man who can properly like provide for you.
00:51:46
Speaker
I hate that the like as much as I rail against conservative women, like I hate the fact that like the only solution of the best strategy, I guess, to, you know, abortion being banned is to be extremely strict about the men that you sleep with.
00:51:59
Speaker
That's what I hate about it.
00:52:00
Speaker
That that's what they're forcing women to do.
00:52:02
Speaker
But unfortunately, like that's just the world we live in now.
00:52:04
Speaker
And we have to work with that.
00:52:06
Speaker
Men will get more coercive.
00:52:08
Speaker
That's the messed up part about it.
00:52:10
Speaker
And it's also the problem with conservative culture thinking marriage is the ultimate goal, because let's say you can get married to a horrible man, right?
00:52:16
Speaker
Like horrible men do want to get married and they do get married.
00:52:19
Speaker
So these women who are counting on the increased motivation for men to commit, because first of all, abortion has been outlawed.
00:52:27
Speaker
First of all, there's no guarantee that men are going to feel more coerced to commit just because you have a child.
00:52:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:31
Speaker
So let's put that right out there right now.
00:52:33
Speaker
There is absolutely nothing that guarantees a man will stick around to raise the child that you choose to have.
00:52:39
Speaker
Right.
00:52:40
Speaker
So if you're counting on that ending hookup culture, it may or may not.
00:52:43
Speaker
All it might do is like create a lot more single mothers and it may not have any effect on like may not bring back this utopia.
00:52:49
Speaker
Y'all are thinking of that suddenly utopia never fucking existed, by the way.
00:52:53
Speaker
Yeah, like the woman stayed home with her kids while the men supported her and everything was great.
00:52:58
Speaker
It was never great, even for our grandmothers and our great grandmothers, okay?
00:53:01
Speaker
Yeah, some women, I mean, straight up, they used to have like 10, 11, 12 kids because, you know, they couldn't get birth control.
00:53:07
Speaker
Some of them died.
00:53:08
Speaker
Some of them like were literally raped and forced into having multiple children.
00:53:12
Speaker
You know, it was absolutely hell for women back then.
00:53:14
Speaker
And again, these stories aren't, I don't know why the stories aren't being front and center in everyone's mind when we talk about like the reality of what women went through before abortion was legal.
00:53:22
Speaker
So I think the conservative women who think marriage is going to protect them from hookup culture or shitty men
Marriage & Exploitation Myths
00:53:28
Speaker
are delusional.
00:53:28
Speaker
Y'all are delusional.
00:53:30
Speaker
That's all I have to say.
00:53:31
Speaker
super delusional about that one.
00:53:33
Speaker
Super, super delusional.
00:53:36
Speaker
Just really let that sink in.
00:53:39
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:53:39
Speaker
Sorry.
00:53:40
Speaker
It's like, I'm so angry.
00:53:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:53:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:42
Speaker
I think we're all just angry.
00:53:43
Speaker
And I know this has been kind of a rambly episode, but we didn't really have time to prep it.
00:53:47
Speaker
Thank you for listening to our stream of consciousness episode.
00:53:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:50
Speaker
Stream of consciousness episode.
00:53:52
Speaker
But let us know, let us know in the thread that's on the website to this episode, like what you think can be done.
00:53:57
Speaker
Obviously Lilith and I have presented
00:53:59
Speaker
counter arguments here about what can be done to realistically change the cultural conversation on abortion and eventually have that manifest into federal law to protect abortion rights for all women and all states in the United States of America.
00:54:13
Speaker
Let us like the cut and run and let them suffer for a couple of generations and figure it out the hard way.
00:54:18
Speaker
Maybe not a couple of generations.
00:54:19
Speaker
I'm thinking like five years of this and then they'll probably have enough.
00:54:22
Speaker
I don't know if you understand the stubbornness of the United States.
00:54:25
Speaker
I'm like, no, this is going to take decades to fix.
00:54:28
Speaker
Sure.
00:54:31
Speaker
I know Canadians would only suffer for five years.
00:54:33
Speaker
They will be in denial for a very long time when something's not working.
00:54:37
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:54:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:39
Speaker
I'm looking at this as like a decades long reversal, at least maybe 20 years of slow incremental pushback on the abortion restrictions.
00:54:47
Speaker
in the red states.
00:54:48
Speaker
So I'm more of the opinion that as much as we can with the people we can, we start to actually do it the old fashioned way, which is like change people's mentality, especially women who are otherwise politically different, present solutions that actually address the issues they're dealing with.
00:55:06
Speaker
Because I sometimes feel like the right and left both creates caricatures of each other.
00:55:10
Speaker
And I think that's by design is to keep people from talking.
00:55:12
Speaker
And honestly, it's not just about abortion rights.
00:55:14
Speaker
It's about labor rights.
00:55:15
Speaker
There's so many things in this country right now that are very important for the livelihood.
00:55:19
Speaker
People are being purposely led to separate themselves and there are wedge issues being driven by both parties to make sure that there's no consensus among the people who are going to suffer the most.
00:55:29
Speaker
And this is like...
00:55:30
Speaker
This is a strategy that's been implemented over and over again by the powers that be, by people who are elite in government to keep you from talking to other people who are maybe politically different from you, but creating consensus.
00:55:42
Speaker
I'm like, yes, I know a lot of people on the right are horrible, racist, and just their entire existence pisses you off.
00:55:49
Speaker
And I mean, it's like, I don't disagree.
00:55:51
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:55:53
Speaker
Like, I don't disagree with you.
00:55:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:55
Speaker
Let them suffer.
00:55:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:57
Speaker
So I want to be clear.
00:55:58
Speaker
I want to validate that feeling because
Engaging with Opposing Views
00:56:00
Speaker
I remember the fallout when we had Elan and a lot of people were feeling like these people want us dead.
00:56:04
Speaker
I don't necessarily think everyone wants you dead, but they are actually frustrating, angry and racist and selfish.
00:56:11
Speaker
They're just selfish and naive and stupid.
00:56:14
Speaker
That's really what it is.
00:56:15
Speaker
Like, oh, not all conservatives are motivated by malice, although some of them can definitely be malicious.
00:56:20
Speaker
A lot of them are just undereducated, inbred and fucking stupid.
00:56:24
Speaker
I'm just going to say.
00:56:25
Speaker
I'm not interested in outreach.
00:56:27
Speaker
I'm just like, fuck you people.
00:56:29
Speaker
I just think it's that the men of both parties set the agenda.
00:56:32
Speaker
They set the terms in which we're allowed to negotiate our rights.
00:56:34
Speaker
And a lot of women, because they've never been given an alternative narrative, don't even know that they're gambling their rights away.
00:56:40
Speaker
They
00:56:40
Speaker
They think they're making deals that are going to work out for them and they don't see the loopholes in all of the deals because they're kept in their political bubble.
00:56:46
Speaker
They don't see what could happen if they don't pay attention to the cultural fallout of the decisions they make and the deals they make with men that are not going to benefit them.
00:56:55
Speaker
And we talked about this on the left, obviously, with liberal feminism.
00:56:58
Speaker
And we talked about this on the right with traditional conservatism.
00:57:01
Speaker
They are in a bubble.
00:57:02
Speaker
They are making deals with men that are deals with the devil.
00:57:04
Speaker
And if you don't start to poke holes, even in sometimes like talk to people you hate that otherwise irritate the shit out of you.
00:57:11
Speaker
I think that the potential for good is worth it to the point where the individual I mean, obviously, everyone set their boundaries.
00:57:19
Speaker
But like each individual person who purports to believe in abortion rights should want to do that work in the capacity that you can, even if it's difficult.
00:57:28
Speaker
Like I said, I don't know that making a doing a drum circle in the bluest of blue cities and the bluest of blue states is going to do shit like for the women who are actually going to suffer the most.
00:57:37
Speaker
And I'm not saying, you know, it's a great way for people to connect and talk.
00:57:40
Speaker
But I'm like, the real work is the hard work.
00:57:42
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:57:43
Speaker
The real work is the unpleasant, shitty work, you know, and that means sometimes talking to shitty racist people.
00:57:47
Speaker
There's precedents for this, right?
00:57:49
Speaker
Like there's people, you know, there's like that very famous guy that converted a bunch of Ku Klux Klan members.
00:57:53
Speaker
Like there's people that have done that kind of work.
00:57:56
Speaker
He was a black police officer.
00:57:57
Speaker
I commend men and women who have that kind of patience.
00:58:00
Speaker
They're lovely people, I'm sure.
00:58:01
Speaker
Honestly, mad respect.
00:58:03
Speaker
Persuasion skills, 10 out of 10.
00:58:05
Speaker
I don't have the time, money, patience, or like, I don't know.
00:58:09
Speaker
Not faulting you for it, but I think I'm cautioning all the knee-jerk people that are like, fuck conservatives, fuck white women.
00:58:15
Speaker
Like, white women are this the problem, and this is like how we're voting against our own interests.
00:58:20
Speaker
Even talking to a conservative person is like abuse and child abuse and trauma.
00:58:24
Speaker
Yeah, okay, that's a little too far, yeah.
00:58:26
Speaker
Some people were saying that listening to that episode with Elle was traumatic.
00:58:30
Speaker
And I was like, okay, that's a little... Really?
00:58:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:58:34
Speaker
But I hope this episode doesn't traumatize too many people.
00:58:37
Speaker
We have to do the same work to dismantle a system of attitudes that you would do with anything as much of an existential threat as women's reproductive rights.
Securing Women's Reproductive Rights
00:58:47
Speaker
I know we're still dealing with the fallout of slavery and Jim Crow laws in the United States and the work is far from over.
00:58:54
Speaker
I'm looking at this like this has to be a long haul for women too.
00:58:57
Speaker
And we have to have the mentality that it's going to take little by little us talking to people and creating a narrative and showing people the benefits in the same way that we've talked about race.
00:59:08
Speaker
And it's not perfect.
00:59:09
Speaker
It's not perfect by any means.
00:59:11
Speaker
I'm not saying it's not going to be difficult.
00:59:12
Speaker
I'm not going to say there's, you know, we're always going to make gains and there's not going to be two steps forward and two steps back or one step back.
00:59:18
Speaker
But I'm cautioning people against staying in their bubble.
00:59:21
Speaker
I'm really, really, really afraid.
00:59:23
Speaker
I'm really afraid for the women in those states, as well as the children in those states, the fallout of this would be, and I know it's like, feels very satisfying to be like, ha, suffer.
00:59:32
Speaker
Those things tend not to stay contained in the way that they do.
00:59:35
Speaker
And I know there's been discussion about Clarence Thomas saying he wanted to re-examine the case that made gay marriage illegal in the United States.
00:59:41
Speaker
So if we don't launch an offensive to the people that matter the most to making these decisions, then there's no telling how much ground we'll lose.
00:59:49
Speaker
So it's a little bit scary.
00:59:51
Speaker
So
00:59:51
Speaker
that's our show.
00:59:52
Speaker
Thanks for listening to our episode and our rantings here.
00:59:56
Speaker
So let us know what you think on the website www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com or you can let us know what you think on the Patreon Discord, which you can sign up for on our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
01:00:08
Speaker
You can also submit a roast disc route, ask us a dating question, etc.
01:00:12
Speaker
Check us out on Twitter at femdatstrat as well as our Instagram at underscore the female dating strategy.
01:00:16
Speaker
This is a really tough episode.
01:00:18
Speaker
Thanks for listening, Queens.
01:00:20
Speaker
And for all you scrotes out there, enjoy the pussy drought.
01:00:22
Speaker
Bye, bish.
01:00:23
Speaker
See you next week.
01:00:25
Speaker
Die mad.
01:00:25
Speaker
Bye.