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Tucker Max on Being a Pup, Podcasting & Financial Insights for Content Creators
55 Plays9 months ago
SUMMARY
Welcome to another episode of Dirty Money with Bevin and Mike. Today, we are joined by Tucker Max, a content creator based in the Pacific Northwest. Tucker, host of the podcast "Digg’n for Bones," offers unique insights into the world of pup play and sex positivity within the LGBTQIA community.
We explore topics from Tucker's personal journey of self-discovery to deeper discussions on consent, community building, pup play, the business side of running events, and the challenges of navigating online platforms as a sex-positive advocate.
TOPICS
[1:55] - Introducing Tucker Max
[9:10] Exploring demi sexuality and pup play
[12:45] Exploring Pup Play
[25:05] The Business & Logistics
[41:15] The Journey to Podcasting
[50:55] Navigating Online Platforms and Censorship
[59:05] Final Thots & Treats
RESOURCES & LINKS
Connect with Tucker Max
Podcast: Digg'n for Bones
Website: www.diggnforbones.com
Other Resources Mentioned:
CONTACT INFO
Bevin Morgan:
Instagram: @bevinmorgan & @temple_eanna
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Dirty Money Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Dirty Money with Bevin. And Mike. A space to talk about financial topics for folks who don't fit into traditional financial spaces. We believe money is a tool for everyone. Our mission is to provide a literal microphone and platform for queer, BIPOC, polyamorous, and sex-positive individuals. No topic is off the table here.
00:00:31
Speaker
That being said, one tiny little housekeeping note. For those listening who may have others with sensitive ears, the listener discretion is advised because we do not censor ourselves. That's right. You've been warned, but enough from us. Let's get this episode started.
Who is Tucker Max?
00:00:54
Speaker
Welcome back to Dirty Money with Bevin. Hello. And Mike.
00:01:02
Speaker
Today, I'm going to be your host. Bevin is going to be the co-host here. And today, we have a very special guest who I think you all are going to really enjoy. I have actually never met this person in person, but we have connected through the internet, through friends, circles of friends. The queer world is tiny.
00:01:29
Speaker
Please give a warm welcome to Tucker Max. Hello, hello. Well, thank you for the intro. I haven't been introduced on a podcast before, so this feels like on the other end of that. So thank you for having me. Yeah. Can you give our listeners a little bit about yourself, where you live?
00:01:52
Speaker
who you are, what you identify as, whatever you want to share. Well, that would be the whole episode. My name is Tucker Max. I live in the Pacific Northwest. I am based out of Portland, Oregon.
00:02:10
Speaker
I am a content creator. I also host a podcast called Dig in for Bones, which is, I call it a pup-ish podcast because I am a pup. I am the current title holder for Oregon as state pet. And so pup play is something that's important to me, but I do it in my own way.
00:02:30
Speaker
and how I've learned about it was through interviewing people on my show and getting their advice but the show's kind of evolved into just a really awesome gay sex positive podcast where I interview other creators and my main goal is to humanize, I call it demisexual porn where like
00:02:49
Speaker
A lot of people like we know we know their content we've seen their twitters we've seen their instagrams but have you actually listen to them talk for an hour and that's kind of the goal of what i do on my show i also run some sex positive events here in portland i've done two so far called yes coach which are an athletic fetish theme party
00:03:11
Speaker
And I have another one coming up here on March 3rd called Hide, which is going to be a step back in time to the 1970s to the golden era of kink and leather in denim. Leave the hippie stuff. This isn't that party. This is like what you'd find on the streets of San Francisco at two o'clock in the morning. Kind of another. Can I swear? Yes, of course. Come fuck Tom Selleck is kind of my tagline. So I do that. I also.
00:03:41
Speaker
I'm involved a little bit with my leather community as a title holder. I'm trying to do some fundraising there. And then I'm working on a fundraiser right now.
00:03:49
Speaker
through my events to bring in some people who live in rural parts of the state so they can come to our really fun pride that we do here in Portland because the prides they do out there are cute. They're very made family friendly for the rural citizens of the towns they live in. I also just need to add a note. Cute was used in a derogatory way just then, just for anyone listening. It was not a compliment. It was not a compliment.
00:04:19
Speaker
if you didn't catch the conversation. It's important to me that people get to see like and eventually what I'd love to do is have like a travel scholarship to send people do like a raffle or something to send people to some more sex positive events that are outside of your city because I do think that's an important part of our community and our identity while it may not be for everybody and that's okay it is for some of us and that's also okay.
Creating Inclusive LGBTQ+ Spaces
00:04:44
Speaker
That is such a cool idea that I've never considered, this idea of, let me send you to San Francisco Pride because you need to just be in the atmosphere, or whatever it is. Go somewhere with a real scene so you can feel what it feels like and know that you are validated. I've never considered that as a thing, and I think that's so amazing and important. I love that.
00:05:08
Speaker
It is. It's super important. It was important for, so I've really only been in the scene about a year and a half now. I got divorced. I came out in the beginning of my relationship with my ex-husband. I mean, I was out. I met boys online and girls and did all that stuff kind of in secret. And some people knew, my roommate knew, but I wasn't out. I remember making the Facebook official post the three days after we had met each other.
00:05:32
Speaker
This was after 17 years, we met on Myspace, 17 years of talking a line, came up, did the romantic thing for a week, and I was out, I was in love, and then my whole real coming out journey happened while I was in a relationship. So when I got divorced, I had to go through all of those last couple of stages of coming out. What's this mean as me as a solo person in my own identity?
00:05:53
Speaker
I changed my name. I found a different version of myself and I found the commute and a lot of it happened from going to San Francisco, from going on the Lambs cruise and getting to see gay spaces. And then we have a gay scene here in Portland. I just wasn't really involved in it yet. But the smaller the city, the more those of us in the LGBTQ plus community have to kind of
00:06:15
Speaker
band together. And while I love having community spaces for all of us, we each have our own identity. We each have our own things that we relate to each other. And it is still equally as important to have a lesbian bar or a gay bar or people of color who are queer and want to congregate together. We all like and need that time to come together with the people who share the same life experiences as us.
00:06:38
Speaker
so that we know we're not alone. And when you're in small towns and you're in small areas of the country and stuff, we have to band together because there's just not enough people and it's capitalism. You got to keep the lights on and you can't have a lesbian bar if there's only two lesbians in the town. And it goes for gay bars and trans spaces. That being said, I love an inclusive space that everyone's welcome, my parties, everybody's welcome. And I think it's really magical when we all come together too.
00:07:08
Speaker
Yeah, I just, it's funny that you should say that I went to, there's an event here in DC that happens once a month that's called Flower Factory. And I had never been, I knew it was kind of a dance party. I went this past weekend and the just unapologetically queer, fluid, just,
00:07:37
Speaker
the uh like gender bendy fuckery that was going on it was just because in my mind I was thinking I was like I thought it was going to be like a like a circuit party you know like the what you think of when you think of like a dance a queer dance space right you kind of there's like a
00:07:57
Speaker
image that comes across, like everyone in harnesses, blah, blah, blah, right? A bunch of white gays, white men. And it was not that. And it was just my first experience in a space like that. And it was just so much fun. And it's really makes me feel good that there is something like that here in DC because I didn't even know it existed.
00:08:24
Speaker
I knew that that event existed. I didn't realize at what level that kind of queerness and just safe space for everybody of all identities and questioning. And I think it's a place for people to kind of explore who they are, which is really cool. I love that. Sounds really cool. I actually have
00:08:53
Speaker
two questions. Unfortunately they're like definition questions but you know not everybody knows these things. So I have heard of a demisexual, I have like done my googles and I still don't really get it so I would love more information about that.
00:09:10
Speaker
All right, my hands are raising its hands. And then obviously, I think there are a lot of folks who don't know what a pup is, and I would, you know, I think we can get into that too. Yeah. Do you mind if I take the first question? Go for it.
00:09:24
Speaker
As someone who identifies as demisexual, for me, the definition is someone that needs a connection in order to have some sort of
00:09:41
Speaker
physical connection, whether that be sexual, well, asexual connection with someone, there needs to be some sort of connection, whether that's emotional, physical, the whole like random hookup, I don't know you, we've never talked, I don't know how your mind works, nope, can't do that. So for me being demisexual, I have to have some sort of connection.
00:10:08
Speaker
with those that I partake in playtime with.
00:10:15
Speaker
And for me, it's like, I don't necessarily identify with any of it. Identities are funny. I always use this story of, you know, someone pulls a piece of paper out of their pocket and there's a word on it with an identity. And they're like, fuck all these labels. And they crumple it up and throw it on the ground. Just for another person to be walking along on the path, pick up that piece of paper and open it and say, oh my God, a word that finally describes me. This is everything.
00:10:42
Speaker
For me, since the days of MySpace gay, straight, bi, not sure, and now that list is forever long and you just scroll and scroll and scroll at all these identities, I have a really difficult time and every time I pick one, it doesn't stay that for more than a few months. So it's just kind of where I'm at in that moment is how I look at it.
00:11:03
Speaker
Demi for me is like, for me to have one-on-one intimacy and it not feel awkward, I need connection. And a lot of people need connection. It doesn't necessarily mean you're demisexual, like sex is connective. I can flip on either side of it, but boy is my intimacy like a billion times better if there's some kind of connection. It doesn't mean we have to go out and like a romantic dinner, but like,
00:11:26
Speaker
There was a gentleman I connected with on Atlantis and we were talking about attachment theory and relationship styles while we were inside of each other in bed. And it was like the hottest thing I've ever experienced in my life. So like that mental connection is just such a turn on for me. So yeah, I hope that it's, for me, it's just this moving thing that never, never stays. It's Plato. My sexuality is Plato.
00:11:55
Speaker
I love that. I think that's fair. And I think a lot of people probably relate to that. I love what you said too, though, about this idea for some of us just like, fuck these labels. Like, I don't know, like what I am today. I'll be something tomorrow. But you're right. Like some folks really do need to know that they are, you know, that they're seen, right? That there is somebody who said, this is who you are. And like, to be able to say, you know what, that is who I am. So and I think both of those are super valid.
00:12:37
Speaker
What is a pub? OK, so we'll go back in time a long time ago, at least what I can find in historical records. Pet play has been around for a long time. People for a long time have always been able to envision themselves as certain archetypes of animals. If they're a cat person, a dog person, a dragon, I'm a horse, I'm a pony, like whatever it be. A lot of times people can play. And when
00:12:42
Speaker
I think it comes back to attachment theory.
00:13:06
Speaker
especially when you look at like development and when we're pretending at certain phases of our lives, a lot of times we like to play certain animals. So like that playtime, if you've ever read the ethical set, one of my favorite lines in the book is just because you're an adult doesn't mean you have to stop playing. We just have the privilege of adding sex to our playtime nowadays.
00:13:26
Speaker
And so pet play is this fetish and kink where people kind of embody some kind of animal or mythical creature and make it part of their personality. For some people, they make it a full of their alter ego. To me, it is the ultimate RPG game.
00:13:44
Speaker
where Tucker came into play is I went out to a pet play and I actually had a pansexual sex club, not even in the queer space. And I'd already kind of been dabbling a little bit, came up with the name Tucker. I do a half muzzle. There's such a variety of the way people, it's almost like a fuck you to the old guard in some ways too, because even though it's got really deep roots in leather culture, I always say your pet play, your pups,
00:14:07
Speaker
They're kind of like a furry and a leather daddy got a little too fucked up one night and this is their love child who's a little bit rebellious to the whole system. For some they do love protocol and they develop these PAWS, Pets and Handlers associations around it with a lot of structure. For some there's like
00:14:27
Speaker
almost like drag and ballroom culture there's like house structures where they develop these like full
Understanding the Pup Play Community
00:14:33
Speaker
packs with instead of like a house mom it's alpha and the beta and they they run as a pack and some people love that for me I'm a stray I have a collar collars are really big in the pup world and not just pups a lot of bears and people just in the gay world too love collars but um they can be kind of a BDSM thing of like
00:14:52
Speaker
This is someone I who holds my key. After my divorce, I locked my own caller, and it became a real important piece of my heart to say like I am my best partner. I'm taking care of myself right now. So like there's some really deep stuff in it, and then others, there's
00:15:09
Speaker
There's this thing called a mosh, where people totally get in the pup, what we call pup headspace, where they get into their puppy playtime, put a bunch of wrestling mats out in the middle of the bar, and you basically took your dog to the dog park, and you can watch a bunch of men, women, and people, and cats, and whatever, playing around chewing on squeaky toys and depending on the bar. It could be erotic, and you know, for a lot of these people too, it's not always a sex thing, and it is evolving to not necessarily be a sex thing.
00:15:37
Speaker
My favorite part of pup play is there's like a camaraderie. There's this unspoken brotherhood that I find with people in different regions. I visit even in our own country. Pup play can be a little different city by city too. So people really come together. They may not always wear their gear, but they call each other pup. The language, it's so hot. Does puppy want a bone? Really gets me.
00:16:01
Speaker
Um, I love the art. It's just like furry porn. There's a bunch of pup furry porn too. It's great. And the stickers and just the communication is great. Um, and then we also have contests too. Uh, IPC and like leather title holders, things like that, pups have really made their way into pageantry too, which makes sense show pups. And so we've got alphas and betas and omegas and strays and show pups and service puppies and
00:16:30
Speaker
you know, dogs and wolves and the list goes on. And what my favorite thing in all of this is when I say that stuff, because at the end of the day, the alpha thing, we all know it's kind of bogus, but back to like those labels we were talking about.
00:16:44
Speaker
Words are what people use to connect with each other. We wouldn't need them if they only exist so that other people understand what it is we're trying to say. And sometimes in language, when we're missing the thing to invoke the feeling or the response or to communicate what other people need,
00:17:03
Speaker
To hear out of us, we use metaphors, we make up words or we use things that people already know. So when I say alpha or I say I'm a service pup or a show pup, people know what that means and I feel seen and I feel safe. And last, before the end of what is a pup pangent because it is just whatever you want it to be at the end of the day.
00:17:23
Speaker
There is, and it's well noticed that a lot of us are neurodivergent in some kind of way. Not everybody, but it is a pretty common thing you find in the pup community. Not every, again, not everybody. There's plenty of pups out there that just love putting on freaking pup gear and feeling sexy and going to a circuit party and dancing.
00:17:40
Speaker
The inanimateity is another thing I missed on. I recently gave a big celebrity his first puphood on Atlantis Cruise and he was telling me how he got to the audience for one of the circuit parties and no one knew it was him and he had a blast. And so there's just the list goes on. At the end of the day, there's probably stuff I didn't cover and there's probably stuff to still be discovered.
00:18:04
Speaker
I think that was a lot of good information. As I have stated in previous episodes, I consider myself pup adjacent with my partner being a pup, with my metamour being a pup, with their best friend being a pup. I am around a lot of pups. Also with this whole
00:18:33
Speaker
recent kind of more dating, been attracting a lot of pups. I don't, it's just one of those things. So I will- He's got meat in your pocket though, yeah. I guess so. You know, the Beggin' Strips, I don't know, you know? But I think one of the things that from my vantage point and my kind of
00:19:00
Speaker
what I have been kind of observing and one of the things that I really enjoy about the PUP community is the level of communication, the level of consent that often happens within the community, the structure that I know you said some people really thrive in that. I think that there's a general kind of outline. There are some just really
00:19:30
Speaker
incredible things that have been coming out of the pup community that I think a lot of people outside of the community could benefit from. One of those being I went to every once a month there's a bar here in DC that that hosts a pup event and I showed up
00:19:50
Speaker
And I know I've told this story before, but it's worth repeating. I showed up, paid the cover, the person at the bar is like, gave me a pamphlet and said, what color consent bracelet do you want? And it was just like,
00:20:06
Speaker
my mind was blown because I had never been to an event or a bar where that is like everyone who's there has some color. So you know, hey, I can touch you. Hey, I need to ask you or hey, I cannot touch you. And so just that level of respect for the individual that comes with the pup community, I find really just incredible. It's one of the,
00:20:35
Speaker
one of the many things that I've kind of learned through. And as you said, it may not be that case everywhere, but everything that I've experienced being adjacent to the community consent is huge. And I feel like even when, as you said, it comes back to that kind of like brotherhood, that shared understanding that if someone's kind of out of line, I feel like
00:21:01
Speaker
everyone else in the community has like a level of like, hey, like, that's not okay, or hey, like, self correct, you know, I think that there's just a level of consent that most people should strive for, whether you're in the community or not. And that's been one of my biggest things as an observer.
00:21:21
Speaker
What I love about bracelets, and I've seen that at bath houses and certain events, Atlantis does that with one of their parties with the dog tags. It's red is no thank you, yellow, orange is please ask, green is unavailable, and you can just guess what two greens means.
00:21:37
Speaker
And what I love about that is it's also really empathetic to understanding that like consent is taught different across generations, especially in the queer community and how we experienced it. And so what I love about the visual is some of us thrive in nonverbal, some of us don't understand nonverbal, somebody might be there for the first time and doesn't even know what the word queer means. Somebody could have come from a period in their life
00:22:01
Speaker
where they never got to practice consent because in the way we use it now, because if they would have done it back then, that could have got them killed. And so when you have your entire life's worth of experience and of learning that behavior a certain way, now it's not me saying that it's okay for people to not use consent. It's just understanding why people behave the way they do from where they come from. And I love the bracelets because
00:22:28
Speaker
You can still do the nonverbal thing, but if someone has a clear, no, thank you, glowing on their arm, people will approach them and you're not going to have that, oops, that you misinterpreted something that I meant to be a different way. Or you're just, oops, a mistake. Mistakes do happen. And that's probably my favorite thing about understanding consent too, is just
00:22:48
Speaker
And since we're on the topic is just like mistakes happen. It's what you do with them is what matters. But like trying to run a bar party or a sex party and not expecting there to be mistakes. It's pretty wishful thinking. It's just how do you how do you handle that?
Consent in BDSM and Pup Communities
00:23:10
Speaker
Do we do we feel like it is the pub community specifically that has done
00:23:18
Speaker
And such a great job with the communication and consent piece or because honestly, in my experience, it's like the kink community as like, yeah, it's, it's the BDSM community. And there is a little bit of a simulation happening between like the hetero pan and.
00:23:35
Speaker
they do things a little different in the gay community. Gay community does things a little different and you're starting to see different traits and different things starting to cross over from a, I just taught a whole group of straight swingers, well, whatever, who knows what their sexuality is, but non-gay swingers and cis people had no idea what doxy pep was. And so I just had that conversation, I'm like, how do you guys, how are you fucking each other every weekend? How do you not know what doxy pep is? And I know half your boys here are also on sniffies. So like, why are they not on prep? And they're going home to you.
00:24:05
Speaker
No judgment in your structure, but the gay community tends to be really, really ears to the ground when it comes to what tools we have to keep ourselves safe. That community, however, has a whole protocol and 50-page document on what's expected when you go to those kinds of events when it comes to consent and safety and things like that. It's very different from the gay community.
00:24:26
Speaker
And we're starting to see some of those things bleed over, which is great. This is what makes the world great. How do we protect our spaces that are exclusive, but also take those cool things from each of the different groups and bring them into everybody so that we can all be safe and party and make money? So I do want to circle back to
00:24:55
Speaker
At the beginning, you talked about you have a lot of things going on. And so I want to dive into some of those. Yeah. I also know that on top of all those things, you also have a day job. I do have a day job. So, you know, you've got you're juggling a lot. And I have a feeling that a lot of people that are in our community who
00:25:22
Speaker
also into some of the very similar things are probably in a very similar situation. And so I'd love to dive into, you know, especially like your
00:25:33
Speaker
the events that you host, like tell us more about those. How does that work? How do you, where do you even start? Like I don't, the idea of that, I mean, I understand the podcast thing because here we are, but in terms of the events, I'd love to hear, I'd love to dive more into that.
00:25:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think networking and being authentic is probably the most important part of all of it. There were moments where I felt like my pool was getting really shallow and not deep with people, but I started to feel ashamed because I was starting to really connect and network with a lot of people in different cities, and it's hard to keep track with everybody. And someone politely told me, are you just social climbing?
00:26:22
Speaker
Well, it's still a business. And I think that's the important thing to remember is what I tell people is it's the balance of fantasy and authenticity. And when you're running a business like this, so in the, in part of it, especially when you do a podcast, you are building fantasy and people are paying you for that and you're going to events and they want to, they want to, they're subscribing to that fantasy, but you also have to balance it with a certain level of authenticity because then if you're nothing like that,
00:26:50
Speaker
in reality, that's not going to be good for your business. And so to start with events and things like that, you really want to bring your heart and who you are to these events when you're networking and really try to try to see people as people and like really connect with them and show a genuine interest in their
00:27:08
Speaker
bar or another event or their title or what it is they do. And share your story. Have your elevator pitch ready. It is, again, I do go back. It is a business. There's nothing to be ashamed about that. And prepare yourself too for when you're getting started and you're starting to knock on doors or network and things like that. You're going to have these people
00:27:30
Speaker
And I'm not big, I'm not super famous or anything like that. But in the beginning, there is a lot of people, who the fuck is this guy? Who does this guy think he is? Who does this person think they are walking up to so-and-so or getting approached by so-and-so, and you can let that imposter syndrome just, whoa, if you let that take a hold of you, it will. I've let it happen a couple of times, but power through it. And how I did it is when I ran for my title, I had asked Brad and Tammy
00:28:00
Speaker
because their facility, that pansexual first pet club or pet night that I ever went to was at their sex-positive facility here in Portland called Sanctuary. And I asked them to sponsor my event. And when I was there, I had mentioned, I was like, I've always wanted to do an event. And I think it would be really cool to do a fundraiser and I have this idea. And I had actually pitched the leather one that I'm about to do first.
00:28:23
Speaker
And then I was like, but I also want to do like an athletic one. Cause like, Oh my God, you jump on any fetish website right now and look at anybody's Instagram and it's like singlets and harnesses and yes, coach throw me in. And when we look at the best vintage porn too, which is I'm a sucker for vintage. Um, daddy boy is big right now, but the one that, that, that does seem to age well, that never goes away is that fantasy of like,
00:28:49
Speaker
my team doing me in the showers and at the locker room and stuff like that. The locker room is such a place. I thought it would be really cool to do an athletic fetish party that wasn't in a bath house. Let's actually remove the locker room part from it because that adds an element that's just a different space. It's a really fancy place and they were down. We ran the first fundraiser and I was able to donate a grand back over to the people who hold my title.
00:29:16
Speaker
back into their organization and it was a huge hit and a couple women showed up. And yeah, and then I just kept really focused on inclusivity and the way that I market is all of their events, even though everybody's welcome.
00:29:31
Speaker
The G was being kind of left out, not on purpose, but like when you're doing LGBTQ plus safe places, it was like a lot of the women on the covers, on the posters, everybody's welcome. And when I'd go to these events, I was usually the only like homo flexible kind of guy in the room. Even on buy night, I would like talk to guys, they're like, oh, I'm here to support my girlfriend.
00:29:52
Speaker
Um, so the way that I marketed Yes Coach was to be like most of the ads and stuff were like male on male or men. Um, but I threw in some trans men and I threw in some trans women, um, into the marketing and I threw in some women and men, um, and there it's just, I, they leaned it heavily on like, cause we don't, we've never had a gay space in Portland where you're allowed to do this outside of the bath house. Or we do have like.
00:30:19
Speaker
Barracuda and those kinds of events where it's a it's not allowed and I'm doing the quote quotes You'd be breaking the rules if you did anything naughty Well, I wanted a place where like you're not breaking any rules and there's a bar and this is a club And it was a huge hit the second one. I I'll never forget
00:30:39
Speaker
Am I going on a tangent? You can reel me in. Nope, this is great. I'll never forget, because of the normal crowd that was in the sanctuary, there was a guy that walked in with two cheerleaders on his arms. And they looked a little shocked when they walked in. But they still came in.
00:30:55
Speaker
And they were sitting there and I saw them have a scene and then they went into the invite only room and They were having a scene together and they let they invited one of this Queer guy to go in and he just got to watch them with permission and I felt so excited I was like I did that
00:31:10
Speaker
Like, look at that magic, all these people experiencing things they've never experienced before. And then one of the girls got into the sling and got to enjoy herself. And at the end of the night, she comes up to me and she's like, Tucker, I just want you to know, this is the most fun I've ever had at sanctuary. She's like, you gays, you just don't skip a beat. You get right to it. And then I also had one of my gay friends come up to me and he was like, I was so nervous about women being
00:31:40
Speaker
And we do, a lot of us have like a reaction to that because how our safe places are sometimes abused by women who visit our places. But that was, it's not the case when she's in the sling having a party with the rest of us. Like she's there to participate. That's a completely different thing that's using the space the way it's intended to be used. And everybody had such a great time and a lot of the feedback that came in was really great.
00:32:08
Speaker
And that's how you get started. And you focus on that feedback. You ask people for feedback. You ask them what they love. Market, market, market. Really the marketing is what sets the vibe of the party. Because people come with a preconceived. You want people to come with a preconceived idea. Because in a themed party, the guests make the party. It's not you. You just have to make sure they arrive in the way and the headspace and all the things they need so that they can all share it with each other.
00:32:36
Speaker
Um, and that's where I'm at with that right now. That's, it really is just talking to people and networking and being authentic. That is so incredible. I love that story that you just, like you painted such a vivid picture and I was like, I low key want to go to this party. Like it sounds amazing. How, how often are you doing these?
00:33:00
Speaker
Well, after the first one, they said they would love to do it every other month. And I don't want to do Yes Coach every other month, because that one seems to be really popular. I don't want people to burn out on it. But so what the idea here is, so I got two Yes Coaches. It was Yes Coach, then Yes Coach MVP. The next one's Hyde, which is that 70s one I was telling you about.
00:33:27
Speaker
I won't be able to, I'm going to have to, I'm looking for a host. I'm going to hire a host because I won't be able to be at my first time. I won't be able to be there, which it feels like a good level to achieve too. We're like, now I have to hire someone to host. Um, so I don't know what that part I'm thinking, but I want to do little league, but with the political climate of everything right now, I think I'm going to avoid that title, but I might do yes, coach training day for may. And then we're going to do.
00:33:54
Speaker
You could do spring training. Spring training, thank you. Perfect. And it's me. Yeah, beautiful. Good job. Perfect, perfect. So yes, coach, spring training. And then yes, coach, all stars will be for pride. And then we're going to hide again. And then I'm going to do a primal masquerade because like the 70s one, I wanted a leather party, but leather party is very inclusive and it scares a lot of people away.
00:34:20
Speaker
for two reasons. One, I don't want to be around that behavior. And two, I want to respect that behavior and those people and I don't want to intrude on that. So by making it this open theme like that, it allows people to come experience something new. And so
00:34:32
Speaker
Primal masquerade if you put two and two together. I'm a pup I'm hoping to see some people maybe come out and Put on some beastie face masks and come play And then they'll probably be one more. Yes coach. I think in the schedule after that and back to yes coach all-stars so That's the plan Could you do so the yes coach
00:35:02
Speaker
I know you said you usually take the locker room out, but can you do like a themed like a like maybe one of those. We do have a dark room.
00:35:15
Speaker
And it got darker last time. It was great. And the space is getting better. The BDSM space with the cross thing in it. We had a bunch of black lights on last time. So there's like those areas of it, but it's a really fancy bar. And I also have the club downstairs that I'm trying to think of how to incorporate that into do a larger event where I could do both spaces. Because that one is not, unless you can't
00:35:40
Speaker
do certain things in that club because of the way that it's structured. But the sex club is just upstairs. You just have to go outside and up a different set of stairs. So I would love to do a double party with both of those. And I think downstairs, there's a lot of TV screens and the VIP booths and things like that. I do have some ideas of how to make that feel a little bit more like a locker room.
00:36:03
Speaker
I want to do some Gatorade cups behind the bar and I've got some ideas. One of the coolest things last time too is I got these inflatable soccer ball. It was a soccer ball, an inflatable football, an inflatable baseball, and they're huge. They come up to my hip and they're just floating around the sex club. She's like, it's also this.
00:36:26
Speaker
Well, it was just so funny to see like people getting it on and their friend just like chuck a giant sucker ball at their head while they're in the middle of their moment. Friendship is the best. That's funny. There's such a level of silly to all of it. That's like one of my favorite things. Well, and that's the thing I think people forget. It's called play for a reason. It's like that's the thing that I love about kink. I think more than anything is that it really does allow you to tap into
00:36:55
Speaker
fun, freedom, enjoyment in a way that being an adult who goes to work just doesn't let you. Another side of all of it too that I didn't mention, I probably should, is you still have to hire your entertainment too. You still have to hire your DJs. One of the first things I did too is there was a new DJ in town, not one of my friend DJs, his name is Trevor Pearson.
00:37:22
Speaker
I have no idea what I'm doing. I have no idea what you're worth. I don't know how pricing works. You could totally take advantage of me if you want. And he gave me a sweet deal on deejaying the party. And then another friend of mine, Orso, jumped on and was like, I'd love to be a part of this. I don't know what you want to pay me, but I just want to be a part of it, which has worked because if one of them deejaying for six hours probably would have been a lot. And now I have it structured for three deejays. They each play for two hours and they get four hours of play.
00:37:50
Speaker
And they have a great time. Everybody has a great time, but they need paid too. So you got to remember to factor budget, all of that.
00:37:59
Speaker
and then your nonprofit stuff, and if you're doing a fundraiser. I also have affiliates. So I'm affiliated with Mr. S. Leather, and I make a commission, often when people sell their, use my links. So I usually leave like QR codes out at the party, or like try to get people, like I'll start posting about gear that's related, like this would look great at Yes Coach, or this would look great at Hyde. Click here to buy it kind of stuff.
00:38:27
Speaker
Well, I did want to ask you about that. Like how, what are the business parts of this
Event Hosting: Financial and Business Insights
00:38:37
Speaker
whole thing? Like how much money is floating around? I'm curious. Uh, there's a couple thousand gross, um, and more and growing. Cause we, we were into that. We were able to do like, uh, as people left, people could come in. Um, but then like.
00:38:55
Speaker
After donating a lot of it, there's not a lot left over for me, which is fine. I don't really make a ton at this time anyway because of my leather title.
00:39:07
Speaker
I want to be able to give back to a certain extent, but the goal is pretty soon here. I'm going to start making some good money. What I really focus on is that affiliate stuff and sponsorships. I just interviewed the owner of Leather Daddy Skin Care on my last episode, and they are going to sponsor the mustache contest at Hyde.
00:39:32
Speaker
men's, I don't know what he's sending me, but there's a gift basket. So he makes like cage cream for locked boys and booty creams and face creams and good skincare products. So we'll see, we'll see what I get sent, what the stuff's going to be. But I really focus on right now because that, so far I've made a couple of hundred bucks with Mr. S leather with people using links. It's not a lot, it's all side gig stuff. So, but you know, it's better than nothing.
00:39:57
Speaker
And a little bit of this, a little bit of that. And as it grows and you water the garden, it gets bigger and bigger. And then Uncle Sam sticks out his hand and says, pay me. And you're like, wait, I thought you were about this. Now you want me to pay you?
00:40:08
Speaker
You told me you didn't want me to do it, but now you're interested? What's going on? Yeah, that's the part where I'm like, because it's W4, I think is the work when I do the events. So the venue takes 30%, and then if I remember, they take a certain percentage of it, and then they take a certain percentage of alcohol sales after a certain amount is sold.
00:40:34
Speaker
And then or I get to keep a certain percentage of alcohol sales after I hit a certain threshold. And that's just private. I have to keep that part private. But it's a good deal. They're great people. They're wonderful people. And I'm hoping I'm making them a lot of money, too. So in the so we covered the business.
00:41:04
Speaker
We covered the... One of the businesses. True. True. True. I do want to dive a little bit into your podcast. I know you touched on it briefly. Would love to just hear about origins, about where you're at now and where you would like to see your...
00:41:33
Speaker
here, at least I'm assuming it's a passion project because it's very much a passion project for us, this whole podcasting gig. So I'd love to just hear kind of origins where you're at now and where you see your podcast going. Yeah. Or hope to see you go.
00:41:52
Speaker
So like I said, it started as a like, I want to learn from other people. And I got on with my, I was very fortunate. My first guest was support pup Cooper and Cooper is a PhD sexologist who happens to be a pup and offers a lot of like pup group therapy and where people get to come as pups and do pup stuff. And he's actually a like therapist. And so, um, and he organizes a lot of great stuff in the community and was just a real idol of mine. So.
00:42:20
Speaker
Him being my first guest like really launched things. How I started is I did Instagram live and I stood here under this very ring light and did a live Instagram and then I downloaded the file from a shady website that took videos off of Instagram and then I converted it into an mp3 and then I uploaded it onto a podcast and that was how it got started and it was terrible and the audio quality was garbo.
00:42:46
Speaker
And then I had some guests and back then I would take anybody as a guest. And I love all my first guests. I mean, that's part of getting started. You don't have reputation yet. So you do, you just interview people who are willing to be on your passion project. Then I got Luca Hunter, who is like one of the main models for like Nasty Pig. He is an incredible dancer, really, really sweet guy. And I got to have a really spicy interview with him. He bought me a hat that I love.
00:43:14
Speaker
And we just had this really great moment and it really kind of legitimized like, wow, like I'm starting to get some pretty serious players on the show. And then I took a break and it was like, I need to pause. I think I hit like 12 episodes. And I know consistency is key, but I wanted to pause, retool and come back better.
00:43:38
Speaker
which I did, I found podcasting software, I got a microphone, and oh, Gabe Woods was the season finale who I met on the Atlantis cruise, which he's a huge porn star out of Australia.
00:43:52
Speaker
And then this year has just been wonderful. I got a website. I started legitimizing everything, upgraded to quality. The guests got better. I got scheduling software, which changed everything because that was the other hard part was like, do you want to do a podcast? Yeah, I'd love to. When works well for you. I don't know when works well for you. And here we go. And now it's been like five months and we still have a fucking date. So now I'm like, here's a link.
00:44:16
Speaker
pick a date and I will make it work like hair salon software but to let's just chat and that also made things better and yeah and now I'm up to like almost 5,000 plays
00:44:32
Speaker
Each episode averages about 150 to 200. Sometimes there's some of them are in the three and four hundreds, which is just great to me. That's so much like you, you spend a minute on Instagram and I know people, they only have to listen for like five minutes for the staff or something.
00:44:47
Speaker
But to me, you listen to an hour of me yammering probably on the way to work or something. It's been great. I see it more as evolving. Lux is going to hate me for this, but I got called out once comparing it to Hot Ones because Tucker
00:45:04
Speaker
You don't have hot wings. There's nothing like hot wings. You're not interviewing people eating spicy chicken wings. But I'm like, I kind of take that element of that style of interview. And like that show, people can pick the purse. Like there is a chronological story of my development happening in the podcast. But also like, I can't think the idea is like, Oh, I recognize these three people and I want to go listen to their interview is really the idea that I have with it.
00:45:28
Speaker
And it's been wonderful. I would love to see it grow. It's the long-term investment someday. These tits will sag, my ass will sag, and I will be back to being the guy behind the camera, like the path that most of us take. Who knows? All bodies are beautiful, and maybe I'll still have the confidence then, I hope, to be in front of a camera.
00:45:48
Speaker
the voice the voice doesn't change and this is stuff that I think is important to archive and keep in queer history. Not saying I deserve to be part of queer history but like I'm recording people who are making who are
00:46:03
Speaker
important figures in the community at this point in time. So who knows what the value of that will be 20, 30 years from now. And that's kind of why I do it. It's cool. I want something to be able to look back on and be like, isn't this neat? And when I'm done someday, I'll be done. That was the other thing is I'm not
00:46:23
Speaker
I'm not gonna keep pushing it out to the point I don't wanna do it anymore. I take breaks, that's the other thing. The only dark side of any of it that I will say that kind of sucks sometimes is I love meeting people. I have impostor syndrome and I'm not that famous and when I go out to events and stuff, I'm also insecure and feeling shy and it's great when people come up to you. It feels so good and they recognize you and they know who you are and they feel great. What's not great though is
00:46:50
Speaker
because it's a podcast, they do know you. They have listened to hours and hours and hours of being inside of your head and listening to you. So they come up with a really good preconceived idea of who you are and you have no idea who this person is. It's so funny that you say that because I feel
00:47:13
Speaker
There's a lot of, I know I'm not going to speak for you, Bevin, but a lot of what you just said I very much resonate with, with just kind of how
00:47:25
Speaker
her and I started this one and what we've been getting out of it. And we were fortunate enough where we were hosts for pretty good while on our old works podcast. But it was a company led podcast. So there was just things that we couldn't talk about because
00:47:48
Speaker
There's an image of a brand and that sort of stuff. And so, you know, I felt that we had learned a lot and kind of was going into this feeling like we knew a lot, but we have learned so much outside of that. Cause like, yeah, I was like very much like, no, I don't want to have to keep week after week after week after week after week. Like we're going to do seasons. Like we're going to take breaks. Like we're going to.
00:48:15
Speaker
you know, this is our goal. Like we're gonna, and you know, we're just gonna try and chat with some really fucking cool people and you know, give them the platform to talk about something dirty and money. Like that's just the, that's the goal, right? And we have some, we have just met some incredible humans. That is the thing I love about
00:48:43
Speaker
Um, this, this podcast for most of it so far, um, you know, we are on our second season, but we already have people reaching out to record for season three, which feels really fucking good. Congratulations. Thank you. Um, you know, we're starting to get that traction of like, Oh,
00:49:05
Speaker
This is, you know, we've had some really kind of high profile, higher profile people on our podcast and when they collaborate on Instagram and our posts and then their guests see our posts and they're like, what's this? Let's check this out. You know, it's just a really cool kind of experience. And I feel that, you know, so a lot of what you said I do resonate with and it has been a,
00:49:34
Speaker
really fun experience so far for me anyway. Congratulations, that's great. One of the big tech companies I worked for in one period of my life, in leadership training, they always said by the time you're tired of talking is usually when people are just starting to hear.
00:49:55
Speaker
Once you were exhausted from getting the word out is usually when people just start tuning there. Cause that's, that's, as soon as you hit that tired moment, that, that first tired moment, like obviously it's important to take breaks and stuff. But when you hit that first, like, I don't know if I'm getting traction. I feel like it's burning out. People are making fun of me. I feel like people don't respect me. And those voices start to, that's when to dump all the coal on the fire.
00:50:25
Speaker
put it all in and then if you burn out and it's still not making traction after that, you're out of coal, so it's good. Or you're like, now we can take a break and I'm going to leave you wanting more. Perfect plan. Before we're at like 50 minutes, you know, we're going to talk about what we want to talk about, but I did want to make sure that we had a chance to talk a little bit about your content creation because you just mentioned, you mentioned, you know, the boobs sag and the ass sag and you're like,
00:50:54
Speaker
not going to necessarily be in front of the camera forever.
Tucker Max's Content Creation Journey
00:50:56
Speaker
But I would like to know what are you doing in front of the camera right now? What does that look like? Yeah. What isn't he doing in front of the camera? I don't do a lot. I realized that today, I realized there's not a single bottoming video of me on my OnlyFans, which I'm like, for someone who bottoms most of the time. I don't know why, it just hasn't happened.
00:51:15
Speaker
coming soon. Yeah, it's actually the small potatoes of the bunch, but it is something, I do it because
00:51:26
Speaker
I feel like you should have the right to do whatever the fuck you want with your body if it doesn't affect anybody else harmfully. And it's my body and I'm pretty sex positive. And I feel like the nudity stuff and the sexual stuff, it really reels people in and then they find the passion projects, like my Instagram. I love making the funny goofy videos, honestly, more than I like making porn. And I like
00:51:53
Speaker
If you really want to see my dick and pay me for it, why not? I'm not going to stop you. And I also really like, I don't go like Colby and Sam down in Australia. They do these heavy production type content creation and their fans love it and they make a ton of money off of it. And he just won daddy of the year or something with Pornhub.
00:52:17
Speaker
I just like like you know people make kind of artsy funny instagram stories with music and it's cut up and it's just like 30 seconds or two minutes that's my jerk-off videos like I try to make them creative and fun and like you're not going to spend more than a couple minutes on my page anyway I also watch porn I know how people watch porn um I need to know pretty much I just need to know why you're fucking and then I'm going to skip to the fucking so if one of those two things isn't there uh it doesn't work for me but like
00:52:47
Speaker
There's a piece of my demi-mind. I need to know the plot of a porno. There's a fun little story with all that about the videos.
00:52:58
Speaker
in early in our conversing, I had sent a few photos to Tucker of like, I don't know which one I wanna post on Instagram. And then two minutes later, I get a small video with music and editing. And it's all of the photos in a little video. And I'm just like, oh, okay. Do them all. In that case.
00:53:27
Speaker
great. They all looked great. You're like, and arts done. I did it. I choose all of you. I was like, I feel like I should pay you like that was so cool. I just I was like, I'm fully not expecting that.
00:53:45
Speaker
It was just a fun little memory. It took me two minutes. It's AI, the AI editing tools. And I will make the case when AI is used properly and ethically, I'm sorry, but I don't have access to big porn studios or the troll farms that these women hire. And not shaming, I shouldn't say troll farms, but there are businesses out there
00:54:08
Speaker
and you go into this apartment and there's like all these guys in hoodies and exactly the same types of people you thought that you think of who started Facebook. You know what they're doing? They are helping make these women a lot of money and they're pushing their content out for them and they're doing mass marketing for them and they take a cut of it.
00:54:29
Speaker
And as a gay man, I don't have access to that kind of stuff. And so AI helps me simplify a lot of this stuff and make it so that I can participate too.
00:54:39
Speaker
Well, and it's funny you should bring that up because it was literally brought up, if anyone watches Drag Race, RuPaul's Drag Race, season 16, one of the contestants, she used to be a shadow content creator for OnlyFans people. So she was reaching out to the people that are DMing these OnlyFans models and pretending to be the women, but there it was a gay man who also just dragged.
00:55:09
Speaker
So I actually just applied for one of those jobs and had an interview like a couple of weeks ago. They didn't give back to me when I'm very offended by it. I'm going to assume it's because I'm highly overqualified for the job, but just a quick little. It's the MBA. No big deal. But just like a quick aside, it was wild because they took me through the like payment structure for how they pay these people.
00:55:38
Speaker
And they were like, well, you know, you're a native English speaker, so you would make a little bit more, but usually our applicants come from Africa and India. We don't really get a lot of people who apply from the US because we're paying you like a 2% commission on what these women make. So their big thing is like, Oh, if you do a great job, you can make an extra like $2,000 a month. That's $24,000 a year. Oh my God. You know, I'm just like.
00:56:07
Speaker
I can't afford to eat if that's how much money I'm making, you know? Yeah. That's, and that actually brings me, this is an hour long episode, right? As long as we want it to be. That outsourcing brings up another valid point.
Challenges with Content Moderation
00:56:22
Speaker
And one of the obstacles I face in making content is meta. And they have outsourced a lot of their content moderators just in the same way those people are promoting people. It's on the other end.
00:56:36
Speaker
And I get it. I actually don't see it. We like to think of these decisions as black and white, and metas out there censoring queer people because they hate queer people and they're bad, or they're censoring black voices because they hate black people and they're bad, or they're censoring the Palestine stuff or Jewish stuff. It's not necessarily that black and white. What it is is content moderation is an awful job.
00:57:05
Speaker
And these people are exposed to really graphic, awful things, not just a boy's booty hole. They're getting exposed to some stuff that's terrible. And then also get exposed to your shirtless picture that you took in a mirror where your bulge is showing a little bit.
00:57:19
Speaker
And so the labor to expose someone like to that kind of stuff here in the US is a little complicated and not okay and requires a lot of payment to rightfully so to expose people that so they outsourced it and a lot of it was from this is not
00:57:38
Speaker
You can connect the dots. There's no case in this. I don't want to say, I figured it out meta. But obviously, it is no secret. They outsourced a lot of their moderation to countries where homosexuality is illegal. And these are the people also doing the moderation. So when you're wondering why it feels like women on Instagram and stuff are able to do a little bit more and get away with a lot more, women in sexuality and the way they are viewed in media and stuff,
00:58:06
Speaker
across the world everywhere is a little more forgiving than a gay male. And so we face obstacles all the time. And that's probably one of the biggest obstacles I face right now is being wrongfully censored. And what's happened is meta started pulling out of these places. And they, which is good, and they want to use AI moderation.
00:58:31
Speaker
But what I've always, and I started to campaign recently on it, I really want to know how was that AI trained? Were you going off of the decisions from the people who you outsourced that in? Did you farm those people for their behaviors to train this auto AI moderator? And is that why my picture of me and literally suspenders without my nipples even showing was taken down for sexual content?
00:58:56
Speaker
And then there's no appeals process and things like that. And that's probably the riskiest part of my business. My day job, I'm ready to face that if something were to come up. You don't do this without being ready to have a conversation like that.
00:59:10
Speaker
It would suck, but I could find another job. I don't want to, but I'm ready to have that conversation and defend myself. I have no control over meta, oops, shutting down my account because a robot said, and then you could wait to appeal it, or they take content down, and those appeals take weeks, months, a year.
00:59:33
Speaker
Or they do this weird purgatory thing where they do this, your page cannot be recommended to anybody except the people that already follow you. You are unsearchable, unfindable. Unless you remove this thing that might be against our rules. And they have cleverly crafted a new form of censorship where they're like getting you to self-censor content that might be against the rules to protect themselves from saying that they're removing your content.
01:00:02
Speaker
but they put you in purgatory until you're forced to do it. You can appeal it, and then you don't make any money. You can't make any new followers. You're a REIT. That's like saying...
01:00:13
Speaker
I don't know, it's like opening a coffee shop down the street. And then one day being like, you can only come in if you've been here before or the next month. No new business. No new business for an entire month. And that affects us. That affects our mental health. And like I said, I do balance a lot of authenticity into my work. It's art to me. I put a lot of creativity into it. And to just post something and like be so fearful that meta could shut down my entire source of, like one of my biggest sources of revenue
01:00:42
Speaker
in seconds if they wanted to. It's a lot. And they're up against a lot too. There's the Congressional Hearing, the Child Safety Protection Act or whatever, CONA I think is what it's called. There's all this stuff that's like masked with this front that is against sex workers that is like
01:01:02
Speaker
We're for protecting children. No, you're not. You're using that as a cover to push your beliefs and morals and values into law. And so a lot of the internet sensor stuff, well, has good intentions in some ways. We should be protecting children on the internet. No doubt about that. The looseness that a lot of these things are being written with
01:01:23
Speaker
leave the LGBT community and sex work community just wide open to be taken out. And we need to rewrite those and put language in the, like, I'm okay with the laws, but they need to be written in a way that doesn't harm vulnerable communities. Well, so what do you think about this idea of platforms that are created by sex workers or, you know, things specific for like sex work and like, you know, adult content?
01:01:54
Speaker
Um, this is the problem with meta. People always say like, we'll just jump on blue sky. I just had, this is not normal and not in a boasting way. Like my normal likes was like, after I made this campaign and I won a bunch of appeals, my account was taken out of purgatory for the first time in months. And one of my photos just got up to like 10,000 views or 10,000 likes. And that's never happened before. And coincidentally it happened as soon as all of my stuff was lifted. Um.
01:02:23
Speaker
I can't get that kind of exposure on other platforms. And we've created this. When they say it's against community standards, I'm part of that community. Where are you getting these standards? And I understand that not everybody in the world shares the same cultural beliefs and stuff. To me, I'm like, you've already siloed us and put us in echo chambers to begin with. Don't show the person with
01:02:50
Speaker
following a bunch of Christian pages, my gay account that's 18 up. Like you have technology to do that. So you bring up such a good point. And I think I've said this, I've argued this before. I don't understand if I have, why is there a close friends option specifically on Instagram? If I still can't post things that I want to post on it.
01:03:16
Speaker
Why am I still getting moderated for a private channel that consenting adults have said that they want to be on or like make it in a way that like the people have to request to be on it and then you like if that's the case like what's the point of it if I can't
01:03:39
Speaker
do what you're still going to moderate me the same way as my public stuff. It's probably like AI because close friends has actually been a little bit more. You've been able to get away with a little bit more. It was always like I got reported by someone on here. So like, if you don't want to be on my close friends, let's get off.
01:03:57
Speaker
But if that's happened to you, I would almost certainly suspect that that's part of the new AI. For sure. I've posted two different photos that are very similar. One difference, the one that got flagged is my hand was actually on my body.
01:04:22
Speaker
It wasn't super sexual, but there was still a hand on my body where the one without the hand on the body did not get flagged. They did just send me, so I just read in there because I try to follow. I actually don't just whine about it. I really do try to read their rules and stay within their terms. They are also a business and I respect that.
01:04:44
Speaker
And I was reading, they actually gave examples on this last rules page that I read about being sexually suggestive for an ad. Because I tried to boost one of my pictures, my most recent one, where I just show on the top of my jockstrap, and it's like pulled down a little bit, and it was a little sexually suggestive. And they showed some pictures of like, this kind of portrait is okay. These seven portraits, as you can see, are sexually suggestive. And they were of women and men, which I appreciated them doing that.
01:05:14
Speaker
And that actually made me go, okay, for a paid ad, I see your point. Can you please do the rest of your platform like this, please? Like, I understand why you did what you did and I know how to play within your rules when you do it that way. Unfortunately, not all a mess like that. And a lot of this is really ambiguous because they're trying to protect themselves and not scare away chunks of community and things like that.
01:05:40
Speaker
I mean, I feel like the bigger question really is why are we as a society so afraid of sex and sexual suggestiveness?
Societal Shame and Sexual Expression
01:05:50
Speaker
It is the thing that got us all here, presumably. And it's something that, at least for me, is a simple pleasure. And if done responsibly, it can be a safe and fun way to enjoy an evening. And depending on someone's upbringing and who they are and the experiences they've had in life,
01:06:08
Speaker
the things that are okay for you and me could be deeply traumatizing for them. And so while I think that new experiences and dealing with those uncomfortable situations could really lead people to a lot of awesome growth, private businesses don't want to be responsible for creating that situation onto someone, one of their customers or the customers or the people who are paying them to advertise on their platform. And so they're trying to strike a delicate balance of, cause like,
01:06:39
Speaker
There are people working for these companies. They're inside there too, and they're trying. And it is a David and Goliath kind of thing. I've talked to people who are on the inside, and they're like, we bring this stuff up all the time. We try. And they do listen and nod their head. And it's complicated. I empathize with meta on some level. You got the whole fucking world to deal with. And all of those cultures and perceptions of what's right and wrong are,
01:07:07
Speaker
in centuries worth of bigoted behavior and racism and also trying to make your algorithm not feed because they're aware of it now they don't because the things that make us uncomfortable tend to go viral faster and so they're trying really hard to not let that take over the platform like it did four years ago
01:07:29
Speaker
because that can cause problems too. But that also hurts activism. When people want to use it for activism, their stuff is pushed lower on the algorithm because the language models are reading that text and are able to identify that that's a negative connotation or that's an angry tone. Someone can see so much of that per day before they log off and then they lose money.
01:07:57
Speaker
And so they have to set this up in a way now to balance all of that out. And it's probably really difficult. Well, when you put it that way, Tucker. I think, I think, I think, Bevin, you still, I think your point kind of still stands in terms of like, yeah, I mean,
01:08:23
Speaker
Tucker, you just gave reality to it. But I think that, you know, as we work as a society to change kind of just the baseline of what is okay, what isn't okay, as we move to a more, I would say, hopeful sex positive future, that that becomes less of a hurdle for some with situations like this, because if the
01:08:54
Speaker
Yeah, because the root of the problem is not necessarily meta right the right of the problem. And what content creators on social media platforms are dealing with is just decades, you know, centuries of of we as a society.
01:09:13
Speaker
feeling shame about sex, right? Like that really would, if you want to like put it in a sentence, for some reason we are shameful of sex as a society. Yet it is something that we all enjoy. It is something that we need to continue to have as a society to exist, but yet we can't talk about it. And we can't express ourselves because that is dirty.
01:09:38
Speaker
So I think, you know, it's it's we obviously can't answer that question here. But what we can do is continue to talk about it. Yes, it's just, I think, talking, talking, talking, lots of talking. Yeah. But that's why we're here. Yeah. So that being said, I do want to respect our listeners time. I do want to respect Tucker's time. I really appreciate you.
01:10:05
Speaker
Being here, sharing your story, sharing your journey. This has been a delightful conversation. Before we sign off, is there any parting wisdom nuggets, begging strips that you want to leave for our listeners? Yes. Two, one.
01:10:29
Speaker
Every time that happens on your meta platforms, appeal it. If you get censored in any way, do the appeal. It's worth it. Write the appeals process. If you're not a good writer, have chat GPT write up what you wrote and make it better. Then the other thing I would say is we talked a little bit about like, we don't want people to feel shame about sex. And the best advice I would give on that is just remembering the difference between sexuality and sexual behavior. And
01:10:54
Speaker
When we're talking about the ways we interact in society, your sexual behavior requires consent from the people that are around you. And that involves listening to it, talking about it, the details of it, being exposed to it, seeing it, hearing it. And it's something we have to balance as creators all the time because it becomes such a huge part of our life. And that requires consent. Your sexuality, take that everywhere you go, if that's what you want to do. And if it makes people uncomfortable, that's their problem.
01:11:20
Speaker
And so, but your sexual behavior, that's not, when we talk about a sex positive world and people being okay with what other people do and the sexual behaviors that they do, it doesn't come with like forcing that on people against their consent. And I think sometimes we muddy the water when it comes to the way we talk about it or show people what we're doing online and stuff like that too. Thank you for that. I appreciate your global consent focused
01:11:50
Speaker
view.
Where to Find Tucker Max's Work
01:11:51
Speaker
I feel like we need to hear more often, so thank you for that.
01:11:56
Speaker
Thank you for having me. Of course. And we're going to put all this stuff in the show notes too, but just for our listeners that are maybe auditory rather than visual, where can they find you? Yeah, the best place, the hub is diggingforbones.com. It's D-I-G-G-N-F-O-R bones, B-O-N-E-S dot com. That's kind of the central hub, which will get you to all the things, the fan pages, the Instagrams, the
01:12:23
Speaker
tickets to, if you're in the Pacific Northwest, I want to come to a really fun party, as well as my affiliate links where you can go shopping. Love that. And for my listeners that also follow me on social media, if you happen to see stories where I'm in Portland, Oregon, mind your business.
01:12:45
Speaker
Oh no, I will be very clear about why I'm there. Anything else, Bevin, before we sign off? I think we talked about all of the things, and I loved it. We did. Yes. Great. Well, thank you all for listening. Until next time, see you later. Bye. Bye.
01:13:16
Speaker
If you've enjoyed today's episode, please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe. That's the easiest way to support our show. We hope you took away a new nugget of information or perspective today, and we're grateful you took the time to listen to us. Until next time, bye. Bye.