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Inclusive Health for All Bodies And Breaking Free from Diet Culture with Dr. Lisa
35 Plays9 months ago
SUMMARY
Welcome to another episode of Dirty Money with Bevin and Mike! Today, Bevin and Mike sit down with Dr. Lisa, a physical therapist advocating for inclusive health practices. This conversation dives deep into the challenges of fatphobia, weight stigma, and the harmful impact of societal norms on personal well-being.
Dr. Lisa shares her expertise on trauma-informed care, empowering listeners to embrace self-compassion, challenge toxic diet culture, and prioritize holistic wellness. We’ll discuss the many parallels between working towards physical health and financial health. This episode is full of insights, personal anecdotes, and actionable steps toward reclaiming health and happiness for all bodies.
TOPICS
[1:32] Introduction to Dr. Lisa
[3:28] Challenges with Fat Phobia and Weight Stigma
[9:15] Empowerment through Advocacy
[15:10] Healing Relationships with Money and Health
[23:15] Individualized Approach to Coaching
[32:55] Rooting Goals in Values and Purpose
[43:55] Living a Soft Life Under Capitalism
[53:10] Actionable Steps Towards Wellness
RESOURCES & LINKS
Connect with Dr. Lisa
Instagram: @healthyphit
Website: www.healthyphit.com
Journal: Body Respect Journal
Other Resources Mentioned:
- Money Magic: Practical Wisdom and Empowering Rituals to Heal Your Finances Jessie Susannah Karnatz
- The Nap Ministry (@thenapministry)
CONTACT INFO
Bevin Morgan:
Instagram: @bevinmorgan & @temple_eanna
Website: www.templeeanna.com & BevinMorgan.com
Mike Poulin:
Instagram: @mjpou56
Dirty Money Podcast:
Instagram: @dirtymoney_podcast
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Dirty Money'
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Dirty Money with Bevin. And Mike. A space to talk about financial topics for folks who don't fit into traditional financial spaces. We believe money is a tool for everyone. Our mission is to provide a literal microphone and platform for queer, BIPOC, polyamorous, and sex-positive individuals. No topic is off the table here.
00:00:31
Speaker
That being said, one tiny little housekeeping note. For those listening who may have others with sensitive ears, the listener discretion is advised because we do not censor ourselves. That's right. You've been warned, but enough from us. Let's get this episode started.
Guest Introduction: Dr. Lisa Bolden
00:00:53
Speaker
Welcome to Dirty Money with Bevin and Mike. I am Bevin. Hello. And of course we've got Mike.
00:01:01
Speaker
And with us today is Dr. Lisa Bolden. Hi, Dr. Lisa. How are you? I'm great. Hello. How are y'all doing? Doing all right. Doing all right. We have already established that today is a giant cup of coffee day, but that's all right. Yes. We're hanging in there. We're making it work.
00:01:24
Speaker
Well, once again, welcome
Therapy Practice & Philosophy
00:01:26
Speaker
Dr. Lisa to get things started. Will you please just tell us, what do you do? What brings you here today?
00:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, so I am a physical therapist. That's the really, really short answer. But the cool thing about what I do is I run and operate a private practice in Charlotte, North Carolina. And my practice niche is centered around catering to people in large bodies, because it's a subset of our population who is extremely
00:01:55
Speaker
discriminated against everywhere but especially in the medical field. So my practice is what we call weight inclusive and trauma informed and so I primarily see people in large bodies and or people who are in recovery from eating disorders and in addition to providing like physical therapy for injuries and you know getting stronger I coach people I offer coaching services one-to-one or
00:02:19
Speaker
or a small group setting for people who again are usually an eating disorder recovery or who are struggling to accept and be comfortable in their bodies and maybe they want to get healthier but they don't want all that toxic diet culture you know changing the way they view themselves and making things harder so so I get to work with people who I feel like get mistreated and are marginalized and so I
00:02:42
Speaker
It brings me a lot of joy. I have a personal story related to body image and everything. That's what I do and I love it. That's amazing. I did want to just immediately address one thing, which is, I feel like a lot of folks have had that story where they've gone to the doctor and
00:03:07
Speaker
They've got all of these symptoms and the doctors basically just like, we'll lose weight and you'll be fine. And so in your experience, like what is that?
Critique on Weight Loss in Medicine
00:03:19
Speaker
What is this thing that is kind of infecting our medical system?
00:03:24
Speaker
Well, that, you know, doctors saying that is lazy medicine. That's number one. But really what it is, is fat phobia. It's this internalized fat phobia and weight stigma. And we've just all been brainwashed for so long. And I always preface, you know, because I will go hard on this topic, but I always preface these thoughts with this.
00:03:45
Speaker
I used to be that person. I used to be the person assuming weight was the problem for everything. I used to be a fitness influencer and a trainer. I understand where it comes from because that's what we are taught. It's work to unlearn that and then start to dig into the real unbiased research and recognize like, oh, I can cuss here, right?
00:04:08
Speaker
Oh, 1000 percent. But it's worth to recognize like, oh shit, I have been like spewing bullshit forever, like telling people, oh, you'll be fine. Just lose weight. So it's lazy medicine, because here's the thing. Even if you don't believe me, even if you think weight loss is the answer for half of the problems in our world, we know the research on how effective
00:04:35
Speaker
go lose weight is like unintentional weight loss is like 2% effective maybe and when I say effective meaning anyone who goes and tries to lose weight
00:04:47
Speaker
loses a significant amount of weight and keeps it off for more than one to three years. It's like two out of a hundred maybe. And we don't know what those two people are doing, right? We don't know what type of behaviors they're engaging in. So if a doctor who has lots of education, lots of research training,
00:05:06
Speaker
can suggest to a client, Oh, just lose weight and you'll be better. It's lazy medicine because we don't give in the science world. We don't give solutions that have such low statistical significance. So it's
Personal Story: Weight Bias in Military
00:05:19
Speaker
very lazy, but it's fueled by fat phobia. This idea that fatness is unattractive, disgusting,
00:05:26
Speaker
unhealthy, that the person who is fat or in a large body is lazy and not smart and doesn't care about themselves. We have these generalizations, but we get it from the entire world. I'm 42. Think about the movies growing up.
00:05:42
Speaker
Fat people weren't lead characters. They were sidekicks. They were bullied. They were to be talked about. They were the comedic relief. We've not seen people in large bodies as the centerpiece, the attractive one, the adored one, the super smart one. They're not. So our whole world has taught us that fatness is negative and bad and unhealthy. And so, yeah, when you go to a doctor and say, my knee hurts and they say, oh, if you just lose some weight, it'll feel better. I tell my patients, my clients,
00:06:11
Speaker
Say this, what treatment options would you give a small person a small person with my same complaints? Just ask for that. So what you just said like completely resonates with like my personal journey throughout my life.
00:06:30
Speaker
So I do wanna kind of preface this to let our listeners know like the reason you're on our show is because I've been following you on Instagram for like a minute now and your content is just, it's great. I absolutely love it. It's a breath of fresh air.
00:06:50
Speaker
I've talked about a little bit this on our podcast before, but I've never had an eating disorder, but I've had disordered eating habits. Absolutely. And I think, I feel like a majority of people probably fall into that category just because of our society. But when I was
00:07:10
Speaker
When I was active duty in the military, there are weight standards. There are things, not only weight, but appearance. And so even if I was stressed, even if I had something medically happening with me, if I didn't look the part, people were constantly like, hey, you need to do this. Hey, this. Hey, that. And it was so detrimental to my mental health. There's a reason I have a disability for anxiety.
00:07:38
Speaker
You know, and there was one time where I was getting constant pain in my back and I was like, this isn't normal. It wasn't like super, it wasn't like, I wasn't, it wasn't debilitating. It wasn't like super, it was like a one to two, but like constant, right? And so I went to the chiropractor and he's like, Oh, well,
00:08:01
Speaker
you know, if you lose 10 to 15 pounds, like that will release the stress. I was like, no, no. I've been bigger in my life and I didn't have this pain. I was like, this is not weight related. I can tell you that right now. I'm not a medical professional, but I know my body and I have been bigger than this. I was like, this is not from the weight.
00:08:20
Speaker
it was going to see a physical therapist who was like, you know, didn't, who did not judge me for where my body was, but actually took the time to figure out what was going on. And it was, I won't get into that, what it was, but you know, so I've experienced that it's like literally like, Oh, well, if you just lose 10 to 15 pounds, and I immediately was just like,
00:08:46
Speaker
No, like I know my body, like that wasn't the problem. I'm so glad you were able to verbalize that because so many people in the medical set, they feel so below the medical professional and like they can't speak up and advocate for themselves. And I spend a lot of time trying to empower people to be able to do that. But what you said is spot on. You know your, I tell every client I ever work with, I have never lived in your body.
00:09:13
Speaker
You have lived there your entire life. You are the expert. I am just trying to help you get to the solution, but you know way more than me about your own body. And when healthcare professionals don't have that mindset, you know, call it humility, really is just being, you know, reasonable, right?
00:09:32
Speaker
it changes how we're able to interact with them and get healthier and get the treatments we need because we feel like there's this God, like doctor's God, I'm down here, I don't know anything, they know everything, whatever they say is right. So I'm just happy that you were able to stand on your own two feet and say, no, and just use logic and reasoning. I have been larger than this and I did not have this problem. But I want you to know, I work with people who have been
00:10:00
Speaker
dismissed and turns out they had cancer.
Body Size and Financial Discrimination
00:10:03
Speaker
I've worked with people who have been dismissed and it's I mean really debilitating life-threatening illnesses and they have been dismissed because of their body size and I have I mean I get rage like the inside of me turns rich it's angering that people's lives are
00:10:23
Speaker
just dismissed because they show up a certain way. There's also so much parallels to what you see in the medical field that we see in the financial sector as well with how much money people have. Are they on assistance? They're just lazy. It's so intertwined.
00:10:50
Speaker
society and i can relate to that as well like so my roots are dirt poor like i grew up in detroit michigan the oldest of six kids to a single mom my mom struggled with drug addiction
00:11:07
Speaker
um, you know, turmoil in her childhood. So she really was just doing the very best she could. And I saw that we were on assistance my entire childhood. I was embarrassed. That was when the food stamps were paper. So I was embarrassed to go take them to the store. And yeah, there was a lot of a stigma. And then, um, growing up in like a black neighborhood,
00:11:28
Speaker
most people in some sort of poverty situation. I went to a high school that was a bit more affluent, but it was still all black. But when I went to college and I'm going to like a primarily white institution and I'm coming from the city and I'm coming from financial assistance and I'm on student aid, you know, getting grants and financial aid and it was a culture shock to go into that. So that was the first time I felt real shame around
00:11:56
Speaker
this idea that I did not come for money at all, not even a little bit of money. I can totally relate to that as well. You're right, society, it's tough because society is so faceless, but we're all a part of it. It's pinpointing the people. When I talk about
00:12:16
Speaker
you know, body stuff. I'm like, it's, it's the patriarchy, it's capitalism, it's diet culture. And it's like a lot of those same systems, like that control all of the issues. Like it's, it's, I don't know. It's, what was that cartoons? Like the, the brain, Pinky and the Brain. I'm going to take over the, like, they did it. Somebody really is the brain.
00:12:44
Speaker
Well, and I think, you know, not to get too kind of deep, I think that within all of these systems, right, we as a society have built them. I think that if you think about it from a, it's kind of interesting to think about it is like, what drove us to kind of think certain things as the norm, right? So like, we're all human. We're all
00:13:14
Speaker
So it's interesting to kind of like, why is there a patriarchy, right? Why is there, you know, the fat phobia, queer phobia, like, what is the root of these things? Because it exists everywhere, right? Yes, absolutely. And so to, I don't want to turn this into like a philosophy, a podcast, but it's so, I think if we as a society start
00:13:43
Speaker
Not necessarily saying, I mean, certain things are bad, right? But like, why? Why is it bad? What is the root kind of like motivator behind it? And how can we actually address the root rather than the symptom?
00:14:01
Speaker
And I don't have the answer to those questions, but it's always great to think about. It is great to think about.
Building Safe Spaces for Marginalized Communities
00:14:07
Speaker
I think one of the roots is this desire for power and control. Whenever we create these hierarchies, like, this is better than this. This is worse than this. It's because somebody wants to be on top.
00:14:19
Speaker
You know, it's about creating delineations between people and groups and genders and races and body sizes because somebody has a desire to be like the best, the top. It's like this internal competitiveness. I don't know. There's so many, so many facets to it and I don't have the answers either.
00:14:39
Speaker
you know, in order to just try to dismantle these systems. And even I always tell people like we're not going to dismantle any of this shit in a generation or two or three. But if we can make our bubbles cozier and safer,
00:14:54
Speaker
and bring more people into them, we can make our experience here better, you know? So that's just what I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to stretch this bubble because it's ugly out there, y'all, like it's, ugh, so. You know, I love that image though, because I do think it speaks to something that I talk about a lot, which is basically knowing who is in your community, nurturing that community as much as possible. And then I love how you said,
00:15:24
Speaker
and then trying to kind of bring people inside to your cozy space that you've created. And I think you're right, that feels like the only way to make each of our existence is better, you know, starting from a place of self, but then allowing more and more people to kind of come into that safe space. So I think that's beautiful. And it also made me think about something else that you mentioned as part of your practice, which is trauma-based healing.
00:15:53
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, so you mentioned the kind of discrimination that folks and bigger bodies experience, but where, what trauma is it that you're seeing along with that? Oh gosh, there's so much trauma. Uh, when you go into a space where you're supposed to be trusting of, of these medical professionals, and we can talk about the history of all different groups engaging in the medical system, right? Black people, Brown people, indigenous people, queer, like we can go there, but.
00:16:23
Speaker
When you go into a space, we'd be there all day. But when you go into a space where you're supposed to be able to trust and be honest, right? Because when we're talking about improving health and fixing things and addressing medical conditions, there has to be some transparency and some vulnerability.
00:16:44
Speaker
And so if you go into that space with that desire and that openness, and then you are shot down and made to feel like everything that's happening to you is your fault. And that basically if you just get it together, you'll be fine. There's a level of shame and guilt.
00:17:03
Speaker
So I feel like a lot of the trauma that I engage with is shame. People come to me and they are shameful and they bring that to me. They're like, um, they're like, Oh, I didn't do my home exercises. I'm so sorry. And I'm like,
00:17:19
Speaker
Lift your head up, honey. That's okay. What did you do this week? Well, I had this and my daughter had it. I was like, Oh, you were overwhelmed. You have so much going on. So you got to your exercises one time. That is amazing. And they're like, you know, because they're not expecting to be affirmed in that way, because I said, do the exercises four or five days a week, please. And then they come in. They're like, Oh, I just couldn't.
00:17:40
Speaker
And I'm like, okay, well, let's talk about why you couldn't. And let's appreciate and be like grateful for the fact that you did do once or twice. And let's talk about how we can squeeze in more. Is the list too long? Are some of these exercises reminding you of an experience you had with a trainer that got you all frazzled and stressed? Like let's talk about it because any, again, you're the expert of you. I haven't lived in your body or had your experiences. So everything that I give you is negotiable.
00:18:06
Speaker
Like every exercise, every recommendation, you get to really decide. I believe fully in autonomy. I'm just here to provide the evidence-based research, my clinical knowledge, my support, my kindness, my concern and regard for you, and my respect for you. And then you get to take and do what you think is best for you, and I'm just going to support you along that process.
00:18:27
Speaker
But trauma comes in many forms. A lot of it is around that idea of shame and feeling like you don't deserve to feel better or get better because you did this to yourself. And I hate that for people because it's still not true. You can literally take everything you've just said and apply it to every single coach, client that I've had as a financial coach around their spending and their money. And then when I'm like, Oh, what did you do your homework? Did we, how was spending this week?
00:18:58
Speaker
Like the shifty eyes, the looking down, the, you know, and it's like, it's, it's okay. I'm like, this is a, you're also the thing that I love to kind of bring around with, with, with.
00:19:11
Speaker
because I feel like it's the same thing when you have clients coming to you. They're trying to start these new habits, things that they have not done in their life. And it takes time to get those habits as part of your daily
00:19:30
Speaker
You know, routine or whatever, whatever, you know, fitting something new into your schedule. It's not just going to happen like that. And like, that's something I tell people from the get go. I'm like, Hey, so like, uh, I do, you know, goal-based savings with.
00:19:46
Speaker
I don't care what they spend their money on. I kind of treat it like macros, not to get into diet culture, but I'm like, if we're going to, so we're going to focus on these savings goals and then we're going to, that leaves us with $300 a week for your daily day-to-day spending. And they're like, well, what can I spend it on?
00:20:08
Speaker
I don't care. That's the autonomy. Right, exactly. Because each week's going to be different. Sometimes you need to go to Costco. Sometimes you need to pick up these prescriptions. I'm not going to micromanage your spending because that's when you get into the calorie counting and the diet. It's very similar. Great analogy. I love it. But then they're like, oh, I overspent this week. I'm like, okay, why? Let's talk about it. What happened?
00:20:37
Speaker
you know, life happens. Life's expensive. Yes, it is. I thought you brought that up because that's a journey I have also been on is healing my relationship with money. I know you all have all the books and recommendations. I read a really good book that kind of spoke to me in a more
00:20:55
Speaker
I struggle with some of the popular books around money, right? Like that. If I don't feel like you can relate at all to my upbringing, my life, then it's kind of hard for me to hear you say, do this and do that and don't do that. But I read the book by the money, which I forgot. I think it might just be money magic, maybe.
00:21:16
Speaker
I don't know, it was just really because it was a very spiritual sort of guide on like changing how
Impact of Personal Trauma on Habits
00:21:21
Speaker
you feel about money. And I realized I had so much shame, so much shame. She talked about that, like, almost like you're damsel in distress, kind of waiting for someone to save you as it relates to money. I was like, Oh my God, that's me. I'm like, I was just waiting to hit the lottery.
00:21:37
Speaker
for somebody I know to hit the ladder and be like, here's a million dollars, fix your life. I'm like, oh, thank you. It's like, oh, but making those small changes is really key. So that's actually something I've been working on the last two years is just a new relationship with money, understanding it's okay to want money and not feeling like you don't deserve money. I didn't realize that.
00:22:02
Speaker
So it's tied to your, your childhood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and we don't think about that. We don't understand how our habits and our childhood influence how we view or don't view money. Right.
00:22:23
Speaker
It's just, you know, it really, you know, did your parents talk about money? Did you have enough money? Did you, you know, these are all things that affect how you operate in the world. Relationship wise, money wise, like, let's dig into the trauma.
00:22:39
Speaker
That part. People probably come to you like, wait, what? Is this therapy? What do I do? No, it's hard work. But I agree. I think uncovering the traumas and the things that we experience as children is key to unlocking almost all of our stuff financially, with our bodies, with our relationships. But it's hard work. And a lot of people just don't want to do it. And I get it.
00:23:07
Speaker
And that was actually something I wanted to talk to you about. So like coach to coach, you know, like we're in the business of helping people change their lives, literally. And, um, you know, you mentioned that some of your clients come to you and they feel like, Oh, I, you know, I didn't do the things I haven't figured out how to incorporate these new habits into my life, which,
00:23:34
Speaker
yes, takes time and that's where we're there to help kindly guide them through. But what are some of the things that you found are actually helpful and useful as you're guiding people into this new version of their own lives?
00:23:51
Speaker
Oh, that's a good question. So a lot of it is, is working with them. I always tell people like, whether it's coaching or physical therapy, nobody's treatment plan looks the same because we're so different, right? So I might give you sort of a skeleton. Like, I think these would be great for you to address these issues and that. And then it's trial and error. They go and they try it and they're like, okay, this one was good. This one did not feel good. So it's about changing the form, modifying the movements. The same thing with the workout program. It's like, oh, that, that exercise, you know, that, um,
00:24:21
Speaker
Alternating lunge is hurting and doesn't feel good. Let's change your position Let's lessen the depth like let's let's modify it. So it's really about the modifications to the recommendations and suggestions so that it fits into their lives so that it doesn't feel like
00:24:37
Speaker
you know, they're waking up one day and they have to be completely different than they were the day before. So recognizing that it's baby steps, it's constant modifications, constant tweaks, tossing some stuff, grabbing new stuff and having someone along with you for that journey to kind of help give you the next recommendation. It's like, oh, that's working. Okay, now let's try this. Oh, that didn't work at all. Let's pull back and go to that. So it's really just about giving them that freedom and then affirming them and letting them know, like,
00:25:05
Speaker
what they're going through is normal. It's normal that this isn't catching on right away. It makes sense that this is challenging because you've never done it before. Encouraging them so that they can get out of that. Nothing good grows from shame. If you're sitting in that shame, you really can't make the next step forward. It's just about being with them and coddling them in some ways. I don't mind coddling people because
00:25:28
Speaker
I feel like we get beat up every day. So if I can come and hold your hand and give you a hug and tell you it's OK and give you another tool to try, I'm happy to do it because there's enough people beating you over the head with information and rules and structure and all of this. I want to give you freedom. So I want to give you as much liberation as I can to let you know you can make this your own thing. It doesn't have to be exactly how I do it or how I taught it. Like, let's work together to find
00:25:57
Speaker
you know the new path if you will. Yeah and I think you probably I'm assuming you so one of the big things as financial coaches right is like what I tell them is like I don't actually care what your goals are. What I care about is that you know what your goals are right and so that I can help you with those because if you don't know what you want I can't help you. I'm not going to tell you what's good for you right
00:26:25
Speaker
I view financial success as, are you doing the things in your life that you want to be doing? And are we also working towards being financially healthy? There's kind of pillars just as there are in physical health, right? But how you get to those is going to be completely dependent on what is important to you and how you live your life. And I'm assuming that you take a very similar approach with your health coaching clients.
00:26:54
Speaker
I'm not going to tell you what to do if it goes completely against your values and who you are as a person. You're not going to be successful.
00:27:02
Speaker
And so I think that's, it's really interesting to hear that the coaching side from, from your perspective is, is it's different yet the same. Yeah, it is because, you know, I'm sure like in your line of work, not everybody wants to be a self-employed millionaire, right? I mean, it sounds good, right? Cause it, and it's glorified on social media, of course. So sign me up. But in real life.
00:27:25
Speaker
When we're clear, what I hear you saying is clarity. You have to have clarity on your goals. When we're clear of what we want things to look like or how we want to feel at the very least, then we can start being very specific about our path and it is a very individual process. I have clients who don't
00:27:45
Speaker
They don't know really what they want sometimes. We start there a lot. And it's because health and wellness have been fed to us from the machine, from the monster. And we've been taught, if you want to be healthy, you must eat like this, you must look like this, you must go. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. My clients are shocked when I say like, stop going to the gym.
00:28:06
Speaker
They're like, wait, why? No, you don't have to go to the gym to get healthy. Why are you going to the gym? You hate it. It's funky. It stinks. You don't want to be in there. You don't like the people. The equipment's sweaty. You don't like cleaning everything. Like, why are you going there? Because somebody told you you should.
00:28:21
Speaker
Like why are you going, why are you doing this bootcamp with this psycho that's yelling at you and spitting in your face and it's like, oh, I just thought, no, like no pain, no gain, never miss a Monday. Like fuck all of that. That is all like. Listen to your body. Listen to your body. That part. So it's, it's, it's cool to kind of help people gain the clarity so that they understand like,
00:28:46
Speaker
What do I really want out of life? And when we're talking about health and fitness, if the goals are super, super, superficial and aesthetic based, unless you're in a fitness competition where you're trying, like you have to chisel your body to look a certain way to win.
00:29:03
Speaker
I can't help you because that isn't a real goal and it's not something that's going to be sustainable. You have to find the real why. So my clients, we start with why. Why are you trying to change your habits with movement or eating or whatever? What are you trying to get at? And sometimes it boils down to, gosh, I just kind of want to be able to chase my grandkids and play with them and get up and down the stairs without hurting all the time.
00:29:30
Speaker
I can help you with that. This whole, like, I got to get rid of this fad. And this is this, so you're like, I can't help you with that because you know what, at the end of the day, that's not the stuff that matters for real. And I understand when it's deeply rooted in you and you feel like it matters. I respect that. I've been there, but that isn't going to be the type of goal that's going to be
00:29:53
Speaker
as fulfilling as you believe it is, number one, because my journey and losing tons of weight and getting compliments every day and still not being satisfied is literally what I hear over and over and over and over again from all of my clients.
00:30:09
Speaker
And two, it's not something that has deep meaning. In order to stick with things that matter and be consistent with changing behaviors, we have to have meaning behind it. So what is the purpose? If it's just, I want to go to my 20 year class reunion and stunt on them. Okay, I get it. But really, is that the deepest parts of you?
00:30:32
Speaker
that you see it, you see it when your friends get engaged. Time for me to go to the gym so I can look six months till the wedding. I'm like, okay. Love that journey for you. I love that journey for you. No, I don't. Well, I try not to judge. I understand where it's coming from. Absolutely.
00:30:56
Speaker
But it's the same thing. I'm sure, Bevin, you can relate to this, where it's like clients come and they're like, what do you want to do? What's important to you? And they're like, well, you know, I'd like to get married. I'd like to have kids, buy a house. I'm like, OK, that's great. But what do you want to do? How do you spend your time? What's important to you? And sometimes we're the first people to ask them that. Oh, I believed it. I believed it. They're like, wait.
00:31:26
Speaker
Because society tells us what we're supposed to do. Right. Or their parents, you know, parents, their friends, their whatever. I'm like, no, what, what do you, like, I have had people just like complete, you just see their whole demeanor change. They're just like, Oh, I love that.
00:31:46
Speaker
I want to travel. I want to be able to open a flower shop. I want to be able to do this. I want to do this. Great. That's what we need to now sink our teeth into. The other thing I love telling people is that values and goals can change. Yes. Absolutely. You may think you want something. Let's start working towards it.
00:32:09
Speaker
And you may realize, I don't fucking want to do this anymore. Great. That's okay. That doesn't mean you're a failure. That doesn't mean you're doing something wrong. It means you are getting more clarity. But we don't value clarity as a society. We value
00:32:32
Speaker
succeeding, right? And a narrow version of success, for sure. So yeah, I, you know, that it's just wild to me, this whole conversation is the parallels are just... Yeah, I did not expect that. It's interesting, because it takes me back to what we were talking about earlier in the conversation around where those standards came from, where the patriarchy and the
00:33:00
Speaker
thinness and all these things came from. And the more I think about it, when we talk about it, it's capitalism. It's consumerism. It is. And we've definitely had this conversation before, but it is an idea of why do you want the single family home? Oh, because that is how our economy runs. Why do you want to be so thin? Oh, because it's
00:33:23
Speaker
really hard to maintain a thin body and it's expensive if you go all in. It's been a lot of money. You know, right? So it's like the more and more I think about it, I'm like, you know, why is straight hair the beauty standard? Because it's fucking expensive to get a relaxer every two weeks. You know, it's like these are the things that put money into our economy. I'm just going to keep, I'm going to keep thinking on that.
00:33:50
Speaker
I think it's capitalism, it's white supremacy, and it's the patriarchy.
Life Goals: Achieving a Soft Life
00:33:57
Speaker
Those three, to me, that's the brain.
00:34:01
Speaker
They're like, what can we do to make beauty less attainable, make housing less attainable? Let's make it harder for them and create these dichotomies of people because it does fuel the system. It fuels the system that separates the upper and lower class where we kind of get rid of the middle class and creates this pocket for these people to live the most abundant, ridiculous lives and to just kind of look down on all the poor, sad, poor people.
00:34:30
Speaker
fighting each other and scratching and going on diets and spending all their money. It's spooky, really. Especially in this country, in the US. Actually, it's funny you bring that up. I was just having a pretty in-depth conversation with my partner about, I have some ideas on what I want to do in terms of
00:34:58
Speaker
There's a few different classes that I want to take. I'm looking at maybe a master's degree. There's things that I want to do with my life. But I'm like, I don't know yet. I'm like, I need to just balance ideas. I was like, I need a sounding board. And so we had a pretty in-depth conversation. And he was like, well, what do you want? Like, what's the end goal? And I was like, the end goal for me is to
00:35:26
Speaker
have a soft life while helping people. That is, for me, the goal. I don't like the hustle. I don't need titles. I don't want any of that. I want to be able to live comfortably. I want to feel good. And I want to be able to help people. That is
00:35:48
Speaker
For me, that is the ultimate goal and I know that I have a few avenues of privilege. One being I do have guaranteed income for the rest of my life because of disability. So now it's like how do I...
00:36:07
Speaker
How do I take that and put it in a way that can help me get to where I want to go? And how can I buy still also, as I do, you know, I enjoy working with people, I enjoy it, but I don't want to
00:36:22
Speaker
I don't want the main focus of eventually having my own practice to be, well, I got to make money, so I need blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't want the root of that, which goes against everything our society tells us. And it's difficult to do.
00:36:38
Speaker
for most people. Um, and you know, so that is, it's the whole, um, kind of gone off track with this, but that's okay. That's the goal. Yeah. It's like, it's, and I don't want what everyone says they want, right? I just want to be able to enjoy my life. I want to be able to spend time with people in my circle and my community. And I want to be able to help people.
00:37:04
Speaker
I love it. I think that's the ultimate clarity to know what it is I want out of this whole thing, this whole process. What is the point? I follow the Nap Ministry on Instagram because I am so about reclaiming rest because I've been grinding my heart.
00:37:24
Speaker
Growing up in the chaos that I grew up in, for me, structure, discipline, diets, working really, really hard, that made sense to me. That was safety. It was all trauma responses. I know that now in my 40s, but that was what I thought was success. Just work hard. You won't be poor. You can own your own house. You can take care of your kid. You can do things differently. You can be an example for your siblings.
00:37:51
Speaker
it was a lot on my shoulders and I shouldered it and I did it but also I started to attain these things and I realized like oh this isn't what brings like the happiness though like it's fine to aspire to things and get degrees and open practices but this none of this is actually going to make me happy and so the very cool thing is I was blessed to be in the field of physical therapy and a part of the reason I chose physical therapy is because I knew
00:38:21
Speaker
that I would have options for working with anybody.
Balancing Career and Family
00:38:24
Speaker
So like my youngest patient was 12 hours old. I worked with a newborn baby who was born with a shoulder dystocia or brachial plexus injury like my daughter. And I had to do a little bit of therapy and show the moms and stuff. Amazing. My oldest patient in a skilled nursing facility, 102.
00:38:40
Speaker
and she was wise, okay? So I knew as a physical therapist, I could work with children, I could work with elderly people, adults, I could work with athletes, anything. And when I created this niche in the world of serving people in large bodies and an eating disorder recovery, that was when I realized, oh my God, I have brought my professional grinding, working hard career goals
00:39:08
Speaker
like right up to par with my passion and what fuels me and what gives me joy and so now I get to say I go to work and do something that if I didn't have bills I would do for free. That is an ultimate blessing because I know a lot of people don't have that.
00:39:23
Speaker
And so that's been the learning curve for me, understanding like, oh yeah, I work my ass up. I can work hard. I can be disciplined. I can lose some weight, trust me. But that is not where my happy lies. I want to be relaxed. I want to have a schedule where I can take off the afternoon and go see my kids.
00:39:44
Speaker
you know, program and I can, you know, pick them up from school every day. My schedule is literally built around taking them to school every day and picking them up from school every day because I need that time with them because pouring into them and enjoying them is more important than any dollar amount I will ever make.
00:40:00
Speaker
And so when you're clear on that and you know what the what the goal is and what the lifestyle is supposed to look like for you, you won't get caught up in all the bullshit chasing money or chasing other certifications and other. I've thrown a few certifications like I don't need that shit because it's not going to help me do what I want to do and live how I want to live anyway. So I love that. I think, you know, that was a perfect example of like how you build your life toward that goal.
00:40:29
Speaker
Yeah, so there's two things in there. The one is the 102 year old woman. Amazing. But those articles that are like, here's, you know, 10 tips to live, you know, past 100. I'm like, I don't want to with the way society currently is. I'm not saying I want to die right now. What I'm saying is
00:40:55
Speaker
I don't need to live that long because I don't, I don't know. I'm like, I don't, things don't seem to be getting better. Why do I want to stay here long? Like, heck me at about 88, please. Thank you. I, you know, I'm 35 right now. You know, I still got plenty of time, but you know, if it's my time, it's my time. I'm not trying to extend this any longer. Like, no, thank you. I have no interest in
00:41:26
Speaker
And then the whole like chasing, you know, the realizing, you know, I've recently, I've talked about this on the podcast, recently separated from my husband of six years and we're, you know, amicable, we're friends, we're staying friends, but it just helped, it brought more clarity of like, what do I want, right? And we built this, we renovated this home together here in DC,
00:41:54
Speaker
I want to stay in it for now because we put a lot of work into it, but also my next space.
00:42:02
Speaker
I'm getting an apartment. I want one of those luxury apartments where there's a concierge, there's a rooftop pool. And I don't have to deal with any of that. Because as a homeowner, I have to do everything. And I am glad that I've done it. This is my fourth property. I've been there, done that. But my next home, that's not a priority for me. My priority is having my space.
00:42:29
Speaker
and being able to enjoy it, but then not having to deal with all the other bullshit that comes with being a homeowner. And I told my mom that and she was just like,
00:42:39
Speaker
What? But I'm like, look, I'm at a point in my life where that is not something that is important to me. Being able to have the freedom to travel and spend time with people, and that's what's important to me. I have this laundry list of items that once the weather gets nice, I have to work on the house. I need to weed the garden. I need to do this. I need to do that.
00:43:06
Speaker
I don't want to have to do those things. I want to be able to
00:43:12
Speaker
you know, just go upstairs and enjoy the pool but not have to do the pH and chlorine and skin it. Exactly. I want those things because I feel like that's important at this point in my life. Maybe someday I will want a house again. That's the goal is changing and shifting because we're growing and evolving every day. So I love it.
00:43:38
Speaker
So Dr. Lisa, one of the things that you mentioned is that what brings you joy in the way that you set up your life is around being able to drop your kids off at school and pick them up, which I love that. And I think a lot of people would love that and would love to be able to, you know, wake up when their body wakes them up and, you know, basically live the soft life, have that same business. And then there's capitalism.
00:44:08
Speaker
Yeah. It's so not possible for so many of us really in our current situations. I recognize that. And there's a level of, I won't fully call it privilege because this is definitely a intentional thing I had to do and sacrifices I had to make to get this. But I'll say the privilege of, I have a spouse right now who works a very standard job. And so that gives me some more freedom and flexibility to do what I do for sure. But
00:44:38
Speaker
Yeah, capitalism has us all in a chokehold. I mean, even in this attempt, I did say, I used to say like 2024 is going to be my soft year. It is not, not at all. It has not happened that way. Maybe 2025, we'll see. But an understanding, like we were saying, our needs and our
00:44:59
Speaker
what we need in the moment and our goals and aspirations can shift and change and some things will be on hold for a time.
Challenges of Capitalism on Life Goals
00:45:07
Speaker
And so understanding like, okay, I wanted to ease into this year and rest more, but I have some important goals that I need to work on in order to prepare me for the next year or the year after that. And so yeah, I still have to do a little grinding, but even within the grinding,
00:45:23
Speaker
very careful. And I talked to my coaching clients about this a lot. We still have to create some softness within it because nobody was created to just go, we are not the energizer bunny. And if you run yourself into the ground and kill yourself dead working toward all these goals, what was the fricking point?
00:45:42
Speaker
You know, what are we getting at? So self-care is a lifestyle for me. It is not about waiting to the weekend or waiting to the trip or waiting to the summer. It is every damn day. What can I do that slows me down, calms me down, gives me some peace and joy? And it's great. I get that at work, but also that's in, you know, emotional labor. So.
00:46:02
Speaker
I have to get forward back into, I have to go sit down on the porch or the deck and look at birds. I have to, you know, scroll. I'm into animals these days. I don't know what's happening as I get older, but scroll some of my favorite Instagram accounts with like seals and otters and turtles.
00:46:18
Speaker
or cats or whatever, I have to sleep in and tell the kids mommy's taking an extra hour, go play on your tablets or whatever it is, it has to be every day. Sometimes that's like, I need a glass of wine. Next day it might be, I'm not drinking anything. It's about checking in with yourself and a lot of my work is around embodiment, getting back in your body and in your mind, your heart, your soul and understanding what you need in the given moment.
00:46:47
Speaker
and giving yourself that thing and being flexible. I'm all about routines. I pretty much have a set routine every morning, but every day I check back in and be like, this ain't serving me today. I'm tired. I'm going back to bed. So sometimes my self-care is a strenuous workout because I need to move and sweat. And sometimes self-care is skipping the workout. And so understanding that and being in tune with yourself and not taking all your cues. You know, when I was in diet culture, all of my cues for movement came outside of me.
00:47:16
Speaker
It was, you have to do this program this day, check this box, finish that, eat it this time, eat this, eat in this container. And it's like, fuck. I didn't even know my own voice. I didn't know my own hunger. I didn't know what I like to do because I was taking all of my cues from someone outside of me.
00:47:32
Speaker
And so when you tune back in and you get clear on who you are, what you want, what you need, and you're listening to your body's cues and signals, and you're in tune with your heart, you're praying, you're meditating, you're connecting with whatever you see as the creator of this universe, it changes everything, everything. So is there a place then for any of the challenges, like the hard 75 or anything like that? Oh, hell no.
00:48:03
Speaker
I will say, my past, I've been pretty consistently working out probably since 2018. Prior to that was very kind of on and off since I was 18 years old, kind of like going to the gym, not going to the gym, fighting a program, worked with personal trainers. Multiple times I've tried to do the whole competition thing, realized that that is just
00:48:34
Speaker
my mental health is more important than the stress and the, like, I respect anyone who does that because that is not me. That is not, I could not, you know, it's just this whole journey, you know, I follow a program and I, it's a science-based program that I, you know, buy and it's just, they give different exercises, they give,
00:49:04
Speaker
Here's kind of the structure, but also, hey, if you don't have the equipment or this doesn't feel right, here are some other ones that you can fill in. But yesterday, I went and I started my workout and I got a third of the way in and I was just like,
00:49:24
Speaker
I'm good for today. And that has taken so much work. I know. That doesn't just happen. So I want people to understand that if you are in those programs, if you are following something, you have some physical goals, you want to finish a program, you don't have to finish every single exercise, every single rep.
00:49:49
Speaker
The thing that I've learned is be intentional. If you can put intention behind your movement, behind what you're doing, that is enough. Absolutely. I want to address that too because a lot of people don't know this about me, but my father was a competitive bodybuilder and he was a personal trainer and the manager of the original Powerhouse Gym in Detroit, Michigan.
Critique of Diet Culture and Fitness Challenges
00:50:16
Speaker
That was a part of my life growing up. He passed away when I was 16, but I spent a significant amount of time in that gym. I watched him when he was competing and preparing. I respect that field because it's hard work, but you're right. The mental health piece is severe. Part of the reason I do the work that I do is
00:50:38
Speaker
The behaviors that we encourage in diet culture and in fitness culture are synonymous with the things we discourage in the eating disorder community because the habits are essentially the same. And when you said you've participated in disorder, absolutely most of us have because diets encourage disorder patterns. That's the highest likelihood of going on a diet is either gaining weight or developing an eating disorder, not losing weight.
00:51:02
Speaker
Those are just facts, statistically speaking. So I get it, and I saw my dad eat baby food when he was preparing for competitions, because he couldn't eat a lot of calories. And my thing is, that is fine, but understand that that is an aesthetic competition. It has nothing to do with health. It is, in many ways, the opposite of health. So be clear on that. And when you talk about the challenges, I said, jokingly, I said, hell no, the challenges. But I was talking about 75 heart, because it's bullshit. It's not science-based. Somebody just,
00:51:30
Speaker
came up with it and the world just fell in love with it and it's so dumb because essentially the things that they're requiring even though they throw in read a book like okay great read a book that's awesome but the behaviors that they're encouraging in there are excessive exercise and then watching your body transform in these 75 days
00:51:50
Speaker
And no one keeps up that lifestyle without becoming extremely disordered. So what happens is you do all the work, you see all the changes and people are like, oh, you looking good. And then you go back to normal life and your body recoils and it recoils double FYI because our bodies are just trying to keep us alive. So when we started depriving it and over exercising, it's like, what the fuck is she doing? Let me let me reserve some fat because she's trying to kill us.
00:52:16
Speaker
Then it comes back and that's why we end up with additional weight from, from that type of binge diet cycle that we participate in. So I do not push those types of challenges. Is there space and room to challenge yourself physically for in other ways? Absolutely. Like do it. If it makes you feel good, the point is to get back to the root and the why, why am I doing this? I want to challenge my mental tenacity. I want to push myself to do something difficult. I want to see how my body can.
00:52:45
Speaker
you know, climb this mountain, you know, literally or figuratively, those things are beautiful. But if it's rooted in, I need to look a certain way. I got to change my body. I'm so awful. I just need to do something. If it's coming from Shane, it's not going to be good. Nothing grows from that soil. Nothing positive grows from that soil. So, you know, so one, one more question. And I, you know, this has been a good one. We've been talking for a little minute, but
00:53:13
Speaker
For somebody who wants to really hear themselves and understand what their actual why is when it comes to their health and wellness, how would one do that? Because I know for myself, it does typically come back to aesthetics because that's the message that we get. So how do we break out of that mindset?
00:53:35
Speaker
So it's hard and sometimes you do need to work with someone. And so don't be afraid to work with a coach. Like honestly, cause we all need coaches, coaches need coaches. So it's about just, you know, getting some support. But if you, if you can't, you know, afford that or have access to that, then it's really just about, I always tell people to start from rock bottom, let go of all the things you're doing. That's why I tell a lot of my clients to stop working out and stop going to the gym.
00:53:58
Speaker
which is so counterintuitive to like from a healthcare professional, but literally stop because you have to quiet the noise to kind of get back in touch with you. So we're talking about like the eating stuff, right? People don't even know when they're hungry. People don't even go pee over the course of work day because they don't even stop and think like, oh, do I have to use the bathroom? So it's really just about silencing the noise around us so that we can tune back into what we want and what we need. So I have my clients make lists. I tell my clients to
00:54:28
Speaker
for the movement piece. Stop exercising and make a list of things that you really love to do that just happens to require movement. And I want you to think outside the box. This can be movement lying down. Some people put sex on the list. This could be movement sitting up. This could be movement moving like traditional exercises, but it doesn't have to be. It could be sports.
00:54:49
Speaker
Think about things you really love to do that just happen to require movement. And that's where we start with your fitness routine. Because if we can start it with joy, then it's more likely going to be sustainable and consistent because you like doing it. When we just say, Oh, I'm going to go to the gym because I need to get healthy. And you, like I said, you hate the gym or you don't know what to do with the damn gym. It's a waste of your time, money and energy. So
00:55:15
Speaker
It's like finding the things that you can easily gaslight yourself. Basically. My personal journey, what I have found helpful, and this may be beneficial for some, it may not be because it's mine, focusing on what has helped me, as you said, not worry less about
00:55:41
Speaker
And I talk about this a lot online is like, don't I used to be hyper fixated, like on the scale, what I put in my body, like constantly feeling guilty if I ate too much or too little, or just this constant, like just not in a good headspace, which then also made me stressed, which gave me cortisol, which, you know, I couldn't, you know, lose weight. So like, it's just all that.
00:56:05
Speaker
But focusing on simple things, right? Trying to make sure I get enough water. Trying to make sure I get enough sleep. Did I move my body? And for me what I have found what's been really helpful is how much protein have I
00:56:20
Speaker
Consumed not necessarily like oh I need to eat grilled chicken you know like but like how look at and focus on one factor of the food that I'm putting into my body and view food as a fuel for me to move.
00:56:36
Speaker
has been for me has been life-changing especially coming from kind of that culture of you know I think the first diet that I was on I was 12 years old right like uh south beach diet you know like yeah yeah
00:56:52
Speaker
Keto did keto, you know, multiple times, like just really fucked up my body. So it has taken a lot both physically and mentally to kind of change that. And those just keeping those pillars, those like bite size, no pun intended, but size things that you can, you can focus on each day. You'll see those.
00:57:15
Speaker
change. And I'm not a medical professional, but that's just my personal journey. Understood. No, no, no, it totally makes sense. And bite size changes and shifts in the way you approach a goal or something you're trying to attain.
00:57:32
Speaker
is really important and my biggest tip is tuning back into yourself and figuring out what you need. The Intuitive Eating Book is a great resource for the food piece of it because we don't, like I said, we don't check in with ourselves, we don't know when we're hungry, we don't know when we're full and diets just encourage us to basically restrict, restrict, restrict and then binge and then do it all over again.
00:57:55
Speaker
finding ways that you are sustaining and caring for yourself always tell people fed is best so even if it's not the most amazing meal or not the the healthiest meal that is best and adding in versus taking out every time we want to get healthier we want to say no this no that no
00:58:12
Speaker
What can I add in to give me more nutrition, to give me better help? How can I add something that will make things better versus creating this restriction list? Because everything you put on that list is going to be what you're desiring for the next 50 days. You're going to want it every day. Just a different approach to health and adding in instead of taking away all the time. I love that so much.
Upcoming Projects and Contact Information
00:58:35
Speaker
Dr. Lisa, thank you so much for being here with us. You are so dope. You are incredible. Like I hope we can become best friends because I am in love with you. And also, I really appreciate what you shared with us and with our audience today. I think it's so important. Where can people find you and what is on the horizon for you? What do you have coming up?
00:59:02
Speaker
Yes, well first of all, thank you for y'all for finding me and having me on here. I'm excited and we can absolutely become best friends. Just hit me in my DMs. I live on Instagram, so you can find me on Instagram. It's at HealthyFit. It is spelled P-H-I-T. And then my website is healthyfit.com. And what's on the horizon? So many things. I have a journal out. It's on Amazon. It's called the Body Respect Journal. I think it's back there.
00:59:33
Speaker
And it's just a 30 day affirmational style journal with some writing prompts to kind of help you reintroduce the idea of respect back to your body. Not all of us are going to be super body positive and in love with what we see in the mirror every day. And that is okay, but you can respect your body. And when you respect your body, you're treated better and more kindly. And so that's sort of my goal right now. I'll be coming out with a series of journals, but that's the first one.
00:59:57
Speaker
I have a course you can find on my Instagram link tree right now that's called It's Not You. It's the diet, and it's a seven step process for breaking up with toxic diet culture for good. Those are the big things. I'm always coaching people virtually and in person, and obviously I'm here for physical therapy needs if you're in North or South Carolina. That's amazing.
01:00:24
Speaker
Dr. Lisa's information in the show notes for you. So yes, if you are, click the show notes, you'll be able to find all of her stuff if you didn't write that down, so. Excellent. Well, that was amazing. Thank you again for being here. You're so awesome. I hope everybody listened closely because I know I'm ready to just like, like I'm listening to my stomach right now and it's like, give me a clementine.
01:00:53
Speaker
But until next time, everybody who's listening and watching, if you have any questions for Dr. Lisa, if you want to see her come back, please let us know. You can find us at Dirty Money Underscore podcast on Instagram, and you can always hit us in our DMs or comments under any of our posts and ask questions, give your comments, concerns, et cetera. But until next time, bye. Bye.
01:01:32
Speaker
If you've enjoyed today's episode, please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe. That's the easiest way to support our show. We hope you took away a new nugget of information or perspective today, and we're grateful you took the time to listen to us. Until next time, bye. Bye.