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Finding Finding Inner Acceptance in a Productivity-Obsessed World with Christina Carlson
34 Plays9 months ago
SUMMARY
Welcome to another episode of Dirty Money with Bevin and Mike. In today's episode, we discuss finding inner acceptance in a productivity-obsessed world, accompanied by our guest, Christina Carlson.
Christina brings a unique perspective, having navigated through the complexities of identity, spirituality, and societal constructs. From questioning capitalistic expectations to advocating for rest as a form of resistance, Christina's narrative invites us to challenge conventional norms and embrace authenticity in a world fixated on productivity.
Christina is an ex-religious individual who grew up homeschooled in the heart of the Midwest. She has been working as a coach while pursuing her master's degree, offering incredible insights into self-awareness and personal growth. Throughout this episode, we'll journey through Christina's origin story, exploring the influences of her upbringing and the pivotal moments that shaped her worldview.
TOPICS
[3:30] Christina’s Origin Story
[10:05] Artistic Conversations and Growth
[27:30] The evolution of Christina’s coaching
[39:40] Questioning Society's Constructs
[45:55] Getting back to our roots
[1:03:55] Rest as resistance
RESOURCES & LINKS
Connect with Christina
Instagram: @careercoachingwithchristina
TikTok: CareerCoachChristina
Website: https://www.christinamcarlson.com/
Other Resources Mentioned:
- The Origins of You by Vienna Pharaon
- Discovering the Inner Mother by Bethany Webster
- Polysecure by Jessica Fern
- United States of Tara
- Life In a Day
CONTACT INFO
Bevin Morgan:
Instagram: @bevinmorgan & @temple_eanna
Website: www.templeeanna.com & BevinMorgan.com
Mike Poulin:
Instagram: @mjpou56
Dirty Money Podcast:
Instagram: @dirtymoney_podcast
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Dirty Money' Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to Dirty Money with Bevin. And Mike. A space to talk about financial topics for folks who don't fit into traditional financial spaces. We believe money is a tool for everyone. Our mission is to provide a literal microphone and platform for queer, BIPOC, polyamorous, and sex-positive individuals. No topic is off the table here.
00:00:31
Speaker
That being said, one tiny little housekeeping note. For those listening who may have others with sensitive ears, the listener discretion is advised because we do not censor ourselves. That's right. You've been warned, but enough from us. Let's get this episode started.
Unpacking Identity and Background
00:00:53
Speaker
Welcome back to Dirty Money with Bevan and Mike. Hi Bevan. Hi Mike.
00:00:59
Speaker
and I'm gonna be your host today. And we have a pretty incredible guest for you all. She is coming to us through our show note fairy, a connection of a connection, so we love this. I'm super excited to dive into her story, but I'd love for everyone to welcome Christina. Hi, Christina.
00:01:25
Speaker
Hi, thank you for having me. Yeah, of course. Like I said, I'm super, super pumped to get going. Just tell our listeners who you are, what you do, how you identify, and where are you coming from? Yeah, so I feel like
00:01:45
Speaker
Some bigger identifiers is that I'm ex-religious. So I grew up in a like high control religious situation, homeschooled, very sheltered. I'm queer. I identify as non-binary and a woman. She, they, I'm very flexible with that. And I have ADHD. Those are my like, who I am as like those qualifier categories. But as far as what I do, I,
00:02:15
Speaker
I like to have conversations and...
00:02:19
Speaker
conversations that tend to provoke things in people and inspire things in people that I often don't intend. And I kind of like to view my work as like art.
Art and Spirituality in Work
00:02:30
Speaker
Like I say some shit and then like it does something that I couldn't have planned for, you know? Like it's very spiritual. It's very just like, I don't know where this is going, but I know somehow you're going to hear something you need to hear in this.
00:02:46
Speaker
and just like let it go, kind of like art. It's like you take from it what you needed. And so that's come out in the form of coaching over the past three years. And we'll be coming out through therapy when I get my master's. That's incredible. I just the way in this first minute and a half of hearing who you are, I am just like ready to just dive into this.
00:03:12
Speaker
Bevit, I can tell you are too. The wheels are spinning. Where did it all begin? Take us back. How did we get here? Tell us the Christina journey. I want to know more. Okay, I love this question because the answer is never the same.
00:03:37
Speaker
I feel like every single time I tell this story, it's like a different version. So I'm going to give you what popped into my head just now.
00:03:45
Speaker
my mom walked the halls with me. I wasn't coming out of the womb. I didn't want to. And that's where my story began. I wanted to be comfortable and to stay. That was the beginning of Christina, the Taurus, Libra, Libra. I was just stubborn. I also, when Devin asked me this,
00:04:09
Speaker
for my podcast is like, how did we get here? My answer, which is joking, but also serious. Lots of therapy. Yes. Yes. Also same. Like this moment here or on this planet here, you know? Yeah. I grew up, I was born in Illinois, Belleville, Illinois, which is East St. Louis, if you're familiar. Okay.
00:04:38
Speaker
and then moved across the river and grew up in University City and Ferguson in the very heart of the Midwest. If you ask people, it's not technically the Bible Belt. However, Missouri was divided in the Civil War, so the South is right there and cuts into both cities.
00:05:06
Speaker
And so there is a lot of like Southern influence and I was raised, my mom grew up brethren, if you're familiar, which is like a branch off of Puritans and the Quakers, like the, just very like clean lines, like no life music. They had a piano and hymns, like it was very simplistic.
00:05:33
Speaker
Um, and my dad was raised Catholic and he converted to like fundamentalist Christianity right before meeting my mom and they met in Bible college. So, so of course you're queer. That's what happens. Literally. Yes. Like the pipeline is we, I joke because my ex-husband was conceived at the Republican national convention. So.
00:06:05
Speaker
feel you on that. It had to happen. Yes. God works in mysterious ways. I know, when the Lord speaks. Yeah, so I like, I don't know, I have a lot of like,
00:06:25
Speaker
I've had a lot of time to process this. Like you said, I got here through therapy. I've had a lot of different experiences looking back on my story and like a lot of people, I think I've looked back and I've had one story and then I've been able to look back and tell another.
00:06:44
Speaker
And for a while it was like a very happy one. Like I looked back and was like, this is perfect. This was perfect. Like this is just like exactly how it was supposed to be. I had idyllic, you know, whatever. And it wasn't until I was about 26 that I had started to like have permission to look back. And then I like, I think it was like in 20, maybe 2020 I had a day
00:07:13
Speaker
influenced by some plans that I was able to like admit.
00:07:19
Speaker
that I really was sad, like I was just crying and was just like, oh, this experience was actually really devastating. And I couldn't even put into words like what exactly it was at that point, but that's like a version that I've allowed myself to grieve, I think. And so now I kind of like am holding both of those things, like the beautiful and like the devastating of all of it.
00:07:47
Speaker
Have you heard of the book called The Origins of You?
00:07:51
Speaker
No, but I'm going to write that down, right? Because literally what you just explained is the whole premise of the book is like, we believe, we feel like our childhood was, you know, perfect or, especially for most people, right? Like obviously people have awful childhoods, but a majority of people, you know, our parents typically are trying to raise us the best way that they can. And so we feel like we don't have permission to
00:08:17
Speaker
unpack the trauma that we have, but understanding that everything that happened as a kid is impacting how we focus and how we navigate through
Healing through Books and Conversations
00:08:27
Speaker
the world. And it's like, how do you unpack that? How do you find the origins of you to move past it? So it's an incredible book that I'm currently reading. So that's why it's top of mind. And you're like, yeah, you know, I thought I had a great childhood
00:08:42
Speaker
which I'm sure there are parts of it that were incredible, but it's okay to also understand that things are also traumatic. Yes. I love that you brought that up. I wrote that down because I would love to read that. I just finished reading
00:09:03
Speaker
Discovering the Inner Mother by Bethany Webster. And the concept is deconstructing patriarchy through the matriarchal line. But it's very interesting because even looking at it through a queer lens, I was like, this is just relevant for every parent and kid. It's just the lens through which she's looking at it is through how the world hates women and has been set up in this way to hate difference and any kind of feminine anything.
00:09:34
Speaker
It's so fascinating because she says we hold up these idyllic childhoods and these idyllic things because we feel like we betray someone who gave up everything for us by admitting, what's if I see you? You're like, yes. Yeah. Well, so one of the things that you mentioned is that you've been on this
00:10:01
Speaker
like looking back journey and really kind of finding your center and understanding your origins and that the thing that drives you is having these artistic conversations with people, these conversations that change people through some magic. And I'm just wondering how those two things connect for you. Hmm.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's an excellent question. I think there's a part of me that from my earliest memories has wanted to understand myself.
00:10:38
Speaker
and wanted to know if I was normal. That was kind of always the question. I would say like really awkward and really gross things, like asking like, is this normal? Like I have, you know, vaginal fluid. Is this normal? Like to a group of friends, you know, like say the awkward shit, like, because I wanted to know, like I really did. And I think from being bold in that way, out of desperation,
00:11:04
Speaker
has created an avenue, like I created an avenue for myself to learn through conversation with other people. And after 35 years of doing this, I feel like I've learned to hold space for other people because
00:11:23
Speaker
I get so much out of it. I learn so much from being there for other people. Like obviously I have people in my life who are there for me as well, but there is so much richness and wisdom to be found in
00:11:38
Speaker
each person's vulnerability and story. And so it's been just as much of a transformative part of my experience to have those conversations. I wouldn't be where I am without those conversations. I can pinpoint moments by a waterfall with my brother in El Salvador or Costa Rica or anywhere like these places that Puerto Rico specifically
00:12:08
Speaker
where conversation was the thing that unhinged a part of me that had been locked up and not vulnerable and it these these expansive ideas of like well what if it's like oh that this i this small idea of this religious concept just completely falls apart
00:12:29
Speaker
in a conversation where people are vulnerable. And whereas that human experience is actually present and it's like, oh, it changes everything. And I think that the two are very much intertwined for me. It's funny you bring that up and I feel like one of the reasons that we have so much hesitation
00:12:58
Speaker
I think to be vulnerable is the idea that, I mean, it's not only scary to put yourself out there, right? Like to put, to be vulnerable is scary in and of itself, but exactly what you just said is it also can just completely deconstruct everything that you maybe base your life off of.
00:13:20
Speaker
the values and the ideas that you have sought comfort, right? We like comfort, right? As humans, we seek comfort. We don't like to feel uncomfortable. But growth happens when we are uncomfortable. So it's such a dynamic, right? And specifically with religion,
00:13:48
Speaker
You know, it's these ideas and principles that we try to guide our, guide our life off of. And if we, when we are met with things or experiences that the human experience that challenges those, that's scary. That's hard. It's hard work. And so, you know, being vulnerable is, is sometimes seen as being weak.
00:14:15
Speaker
Right. As a society, we kind of see it as being weak, but it's actually one of the strongest things you can do. Oh my God. Yes. This is a whole sermon right here.
00:14:27
Speaker
Yeah, vulnerability is a fascinating thing. Because like you said, there's a fear if you're open to conversations, if you admit how you're feeling, which for me, like I'm defining vulnerability as honesty, like being honest about what I feel, want, need, like, think those kinds of things, that's vulnerable. Being us is what's vulnerable. And like,
00:14:51
Speaker
i was taught especially in religion and i feel like patriarchy does the same thing is like this you're taught self-control self-control is the thing that is like oh the holy grail it is like held up as the ultimate and
00:15:06
Speaker
it doesn't allow for us to get to know ourselves as a person because we are controlling ourselves and we're so used to controlling every little nuanced thing about what we're doing and saying and even thinking that like putting our guard down in any of those places I think is for one only possible
00:15:27
Speaker
in our humanity. So mostly in connection with other people, but also stillness. And that's why we're so fucking busy because we can't ignore it if we're quiet and still. Right. And it's so funny that you bring that up. Have you seen, are you a big Broadway musical
00:15:51
Speaker
I don't have to see them, but I listen to the soundtracks all the time. OK, Book of Mormon. Oh, yeah. Turn it off. Turn it off, right? Don't have those thoughts. Just turn off, right? And it's the exact thing. It's like the self-control of like, you need to think this way. Religion is telling us we need to act and do things in a certain way. And if you don't do those things, it's a sin. It's bad. And you'll go to the bad place.
00:16:20
Speaker
actually riding on a child let alone an adult yes yes especially all of us here queer right growing up trying to figure out who you are in raised roman catholic okay being told that being gay is bad
00:16:46
Speaker
but I liked my friend, I had a crush on Kelsey and Steven, but I wasn't, that one, it was so confusing, right? Trying to figure out who the fuck I was with someone, you know, this omnipotent power that was going to like smite me for having these thoughts. It's such a like mind fuck, right? Like,
00:17:13
Speaker
Yes. And, you know, I don't know what your experience was, but it sounds pretty similar. You know, I didn't come out until I was 24. So, you know, figuring out who I went, still figuring out who I am.
00:17:31
Speaker
And so, you know, it's just, it's one of those things that as the more we ask questions, the more we're vulnerable also with ourselves. I think, you know, you can be, I think a lot of times we, we gaslight ourselves into thinking that the things not allowing ourselves to feel things that we actually want to feel.
00:17:54
Speaker
Oh, and that comes from such a sweet protective place. I even remember thinking this and then I was like, oh, I can't think that, but if I'm going to make sure that everyone else believes this, I need to believe this myself. Basically what I was doing was if I'm going to lie to someone else, I have to lie so much to myself that I believe it.
00:18:20
Speaker
And that's so beautifully protective. It's so beautiful and so devastating because like, I mean, we have, we have an incredible work now to undo that and heal that. But like, good Lord bless our sweet and ourselves who were like, I can't fucking do this unless I just get on board. And so here I go. Hmm.
00:18:46
Speaker
I mean, that's such an interesting thought though. And I'm wondering how that affects all of us in like our daily lives.
Critiquing Financial and Social Systems
00:18:55
Speaker
So for instance, you know, Mike and I are both financial coaches when we're not doing this. And one of my strongly held beliefs is that money isn't real. It's, you know, a fiction that we all just have bought into because we have to in some ways. And so,
00:19:14
Speaker
like how am I protecting slash devastating myself every day by like lying and gaslighting myself into this idea that money is important.
00:19:28
Speaker
Yeah, totally. And what does that mean? What does it mean that money is important? And what does it mean to us? And is it possible to detach your worth from making money, even though that's what everyone else is seeing? There is a real challenge to
00:19:51
Speaker
to existing in a space that tells you your experience isn't valid. And that's true for being queer. That's true for being someone who's like you is just like, this is fucking bullshit. Like money is not real, which it's not. We just for some reason decided that this was how we were going to go. And it's really backfiring.
00:20:09
Speaker
But like we're in that place, how do we exist with the nuance of that? Because I had this conversation with my sister who's a social worker and she is her adamant belief and I agree with this as well as like religion is harmful. Like it is a top down power dynamic situation and, and, and, and there are people who are benefiting from it.
00:20:34
Speaker
There are people who are in it. There are people who need it. And so what does it mean to exist in a world that like...
00:20:43
Speaker
where we are existing in like a space of equality instead of like this just needs to like go away because maybe it does and because also we can't control that. And I feel like that's what you're describing with money. It's like, I can't make it go away and it's stupid and I'm following the rules because that's what I have to to exist. So how do I hold all of that nuance and be whole without it? Therapy.
00:21:11
Speaker
Well, that's what I was saying in my perspective because my sister's like, get rid of it. This is awful. And I'm like, yes. And how do you support a person to live in this, to hold that nuance? Because what I'm interested in is what kind of ideas you can individually come up with to survive in the world that you live in.
00:21:35
Speaker
Like, do you need to think about it like a video game? Like, go ahead. Like, there's so many ways that you can do this on an individual level to make that work for you. And we also need the social workers and people who are going to actually abolish this shit. So it's like a bull, you know, it's both, you know, it depends on like what you feel like you're calling us to like hold, which for you, it's people with their money, you know? Right. Yeah. It's like,
00:22:02
Speaker
Acknowledging that this system is weird and broken and unnecessary in a lot of ways. And it's also the one that we have. So let me help you navigate it. Right. Like it's just in like the most holistic and healthy way possible. And, you know, it kind of.
00:22:21
Speaker
ties in Bevin to one of your favorite topics, right, the racial wealth gap, right, like, there's, it exists, it is there, but, you know, the more research you have dug into it it's like,
00:22:37
Speaker
Like there's not a whole lot we can do about it. So how do you exist? How do you, how do you, and it, there's only the racial wealth gap. There's the gender wealth gap. There's the queer wealth gap. Right. So like how, what, right. It's like this thing exists. We know it exists. The more layers we peel back, the more.
00:23:02
Speaker
sometimes frustrating it can be because it's like, well, okay, we're talking about this. All right. Let's pull this part back. Fuck. Here's another layer. All right. All right. But, uh, shit. Okay. Like it just feels like the never ending, you know, it's the idea of like, yes, therapy is incredible, but like, what if we had a society where we didn't need therapy? Right? Like,
00:23:27
Speaker
Sorry, not to completely destroy your whole plan of a future, Christina. But how do we get to a point as a society that people don't need to go to therapy because the system is making them be in a place mentally where they need that? How do we build a community that doesn't center around patriarchy, that doesn't center around capitalism, that doesn't center around
00:23:58
Speaker
you know, like white supremacy, right? Like how do we collectively do it better? Because we're here, right? We're here, we're queer, some of us. And like we don't have to be doing the things in the way that we're doing it, but unfortunately the people that are benefiting from this system now have so much power that
00:24:26
Speaker
How do we, how do we exist? How do we, how do we, how do we burn it all down without burning actually burning it down or, you know, hurting people in the process? Right. Cause yeah, that's a, it's like.
00:24:41
Speaker
Honestly, this kind of gets me excited. It's maddening and also this is what evolution is. We wouldn't be existing as people the way that we are if we had arrived there already. I hope also for an existence one day where we don't need therapy, but I think that happens through everyone going to therapy. I also think
00:25:10
Speaker
This is, this is what it means to evolve is the struggle is people asking the questions is continuing to ask these questions is wrestling with the, uh, this doesn't work. This doesn't make sense. Right. And it's, it sucks. Cause it's so slow. Like it, we want it to be faster. We want this to like, we want to be there. And like, in many ways we can create spaces and places.
00:25:40
Speaker
and where we are leaning into these things. And there is like a devastating and beautiful surrender to actually being with what is.
00:25:53
Speaker
and the beauty and pain that is existing there. Because that is what it means to be human right now. Even if it's not what we want it means to be human right now, that is it. And there is a lot of beauty still there. I watched this
00:26:13
Speaker
There's two films, Life in a Day. There's one in 2007, I think, and then another one they did in 2020. And they took, it's Google, I think, just asked people to send in clips from this one day. And so they have millions of clips they put together in one video. And they start with the beginning of the day and go through till the end of the day, but it's everything. It's sadness, it's loss, it's joy, it's birth, it's life, it's,
00:26:42
Speaker
It's everything, it's Zenzu, it's Samsara, it's like all of what it means to be human and it's not whole without all of it. And I like, I feel like I hold both because, you know, fuck this shit, like there's so much better and
00:27:04
Speaker
And there's something like poetic and beautiful about the evolutionary process and getting to see people like both of you who have a vision for something deeper and who hold that already inside of you.
Self-Relationship and Community
00:27:17
Speaker
Like that's so fucking incredible to me. One thing that I wanted to talk to you about Christina is
00:27:31
Speaker
So speaking of evolution, just this kind of journey that you've been on. So you mentioned that before you were doing career coaching, you were doing self relationship coaching. And then you're like, you know, like I rebranded it as career coaching was basically like the same thing. So I'm curious what like self relationship coaching is. But then you also mentioned that like the concept of career coaching isn't really
00:28:00
Speaker
100% your jam, so you're changing up again. So just will you kind of tell us like what these things are and kind of where you're headed and all that kind of stuff? Yeah, absolutely. So I feel incredibly passionate about a relationship with ourselves because I think the whole like self love and like
00:28:21
Speaker
like a command of yourself just like really doesn't jive and doesn't work it just became another rule we had to follow in a public place you know like you had to
00:28:35
Speaker
You couldn't any longer just make fun of yourself. You had to pretend like you loved yourself. Like, come on. And so for me, self-relationship is seeing yourself as a person, getting to know yourself as a person who might think differently than all of the rules and stuff that you have in your head. They might actually want something different.
00:28:58
Speaker
And that's the scary part, the vulnerable part that we were talking about. Like what does it actually mean to like be still and realize that like I have these feelings now. And that's not what I want to be having. That's not what I want to be feeling. I would much rather like control this situation and keep myself feeling safe by not being in relationship with myself or being in a dominant one anyway, you know? And I think like,
00:29:24
Speaker
Relating to ourselves is literally like what life is. Self-relationship to me is like seeing yourself as a person as a part of the whole. This can't be done as an individualistic way. It's not like the self-love, I'm going to do it all myself and figure it out. Self-relationship is something you do in community with other people because you can't do it without knowing how to relate to other people.
00:29:46
Speaker
You do it in knowing how to relate and learning, relearning how to relate to yourself, the way that you would to your best friend, the way that you do to people in your community. These are not separate things. And I think that's the rebrand we need right now in Aquarius season is like.
00:30:04
Speaker
self-relationship is about relating to all things, including yourself. Because I was born a martyr. I read Fox's Book of Martyrs before bed. The people who died as missionaries were my bedtime stories. I wanted to go up and be Amy Carmichael and build an orphanage that we could burn down five times. That was my goal. These things were like
00:30:28
Speaker
Devastating like I wanted to work until it killed me like Serve until it killed me because that's what I was taught and I think it's so critical Because whether you were raised in religion or not that patriarchal bullshit is there That we include ourselves in the communities that we build because otherwise you just got a bunch of white saviors and social work trying to save everybody and there's not healing taking place and
00:30:57
Speaker
If we want to do something different, we have to do it differently on our level, not just a new external system. It has to be like, I'm going to help you. And then at five, I have to leave to take care of my daughter and call me in the morning, you know, but I'm going to go to sleep now. Like it has to be boundaried because we are teaching the other people boundaries. Like it just has to include both of our humanity. Yes.
00:31:25
Speaker
Have you, so I also identify as polyamorous and there's a book called polysecure by Jessica Fern. I don't know if you're familiar with it. Okay. The, one of the premises of the book is, you know, the idea of your primary partner is actually your relationship with yourself. And that was
00:31:55
Speaker
mind that literally shifted my entire life when I read that. Like I, she said that I started crying. I do the audio. That has just been a fundamental shift in how I view, how I talk to myself, my internal, like,
00:32:17
Speaker
Am I being kind to myself? How am I talking to myself? Am I listening to my body? Am I listening to my mind? Or am I bullying myself? Am I hard on myself? Because if I'm not
00:32:34
Speaker
If I'm not nurturing my relationship with myself, all the other relationships that I have outside of that are not going to be healthy. They're not going to be secure. And so I think that that is something that we as a society, regardless if you consider yourself monogamous or polyamorous or however you identify in how you navigate through this world, I think that we don't
00:33:03
Speaker
It's actually, because it is part of the community, but we need to bring our best, we need to make sure we're taking care of ourselves and bring our best selves to the community. If we're hurt and we're bringing that into other spaces, like that's not going to kind of boost everybody else. You know, we see it, you know, people, that's to me also the root of like,
00:33:32
Speaker
homophobia and things like that is people are actually projecting right their own insecurities or their their their hurt of themselves because they're not they're not being true to who they are and they're not honest and vulnerable with themselves right and so it all kind of it's because yes it it is about community but you need to make sure that you are part of the community
00:34:00
Speaker
Right? And no one else is going to know what's going on inside your brain except for yourself. And if you're not listening to it, if you're not taking care of it, if you're not then understanding what or trying to understand what you need and communicate that to others, it's not going to heal. Because no one else can do that part for you.
00:34:25
Speaker
Yeah, that is exactly right. I think that every relationship would benefit from a polyamorous mindset, whether they're open in other relationships as well. I feel like in the past three years, I've looked deeply into and had so many conversations on my podcast with my friend Audra about this because they're polyamorous or polyqueer, whatever they want to call it. They are free in their relationships in so many different ways, but we've taken this idea
00:34:54
Speaker
And you can apply it to so many things. I think everything should be queer. I think we just have everything else is in a box. I feel like even in a quote unquote straight relationship, that should also be queer. It should allow for a difference. It should allow for a nuance. Because there's two unique individuals there.
00:35:23
Speaker
It has to include that, and I love that you brought that in. Your primary relationship is yourself. I've been diving into internal family systems lately for my own delight. It's very beautiful, but it's like a therapy that focuses on different parts of you.
00:35:45
Speaker
Some people use it as like different ages, but there's all these different parts of you as the premise of it. There's managers, there's firefighters, people who come in immediately, and then there's like the wounded inner or happy inner little kid. And I find these, and then there's the higher self, which is like your higher self or the person who is the inner parent, the one who's guiding you.
00:36:12
Speaker
whatever you wanna call that. And it's so interesting to me because I like,
00:36:21
Speaker
I just find it fascinating. I think our whole mindset of how we look at our mental state needs to also be poly because right now and what it has been for so long is individual and is like an attempt to smash all parts of ourself into one cohesive being so that it makes sense to someone else.
00:36:45
Speaker
But I was crying two days ago to my partner about feelings I was having. And I was like, this is the insecure part of me. And you know that I'm fully fucking confident in this part. It's like, these are both existing at the same time. And she's still going to show up sometimes. That's how it is.
00:37:04
Speaker
I really think our mentality towards mental health and towards people should be one of multiplicity, one of allowing for all parts to exist and belong, just like we should be allowing all types of people to belong within our community. I think the more that we do that with ourselves and allow multiple parts and multiple kinds to exist, we will project that belonging into our culture more easily because we will see that everything does belong here.
00:37:34
Speaker
I love that. That is, yes. So many, so many thoughts came into my mind. Okay. So the first thing is like, here we go. Here we go. Let's go. Let's unpack it. I'm ready for it. Um, the first thing that came to mind, this is just a fun little aside. Did either one of you watch a show? I don't know. It was on one of the premium cable stations, the United States of Terra.
00:38:00
Speaker
No. Okay. It's pretty old, but basically it's about a woman. Oh, what is her name? Super famous actress, Tony. Last name I can't come up with right now. I don't know. We'll put it in the show notes. It's a great show. But anyways, she is a woman with multiple personalities and literally it's just a metaphor for exactly what you just said. The fact that we all have these different disparate parts of ourselves
00:38:27
Speaker
And one of the things that I've taken away from that show that I love is like, she literally has these like inner meetings with all of her different personalities to be like, listen, 16 year old version of myself. You can't be going out here like screwing around with all these guys. We need to like take care of the kids this week. I'm going to be, you know, so it's like, she's having these inner conversations with all of these pieces of herself. And I do that.
00:38:53
Speaker
Like I think we all should, like sometimes you just have to have a conference, you know, and just be like, how do we feel about this thing? You know, so there's that piece. But then, um, the other thing that I loved about what you said, so many, like I'm pulling back from earlier in the conversation, but essentially just the fact that we all get to be complex human beings.
00:39:18
Speaker
And by expressing ourselves as complex and by acknowledging that we all have these pieces, it gives permission to the folks in our community to do that as well. But then that brings me to this question. Considering the fact that I think at least everybody in this room understands that it's all made up, like the way that this world works is just, it's all fiction that we've just made up over time.
00:39:48
Speaker
What is it that compels society, I guess, to keep creating these boxes in this richness? Because it's like, it doesn't have to be that way. Why do we make it that way? Like, I just, it boggles my mind. I don't get it. I have so many thoughts on this.
00:40:09
Speaker
I think we exist to make meaning.
Societal Structures and Reevaluation
00:40:14
Speaker
I think like you said, nothing matters. It doesn't really matter. I think everything matters and nothing matters. And that's the beauty of life is those things literally coexist. So what you get to do with it is your choice. And it's freely fucking vulnerable, going back to Mike from the beginning, to just exist.
00:40:36
Speaker
without those things, with just being. We create those things so that we can find some semblance of safety. I remember a couple years ago I listened to a podcast, I think it was maybe Being Well with Dr. Rick Hansen, but it was like if you walk into a room and see a couch and you don't know what a couch is, you might be terrified.
00:40:58
Speaker
Because you don't have some semblance of idea, right? It could be a fucking bomb, like you just don't know. And the interesting thing is our brains respond to completely new with fear. And that's a natural instinct to protect us. So the important thing is to have some kind of meaning or someone supporting in that process and being like, no, this is a couch. It's actually pretty great. Go sit on it. You're going to love it.
00:41:28
Speaker
But we don't know that at first. And I think the meaning that gets made by one person is just easier to accept by others than the vulnerability of going up and poking at ourselves and being like, is it OK? You know what I mean? We just are tired, I think. And there's so many ways that our brains try to skip steps in the day to just save us time.
00:41:57
Speaker
I think perhaps, like you said, one day, maybe we won't need those things. Maybe we won't need so many, but I like to think that's what we're evolving into. It's just going to take some time because the polyamorous way or the vulnerable way or the I'm here as a human with all of my neediness and weird desires and needs and wants are just going to exist.
00:42:23
Speaker
Yeah, I also, I think that we're starting to understand that, you know, if you go back in history, right, before we as a species, right, when we were first evolving, we were definitely more community-based. We relied on each other when there wasn't money involved, there wasn't capitalism, capitalism wasn't a thing. You look back at that,
00:42:51
Speaker
even during, you think about the Roman times and stuff like that, where it's like, yeah, there was an economy, but also things like art, things like creation were upheld or just part of the human experience. I think that we have just, it is, we're evolving, but I think we're also realizing that we took the wrong,
00:43:18
Speaker
made the wrong exit. Right. And I think that the pandemic has been a huge multiplier for a lot of people, a huge kind of like double down realization of like,
00:43:38
Speaker
Oh, God, what was I doing? What are we doing? It was the first time our society just stopped. So many things changed during that. I can't tell you how many relationships ended, how many people lost, how many different types of jobs. It was the first time that we just
00:44:07
Speaker
We physically had to stop. And I think that that has been a catalyst for so many people in terms of like, what do I want out of life? These things aren't working for me. And so as horrific as it's been as an event and how awful we have
00:44:33
Speaker
responded to it. It's a whole other conversation. I think that because I don't want to minimize that, but I think it's important to understand that it has created
00:44:43
Speaker
I think that the COVID-19 pandemic, if we look back, when we look back as a society and historically, it is going to be a pivotal moment in how we as a society view life. We view the things that we're doing because it has, it forced us to stop that whole like, take the time, right?
00:45:07
Speaker
so many people learned how to bake bread. We did these silly little things to try to keep us busy and not thinking about it, but we were alone with our thoughts for the first time collectively as a society, but we were still connected virtually, which was a new avenue of like, oh,
00:45:31
Speaker
We can, how do we, okay, how do we navigate this? And so I think what you said is really important. I just want to make sure I'm not taking too far of a right turn here in terms of the conversation, but I think that, you know, it, we do the evolution. I think part of the evolution is also understanding that.
00:45:52
Speaker
fucked up. How do we get back to our roots as a species? How do we nurture the things that we as a human experience? How do we get back to that that's less about the fake stuff like money and patriarchy? And how do we get back to community? And
00:46:17
Speaker
nurturing and growing, right? And creating. We are creative beings. But we can't, so many people can't be creative because people are trying to survive. And so how do we create a society where people can
00:46:36
Speaker
feel, be supported, and to be able to create. Yeah, so many thoughts. When you're saying we fucked up, I'm thinking of a branch of evolution. We've been around a while, like humans.
00:46:57
Speaker
this entire patriarchal journey could just be a branch that dies. Like it very well could be that this is just something that is going to have to die and then it's going to be like, it could just be, well, that didn't work. Let's try a longer beak this time or whatever, you know, like it didn't work. And we got some things from it just like every evolutionary study. And
00:47:23
Speaker
It's so interesting because you're right, now we can do something else. Now we can build a world. And I think the incredible thing that the pandemic did was that slowing down. It gave us a chance to dream, to imagine a world, to say, what if, wouldn't it be nice if? Or as Dan Levy says, wouldn't it be sweet?
00:47:47
Speaker
you know like wouldn't it be sweet if we had a world that was caring and where we cared about all people like i think if enough of us are dreaming this then it's possible i you know i grew up in the abug's life era and so i believe in the power of the ant and the power of the many right like we like
00:48:14
Speaker
just felt that in our bones, the story of the liberation of a people because they stood together. I think that story is pretty descriptive of our generation and generations below. We are starting to know our power. We're starting to know the power of our vulnerability in a way that other generations have not had access to. I think it's going to take us somewhere.
00:48:42
Speaker
You know, I think it's so interesting though, because ultimately what this comes down to is that we have to be a lot of things all at once. And that's really hard. And, you know, so you're speaking about, well, so Mike, you were talking about like the communities of your, and I feel like part of the
00:49:07
Speaker
Part of being in that community was knowing your place and having your role in society. And on the one hand, it's beautiful because that's a clear purpose. You've got a small group. You know where you have to step up. And on the other hand, it's a container. And it is kind of putting yourself into a box, potentially. And now we're talking about knowing yourself and finding those nuances of self
00:49:36
Speaker
And I think for a lot of us that creates stress because it's like, well, what the fuck am I supposed to be doing on this earth? What is my purpose? What am I here for? And so having all of those things happening at once and dealing with the difficulty of that and dealing with the challenge of nuance and realizing that it's a vulnerable space to be in and allowing for that vulnerability. And to your point, Christina, I feel like finally
00:50:06
Speaker
we these generations are really starting to tackle that and we're you know imparting those lessons to the ones below us and it's it's creating some tension and some some stress and some change and that's scary because what the fuck is this couch i've never seen it before you know but it's that's where the beauty comes in
00:50:31
Speaker
Yeah, you're so right. It's such an interesting place to be because there's so much potential, so much possibility, and you're right. I think
00:50:46
Speaker
I think with technology that's just boomed in our lifetimes, we're trying to become a global society, and none of us knows how to do it. We don't have systems in place that support us to figure out what our place is in the world. That is not a thing that anyone else has had to deal with before. We now have access to news and stuff outside of our communities that we used to be in small community with. Now everything is connected, not only just a country, but the world.
00:51:13
Speaker
is impact we're realizing it's always impacted us we're realizing the impact of that and i the structure that's been in place of patriarchy is not going to work for a global society it doesn't work it hasn't worked and i think like there's just so many growing pains right now of like
00:51:35
Speaker
How do we do this? No one's ever done this before. Now we have technology. And when we're isolated even, now we have access to news. Now we have access. Now we have the possibility of doing something. And what does it mean to like both be a part of your individual community and like the global collective? That's also new. I mean, the Mycelial network knows it already, but we need to learn from them.
00:52:02
Speaker
Yeah. We have to learn the language of the fun guy and then we can... Yeah. This is turning into a very, this is us, or sorry, last of us. Yes. I always get those two titles mixed up, which are very different shows. Family drama or mushroom zombies. Same difference sometimes. Same thing.
00:52:30
Speaker
I do want to, and this has just been an incredible conversation. I feel I'm actually quite, I've been feeling very emotional throughout this, not in a bad way, just like my sense of self just feels
00:52:50
Speaker
is feeling the feels right now. So I've really appreciated the conversation and kind of where we've gone. I do want to kind of loop this in a little bit into money, a little bit, because we are a money podcast.
Challenges in Coaching and Financial Identity
00:53:07
Speaker
I do, in your journey, especially anyone that is listening, maybe feels
00:53:15
Speaker
very similar or on a similar trajectory as you. What have been some of the kind of challenges as you've navigated kind of the coaching
00:53:30
Speaker
career, how you've, with the rebranding, the, you know, this and that, what, how have you kind of like built yourself up in terms of the, the business? Hmm. Yeah. I love that. Cause money is, is a need right now, you know, money is, it is what it is. It exists. And like, I went a couple of years without a job being supportive through studying.
00:54:00
Speaker
for coaching and I didn't know what kind of emotional toll that took on me until I got a job. It's not like my basic needs weren't met, they were, but there's autonomy in getting paid. And it's very important, I think, to do work around disconnecting your worth from what you get paid and what you do. I think that's so critical and been critical for me and
00:54:28
Speaker
it is a need to have a livable wage. And I think holding both of those things is so important because when you work for someone, they don't own you. And I think we forget that because our
00:54:46
Speaker
Our system, the nine to five system, capitalism was literally built on slavery. That's where the ideas came from. So our idea of being the ideal worker and serving and going above and beyond, I always tell people, give 75%.
00:55:02
Speaker
You have 75% because you need at least 25 at the end of your day for you. You don't give 110% at work. That's not life. That is something you do. That is an outpouring of creativity or love in professional to live. It's feeding yourself and that can be truly beautiful. Go ahead. So it's funny you should say that because a lot of times, one of our
00:55:32
Speaker
Some of our guests are sex workers. We do bolster that community. Bevin works with Black female sex workers.
00:55:46
Speaker
oftentimes there's the stigma, right? Of like, oh, well, you're selling your body. It's like, no, baby, we're all selling our body to capitalism just in different ways. So like, get that frame of mindset first before you turn around and judge that person because they've just decided to do it in a different way. You are also selling your body, whether it's, you know, back pain, whether it's, you know, like you are physically doing something to make money.
00:56:14
Speaker
And so we're all selling our bodies because capitalism. So it's super important that people understand that because this whole like, oh, well, you know, get a real job.
00:56:26
Speaker
First of all, and it's funny you should say that about giving a certain percentage. I'm going to be blatantly honest, literally this week has been awful because I have a part-time job where I work at a fitness gym because it comes with a free gym membership.
00:56:48
Speaker
more and more this part-time job is becoming more and more stressful because the lack of management, the terrible management, the toxic culture that's being kind of pushed, I do closing shifts. So I'm there, we close until we're open until 11.
00:57:09
Speaker
I have a checklist. Originally, when I was hired, it was like, you're scheduled until 1130 to make sure you get the checklist done. They're now saying, you need to stay until 1130. I clocked out at 1115 on Wednesday, and I got a message the next morning from my boss to say, hey, make sure you're staying until 1130. And I said,
00:57:34
Speaker
Okay. What, you know, what was missed, you know, what, what didn't, Oh no, you know, there's just always more stuff that can be done. And I'm like.
00:57:43
Speaker
Got it. I'm going to the next day when I closed, I stayed until 1130, but I just did the same amount of work. I'm like, I am not getting punished for being efficient with the work that needs to be done. Which is wild because we're hourly. So the fact that I can get it done 20 minutes faster and save the company money is being punished. Is being told, no, you need to stay until 1130. Got it. I will stay until 1130.
00:58:12
Speaker
and I will make sure that the work that I do is great, but I am not going above and beyond. That's just, I'm sorry, like if I'm not going to get, and that happens so much, efficient workers, great workers get punished with more work, right? And
00:58:33
Speaker
I'm sure so yes i one hundred percent agree with that you do you make sure that you're taking care of yourself you get the work done you do what needs to be done but going above and beyond.
00:58:48
Speaker
It only does not benefit you. It really doesn't. No, it doesn't benefit anyone else either. Not in the long term. I like I don't do sports, but I think about this in a sports analogy because I feel like it makes a lot of sense. Like if you have a like a football player or something has an injury, right? You want them to recover.
00:59:11
Speaker
It might take a little bit of extra therapy or whatever, but if you just put them right back out there and you're like, no, look, they can still play. Keep going. You're going to have less of a good player in the long term. But capitalism is so productivity right now that it treats people like machines. And it's like, well, we'll just get someone to replace them when they burn out.
00:59:37
Speaker
And it's so inhuman in that way. I love the whole movement of just working to your shift, doing your job. Because it's like, what have we been doing? What have we been doing that's like, we're just like, I need to do more. And I need to do it, which is so the trap that I fall into. It comes back to boundaries, right? Oh, yeah. So I have been such a big stickler with my manager of, tell me what needs to get done.
01:00:06
Speaker
and I will get that done. And I will make sure that it gets done in that time. I do not subscribe to, oh, there's always more that that can be done. No, you tell me what needs to be done. You are the manager. I will work and get that, and I will make sure that that stuff gets done.
01:00:24
Speaker
1000%. But I am not doing like, you know, other people's jobs, or things that that no, like, I'm that is not I will not do that. I will not subscribe to that. I will not put myself through that. And then I hope we'll make sure that other people do the same.
01:00:44
Speaker
Yeah. And that, I mean, that's, that's the job. Like, unless you're a manager, you're not supposed to be coming up with more things to do. Like that is not it. I had a very similar situation. I almost got fired. I quit like right before I was going to get fired where I was a teacher's assistant and she was very upset with me because I did what she asked and not more.
01:01:08
Speaker
And that was not enough. She's like, well, I just expected you to take initiative and do this. And I was like, okay, you expect me to read your mind? Like, I don't do that. I'm sorry. But it's the same thing. It's just like we are expected to act like
01:01:27
Speaker
to work twice as much so that we can be like, oh, this person is a good employee because they act like a manager, even though they're like not. It's called exploitation. Yes, yes. Yes. Again, this is rooted in slavery. So why are we surprised? Yeah. Pretty much is the like workers throw down your tools, right? So it's like it doesn't
01:01:54
Speaker
There's no way to affect this change unless, as you said, this movement of people doing their jobs. It's almost comical that the revolution is people being like, I'm going to do what I was employed to do. But it is, it's so important for everybody. It can't be the one person at the company, it's like everybody has to say,
01:02:22
Speaker
I'm gonna go home now. I'm going to have a life now. To your point, Christina, I'm going to give you some of my energy, not all of it, because I am also a human being and I deserve to own part of myself,
Resistance to Hustle Culture
01:02:37
Speaker
you know? Yes. It's the idea of giving 100% to the task, right? You want to, like, obviously you don't want to be, you don't want
01:02:51
Speaker
If you have a job, you're going to do that job, right? Like that is, I think that that's an important distinction where it's like, give what you can give to that position. But outside of that, you shouldn't be giving more, you shouldn't be giving more than you can give. Right. I think that's, that's an important distinction. It's like a hundred percent of the job isn't necessarily you giving a hundred percent of yourself.
01:03:18
Speaker
Yeah. And I think this is important for like overachievers to hear with like, because my sister and I talk about this a lot with her just finishing up grad school. It's like you, she can re-edit her paper five times and she could, but like she doesn't actually need to.
01:03:36
Speaker
You know, she can give 75% and still get an A or B. Like it's, it's possible. And then she has time to like, you know, pet her doc. And it's like, she still did it. She did excellent, but she doesn't need to do the 25 extra edits to make it perfect. Yeah. We all have so much unlearning to do. It's very good.
01:04:04
Speaker
Yay. Have you heard of Trisha Hershey? Hershey? That sounds familiar. What is her thing? The Knapp Ministry? Yes. Okay. Yes. Yes. It's funny too. We actually just talked a little bit about that in an episode earlier today. So yes, continue. Awesome. I think about her in the movement about rest and especially around work.
01:04:35
Speaker
Comical to me in some ways in so important like the revolution is around Resting, you know, it's it's like just having the audacity to Not kill yourself for somebody else's productivity, you know, it's it's a wild new concept and it's so important for more people to take it on one last thing we've been talking for a while, but I do just want to mention this so my mom who is approaching 70
01:05:05
Speaker
has been retired for several years and I'm proud of her for that. And also every single time I talk to her, she's like, yeah, I'm just trying to figure out what I'm going to do next. And it's, I'm just, I'm like, what do you need to do mom? Like, like what do you want to do? And she has, you know, got her real estate license and she's like, I'm going to put
01:05:29
Speaker
a painting studio and I'm gonna find things at thrift stores and upcycle them and sell them on the internet. And I'm just like, it's just, it boggles my mind because she cannot get this hustle culture out of her soul. It's this feeling that she has to be productive. She wants to make money. And it's not even just keeping busy. She truly feels like anything she does next
01:05:57
Speaker
doesn't have value unless she's earning money from it. And I've just, you know, on the one hand, I'm just like, I'm giving her grace, she will find it on her own, hopefully. But on the other hand, I'm just like, Mom, let it go. You know, like, it's like, you did the thing. You're done. And
01:06:20
Speaker
There's so much I'm learning to do. We give boomers a hard time, but God bless them. I think they got the worst of it. They just were pummeled with that American dream, and now we're all having to break away from that as much as we can. They were the start of that exit. Yes. Where you think, oh, this is where I'm supposed to go. And now we're at the point where we're like,
01:06:48
Speaker
This is, I don't remember, I don't remember being here. Google, please reroute me, rerouting, rerouting. Oh, we printed out, no, we're, we didn't, we don't have Google yet. No, there's a MapQuest. MapQuest printed out direction, so we really don't know where we're going.
01:07:09
Speaker
Oh my God. I feel like it's such proof that you're describing that your mom did the thing and she still has a hard time relaxing because I think all of us watched that and went, oh, even if I do the thing, there's never an end to this unless I start now.
01:07:31
Speaker
Well, Christina, thank you so much for being here. This has been incredible. Before we sign off, where can our listeners find you? Yeah, I'm at ChristinaMCarlson.com. Great.
01:07:50
Speaker
Any social media or is it all, is it all there? It's there. I'm on Tik TOK and Instagram. I can send you the links. I have put them in the show notes. It's all good. I've been on there a little less than normal, but like I do things like this because I really like having conversations. So if anyone like actually DMS me and wants to talk, that's like what I like. Awesome. Great. Awesome. Thank you so much.
01:08:16
Speaker
Thank you for providing your insight, your journey. It's been really incredible to get to know you. Before we sign off, any last pieces of advice or things you want to leave our listeners with? Thank you so much for having me. First of all, this has been so fun. I've loved talking with you both.
01:08:39
Speaker
I mean, I think the wisdom that comes to mind right now is like your body knows. I don't think that there's like, I think that there's a big lie in self-help. It kind of stems from capitalism where it's just trying to keep us busy, trying to find a new or fancy or more beautiful formula because that actually hits our adrenaline button. But it's way more accessible than we think it is because it's found in us and it's found in community.
01:09:09
Speaker
Love that. All right. Well, thank you so much. And listeners, if you have any questions for Christina, you can reach out to us or you can slide into her DMS as well. As she said, you have consent to do so. So we love that. And yeah, we just thank you so much. This has been, been great. So thank you until next time. Bye.
01:09:49
Speaker
If you've enjoyed today's episode, please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe. That's the easiest way to support our show. We hope you took away a new nugget of information or perspective today, and we're grateful you took the time to listen to us. Until next time, bye. Bye.