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Season 2- Episode 12- Sarrie On (Champions Cup Round 1)
27 Plays6 years ago
Another long winded podcast from your favorite American Rugby chuckleheads is ready for you. We get a little deeper into the decision the Saracens made this week and what our overall view is up to this point. With luck, no having to talk about this will keep future episode shorter. We also talk a bit about some ideas for law changes to improve & speed up the game. Oh yeah, some tournament kicked of this past weekend. We recap all the action from the opening weekend of Champions Cup and preview this coming week's matchups. Kick back and have a listen FFS.
Have a question about your lineup on as the clock ticks down for game week start? Ask us questions via Twitter: Jarrod- jdyke8man & Ben- admrablsnackbar. Send us your thoughts for the show and questions for upcoming shows via e-mail fantasyrugbypodcast@gmail.com. Of course we welcome feedback via those methods or rating/reviewing the pod on Apple Podcast.
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Transcript
European Championships Round One Review
00:00:08
Speaker
Hey, how's it going, everybody? It is the Fantasy Rugby Yanks. My name's Jared Dyke. I'm Ben Glaser. And it's been round one complete of the European Championships and yikes. There's some staggering, pretty startling results and some pretty crap stuff considering the caliber it's supposed to be, but...
00:00:25
Speaker
You know, around one, you shake off the cobwebs a little bit.
Teams Regrouping Post-World Cup
00:00:28
Speaker
It's okay. Yeah. Teams are still getting back together after the other World Cup, especially, you know, a lot of these teams have significant players in them, whether they're from their home countries like the Irish and Welsh and Scottish and English sides and some that have it from other countries like the French side. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I'm ready for it. Ready for some some drink here. Hell yeah. Yeah, let's do that.
Podcast Promotion and Engagement
00:01:00
Speaker
As always, make sure you're checking this out on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify. Subscribe, rate, definitely subscribe at the very least. But we'd appreciate some sort of comment, rate, let us know how we're doing, let us know how bad we're doing. I don't know. It's up to you, I guess.
00:01:20
Speaker
Right, right. That was actually good. Good pour. That was perfect. Look at that. Yeah. Thank you, Harpoon. Yeah. Well done.
Preparing for the Premiership: Rugby Mag Upgrade
00:01:32
Speaker
So yeah, obviously we're not using Ruggy Mag right now, but... Yeah, you do. But they're great. They're great people. Yeah. Just, but they're, you know, it's around the corner guys. You got
00:01:40
Speaker
You got time to adapt yourself. If you go get yourself a rugby mag upgrade for the next round of premiership, which will be here before, you know, it's only two weeks away. I didn't think we'd be in the middle of champions cup of, uh, at the end of the walk-up so fast, but before you know it, bang, it's here. It's flown. Rugby time has flown by. It is here. So, you know, go get, go get yourself a rugby mag upgrade. You will not regret it. I promise. It's the cost of a beer. Yeah. Something to that fact. Beer or two.
00:02:07
Speaker
beer maybe a beer depending on where you're buying it yeah depends on what kind of beer you're buying that's true depends on how shitty your beer is i suppose yeah so you know maybe a beer maybe a couple beers but it's it you know it's worth it it's it's it's a lot more uh especially for the uh um
00:02:24
Speaker
Just the value of understanding even more about the game plus the you know, knowing who's starting just from a quick glance Just be like starting not starting. Cool. Don't need to go digging. Great. Thanks So yeah, go get yourself a rugby mag upgrade. You won't you will not hate it. I promise
Saracens' Salary Cap Breach: No Appeal Decision
00:02:42
Speaker
News and notes, so obviously the biggest bit of news is the Saracens have decided to not appeal their 35 point deduction and the whatever 5 million quid
00:02:59
Speaker
Fine, so in a natural way did put out a statement that I'm you know knowing what I know now and I think I said that the the Co-investments weren't the issue and obviously I'm terribly wrong on that because I whatever I read or I read it wrong, but let's go with the second one probably yeah, I Read it wrong. So but yeah, so the co-investments are we're part of the problem if that is and it sounds like it is
00:03:28
Speaker
In fact, the biggest thing that pushed them over the salary cap line, I have no shame whatsoever in being a Saracen supporter in that case, because, in my opinion, and I know I'm not alone in this, I, Nigel Ray was doing far more good than he was harmed with that.
00:03:46
Speaker
Was it probably, he said reckless and I know he quoted it, but still it's probably the accurate term. He was a little reckless. He probably should have been a little smarter about it. He's a smart man. He should have known. But in the end, I have no shame about it. We'll eat the 35 points. And I think Mark McCall, if you heard the interview, he did earlier this week.
00:04:04
Speaker
He just wants to get on with the
Impact of Saracens Penalties on England Rugby
00:04:06
Speaker
damn thing, right? I think it's helpful for the the player So we've seen the we're starting to see fallout from it now And and yeah, you just want it You don't want anything like this looming over the players heads and and and just it's another distraction So from a coaching perspective, absolutely
00:04:21
Speaker
Let's have an answer now rather than six or seven months from now. That's not helpful to anybody. So yeah, I agree with it. I agree with taking the hit. I still think that's excessive. And we now see, again, the fallout from the excessiveness of the penalty.
00:04:44
Speaker
Where I don't feel like I'm jumping ahead here No, we're now saris, you know There's rumors that Saracen's players and I'm guessing all of this was involved in the decision being made here was saying Saracen's players are going to potentially Skip six nations to play in the premiership to make sure that their club side doesn't get relegated. Yeah which so
00:05:07
Speaker
And there's a lot of back and forth over it, but my perspective on this is At some point we don't would and and the the thing that I think is is
00:05:18
Speaker
Devastating to a lot of non Saracens English rugby fans is that the Saracens are basically making England rugby. I mean we are we are we are just turning out in English England players left and right and not only that but like studs, you know, you look at some of these other clubs that may put up a player or two and you know, like luster Okay
00:05:46
Speaker
But yeah, they have players, but you're not like, oh, they're there. And I'm not diminishing other clubs like, you know, the Saints are putting up some pretty great players of their own. There's a lot of teams that produce very good players for England, but not nobody with the consistency and the high quality that
00:06:04
Speaker
the Saracens Academy has produced. So it's like you can't take the good with the bad or you can't throw out the good or throw out the bad and whatever. There's got to be some sort of- You can't have your cake and eat it too. Yeah, there you go. So yeah, you want Saris punished, but then it comes down to it, if they get demoted or relegated, what does that do for England rugby?
00:06:26
Speaker
At some point, you got to look at it with a bigger perspective than I hate Saracens and come at it with, okay, what's the best for the sport and the union as a whole? I would not be surprised, so knowing how things like this go, I would not be surprised if the last couple of weeks were a round of communications between Nigel Ray,
Saracens, RFU, and Player Negotiations: Six Nations Impact
00:06:46
Speaker
Mark McCall, the Saracens players, and Eddie Jones and the RFU to say, okay, what are we doing about this is the situation we're all in. We're all in this box together. We all need each other. We're all stuck here. We're all stuck here. We all need each other. We're on this island together, kids. How are we going to do this?
00:07:04
Speaker
And, and it may have been Eddie Jones saying, well, let's, you know, I'll, I'll take the six nations and we'll develop some other players, some other town. And maybe they'll give some of the younger sat and the other guys like Nick is equally or something like that are on instead of Maro toji. And so instead of having a starter as Maro toji, you have a reserve that's possible.
00:07:25
Speaker
Um, and and little things like that just to make sure that that Saracens preserve their uh, their status as a premiership club which preserves england status as a Yeah, you one of the top three or four nations in the in the world I can only imagine what a blow-up this would be if they were to get relegated. I mean fingers crossed they don't um, you know, we talked about the point minimums that they've put up before and They they they will I think they'll be okay um, obviously
00:07:55
Speaker
That's that's hopeful right at this point, you know there until they get into the at least black into the black Then we can't really say they're definitely gonna be okay, right? So but I mean coming back to a couple points like I know that there will be a
00:08:10
Speaker
This punishment will not appease Everybody by any means there'll be a good middle that it's everybody just says nother nods their head and says all right Let's get the fuck over this shit. Yeah, Saracen's fans won't be super happy that that's 35 points They would obviously want none, but you know, maybe it's 20 right and that so that's not happening there are some people on the other end of the spectrum that are out of their brain saying that the the title should be stripped and that
00:08:36
Speaker
you know, Saracens could be automatically relegated and all these guys need to go to jail or whatever, you know, something stupid. Yeah. So it's not going to appease everybody. So just this is what it is. This here's the punishment. You can't be going by the by the rule book and then throughout the rule book for punishment because you want to write, you know, so that's just not how it works.
00:08:57
Speaker
So, yeah, I think all this worked out fairly, especially if, you know, it works out with the I think it's right, personally, that the Saracens players skip the Six Nations to make sure that they just to make sure they don't get relegated. Well, I think that's the right option. You know, and I think I think an England game is like 25 G's in their pocket, but.
00:09:16
Speaker
In that here's a here's a couple things and then we'll move on um I think they I think some of these guys definitely feel a loyalty to this because this happened because Nigel Ray was trying to take care of them, right and For them i'm sure it feels like oh Man i'm set for i'm i'm probably set for life because of this But at the same time my club might be in a serious serious bit of trouble
00:09:40
Speaker
I they might feel like they owe it to the Saracens to say, you know what, we can bag England for a for a spring. You know, there's still a June tour, if I'm not mistaken, or a summer tour that will be coming. So, you know, there's that, you know, they don't need to in the Six Nations after the World Cup is it is usually a developmental one anyway. So let's let's pump the brakes just a tiny bit.
00:10:06
Speaker
I think, I think that they'll be okay. And I think England will be fine. They kind of finished as the wooden spoon chill out. Right. You know, listen, you finished second from bottom, not this pass on the one before. Just remember that. And you had all these guys or a lot of these guys. Okay. So just chill your boots. Um, I think that, I think that they feel a special loyalty to the, to the Saracens to take and to do what they can to save this club from going, going down.
Broader Implications of Saracens' Salary Cap Issues
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean you that's the thing you've ended up putting players in a position where their backs are up against the wall whether or not That was your intent. That's this is the reality. That's now in front of england rugby and the premiership and all that it's just not a good juxtaposition and you know It'd be one thing if it was a team and and look I really like what the bears are doing This year. I really and well the past couple years, um, but it's built towards this
00:11:05
Speaker
They have a couple homegrown players. They have a lot of bot talent. That's a far cry to me from, say, what the Saracens have done, which is build a... And I hope, for the bear's sake, that they're actually doing that, that they're developing, because it would... I think I like the... You're obviously like Pat Lamb. I like the way that they're operating.
00:11:22
Speaker
And I want this to be sustainable for them. But we're seeing how some of these other clubs don't have that sustainability from within their own ranks. This was a terrible error on the part of Ray.
00:11:41
Speaker
With the best intentions, but still it is what it is. He did something wrong. Yeah But that that's you can't just destroy that sustainability just for petty revenge No because of that no and and my last point is so let's you and I are used to NFL terms so think of it this way and he said in his statement to like they have an allotment for salary and it had nothing to do with these co-investments and
00:12:08
Speaker
and their allotment for salary was under the salary cap. So, for all you that are just like whiring about how much they got paid and they got paid so much more, no, they didn't. No, it's not the case. This was, you know, not a Claire Claire. It definitely was a little more than that. But, so for in layman's terms, what these players got paid for their game checks wasn't any different than what the guys across from them got paid. So don't even give me that argument. Throw it out, okay?
00:12:38
Speaker
I get it. Their total compensation was different. That's true. But in terms of their salary that's being paid to them to play rugby, it was no different than the guys that were across with them. So give me all those premiership titles and give me my three fucking European cups and stick it. Got it. I do like that. It's funny for the, I don't know if you mentioned it last week, the argument that all players took less to play for Saracens.
00:13:03
Speaker
You see that i'm coming from the NFL right in baseball You see it a lot like every every american in at least, you know, north american sport You see players taking less to play for certain teams because they were like, oh I want to be a part of that It's it's the the compensation isn't just oh, this is how much they're paying me The compensation is I get to play this game with this group of people within this, you know talent organization this developmental environment and all this stuff it's it's
00:13:29
Speaker
I mean, did you did you hear Big Jim? No. So he like he would you could hear in his voice how much he cared about the Saracens. Right. And he said, you know, and he said it. He said, listen, when I went to Montpellier, that was one million percent about the money. No, no questions asked to end a story. When I went to Saracens, I wanted to win. I wanted to win trophies. And he knew they were going to. He knew they were ready to.
00:13:54
Speaker
So he took probably what was far less money to sign up and be able to do that. And you know, we know about the whole players that they have that nobody wanted type of thing. And now that turned him into beast, you know, that's something we've already hammered into the ground. So listen, bottom line, they've taken the punishment.
Fantasy Rugby Strategies Amid Saracens' Turmoil
00:14:13
Speaker
Maybe it's not your favorite certainly not ours We're gonna call this in the middle of the road. Yeah, nothing's getting wiped away. Let's move. Let's move forward and see what happens Really? Let's focus on the important thing is my fantasy teams In both of our fantasy rugby draft leagues I filled my reserves with
00:14:35
Speaker
Like basically Saracen studs who were over at the World Cup right and I was like well It's kind of suck for for six nations for those players and now all of a sudden. I'm like wait a minute They have to play because they need the points yes, that's funny. Yeah, and you thought that there you go exactly let's look at the positives here
00:14:56
Speaker
That's it. That is the jackpot. All right. So, you know, unfortunately neither one of us watch the Baba's Fiji match, but USA Eagle big Ben Lambda got picked to be in the reserves for the Brazil match. That's excellent. For the for the Baba's Brazil match.
00:15:12
Speaker
So, I assume he's not the first eagle ever to be selected for the Babas. No, but like Sam Woo's played, AJ's played, like that's just a cleverest played for them. Okay. You know, it goes back. I'm pretty sure there was others that I just can't think of off the top of my head. All right, I'm just making sure because... Yeah, no. I mean, if he was the first ever eagle to be on the Babas, I'd be a little...
00:15:33
Speaker
more exciting. I love it. Listen, he played a hell of a tournament, but that'd be a question mark in my brain. But no, he is not. But good on him. He did have a pretty darn good tournament. He was hitting like a hammer over in Japan, so awesome. Awesome for Ben. Let's go to your coaching notes that you've come up with since the end of the round here. Well, it's more refereeing notes than anything.
Joe Marler's Comments on Scrum Penalties
00:15:59
Speaker
Fair enough.
00:16:01
Speaker
I saw Marler, Joe Marler had a very interesting point that got my brain all working. This plus a couple of the moners and the commentaries that we've heard about with all the box kicks and the caterpillar rocks. Anyway, Marler's comments about the Scrum really got the old hamster running on his wheel in my head.
00:16:24
Speaker
And what he he said that he tweeted out a comment that when when the scrums collapsed and Teams some scrums push anyway to try to earn a penalty out of it agreed And he's like that that's got to go. Um, it's cowardly. It's dangerous and he's right on every respect. It's it's It's cynical. Yeah, there's a lot dangerous. There's everything everything bad about it. This was what that is agreed um
00:16:49
Speaker
And then obviously the comments about the those those, you know, we're waiting for them to set up the kick and, you know, so let's start with the scrum. What I would like to see with the scrum is because there are a lot of teams that just keep that ball in the scrum unnecessarily and try to milk a penalty. And it just slows the fucking game down because you can go from one end of the field to the other without ever actually having thrown a fucking pass the way some of these teams operate where they can't even score.
00:17:17
Speaker
Try without throwing a pass because you can win a scrum penalty kick it down to the corner if I can get them all Get a penalty kick it even for you know Maybe deep back and deeper into the corner and then you know pick and go until you get over you can without me throwing a pass you can you can score that easily just by milking penalties kind of cynically
00:17:38
Speaker
What I would like to see, uh, around the scrum is, uh, as soon as the scrum half puts the ball into the scrum, he is in use it conditions. So he has five seconds to use that ball, which a unless, unless the scrum moves, unless they go for, so if you're, if you want to drive in mall for the five meter line, it's kind of like a mall, you know, if you, the malls come, come stop.
00:18:02
Speaker
Once time to use it dude. Yep, you know, I would like to see that that way, you know It's your responsibility to use that ball quickly And and get it out. Yeah Kill those scrum penalties that that Again, they're trying to draw a cheap penalty plus how many referees can actually properly officiate a scrum? Oh, you can count them on one hand right and you know every time there's a scrum penalty both sides have
00:18:26
Speaker
You know not every time but probably 75% of the time both sides should be able to point it and say but this this happened This you know this other you know it could go either way Let's eliminate that if it goes down fuck it We're gonna re-scrum or if you do something in such a way that you can't play that ball short arm to the other team
00:18:45
Speaker
There you go. You you fucked up. There you go You didn't you didn't clearly have a dominant scrum. So it's not your ball anymore. Yeah, give you that um Speed up the game make people focus on the right thing the scrum the support of the scrum and the set pieces are just to set up fucking rugby What a play we don't want to sit in the scrum for for 10 minutes while they fucking sort themselves out Yeah, no argument on
Debating Caterpillar Rucks and Game Speed
00:19:06
Speaker
me. Um, the other one is the is the this fucking caterpillar rucks and that that
00:19:11
Speaker
The the humorous one that exited did a couple weeks ago. Yeah, I mean I saw a couple this weekend too. Right so what I would like to see around that and I don't look I don't mind the kicking game I think it's and as long as it's used properly and and effectively and tactically Don't push to sleep here. Right which is and we'll get to a little bit of that later um but the um
00:19:33
Speaker
But there's also questions and marks around when the ball is out of the rock as far as if that ball's bouncing around. Did that bounce out enough for that to be out? What I would like to see is, in addition to the rule or the laws around the rock, where if the ball is further away than the tackled player's arm can reach, so out of his arm's length,
00:19:56
Speaker
That balls out, whether somebody, whether it's covered or anything, if that's out of his reach, balls out, fucking play it. That way you can't have that like 10 meter caterpillar run. Yeah, no, I like it. And it just speeds it up so that you want a box kick? Fine, take the fucking box kick. Don't take 10, 15 seconds to get this going. Let's play some rugby here. Agreed. So those are my two things that if we're going to really, I think that's more the direction that I think the game should go as far
00:20:26
Speaker
Um, more playing rugby. Let's, let's get more, you know, ball in action than, than not going anywhere. We have enough sports like American football and baseball. Stop go where like, you know, there's, there's just not enough action. Um, rugby is one of the sports that it's great, but man, you can, there's times where you can just stop paying attention to a game. You won't miss a thing. You won't miss a goddamn thing.
00:20:48
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I totally agree. It does. These caterpillar rucks do make me appreciate people that are able to just get the ball box kick without having to set that damn thing up. That's your 10. Yeah. Is that really the worst thing in the world? No, it's not. They just don't want people to avoid that. They don't want to give up the 10 meters and all that. But hey, that's that I think that would be a more entertaining game.
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah, I had no argument out of me, man. So, yeah, that's I don't argue with any of those. You know, we're not trying to things that can make the game better. Right. I'm not trying to be like, oh, it's at a nice player to the. No, I'm not doing it. Fuck out of here. Nope. No, no, no, no. I'm trying to do stuff that actually, you know, streamlines the game a little bit here. hefty. No, thank you. I'm out.
TFRY Updates: Stay Tuned
00:21:38
Speaker
uh airball um so there there um there could be some happenings with tfry in the near future um we there's been chatter it's and some people say speaking into existence i'm on the side of don't jinx the fuck out of it yeah i want to keep i want to keep that under my hat and under my and but you know so just pay attention to what's going on with us um you know if there's something big obviously ben and i are gonna drop it on twitter before we get to here probably but um
00:22:07
Speaker
We'll see what happens is it could be a while until we find out actual news, but um keep keep it on We could have some bit of fun coming up and it'll be uh, we're gonna be having a really good fun Keep watching this space. Yeah that one Do we do we play rugby this weekend Did we play rugby this weekend, I don't know was there rugby this weekend at all
00:22:31
Speaker
Oh, you mean the players? Yeah, yes, yes, there was there was actually rugby that was played. Yeah, let's let's let's talk about that.
Gloucester vs Toulouse Match Review
00:22:40
Speaker
I mean, there were some good matches as much as I shat on the round one, but there was this was one of them Friday night kickoff.
00:22:47
Speaker
Gloucester and Toulouse. Toulouse seems to like that part of England over there. They do. They had to put in a good performance. I will say this, and this was my match to watch, but obviously we both watched it. I will say this. Really?
00:23:06
Speaker
there was not a lot going on for Gloucester other than the two Joe Simpson tries. What I did appreciate, and I know you love this chart, I'm pretty sure you might have done something that you know what to it. The Playmakers, the Playmaker chart where the action was coming off of.
00:23:24
Speaker
And I did appreciate where the Gloucester was, was pretty darn even split. About 40% off 10, the other two had 30 of 12 and 9. I was like, wow, I like that. And Toulouse were just being really ugly and just playing it off 9 a lot. So at that time, Gloucester had the lead. So I was like, that kind of makes sense, but really
00:23:43
Speaker
Toulouse had a lot of the ball and just didn't do anything with it. So here's a stat that I would really like to see. And this game really triggered that for me. Again, something else that got the old hamster running on his wheel.