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Fashion, Money and Prestige: The uncomfortable truths
236 Plays1 year ago
On this episode, Eleanor and LD talk honestly about what your clothes say about you, their personal fashion journeys in the workplace and beyond, and the uncomfortable truths of professional fashion attire and those unspoken “rules.”
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Pretty Invested Media and this related information does not constitute professional or financial advice of any kind (including business, employment, investment advisory, accounting, tax, and/or legal advice). Advice from a suitably qualified professional should always be sought in relation to any particular matter or circumstance.
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Transcript
Introduction to Pretty Invested Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Pretty Invested. I'm Eleanor and this is LB. Presented by your favorite ex-finance bros. We talk about the money things you actually care about.
00:00:12
Speaker
Hey guys, welcome to Pretty Invested, where we talk about everything money from your favorite recovering finance bros. It's Elinor and LD, back into Miami. LD, how are you? I'm good. I'm in my Eat Bit Daddy hat. Eat Bit Daddy. You're in your Laura Piano hat. It's not Laura Piano, but it is unbranded. It's Memorial Day weekend. We're filming this probably way before we're going to release it. Yeah. But there was recently the Succession finale, and this is my Kendall Roy core.
Understanding EBITDA: Finance to Fashion
00:00:42
Speaker
in honor of our our favorite sad boy yeah but yeah we had a fun weekend yeah we did it was active yeah we went on a boat we're in Miami we were productive as well we did some some planning for the pod
00:00:59
Speaker
We had a little planning sesh. When was it? On Saturday. And then... Sunday was a break day. Sunday was a break day. We went on a boat for a little bit. Went to a little house party. We're like mostly recovered by now. Yeah. You went to the heat game. Oh I did! Yeah! She's like a sports girly. I wore this hat here too and people were staring at me like I was a psychopath.
00:01:24
Speaker
EBITDA is a finance term and we all know what daddy means in the culture. I was thinking about it as I was worrying it. It was like it's hilarious that like me as the VC girl like I'm like the person in finance that probably resonates with EBITDA the least.
00:01:41
Speaker
because we like do the least number of like number crunching. I'm like I'm not the person to be wearing this hat. So EBITDA just as a quick tangent stands for earnings before interest, tax, depreciation, and modernization. So if any finance guy ever says EBITDA basically it's profit. So there's revenue minus
00:01:59
Speaker
you know, all the expenses, tax depreciation, whatever. It's just like a well-rounded way of profit. Yeah. And the reason why for VC it doesn't make sense is because a lot of early stage venture capital businesses don't really have profit and don't really look at it as a metric. It doesn't matter yet.
Miami Style vs. New York Fashion
00:02:17
Speaker
To measure success. Yeah. Because you're just trying to grow. Yeah. But a lot of investment bankers really care about EBITDA.
00:02:25
Speaker
EBITDA, people say it in different ways. EBITDA, I don't know. EBITDA, I've heard EBITDA. Really? Yeah, like 40% of that was new information to me. Really? Yeah, well I used to be in finance and everything was about EBITDA, but it's basically just not just revenue, it's like profit, essentially. Yeah. But, all that to say, we had a fun weekend. It was good.
00:02:48
Speaker
I was like people watching on the boat a little bit it was funny to see how like everyone was expressing themselves in their outfits because it was like a group of people who I think most of us like knew each other tangentially through like another person but no one really like knew knew each other yeah we were on a boat with like between 20 and 30 people right yeah and friends of friends and
00:03:15
Speaker
Styles are all over the place people who are visiting people who have been Miami since like me since birth. Yeah, and then transplants and That's a derogatory term. Is it discussed yet? No, it's just don't like it when people call me a transplant. I'm like
00:03:32
Speaker
Well, you're just moving to a different city in the U.S.
Old Money vs. New Money: Fashion's Evolution
00:03:36
Speaker
But no, it's always interesting to analyze people's fashion in Miami, which is what we're discussing today. We're going to be talking about how you express yourself with your clothing and the different settings that you end up in.
00:03:48
Speaker
And I think Miami is particularly interesting because when you say we're going to Miami, you're not just packing to go to a city in America. You're packing for Miami. It's like the colors, the patterns, you know, so many girls were wearing like bright green, pink. You come, there's like an aesthetic. Yeah. And so when you, when you pack for Miami, it's different than packing for like
00:04:14
Speaker
Dallas. Yeah, Nashville. Milwaukee. You know, Miami has its vibe. And you try and dress Miami. And so there was fashion from all over. There are things I wear in Miami I would never wear in New York. Yeah, and vice versa. I wear a lot of things I wear. This is like a New York outfit, by the way. But I'm in Miami. So I think it's easier to do all black.
00:04:42
Speaker
It's a little hot, but. Yeah. I had to buy like a completely new wardrobe when I moved here. Yeah. It's funny. Like I was so excited to get like the tax break, like moving here from New York. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to save so much money. And then I was like, Oh, so like everyone here wears designer. In certain circles. Yeah. Okay. In Brickle and like the places that I end up going to Miami beach.
00:05:09
Speaker
Yeah. So it's like there's a little bit of peer pressure to like have something that's a little louder. Right. And like more logo heavy than like what you would wear in New York. True. Like the logo is hot. Yeah. Right.
00:05:26
Speaker
I don't know if Miami is statistically more new money than New York but people in New York definitely have more quiet luxury than Miami and so I had to buy louder clothes which some circles think is gaudy but here it's just like fun and vibrant. Yeah I know what you're talking about and I think that's such
00:05:49
Speaker
a topical point especially with you know the whole Sofia Richie wedding, the quiet luxury versus the like Gucci belt, the Louis Vuitton, all the logos. It's definitely more common
Investing in Accessories: High-End vs. Affordable
00:06:04
Speaker
in Miami than in New York. Yeah. It depends on your circle but
00:06:09
Speaker
as a little bit of a generalization. I think that's true. Yeah. So how do you feel about the whole like old money aesthetic? Do you feel like that's? I find it boring. I find it boring. Okay. Because I am new money. So it's like, this is my biased opinion, but like, yeah, there's something about like clean lines and like a really beautiful, like timeless aesthetic. Like I love how Sofia Richie dresses. Yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker
It's like the anti-Kardashian look. She's youthful, she's timeless, she is not wearing bodycon and like, I like that for like certain occasions. Like you could literally put her anywhere and she would just like fit somehow. Like she looks expensive. But you know the thing is everyone thinks she wasn't always like that. She wasn't when she was dating Scott Disick and she was, she dressed like a Kardashian and now she's done like a 180.
00:07:08
Speaker
I mean, I think there's something interesting to be said about women and how they change their aesthetic to fit their partner's social circle because I think that that's essentially what happened with her. I think also as you get older, your style changes. She's younger than us. Really? Yeah. Interesting. She's like 23. Okay, maybe not even. She's 23, no way.
00:07:29
Speaker
She's married at 23, okay. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe she's like 24, but she's younger than us. Okay, okay, got it. But stages of life, like she's now in her married, wifey stage of life, so maybe that's more than her like running around, LA just has freedom, can dress whatever she wants in her life. Yeah, but I don't mind logos. I like fun clothing, but it doesn't necessarily have to be like
00:07:58
Speaker
Gucci dress like I really like mixing high and low like I'll do like high-end accessories with like a cheaper outfit I think it's a really For me right now financially an irresponsible decision for me to spend on clothing That's designer
00:08:14
Speaker
Because that doesn't hold value as well as some of the accessories. Accessories are more likely to be investment pieces. Yes. My gay bestie in college told me to invest in sunglasses, shoes and jewelry and watches.
00:08:29
Speaker
Because, yeah, maybe you're, what was that? It was super popular, like the little Prada shirt with a little, takes up a little Prada. Maybe that won't be in anymore, or the Gucci belt won't be in, but. Like that diesel top now. Yeah, but then there might be, or it's in for like two seasons, or then you've worn it and everyone's seen you wear it, but my jewelry, I don't really take it off. It's usually the same thing. Agreed. So wear per use.
00:08:55
Speaker
is more valuable. Like that's a good investment piece. If you're gonna... Yeah, that's a really good point. Like accessories you wear more often. Yeah.
Fashion's Influence in Professional Settings
00:09:03
Speaker
Like I probably only rotate between like two day bags and like three night bags. Yeah. And I've had them for years. Yeah. Because you can maybe buy more dresses, but how many times are you gonna wear it? Yes. And it's hard sometimes. I have like stunning dresses.
00:09:20
Speaker
But the occasion isn't right for it, you know? I did invest a lot in my work wardrobe and my staples for that reason.
00:09:29
Speaker
the whole idea of a capsule wardrobe is nice. All your work clothes are similar tones and they all work really well together. I think that's really smart. Yeah. I think I've managed to find a lot of pieces that mix and match pretty well together, like the fabrics work. Something that you said that I thought was really interesting is, for me, if everything's neutral, they all match with each other.
00:09:55
Speaker
And it's almost easier to do the whole old money fashion aesthetic, because, yeah, it's just neutral. It's not hard to pair black with black and black with white, but to how do you make a bright pattern pink top work? Yeah. You know, so it's almost, for me, easier to just be like, I'm gonna pair my neutral with my neutral, or wear all my all white outfit with clean lines and no designs, because it just goes with everything.
00:10:22
Speaker
I've been thinking a lot about how Sofia Richie's aesthetic is like more economically viable than like a newer money aesthetic because you can replicate a Sofia Richie outfit by shopping at Aritzia.
00:10:38
Speaker
And I don't think Aritzia is affordable, TBH, but like you can invest in these like long term pieces, like a really good wool pant or like a really great blazer. Like these are all things that are thriftable because they've been replicated over the decade. So it's like, if you're smart about it, you can get really great value, high quality staples. And that's more like,
00:11:05
Speaker
It's not recession core but it's like recession core-esque in a way that like the new money aesthetic that was really really popular like 18 months ago is not. Like back then it was like okay if I want the YSL heels with like the little YSL at the bottom but I can't afford them I'm gonna get them on DH Gate.
00:11:25
Speaker
And now it's like okay, like I could just go on the real real and shop like vintage theory I think that's a really good point I do think that there is something nice to buying the loud fun time. I don't feel Excited when I walk out the door when I wear my all-black outfit. Yeah, sometimes I do sometimes it's a cute fit and
00:11:44
Speaker
But if I'm wearing like my bright pink floral top that maybe I spent a little bit of money on, it makes you feel a certain way. You know, fashion I think empowers you. So I think sometimes when you walk in Miami and you're wearing yesterday, like, you know, wear this like stunning scarf top, you know, and, you know, you feel better than just wearing a black t-shirt. Yeah.
00:12:05
Speaker
you know so sometimes it's good to every once in a while indulge yourself yeah yeah to buy something that like really resonates makes you proud makes you feel confident yeah you know it's like armor it's armor and even sophia richie she was able to completely rebrand herself
00:12:23
Speaker
based on the way that she changed how she dressed, how people perceive her. I'm sure she's evolved and matured as a person, but it's not to say that she's a completely different person than she was, I don't know, well, two years ago or three years ago? Yeah, like two or three years ago. I mean, she's still her, but fashion transforms the way you're perceived. It transforms how you feel about yourself when you walk out that door knowing, I look fly, you know? It gives you a sense of confidence. Yeah.
00:12:53
Speaker
And not to be too materialistic, but I do think there's a power to the way that fashion can make a girl feel. It's the whole, one of the big themes in the Devil Wears Prada, where you're like, oh, who cares about fashion?
00:13:10
Speaker
It can make a woman feel beautiful, feel like art, feel confident, the way she's perceived. Maybe you want to be perceived as new money, maybe you want to be perceived as old money. How does that make you feel confident in a different room? I agree. I think where I've developed a more complicated relationship with it was in learning that
00:13:31
Speaker
it really does communicate very different things than what I think it's giving sometimes. Okay, explain. We were talking about succession and there's like that line that's gone viral with like the capaciously large bag where cousin Greg brought this girl to the party and it was like embarrassing because she was obviously like not old money and she didn't know how to act around old money people and she brought a big bag and it's like, okay, so what?
00:13:59
Speaker
Yeah, and it was a Burberry bag. Yeah. It was a nice bag. And Tom was like, what the fuck is she doing with that bag? Like, she like pack her lunch in there. Like, a capaciously large bag. Did she leave it like on the subway floor? He made like some like snide comments about that. Yeah. So like where it's gotten complicated for me is like I have been the girl that like brought the capaciously large bag or wore like
00:14:29
Speaker
the overly extra shoes that were like patent leather when like they should have been suede or the heel that was too high exactly when you find yourself in circles where there is very much a judgment of you're doing too much and clearly you're new here and clearly you don't know the rules coming to terms with like the fashion rules of
00:14:50
Speaker
high society and like societies that I didn't grow up in as like an immigrant. I was like, okay, so I can't really just like wear what is vibing with my personality today. I now need to really treat this as armor and be strategic about what I'm wearing so that it makes the conversations that I would like to have in like a business sense or like a networking sense smoother.
00:15:17
Speaker
In an ideal world, it wouldn't matter. Exactly, but it does. But it does. And I think this episode, we're going to lay out for you what you should wear to work when you're right out of college to fit in. There were certain rules that someone had to tell me, like, pull me aside and say, hey, you can't wear... Okay, example, I had the Stuart Weitzman over-the-knee boots. Oh my gosh, so cute. I know exactly what you're talking about. They're super cute. And I would wear them with a long skirt, but someone said, you can't wear that here.
00:15:44
Speaker
I was like, but I'm fully covered. They're like... Wait, who said that? And actually another analyst. Oh my god, you wore them to work and he was like, you can't do that? She said... She's? She said she was like, girl...
00:15:57
Speaker
She said, you can't wear that to work. OK. I think she was looking out for me. Yeah. But it's an ideal world. It doesn't matter. I'm covered up. What's wrong with that? Yeah. They're designer shoes. They're nice. They're not super high heels. They just happen to go over the knee. Yeah. And I love them. And I spend a lot of money on them. So I want to get my wares. And it was cold in New York. Like, I'm glad she told me, rather than my MD thinking that in the back of his head. Yeah. And then judging me for it. Yeah. Yeah. I get it.
00:16:26
Speaker
Yeah, so for instance, the whole Greg thing and succession. Tom, because Tom is also I think new money in the show. So he's hyper aware about that. He's hyper aware. So I know that stuff. And maybe Logan wouldn't be so appalled to see that bag. But it's a bias and a slight judgment that he makes on her.
00:16:52
Speaker
And so sometimes it's almost nicer to have someone pull you aside and say, just so you know, people are in the back of their mind thinking that. Not on the way Tom delivered it and talking mad shit behind this girl's back. But I think this episode we want to talk about, here are the rules, because it isn't this ideal world where you can wear whatever you want to work,
00:17:19
Speaker
and you won't get judged and people will just be accepting.
Luxury Brands and Career Perception
00:17:23
Speaker
There is social norms. You have to learn by someone telling you that. Are there other instances where maybe someone didn't say something to you necessarily, but you felt like, oh, I...
00:17:36
Speaker
either feel weird about the fact that I wore this because something happened or maybe like something I'm wearing is like totally different from what everyone else like somehow got the memo and I didn't. I think I was a little bit more well prepped than others so I always
00:17:56
Speaker
aired on the side of caution where I would wear basically a long white button down and a skirt, like a moderate skirt, decent kitten heels, you know. Every once in a while I would wear a pink coat to show my personality and sprinkle it in. The one time my friend told me about those boots, I think she was probably overreacting. Yeah. But I never wore those boots to work again. And so I think
00:18:24
Speaker
I had the luxury of having older women who had been there longer or had been in my position tell me that. Or I looked it up or I asked before him, you know, what's appropriate. You can ask HR. It's not that you have to seek out special advice, but
00:18:38
Speaker
I also worked for a bank and it was be modest, don't show too much skin, your skirt is basically school uniform rules for the cast. Yeah, the skirt that I always wore went to my lower calf.
00:18:57
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Yeah, I mean I had a little bit of a slight slit for the fashion. Yeah. It's like you're so petite, like that's way too big for you. Yeah, like long shift dresses. And the unfortunate thing is I now work in tech. No one wears that anymore. I have a closet full of this wardrobe that I'm never going to wear out. I have three black dresses with slight variations and now they're just sitting there in my closet. Yeah.
00:19:25
Speaker
And I think maybe even...
00:19:28
Speaker
In a lot of industries, the culture is moving where women, since the pandemic, aren't required to be so conservative. You know, back when we were all on Zoom in our sweatpants and the pendulum swung the other way. And people were like, wait, I like this. I'm gonna keep dressing in more comfy pants, you know, rather than the tailored ones. Yeah, what was your unspoken fashion rules at your tech job?
00:19:57
Speaker
I mean, it was a tech job. So it was more lenient. There weren't very many. I kind of just like followed suit from my manager who was a woman, thank God. And she would show up to work like looking professional, but casual. Like we could wear shorts to work if they were like covering like the things that they need to cover. Like we didn't have to wear silk blouses to work or anything. If you really wanted to wear jeans and a t-shirt to work, you could.
00:20:24
Speaker
but in my first few months of being on the job where I was like, okay, this is my first big girl job, I did experiment a little bit with how do people treat me if I show up looking a little bit more casual, and how do people treat me if I show up looking more professional than anyone else, because it's a predominantly engineer-heavy team, and so the devs obviously didn't really put too much thought into their outfits. I was one of the only women on the team,
00:20:54
Speaker
and so I was like okay let me try to be if not like the most polished looking person maybe like the second most polished looking person you never want to be like the one that does the most or if you do actually I think that's bold and like I respect it a lot and thank you for paving the way for the rest of us to be more bold I just felt like uncomfortable being the first because I was like you know like 22 figuring out
00:21:17
Speaker
my personal style at work and I really felt like I started being added to more relevant meetings and I was elevated a lot in that job and I don't think like it had to do with like my outfits, but I think like you do communicate something when you look exceptionally polished. Right.
00:21:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think being polished, another point that I was gonna mention, I never wanted to be sexualized, so I was notorious for wearing a short sleeve turtleneck, black turtleneck, a la...
00:21:52
Speaker
Steve Jobs, Elizabeth Holmes, it just worked for my aesthetic and I would never accentuate or wear too tight fitting skirts. I think partially it was for me to not be self-conscious that someone was thinking about me in a certain way. So I would maybe be a little bit more fashion if I were to experiment, but for me I wouldn't experiment with a too low cut of something.
00:22:22
Speaker
And it's up to you to perceive what you're comfortable with. I work primarily with men who are older than me, so I just didn't really want them to view me as an object. And also women can judge you too, being like, oh, why is she showing off her chest? Like, how dare she be more daring than me? Like, I would never wear that.
00:22:44
Speaker
Yeah, people would say that stuff and think that and you would feel it and you don't want to feel self-conscious. Even now, I think I try and dress a little bit more boyish. Sometimes I'll wear vests all the time. Really? But I think vests are in right now. I've never seen you in a work outfit. I'm like dying to see you in a work outfit. It's, to be honest, not that different from my current outfits. You should post them to TikTok.
00:23:07
Speaker
Maybe. It's not that different. Just maybe slightly more conservative than what I usually wear. I think as you also feel more confident, you earn more of a right to wear what you want. When you're first out of college, you're too scared to be pushing the envelope and you just want to fit in and be accepted. I think I'm a couple years of my career. Fashion does mean something to me and so
00:23:35
Speaker
I'm a little bit more bold in my fashion these days. I'm definitely not gonna wear a shift dress and if someone on my team said something to me, I probably push back and say, wait, why? Like, what are you getting at? But do whatever's comfortable to you. I feel confident right now. Maybe I do push the boundaries. I wear these... I actually wear my Stella McCartney sneakers to work. Really?
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah, they're like these like platform sneakers. I love them. It's because I work with all men and if I'm gonna wear sneakers, I want to be tall. I don't want to be wearing flats and then having to look up at my success rate boss all the time. Oh my gosh, yeah. And so that's a little bit edgier than most people, but I get compliments and...
00:24:17
Speaker
You know, I don't think it's terrible and I feel confident in it. So you're definitely edgy Like I think when I first met you I was like, oh she's like like she knows who she is and she like expresses it with her aesthetic like Yeah, one of the first things that struck me about you. I was like, she knows who she is I don't remember what I wore when I think I thought the same thing about you. Really?
00:24:37
Speaker
You were definitely, we met at a conference side event in Miami. Yeah, it was like a breakfast. At a breakfast. I don't remember what you wore. I don't remember what I wore. But I remember thinking, oh, I vibe with that. Yeah. Yeah. That was like two years ago. But yeah, you kind of want to make an impression. Also, I think as you get more senior too, you want people to remember you. Yes. In good ways.
00:25:03
Speaker
Yeah and there's also the aspect of like you wear certain things and work settings to show how successful you've been. Right. Like with girls I primarily see it with like
00:25:18
Speaker
newer Chanel bags or like unique Chanel bags. You see it a little bit with jewelry. If people are like at top tier firms, they almost always are showing up in like a really great bag. A lot of them have guillard. Yeah, yeah. I like rarely will see a Kelly. Yeah, it's really interesting.
00:25:40
Speaker
We can kind of tear the luxury brands and work bags. And you have to be careful because you don't want to be that junior person who has a Birkin. And then I'll be working for. Yeah. All your bosses are jealous of your bag. So you maybe don't wear it to work. But if you're fine with it, you're fine with it. Typically what I see.
00:26:02
Speaker
These are just anecdotal for bags. I see a lot of Longchamp for junior people, maybe. I was a Longchamp girlie all the way. I still love my Longchamp. It's so light. It fits a lot. I prefer it to a lot of work bags. They last forever. Mine got me through college and the first two years of work. And they're decently priced and they're good quality. I'm a fan.
00:26:28
Speaker
And then I think people upgrade to maybe like a coach bag, or what's Tory Burch? Yeah, or like a Neverfull. A Neverfull. And this changes with each, you know, design season. Like I've seen like a Celine, if you're like MD level, because they're like a little smaller, you don't really need to carry as much. Yeah, versus when you're young, you have to be able to fit your laptop in it. Like it's not Tory Burch.
00:26:55
Speaker
What's the? Kate Spade? Kate Spade, yes. I had a Kate Spade bag when I was a junior banker and then eventually I actually moved back to my long-champ because it was just more functional and lighter. Now I actually wear, I wear a men's briefcase because of functionality. Really? Yeah. Oh.
00:27:18
Speaker
So if you ever see me at a networking event, I'll probably be rocking a men's Prada briefcase.
00:27:26
Speaker
And so yeah, starting with Longchamp, maybe Coach, Kate Spade, the people that maybe do Burberry, the capaciously large bag in succession, for instance, and then move up Celine, Louis Vuitton, the tote bag. These are large bags that can fit a laptop. The ones that women bring to work. And then I would say, a go yard. And maybe if you're really flashy, you'll do one of,
00:27:54
Speaker
the Hermes bags. I've never seen that in real life though. I don't think people wear it as being as a work bag. Yeah I also feel like you shouldn't wear that in front of your boss because it's like oh like I'm I'm gonna be doing like bonus calcs in a few months. I don't feel bad for the kid whose bag is worth as much as like as part of the bonus. Even if you're like in your early 30s because that's probably like where you are at that stage of your life if you're like wearing that bag to work.
00:28:22
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, like I just I Don't think it's like cool to be that flashy at work. It's like rain it in The funny thing is people probably say that about some of the things that we do I'm like pretty
00:28:43
Speaker
I think each person has their own level, right? Someone might say, oh my god, I can't believe she's wearing a product bag. Different people have different levels of what's acceptable or unacceptable.
00:28:57
Speaker
And this goes not just for bags. I see it for jewelry, right? There's the David Uriman, the Hermes clique-claque H bracelet that all the interns were wearing. And then they upgraded maybe to a Cartier bracelet. And then you upgrade again. And with watches? Oh, watches with men is such a thing.
Motivations Behind Luxury Purchases
00:29:20
Speaker
I've talked to some of my guy friends about it. And that...
00:29:24
Speaker
Range is huge because men's watches can go anywhere from sub a thousand a few thousand two Hundreds of thousands of dollars that is very flashy and I think men probably get a little you know proud about it yeah, I feel like if you're in sales and you're like meeting people a lot it is important to
00:29:50
Speaker
kind of show what you're capable of. It's like wearing your resume on your wrist. I get it. Another topic, that reminded me of selling sunset. Like if I was buying a multi-million dollar house, I don't know if I would love my real estate agent to be wearing Louboutins to the showing. Really? Okay, selling sunset is not real.
00:30:15
Speaker
It's not, no, no, no, yeah. Real estate agents don't dress like they're going to a fashion show, guys. I mean, even those agents don't dress that way. On day to day, they don't dress that way. I think it's for the show. Their job is sales in a way, so it still is that thing of like, OK, this person is really good at their job. They've sold a lot of houses. They're going to sell my house. I guess it's different if you're the buyer. The buyer says. You're going to upsell me, because that's how you've gotten all these things. To get a bigger commission. Do you really think this is?
00:30:42
Speaker
The lowest I can get it for? Or are you just trying to get a bigger condition? Yeah, it can totally be flipped, I get that. But also, I heard that the girls on Selling Sunset actually rent a lot of their jewelry. Oh yes, I mean influencers do this all the time. Because, okay, these girls are rocking Chanel necklaces, earrings, and rotating through, never repeating.
00:31:07
Speaker
And those are tens of thousands of dollars. And I'm pretty sure they use this service called Join Switch, Switch or something. Where you can
00:31:20
Speaker
It's like Rent the Runway, but for designer jewelry and bags. And I think that's what they do. And I'm sure as they've gotten more successful, these brands sponsor them. But people do that as well. And I was even considering it. Didn't make sense economically. I wear the same jewelry, but... Yeah. No, I've seen influencers use, it's called Vivrell. And they'll have referral codes where...
00:31:43
Speaker
You get like a lower rate or something, but it's expensive. It's like several hundred dollars a month I think it's like 300 or something like that which like if you add that up over the course of the year like That's $3,600 you can buy it by the bag. Yeah, I mean you can buy it
00:32:00
Speaker
I mean, but yeah, you could buy a bag that like appreciates in value Like there are styles that will appreciate for you that are like good investment pieces for that price I'm just like right like maybe for like a month or two if you're like going on vacation it makes sense But right and that and that all goes like what is the reason that people are doing this? It's because
00:32:21
Speaker
you can have a Chanel bag or for a year you can be perceived as someone who always owns lots of designer and maybe is richer than you are. You want the world to perceive you to be wealthy and affording all these things and you know why do we do that? It's maybe to see more success than we are. As you've progressed
00:32:45
Speaker
in your career has your desire to like how has your desire to flex fluctuated like has it gone up or down or does it not even depend on like where you're at in your career is it more dependent on like the economy or like where you're at in life so i think that my
00:33:07
Speaker
mindset has shifted. I think when I first entered into finance, I wanted the bracelet or whatever to show that I belonged. We talked about our backgrounds. My parents immigrated here. I didn't come from this luxury lifestyle when I was growing up. But then a lot of the women who I worked with in investment banking, they lived
00:33:28
Speaker
On the Upper East Side, they came from this. Their parents were investment bankers. They know this world. And so, they all wear the vamp-cliff necklace. And so, oh, I wear the vamp-cliff. I'm one of you guys. You know, that was maybe a little bit of my psychology when I reflect back on it.
Lifestyle Creep and Financial Independence
00:33:46
Speaker
Now, I think I'm a little bit, I'm definitely way more secure with who I am and my intelligence.
00:33:54
Speaker
my style. And like your deservingness to be in those spaces. My deservingness to be in those spaces. I don't feel the need to show you that I'm successful and I don't think I don't measure success just by money and how many designer goods you have. I don't really care how as much about how people perceive me or fitting in. I have my own style and I like that I'm a little bit edgier and I no longer work in industry where I'm trying to fit in as much. Yeah. My Van Cleef necklace for I think
00:34:22
Speaker
It was a birthday gift to myself over five years ago. So I've had it for a while. I can upgrade it. I can afford another or a bigger Van Cleef necklace, but I like it. It's just what I want. That size and color is my favorite one. Thanks.
00:34:37
Speaker
You have the same one. I have the same one. Yeah. I mean, that's why I got it. But I don't feel the need to upgrade my necklace. Like, people upgrade their phones, or now I should get a Bulgari necklace next, because that's the next step. I'm like, no, I've seen the Bulgari necklaces. I like mine better. This just suits my aesthetic. It's not about how much things cost anymore, because you can afford any of it. People buy a lot of designer goods, and they're kind of buying it not within their means.
00:35:07
Speaker
Yes. So I think when you're making a designer purchase, if you want to treat yourself, you should. But I think a good metric is, do I actually want this? Or is this going to be something I'm going to wear far into the future? Or is it just going to be something I'm going to wear for the season? Do I actually like this? Or is it just because it's what's in right now? Yeah. How do you feel about it? I agree with a lot of it, I think.
00:35:33
Speaker
I've definitely been way more conservative with my spending than most people my age, like from a very young age. What do you think that is?
00:35:47
Speaker
Because of how I grew up. Yeah, my parents were obsessed with saving Growing up so that like was very ingrained with me. They're very risk-averse So they never they didn't invest anything except for like what my dad put into his 401k. Oh, wow. Okay, they would
00:36:07
Speaker
I think they would just keep everything in the checking account. I don't even know if they like utilize the savings account. Right. Like they were just so afraid of everything so definitely like money scarcity habits is like big deep into my bones. Yeah. And I wanted to basically like create a cushion of safety for myself as soon as possible. So I like went into my first job and I would save 50% of what I made.
00:36:33
Speaker
Wow. Post tax in New York. Post tax. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I developed like good habits around that. But I also like always really, really loved clothes. So I was like great at bargain hunting.
00:36:53
Speaker
Yes. So Century 21, I think they only have them in New York. It's basically designer for less and it's like new, new designer. Like it's not like the real real or anything. It's like probably last season's clothing, but I would go in there with my mom from a young age and we would like go through like all the sales racks. So I saved really aggressively and I just look at all of my purchases as like, okay, like, do I really need this? Do I not really need this?
00:37:22
Speaker
That muscle weakened the less satisfied I was at work. Yes. Once I got to a point where I was consistently unhappy and depleted by my job and I felt like I wasn't being heard, like there was nothing satisfying about work.
00:37:48
Speaker
It's like retail therapy for you? It was retail therapy and I also no longer had respect for the money that I was making because I hated my job so much. Wow. And I almost felt like it wasn't meant for me or like, not that I didn't deserve it, I just had no value for like the income that I was making anymore because I hated my job so much. Yeah.
00:38:13
Speaker
So that's when the credit cards went up like 500% and I was like blowing through way more than I used to and shopping way more and being louder with my purchases and the things that I was wearing because I was so unhappy. It's a vicious cycle because
00:38:37
Speaker
I went through the exact same thing where I was working so hard and I had to sacrifice so much of my personal life. I didn't have time to go on vacation. I didn't really have time to hang out with my friends after work or even on the weekends. Missing birthdays. And so I had to justify it of, well, why am I working so hard for money? So I need to make...
00:39:02
Speaker
better and maybe stop a band-aid on the problem and so I'm gonna buy something so then it's almost worth it for me because I can't just work this hard and get nothing out of it yeah and all I'm getting from working this hard is more money yeah and so I guess I'll just spend it so that I can feel justified yeah and then then you work harder and then maybe we should talk about lifestyle creep and golden handcuffs yeah
00:39:31
Speaker
Should I go? Yeah, I want to hear your thoughts. I feel like we have some more thoughts. So, lifestyle creep is basically like when you're working in a really bougie industry where everyone is making a good amount of money. You kind of have to do things for appearances. Like you have to go to certain restaurants to say that you've been to that restaurant.
00:39:51
Speaker
You have to travel to places. Travel to places to say that you've been to those places. Have certain posts on your Instagram feed or have certain stories to tell. And you can't just look like crap when you're going to those places. You can't be wearing T.J. Maps. Yeah. The Van Cleef necklaces. Every other person's wearing them. Yeah. If everyone has two Cartier bracelets, what are you doing without your Cartier bracelet? Granted, there's been passed down to them or they're graduation gifts or whatever and you're like, well, that was kind of what my parents spent on sending me to college.
00:40:20
Speaker
So I don't have that. Yeah. So it's like a FOMO lifestyle and you just start spending money to show that you belong. Right. And then golden handcuffs are when you are basically like tethered to your job because you're spending. How so you can afford that? Yeah. You can't afford your lifestyle because the lifestyle creep has gotten so aggressive that you literally need your job in order to like
00:40:46
Speaker
fund your house that you probably spend too much money on and so it's it's golden handcuffs where oh maybe you originally didn't go into your career thinking oh I care about his money but then eventually you're going to need nice dinners you want to live in a certain neighborhood and then your rent instead of being you know 2k a month needs to be 4k a month and then you have to continue in this industry and it's just snowballs every year because you get
00:41:14
Speaker
more and more unhappy. And it's harder and harder to say, you know what, I'm going to give it all up. When you're friends, your apartment, what you're used to, it all becomes this economic facade, facade, you know, necessity to maintain. And then
00:41:32
Speaker
I see that a lot of people and you know me as well and it's much harder going from let's say you're making 200k a year to then go and say you know what I'm gonna leave this I'm gonna do a job that takes 60k 40k a year that's something I care about and unless you have family money savings a bunch of buffers it's so hard to do that it's all compounding but
00:41:57
Speaker
Just be careful of that. And I think a good way to do that is to sometimes ask yourself, do I actually want to make this purchase? What's my reasoning? It's okay if you wanted to be able to say, hey, I live in Tribeca. I live in the West Village, wherever. It's okay if that's a reason why. I think it's just beneficial to know why it is that you want that. You know? Yeah. I don't think it's a good idea to ever
00:42:28
Speaker
make big purchases for the sake of saying that you did ex-purchase but again I say this as like someone who has done the inner work and like left a situation that after years of knowing that it was making me unhappy I was like okay moving on but it's so hard when you're in it and I think like lifestyle creep is just a more exaggerated version of what I
00:42:55
Speaker
was experiencing when I was like, oh, I'm just gonna buy this thing because I'm so unhappy. It's like, oh, I'm just gonna go to this dinner and go on this vacation with these people. And none of this actually makes me that happy. But if I can say that I'm doing it, then that makes me feel better about my life being not a waste of my energy. I have some guy friends who are in banking still. And they live for the one week in August that they take off. And then they stay in the nicest $2,000 a night hotel.
00:43:25
Speaker
because if you're day to day, you're just working these hundred hour weeks. What is to live for? So if you're going to go on vacation, you might as well fall out. Yeah. You know, it's like a more exaggerated version of what I think we see on TikTok where people are like, Oh, like don't live for the weekends. Like people, people in finance are not even like living for the weekends because they're working on the weekends. They're living for one or two weeks a year. Like that is,
00:43:55
Speaker
the mental break that they get a year. Like it's a very, it's a tough life. Yeah. And obviously like it's voluntary, but. Yeah, I think it's hard to sometimes break out of these cycles when you're on the hamster wheel. Yeah. You know? You're like gaslighting yourself every day. Yeah, I mean, people want to have meaning and some people do enjoy it and it's worth it for them. And we all have different things that are important to us. Yeah.
00:44:25
Speaker
But I think my friends maybe who do live for the two vacations a year, it's fun for them. And they enjoy the work and, you know, so it's worthwhile. You can choose to spend your money the way you want, but it's helpful to know why it is that you're doing it.
Personal Style and Identity
00:44:42
Speaker
Do you want to hear a funny story? Tell me. You know, when you go to Macy's and you spend above like 45 bucks, they give you a free tote bag.
00:44:50
Speaker
Okay. I saw Goyard everywhere. I thought it was one of those bags. Really? I don't love Goyard personally. So many women in my office had it. And so I thought it was literally the $45 bag that they gave for free because I'm like, why is everyone wearing it? That's so funny.
00:45:08
Speaker
I also didn't think Louis Vuitton was expensive because I saw it everywhere. But one of my friends was saying, oh, did you see that she just got a new courtyard bag? And I'm like, what is that? And I'm like, that's what I said. Yeah, that bag is $3,000. And my jaw dropped. I was like, I thought it was your $45 freak. Ooh, fun question.
00:45:31
Speaker
Not that brands matter, but brands obviously spend a lot of money in cultivating their aesthetic, what they represent. Which brands best represent you or do you identify with? That's hard. I think Prada is a little bit edgier, like their designs have more clean lines. I don't think they're like timeless per se, but I like that they're an edgier take on
00:46:02
Speaker
a classic silhouette. So I do like Prada a lot and like the way that they design their things. It's more structured, I think. Yeah. I like Dior a lot. Oh my gosh. Like I love how whimsical some of their things are. Whatever those like tote bags are that like everyone like wears to the beach and you like never know if it's like real or fake.
00:46:21
Speaker
I love the way that they're designed. Yeah, I would say those two. I really like Zimmerman for Miami outfits. Okay. I like when things are detailed and whimsical. Oh, I see that. But on the flip side, I also like when they're very, very clean and will last you your life. Yeah. What adjectives would you describe your style as?
00:46:43
Speaker
That's really hard. I would say, I would say, Adrogynous. I would say clean and versatile. I don't, like, I'm not girly and I'm not, like, boyish either. I try to get things that are unique, but I don't like being, like, the most noticed person in the room. Yeah. What about you? What's your favorite designer and how would you describe your style? You know what's so funny?
00:47:10
Speaker
I think we have the same. Really? I was thinking about it. Because when you said Prada, I'm like, probably Dior and Prada. And then you said Dior. I'm like, same girl. Yeah, I think I like Prada because of how structured their designs are. Yeah. Like, I love their bags. And I think Dior is when I feel more of my it girl, that girl vibe, when I'm on vacation. You know, YSL to me is a little bit more edgy.
00:47:36
Speaker
YSL is a good one. I don't actually own much YSL. I respect it. We're also babies. We shouldn't be buying that stuff yet. I love my Prada sunglasses. Those fit your face well.
00:47:51
Speaker
Yeah, I like Chanel. I know it's basic to say. I like their clothing. I love supposed to say clothing, but like their vibe and their accessories. For me, it's not worth it to buy something Chanel. I would have to be making a significant more amount of money in order to justify allocating so much of money to my day-to-day wardrobe. It would have to be a great thrift for it to be worth it. Yeah, different brands just have different vibes like
00:48:19
Speaker
There's that whole thing with Balenciaga. I was never a Balenciaga girl. Yeah. Personally. I mean, I was never like a Fashion Nova, like Bodycon, like Sharp Edges girl. I'm like... Yeah. I'm like not dying to buy anything designer at the girl's place. No. But it's just like, they're well-known brands. Yeah. And I haven't bought a designer thing in a while. Same. Just because it's...
00:48:46
Speaker
Chanel doesn't mean it's better. Like jewelry, I think it's costume jewelry. It's in terms of quality. Yeah. And then jewelry is like a whole other thing. I love jewelry, as you guys can tell. I was gonna say, really? Really? Do I like jewelry? Who, me? Yeah. That, I think, is worth the investment because I wear it every day. Yeah. Okay. And I like what things represent. Like, I have, like, the bulgari, save the children. Oh.
00:49:15
Speaker
Collection because part it's it's much more affordable and the proceeds are supposed to go towards save the totem foundation That's amazing or parts of it. I don't think they're that nice to give all the proceeds. Yeah, I like it I like what it represents. I I like how it's more androgynous and masculine. It's unisex. I love that ring Yeah, and everything else I wear is basically gold, but I kind of like that. This is more masculine. Yeah. Yeah
00:49:40
Speaker
It's a smart purchase. Yeah. Thanks, guys, for tuning in. As a refresher, our handle is pretty invested media everywhere. If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and follow us on Apple, Spotify, and TikTok, where we share our highlights. Our episodes drop on Fridays. Yeah. Well, as we say, the best investment you can make is in yourself. So thanks, guys. Thanks, guys. Bye.