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Why Being a Girl Should Be Free - Advanced Girl Math
163 Plays1 year ago
On this episode, Eleanor and LD talk about money frameworks, where they like to invest their income and time, and they break out a little Excel spreadsheet of just how expensive it is to be a girl vs a guy.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Pretty Invested' Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Pretty Invested. I'm Eleanor and this is Elsie. Presented by your favorite ex-finance bros. We talk about the money things you actually care about. Hi guys, welcome back to Pretty Invested.
What is 'Girl Calculus'?
00:00:16
Speaker
Hosted by your two favorite ex-finance bros, LaDina, how are you? I'm good. I'm excited to talk about today's episode. I love complaining about how expensive it is to be a girl.
00:00:29
Speaker
Truly, so this episode we're gonna talk about girl calculus. Like girl math has been so popular recently, the way that beyond just general budgeting and accounting, there's different ways and frameworks to think about how you budget, how you spend money.
Optimizing Money Frameworks for Women
00:00:47
Speaker
And we are gonna take you to the next level, level 203 or 305, where we're doing
00:00:56
Speaker
girl calculus. So beyond just girl math, the way that it actually makes sense for you to do girl calculus. So we're gonna give you some money frameworks, gonna give you some things that make sense to invest in, how to think about money, and ways that make sense for a girl because like the way we navigate the world is very different than men and there's different, you know, different things you need to focus on and things you need to optimize for. So that's kind of the focus.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah. So the first thing that I wanted to talk about is just kind of like frameworks. I think it's really important to start from first principles and establish for how you as an individual think about what you want to optimize for. Because like what I want to optimize for is different with like Ladino wants to optimize for and different from what each individual wants to. So things like that include what you might get the most utility from. Maybe it's
00:01:50
Speaker
food you're like a huge food you love eating good food clothes travel like your house um your apartment you know doing activities what else lady i think fun optimizing for like things that are memorable things that make me feel
00:02:09
Speaker
Honestly, things that make me feel alive, that's what I like spending my money on the most. Just memories where I will look back in 10 years and be like, wow, I'm so glad that I had that experience. And it was priceless. I think convenience as well.
The Role of Convenience in Budgeting
00:02:25
Speaker
I know we've talked about convenience a lot, you and I. Making your life easier is just so important for clearing up
00:02:35
Speaker
mental space and letting yourself be more creative, giving yourself more time to think about where you actually want to go with your life, giving yourself more room to manifest. There is nothing that blocks my manifesting more than being worried about who is going to go get the groceries this week. So I would much rather pay $20 extra and have them get delivered to me. Being people, conveniences like that, I think gives you
00:03:05
Speaker
exponential free space mentally? 100%. Yes. We can totally dig it. I think we should absolutely dig into each one of those. And we can talk about what you and me personally really want to optimize for. And I think the reason why it's important to establish this is because no matter what your salary is, I don't care if you are a billionaire. You still need to understand what you want to prioritize. And I think about this book.
Identifying Personal Spending Priorities
00:03:35
Speaker
um by Ray Dalio literally called principles and there he outlines you know in life you know it's important to know
00:03:45
Speaker
Obviously, a lot of these things matter to you, but what are maybe the two or three that are most important to you and identifying that? And maybe that changes as you have more income or net worth, but it's important to understand and evaluate what is actually most important, right? And you mentioned convenience, you mentioned having fun, memorable experiences.
00:04:11
Speaker
So, jot that down for yourself, right? So, as an exercise, I think we listed them, right? Food, travel, convenience, health, investing in relationships, fashion, your apartment, experiences.
00:04:33
Speaker
Think to yourself, what can I not live without? What is so important and has outsized impact on the rest of my life? Some people, maybe their physical space and their rent and where they live is really important. If you don't like where you live, then
00:04:51
Speaker
Maybe that impacts your mood, your productivity. Some people love their looking good, like your beauty, their clothes. And when you feel good, you act differently. Convenience, right? Yeah. All these things have different price tags, but it's important to know at your current state with your current budget what you want to optimize for. Because you can't, I mean, you can, but some things you're going to spend more money on than others, right?
00:05:19
Speaker
I totally agree with you and I think maybe it's because we've also reached a certain point within our salaries where we can think about, you
Minimizing Rent for Networking and Experiences
00:05:27
Speaker
know, convenience. Like that's a luxury to be able to optimize for when, you know, on your higher, that's the hierarchy of needs. Like you need to pay for rent, you need to pay for food.
00:05:38
Speaker
the privilege of being able to think about convenience and optimizing for that is different. So when you're first out of college, couple years out of college, like when you actually built up a good nest egg, those things will change. But at your current state, like what is most important?
00:05:53
Speaker
experiences with friends you know your rent your clothes your health like eating right food going to having food experiences maybe pick like two or three of those for yourself and just kind of understand that because
00:06:10
Speaker
That'll help you make decisions so much more clearly when you are thinking like, should I buy something? Or is it worth it? Or is this where I should skimp out? Understand what you're trying to optimize for. And that's something that Ray Dalio talks about in his book on life. Are you optimizing for children? Are you optimizing for career experiences, family? I think knowing oneself,
00:06:31
Speaker
And having that as a framework and you can always refer back to will help you make decisions more quickly and clearly and get you what you want, ultimately. So that is why we went through this whole calculus lesson preface, literally the preface of our textbook that we're about to teach you through. And yeah, sorry, that was my little spiel.
00:06:56
Speaker
Am I allowed to be prescriptive in what I think is reasonable to spend on in your early 20s versus your mid 20s versus your late 20s? Yeah, I think so, especially because different people have different salaries, right?
00:07:15
Speaker
You know, maybe you're making a lot right out of college. Maybe you're not. Maybe you have to take a pay cut or maybe you're, you know, something happens in life. So it's not so linear. And the hope is that your wealth grows and you're investing and your money grows exponentially. You're not just like on a, you know, salary basis that the goal is to have your wealth grow exponentially. Yeah. What were you saying about being prescriptive though?
00:07:41
Speaker
I think if you're in your early 20s, don't spend a lot of money on rent. I never spent more than $1,000 on my living situation, and this was living in New York City. I was always super smart with finding a decent apartment in maybe not the best location. I never lived in Manhattan in my early 20s.
Social Media's Influence and Value of Experiences
00:08:08
Speaker
I moved to Phi Dye for the first time when I was 25. So prior to that, I never spent a ton of money. And I think so many people have this weird concept of what is an acceptable living situation because of social media where you see a full circle of windows and this perfect beige aesthetic. And it's like, girl, like anyone?
00:08:30
Speaker
in the early 20s that is in that kind of apartment, it's probably paid for with family money. Most of my friends don't have that nice apartments, even the ones who were in jobs paying 300, 400K. Yeah.
00:08:47
Speaker
It's not like an amazing apartment the way we see on social media and they're choosing not to spend on that because that can really rack up. And that's such a good point because you're literally, you're bunting. So it's not like you own it. After your lease is over, that's done. You're gone. You didn't have anything to own from like show for it. Yeah. And I think like,
00:09:15
Speaker
slight tangent, but you shouldn't be home if you're in your early 20s. Your apartment should be for sleeping. You should be out networking, socializing, making memories, doing things you physically won't be able to do when you're 26 because you're going to get older and more tired.
00:09:35
Speaker
It will never reflect poorly upon you as like a young 20 something year old woman that like you don't have a sick apartment. Like when you're early twenties, I think so many women don't realize this. You are so powerful because you're incredibly beautiful. You can basically get into any social scene that you want to get into with the right outfit. The world is truly your oyster and I think so many people don't realize that. And so the best thing that you can do for your net worth is to network.
00:10:06
Speaker
at that time. So it's like, if you're going to spend like an extra $1,500 on rent, like don't like go out and like spend it on Ubers, spend it on drinks, nice hotel lobbies, go to social clubs, get a social club membership. Do not spend your money on an apartment that you're not going to own to your point. Like you're not investing in yourself.
Financial Benefits of Having Roommates
00:10:28
Speaker
You're investing in, I don't even know.
00:10:32
Speaker
You may be a better situation for that one year, but ultimately it's not, maybe you can, I mean, it's not going to be nice enough. I think to like do so many hosts and dinner parties to like make up for, you know, the cost of it, you know, you might as well just rent someplace out. If you're in that next year, 1500 a month, like you're not hosting dinner parties like multiple times where it makes sense for you. And.
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think to your point too, maybe it's not like you can also have a bunch of roommates. I think it's fun to live with roommates. You don't need a one bedroom or studio in your early 20s.
00:11:17
Speaker
Everyone I know from college had roommates, even the ones who didn't need one, because it's part of the experience. And maybe you live in a shoebox in New York, but you live in West Village or in some specific location, but you get to be in the heart of the action. So there's different things you can flex up and down for. And so I think I agree. For the most part, I would say you're right.
00:11:42
Speaker
if you are in your early 20s, you probably shouldn't be optimizing for rent because it's a transitory thing. You're not going to hold on to it. It's not like an extra $1,500 a month. You can buy a designer bag. At least you'll have that design bag for the rest of your life. That little apartment isn't going to make a difference. And unless it's like a sick, sick apartment, no one's really going to care.
00:12:06
Speaker
come over and like have a pregame there. It's not going to compete. So maybe I do see the point is like maybe you are more of an introvert and you really do care about your physical space, then maybe it is like going to Bushway, going to a place that's more quiet, has lower rent, you can get a better apartment, but we would encourage you to even if you are introverts to still put yourself out there in your early 20s because there's so much to be gained at that period of your life and like
00:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, why not have fun? And you have that energy. Do you feel like your
Investing in Appearance for Professional Gain
00:12:42
Speaker
top three buckets changed in your early 20s versus where you're at now? I mean, you're still super young, but. That's such a good question. I would say convenience is my number one. I'm at the point where
00:13:01
Speaker
But I don't have to. I'm just going to take a train and set the train home, take an Uber. Maybe that's next, I probably could have saved 40 bucks. That's pretty substantial, but I'm not going to take, or I'm not going to risk my safety and take the train when I don't feel safe. I think in addition to that, I think that's always been kind of a priority for me.
00:13:24
Speaker
I was in a unique position where I think I've always had a slightly higher salary. So for me, it probably hasn't changed as much. I think I care about physical appearance. So I like looking good. It makes me feel good. I like investing in my clothes and my skincare routine. And I think that's been pretty consistent.
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think something that I've optimized more for is now experiences I think I have more time than I did free time work-life balance than I did when I was doing investment banking and so now I probably spend a lot more on traveling and like seeing the world but You know on the flip side. I don't really spend a lot of money eating out like I'm not
00:14:11
Speaker
Like maybe this is a minority opinion. I'm not a foodie. I appreciate good food, but I don't need to go and eat at $150 dinners all the time. Maybe I'll do it like once a month or a quarter.
00:14:26
Speaker
it's not something that gives me a lot of utility and excitement. First, I definitely have friends who are like, love going to the hottest new restaurant, like just get such a kick out of it. They enjoy it so much. And I'm just like, this food's good. But also the food I have, you know, from my
00:14:46
Speaker
every day is good. My vegetables are good. It's not that important to me. So there are other things where you're like, actually, this is not important to me. Just because it's important to other people doesn't mean that it needs to be important to you. Maybe some other people care about rent, doesn't mean you have to care about rent. That's why it's so important to define what are the things that you really want to optimize for. Yeah. So that was two.
00:15:11
Speaker
You said you're two were convenience and experiences. What else? Convenience and experiences now. I mean, I would be lying if I said that like I don't invest a ton into my appearance. Like I actually think that like expense wise, that's probably where most of my money is going. It's going into
00:15:34
Speaker
Beauty and clothing, maintaining my face, hair, exercise, like all of that is definitely where most of my money goes. Like it increases proportionally.
00:15:51
Speaker
The thing is like, okay, I know there's all this stuff about a capsule wardrobe, but if we're being honest, like I have a capsule wardrobe, but that doesn't stop me from being like, well, I still want to get this new sweater that's slightly different, you know? I think I'm a little delulu and be like, well, I'm going to invest in this. I'm not going to buy another one. But I, you know, six months later, I'm like, I feel like spending, like, oh, I want something new and fun, you know?
00:16:18
Speaker
And I think that's part of like growing, right? Where, you know, it's serving looks, right? The fun of being a girl is dressing up in a new outfit. And sometimes it is fun to like look pretty and feel good and like walk out in the world and, you know, feel like your best self. And I think this goes to something else we were talking about called like investing in beauty. It's not just,
00:16:48
Speaker
You know, you look good, so you feel good. It's kind of, if we're being honest, how the world perceives you and treats you. You know, I think if we're being honest, people are not, pretty privilege is a thing for a reason, and not just pretty privilege, like advantages in your career. What was that like stat you were saying? I've like read this in a few places, but like the most impactful thing that a woman can do to increase her earning potential,
00:17:18
Speaker
is to be a size small. Like it is the single most relevant thing that you can do to help your perception at work. Like people see skinny women as being more worthy of raises and they see them as being more productive.
00:17:35
Speaker
Wow, that goes into a psychology phenomenon called the halo effect. If you've heard of it, where it's like, you think people who are, you know, better in this one facet, like maybe more attractive or like, you know, it's, I struggle to even say better, but like, oh, like conventionally attractive, they must be more, you know,
00:18:02
Speaker
intellectual, they must be more competent at their job. And I think that that's a psychological, an actual psychological phenomenon and fallacy that we as humans just naturally are susceptible to. But like,
00:18:21
Speaker
Ultimately, we're not going to change the world. We can do our things to change the world. But we also need to navigate the world that we're in. And so we want to give you realistic advice. And so knowing these things about society, it behooves you to invest in your beauty. Because this is how the world is and how they treat women.
00:18:43
Speaker
Unfortunately, a lot of a woman's worth is in her physical looks. It's a very hard truth, and I despise that. A man's worth is not in his physical looks. I think about investment banking, and to your point, oh my gosh, every girl was
00:19:03
Speaker
Then there was no one who was overweight in my best main class can't say the same about guys guys ran the gambit of like, there was just a much higher like variance in terms of like, on the looks front, all were like, relatively, and I think
00:19:21
Speaker
We want to be realistic. And so as people who are rational actors and observant, we see the world around us and say, hey, guess what? I get treated better in XYZ facets. Why would I not try and optimize for it? And so we invest in beauty, in clothes, in perception.
00:19:43
Speaker
because in ways that you can't even quantify it, it really helps you. So yeah, that's girl calculus. When you put money into your looks,
00:19:55
Speaker
maybe that'll mean you get the job. Maybe it'll mean someone will be really nice to you. Maybe that'll mean someone invites you on a private jet, on a yacht. You don't know the ways it'll pay off. And like, that was like $15,000, a free $15,000 flight, or maybe not $15,000, but you know, it's a lot of ways that you can't even prescribe how,
00:20:21
Speaker
It'll take its impact. So I mean, it's a very base level. I think looking a certain way has the potential of just getting you a job. I think that pretty privileged played a huge role into me getting like basically every job I've ever had. Wow. I there's there's no way that I didn't play a role.
00:20:41
Speaker
And I've like been in an interview process or been in the interview processes where we were interviewing women for various roles at like multiple employers. And I saw how being objectively like not conventionally attractive worked against women.
00:20:58
Speaker
so it's it's really insidious it's it's unconscious bias like i don't think people are so malicious to be oh she is not pretty i don't want to hire her or like this girl's pretty i would rather look at her face every single day when i come into the office but it's like so deeply ingrained within people that they're just like
00:21:19
Speaker
I kind of like her, like, oh, she survived. I don't think, for the most part, people are so malicious and calculated about it, but it really does feed into how people are perceived in the world. I feel like this is really sad. This is like a very sad truth of the world, but I'd rather us address it than pretend it doesn't exist. And ultimately, one of the also really big things beyond just your career, it's like,
00:21:48
Speaker
finding a partner.
The Financial Burden of Beauty Routines
00:21:49
Speaker
Men also really value women based off their looks. There's other things as well. Of course. Can we think of any heterosexual relationships where the guy is objectively more attractive than the girl? Right. I can't think about it, but I would have to really, really think about it.
00:22:13
Speaker
there are probably a few but it's just not proportionate it's not even close you know versus all the girls who are away out of these guys leagues like so few maybe they're equal but there's so few where i'm like oh my god he's so out of her league like he must like her for her personality there's there's so few cases of that and yeah so it's just like
00:22:42
Speaker
It just behooves you to want to invest in that. Yeah. And I think like it's not a fun game to play, but a lot of the purpose of today's episode is to kind of like go into how expensive it is to play that game and how it's kind of a necessity where really women should be getting stipends for how they have to show up to work in a lot of ways.
00:23:06
Speaker
Oh my God, because, okay, so we did this little exercise where we calculated literally on a day-to-day basis, we did an estimation and girls do this too. It's really easy. Just think about all the products that you put on your face when you get ready in the morning or in your hair and think about each product, how much it costs and like approximately how long it lasts you, maybe like 60 days, like 365 days and
00:23:37
Speaker
add all those up on a per day basis and see how much product is literally on you. Like how much it costs on a per day basis that is on your body. And like, you know, I did this math and it's frightening. This doesn't even include like all of the clothes and like fixed costs. These are the variable costs that like every day you have to like reapply and
00:24:03
Speaker
The number is a little astounding. And this is like the base. This is an underestimation. It's literally just skincare part of our daily makeup, because it would have taken too long to add all of our daily makeup in there. I put my annual nail cost in there. But this isn't even really like facials or exercise. This is literally just like, what is your skincare routine and your makeup routine?
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah. What's yours without? Well, expose ourselves. Like what is yours without working out? $15 a day. Cost you $15 a day. So let me break down the math for you guys. Okay. Right. Moisturizer. Okay.
00:24:56
Speaker
makeup remover like in the mornings, moisturizer, sunscreen, serum, foundation, retinol, powder, mascara, eyebrow liner, lipstick, contour, highlighter, hair oil, perfume, exercise. And then like all these other things, I included exercise. And I think because I don't do my nails at a salon, mine is like lower, right? Because I don't have the utility of having like perfectly done nails all the time.
00:25:25
Speaker
It cost me $13.29 a day. So when I think about one, guys are like, oh, I have to pay for her drink. I'm like, this is not even including my clothes, all these other treatments, teeth whitening, whatever that you have to do. Me just showing up, there was $20 a product on my face. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:53
Speaker
Um, mine comes mostly from my skincare routine, like my makeup's not that bad, I like, they last me a while, but...
00:26:01
Speaker
my girl calculus is, well, if I'm spending all this on moisturizer, sunscreen, retinol, serums, then in the future, I won't have to do facials. I don't have to spend that. I won't have to spend so much on anti-aging when I'm older. So it's an investment. So 1 plus 1 means I'm actually saving money by spending so much on my skincare routine daily. That's true. Yeah.
00:26:29
Speaker
And part of the exercise is we also did a calculation for some male in our life. And how does that compare? So average guy, his routine consists of a shampoo. We baked in the annual cost of how much he would have to spend on razors a year, how much he would have to spend on haircuts a year.
00:26:57
Speaker
and then we're not doing basics like toothpaste and like toothbrushes and deodorant because like you would hope that like whatever we're not we didn't include that in ours either yeah so that averages out to a dollar and eighty cents a day for the average male versus like fifteen dollars it's literally complete calculations like it's easily twenty dollars but whatever
00:27:23
Speaker
Yeah, I have a line item that's closed and it's literally don't get me started. Like let's not even get into it. Like if I had to like break down how much I spent annually on clothes.
00:27:37
Speaker
I don't even want to do that math. I think that'll make me really sad. But it goes towards utility, right? There is also a reason why women spend more than men.
Navigating Career with Gender Biases
00:27:50
Speaker
Men can spend $2 a day on how they look. That includes their annual haircuts, annual whatevers. And they wouldn't get treated much better if they spent so much more on
00:28:04
Speaker
their you know on like skincare or whatever other things that men don't wear makeup and so i feel like it makes sense for them to not invest in it but there's also we're not being stupid by spending this money on our appearance like i think i also reap dividends where you don't pay for certain things or you get pretty privilege and
00:28:30
Speaker
I think it's unfair that a lot of men, they don't have to care about this. They get kind of treated well in the workforce. They get all these other benefits. But I do think that for women, it actually is very rational for us to invest in our physical. I mean, it's like we need to. So the way that I think about it is if a guy takes care of his appearance, it makes him exceptional.
00:28:58
Speaker
right? Like it makes him into a porn. Whereas like if a woman takes care of herself, that's like the bare minimum and it's like expected of us. And if we don't take care of ourselves and you're seen as like, like a radical or you're seen as lazy or you're seen as like, I don't know, like it just doesn't work for you. When women like didn't shave their armpits and people, men were horrified. I'm like, one man has ever ashamed his armpits, you know? Yeah. I mean, some of them do.
00:29:27
Speaker
Oh, really? I guess maybe it's your swimmers. It's more of a European thing, but I feel like whenever I'm at the beach in Europe, it's like, what'd you say? The armpits? Yes. Really? Yeah, like trim at least. Okay, interesting. Okay. But still, that's a different thing, right? Like we never think about like, yeah.
00:29:55
Speaker
It's a radical thought to think that a man would do that for me. But yeah, it costs money to be a girl. But I think it's an investment in your future. Because ultimately, I had this conversation with some of my guy friends. If you think about it, I don't know how many of you guys think about poker or just card games. We are dealt different hands.
00:30:17
Speaker
Like ultimately, there are rules and business advice that I see often I'm like, this applies to a man. These are not the rules that apply to me like we are dealt different hands, and you have to play the card that cards that you are dealt. And it's not like we have the same cards.
00:30:34
Speaker
in our world because I'm a girl, I'm not gonna be the one who's golfing with the guys, drinking beers, that's how I'm gonna get ahead. That doesn't apply to me.
00:30:49
Speaker
You can say, you could just do it, lean in. But I'm like, what? I'm going to go golfing. It's not the same vibe when you just go hang out with the guys. And then you're that girl. And so you play the cards that you're dealt. You are a beautiful girl. I actually think one could argue girls have more advantage or a disadvantage. It's like your framework. Whatever helps you navigate.
00:31:18
Speaker
I kind of think still, despite all the beauty things, I keep like, oh, well, you get all these free things. I'm like, I still think the cards that were dealt are shadier than the cards that men are dealt. But we're going to play at our cards and we're going to take advantage because I'm not going to be able to compete on the same races that the guys are doing. And so I'm going to keep competing my own race and see how I get ahead.
00:31:44
Speaker
that's why it always frustrates me when certain guys on my team are like well you got invited to this like networking event because you're a girl I'm like you get all these other advantages and I think net net you have your your your hand is better than mine but this is one hand that I have that you can't play and you're trying to
00:32:06
Speaker
you know, prescribe that, that's why I'm getting hit. And like, I have all these advantages when you don't recognize your privilege and the advantages that you have. And I don't feel I no longer feel bad about playing my hand. Do people actually say that?
00:32:24
Speaker
I mean, that's the whole thing where people are like, she only got the job because for like diversity or whatever, that you only got invited to this dinner because like they needed more women there or like she's got put on the board or she got this job because they wanted, you know, whatever. I think that is a thought that people have, but that is, I think, a weak argument because it only
00:32:49
Speaker
It puts all the attribution onto this one factor and not acknowledge all the ways that men are benefited. When men are saying like, oh, they want to promote a woman. There are all men here. There's this hilarious skit that Ali Wong did where I think she's like this Asian female comedian and this white male comedian says to her like, oh, you're so lucky that you're an Asian woman and you get to do all these things.
00:33:18
Speaker
maybe you should just be better than all the other white male comedians that are like literally all the other ones who are like basically 99.9% of comedians and maybe you're not good enough and like you do better than that because I think it's so ridiculous to say like a woman has it because like of these advantages I think it's such honestly maybe I'll get hate for this like
00:33:41
Speaker
a victim mentality for someone. Someone only got this opportunity because of their race and doesn't acknowledge all the benefits that they have. I am intellectually honest. I know there are certain things. We both are. We got our jobs, partially because we're pretty girls. But also, there are so many other things that we do. That's not the only reason why we got it. And I think other people are not intellectually honest. They don't see the ways that they are benefited in the world. I think they just decide to view the world in a way in which
00:34:11
Speaker
What benefits them is just normal, but what benefits other people is an advantage, or an unfair advantage. And I think that is very intellectually dishonest. I just went on a rant. I'm sorry. I might get some male hate. Luckily, I don't think we have very many men listening to this, or at least I hope we don't. Yeah, well.
00:34:31
Speaker
That was my whole stick of like, you should invest in your beauty. I think for a long time, the reason I feel so strongly is because I bought into the narrative that the guys were saying, let me just try and be one of the boys. I'm gonna be a chat. I'm gonna learn how to talk like a dude, act like a dude. I'm gonna compete in the same race that they do, and I'm gonna downplay.
00:34:58
Speaker
my physical attractiveness. I don't want to be seen in this way. I don't want to take advantage, like, oh, I'm gonna fly through the regular pool. Like, I don't need to do this. I think that is so such an incomplete view of the world. And
00:35:13
Speaker
why and i just came to the realization through time i'm like why the f am i doing this like why am i not leaning into the advantages i have because guess what ultimately to go back to my analogy we are all dealt different cards people have different advantages and and i still think men are
00:35:32
Speaker
have the better hand so play every card you got girl like why wouldn't you why wouldn't you lean into it like they can't do this thing and they're like better because they can't lean into being a pretty girl and getting into certain things for free that's their problem so you should not take advantage of their your advantages but they can take advantage of their advantages that doesn't seem fair to me that's real why like you can play your ace i can't play my ace what that doesn't seem fair
00:36:02
Speaker
I think for me, I often felt like I couldn't win in the workplace if I acted like a woman authentically. I felt like I had to put a mask on in a lot of ways and argue with male mannerisms. For some time, I would say I toned down my makeup, but if I'm being totally honest with myself, I've always been a little bit extra in the way that I present myself in person.
00:36:31
Speaker
that I was super self-conscious about like the first year that I was working I was like oh like I want to have like a great eye makeup day but like I can't be super dramatic with it or I would wear things like we're a little bit happier because I didn't want people to like
00:36:46
Speaker
pay attention to my figure, like things like that. Yeah, taken seriously respected. Yeah, I want it to be taken seriously. But like what I've learned in working in male dominated places is that like, you will never you're like set up to fail if you go into it thinking that you will succeed by acting like a guy if you're a girl.
00:37:07
Speaker
I think there are lots of more subtle, emotionally intelligent ways to get ahead in the workplace. And you have this entire arsenal of tools as a woman that a man will very rarely be able to access in terms of emotional intelligence. In some ways, vulnerability. In some ways, connectivity with other people in your network.
00:37:34
Speaker
there's so much that we have to lean on in terms of like genuine connection and also like to put in like some like dark feminine stuff in there like we're better at manipulating people so
00:37:46
Speaker
So many things that you can use and like your looks are part of it. So like your intuition and like your emotional tact is a huge part of it. And so I really only realized this last year. I was like, wow, like I can get so much further if I show up to work as a girl for years to process.
00:38:07
Speaker
I think we live such parallel paths. And I think a lot of girls do the same thing where I can say from firsthand experience, like I, I think somewhat like, I would actually someone successfully, you know, befriended a lot of the guys in finance, you know, was able to speak their language, but there was always a barrier. Like I, like I would get along, you know, be great, but
00:38:34
Speaker
I wouldn't get invited to the all guys poker nights and like kind of like why you know it's and it's just it's like not genuine authentic to who I am to like be in those spaces like you're not invited to like when the guys go to the strip club like there's always like
00:38:55
Speaker
there's there's it's like maybe it's called the glass ceiling or whatever like there's only so far that you know you can like joke around during happy hours but you're not gonna get full access the way that like these guys like do do dealings like here and like ultimately like bud i have this great opportunity for you like i'm gonna push ahead so i found my own path like
00:39:19
Speaker
I think a lot of guys like the fact that I'm a smart pretty girl and they like helping me and I'm appreciative and I have good energy and vibes and I'm helpful and I'm someone who's, I'm a pretty authentic and genuine person so if you help me, I'll help you. And so I figured out a different approach instead of
00:39:39
Speaker
trying to play their game, doing the more feminine, the more emotionally intelligent way of like, oh, when you help me, I'll be really appreciative. And I usually help you. And there are different ways to be successful. And
00:39:54
Speaker
I think a lot of business books and career advice, I think fail to take all these things into account. I think a lot of the advice that my male bosses give me, I think are excellent, but I take with a grain of salt because I'm like, that's what worked for you. And I appreciate the help and I will take it into consideration, but I also need to understand and know like,
00:40:21
Speaker
things apply slightly differently, some things are broadly applicable, some things are not. And I think that took maturity and life experience to realize. Seriously, it takes a lot of reflecting and almost like an insane amount of life experience, like an unfair amount of life experience to digest that.
00:40:46
Speaker
Yeah, and we're telling you this because we had to go through the trials and tribulations to come to this conclusion.
Investing in Experiences Over Material Goods
00:40:53
Speaker
So hopefully you can circumvent all these lessons and learn from us and be like, actually, I'm not going to try and pretend I'm one of the bros and drink beers. And maybe then they'll accept me. No, they won't. They just won't. Or you're going to feel really weird always being the only girl
00:41:13
Speaker
And then having to put up with certain things that you're actually maybe not comfortable with. So I don't see that working out in the favor of many girls. And I think most women realize that. So up to you, live it. We did it. I tried to do the fantasy football league in my bank.
00:41:40
Speaker
I literally just picked like, I'm like, Tom Brady is good, right? And he's cute. But precisely, right? So I think, I think the whole point of this whole spiel we kind of went on a tangent is play the cards you're dealt, like invest in your physical beauty. Like it's, if you want, I mean, you don't have to.
00:42:06
Speaker
But I think there is benefits doing it. If you want. But I think there are definitely advantages to doing so. And yeah. And then on a more
00:42:21
Speaker
lighter now i think another thing to think about in terms of girl calculus is what i like to coin i think i coin this the fun value of money or the time value of fun if anyone is familiar with economics it's or finance it's a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow and that's because of you know interest rates and like having ten dollars today is worth more than having ten dollars in a year because
00:42:52
Speaker
If looking at current interest rates, that $10 today would be $10.60 in a year because you get a 6% interest rate. And oh wait, no, $10.06, right? No, $10.06. 60.
00:43:10
Speaker
Yeah, $10.6. Let's cut that part out. Right? So the same goes for, I think, fun. And this was a lesson that my mother taught me where I think I was debating whether or not to do a specific trip. And she was saying, L, honestly, go for it. You are young and have energy right now. Spend more money on these experiences. She now has a lot of money in her little nest egg.
00:43:38
Speaker
she and my dad honestly they just hang out with each other watch tv they don't go on like world trips together they're in their 60s like they have their money now but
00:43:49
Speaker
they don't have the energy or the desire to wanna like travel the world. And right now you're young and maybe it's a little slightly out of your budget to go to San Tropez, but you have a chance to go to San Tropez with a bunch of fun people, cool people to network with. So why not go, right? And so my mom was like, honestly, just,
00:44:10
Speaker
It's fine. You have the energy. Fun today is worth more than fun tomorrow. Honestly, you might not have that experience to have fun later. And the experience that you have today will feed into your knowledge, your culture, your world view in ways that having an extra thousand dollars in the bank.
00:44:33
Speaker
might not do for you. it's always on a case by case basis if you have the money like don't you know do certain things but i do think there is something to the idea that like invest in having fun experiences in your youth and meeting people and doing cool things because that will pay dividends in ways you can't even imagine like maybe like on that trip i met so many interesting cool people i know like all the cool clubs in santro pay now like
00:44:58
Speaker
I know where I want to go back. I can like speak to it. I can, you know, I say I had that experience. I have like very fond memories of it. And well, I could, I could, maybe I could have waited until I was in my 30s to do this, but I had this awesome experience in my 20s. And for me, I'm in a place where that marginal, like extra thousand dollars I spent, I'm just probably more than a thousand dollars, going to San Tropez.
00:45:25
Speaker
was it's not gonna make a big difference in my lifestyle, my savings, you know? And because I went to Santa Fe, guess what? I know I get utility from this. That's one of those things I'm optimizing for. I don't spend as much money on getting my nails done. I don't spend money on, you know, I don't have, I don't spend huge amounts of money in my rent, right? I get to travel. That's one of the reasons why I don't spend that much money on rent because it makes me feel less bad about leaving my apartment
00:45:54
Speaker
to go to Santa Pat, you know? So that's the fun value of money. I think it's also like so much more valuable to be like a cultured 25 year old than it is to be a cultured 35 year old. And there's so much like educating that you can do to yourself online or with podcasts or listening to lifestyle gurus or all this stuff that's easily accessible to us. It's completely different to
00:46:23
Speaker
go to another continent and experience different cultures before your brain is fully formed. Put yourself in uncomfortable situations where you don't know the language. There's just so much depth and learning that happens with traveling in a lot of ways. I feel like for me, it was more impractical than going to college was. It's a different kind of education and people go into so much for college degrees that are objectively useless. Or people spend so much on an MBA, like that's 200K.
00:46:52
Speaker
Think about reallocating that 200K. Yeah, I mean like we've talked about this a bunch, but I think that MPAs are objectively not worth it unless you are really trying to expand your network in a specific industry.
00:47:07
Speaker
Or pivot, yes. Or gain some sort of managerial skill set that you weren't able to accomplish from the past few years of work experience that you had. Or if you go to school and someone's funding your education and you weren't doing that. But I think MBAs were very much the thing to do in 2008 when everyone thought that the economy was so bad and it was hard to get a job in the job market.
00:47:31
Speaker
But now if you're trying to network, it's like what I was talking about earlier, don't spend a lot of money on rent, be out there, go to social clubs, network with people that are five to 10 years older than you. Like you're young, you can literally get into any door that you want. So that extends to traveling. I know we're all building up our bank accounts in our twenties and traveling feels really expensive. And you're like, Oh, I'll just make money now. And like do it when I'm 30. No, do it now. You won't regret it.
00:48:00
Speaker
I don't, I think you won't regret it. And that's why we also say it's like, what are you optimizing for? I think this should be one of the things you're optimizing for. Don't spend as much on these other things that we're saying. We're not saying don't have a savings account and like spent like live paycheck to paycheck. Like I don't think that's a good, if you're in that position, then maybe not, but downsides and other spots like, like, okay, do you have to eat a Nobu every single like month,
Personalized Education Through Experiences
00:48:25
Speaker
right? Like,
00:48:26
Speaker
you do have to do this and that. There are other things that you can downsize on that ultimately won't give you as much utility. Like the reason why I don't think like dinners are that impressive, like it's like a meal. It's one meal. Once, especially once you've like been to a bunch of good restaurants, it's like, okay, that's how I feel about it. I know other people feel differently, but it's exactly what you say. Like spending on
00:48:49
Speaker
experiences meeting people people go to nba's like business school because they want to expand their network and you can expand your network by yourself and think about reallocating that 200k right like that's so much trouble like rather than going 200k into debt or like 200k like you can still you don't have and leaving the workforce you can find opportunities or take a sabbatical or
00:49:18
Speaker
you got 200k you can think about like maybe bucket 100k into angel investments if you have a be careful with angel investments as someone in vc but like if you feel like you are able to invest or like put your money into alternative investments who knows maybe one thing will hit do your research on that because most people lose money but that might be a good learning case right like
00:49:46
Speaker
you have maybe you're okay with that 100k going to zero and you want to learn what it's like to invest in early stage startups to invest in real estate to invest in whatever in REITs and you know other things and that can potentially become millions if you if you hit it big right and
00:50:05
Speaker
then maybe i'll look another 100k for traveling for joining a membership club membership clubs i don't know what's so house like maybe like 2500 if you're if you're younger i think if you're under 27 or something you pay less and then you get grandfathered in for that that price range for five years that maybe that's what you can meet people there you can meet people at like
00:50:25
Speaker
other social clubs, you can invest in others, you know, for those two years that people maybe are in MBA, maybe create your own curriculum where you can optimize for the things that you would get from an MBA, your network, education, take an online class, you know, meet new people, have experiences.
00:50:44
Speaker
do real-world practice of angel investing, of investing. Because guess what? When you actually do real-world practice, you learn a lot, and then you actually might see upside if those investments do well. It's a risk. Maybe it'll go to zero. But I think you can craft your own MBA, right? And that's something that I've been thinking about, like, hey, I'm not spending on an MBA.
Investing in Personal Relationships
00:51:07
Speaker
Maybe I don't feel so bad about going to Santa Fe. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's always worth it.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yeah. Is there anything else that you think that people should consider as like things that they want to optimize for? This isn't something that I'm particularly good at, but I know we were talking about it and you've talked about it a little bit where your mom is exceptional at this, but being really thoughtful with gift giving, seeing it as an investment almost in that relationship and like that's almost another form of angeling, like on a micro level where it's like you never
00:51:43
Speaker
Yeah, you never know what the outcome is going to be like from being a really thoughtful friend to people and like giving them little trinkets of like your appreciation of them. Because that's also I think like dying art. I agree. I think it's like, and that's not always gifts and like manifest monetarily. But sometimes it is right where I don't think I ever cheap out with my friend where
00:52:07
Speaker
I'll like, I'll go to, I'll pay a bunch of money to go to a concert that I don't even really want to go to. Or I don't know the artist that well, because my friend wants to go and I, and like, Oh, she wants to go and she wants a buddy like
00:52:20
Speaker
Yeah, I'll go like I don't like for the experience and to invest in that relationship and sometimes what I'll do is I'll I'll buy my friends drinks like oh I got it like I'm not I don't like to nickel and die my friends and that is a privilege right I think when in college like you guys everyone splits things evenly but now I'm like, you know what?
00:52:40
Speaker
I got your $30 lunch, it's fine. Maybe you'll get the next one. That $30 to me, that's new, we're home. I'll take the train that day. And so I feel like with friends and relationships, romantic relationships too, I think guys should think a lot about this. Investing in a super partner, I think it's smart for them.
00:53:08
Speaker
I think investing in your friendships and like not cheapening out or like, what's that word? Like skimping out on your friends. Like no one wants to feel that. Like in our relationship, like if like, you know, I don't want to pay for something. And so friendships are so valuable and the relationships you have and the dynamic.
00:53:32
Speaker
That's something that I also really prioritize, like getting them a thoughtful gift. Sometimes I have friends who can't pay for shit. I'll help subsidize them. I want them to have that experience. And if you're in a position to do that, I get a lot of utility. I love doing nice things for my friends. I love taking care of people. Like, gift-giving is one of my love languages. So if I can, this is something that I'm in a position to be helpful with.
00:54:03
Speaker
no brainer for me and like buy my friend like something like a birthday cake for her birthday and like seeing her light up
00:54:14
Speaker
the equivalent of buying, like, spending $40 or $30 on myself. Like, nothing gives me that same, like, oh, I made this person's day. They're so happy. Like, really, like, the look on someone else's face, like, $30, $40, you know, Uber home, lunch, you know, dinner for myself.
00:54:33
Speaker
What's the difference? Buying someone balloons? To me, that's very meaningful. And I think it's a little bit of a lost start. And maybe the reason why I also think... I think people don't do it very often, so I think it's extra meaningful when you do do it. Yeah, if you're in a position to, or like...
00:54:54
Speaker
My mom has always been, she would go shopping in Marshalls, but buy people designer bags. She bought people iPads, she never had an iPad. I mean, she now has one, but she bought so many iPads before she ever bought one for herself because she's like, oh, they would be happy to have an iPad. It's a very unique case.
Strategies for Optimizing Spending
00:55:16
Speaker
That's more of a outlier type of,
00:55:21
Speaker
action the way my mom does it but yeah yeah well
00:55:26
Speaker
I think those are most of the things that we wanted to cover are basically frameworks. And I hope you guys all each jotted down like three or so things that you want to optimize for, the benefit you get from each, the cost, not just the cost, the opportunity cost, because if you spend money on food and you don't have, you have less to spend here, it doesn't matter your budget. Understanding like it makes sense to invest in your beauty and take advantage of the advantages you have. Why not? And take advantage of being
00:55:52
Speaker
young and having fun experiences, I would implore you to optimize for that up to you. Everyone has different things. Don't let someone else wants and other people's desires conflict with your own. But I think that is something, a lesson that I think is valuable. Convenience, all these other things, just consider it. And I think it's really good mental models to have to understand what matters to you.
00:56:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's always good to have structure in everything, but I think we're very rarely structured about like our happiness and like the money that goes into money.
Accepting Non-Traditional Financial Reasoning
00:56:32
Speaker
So I love your framework.
00:56:35
Speaker
I hope it's helpful for you guys. This is our, you know, higher level of girl math, girl calculus. And I think it's totally rational. Don't let someone make fun of you for girl math. If things make sense, like, hey, I am not spending on MBA, I can spend on these things that also give me value. I think girl math is actually, in fact, more
00:56:58
Speaker
is actually a higher level than just regular accounting math because that's just like numbers, just numbers.
Closing Remarks and Podcast Information
00:57:06
Speaker
The other like softer or like intangible benefits that things have, like investing in your beauty, like it's so one-dimensional. This is like
00:57:17
Speaker
this is not just on an x y axis, there's a z axis. Like this is 3d thinking guys, like we understand the implications of things and the values of things. So girl come out is actually far more advanced than just straight up accounting. Okay. Yeah, this is calc two, where the two is feeling. I guess like the z is feelings.
00:57:39
Speaker
Yes, yes. This is far more advanced than most people take into consideration. But this was so much fun. Lydian, do you want to sign us off? Yeah. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you enjoyed the pod, please rate it wherever you're listening. You can follow us everywhere. We're at Pretty Invested Media. And we'll talk to you guys next Friday. Bye, guys.