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How to Invest in Your Friends - The Dying Art of Generosity
192 Plays1 year ago
On this episode, Eleanor and LD talk about how money impacts friendships, family and business relationships. They talk about Eastern vs. Western money culture, the difference between being rich vs. generous, and when it’s worth cutting off ties with a friend. Sometimes you can’t put a price on friendship.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Pretty Invested'
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Pretty Invested. I'm Eleanor and this is LD. Presented by your favorite ex-finance bros. We talk about the money things you actually care about.
Cultural Experiences from Italy
00:00:12
Speaker
Hey guys, welcome to Pretty Invested featuring your two favorite recovering finance bros. LD, how are you? I'm good. I just got back from Italy, so recovering from jet lag a little bit.
00:00:27
Speaker
We were there for, it was really for a wedding. I kind of turned into a family reunion. I've talked about it a little bit but I'm Albanian and my family's kind of scattered all over the place and I hadn't seen everyone for years so it was really good to see people after seven years I think it had been. I think I forgot what it was like a little bit to be in an Eastern culture having been
00:00:53
Speaker
in America only with the American part of my family here for
Money in Relationships Across Cultures
00:00:57
Speaker
so many years. And it was the inspiration for today's pod a little bit, which I'm actually really excited to talk about because money is super personal. And we're going to be talking about money in relationships and platonic relationships and friendships and business and family and also in dating, which is even more personal. Yeah, I feel like I find the same
00:01:20
Speaker
of situation. Sometimes I'll see some extended family or really close friends of my moms that I'll call auntie even if we don't really know how they're auntie. But then they are so generous where I'm like I haven't seen you since I was three years old or five years old and you're
00:01:43
Speaker
demanding to pay for my dinner or to buy me something or come and present me with this new gift. And I'm like, I don't even know you, but you consider us like a family, even if we haven't spent that much time together. Be like, oh, well, I used to babysit you all the time.
00:02:00
Speaker
And I think something about that type of communal culture you have where they talk about it takes a village and it's so different versus, you know, I'll go over to maybe one of my American friends' families and then we all like split it a little bit more evenly. It's not as much of a don't worry about it. And I think that's probably somewhat similar to what you've experienced.
Communal vs. Transactional Cultures
00:02:23
Speaker
Yeah, I would say it's like, identical, honestly, like it's it's a culture of your well being is my well being. And so my money is your money and your happiness is my happiness. Obviously, it has its origins in communities and cultures where you didn't really have as much governmental infrastructure. And all you really had was your neighbors and your like, quote unquote, plan. And
00:02:54
Speaker
It was always shocking for me culturally to grow up first of all in Queens where different people are coming out money from very different places. I remember the very first moment where I was in high school and I was forming a new group of friends and we all went out to lunch in the middle of the day because we were able to leave high school for lunch once we were juniors.
00:03:19
Speaker
And it was turned for everyone to pay and everyone was like going into their wallets and, you know, putting whatever they owed. Right. And I was like, wow, if I'd been with my cousins or if I had been with like Albanian people, one person would have fought for the bill. And my best friend growing up was Romanian and we would literally
00:03:42
Speaker
scheme to go and figure out who could pay the bill to make sure that we never even got to the table so that we wouldn't have to fight to be like, Oh no, I've got it. Like, no, you, no, you don't. I'm going to pay. Like we would like run to the bathroom and cover the bill and make sure that it would never be a thing. It's like,
00:03:59
Speaker
extreme gift giving culture because it's just like if I love you and you are in my circle, I will always take care of you in a way. That is so funny because I thought that was an exclusively Asian thing to do.
00:04:15
Speaker
But yeah, apparently Albanians do it. I remember seeing a TikTok about this Middle Eastern girl and her friend, you know, all of the schemes that they would pull, running to the bathroom to try and pay the bill and then getting mad that they weren't the ones who were able to pay the bills. And it's just such a foreign concept to my American friends where someone will literally say, here's my Venmo or what's your Venmo? I'll request you to the very scent.
00:04:45
Speaker
And it seems so old, right? So transactional. Like, I thought you loved me, but to them, it's not offensive. Yes. And I think that was something I had to learn, right? Just because someone's being transactional with you, that's more saying about their culture than how they feel about your specific relationship.
00:05:06
Speaker
Right?
Childcare and Retirement Across Cultures
00:05:07
Speaker
Yeah. It's not that, oh, I don't want to owe you anything. It's just this is how my parents taught me. In America especially, we were brought up in these suburban nuclear households where it's not as much of the community raises you, right? Like one of my bosses, he was telling me about how expensive it is to get a babysitter for his kids. Other cultures where
00:05:36
Speaker
someone would volunteer their grandmother, their mother, someone would come in and swoop in and take care of the child, or you would drop them off. And it was it's just such a different type of vibe. And, and think thinking about how expensive it is for a babysitter, like, I don't know, $40 an hour, I hear sometimes they're willing to pay. Yeah, there were two concepts that were super foreign to me growing up. Yeah.
00:06:02
Speaker
where even though we grew up in America, I always categorized it as like an American thing or I like othered it. And it was babysitters and retirement homes. Like those two concepts made no sense to me. I never had babysitters growing up. Sure, like my mom's friends would come over and watch us.
00:06:22
Speaker
but it's not like they were getting paid to do it. And retirement homes, I think my parents would rather die on the spot than be sent to a retirement home. What's a lot more common is live-in nannies. You get them a live-in caretaker. That's what I see. If you aren't able to be there for themselves, you don't send them off to a home or a living area. You buy a nanny to take care of them. Interesting, yeah.
00:06:52
Speaker
For us, no, like for us, they just typically they stay with the eldest child or the eldest son, which my parents are both the eldest children. So my grandparents lived with us for most of my life. And now the one grandma that I have left, she's in Albania, but it's just because like she just hates living in the States. So it's like all her friends are in Albania. So she's just like there. Wow.
00:07:20
Speaker
So yeah, when it came to friendships and I graduated quote unquote from my Eastern European circle and I went to college and it was like way more like regular American Anglo-Saxon cultures. I just remember finding them to be so much more frigid than what I was used to. And they almost felt like inauthentic friendships to me.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah, but now I've gotten so used to it. I'm like, Oh, yeah, whatever. Split wise.
Gift Giving: Generosity vs. Wealth
00:07:54
Speaker
Sure. And like, obviously, my friends and I went on a vacation to raise last year. Obviously, we were going to split things evenly. And that didn't feel weird or frigid or transactional to me. I was just like, Yeah, we're all adults. We all have jobs. We all have responsibilities. We all have nuclear families that we're going to be wanting to build in the next five years or so. And it's like the responsible thing to do.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's because, right, we live in America. This is the majority. This is the culture. And if you're coming in saying, oh, no, I'll just get it. And you guys can get the next one. People will look at you. And that would be the more uncommon thing. And I think we've lived in the States for most of our lives. So it's become normalized to us. So that's why when you go back to spend time with your Albanian family, you find that behavior to be odd versus the one in the US.
00:08:44
Speaker
Yeah. So it's not just money. It's also like people open up their homes and their energy to you. And really money is energy. So it all just goes to like how generous are people with their energy. We are staying in my aunt's house. And it's so ingrained in the culture to be generous that if we were to go to Italy and stay at a hotel, it would actually offend. Right.
00:09:12
Speaker
Yeah. My house is right here. I was not sleeping in a comfortable situation. I was sharing a twin bed with my cousin. Right. But that is so much more normal to her than if my mom and I were to go and get a hotel. Yes. So this reminds me of this framework that I learned about when I took this anthropology of money class in college where
00:09:42
Speaker
You can probably quantify in certain ways what that would cost, right? Like how much would Airbnb in Italy cost per night or the hotel that you no longer have to stay at. But my professor, when he was, he's American, he went to Togo in West Africa and he was doing a study there and living there for a little bit. He told the story where every day he would buy like a pack of gum and a newspaper from the stand.
00:10:12
Speaker
He would just do that every day, but one day he forgot his wallet. And the guy, he was like, don't worry about it. You come here every day. Don't worry about it. Just take it. Don't even worry about it. And then the next day he comes back and he pays the man double for what he missed the day before. And the man actually was really hurt by it.
00:10:37
Speaker
And my professor was confused, like, oh, I'm not trying to take advantage of you. I want to make sure you get your fair share. And the reason why that the storekeeper felt offended was because him offering it for free was his way of saying, we have a relationship. It's fine.
00:10:56
Speaker
And it's like you owe me in a kind of way, some sort of debt. But my professor immediately the next day paying off his debt was in a sense saying, hey, I don't want to owe you anything. I don't want to have a relationship with you. This is very transactional. So the shopkeeper who saw this man every single day, he would buy the same thing, thought he'd deal out something, said this is like, don't even worry about it.
00:11:23
Speaker
was really hurt. And that was a cultural divide. I'm sure my professor came in with the best of intentions, saying like, oh, I don't want to take from this shopkeeper who I see every day. But it's how they perceive the money. And it's true. Money is a sense of owing someone. So you're staying with your aunt, and it's like, oh, I'm OK with owing you something. There's this extra level to our relationship, and that your family, that I'm OK with this, versus if you're like,
00:11:50
Speaker
Oh, you let me five dollars. Let me give you that five dollars back right away. It's like I don't want to owe you anything so that we can break free of this relationship at any point. And if no one knows anyone, anything. So that's kind of the same idea. A hundred percent. It's like if you do me a favor, there's this implied desire on my end that I want continuity of the relationship. And I feel comfortable owing you because there's
00:12:19
Speaker
future for our relationship where I can pay you back on that favor.
00:12:23
Speaker
And when I go visit my parents, my boyfriend and I, we stay at my parents' place. And my brothers and I were talking about how my mom and dad would be so offended if we didn't stay at their place and we like got a hotel instead. And my mom butts in and she's like, well, yeah, if I came to stay over your place, would you want me to book a hotel? And I'm like, well, when my boyfriend's mom comes to visit us, she gets a
Benefits of Generosity: Cultural and Professional
00:12:53
Speaker
hotel.
00:12:53
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, I'm your mother. It's like incredibly offensive to her. So again, there's that implied, you owe me and you would do the same thing that I'm doing for you. Or it's like, I'm treating you how I want to be treated.
00:13:10
Speaker
Right. Like if someone else were to forget their wallet, like you would take care of them. And yeah, so it's super interesting. You find that so many times in relationships, right? There is even this thing that I saw as a psychological means that if you want someone to like you, it's actually to get them to do stuff for you.
00:13:30
Speaker
or ask them for favors which seems counterintuitive where it's like but then I'm indebted to them but people like it when they feel like you're indebted to them they like that they're being helpful or they bought you something and so that's why sometimes in these cases you'll see
00:13:48
Speaker
These men want to buy women things as well to be like, oh, she kind of owes me. I kind of like that. She kind of owes me. And the same with friendships or asking for favors with job referrals. People like feeling, oh, I gave you a referral. I did you a favor. Even though you're the one who's benefiting seemingly. Yeah. Does that make sense?
00:14:11
Speaker
No, it does. Another thing that I think is super interesting, how generous someone is, is not correlated to how much money they have. It's more of a mindset. Some of the most generous people, my parents, friends, don't necessarily always come from the most money.
00:14:34
Speaker
sometimes people with a lot of money are super transactional and so that's something that we were talking about rich versus generous and Yes, I see these tech talks where they say like I want a generous man not a wealthy man because there's a difference there is a difference and sometimes they take it further and they say that
00:14:58
Speaker
some of the wealthiest people out there are actually so used to seeing everything as a transaction or as like ROI that they're a little bit more penny-pinchy than people that just like are normal guys that have generous energy. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:20
Speaker
I've learned my money habits from my mother, who's very generous, and I do think she's so sweet, so kind, but I'm not gonna give her all the benefits of the doubt to say that she's just this benevolent, altruistic person who loves giving gifts to people, because she's told me the way she thinks about money. My mom has a very deep understanding of the world, where it's not like, oh, I'll give someone a gift, and they'll pay me back in the next year.
00:15:49
Speaker
maybe that person will pay her back in 30 years. Maybe it's not this person who's going to pay her back, but it's going to be one of the other 10 people she's helped and pay her back dividends years later. And I think having that type of personality has made her a very desirable person and like perceived as very generous. But I do know in the back of her mind, she does think about these things. And so she's always encouraged me to be very generous.
00:16:14
Speaker
I remember growing up, she was super frugal. My mom buys from Marshalls. Her nicest bag is Coach. But on the holidays, she would get people. Nikes, iPads, Prada bags. And I'm like, Mom, you've never given me an iPad. I've never owned an iPad. Don't make me so mad.
00:16:36
Speaker
I was just like, what is going on? And she would say, OK, yeah, this Prada bag cost us $2,000. But this person once referred me business, and that business was worth $100,000. But they're going to get this Prada bag and be so excited about it. And oh, well, you know, this ai, she
00:16:58
Speaker
took care of you when you were little and this is my way of giving back or I just want to be nice to this person because maybe they'll give me more clients in the future and the thing is she wouldn't think about it in that the way of when will this specific person give me back I think she hers is like general ballpark
00:17:19
Speaker
15% of the people who I'm kind to will pay me back 100x to pay for all the people who never gave me back anything, but it's just good energy to put out there. It's so interesting that you say that because now that I'm thinking about some of the best fundraisers that I know or some of the best people in client relations that I know,
00:17:43
Speaker
They come from Eastern cultures. They're either really Middle Eastern or Asian. I think there's something like in our blood that just really knows how to
00:18:01
Speaker
It's not even a generous thing because to your point, it's not an innocent generosity. We can just pick up on energy and see where it's worth it to splurge on someone because you know that there will be that level of reciprocity. And I think inherently we're more long-sighted because we have these relationships that go very, very deep. And we're good at picking up on who's probably not going to return that favor and who's going to return that favor tenfold.
00:18:31
Speaker
That's such a good point, right? There are some people who I know are, you know, they're trying to woo me, they'll pay for a dinner, but I can kind of tell that at some point, they're gonna want something back. Yes.
00:18:44
Speaker
If you hang out with my mom, she just puts out generous, good energy to everyone. She's not so calculated in it. And I think that's what makes her such a charismatic person. She's not so calculated, but she knows, okay, when I do this, this is my perception in the community and this is my perception in business. And then ultimately it's gonna come back to me. Let's try and like do the math. She gives five people Prada bags. They're each worth $2,000. That's $10,000.
00:19:13
Speaker
One person gives her a $300,000 referral to her business. You don't know, she doesn't know which person that's gonna be. But it's like, who gets Prada bags? Which one of your friends just gives you Prada bags?
00:19:27
Speaker
No one, so far. I have the wrong friends. So extreme. But then you're like, huh, who am I going to give this $300,000 business to? You're going to give it to the person who's like, wow, this is really unexpected. Maybe it's like 15 years later. They never wanted anything back, but they just wanted to be kind. You just really vibe with that person. That's the person I'm going to give back. I don't really want to give back to the person who
00:19:52
Speaker
you know, gives me something and I know there's strings attached or the way they give it to me, you can sense that there's some strings attached to it. But I think that's what good fundraisers do, right? It's like maybe you won't be the one who's going to fund my current business, but maybe my business in five, 10, 20 years, or you're going to refer someone to me because the depth of that relationship is so much deeper than just a transaction. Yes. So genius.
00:20:19
Speaker
Wow, I didn't realize my mom was so smoky calculated, but in a non-calculated way.
Financial Dynamics in Friendships
00:20:25
Speaker
No, but also to your point, it feels so good to live your life from a place of like, not world superiority, but like, I live my life knowing that I am so good to people. Yeah, and I think when my mom does get that one person who pays her back, she's like, oh, I feel validated by the universe. And thank you. It's like a...
00:20:48
Speaker
It's a form of manifestation in a way or like abundance mentality where she's like making herself magnetic by being really generous.
00:20:58
Speaker
That's so true. Yeah. And it's funny because she used to buy people like iPhones, iPads, Nikes. And I was never, I never got any of those things, you know? And so I came from a place of being like a little, like a little brat about it being like, where's my like 10 iPads, you know? I would be.
00:21:20
Speaker
But when she explained it to me, she was like, listen, it's not about that. And she's deep ingrained because it's something that's hard to teach someone. If you're not grown up with it and you don't see what it's like to tell someone, oh, just be super generous. She got more value of seeing someone's happiness when they opened up her gift than she would get from owning it for herself and walking around for herself.
00:21:47
Speaker
I feel like that would be a universal experience if people just gave more. Like, it always feels better to give. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe this is just like an us thing. But that feeling is so much more valuable than owning a material good that you're going to get tired of. You know what's so funny? You know, love languages, I actually don't like getting gifts, but I love giving gifts.
00:22:12
Speaker
It brings me so much happiness to give someone a very thoughtful gift. Like six months ago when we were shopping, you really liked this dress and you just thought it was like too extravagant for yourself. But that's, that's so interesting. What about you? I, I mean, I agree. And I also get really proud of myself when I was thoughtful with my gift. I'm like, I did so good. Which is maybe a demented way of thinking about it, but
00:22:42
Speaker
I like receiving gifts, but I also think that I have a complicated relationship with gift giving as a love language because as a child, I always knew how tight my parents were about money.
00:23:03
Speaker
I did receive something. I was like, oh, are you sure? I don't know. I still think I have that guilt a little bit where I'm like, oh, you shouldn't have spent that money or you shouldn't have spent that much. Yeah. So I get very uncomfortable when people are like overly generous to me because I'm like, wait, are you sure? Yeah. I'll also say, I think another reason I think gifts can also be very manipulative.
00:23:32
Speaker
Let's say like some older man gives you some designer bag. What does this mean? I know we say, Oh, you don't owe him anything. I don't feel right about someone giving me a very expensive gift and just be like, you know? Yeah. They want to make you feel indebted. They want to make you feel indebted. That's it. And there have been cases where people have done that. And so that's why I'm a little bit wary of certain gifts, but
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I think I would always rather have someone owe me than me owe them. And that that goes with like eating out or like someone covered in Uber. So then I'll cover the next two ubers or Yes. Yeah. I also think it's interesting at this stage of life to
00:24:30
Speaker
make friends like in our situation where we're in similar stages in our careers. And we know that financially there's not a huge imbalance, but also like we come from that very like giving culture. So it's like, I met you and I was like, oh, Eleanor's another VC. And, you know, we're kind of like on the same playing field and I would put her in the same bucket as every other woman in the industry that I know, I just met.
00:25:00
Speaker
But then it's like, you get to know each other more and then it's like, oh, okay, so we do actually speak the same language and we didn't know that we spoke the same language. And so how does that now play out? I think the way in which me and my friends transact, and I'm sure there's friends who I probably, if I were to like, you know, count it, owe them money where, oh, I'll stay with them. I'll drink their coffee when I stay with them, or they'll stay in my apartment.
00:25:25
Speaker
you know, and the crash on my couch and spending a week in someone's apartment in New York is a good amount of money, right? That you're saving because you have your friend and you're in their space. But yeah, it's like, oh, but when I come to Miami, you'll you I'll stay at yours and you'll stay at mine when you come to New York and it's and then like, you'll eat my snacks in the fridge. And I saw a big shift from college because I think when we were all in college, it was a lot more clean cut because all of us were college students. We weren't really making any money.
00:25:54
Speaker
roll bros. Yeah. But then when, now I think we're a lot of us in their position where we have good savings. And so for me, I'm like, yeah, someone owes me
00:26:05
Speaker
That doesn't really matter to me. What's the cost of friendship to you, right? I don't want to be like, Hey, remember when you stayed at my place and you borrowed this and you did that, you know? But that comes from a place of privilege where I don't care. I wouldn't even notice it. And it's such a small price to pay for some really amazing friendships. And I am more than happy to host my really good friends with me and the whole like doing a favor. It makes me happy to be able to give you a place to stay when you're in New York, you know? Yeah, it's like,
00:26:36
Speaker
I don't know what to call it. It's not ambiance, but you just want to be around your friend's energy. I love when people sleep over because I'm like, I get to wake up and you're right there. That's so amazing. So it's not even like.
00:26:49
Speaker
Oh, you're here and you're taking up my space or I don't even think it doesn't cross my mind. I'm so happy to have people around. But again, it's been my experience with some people that they do think very literally about someone having half of their box of saltines and like the dollar amount. Yeah. And I think, you know, money has ruined a lot of relationships with people. And I think some people have
00:27:17
Speaker
just like my mom taught me, have a generous mindset.
Resolving Financial Conflicts in Friendships
00:27:20
Speaker
I do know I have friends whose parents will say that, let's just keep it clean. It's easier, you know? Cause people have had horror stories where someone took advantage of them, took advantage of their kindness. I've had someone take advantage of my kindness. I haven't let that scar me and make me not want to be generous, but it is easier and a little bit more clean cut to just be like, let's be very transactional.
00:27:44
Speaker
It can slightly offend people, but I think it's finding that balance, knowing who you're dealing with and where they're coming from. Yeah. I'm trying to think if I've had any experiences that have burned me. I have a few that maybe I'll share on the future podcast. I think I've told you.
00:28:06
Speaker
But I'm still very generous. I've had people who have low-key squatted at my apartment and stay longer than the few days and then wear my designer coats and do all this stuff. And I'm still very happy to host my friends. I'm not going to let that one poor judge of character or someone's lack of thinking for a moment
00:28:30
Speaker
So Amy, I would say like probably the person that owes me the most in the world is my brother. But emotional labor is so much too. Let's just say that. Well, yeah, emotional labor wise and financial labor wise, but it's fine. He's my brother. Yeah. And it's one of those things where because you're family, you're not going to think, oh, well, one day he's going to give me this and that. He's family, you know, doesn't really matter.
00:29:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think money within family dynamics is super complicated, especially like at various points of life. There are points in life where, you know, family relationships are like any relationship. They ebb and flow. And I think there's this
00:29:23
Speaker
assumed love and presumed longevity in familial relationships but you know I have relationships with like certain aunts and uncles that used to be incredibly strong that are like now non-existent and it's hard because when you put money into the equation you're expected to act like those relationships will always be rock solid and so
00:29:52
Speaker
when you do hit points in life where those relationships are straight and you're like, I've dedicated like, you know, lots of resources to this relationship. And it's now beyond the point of repair. It does leave like a little bit of a sour taste in your mouth. And I think for me growing up, one of my lessons has been to maybe not be as generous or
00:30:19
Speaker
innocent in assuming that people will always be there for me in the ways that I want them to be because you can think that somebody is as close to you as like a body part and then all of a sudden they just are not in the picture anymore. And I think it's even more scarring coming from our culture.
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like we're both being a little cryptic because even when we were talking about this episode, right? These are very personal things to us. And even people who we don't have relationships with, it's still personal when you're no longer close to them or someone's, there's been conflict airing all that out. It's almost easier to do with exes because those are out of your life. But even with ex-friends, it's still like, oof, you know, maybe they'll come back and, you know, we'll repair that friendship at some point. I think just to like respect people's
00:31:07
Speaker
and anonymity, I won't go into who is like cut out and why, but yeah, I'll say in order to preserve my mental health, I've like cut off family members for various reasons, very, very different reasons. But as I got older, I put up stronger boundaries. It's tough. That's a whole other thing of growing up and people who you thought were going to be in your life forever are going to be bridesmaids, super close people who are family to you.
00:31:37
Speaker
then realizing, oh, you were a really important part of one chapter of my life, but not anymore. And that's okay. And yeah, you're not going to be there anymore. And sometimes money is involved. Sometimes it's not involved. Sometimes it's like a principal thing, a values thing. Something that I was thinking about is, you know, a framework that I think about money and relationships and friendships is how much is it worth to you?
00:32:07
Speaker
right? There are times where I've had conflicts or disagreements about money, but then when I take a step back and I think, you know, friendships are so hard to come by, like really meaningful friendships, that it shouldn't be
00:32:26
Speaker
is $200, $60, $1,000 really worth that friendship. It's a whole different story if they impeded on your boundaries, but I am in a pretty lucky position where unless it's in like
00:32:40
Speaker
you screwed me in the tens of thousands of dollars. If you didn't principally do anything wrong, could forgive you. And it's like the value of this friendship is so much more meaningful. You hear people say I would like this about this friendship is priceless to me, right? So sometimes there are times where I'm like, you know what, you owe me more.
00:32:58
Speaker
I don't even want to have this this conflict with you. I'll go ahead and pay for it like $200 $500 like I'll just demo it because when I take a step back It's not worth losing the relationship There are times where like yeah like I had to pay I think $600 for a trip. I didn't even go on because someone else didn't communicate correctly and I
00:33:25
Speaker
It was annoying to me that I had to do that. But you know what? I value this friendship. I'll just do it. It's fine. But then was the friendship the same after that? Not because of money. That comes from such a luxury, right? Like
00:33:42
Speaker
If this was me in college, if someone was like, oh, you didn't go on this weekend trip, but we're still going to Venmo you $600 for things we booked.
Using Money for Convenience in Relationships
00:33:51
Speaker
I would have been like, heck no. Let me fight. Let me do whatever. But then recently when this happened, I was like, you know what? I don't even care. I'll Venmo you. It's not worth the headache, you know? Yeah, to be completely candid.
00:34:08
Speaker
Now that I work for myself, I had a very different mindset towards money and all of my money scarcity anxiety kicks back in at full force when I didn't have my cushy salary anymore.
00:34:24
Speaker
And I remember talking to one of my friends about going to a Pilates class that was like a 15-minute Uber ride away from me. I don't drive. And I remember being like, oh, the Pilates class is $40. The Uber there is $25. The Uber ride back is $25. And all of a sudden, you're spending $90 for an hour-long hangout. And we're not even talking to each other during the hangout. And I'm like, oh, I love you so much. But that just feels so expensive to me right now.
00:34:54
Speaker
And it's crazy to think about that because had that been me in January, I'd be like, fuck yeah, I don't care. Which is a super privileged place to come from, but it's so hard to maintain perspective on what is privilege and what isn't.
00:35:09
Speaker
because within like three months I've been in very different financial positions and it's like what I feel in that moment I feel like has been my entire lived experience. So you forget about when you were coming at it from a more privileged perspective and you forget when you were on the other side of it as well. So it's hard to hold space for everyone else's feelings around money as well.
00:35:33
Speaker
And for instance, in the case where I had to defend with someone else, they were in graduate school. Granted, they came from money, but they were in graduate school, so they had a scarcity mind that they weren't having a reliable paycheck come in. And so for me, it was like, what's worth the headache? And we're going to talk about my mom again, because it just reminded me, my mom
00:36:02
Speaker
She always said, why do you work so hard and make money if you can't buy convenience? Because that is probably one of the most powerful things that money can buy you. And that probably caps out at a certain area. Cause most things you can make convenient for yourself, right? Where she was like, is it worth you to have this stress in your life? Let's flip it in reverse, right? I'll give you a $600 to have conflict with your friend.
00:36:32
Speaker
and be really stressful for you, have to step out of meetings during the day, to hop on a call to work things out. For $600, would you do that? No. Yeah, no. And so I'm like, you know what? Just take the $600. Yes, it's different because it's already yours, and you wouldn't have otherwise. I'm like the principal of having to deal with it. I think that's just like miscommunication. When I think about it the way my mom breaks it down, it's like, yeah, it's not worth it. Or there were times where I had
00:37:02
Speaker
honestly like pretty horrible real estate agents who are so horrible to communicate with like wouldn't pay for this and that but it would be oh i would get $200 back and $200 is great like that's like there's a lot you can buy with $200 you can go to a concert you can go to multiple nice dinners
00:37:19
Speaker
But I was more willing to fight for that because on principle, I thought that was ridiculous. And my principal kicked in versus like, are you willing to go through a stressful and angry exchange with this real estate agent to get $200 back? That's what my values took over and I wasn't realistic. But when it comes to friendships, it's a whole different story. I never want to talk to that real estate agent again, but my friendship, I did value. Yeah.
00:37:46
Speaker
And it's different as well because sometimes like I will be tit for tat over a small amount of money because I'm like the principal. And yeah, I do enjoy arguing sometimes though. So I think I'm a slightly different personality than you. I like a little bit of conflict. Yeah. Yeah. And it depends, right? Like when I was in banking, I was like, you know what? Just leave me alone. I cannot take a digital stress versus I'm on,
00:38:11
Speaker
you know, a more chill time. I'm like, you know what? Let's fight. Or let's say someone, sometimes what will happen is I'll like get into an argument with a boyfriend or something. And I get this like nasty email from someone. I'm like, let's go. You caught me. Let's freaking go. I have energy to fight. I'm not in my zen. Like, it'll be fine. Money is just a number. This is not going to actually impact me like zen zel. I'm in the
00:38:41
Speaker
I'll pick a fight with anyone who looks at me wrong. Yeah. But yeah, that was like a good framework that my mom used to value things because things are, sometimes things are about the principle, but if it's just, oh, they just make a little bit less money than me, or they have a scarcity mindset, you know, thinking, I might not understand why someone won't be willing to pay for this, but
00:39:06
Speaker
I'll just cover the cost because I really valued this friendship. And as long as it's not like something that they're doing to me that I think is wrong and not being a good friend, that's a whole different thing. It's just about the money. Then I'm in the privilege and why do I work so hard for my money and have all this money if I can't pay for this? You know, if I can't be helpful and take care of it, you know?
Podcast Conclusion and Personal Investment
00:39:26
Speaker
Yeah. It's really good advice from your mom. She's very wise.
00:39:35
Speaker
And then there's like the whole other category of money and dating. If you want to. Oh my God. Yeah. Should we get into it right now?
00:39:47
Speaker
We can get into it. Maybe we'll break this up into a two-parter, and you'll get to hear our many opinions on money, relationships, dating, and the next one. Thanks for tuning in, guys. As a reminder, our handle's Pretty Invested Media everywhere. We're on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram. If you enjoyed the episode, please rate us on Apple or Spotify, wherever you're listening to us, and stay pretty invested. The best investment you can make is in yourself.