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Confessions of a Former Investment Banker - I'm Too Hot for This
217 Plays1 year ago
On this episode, Eleanor and LD chat with “double threat” Ana Bharadwaj, a Growth Equity Investor (former Investment Banker) and new Solidcore Miami instructor! They chat about career strategies, human design, evolving beyond the “Girl Boss” mentality, and debate Miami v. New York v. SF.
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Pretty Invested Media and this related information does not constitute professional or financial advice of any kind (including business, employment, investment advisory, accounting, tax, and/or legal advice). Advice from a suitably qualified professional should always be sought in relation to any particular matter or circumstance.
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Transcript
Introduction to Anna and Her Background
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Pretty Invested. I'm Eleanor and this is LB. Presented by your favorite ex-finance bros. We talk about the money things you actually care about.
00:00:12
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Today we have a very special episode. My good friend Anna is joining us and as a definition of beauty and brains. She's currently an investor at Founder Circle Capital doing growth equity investing and was previously at Catalyst Partners, one of the most elite tech investment banking firms outside of San Francisco. And she now lives in Miami and very much so embodies the ideals of Pretty Invested. So thank you, Anna, for joining us. We're super excited to have you.
00:00:41
Speaker
Thanks so much for having me guys, super excited for Confo. Yeah, I'm so jealous. You guys are both in Miami and in person. I wish I could be there. Anna, let's just like get into it. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you landed in Miami doing growth equity investing?
00:01:00
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So I actually grew up in Princeton, New Jersey, living kind of right outside of New York. And when I went off to school, really had no idea what I wanted to do. I kind of thought I wanted to be an accountant, you know, really liked learning about businesses and economics growing up. So just thought that business would be
Anna's Journey into Investment Banking
00:01:17
Speaker
a good fit.
00:01:17
Speaker
So I went to Northeastern up in Boston, felt like I was far enough away from home and from my parents, but also not, you know, too, too far away. So it was great because I got to do the co-op program there, which you go and you intern at places for six months long at a time.
00:01:32
Speaker
And kind of through my entire time at Northeastern, did a couple of different co-ops, one being in accounting at PwC in Boston, absolutely hated it. So kind of knew that, you know, that career, that personality wise was just not a fit for me. So pivoted over to finance, but really had no idea what like investment banking was, what in finance I wanted to do any of that. So it was a lot of trial and error. And you know, I spent six months out in London working at Wellington Management Company, and then six months in New York at Morgan Stanley in Sales and Trade.
00:02:02
Speaker
And through my time at Morgan Stanley, you know, I talked to a lot of different analysts there and they were all leaving S&T to go into a massive big game. And I kind of was like, okay, that's pretty interesting because I look at my team and a lot of the women that were there had come from very technical roles beforehand. So the team I was on was definitely more sales oriented. And the advice I got from my mentor was,
00:02:27
Speaker
you should probably start at a place that gives you the broadest technical skills that you can ever get. And then you can go do the sales stuff if that fits you better or kind of stay with the technical stuff.
00:02:39
Speaker
and build a career in that. So I would say I kind of just found myself in investment banking, which sounds crazy, but that's really how I ended up materializing because I ended up coming back from MS. My senior year had no clue what I wanted to do, was like, oh, maybe I'll think about thinking, maybe consulting. I really wanted to go into consulting, but couldn't even get myself to prep for case studies. So I was like, hmm, maybe this is not the career path for me again. And talking to a couple of my friends, they all were like,
00:03:09
Speaker
investment banking is kind of something that you should consider and like look into. And I was interning at a growth equity fund out in Boston called some partners at the time. And that was the same advice that I kept getting from my managing partner in there as well. And he was like, you should probably go do the two year stint and then you can come back to investing. Cause I really liked that aspect of things personally really liked a little bit earlier than what summit did. I knew I wanted to be in kind of venture growth, tech,
00:03:36
Speaker
that was my first introduction really into like B2B software and like what that meant and like what the tech world was.
Realizations and Reflections in Investment Banking
00:03:43
Speaker
So I found myself, you know, recruiting for an innocent baking job two months before I graduated. And yeah, so that was again, like now looking back, I think it was me just having enough like naivete to just think that it could happen for it to happen because most of these investment baking roles specifically are taken up like two years ahead
00:04:05
Speaker
So a lot of people will go intern at a bank, either their sophomore summer or junior summer and get a return offer, come back. And that's how most classes tend to get like filled up. So there are very few rules that they even open up for on campus recruiting. And even then a lot of it is very much driven to the schools that they kind of cherry pick to go on and invest at. And that's also done in the fall, like kind of the latest real time frame you're looking at to recruit on cycle would be like the fall of your senior year for
00:04:34
Speaker
some of these roles. So I ended up, you know, just having to reach out to a ton of different folks, learning about their experiences, got kind of lucky with timing of things and ended up landing my job in investment banking. And it was definitely grilling, but I think something that I would definitely go back and redo if I had to do, because it really does, at least for me personally, I feel like it set me up for like
00:04:58
Speaker
the job that I have now and for just understanding the difference, different nuances between investing as well and kind of being able to figure out like what I liked and what I didn't like in my prior roles and being able to find like something that I really am passionate about. Did you go into the industry because you liked finance? Did you go into it because you saw it as a launchpad to get you into tech?
00:05:23
Speaker
Or were you just really mature about saying, okay, I know I have to grind it out for two years and then that's going to pay off dividends and whatever that looks like. I just know that it's going to give me optionality. It was kind of a combination of just being like, you know what, this is going to suck for the two years that I have to do it, but it is a launch pad to kind of go and do whatever it is that you want after. Whether that's staying in an asset banking, going and working in a startup.
00:05:49
Speaker
working at a hedge fund, working in growth. So it just opens up the door for a lot of things that you wanted. I was never the type of person that was like, I'm going to go to NYU Stern and get a job at Goldman Sachs and investment banking, like right after college. Like I didn't know what investment banking was when I went to school. Right. And like, I didn't really, I remember being in like, when I was getting my first S and T job.
00:06:12
Speaker
I was studying up for it. And I was like, Oh, like, this is actually way more markets. And in my head, I was like, I thought baking was markets. And my some of my friends that had, you know, been studying and also making an S&T and all of that from day one, we're like, No, banking is like transactions, especially on the day and like,
00:06:29
Speaker
What you're doing is market. So if you don't like that, you're not going to like S and T. So I would say it was really not necessarily stemming from me knowing a lot about finance.
Tech and Entrepreneurship Influences
00:06:39
Speaker
Like both my parents don't work in finance. My dad works in software engineering and my mom was a logical engineer as well. So they had no real insights into like, Hey, like you should go do this type of career path. And it was more like understanding longer term. I probably wanted to be.
00:06:56
Speaker
in tech BC specifically. I really wanted to, I was very focused on being at a tech focused firm. Hence why I ended up at a place like Catalyst where you're working with a lot of BC backed startups, a lot of different private or even public companies that had the investor list of a firm that I would want to work for. And learning about those businesses from an M&A perspective really helps you when you kind of go over to the buy side, but it was kind of a shared combination of being like, I'm just going to try this out and
00:07:25
Speaker
hoping that it worked out and it ended up working out. That's so interesting. I feel like when I went into my career, I guess endeavors, I based everything off of vibes. And it wasn't like as thought out about it. My parents also like had no idea, like nothing about nothing. But do you feel like
00:07:50
Speaker
Like where did your passion for tech come from? Was it in seeing that your parents were like technical people and like wanting to go into the more enterprise side of it or like innovation or was it just something unique? Yeah, it was like not a lot from my parents at all. Cause it's not like they were working at like a startup, you know, we were in Prince of New Jersey and dad was working on software engineer at a hospital. So it was not at all like driven from that. It was more so when I got to school,
00:08:19
Speaker
I was part of this campus club called IDEA, where we were basically helping seed these different startups and saw when I really get friends, kind of ran that IDEA program as like CEO of IDEA. So absorbed a lot of what she was learning through that. And they were, it wasn't all just tech, you know, there was a lot of CPG, like a lot of what you typically think of for a student on startup, but they were essentially doing very, very early stage VC.
00:08:44
Speaker
because they had an idea fund and you would look at these different companies and startups and kind of decide, hey, we're going to give them a couple thousand dollars for their business. And even just kind of seeing that, I think Boston has a very entrepreneurial spirit. So I was like always kind of doing something on that front. I was working at NEBCA, which is like the New England Venture Capital Association my freshman year, just like helping them do events. So it was exposed to that ecosystem and then senior year,
00:09:11
Speaker
me and a couple of friends ended up starting a club called Hunting to the Angels, where what we were essentially doing was we were going and choosing like different Boston-based startups. So it could be either different college kids out of MIT, Harvard, Northeastern, BU, and helping connect them to different angels and VCs. So it was more on the relationship aspect because we were building out a pipeline of startups for deal flow for different VCs.
00:09:34
Speaker
But I got really invested into wanting to learn about that as a career path and spent time with investors. And Boston being what it is, it was a lot of tech and biotech. So I ended up having that exposure. And then Summit, of course, was more enterprise focused around like B2B SaaS specifically. So I saw a lot of companies in that space and knew that that was kind of the most exciting combination for me was like the finance piece from
00:10:00
Speaker
what I was learning in school on that kind of like tech piece, which was just a lot more with innovation. Yeah. And I think it's also super impressive. The fact that you got an investment banking job two months before graduating. Cause like you said, so many people have to start recruiting. Now I hear like sophomore year or junior year of their college experience in order to get one of those jobs. So I think you said that you like.
00:10:28
Speaker
manifested your role and was already in that like Dooloo had that confidence. How did you get into that mindset of, oh, I'm just going to go for it. Do you manifested it in some type of way? Yeah, I feel like now, especially with like TikTok being like manifesting and like Dooloo is like such a topic that we kind of talk about and think about doing. But I really have just kind of innately been like that.
00:10:57
Speaker
And I feel like I've been like manifesting from a really young age for a lot of different things without really recognizing what I was doing. Like my friends from high school would always say like, Oh, like, I don't know how like shit just like ends up working out for you. And we just like don't know how.
00:11:13
Speaker
It's all like random little things, right? I'm just like, it's just going to happen. I don't know how I have no idea how it's going to get figured out, but I know that it's going to happen. And things always work out in that way. And now, like becoming a little bit more spiritually aware and kind of understanding the infestation more, I'm a little more conscious of it. But I think especially when I was younger and in college,
00:11:34
Speaker
I had no idea what I was doing. I was just like, oh, a banking job? It always takes me back to that Elle Woods line in Legally Blonde, where she's like, oh. They're like, you're at Harvard Law. And she's like, what? It's hard. And that was always kind of just my motto growing up. I was like, yeah, of course we can get a banking job in two months. But I think it was a combination of having that confidence, but also
00:11:57
Speaker
having a little bit of naiveness and not really understanding how difficult that was. Cause I think if I was truly aware of like, Hey, there's probably like 10 spots left in an S a banking across all different firms and roles that you could get, I'd probably be like, Oh, I am just like completely screwed. Like, how am I going to do this?
00:12:17
Speaker
especially coming from Northeastern, which it's
Pandemic Reflections and Spiritual Growth
00:12:21
Speaker
a strong school, but a lot of these places will end up recruiting Ivy League only or Stanford, MIT, Duke, a lot of places that are known for having very, very strong business schools and programs. If I had known how challenging it would be, I think maybe we would be having a very different conversation. It's a little bit about
00:12:38
Speaker
You know, we say this with entrepreneurs a lot. You kind of look for a little bit of naivete, but not too much. So they're aware of like the challenges they have to face, but they're also a little delusional enough to be like, yeah, I got it. So it's kind of having that balance in between.
00:12:54
Speaker
I read this book about mindsets and I feel like that's kind of the definition of growth mindset. It's not just your naivete but coming across a tough situation wherein there aren't that many spots and not getting discouraged and just putting in the effort and doing because it's not like you just
00:13:12
Speaker
You know, Laidina and I talked about this. It's not just like, oh, I'm going to get an investment gain job. You grind it. You talk to a bunch of people and you put in the effort. So I think it's very much a growth mindset. It is definitely like a lot. That's what I think it's a lot of like luck. Because even when I got out, I was like, wow, like you're just so lucky. And I think that luck is really just hitting your right opportunity at the right time, but also having the preparedness, you know, and being able to kind of
00:13:41
Speaker
do all the work and keep doing the work until it ends up sticking. Cause yes, like I ended up making it happen, but I kind of still grinded a lot. Like I remember coming home from all my meetings and classes and having finals and exams, and I would stay up until like 3 AM going through our alumni directory or like scraping LinkedIn using like tools like on the web to like get people's emails to cold email them and just be like, Hey, I know it's like a super long shop, but like,
00:14:11
Speaker
any chance that we can chat about this. So it is a lot of like hard work that goes on behind the scenes, but it's also, you know, kind of having the mindset that you know, it's going to happen, which is why you're willing to kind of grind and do the work. Exactly. When do you feel like you tapped into, because it sounds to me like you have this intuition that was kind of guiding you.
00:14:35
Speaker
to each spot in your life and like we can call it delusion, we can call it intuition, inner knowing, magnetism, whatever. But when do you feel like you became aware of it? I would say COVID was probably where I really started.
00:14:50
Speaker
to become more self-aware and understand a lot of these different things. Because that was also when tech talks started getting really big. And I started listening to more podcasts. I would say COVID was probably one of the hardest points of my life, probably for a lot of people. It was one of the most challenging things that we've ever been through in our lifetime. And it gave, especially me, a lot of period of reflection on me still being in banking, kind of deciding what I wanted to do next
00:15:19
Speaker
and trying to figure out where I wanted to end up and what I really wanted from that. Because as much as I can say baking was a great experience, and it was a great launch pad, there were also really, really hard days. And there were days during COVID where I came home to my parents' house, but I was working West Coast hours. And I would be up when they went to bed, and they would wake up at 7 AM, and I would still be in the same exact place, like haven't moved.
00:15:45
Speaker
And it's really depressing when you watch the sun come up and like, you know, multiple days in a row. So there were very, very hard times and challenges that you had to go through to get to the point of, you know, leaving from there. But also a lot of that helps you kind of understand for yourself what you want out of life. And if what you're doing is really fulfilling you. And I think that's when I started to become just a lot more aware of like, interesting how things have worked for me in the past in this way.
00:16:15
Speaker
And that's something that I still kind of do in BC. We call it like pattern matching and we like actively try to do it with like, Oh, like, you know, Uber followed XYZ pattern. How can I spot that in an entrepreneur? How can I spot that in a business? And I was almost doing that with like my own self on like, Hmm, like how did I actually end up in investment banking? Like that kind of materialized in a very like way that it might, it shouldn't have, you know, and started getting a little bit more intentional about like,
00:16:45
Speaker
how these opportunities came to be and really realizing how much power your mind has in making those opportunities arise. And then being like, okay, well, I'm not super happy with where I am right now with my current role with what I want next. So how am I going to make that new thing up here? And that's where I started to get a little bit more awareness.
Relocation and Personal Growth in Miami
00:17:04
Speaker
It's like what I was doing unconsciously. Yeah.
00:17:08
Speaker
What were some of the podcasts you mentioned? There was one situation where Miami had this sort of coincidence beyond coincidence. Yeah. So I moved to Miami around March last year, and I was actually supposed to move to LA because I hated that stuff. Ended up recruiting for a fund out in San Francisco, and I started August of 2021.
00:17:34
Speaker
So I was remote the entire time that I had started from. And it was always a, hey, like maybe we'll go back at a certain date and time. And I was like, I'm not leaving SF if I don't have to till then. And it was still very early and I kind of was like, maybe I'll live in LA and like go to SF when I need to, but it was still very much like I needed to be in California. So I was going to move to LA and I don't know what, like I had kind of this calling in me that I was like,
00:17:59
Speaker
Let me just try out Miami because it was the year, like I was 20, 22. So it was like right after everyone had done the COVID thing, I was like, everyone in tech spent some time there. Like, I just want to see what it's about. This might be my last chance to not live in California. So let me just go see. And I ended up coming to Miami and fell in love with the city, just fell in love with the way that I felt here. And I realized like later down the line, how much it just aligned kind of with my soul. Cause during when I was living at home during COVID,
00:18:27
Speaker
I was listening to this podcast called Pursuit of Bliss by this woman, Kristin Jana. And she talked a lot about manifestation and how her own life changed. And that's when I really started to get more awareness. It's like what even manifestation was, like what, how much your mindset affects you and loved her podcast. And she would always talk about like her floor to ceiling windows. And like, she never mentioned my inbox in any of her podcasts. She was just kind of saying like,
00:18:54
Speaker
my apartment is this and I like really feel like I manifested this and I was like I just like want that for myself like I want the sunshine and I want to be in a certain area and like all these different ties to what she was talking about just deeply resonated with me and you know fast forward two years I moved to Miami having a great time met a couple of my friends randomly she posts a photo with
00:19:16
Speaker
this girl, Kristin Gemma, and I'm like, wait, how do you know her? And she's like, oh, she was my old roommate. And she lives in the building that I currently live in. So I'm like, that's pretty insane. That's so crazy. She would talk about like her lifestyle and her apartment, everything. I just want that. And I'm living in the exact same building that she lives in. That's so wild. Really droopy.
00:19:40
Speaker
Yeah. And you also talked about how you didn't love SF and you spent some time in New York as well. Why is Miami the new home? I mean, at this point, it kind of has become. So I was supposed to leave at the end of June last year. I was doing my three month Miami State and then I was supposed to move back to California and loved Miami so much that I ended up talking to work and they were like, you know, you can end up staying remote.
00:20:09
Speaker
I was like, I want to stay between New York and Miami. Like I don't really want to be in California. It's just not for me. And they were kind enough to be like, you know what, stay remote, do your thing. So super happy. I spent the summer in New York and then moved back to Miami later this fall. And honestly, I have been loving Florida. I think it's just like I said, it just there's something about it that feels super aligned with just my entire being. Like every time I come back to Miami and I land here, I'm like, I feel like I'm at home.
00:20:38
Speaker
versus even when I go to New York, it's just a different energy. And I think all cities have their own like energy and being in Miami allows me to just relax a lot more into my like soft side, into my feminine energy and really embrace that part. And I think some of it was timing, right? Like in banking, you have to have a lot more of that kind of like masculine energy. The work just requires a very different side if you would come out and venture does.
00:21:05
Speaker
I think a lot of it is the city too. I need to be in sunshine. I realize that I cannot do the cold winters. I can't do very depressing rainy days, although I know it's basically hurricane in here today. But in general, I need the vitamin D, I need the water views, and there's just a calming presence that I have every time I'm here, which is funny because a lot of people say,
00:21:29
Speaker
Miami's all partying and all you guys do is that aspect. And you definitely can. Like that's definitely a big part of the culture that's in Miami. But I think living here full time is different because there's also a big wellness culture and like spirituality culture here as well. And people want to learn and grow about those different ways. Like a lot of my friends that I made here are some of the most like emotionally in tune people that I've met versus, you know, being in New York or SF.
00:21:56
Speaker
they might be very sharp and smart and come from really cool backgrounds and all of that. But emotional awareness for whatever reason feels a lot higher in Miami. And I think it goes back into like being able to tap voice your feminine and like feeling that softer side. I've never thought about it that way. But there's something I'm from New York, but there's something about people in New York that always
00:22:17
Speaker
Not always, but rubs me the wrong way a lot of times because I feel I'm speaking from like a certain level of like evolve-ness. And they're just not fully in tune with themselves. You're like, you know what, you can tell someone needs to go to therapy. That's how I feel about interacting with people in New York. It's like they're speaking from their heads and not really their chest. And that, I don't know, like I've probably been that person a lot, but I feel like when I moved to Miami, my hormones really baked.
00:22:46
Speaker
and like matured. Yeah. Like I understand like my body and how it affects my mind and my moods. And like, I think the quietness of the city also lets you like really, it's like your intuition kind of like echoes in the room with you. And it's like a voice outside, not to sound like crazy. But yeah, like I just feel that Miami has helped me gain clarity on like my career goals and like
00:23:13
Speaker
my relationships to look like, what I want my relationship with my body to look like, how much I value money and superficial things and how it's different from what it was like when I was living in New York. I think New York definitely has a different energy.
00:23:31
Speaker
If you had to rank SF in New York in Miami, how would you rank SF? SF, I'm like, we're not even ranking it. I'm like, I'm just such an SF singer. I think it was kind of combination of the city. It's just not really my vibe at all. Especially coming from New York, some of my friends in New York were like, you are moving to San Francisco. And I was like, yeah, I guess. I'd be like, you're just so not SF.
00:23:56
Speaker
My idea of a great time is not hiking in town at 9am or going to a hacker house party. You know, it's just was not aligned on that front and then also working a lot and kind of associating that with the city. I think I just don't really love it. And it's really sad to see how it has kind of declined in the last two years.
00:24:19
Speaker
But SF for me was just not a fit. I think California in general, I really liked LA, but now even LA looked there for three months over the summer and I thought I was gonna move there, but I kind of feel like Miami's a better version of LA. I mean, I don't really drive that much, so that's a big thing. And I feel like people are just a lot more outgoing and friendly here than they were over there. But I really think for me, Miami personally has been the best place that I've lived and the most
00:24:47
Speaker
got to feel kind of in tune with myself and you just have a different sense of clarity than I did
Balancing Masculine and Feminine Energies
00:24:53
Speaker
in New York. And even now when I visit New York, I have such a lot of hate with it because I grew up going to New York. I remember, you know, Christmas time with my family all the time going there and I have very, very like fond memories of the city, but there's still just something about it energetically that doesn't feel good. And I notice it. And it's funny because my friends, especially from here, will notice it too when I'm in New York.
00:25:15
Speaker
I'm like tell me about something like you're just a lot more angry and just I just feel like a lot more on edge and like Anxious and like mad that I do when I land in Miami. I'm like, okay. I feel like peaceful again I don't know what it is. I think it's cuz in New York that energy is different
00:25:31
Speaker
You're just around like sensory overload and you're around so many different people. And like, I really think as humans, we're like super intuitive beings. So you start picking up energies of all these random people that you might not want to be picking up. And it just, at least for me, like sucks the life out of me a lot of the time. So I don't think that I would ever move, move back to New York at this point. I think like outside of New York is great and I love like being able to visit, but living there is quite like difficult.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I'm sad because I remember when we met in Miami, you were like, Oh, maybe I'll move to New York. And, you know, in the fall, I'm going to move to New York. So I'm sad that you're not coming. But
00:26:13
Speaker
I think it's true and I think there's something to be said about your stage of life too. New York I think is so excellent, particularly Manhattan when you're really young. Everyone lives in specific neighborhoods and then once you get into your mid-20s people start moving to
00:26:36
Speaker
And I think that's their way of also kind of saying, you know, it's a lot to be in such a fast paced environment, you can
00:26:45
Speaker
feel the energy, not to be too woo woo about it. But it can be good in certain senses. What might be stimulating for some might be too much for a person who's also already very highly motivated and a little bit more type A. So I don't know. I still hope you guys move back or do some sort of snow bird between Miami and New York and figure something out. My wallet doesn't want me to move back.
00:27:13
Speaker
Yeah, once New York figures out its tax situation, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you guys are always welcome here. Stay with me. So just come visit. But yeah, so you also mentioned that Miami is a lot more spiritual and that you become a lot more spiritual in your time here.
00:27:34
Speaker
I think we've all kind of gone through that transition, especially as we've gotten older, where maybe your environment or the people you're around, it's a lot more rational and scientific. How did you come to embrace the more self feminine, spiritual, whatever you want to call it side? Yeah, we're like, how did you go from smart girl boss to
00:27:59
Speaker
believes in manifesting prioritizes, feminine energy, well-rounded person. Cause I, I struggled with that too. Yeah. I would say like, even when I was like in my girl boss era, I was never a person that like made that part of my identity. Cause I think a lot of people are like, I am going to be a girl boss and I'm going to play with the boys and I'm going to beat the boys and like take it over. And I think for me, that was never like really the intention of like,
00:28:27
Speaker
wanting to even go into finance, I kind of was like, it's not that hard. All these guys trying to make it seem like it's way more fancy than it is. And it's really not. So I was like, I know I can do this probably better than half a few. So I'm just gonna do it. But once I was there, I was never like, I'm gonna like go on my way to like, fight to the top. And this is kind of our talk about why there are not that many women in finance is sure, I think it's a little bit of a systematic issue where
00:28:54
Speaker
you have a lot of men and it's a very male dominated industry and you kind of end up picking your successors to be people who are like you. And that's just kind of how the industry has always been run. But I think a lot of it again is because a lot of women don't necessarily want to be there. You know, when I was helping run recruiting for banking, they were like, please like go talk to some girls on campus and like, let's try to get more women to apply. And I was like, sure, we can do that. But
00:29:22
Speaker
You know, you can bring in an analyst class that's half men, half women. And for some reason, more men end up staying to be associate, VP, MD, and moving up. And I think a lot of it is a lot of women have more of like that feminine side where they're like, this is just not a line. You really need to be a lot in your masculine and being driving from that. And you can't prioritize your partner potentially having a family, children down the line, the same way that, you know, your potential husband might be able to do.
00:29:52
Speaker
And I think it's just being okay with those differences and not being like, I have to do everything that my male counterpart can do because we are different. And I think like energetically, we are like very, very different and there's massive and feminine energy in all of us. And I think it's being able to be conscious enough with yourself to know like, Hey, this might not be the best thing for me.
00:30:16
Speaker
Like when I was in college, I would say I was probably a lot more ambitious, like a lot more driven. I was like, I need to get the next job, I need to get the next co-op, like a lot more operating from kind of that masculine side. And when I got to banking, I was like, whoa, this is a lot. And, you know, having conversations with some of my guy friends that were in the bullpen with me, I would get really worked up over some email that a VP would send. And I'd be like, oh, like this just, and I would carry that weight with me through the day, right?
00:30:45
Speaker
I would feel like, oh, like I'm doing so bad or like they said XYZ to me. And he would feel the weight of that emotion through everything that you did. And when I would bring it up with guys, they're like, oh, like he says that to me all the time, like whatever, that's fine. And they're able to just kind of brush things off a lot easier where I think like, if you are a little more sensitive to that and you kind of pick and hold onto all those things, which also makes working in that environment a lot more difficult. And I kind of hit the point where I was like, I am so not
00:31:16
Speaker
From like driving from this place within myself and having to do this like sure can I do it? Yeah, but I'm like really, you know fighting tooth and nail to do so Whereas with some of the guys there they operate like that and like, you know, even just hormonally I'm like we go through a fluctuation of cycles through the month. So one week I might be like great girl boss like let's go we're about to crush you
00:31:40
Speaker
And then two weeks later, I'm like, I just want to crawl up into my bed. Exactly. So I think it's like understanding that within myself and really being like, okay, I do want to be able to be kind of more in that like receiving mode and being more in my feminine and understanding that side of me and not having to drive so much from that place of like masculine energy that I was tapping into.
Work-Life Balance and Generational Shifts
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like it's two things like men have
00:32:10
Speaker
so much more of their identity and validation tied into doing and like providing whether that be for like an actual family or like a hypothetical family like in their minds and to I really do think that if you were to ask like average 35 year old man about their internal emotions like they don't have a sort of vocabulary or awareness around that as if you were to ask like a 25 year old woman so it's like
00:32:39
Speaker
Greens are just more in tune with like what's working and what's not working. And so in a lot of ways, like they churn because they're enlightened and they know that something isn't working. And I, I feel like there's so many men in their 40s that have been at a company for like 10 years and you're like, why are you still at this thing? You're like, I don't know. Like my buddies are here. Like, yeah, the path, you know, versus actually figuring out what you want, getting aligned.
00:33:07
Speaker
and then figure it out. And I think Anna, you're in a job that is still very intellectually stimulating, you're good at, and doesn't require you to make all these sacrifices. And I'm sure a lot of people would love to be in that position, but it takes time to reflect and do all the work that you did.
00:33:26
Speaker
to actually be like, wait, it's not what's right for me right now. And now I'm going to recruit and find another great opportunity and change the path because I figured out that this is not it for me. And it's almost easier. Like I was also in banking to also just say, maybe I'll just say, you know, one week isn't as this one week. I didn't work 100 hours. Maybe it's not that bad. You have one good week and you kind of forget how bad it is until it gets bad again. I think.
00:33:54
Speaker
that's part of a larger trend i've been seeing on tiktok too where i think millennials had this girl boss where one of the boys energy and mantra to be one of the boys like push through push through and kind of the lean in culture denied a lot of the the inherent facts of like oh when these guys go home they don't have to like
00:34:21
Speaker
take care of their partner, their kids, all these other things. There's not all these expectations of them. It's just not realistic. And now I think there's been this pushback against it from Gen Z and younger women and saying, hey, we don't want to do this. I just seen a lot of it on my TikTok page these days. Yeah, Gen Z is weirdly like a lot more traditional. Like they lean into those values because
00:34:48
Speaker
I think they just saw their moms be like do it all women, like women that were like doing the mom parts and also doing like the, I don't want to call it like corporate man parts, but having it all doesn't exist. And I think they're seeing how important it is to like push back on that as not a realistic thing to push out to women. I also think it was really interesting when you were talking about
00:35:17
Speaker
like feeling like you're more masculine when you're in college because you're in like that doer mentality. I also think like our hormones haven't fully matured then and you are in this space where like girls and boys like girls being rated equally. Like there's no inherent like differences like everyone's being supported by their parents or lots of people are being supported by their parents. And then you get into the working world and all of a sudden you realize that like things are, you always knew that
00:35:46
Speaker
things weren't totally equal, but like with every year you're like, okay, so things are even less equal. Okay, it's actually this expensive for me to get a Dyson and my heels cost and why do I have to wear this to work? And they get to wear that to work. And why does it take me an hour to get ready in the morning? And they take 15 minutes to get ready in the morning. And now I'm dating guys and like,
00:36:09
Speaker
they're weird and flaky and they're happening in New York and this is taking so much time, time that I don't have and you're just realizing how shitty it is to be a woman. And I think that also is a part of like the traditional pushback at this point where it's like,
00:36:29
Speaker
Oh, okay. So I was 21 and I thought that everything was equal. And now I'm 22 and I have my own apartment and I'm realizing how expensive it is to be a girl from an emotional and economic perspective. And how the hell do I date now? Because I thought that I wanted to be a girl boss, but maybe I'm not more of like a 70, 30 life. And I never thought that that was me. Yeah. It really is like a shift. And I think I liked the point that you made that you're
00:36:59
Speaker
hormones are not fully formed until you're like 25 and you actually like develop your prefrontal cortex and you're like, hmm. Okay. I'm like, you feel it. I think after my 25th birthday, like that was like right during COVID. So, you know, I was kind of like, hmm.
00:37:17
Speaker
This is all clicking right now. And I don't want to be this girl boss. And for me, it was almost the opposite because I grew up in a much more traditional type of household where my dad was the only one really working. My mom would work here and there. But she went to school in India, studied electrical engineering because she could. And in the other way that it works is with some of the majors that you can pick. Not everybody can just go in and be like, I'm going to be an engineer.
00:37:47
Speaker
you have to be getting a certain level of grades in order to be even offered that major. And she was kind of coming in top of her class and my grandpa was like, well, duh, like you have to kind of go and like, why would you give up this opportunity? It's like things that a lot of people would kill to do. So she hated it from day one, but kind of just powered through it. Cause she's like, okay, I guess it's an opportunity. But then after she got it, she's like, I hated working. I don't want to do it. And then ended up getting married, had me,
00:38:15
Speaker
You know, and then wasn't really working when I was growing up, worked kind of on and off, but she was like, I don't want to work. Like, I don't like it. It doesn't bring me happiness. And me growing up, I kind of was like, what do you mean? Like, it almost felt that she was throwing away her talent because I'm like, you're so smart and like, you have this great degree and like, you could be doing something with your life. And she's like, I don't want to. And I'm like, that's so weird to me. Like, why would you not want to do that? So going into college and my career, I was very much like,
00:38:44
Speaker
I want to be a career person. Like I want to have something that I care about and like build it. And I think I still am like very happy and proud of the things that I have accomplished in my career. But I think you get to a point kind of after, you know, you hit that like 25 year old mark where you're like, wait,
00:39:00
Speaker
I am not primarily driving my fulfillment from work. And it goes back to what you were saying about guys tying a lot more of their identity into work. And for women, it's not as much the case. And I don't even think it's necessarily just like men versus women. There's a lot of women where like that's kind of their primary driver and like function and a lot of them are like, nope, I don't want to, I don't want to be driven like that. It's kind of what you find purpose it. And we would chat about this and thinking where, you know, you would have that good week and you're like, should I just stay like,
00:39:28
Speaker
The money's great. The vibes are great right now. Like, why don't we just stay? I don't want to recruit. And then you have a bad week and you're like, wait, nevermind. And we would kind of see like, hmm, why did XYZ person stay and like be associate and then BVP when they're like, I'm going to leave. But then they end up just staying. And it really came down to a lot of those people found value and meaning in what they were still doing through work. Because especially if you're doing a pretty, you know,
00:39:56
Speaker
tough job like banking, it never really gets a lot easier. Like sure, maybe once you make partner, you're working less, even then you're on client's time. You know, my parents would be missing kids soccer games to like be on the phone. So it's still very much like your work is your life, regardless of what level you are. And to be able to get to that point, you have to innately be prioritizing work as something that fulfills you. And for me, I was like, I am not deriving that much fulfillment from work at all.
00:40:25
Speaker
Like if I had to pick like the different pillars that light me up, work is probably less than 30% of where I would get fulfillment and joy and happiness. So even if I was the happiest I could be at my dream job, how fulfilled I would feel is still only 30%. And everything else is making up that rest 70%. So I'm like, I kind of don't necessarily need to make work my whole life.
Passions Beyond Work
00:40:49
Speaker
And I want to tap into more creative things. I'm like,
00:40:53
Speaker
Like, you know, just pick out a fashion project for fun. Like when I moved to Miami, I started getting really into Pilates and like working out in different ways. Because again, tying back into my masculine, I would go to a lot more like various bootcamps or like HIIT workouts. And it would just make me more anxious when I would leave class. And I got to Miami and all I started doing was like going on walks and doing Pilates. And I was like, I feel way better. And, you know, like love that kind of creative outlet.
00:41:22
Speaker
I ended up doing training for solid core and now I'm just teaching solid core for fun on the side. I'm like, this is just a random new passion project that I wanted to pick up. And that's giving me so much more fulfillment than if I were to get a deal done at work. So it's just about figuring out where you're being lit up from and investing more in that. And for a lot of people, that might not be your primary career. Is that something that we can promote your solid core? Yeah.
00:41:50
Speaker
are you in the brickel? brickel in midtown. Okay, so shout out, follow Anna as a great instructor and support her and say, can they say hi to you? Of course. Yeah. Okay. That also just going back to what you said that's so
00:42:09
Speaker
secure and mature of you to realize that about yourself. We all have different psychological makeups and things that motivate us. You can generalize men and women. Some people, maybe that's 100% they get from work. Some people, that's 5%. And they work to live versus live to work. And I think it's really mature that you're able to, again, be reflective and recognize that in yourself and say, hey, I'm going to change course because this is not what lights me up.
00:42:36
Speaker
And it goes back to what we always say about ikigai, which is write the intersection of what you're good at, what the world needs, and what was the other one? What gives you meaning? And I think you're figuring it out and saying, hmm, maybe this doesn't give me meaning, even though I'm really good at it.
00:42:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was because of that said, the meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose is to give it away. And I think we're all like figuring it out. Like, what are we super good at? And you know, part of it is, you know, one of your gifts is like being a really great solid core instructor. You don't just have one gift, maybe. But yeah, that's so awesome. Are you manifesting anything right now? Like, what are you kind of
00:43:21
Speaker
you know, dreaming about. So I would say there's anything like one thing in my life that I'm like manifesting right now. Like I love to have kind of like quotes for my years. And last year it was all about like, you know, more around figuring out for myself because I would say like 2022 is probably one of the most transformative years of my life, like moving to Miami, figuring out a lot of things just about myself, like getting clear about what types of relationships I wanted, kind of figuring out what I wanted to prioritize in my life.
00:43:51
Speaker
So that was great because that was really a year for me to kind of understand a little bit more about myself, feel more comfortable in myself. And this year is all about like almost like being able to enjoy the fruits of my labor and just kind of being happy with where I am and like finding different things that bring me that joy and happiness and kind of taking something. And if you feel that like yes in your body and your gut, like kind of running with it. So I don't know if there's any like one specific thing that
00:44:20
Speaker
manifesting right now because I think I am not trying to be in that like doer like this is my goal and going after it. Mentality it's more like even the solid core thing I was like hmm like this sounds fun like I feel like I would love like being able to instruct and like help people because I love taking class and obviously instructing is very different but just kind of running with it and learning that new skill it was like I it was kind of teaching your brain to work in a different way.
00:44:46
Speaker
and being able to go after that. So that was a lot of fun. And I think it's just for the rest of the year, it's like really just finding little almost side quests to your life on figuring out who you really are as a person and what you want to focus on. With your human design, are you a manifesting generator? Yes. Is your strategy to react? Mine is to respond. Yeah, react to respond. Is that the same thing? I think you're like
00:45:12
Speaker
the epitome of like what that means. I feel like life like gives you taste of things and you're like, I'm going to lean into that. And you just let things happen. Like when you were talking about how you came to be a solid core instructor, that's when I clicked for me. I was like, Oh my God, it's like a pattern throughout her entire life. Yeah. You're like, Oh, that's kind of interesting. And then you just like experience it and you're like, I'm just going to hang out here. And then the universe is like, teach, do. Yeah, that's like really, I mean, even career wise, that's like really how a lot of things ended up because through co-op, I like
00:45:42
Speaker
trying a lot of different things and like the accounting thing was like a no and that it was just like let me try out this thing in London like now like S&T and then I guess thinking and then you just kind of feel these different things and you're like okay great look and once you find something that you're like this makes sense then I just go for it. That's so interesting. Wait what's can you explain what human design is? Human design is I wouldn't call it
00:46:09
Speaker
anything astrologically related, but it's kind of a science that is tied to your date of birth and time of birth. And it basically says like, based off of when you were born, these are the guiding principles of your personality type, how you're meant to react to things, how you're meant to digest things, what your gifts are. And it basically gives you a guide on how to move through the world in a way to be more magnetic.
00:46:38
Speaker
and be more authentic to yourself. And it's a reaction to the current state of the world telling everyone that like they should succeed in the same way or they should all pursue their goals in the same way. And that will never work and it actually leads to a lot of people feeling drained and like they're not good enough when really you're supposed to pursue your goals in ways that are the most aligned to your unique gifts.
00:47:08
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting. What's your TLDR? Yeah. No, you talked to me about it. So I just wanted to like share with the audience. Like what's yours? I'm also a manifesting generator. I think most people of most people on earth today are manifesting generators. Oh, really? I didn't know that. I thought most people were generators. I could be getting that wrong, but I also lump them in the same category because they're both reacting responding types. Yeah. I'm a five two.
00:47:37
Speaker
I forget what that means exactly. I know that my strategy is to respond and I'm supposed to do a lot of different things in life, which I think has always made it really hard to be in like a super dogmatic role. And I've always liked my job's the best one. I've been doing a bunch of different things. Yeah. That's awesome. And yeah, something that I love about like your story, Anna, is
00:48:02
Speaker
You know, it's not the traditional narrative of like girl boss and like, this is all you have to be. And like you have to sacrifice so much in order to be someone who's successful, has their own coin, you know, has their finances in control. And then it's not just so one note, right? Like you have a very full life. You have like side quests that you're doing and hobbies and then also a great career. And I think,
00:48:30
Speaker
that's another story that we wanted to share with young women that it doesn't have to be this dreary, you have to do investment banking and work these 100 hour weeks and be one of the boys. You can be pretty invested and do all these other things. And so I think those are most of our questions. We have one final question that we like to ask all of our guests, but is there anything that you specifically wanted to touch on, Anna? Yeah, I think it's a lot of, especially for younger women listening to this,
00:49:00
Speaker
I think a lot of it is just going back to understanding yourself because everyone's story is going to look so different and, you know, call that intuition, call that human design, but we're all wired differently. So it's really kind of stepping back and being like, does what I'm doing actually serve me? Like, am I doing it for me or for like the validation of others and whatnot? Cause I mean, especially in college, I'm like, I'm the first to admit I was the biggest like clout chaser with logos. I was like, great, I want to be at the best thing possible I want to be
00:49:29
Speaker
at like this part of my career and I was like, why? Like that's for, you know, the validation of being like, I work at XYZ firm and like, am I really happy here? Am I having a good time? Do I like these people? And if it's not a yes, then it's like not worth it to me. So really kind of understanding like in this moment, is this serving you? And if it's not like, that's okay. Like you can go do something else.
Advice for Young Women
00:49:51
Speaker
So also being like, you know, being able to kind of tap into that, I think from a young age is really important. So then, you know, one day,
00:49:59
Speaker
10 years down the line, you don't wake up and you're like, wait, what? Why am I here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really involved to not be logo chasing and shows a sense of security. Like I don't need to prove to you that I'm smart or successful. We can get into to pay. That's another fact that people consider, but a lot of people I hear forego pay to be at like a bigger name brand. And then that's other flexibility that you don't have because you have less disposable income to invest or having a work life balance.
00:50:28
Speaker
But yeah, the last question that we ask all of our guests is, you know, what's your favorite investment or purchase? Al knows the story because we were talking about Nvidia, but it would have been, yeah, that I invested at the right time. I remember being in my investments class like junior year of college when I think the stock price was literally like 60, 70 bucks maybe. And we were on a team and one of the guys was a CS major and finance major.
00:50:58
Speaker
I was like, guys, we should pitch a video. And all of us were like, what is this? And on video, they make GPU components. It's really on a tier right now because of AI and the applications that processing these chips would make for the rest of the next 10 years. So had I invested, it was an insane investment to have done. And kudos to my friends that knew about this. Guess how much the video is right now. Is it like a 10x?
00:51:26
Speaker
Like, so you said it was like around like 60 share price, right? Yeah, something around that. Now it's 425. Geez. I think since I last looked like a few weeks ago, it's gone up a bunch. Yeah. It went up like a percent today. But who knows when we publish where it's going to be, but just us today. Yeah, it's going up for us. Really? I mean, this was in 2021. I did that with a lot of stocks in 2021.
00:51:58
Speaker
You can never predict these macro trends. I actually bought Nvidia, but my underlying thesis was because of the conflicts between China and Taiwan and microchips.
00:52:13
Speaker
It was a good thesis, but actually what's really, you know, catapulted the stock price was this boom in AI and the underlying infrastructure that would power it. So it's a good, it's still good fundamental reasoning, but, and I benefited off of it, but you never know. And that's what we say, you know, it's fun to do individual stock picking, but sometimes the investments maybe just do like an index fund, unless you like have a thesis or, you know, are able to read financial statements.
00:52:40
Speaker
This may be unique to me, but I think this is the first time in my life on a Friday night where I've been in a group of like three girls and we're talking about like fundamental investment theses. For fun. Yeah. Well, to be fair, I wasn't talking about the video when I was down a bunch of money. But now that it's soaring, I'm like, Oh, yeah, this was my thesis. And like, even though it didn't work out, here's how it played out for now.
00:53:08
Speaker
Congratulate people on when they sell a stock, not when they buy it because you had it locked in. By the way, not financial advice at all. Do your own research. We have no proprietary information on your video. But yeah, I guess I actually have one more question for you. What characters would you attribute to your success? I think that's a question that Warren Buffett and I think, who was it?
00:53:36
Speaker
Bill Gates answered and they had very interesting responses. I think a lot of it is having kind of the right balance between ambition and grit because I think you can have a lot of ambition, but unless it's backed by grit, you're not going to see like the actual results materialized. It kind of goes back to creating your luck. Right. And I think you are really able to create your luck if you're internally
00:54:05
Speaker
very, very driven. Me and my friend were just chatting about this. And you know, it was the question of like, do you actually want to challenge yourself? And how much of a challenge do you want? So it's having that internal drive. And that's where like, my ambition comes in is if somebody's like, you have to do XYZ and kind of like, oh, I like don't want to do it because it's not an internal drive. But for something that I'm like, I just want to randomly do this. And I have that internal motivation. It doesn't matter like how hard or challenging it is, but I'm like, I'm going to do it.
00:54:35
Speaker
But then also having like the grit to kind of persevere and being able to do the hard things is when they feel hard and really kind of, you know, in some core, I always say embrace the pain through it, but it's really applying that to life as well, you know, and being able to be like, I see what me doing this now and the dividends that it's going to reap in the future. And really just being able to kind of strike that balance in between. I would definitely go to your class.
00:55:04
Speaker
come. I think like what I want the audience to take away from this conversation is I mean for 22 year old me I think seeing someone like you who's like so well-rounded and in tune with themselves and hasn't like abandoned like core qualities of yourself to be successful and you're still aligned with like your career ambitions and you can you're capable of saying things like it takes grit to get places but you're still like
00:55:33
Speaker
really pretty and you care about things beyond work. I think for me, I always really value people that were well-rounded. And I think I want the audience to take away the fact that people like you exist, and it's not all, I don't know, scary people out there in finance. And you can be happy and whole and have a fulfilling career that's hard sometimes. Yeah.
00:56:02
Speaker
I think a lot of this really resonated with me. Well, it was amazing chatting with you guys. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming. Of course. Thanks for helping me. Yeah. So guys, if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to give us a rating wherever you're listening on Spotify and Apple podcasts. We're pretty invested media everywhere. Give us a follow. Thanks guys. We always say stay pretty invested. Stay pretty invested.