Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Confessions of a Finance girly - Hedge Funds, IB, VC, Investor Relations - what’s the difference?
174 Plays1 year ago
On this episode, Eleanor interviews Pritika Tiwari, a finance queen, who has first-hand experience in multiple finance roles (former Investment Banker, data researcher at a Hedge Fund, Venture Capital Investor) and now Investor Relations for an Opportunistic Credit Fund.
They speak honestly about choosing what even within Finance is the right opportunity for you. Buy-side vs. sell-side? And Pritika shares how to keep calm even in high pressure environments - hint: meditation.
You can find us on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram at:
https://www.youtube.com/@PrettyInvestedMedia
https://www.tiktok.com/@prettyinvestedmedia
https://www.instagram.com/prettyinvestedmedia
Pretty Invested Media and this related information does not constitute professional or financial advice of any kind (including business, employment, investment advisory, accounting, tax, and/or legal advice). Advice from a suitably qualified professional should always be sought in relation to any particular matter or circumstance.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Pratika Tiwari
00:00:11
Speaker
Hi everyone! We have a super special episode. I'm so excited to welcome my friend Pratika Tiwari to this week's episode. She started off her career in investment banking and has worked in various finance roles, including as
00:00:27
Speaker
a data researcher at a long short hedge fund and also a venture capital investor. She now works in investor relations at a opportunistic credit fund. So Prachika has held various seats across financial services. And despite being known for the intensity of the industries she's been in, Prachika has one of the most enlightened and thoughtful energies of anyone I know.
Networking and Career Beginnings
00:00:51
Speaker
So welcome, Prachika.
00:00:53
Speaker
Thanks, Al. That was a really sweet introduction. I'm so excited to be here and have this conversation with you. And thank you for having me on this podcast. Yeah, I'm so excited. You were
00:01:06
Speaker
We met through the New York venture networking industry and at an event and just really connected as former investment bankers, but then also have just energies that I think align. I just talked to you that entire evening and was like zeroed in. I was like, this girl is for real. I want to be her friend.
00:01:30
Speaker
I felt the exact same way. I didn't think I connected with someone that fast that quickly in that sort of environment.
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's so great how we got a really nice friendship out of that one event. I know. You're literally the reason why sometimes I'm like, should I go to this happy hour, this networking event? And I think I almost didn't go to that one where I met for Tikka. And so maybe I should because I might meet my future bestie. And then most of the times it's just another happy hour.
00:02:02
Speaker
With that being said, I gave a brief introduction on you, but I want to hand you over the mic and just tell everyone a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thank you. I am originally from the DC area. I'm the oldest of Indian immigrant parents.
Family Influence and Finance Career
00:02:25
Speaker
I moved to New York in 2017 and have been in finance like since then. And, you know, it's, I think it was always a childhood dream of mine to come to the city. Even when I was in like high school, I'd come to New York and be like, this is where I want to end up. And really just like, that's what sparked a lot of my interest in, you know, my career today. And.
00:02:53
Speaker
Yeah, that's sort of how this whole path formed. That's so interesting. So I feel like you have to be a specific type to be in finance. Did your family push you to do that? How much exposure did you have to it growing up? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's funny you asked that. So my dad actually has spent decades in the financial services industry. He's worked in various banks, worked in finance my whole life.
00:03:20
Speaker
I literally, when I was younger, used to look at what he did and just think, oh, I would never do that. That's not going to be me, but I am his daughter, so this is where I ended up. But I did have exposure to that from an early time. And I think initially, the career paths that we chose are very intense.
00:03:44
Speaker
I had very frank conversations with my dad, just he's like, are you sure you want to do this? You know, like this is the life that you want to live, but no, this is, this is where we are. Yeah. What was his sentiment? Yeah. So, well, my mom is a teacher, so she doesn't know a lot about the nuances of different kinds of careers within finance. My dad, his reaction was like, you're picking a very.
00:04:11
Speaker
intense lifestyle. And I just want to make sure you're prepared for that because, you know, it's one thing when you're interviewing and you're talking to people who are in those shoes and you're like, yeah, like I can work those hundred plus hour work weeks, like I could do it forever, but actually doing it as a whole different ballgame. And so when you actually do it,
00:04:30
Speaker
your whole perspective changes. That's when I think you truly, you know, decide if this is something you want to do, if this is right for you, and those things, right? So my dad was just trying to very much just like, I guess just like, you know, caution me. But at the same time, like, just coming from an immigrant background, this is, you know, something that you and I have also talked about, like, separately, numerous times, like,
00:04:57
Speaker
the grind mentality is very much in our DNA. Like it's a lot of like, you know, what my parents did when we first came to the country. And so I've never shied away from that in any sense, right? Like just putting yourself in your work, throwing yourself into what you're doing, trying to build yourself a better life.
Finance Roles: Sell Side vs Buy Side
00:05:15
Speaker
Like that
00:05:15
Speaker
have been very common themes in my life. And so while my dad obviously knows that and would push me to work hard, he also wanted to make sure I wasn't losing my sanity. So it was a very level-headed discussion with him.
00:05:34
Speaker
And so you started off in investment banking, then worked in a hedge fund and venture and, you know, now the credit fund. Can you kind of break down for the women who maybe aren't as familiar with how those are differently structured? What's the buy side versus sell side? Just structurally. And then we'll go into, you know, what it's actually like to work in those industries, those spaces. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So.
00:06:00
Speaker
I think you kind of framed it very nicely. Like before we dive into the specifics, I think a good way to just think about it is like you said the buy side versus the sell side, right? So investment banking and anytime usually when you're more like at the bank, any sort of bulge bracket or middle market bank or what have you, you are an advisor. You're like a financial advisor helping a lot of clients.
00:06:28
Speaker
make financial decisions, whether you're talking to a company who is wanting to acquire another company, or whether you're wanting to do a sponsor sale, various sort of financial ways to grow the business. The buy side, on the other hand, is you're no longer in that client advisory role. You are the client. And there's various ways to think about it. It was how things work on the buy side.
00:06:56
Speaker
I think it was best explained to me by a very good mentor of mine back when I was in college, but you want to think about roles in the buy side with the lens of a company's life cycle. So with the earlier days, you know, you have a lot of like what you do in venture. So like the seed stage and the growth stage, that's really when a company is early days in its life.
00:07:18
Speaker
when it hits the mature stage, that's really where the late stage and the growth stage investors come in. That's probably where a lot of the public investors come in, right? So you think about it from that lens, company goes public, that's where you have those. And then maybe towards the end of a company's life cycle, which might not necessarily mean death, right? But towards the end, or if things start to go downhill and the company is, quote unquote, running out of its lifeline,
00:07:44
Speaker
that's when some of the distressed folks come in. So that's kind of how I think about it in terms of the different roles of the different players on the buy side. It's all relative to how a company is growing and where it's at in its life cycle. Yeah. So another way that I think about it is if, let's say, a private equity firm wants to
00:08:09
Speaker
acquire a company, investment banks are their advisors and their structures, they take a fee.
Investment Strategies and Compensation
00:08:16
Speaker
And then for the private equity firm, their returns are their returns. So it's both very lucrative. And they're both working on the same
00:08:26
Speaker
deal, but there's different roles that each person plays. And a lot of people go into investment banking like you and I did. They recruit from these top universities, these bright young minds, ambitious kids who want to work 100 hour weeks. And then some people say, and then some people leave. We both left. And then you actually worked and moved towards doing research at a hedge fund.
00:08:53
Speaker
What is a hedge fund like? Because that's not really the same as just private equity. I was a data researcher at a hedge fund right after my time in banking, and I think hedge funds are structured very differently. The one at that time that I was at was a very standard long-short fund.
00:09:16
Speaker
They were basically investing in public equities and so these investments tend to be like names that you see in the stock market, right? So you have like the Netflix of the world or like the Facebooks and everything that's I think a little bit more tangible. And these trades I think are a lot more liquid compared to private equity firms. Your investment horizon is much shorter depending on like the strategy of the fund.
00:09:41
Speaker
But I think the biggest difference in my view in like hedge funds versus PE firms is how you think about a company generating value in the long term, right? Are you seeking that value in shorter, like event driven catalyst type investments, right? Or are you really having longer term views, like around an entire company and then transacting? Right. There's like private equity, you acquire a company, it's
00:10:11
Speaker
really long multi-year time horizons at a hedge fund. Some of them don't hold up positions for very long or they're not buying, they're actually shorting the company and that's their strategy. So it's very different.
00:10:26
Speaker
And it's all about how you learn, right? Because some people I think are very good about you're at a hedge fund, you're a research analyst, like you're covering like 50, 60, 70, 80, like companies over your lifetime, like over your career there, right? And some people enjoy that because you know a little bit about everything, but you're not like a massive master in this like one company versus I think
00:10:49
Speaker
like PE analysts will really, really dive very deeply into a company and hold much longer term views. And so I think it all depends on how you think, like how your brain works, like where you find interest and fulfillment. Yeah. Yeah. And that's
00:11:03
Speaker
Also a whole new ballpark with venture capital, where like you said, very early days, any of you guys, have you seen like the social network when Mark Zuckerberg was first starting out, there was like venture capitalists who helped them out. And not until Facebook, now a meta goes public, would hedge fund really get involved for, you know, long, short equity type of position. So people operate within different parts of the life cycle.
00:11:33
Speaker
I think what's helpful is the way that all of these funds and firms get paid also influences and trickles down to what's more relevant for us, how their employees get paid, right? So venture capital, you get paid a salary, all these places pay a base salary, but where it gets interesting is the bonus and the potential upside.
00:11:57
Speaker
So venture capital, you get carry. So the investment, let's say you buy it for a $10 million valuation and then it becomes 10 billion, you get a certain percentage of that upside. But that doesn't happen too, too often. And it takes a very long time for a company to get to that level. And then for you guys, or you guys were at a hedge fund,
00:12:23
Speaker
you guys have certain asset management, you hold them, and then maybe you sell it at however times multiple or you short it and get some revenue.
Hedge Fund Culture and Stress Management
00:12:31
Speaker
And the way that your bonuses are structured are a little bit different. Can you elaborate on how that works? Yeah, so I think for a lot of the funds,
00:12:42
Speaker
It does vary by the structure of the fund itself. But I think generally speaking, it's a lot more volatile in terms of your comp than it is in VC or traditional PE. And I'll tell you, I think there's similarities in the sense that, of course, you have the base and then a lot of your
00:13:07
Speaker
But the thing is, I think VC and PE have a much more stable stream of investing. It's really built in into how their structure gets a much longer time horizon.
00:13:23
Speaker
hedge funds just have a lot of volatility. So at any given year, your base won't be, that's not the majority of your comp, but the upside can be incredibly large, or if it's a bad year and the markets aren't doing too well, maybe you're not paid much at all. And so that's the volatility factor that
00:13:44
Speaker
sometimes attracts people to these jobs or just like, you know, makes them a little bit hesitant to go towards them. Like, you know, we all have those friends that like worked at funds and their first year there were like millionaires, right? And so you're at a junior level, like that's incredible. But that's rare. And that doesn't always happen. But that's like the risk you're willing to take. So when I think of comp, like for a lot of like long short funds specifically, like it is very
00:14:14
Speaker
It's volatile, but the upside can be incredible when the markets are right. Yeah. Yeah. And you make good bets and the ones that you're doing perform well. Yeah, exactly. Exactly right. VC, I make an investment at year one. It'll take 10 years. And even there's some really senior companies, for example, FTX. Someone could have made an investment in FTX.
00:14:39
Speaker
Great, worth billions and billions of dollars. And then it goes to zero. So you don't really get to see how you perform until years down the line. And even still, it's like when you exit, that makes the most difference. Same with private equity. It takes at least a couple of years for the business to transform. But you could buy a stock that you do all this research. That's what you would focus on. You have conviction. We think that this is an opportunity.
00:15:09
Speaker
within a day, some news could come out, something could happen and then you lose maybe half your position and then your boss is probably not too happy that you just lost them, you know, so much money. And so, so you said like at a junior level, like a few years out of college, you could be making millions in bonuses. What's like the biggest range that you've heard? Maybe not even that you're fun, but like that someone was able to make.
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah. So, so this is all speaking like with, you know, my prior. I would, you know, that's probably like the highest range I heard, you know, where this person was a first year analyst and a lot of the times these multi strategy hedge funds will have like a pod structure. So you sit on a team. So if you're like a tech team, like you cover a bunch of tech names and then there's.
00:16:02
Speaker
a bunch of other teams that are also covering tech and you're essentially competing with them, but also all the other ones out there. So it's a, you know, it's a very, like, it's not even firm dependent. Sometimes your comp is very team dependent. That's kind of competitive. Yeah, it's very competitive and externally, right? Yeah. So this, this person that I had heard of you, you know, his, his pod did extremely well that year. Like there were a lot of people that did
00:16:27
Speaker
very well during like the COVID months if you had the right sort of
00:16:32
Speaker
outlook on it. And yeah, he was like a first year, you know, analyst, he I think he came out of like a traditional banking program. And by that he basically quit his job in about a year because he had made like a million or so in his bonus. And so that's great, you know, good for him. Like I said, like, that's more like, I don't hear those cases as often, right? But I think it's that sort of like,
00:17:01
Speaker
a rarity, but it's just a lot dependent.
Career Decisions and Personal Growth
00:17:04
Speaker
And I think that's why so many people want to go work for a hedge fund. They're like, oh, I can become a millionaire. First, maybe you do banking. Not too many people go directly into hedge funds right out of college. It's a pretty rare opportunity. But they're like, oh, I could be a millionaire. And everyone thinks that they play around with their Robinhood. They're like, I can 5x, 10x. But I'm sure it's really hard. And it's
00:17:30
Speaker
Because if you're on the right side of the trade, someone's not on the right side of the trade. That's just how markets work. Right. It's a zero-sum game. Yeah, for sure. It is. And so it's about, you know, candidly making money for your LPs, the people who gave you the money to invest in. Right. Yeah. And so I think without a lot of people go into it, but it's really hard to be really good at it because it's stressful, it's competitive.
00:18:00
Speaker
What did you think about how, at least that's what I perceive it. I've never worked at a hedge fund. That reputation. How do people deal with the volatility of the markets? Or how did you deal with the volatility of markets and the culture? Yeah. Yeah. So I guess like.
00:18:20
Speaker
I think it, you know, we talked about this a little bit, but it takes a certain kind of person to do this job, right? And I think it's the type of buy side role you pick for yourself is very dependent on your personality type too, because depending on your risk appetite, depending on where you choose to spend your career, like a lot of people are just more okay with taking on a lot of risk, right? And I think a lot of people in our industry just tend to be a little bit risk averse.
00:18:49
Speaker
So in terms of how people felt about the volatility, some people were great. They dealt with it just fine, even if they knew that this year they'd be here, next year they might get axed. Because quite frankly, that was just how the roles are structured.
00:19:07
Speaker
you're dealing with the markets, you're usually right 50% of the time, right? You're not, it's a very like, you would think like, you know, like it seems low, but like it's so hard to predict the markets. And so many times what happens is like these research analysts will be, they'll spend a couple years at a fund, then you know, they'll get fired, they get hired at like a competitor fund. And that's very much ingrained in their culture. So
00:19:32
Speaker
Do you think that's kind of across the industry or is there differences between different funds? There's definitely differences between different funds. I think the big long short funds that are I think more widely known, those have a much higher turnover rate and this is much more normal in their culture. But then you have certain funds like certain long only funds where you're just like value investors and
00:19:57
Speaker
the job is a little bit more stable, you end up saying you have a much longer investment horizon period. And so for those funds, it's very, very different. But for these long short funds specifically, I think when it comes to intensity, to be honest, a lot of people are used to that sort of culture because they signed themselves up for it. You don't entirely walk into this knowing that this is not how it's going to be. Yeah.
00:20:28
Speaker
Investment banking was long hours. Hedge funds are very markets related. I guess you could work as much. You could spend all your time doing research, but it's not the same. You know, you have to be there until 1 AM every night or whatever, but it's a lot more volatile and you're not just waiting around for comments. You're also.
00:20:52
Speaker
and having to make temperament. Even me, when my stocks go up, I'm like, oh, I'm in a good mood right now. And then when they're negative, I'm like, I can't look at this. My mood is so impacted because that's your actual net worth. If that was your job and how people value you as an employee, how did you try and manage that?
00:21:17
Speaker
For sure. So it, you know, it's interesting as part of the data research team, like I wasn't sitting, I was not one of those analysts that was directly making a lot of the trades. The group that I was in did a lot of.
00:21:33
Speaker
research support for those analysts. But the way that the role was structured is your research is very tied to how whatever analyst you're supporting is performing. So you don't feel it as much, right? But you feel it a lot nonetheless. Because you're saying, oh, you should buy this. It's a great opportunity. And it does terribly well.
00:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think a lot of the times this isn't just the case in like long short, right? I think this is a case in any kind of investing role. Like hindsight is always 2020. Yeah. And it is when you have a shorter time horizon, you just have a much faster feedback loop. So you just end up seeing the results of your investment much sooner.
00:22:15
Speaker
versus like the inventor PE you just have more time to like evaluate whether or not you did a good job it takes a lot to climb up to a place where you're even the one that's calling the shots right so you don't really know how you are as an investor and so I think like
00:22:30
Speaker
It's tough, but I think the right person, and this is so hard to do. I was just talking to my boyfriend about this last night. You think that a lot of people in finance are stable in terms of emotionally regulating themselves, right?
00:22:47
Speaker
Yeah, maybe compared to the average person where you're not so regulatory with your emotions, maybe you are right. Maybe it's just like how you've been trained. But it's just so not the case. Like people get so emotional and you can't help it, right? Like, it goes right. Like all you want to do is celebrate like a trade goes wrong. Like, you know, there's screaming and there's like, you know, slamming off the phones and stuff like that. And
00:23:12
Speaker
When you have millions of dollars at stake and you're handling your LPs as money, it's a very high-stakes environment. The non-finance professional, I think investors generally tend to be folks who are more regulated with their emotions and can be more rational.
00:23:33
Speaker
But I think when you look at the microcosm of investors, like that's just not the case. People are so emotional about these things, right? Yeah. I mean, this is a whole other thing, but I was always saying, men say women are so emotional. I'm like, men are pretty emotional too, but you just let it, you let it out in anger. Anger is also an emotion and it's very, it's very funny. And something I really wanted to ask you about is like, you meditate. Did you start meditating when you were, when did you start doing that? Was it when you were at hedge funds or?
00:24:04
Speaker
Or how did you get into that since you were young? Honestly, that's a great question. So I have actually been into meditation since literally college. There have been periods of time in my life, I think, when I become more interested in it. And there are times when things got busy and you don't do it for some time. But I think in the last year or so, I've meditated almost every day for about 15, 20 minutes.
00:24:30
Speaker
wow yeah it's honestly it's just a great way to start the day like i think i got into it you know for the reasons that we were just talking about like emotional regulation right like yes when you're working in careers that are demanding things that are stressful and not even you know even when you're studying for your finals right like there's a lot of pressure sometimes to perform well to do a good job and i'm naturally someone who worries a lot you know i tend to think
00:25:00
Speaker
Like, oh, like you think about all the results, all the things that could go wrong, you know? And so I really needed a way to like ground myself, just like be in the moment a little bit more. And I used to read so many books, like written by monks. There's this one called The Joy of Living. The Joy of Living.
Importance of Culture and Authenticity
00:25:18
Speaker
It was like written by this like Buddhist monk who like has this really great perspective on like, like,
00:25:25
Speaker
mindset and like mindfulness and meditation. So I think that helps, right? I think like when you do that a little bit and you build up the mental stamina to be able to like absorb certain emotions, but not react to that. Like I think it's, it's a tool like any other thing, like exercising, right? But I'm not working out, but I don't think like, I think it's impossible to not react, right? Like,
00:25:51
Speaker
Did you have like breathing exercises in the workplace to help you? Yeah, well, so not so much in the workplace, because I think those moments just fly by. Like when you're under pressure, you're under stress, you probably feel this too. Like on days when you're really stressed, like you don't even think about like meditation. But I think like starting off your day, spending 1015 minutes and just sort of like having the right mindset when you go into work, I think that
00:26:21
Speaker
sets the tone for the rest of the day. Because you kind of walk into your day being like, I'm going to feel this way, like no matter what comes my way. So take me and get through this most stressful thing and I'll be okay. Like give me like the greatest like victory is and I'll be okay, right? Like that level headed like, don't celebrate your wins too much. Don't cry over your losses too much. Kind of an attitude. Yeah. What meditation do you do?
00:26:50
Speaker
So I do a little bit of two different kinds. There are a bunch of like traditional breathing exercises that
00:26:58
Speaker
you learn about if you dive into the very basics of yoga. And so there's a few that I'll start my day off with. It's usually just deep breathing, alternate nostril breathing. I don't know if you've heard of any of that, but it's very, very calming. And so I do that for maybe five minutes a day. And that's all you need, really, is just five minutes a day. And then I'll switch over to my headspace app and do a guided meditation for maybe
00:27:27
Speaker
they have like this like daily like you know meditation of the day so i'll do that typically oh really interesting yeah i love a guided meditation we're actually going to post a guided meditation that i'm leading on our podcast i love that yeah so i'll be sure to send it to you when it's live absolutely yeah meditation i feel like i don't do it as
00:27:55
Speaker
you know religiously or ritually as you do I wish I should but yeah I think that it's like you said it's not just let me just use this little tactic on breathing to calm myself down those are great taking deep breaths when you're you know stressed but just becoming this you know more relaxed like I don't even enlighten person that's why I say your energy is so calming and
00:28:24
Speaker
I wouldn't have thought that you were, you know, someone who worked in finance and these really intense work environments because you're so calm and even your energy is so zen and like healing. And I think it's because you start off your day, you know, just who you are as a person, like you're able to get into that head space. I'm not so shaken by the things and like, it's a really admirable trait. Thanks Elle. That's so sweet. Yeah.
00:28:56
Speaker
But hopping back into the discussion about career, you did leave at different points. We had a guest on Anna who talked about why she left investment banking.
00:29:12
Speaker
You could maybe go into a little bit why you left banking and a little bit why you left the long short equity fund and why you left Spencer and kind of the different reasons for why you are where you are today. Yeah. Yeah. Great question.
00:29:29
Speaker
And I think it's one that is, I think a lot of people will like make these decisions in their life and it's a never ending process, right? Like careers you think is something that you have it all figured out like when you graduate, right? But it's such a process. Going back to banking, I honestly like, I think the norm is like a lot of people see this as like a training ground, right? Like a two year intense program.
00:29:59
Speaker
You learn a lot of the skills that set you up for success culturally and technically that help you in various industries, whether it's financial services, like working for like a fortune 500 company, even working at a startup, right? It just makes you a very, very efficient worker. I think at the end of the day, in any banking program that you go to.
00:30:19
Speaker
I ultimately, you know, I was not dissimilar in that sense compared to a lot of people where I always saw it as a stepping stone, saw that that was a great training ground. And, and that's sort of the lens I took it as and so when I like near, you know, my time at the end of my time in banking, it was
00:30:39
Speaker
It was exhausting, right? You worked so much. It's such a high pressure environment. You kind of knew you wanted to leave. Yeah. We walked into it like a lot of people do, right? Knowing that it was a stepping stone. So that wasn't out of the ordinary. I do think that, you know, looking back, like I would do it all over again.
00:30:58
Speaker
despite it's such a challenging environment to be in, but it really, really puts you at a great place to succeed, I think, if you want to do anything in
Understanding Investor Relations (Q&A)
00:31:09
Speaker
corporate America. That's just my opinion. It's like medicine, right? You kind of just take it. You don't really think about it. You just do it. So that was like my banking path. I think when I went to the Long Short Fund,
00:31:23
Speaker
I mean, I was incredibly excited. And the group that I joined, you mentioned hedge funds are so known for their intensity. I think a lot of buy side firms are very, very known for their intensity. But I lucked out where I was just in a group that
00:31:40
Speaker
I just loved the people I worked with. And honestly, it's like people that I still talk to today, people I just don't even hesitate. I don't think twice before I reach out to them. I literally ran into one of them on the streets the other day and then I went to trivia night with him and his wife. I get invited to one of their baby showers.
00:31:58
Speaker
you know these are just like a lot of folks I think the misconception about financial industries is like you know these are some like crazy psychopaths like you know whatever but these are just like honestly like nerds and people who just you know really great job it's like school and like and these firms right and and so that I mean I loved my time there it was just it was great but I think what ultimately made me want to leave is
00:32:27
Speaker
I feel like, as I was in the data research group, we talked about, I hit that learning curve after I was there for about three years, and I was ready for something new. I'd never tried my hand at investing, and a lot of people do investing out of banking.
00:32:43
Speaker
Before that door sort of closed, I wanted to say, let me explore this.
Gender Disparity in Finance
00:32:49
Speaker
And venture was a very attractive industry, especially the seed stage, because it all comes down to her skill set. I think I'm a people person. I love talking to people, interacting with people. And seed, I mean, you know, more than anyone, that's how we met. It's so people-focused, right? It's all about-
00:33:11
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. And I just feed off of that energy. So combine that with investing. And I was like, oh, this is going to be great. This is what I want to do. So did that for a little bit. That's where I met you. And I think it was a fantastic experience. And once again, got very lucky with the people that I was with. And we should talk about this later here or separately. But I think people, that is such an important part of this world.
00:33:39
Speaker
I've been so lucky that I haven't left any job except maybe banking where I just didn't like the people.
00:33:47
Speaker
I'm a big believer of like you leave jobs, not because you want to do something else. You leave because you're really just like changing the kind of people you want to work with, right? That's, that's true in some cases, not all. But anyway, so when I did venture for a bit, I thought, you know, this is great, but I just couldn't see myself becoming a long-term investor. Like I, you're so passionate about VC8. I think it's such an interesting field, but I just like not where I saw my future. I felt like a lot of my other skills were being underutilized.
00:34:16
Speaker
And I kind of had this watershed moment where I was like, you know, I've done the things I'm supposed to do. Like, I tried my hand at all the things that I thought are the things that you should be doing. But it comes a time when you just want to be authentic to yourself. And that is an incredibly hard thing to do. Because I think like we in our culture in, you know,
00:34:40
Speaker
the industry that we're in, we're so groomed to chase the best thing, the most prestigious thing, the one that's like, you're working a ton, but look at where you are. It took a lot of rewiring for me to be like, I'm just going to do the things that I authentically feel are the ones that are right for me.
00:35:01
Speaker
With all that in mind, I actually met that friend that I told you about that I ran into the streets. I actually told him that I was considering leaving venture. This was one of my friends from my long, short days.
Conclusion and Key Insights
00:35:15
Speaker
And he was like, you know what? Here, talk to this other friend that works at this opportunistic credit hedge fund. And it's an investor relations, this staff kind of role.
00:35:27
Speaker
of a very similar background. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, I was going to ask, explain maybe a little bit to the audience, what is investor relations? How is that different than investing? Yeah, so investor relations can be a lot of different things at a lot of different firms. I can really speak to my experience, which I am probably biased, but I think it's the best way to have this job structured.
00:35:50
Speaker
It's a lot of, like, so the way any fund is structured, right? You're essentially taking money from limited partners that tend to be like pension funds, family offices, endowment funds, you know, what have you, and you take their money and that is what you're investing. So investor relations is, you know, part management of those relationships, part marketing your fund strategy, and then part raising money for a new fund as your fund starts to grow over its life cycle.
00:36:20
Speaker
It depends on the fund you're at. It's structured in so many different ways. But at my particular fund, you do a little bit of everything, which is kind of why I really, really like this job.
00:36:33
Speaker
It's if you're very passionate about finance and you want to be surrounded by those sort of people, but your strength is not necessarily like you don't want to be the one that's like crunching the numbers all the time. I think that's when this job is a great fit for you because you're learning so much about the strategy. You're figuring out how to connect with LPs and
00:36:57
Speaker
marketing it and forming a brand and image. There's a lot of data analysis too. It's just a very different kind of data analysis. You're not necessarily looking at a balance sheet. You're looking at, well, what are my funds returns? What are the different levers that are driving those returns? Having a strong technical background helps a ton.
00:37:17
Speaker
it's a very different skill set. But it all comes down to authenticity, right? And so if that's where your strength is, like, if there are folks listening to this, and you know, you feel like you've been doing things that you don't really want to do, like, it's never too late to be authentic and like pick the right crew path. Yeah. Oh, what a beautiful note to end on.
00:37:39
Speaker
This is not the end of the podcast, but I think just to build on what you were saying, investors have investors, which you don't realize. If you are offering a $2 billion fund, who gave that fund $2 billion? It's not usually just the partners themselves putting in their capital.
00:37:57
Speaker
As you mentioned, endowments, pensions, family offices, they gave that fund, they raised that fund, and then now those investors are deploying that capital. And a lot of times, mostly, hopefully they can, they raise additional funds. And so, Pritika is the one who manages all those relationships.
00:38:18
Speaker
for the investors and then helps with the reporting, helps with the future of fund raises. And so you know the business very well, like the fund and how the portfolio is doing, how the fund is performing. So it's still very technical in nature and you're still very
00:38:36
Speaker
tied in with where the investments are happening. You're just not the one necessarily making those investments, but you're a big part of the team. And the reason why that those investors are able to have money to invest. Exactly. Because I didn't fully even know what investor relations really was until I, even in banking, I was like, I don't really know what this fully is. Totally. I mean, I think it's interesting. In venture firms, my understanding was like they're
00:39:04
Speaker
Even more so than some of the other PE firms like roles are entirely dedicated to fundraising, right? Like you're known as like, oh, well, you're the VC investor or like, oh, well, you're the VC fundraiser, right? And oftentimes like the partners will be the ones that raise the funds. There's so many roles that support those things that are also
00:39:22
Speaker
up there and like very viable career option. Sometimes pay is not that different especially at certain levels and it's really just like the the procedure like you know what you hear about and oftentimes lifestyle is way better on that side and that is something that I think is okay to want. You don't want to always be grinding forever and I don't know it just it reminds me of this thing where
00:39:52
Speaker
I don't know what it was. Especially in immigrant communities, you put on a pedestal being a STEM major, or certain things you just think are incredible. And it's totally arbitrary. Totally. It's like, oh, you had a Bachelor of Science versus a Bachelor of Arts.
00:40:16
Speaker
economics majors were bachelors of sciences. And for some reason that mattered to the parents. But it's still not true. Like, oh, you're like, you're not good at math? Like, what's wrong with you? I felt a little bit some type of way of like, well, I did financial modeling in banking, and I would do these, you know, these like models for M&A, all these other different type of
00:40:40
Speaker
opportunities that we were thinking about. And in venture, especially if you're really early, it's fun with numbers. It's not super technical. You don't have so many tabs and scenarios. And you use a bunch of shortcuts. And I think for me, it was like, oh, I don't know. I prided myself in being good in this and technical. And I would even go as far to argue.
00:41:06
Speaker
The times when you're doing or like weaving like a qualitative story, right? Whether you're selling an investment or whether you're selling a fund like something I would do, like that part of it actually takes, it's so much harder to learn because like the numbers, right? Like, you know them, you do the models a couple of times, you understand how financial statements work. It's done, you know, it's straightforward. There's a right answer, there's a wrong answer.
00:41:33
Speaker
If it doesn't balance, it doesn't balance, right? But I think to your point, I'm sure you feel this way sometimes, if you go and you're pitching an investment, you have to weave it into a story. And that's such an art. That takes so much time to do. And honestly, that has nothing to do with the articles. That can't necessarily be taught. I think that's a little bit of a talent.
00:41:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's a talent. And also like, if you're if you have the right kind of mentorship, like you can learn from how other people do it. Yeah. Yeah. It's very inherent to your style. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
00:42:06
Speaker
Yeah, and this is such a point, prestige, right? So not to make a generalization, and I'll be the one to say it. Banking people, especially out of undergrad, prestigious, there's hundreds of people at investment banks. And then at each analyst class, there's hundreds of people across the street, across bulge bracket banks, across boutiques and middle market investment banks. And then, like you said, after two years, people leave.
00:42:35
Speaker
A lot of times people put private equity and hedge funds at the top. And I would even say hedge funds are the most competitive, most prestigious because they're just not that many roles and it's really hard to be good at it. And so I know a lot of people, that's just their end goal. And a lot of people, I'm like, I don't know if you'd be good at this, but okay. It's really hard to be good at it because they want those million dollar bonuses.
00:43:02
Speaker
How do you, how did you think about like, was that a big factor for you? Leaving that prestige of being like, this is my fund. I got one of these few positions that's arguably more prestigious than investment banking. Like of the prestige, this is the prestige. Did you put that into your identity? Like how did, how would you find the confidence to separate yourself? Cause it wasn't right for you. You're saying like, like when I was leaving those roles,
00:43:30
Speaker
What made you decide to leave and gave you the confidence to be like, you know what, it's okay. I can leave this name brand behind.
00:43:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I think that's a great question and I think a lot of people in our world get swept up by that and almost have this like you know these golden handcuffs that you really don't know how to get rid of. I think it all came down to me and it came down to like how much you feel like you've gotten out of the job and whether you want to continue doing that. I think
00:44:01
Speaker
You just have to be very honest with yourself and you have to have your personal goals in mind. The way I thought about it was, what are the things that truly matter to me? What are the things that truly make me happy? I'm here, I'm at this really great place, but five years, 10 years down the line, do I see myself growing? Do I see myself being challenged? Is this somewhere where I can build a long-term career?
00:44:26
Speaker
the stability factor that we talked about is there, right? Like you have to be prepared to let go of that if the time comes, if the market turns. And so a lot of those things I think were floating around in my mind at that point. Like I'd been there for three years. I think I just had put in a lot of time and I
00:44:43
Speaker
I've learned so much, but at that point it was like, I didn't see the incremental value in terms of my growth. Like that additional year wouldn't necessarily have meant that like my own career was growing in like the, like where, you know, the first couple of years, I think the learning curve was so steep, like towards the end of my time, I feel like it was plateauing. But this is also keep in mind that like I was in a, like I was in a centralized research group and so
00:45:10
Speaker
this is different than if there were folks who are sitting more in like the long short analyst position that I think like you can take that and do that for however long you want. I think the learning curve is very different for that role, but that's how I thought about it. That being said, like the procedure. Did you ever think that you wanted to move into that role? Yeah. So it was actually a very like a decently like common enough path, especially if you had investment banking on your background, right?
00:45:39
Speaker
So it was very much an option for me, but I was consciously did not want to do that because again, like the stability aspect, right? Like I, high risk, high reward. I don't think I work like that. I think I'm a very risk averse person. And so that's that, you know, it's funny cause like I ended up going to a seed fund, which I think we can still argue is risky, but there's a bit more stability there where, you know, you're not getting,
00:46:06
Speaker
fired left and right. And for factors that you can't control, right? It's not like you're a bad analyst. Like half the time people get fired because it's the market. It's nothing that they did wrong. You know, finance in general is very male dominated. How have you seen the ranges in terms of how many women were working alongside you in your different roles?
00:46:36
Speaker
Yeah, so I think that I have been lucky that in most jobs that I've had, there has been a decent representation of women at the junior level. I think the problem really arises at the senior level. So in banking, half my analyst class was women. And so I'm still friends with a lot of those girls today.
00:47:04
Speaker
It's not easy being in a room full of like mostly male bosses, very hard to get the right mentorship, very hard to find the right connections. It is an unfortunate challenge in our industry and I think like.
00:47:19
Speaker
That's why you have to find the people that you really like. You have to find the right culture where you fit people who will support you. And there are, there are tons of great like men in the industry, men who recognize that this is like this gender gap disparity is like a big problem. And they're out there to help you, but you just have to make sure you're surrounded by the right people. And sometimes you have to go through a few bad experiences to do that. Yeah. Yeah. It's very eloquent way of putting it.
00:47:47
Speaker
But that's it. We are coming up on time. I have one last question I wanted to ask you about. As a woman who's not made her own money, we are pretty invested. What is your favorite investment or non-investment purchase? You know, I knew you were going to ask me this. This is it. This is like, I've heard this on other episodes of your podcast. Let's see. My, I'll go with my favorite purchase.
00:48:16
Speaker
So this is going to be, I'm not sure how you're going to react to this, but my favorite purchase is actually my Dyson vacuum. I think it's one of those things where I will pay anything for quality and convenience.
00:48:36
Speaker
And I think it really, really, in my opinion, I mean, I'm like a clean freak. I like I hate dust. There's like no stucco dust in my apartment. It does its job so well. And it's such a quality product. It's so convenient. It's wireless. You take it out. It has like
00:48:52
Speaker
Five different like heads that you can use. How much is it? So I got it on a great deal. The new, the new, I think the new model is about somewhere around $500. It's not insane, right? But for a vacuum cleaner, you know, it's definitely out there. I got mine on sale maybe around $250. I can't remember. Wow. So half the price. There's this website called slick deals. I don't know if you use it. Good tip.
00:49:20
Speaker
Yeah, you should take a look. It's every day they kind of like post like the best deals that are happening like in a hotel. Yeah, dude, it's great. It's great. I actually spend like five minutes on on it like every day. After the meditation, you go on slick deals. That's literally good. I'm ready and prepared to go to shop. And you know, you would argue, I mean, I would argue that like when I end up shopping a lot more than I normally would when I see a deal.
00:49:48
Speaker
But then it's like justified. That's girl math. I saved $250. Now I get to spend $250. Exactly my point. So I freaking love my Dyson. And I just I use it like every single day. So yeah.
00:50:04
Speaker
If you're on the market for a vacuum cleaner, take a look. Yeah. I also feel like sometimes I like things more because I got them on a good deal. Like how much you like something. Like for me, it's so correlated to how much you pay for it. Yeah. A hundred percent.
00:50:21
Speaker
Well, thank you again, Pratika, for joining us on this episode. And thank you all for joining us on listening to us talk about her insane career path. So few people, I think, actually have had a line of vision on all these different industries within the financial services world. And just being so honest about your experiences, it's really rare to hear these honest stories.
00:50:48
Speaker
And whether or not you want to join one of these industries, I think it's just fascinating to learn about because we hear so much on like media and TV shows, but what it's actually like, and especially for a woman because those perspectives aren't really portrayed. Yeah. But yes, thanks guys for listening. We're pretty invested everywhere and we'll be back again next week. Thanks guys. Thank you for having me.