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Confessions of a Former Congressional Staffer - Pay Your Public Servants
116 Plays1 year ago
On this episode, LD and Eleanor interview Beverly Hart. Beverly is newly a Director at Etsy working on state and local advocacy, and at the time of our interview, she was the Director of Federal Affairs at a non-profit. She previously spent five years in the U. S. House of Representatives in D. C. Beverly creates hilarious Tik Toks (@beverlyjhart) about her experience on the Hill and is one of the *only* creators discussing what it's like to work in Congress.
The ladies discuss how to get a job on the Hill, the career path, the pay… And how to think about wanting to “do good” AND having a good salary. Plus some bonus fun stuff on dating in DC versus NYC.
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Pretty Invested Media and this related information does not constitute professional or financial advice of any kind (including business, employment, investment advisory, accounting, tax, and/or legal advice). Advice from a suitably qualified professional should always be sought in relation to any particular matter or circumstance.
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Transcript
Introduction to Pretty Invested
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Pretty Invested. I'm Eleanor and this is LB. Presented by your favorite ex-finance bros. We talk about the money things you actually care about.
Career Journey of Beverly Hart
00:00:12
Speaker
Hi everyone, please welcome Beverly Hart to the podcast. Beverly's currently the director of federal affairs at a nonprofit and she previously spent five years in the US House of Representatives.
00:00:21
Speaker
in DC, and she was also a risk consultant at PwC and graduated from GW. Beverly creates hilarious TikToks about her experience on the Hill and is one of the only creators discussing what it's like to work in Congress. We especially love her series on how to tell someone's political affiliation based on their clothing.
Challenges on Capitol Hill
00:00:41
Speaker
And we're not going to get deep into politics on this episode, but I think it's such a pertinent conversation on what it's like
00:00:47
Speaker
having one of those highly coveted positions on the Hill. And so we're so excited to have you on to speak about your experiences working in what really shouldn't be an opaque industry. To start us off Beverly, how did you know you wanted to go work on the Hill and when did that passion start? Yeah, well, thank you for having me ladies. I knew from like an early age, I grew up in the DC area in Maryland. My parents worked in politics.
00:01:11
Speaker
before my time and my mom was an American government teacher so it just was like, honestly the only thing we talked about at the dinner table. And so it was funny like going to undergrad in South Carolina, and nobody talked about politics I was like so confused I was like, what else is there to discuss. I didn't know that like, it would get people fired up because I always
00:01:31
Speaker
you know, just always a part of the conversation. So I know I wanted to do something like mission driven, people focused, and like where else have such a huge impact literally nationwide than for the US Congress. So it had always kind of been my dream to work on the Hill and I moved back.
00:01:46
Speaker
to DC after working at PwC. I moved back to DC to get my master's and just started applying to
How to Secure a Job on Capitol Hill
00:01:53
Speaker
jobs. I applied to, oh my god, like hundreds of Hill jobs until I finally got one. It was like so hard, but I'm glad that I kind of waited it out. Yeah. So both Laidina and I come from finance backgrounds and there's kind of a track that you take like courses, a major. What's the track that people have to do in order to get on the Hill? Is it specific internships?
00:02:15
Speaker
How did you go about securing that type of position? Yeah, and back when I was looking for Hill jobs, there was no TikTok because I am 29. So I was literally reading Reddit and weird blogs. I was like, how do you find a job on Capitol Hill? So it was hard to find resources because I think you can get a job on the Hill one of a handful of ways. One, you work for a campaign. So if you work for a local or state,
00:02:41
Speaker
or a representative campaign, and they see you as valuable, they might bring you on with them. So working for a campaign is a big one. I think that's how a lot of people get their start, because a lot of young people work on campaigns. Or two, you intern. I had never interned on Capitol Hill, and that was a huge problem. I would ask for feedback if I wasn't hearing back or if I had an interview but didn't get the job. You have to put your ego away and be like,
00:03:05
Speaker
If you have any feedback, let me know. And the feedback was always like, you seem great, but we want someone who has a Capitol Hill internship.
Financial Struggles in Politics
00:03:12
Speaker
So at that time, back in 2017, that's when I started in Congress, internships were unpaid. So I was like,
00:03:19
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to do this." My parents were like, absolutely not. Do not do that in this, but I did because I felt like it was the only mechanism to get in because for these like entry level, like staff assistant is like the entry level job, press assistant, something like that. They get like 300 applicants and all of them look the same.
00:03:39
Speaker
doing it from the other side hiring my own assistants like everyone's talented everyone's great it's like how do you set yourself apart like we honestly didn't really look at applicants who had never had a hill internship which is tough because that eliminates a huge swath of people who can't afford what was an unpaid internship and is now a very low paid internship
00:03:59
Speaker
But yeah, so I went and interned and quit my job and worked like three other side jobs, but I thought it was worth it. And in the end, I feel like it was, but definitely was like quite the hustle. And it was very sad on my bank account at the time. Wait, what three jobs did you work on the side? How did you find time for that?
00:04:19
Speaker
So I was working at like a trade association and my boss was really great and she loved me. And I was like, it's just my dream to do this. Like I'm young, this is my time. So she let me be like part time with them. And I got paid what my salary was, but hourly. So I worked there for like two days. And then I worked as an intern, you know, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday or something. And then I worked every morning from 5 a.m. to 9 a.m. at like a Pilates bar studio.
00:04:49
Speaker
And then I'd go into Congress. And then I also was in grad school, so I'd do grad school at night. And then on the weekends, I would pick up side jobs. I mean, it was truly the most chaotic time of
Satisfaction and Legislation Contributions
00:04:59
Speaker
my life. Now, if you told me how to do that, now if I have three things to do in a day, I'm like, oh my God, I need to lay down. But no, I would literally be working from 5 AM until 10 o'clock at night with grad school and these side jobs. It was crazy. That's wild. When you say that it was worth it,
00:05:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question. I think there's no place like Congress, right? Like there's no other job that I can think of where you can write, like I wrote bills that became United States law, right? Like that's so crazy. I have like print offs of bills that are literally law in this country. Like that is such an amazing, crazy thing to think like me, just a girl from Maryland. So that, I mean, like the payoff is huge. You get to be a part of these like,
00:05:44
Speaker
giant moments in history. I remember like growing up my mom telling me about how she was like, this impeachment or like this event or all these things. I thought it was so cool. And I'm like, hopefully one day my kids will also think I'm cool that I was like, at the impeachment or all these other things going on and bad, right?
00:06:02
Speaker
So it just feels exciting to be a part of it. And also, you feel like you're making a difference.
Career Advancement for Hill Staffers
00:06:07
Speaker
I think a lot of young people, I'm sure you guys feel like this, as the world is happening around you, you're like, what do I do? I can vote, but does that feel like enough? It just felt like...
00:06:18
Speaker
every day in my job in my nine to five I was like doing something worthwhile to help someone so that I feel like was the best part and then I think it obviously like it's not just like butterflies and rainbows of like I just want to do good like definitely open stores right like I think there's like a big payout if you stick it out a little bit into like kind of some better paying jobs at the end not dirt so so what is the path because
00:06:44
Speaker
I'm assuming most people don't just stay on that entry-level salary. What's the end goal for most people who start to set the career? Yeah, so I would say like just for me, I started as an intern and then was like five jobs in between. I was like staff assistant, press assistant, legislative assistant, legislative director, and that took from intern to legislative director about four or five years, which I think that can vary. I think the average tenure
00:07:09
Speaker
on the House side is about two years, which is sad because it is, I mean, it's a really hard place to work. People don't get paid any money. I think on the Senate side, it's a little longer, but the track would usually, I would say, anecdotally be like, you stay on the Hill for a few years. I think if you make it to legislative director, that's, your payout gets bigger, right? So like, you could either become one, a lobbyist. They say it's like the K Street payout. K Street is like a street in DC where all the lobbying firms are.
00:07:38
Speaker
So you could go be a lobbyist on K Street and like your salary would jump by like 100K. Like when I was a legislative director my last year, I was making like 90K, which I mean, at the time I was like, I'm a millionaire compared to like, when I started making my first job, I was making 37K, like in Washington DC, that's fine, right? So if I left to become like,
00:08:02
Speaker
a multi-client lobbyist or something, I could be making $250K. Think about how big that jump is, right?
The Reality of Lobbying
00:08:10
Speaker
Being a lobbyist is a big payout. You could become a consultant. You could do
00:08:15
Speaker
you know, campaign media, anything like that. I think the big thing people want to do if you're really like a lifer, a DC like Politico, is to work for the White House. If you start in Congress, I think like the dream is to work for the administration. So either at the White House or like at an agency like the EPA or HHS, something like that.
00:08:37
Speaker
I remember a few kids in college whose parents worked as lobbyists and I feel like they went on pretty bougie vacations but I never fully understood like what it entailed to be a lobbyist and I feel like they kind of have a negative connotation without really like people understanding what they do for work like
00:09:00
Speaker
Is there truth to like the sliminess of the title of lobbyist? And like, are you really selling your soul for the job? No, that's a good question. I think there is like, there are some slimy people for certain politics. I think it'd be ridiculous to pretend like people are just there to help people. I think it depends on where you're lobbying. Like I'm technically a federal lobbyist, but I lobby on behalf of like cancer patients, right? So that's a good kind of lobbyist. I think it's all in the eye of the beholder. There's definitely like, you could lobby for big oil.
00:09:30
Speaker
if that's what gets you up in the morning that works too like you're definitely going to be getting paid a lot more i think you know there's give and take i think lobbyists aren't necessarily a bad thing you could be lobbying for a really great cause basically a lobbyist is like
00:09:44
Speaker
you're just trying to convince someone to support your ideas. So it just depends on if those ideas are good. Like I, as a lobbyist now, I go to Capitol Hill, I go to the administration and encourage them to like work on issues that are important to our population, which is cancer patients.
Money and Political Success
00:10:01
Speaker
So I think that could be a good lobbyist, but there's certainly bad ones. And I do think they kind of have this like dirty word around them because there is a lot of like, I mean, Congress in general, a lot of it is, you know,
00:10:14
Speaker
like pushed around by money. So like if I'm a lobbyist, like where I work doesn't do this, but many have PACs, like a political action committee, which is donating money to a member of Congress. So if I'm your biggest donor, you're probably going to want to do what I say, also maybe take away all that money I'm giving you. So that's when it can start to get a little slimy because like, you know, I think they say like,
00:10:39
Speaker
certain parties are in the hands of like the gun lobby or whatever because like their biggest funder is the NRA or you know what I mean? And so it wouldn't make sense for them to vote against a bill that would hurt their biggest donor. And so I think it can get sticky when the PACs and the lobbyists become one. You know what I mean? Maybe a little bit of a tangent, but
00:11:07
Speaker
So a big reason that Laidina and I wanted to go into finance is because money makes the world go around. Totally. From this current structure, is it just whoever has the most money wins? How do you currently feel like this machine is going? Is it overturning certain campaign financing? Or is it truly just whoever has the most money wins?
00:11:34
Speaker
I think it depends. I think it's changing a little bit, but I think that's a great question.
00:11:39
Speaker
My old boss, for example, I used to work for Dean Phillips. He's a Minnesota Rep. He is like one of, I think he is the only member of Congress who takes no PAC money, no money from other members of Congress, like no big donor donations at all, just from constituents. And like, I will say like he certainly like also can help fund himself. It's not like he comes from nothing per se, but like that is how I wish the rest of Congress was. And so I loved working for him because a big part of his platform was campaign finance reform.
00:12:08
Speaker
Like members of Congress spend like an insane amount of hours in their day when they should be like doing the work of the people, calling donors to try and get money. You know what I mean? Like money does talk. Money is what drives everything and be ridiculous to think it doesn't. I think there are some people that can like kind of push through that. A good example just like to think about is
00:12:31
Speaker
Joe Crowley and AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I feel like very famous for that, right? She beat Joe Crowley, who at the time was like very high up in congressional leadership, kind of an establishment Democrat, had a lot of campaign money, tons of it, right? She had like, I'm going to get these numbers wrong. If he had like $5 million, she had like $100,000 and somehow she still was able to
Social Media's Role in Political Funding
00:12:55
Speaker
beat him.
00:12:55
Speaker
just based off her grassroots campaigning. So it's definitely possible. But our system is not set up for people without money to win Congress, which is a bad system and not really a democracy. So it is tough because I think that's why I think people have this distrust in government. I think there's a lot of great people that work there and a lot of great members who want to do good. But to stay in office, you need money. So if you want to stay and do the good work, you need donors. So it's like, how do you strike that balance, right? Yeah.
00:13:27
Speaker
I think a really big frustration for me coming from Eastern Europe, like we immigrated to the States after communism broke down in the country that I was born in. And so we kind of really held democracy as like this ideal that my parents had strived for growing up. And then I was a little disillusioned by that when I started to work on like a small grassroots campaign when I was an intern.
00:13:55
Speaker
to basically fight against big aggro. And I found out how inefficient the process was, and I started to learn more about what's legal in the US, that's illegal in Europe and a lot of the other developed world, and just how much big food kind of controls the legislation.
00:14:18
Speaker
Do you feel like that's going to be disintermediated in any way by social media? With the example of AOC, I feel like social media was so helpful for her. She's so likable. Absolutely. Yeah. Do you think that that's going to help at all? Or how do we get through this weird, inefficient state with our democracy? Great question. I'm glad you brought this
Influence of the Food Lobby
00:14:40
Speaker
up. If you guys are interested in the role money plays in agriculture policy in the US, there's this great book called Food Fix.
00:14:48
Speaker
that I think just like really sums up really well, but like in general, it is insane. Like just a few thoughts on this is like one, like, you know, the, what do they call it now? The food pyramid, food site? I don't know what it's called. That's like made up, right? It's literally the people who make it are at the USDA, but the board of people on there, like some of them are from like Coca-Cola, like it's crazy. Like none of them, and like none of the like food recommendations we give people are based in real facts.
00:15:15
Speaker
because the food lobby is so strong, the sugar lobby, the soda lobby, the big meat lobby, it is insane. And then you think about like our country, the United States has more chronic health issues than any other developed country. And I think a lot of it is to do with what we're putting in our bodies, but like nobody wants to talk about that because then they'll stop getting donations, right? My old boss, I worked for a New York member,
00:15:39
Speaker
for about four of the five years I was on the Hill was on the Agriculture Committee and it is crazy. You can just tell like where people get their donations because suddenly they become so quiet when we're talking about some of these things. But I think like having these conversations and like this was like kind of a reason I wanted to start the TikTok is like I just wish
00:15:59
Speaker
people talked about these things more. I feel like people don't know our cosmetics aren't regulated at all because I feel like it's seen as a woman's issue. Nobody talks about it, but your skin absorbs 60% of what you put on it, but the products aren't regulated by the US
Gen Z's Political Engagement
00:16:15
Speaker
markets. They're regulated in Europe, but not here. You know what I mean? The food we're ingesting.
00:16:20
Speaker
It's crazy. Even if you're not political, these things seep into your everyday life. It's like where you go to school, what you learn in school, how much your hospital bills cost, what your paycheck looks like. I do think podcasts like this and social media and all of that, I hope we're all like,
00:16:38
Speaker
break through the BS a little bit. And I feel like the young, I don't know what generation you guys are, but I feel like the Gen Z younger generation is so involved and interested in this stuff, which like brings me so much hope, honestly. Yeah. And I know we, we drew some like big existential questions. Like, you know, how do we fix our political system? Maybe taking a little bit lighter. I'm so curious. Like what's the, you said you were there for the impeachment. What?
00:17:07
Speaker
maybe that or what is one of the wildest stories that you had during your experience actually working on Capitol Hill?
00:17:16
Speaker
Oh my God, yeah. I mean, there's some really crazy ones. I think as you guys can imagine, it has started to become, it's a big reason I left. It's a heavy place to work. There are some truly psychopaths that work there these days. And I mean that, like, I think most people that are there are great, but the people we hear about on the news and via social media are the extremes of both parties. And like, I mean, I've been in an elevator with like, during COVID,
00:17:43
Speaker
We like, we were still kind of wearing masks. It was like that, you know, that in between time. And I was in elevator with another staffer and like Marjorie Taylor Greene walked in and was like coughing on us. Like just, you're just like, I'm just like a child. Like, why are you like crazy stuff? You're like, you're a member of Congress, like insane. But yeah, like being.
00:18:01
Speaker
There for both impeachments was insane.
Disillusionment with Political Theatre
00:18:03
Speaker
I was at work January 5th, the day before, obviously January 6th. And my office was like, don't come in. You know, we're nervous. And my boss was in leadership at the time. And so he was on the house floor when it happened and was like truly calling his family being like, here's where the will is.
00:18:23
Speaker
like, telling his kids, like, I love you, whatever. I was like, oh my, because also like not in like a selfish way, but if your boss dies, you lose your job. And so we're like worried about him as a human being, as also like existential crisis of like, now I don't have a job. Also like this building that I love and admire in this place that I've always respected is like under attack. Like, it's just this crazy thing to watch and feel like that feeling of hopelessness, right? Of like, what can I even do? What's happening to our country?
00:18:54
Speaker
So yes, I mean some truly, definitely some funny moments, but I think some of the heavy ones have overshadowed it recently the last few years. I'm sure the last few years have been especially tolling and heavy on an individual. I was like that you lasted five years. It's pretty impressive. Like you, you moved on from the Hill. Did you think that you were going to be like more
Why People Leave Congress
00:19:20
Speaker
of a lifer? Is there a,
00:19:21
Speaker
Any incentives or ways that you think that people might be more incentivized to stay longer? Yeah, honestly, when I started, I was like, I'm going to be a lifer. People always joke, that's going to be here forever. And my main goal, I'm sure you guys have a five-year plan, right? So when I started as an intern, I was like, I want to become a legislative director. That was the dream. I want to be able to be shaping policy. The job of a legislative director is to basically tell your member of Congress how to vote. Kind of like an exciting job. It's a lot of pressure.
00:19:51
Speaker
It feels like, you know, you're really a part of the mix. So that was always my dream. I got there and I loved that job, but I was like, now what? You know what I mean? It started to feel like, I mean, the reason I wanted to do this work was to help people. And it has, by the end, it just started to feel like a little bit of political theater. I think that I hope and I do believe will go away. I think
00:20:14
Speaker
you know, democracy's ebb and flow, right? Like right now I think it's kind of a chaotic time and that's what's sexy in the media. But I hope that when the younger generation maybe gets involved in politics, that will change. And I think the more transparency and the more we kind of call politicians and all that out, I think the more we'll like kind of stop, put an end to that. But people do stay. I mean, I have colleagues that stayed for like, you know, I've been there for like 20 years, I would say like,
00:20:42
Speaker
two to five years is the max. And the reason is because they don't pay enough. I mean, you can't retain talented, smart people. They say like, this is probably an inaccurate statistic, but I read this article that was like, DC has the lowest pay, but the highest education levels. I mean, like people I worked with were like Harvard, like went to Harvard law school, you know, all these Ivy league schools and we're getting paid 50 K.
00:21:07
Speaker
I mean, they could make $300K at a law firm. What is their incentive to stay? You know what I mean? So we lost a lot of talented people because of the pay.
Politics vs. Finance: A Lifestyle Contrast
00:21:16
Speaker
Yeah. And we were talking about this earlier and saying, you shouldn't have to be a martyr in order to do good and want to help and influence legislation about the things that you care about.
00:21:28
Speaker
And yeah, what was it? It's like you could have the opportunity costs to become a lobbyist, to go to law school, to go into finance. What was it like for you? I don't know if you had any friends who were in tech or finance and, or maybe in DC, everyone's a little bit in the industry, like comparing lines.
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah, that's so funny. I feel like in DC, I would say 80% of my friends in DC worked in politics and the only 20% was because I grew up there and also went to grad school there. Otherwise, it would have been 100%. I think DC, the industry is politics, whether that's
00:22:03
Speaker
working administration in congress at like some type of you know pack campaign thing whatever so comparing my life to dc people i felt fine and then i talked to my friends who lived in new york or sf or wherever worked in tech and finance and like all these other jobs and they i was making like 40k and i had to turn down bachelorette parties weddings like
00:22:25
Speaker
you know, was living paycheck to paycheck and they were flying to Paris. So we were living different lives and you start to be like, is this worth it? You know, it's tough. And like social media makes you, it's kind of a trap. It makes you think everyone's living this like sexy stylish life. And you're like, I can barely afford to eat dinner.
Congressional Career Archetypes
00:22:43
Speaker
You know, that gets to be a little tough. I feel like for finance, a lot of what attracts people to the industry is just like straight up the money.
00:22:56
Speaker
And that invites like a certain archetype of person. Yeah. In politics, did the kids going into it or like, you know, like the 22 to 25 year olds going into it, do they have like family money to fall back on generally? Like, it's very brave to go into something purely because it feeds your soul, knowing that it won't pay off for a few years. So like, how do people manage that psychologically?
00:23:22
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's a great question. I think they're kind of like, I joke, like three types of hill people. I think if we're being honest, I think this is a small portion, but one is the Nepo baby. It's like,
00:23:33
Speaker
Their parents were donors. They went to an Ivy League school. They got the job through Connections. You can spot that person a mile away. They stayed for like a year or two just to say they did it. I think the second type of person is that person who's like, I want to do good. I want to help people. They like bright eyed and bushy tailed. You know, they were probably like president of their high school. They started like young Democrats in college. Like it's a very specific personality type. We always say like DC is like Hollywood
00:23:59
Speaker
Hollywood for nerds like if you were like a little nerdy like little freak in high school where people of DC will love you like we love little nerdy weirdos in DC so you could be the coolest person in DC which is kind of a fun thing I think and I think the third type is kind of like this person who
00:24:18
Speaker
either wants to find purpose through this job, which you never will. It's not gonna be West Wing, it's not House of Cards. There is no glamour. It's like you're, again, getting paid 50K, you're working 70 hour weeks. So those are the people that usually leave super quick. And usually I think the lifers are the bright-eyed and bushy-tailed people. I always told my interns, they're like, how long should I stay? Whatever, whatever. And I'm like, if you ever are walking through the halls of Congress and you don't think it's a cool place to work anymore, then you should leave.
00:24:48
Speaker
You know what I mean? Cause you don't want to become bitter and jaded.
Gender and Diversity Challenges on Capitol Hill
00:24:51
Speaker
I'm sure there's like different references for y'all's industry, but like, if you don't think the work is cool anymore, I think you have to leave. Cause otherwise, I mean, you spend so much time at work. I don't know. I feel like you have to sort of like it, right? Yeah. It's something that I love about your content is you're saying how to tell these different things about someone based off their shoes, their bags. And it's like, yeah, you still are a consumer. You want to engage in fashion.
00:25:18
Speaker
Is that something that you're interested in and how do people within your industry kind of engage with consumer spending and budgeting? Yeah. I think like budgeting, I did none of. I feel like I was always so embarrassed to talk about this, but maybe this will resonate with people. Like I, and I am paying for it now in credit card debt. Like I did no budgeting. I was making 37K. I could barely afford my rent.
00:25:45
Speaker
I would like steal toilet paper from the bathroom, like a mess. I like was not budgeting. So that I like look back and I wish I had gotten some advice. I swear that like they teach men in high school or college, like some type of secret finance class and they teach women, like, I don't know, creative writing. Like I feel like all the men in my life have their finances totally under control. And that's why I think like what you guys are doing is so fabulous. But like, I'm like, when did nobody taught me this? My parents never taught me this. Like my mom still balances.
00:26:14
Speaker
her checkbook, you know, she's very old school. She has no idea like what investing is, you know what I mean? And then as far as dressing, I think like DC is like that last stronghold of like this archaic conservative way of dressing. Like you have to wear a suit to even step onto the house floor. Like I've been with staff who are like in a button down and they're like, you can't come up, like you need a suit jacket, right? Like what other job is like that? So it's kind of this like very old school place. It's also this dichotomy that like, I'm sure you guys will appreciate of like,
00:26:43
Speaker
you wanna be taken seriously as a woman. And the last thing I want someone to notice about me, especially when I was younger, cause I like, you know, had imposter syndrome. I was like, I wanna be serious. I wore like fake glasses. I was like, this will make me look smarter. It's like, you wanna like, you know, look good, but also like not too good. Like there's this weird dichotomy of trying to look professional, but I honestly tried to look boring. I was like, I just wanna be in a black suit every day. I don't want anyone to notice what I'm wearing. Cause it's this thing of like,
00:27:10
Speaker
It's not, but it feels feminine to care about what you're wearing when actually it's the opposite, but I think that's like, you know, the patriarchy putting you down. Like if you look different, dress different, you know, do something unique that it's somehow unprofessional. So my thoughts on fashion have evolved greatly, but my first few years in Congress, all I wore was like ugly, like J. Crew factory black dresses. That's it. I had no fashion sense whatsoever.
00:27:39
Speaker
Do you think that was rooted in some sort of truth where people would be judgmental? 100%. Oh, 100%. And I feel like, I mean, you're in a room with members of, I think like a lot of, in my TikTok talk about this, like politics is a game of like sociology, right? It's like,
00:27:56
Speaker
you're constantly selling yourself. So like members don't wear anything on accident. Like I've been with my member of Congress before he's about to go on TV and we're debating which tie he should wear for like 20 minutes as if anyone cares about that. But like they really do care. Like it's a lot of looks, right? It's a lot of charm, a lot of charisma, and a lot of charm is tied into the way you're dressed.
00:28:17
Speaker
And like you want to dress for the job you want, right? So I think like members of Congress care about that. So IE the staff cares about that. It's kind of like this trickle down thing. Like you really want to look professional. And some members I think like the more millennial like new members maybe don't care. And I bet their staff dresses a lot more casually. Do you ever feel like women have an upper hand in the industry? Because in a way a lot of it is EQ based. And so like we do just happen to be better at that naturally.
00:28:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's again, there's like funny balance of like, one, they always say like, no woman's ever been like, you should run, like you look like a politician. I like you should run for Congress. Like a woman needs to be asked like 10 times before a show went for office, a man doesn't need to be asked once. So it's like, there's that. But I also like, I feel like women are much better leaders. Like we do have this natural EQ politics.
00:29:09
Speaker
is a people game. It's not really about, obviously it's about the policy, but like your staff is doing most of that. So the best and most effective members of Congress have emotional intelligence. And I think like women just naturally can like read rooms better, you know? I'm curious. So I know Congress is not equally balanced. What does it look like behind the scenes? Like as far as like the staff's political idea?
00:29:33
Speaker
I'd say that's a good question. I would say most people are Democrats on both sides of the aisle.
Efforts to Diversify Political Staff
00:29:38
Speaker
Obviously, all the Democratic staff are probably a little more liberal than their boss. But working there, you realize that you need moderates to get anything done. That's just the way the system is set up. So working there definitely makes you kind of a moderate a little bit because you're like, okay, let's be reasonable.
00:29:55
Speaker
But I would say a lot of, I have a handful of Republican side friends. I would say most of them are moderate. Most of them are not fans of our last president. I would say most of their bosses aren't either. Most of their bosses are quite moderate, but they kind of have to, I don't know, it's really interesting if you talk to people behind the scenes. I would say almost 70% of the staff is pretty liberal.
00:30:22
Speaker
Which is, yeah, even like the, like even the Republican stuff. Yeah. And is it mostly men who work there or women? I would say it's definitely like a male dominated industry. I think it's getting better because.
00:30:38
Speaker
you know, health care, like those types of policy issues, usually women are drawn to. So like, I would say mostly men, but definitely, I think, especially men in leadership roles, most of my bosses, I mean, both of my members have been men, most of my chiefs have been men, like, I've very rarely had a female boss in my life, honestly.
00:30:58
Speaker
So I think hopefully they're working on that pipeline. I think it's also mostly white because, like I said, internships were barely paid. They're minorly paid now, but it leaves out a huge portion of people who can't afford to get paid. Maybe we pay our interns $1,000 a month. What is that going to get you? So you either need two or three other jobs or you need some help from your family. And if you don't have that, I have so many
00:31:26
Speaker
When I was on the other side giving out internships or staff assistant jobs, I had so many people of color and people turned down the jobs because they're like, Oh my God, I just like can't afford this. And like, we can't offer them more money. Like the budget is super finite. You know what I mean? Yeah.
00:31:42
Speaker
Were there ever quotas to make concerted efforts to diversify the team? They definitely do that in finance. And it's to the point where sometimes you'll make fun of other analysts and be like, oh, you were clearly a diversity hire if they make a mistake. Oh, really? Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. That's interesting. Some women become MDs. And it's like, oh, well, she was only an MD because she was a woman. But that doesn't really exist. There's definitely no
00:32:09
Speaker
larger. There's no HR. It's a ridiculous place to work. There are 435 little offices on the hill. They're basically 435 tiny companies. There's no regulation. That's why they use a huge sexual harassment issues. It is a hot mess. But there's no quota. You couldn't really do anything you want, which is terrifying.
00:32:30
Speaker
We do have a team of lawyers, but I doubt anyone does much with that as far as hiring them. I do think it's gotten better in the past few years. So much so that I do notice it's the kind of thing where you care about diversity all of a sudden. I feel like bosses or people I've talked to have been like, oh, our entire team is white. Maybe we should think about that. You've been doing this for a decade. You just thought about that. And then they kind of want to force the next hire
00:33:00
Speaker
to be something specific and that is a problem. Like you need to be thinking about this all the time at every stage so that you're not like trying to shove down a candidate who we're not going to give them an opportunity for success if they're not the right candidate for this job. You know what I mean? I feel like people think diversity and inclusion is like, well, we hired somebody who is a person of color or we put a woman in a leadership position. But if we're not setting them up for success by hiring them for a job,
00:33:29
Speaker
that they can do, then they're going to have a terrible time and they're going to leave. And then they're going to be set back personally. So there is no laws or anything. It really is people just shooting off the hip.
House vs. Senate Staff Dynamics
00:33:40
Speaker
But I do think people are trying to be more cautious of it, especially after 2020 and Black Lives Matter. And they're starting to unionize on the hell. That's a new thing. So I think it is starting to get a little bit better, which is good. And how big are each of the teams for each representative?
00:33:58
Speaker
So on the house side, there's 22 staff split between your district and your DC office. So it's usually about like 10 and 10, 18 full time, four part time. So that's not a ton of people. On the senate side, it could be anywhere from like a few dozen to like
00:34:14
Speaker
I don't know, 70, 80. It depends on like who you are, like your state, your position, if you're like in leadership or something. So it's tough on the house side. That's why the house side is kind of like, I love the house side. You're either like a house girly or a Senate girly. I'm a house girly.
00:34:31
Speaker
It's kind of like your horoscope, like I'm a fire sign. Like the house side is just pure chaos. Like you're running around like a chicken with your head cut off because there's like three or four people tops on your policy team. Whereas on the Senate side, there's like 20. So it's like, I'm splitting every issue.
00:34:48
Speaker
in the United States with three other people, whereas on the Senate they're splitting it with 20. So I was doing everything from like environment, education, women's rights, healthcare, veterans, agriculture, finance, like, you know what I mean? And obviously you're not like an expert in all these areas. So House side is a little chaotic. That's where I think people leave pretty quickly. And then the Senate side, people stay a little longer. Also like the terms are longer than two years.
Women Legislators' Impact
00:35:13
Speaker
So it's easier to stay and actually like
00:35:15
Speaker
get more thoughtful work done. Whereas in the house side, they have two years. And so they're like, let's do whatever we can in two years. You know what I mean? With the gender dynamics. So I think like it's been my experience and I've like kind of picked this up from other women in finance as well. That like sometimes when we were voicing our opinions, like we kind of felt like we would just get like a proverbial pat on the head.
00:35:40
Speaker
And we feel like accessories in the room, but I feel like you've been really successful in having your ideas materialized into legislation. So like, do you feel like it is more of an egalitarian process or do you feel like there's still progress to be made for women to be taken more seriously? There's definitely progress. I feel like it has been helpful to have more women in leadership
00:36:06
Speaker
helping push, you know, kind of, if I brought a bill to a woman, I think she's probably going to take it a little more seriously. I think like a good example is I wrote a bill about cosmetics regulation, which is something I care deeply about my, I worked for a male boss. He, it's not something he would naturally care about. Right. So we did.
00:36:26
Speaker
And the only reason we brought it up is because this sounds so crazy. You guys can be like, this is how our country is run. But we did this thing on a bill competition where me and the other two assistants brought a bill idea to the congressman. And he was going to pick one. Basically, it was a way to be creative and make you feel like your voice is heard, that kind of thing. So it was a great idea. And he picked my bill. And we did called the Natural Cosmetics Act.
00:36:51
Speaker
I don't want to get on my soapbox about this, but like terms like non-toxic, clean, green, whatever. They have no federal definition. They're standard, right? So like companies just slap that on their products because they know it sells. So the bill is kind of about labeling and whatever.
Career Advice and TikTok Motivation
00:37:06
Speaker
And it got included in last year's omnibus. It's like a big package of bills. Wasn't that a huge deal? Yes, very huge. It was like part of my bill for us, which is very exciting. I know. And like so cool.
00:37:22
Speaker
And honestly, like a pinchy moment. But until that happened in 2022, the last piece of federal legislation around cosmetics was in 1938. And I think it happened because of me, but it happened because women were pushing the agenda. And back in the day, there were no women working there. There were barely any women in Congress. So I do think it's gotten better because we've elected women, we've hired women to bring up these issues.
00:37:51
Speaker
I think men care about these issues. It's just like, they don't even know about them because that's not their experience. You know? Oh my God. Like I have chills. Like that's terrifying. Well, and like, think about how much the science has changed since 1938. Like, yeah, it's insane. Yeah. And so why, I guess maybe two questions. Is there anything that you wish someone had told you before getting into the industry? I feel like a bunch of us, especially when we're younger, we're
00:38:20
Speaker
very civil minded and are interested in that in going to work on the government. But you know, why did you start to talk? What did you wish that you knew that wasn't available? No, totally. I think
00:38:34
Speaker
I wish people had told me like one imposter syndrome, everybody feels it. Like I truly was like, I never asked any questions. Like my first year in Congress, I did not ask one single question. I was so shy. I wish somebody had said like, just pretend, like fake it, like have the confidence of an average white man. You know what I mean? Like I wish that I had just
00:38:54
Speaker
asked more questions been more vocal once like a boss of mine this was like profound to me he called me and and i was like oh my god i'm getting fired you know like that feeling when your boss calls which i've like never been fired so i don't know why that's like a fear but he was like can i give you some feedback out of the blue and i was like sure he's like
00:39:10
Speaker
you never speak up in meetings when I know that you know the answer and I was like and it like took a man telling me that to be like oh you're right like I need to speak up so I wish somebody had kind of like slapped the shyness out of me I was so shy and quiet and now like I would go up to anyone it's funny because
00:39:28
Speaker
My last year on the Hill, I had this assistant who is like so tenacious, so amazing. She's like 22. And she, we would go to events and she would just walk up to anybody. She'd walk up to ambassadors, senators. She'd walk up to the president if he was there. She had no fear whatsoever. And she would make all these connections, have all these fabulous conversations, like, like knew everybody and like has moved up really quickly. And I feel like she just, I think she has fear. I think she's just like, I'm going to fake it. Like, I'm here. I got this job. I'm in the room.
00:39:57
Speaker
Like why not? So I think I also kind of had like this stupid complex about a lot of people on the Hill went to like Ivy league schools, whatever. I went to like University of South Carolina for undergrad and I had a silly complex about that. And I remember reading some like Obama staffer biography. I forget who it was. And she was like in a room, like in the situation room, right? And she also went to a state school and someone was like,
00:40:23
Speaker
They all, all the other men in the room said something like about they all went to Yale or something. And she was like, they were like, Oh, does that make you feel insecure? And she was like, No, like, we're all sitting in the situation room right now. Like, I don't feel insecure. So I wish I just had a little more confidence to ask questions and like, take up space. And that was kind of like a reason I wanted to do the tik toks. Like,
00:40:44
Speaker
One, you can't really have, depends on your office, but you can't really have TikTok on Capitol Hill because of like the China thing. I don't know. My office like wouldn't, didn't really allow it in my first office. So you just couldn't have it. You also like can't really, again, it depends, be a big public figure because in a way you're seen as like an extension of your, your member and it's all very personally driven. So you're like, you could say something, you know, or get canceled or say something bad. And then it's like, you know,
00:41:14
Speaker
Congressman Johnson staffer said this, like that could be a headline, right? So we really weren't allowed to post publicly or have a TikTok. So that's why I didn't really have it till after. And then I also think people are hesitant to post because it is still like, you know, backfilled rooms, kind of secretive. There is like this like old voice club to it. So I think that's why you don't see a lot of Hill staffers on TikTok, which is why I was like, I want to do it because I want more people to get involved and like work in Congress because I think it's important, you know?
Balancing Personal Life and Politics
00:41:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:44
Speaker
Like I said, how would you even know how to get into this state? Like you have to do an internship, start looking for opportunities in your junior, senior year. Exactly. Yeah. Like it is like a hard job to just kind of jump into if you have no background, which means like we're leaving out these huge populations of the country. And then like our bills aren't going to be as good. Our government's not going to be as good. Like I don't want our government to just be run by one type of person. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:13
Speaker
Oh, one other thing I'll just say is it's such an important thing that you guys are working on. And it just, obviously it sucks that you guys aren't getting compensated. And so I really wanted to have this conversation with you because we want to be honest, right? That's a great opportunity. We want to encourage more bright young minds who are passionate to go into the industry, but also be realistic. Like this is the sacrifices you're making.
00:42:39
Speaker
How do you go about it? Maybe you can transition for a nonprofit and down the road you can transition and then maybe start investing. But yeah, just like, thanks for your service. Thank you. You're so sweet. I appreciate that. Yeah. I think it's like this really interesting, specifically American phenomenon where we have to like ignore our personal lives at work. I mean, I can't really like bring them into the office, like to the point of
00:43:09
Speaker
not being able to have social media. I also felt like I was never really able to like talk about dating or like anything extracurricular at work, especially because I was a woman. And then I think it kind of seeped into my attitudes towards dating where I like
00:43:30
Speaker
When I was in the trenches, working like 80, 100 hour weeks, I, number one, did not have time to date. And I also, when I was going on dates, I felt like I made my job my entire personality. And it was almost like, oh, you're not even important to me because my job is number one, and my friends are number two, and you'd maybe be number three. Right. 100%. Do you feel like that also happens in politics because you guys are working so much?
00:43:58
Speaker
Oh yeah, I mean, especially as legislative director, I would be at work most nights till like nine or 10 o'clock. I've definitely been at work until 4am. Like if Congress is voting, people don't realize this. The staff is there too. We're sitting our ass right there. I also want this to be over. They're like, oh, they're voting so late.
00:44:14
Speaker
whatever. It's like the staff is also there. Like, so yeah, I that was a big reason I left in addition to the pay is like, it had become my whole personality. And it's nice to hear that this happens in other industries. Is this a DC thing? Like, because all my friends worked in politics, it's the news and like, my job was to be informed, right? So it's not like I could step away from it, you know? And I don't think
00:44:36
Speaker
And I think that's what's good about this younger generation too is like, I don't think my job should be my life. I don't even think it should be the biggest part. I think you should like your job. I think you should have like a healthy obsession with it. But like, if you put just like dating, if you put all your eggs into one basket, you're going to be disappointed, right? Like I think like you have to have a full life and other aspects. Like I was like turning 29. I had no time to date. I was like,
00:45:03
Speaker
And I have people I looked up to in Congress because I admired their work, but when I thought about their social lives, I mean, they, you know, were in their like late thirties, which is, and like single, no kids, which is like fabulous, but they definitely didn't want that to be their life. Like that's fabulous if that's your choice, but like, because there's some time, like this job had become your life.
Dating Culture in DC and NYC
00:45:24
Speaker
And then one day you wake up and you're like, this job will not keep me warm at night. Also like jobs are fleeting, you know? So I just felt like,
00:45:33
Speaker
I need to take a step back because I think when you make one thing, you're everything. I think that's super dangerous, you know? And it sounds like maybe it's the same in kind of y'all's industry too. Yeah. Yeah. And also like I did not enjoy dating in New York. Um, I don't know if you're having a better. Okay. I will say like compared to DC, I think every city is like my city is the worst for dating.
00:45:55
Speaker
But like DC dating, I could talk about for 100 years. Here's what DC dating is. It's either they're gay, that's every man and every hot guy in DC is gay. So that's eliminating many men or they work for like true, for me, this would be a no go, but they work for like truly a crazy person on the other side. Like if that's your job, we're not going to really have much in common, right? Like if you're like DC is 97% liberal.
00:46:21
Speaker
Like if you're one of those 3%, like chaos. So that's that. Or one of my friends has dated you. It is such a small town. There is no one else. Either I've dated you, one of my friends has dated you, or you're gay, or you're like a truly a crazy person. There is nobody else. Like the apps had like one person on it. That's why I feel like New York, I mean, I don't know the quality. I've only been here like eight months, but like there's so many men. There's just like a plethora and I don't know any of them. And none of my friends,
00:46:48
Speaker
Half hooked up with them, like it's amazing. Wow. Wow. New York is massive. Yeah. Yeah. Is dating in Miami better? Well, I'm engaged now, so it has gone significantly better for me. OK. Successful. Way better. And I grew up in New York, so yeah, way better Miami. Oh, are you in New York? I'm in New York. Yeah, I feel like what you say makes it sound almost like a college campus type of thing.
00:47:17
Speaker
dating profile. I'm from Miami and I live in New York now. And to your point, each city has their own situation where I think in New York, there's so many impressive people that is, oh, no one's really ready to settle down until they're much older. And, you know, there's always someone who has a better title, you know, more attractive. There's almost what's it called paralysis of choice.
00:47:47
Speaker
right? Because there's so many options. It's like that Sex in the City. The taxicab when someone's taxicab is on. I'll caveat that when a guy's line is like when a guy's taxicab is on, when he's writing, he's just gonna pick up the next person. And they're gonna get together. I do think that women also have taxicab lights on too. Like when they're ready to find someone, you just have to find taxicab
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah, they're both open at the same time. No, I think that's the problem with dating is like, you try to force a taxi cab to be ready. And they're like, no, we're not taking customers right now. And you're like, but I am. That's like the big issue. You were saying that when in finance, I think it's when a guy hits VP, then he's like, all right, now I'm going to propose to my girlfriend. Now I'm going to actually look for my wife, but you got to get to that level.
00:48:41
Speaker
In cities like DC and New York, you're so career-oriented. That's the book. If I need to get to this all, I need to be settled financially, career-wise, where I want to be before I even start thinking about it. Maybe that's a similarity. Miami, I haven't spent enough time in. Yeah, I do think the men in DC, also, their job is also their life, right? So for both of them, until 10 o'clock at night,
00:49:07
Speaker
When are we going on dates? You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's like, in banking, one of the misconceptions of dating, sometimes finance guys, is that it sounds all glamorous. It's like, oh, I have to go back to the office at 10pm to turn these comments because your job is a priority. And you and I were in similar boats where, yeah, job comes number one. I'm sorry. I need a hustle right now. And you have these people who have this
00:49:33
Speaker
What I do like about New York is I feel a little bit anonymous here. DC is definitely, to me, kind of a small town. You could not walk down the street in DC without seeing someone you know. You could not hide in that town. You could not cheat. We will find out. It is such a small town, and it really is.
00:49:52
Speaker
a college campus in that like the gossip is rife and like dating on Capitol Hill is like everybody will know your
Personal Fulfillment and Volunteering
00:49:59
Speaker
business like so that and that's tough because that's like half the town you work with them so it's like but you don't want to date people you work with so it's like yeah it's nice in New York I'm like I don't really work with anyone here you know yeah yeah that's awesome I have I know we're coming up on a time but I have one question for you is
00:50:19
Speaker
So maybe the reverse of what you experienced where you're doing something you care about, but you're not making the money. I think a lot of us are in the flip where we are, maybe we're making some money, but we're not getting that meaning, that passion that the, the young college version of ourselves wanted. How do you, do you have any recommendations of things to like,
00:50:43
Speaker
tap into that, whether that be volunteering or things that you found that if it's not your job, some other part to fulfill.
00:50:50
Speaker
Yeah. No, I actually, I feel like I get this question a lot from my friend to work in marketing or finance or whatever. And they, you know, they make way more money than I do and they have happy full lives, but they're like, I feel like I'm missing like this, like reason to get up in the morning, this like mission driven thing that like feels like I'm doing some good. Like everybody needs that in some capacity and it like doesn't need to be your job. I think that's something I've realized too. Like it could be maybe you volunteer for a campaign during election season.
00:51:18
Speaker
maybe you like volunteer. I have some friends who like in New York City volunteer at like local community gardens, just like help with gardening. It doesn't have to be even political, right? Like you can do a million things and like people always need free labor. I think like volunteer your money, your time, whatever it is, or even just like being a good advocate, ally, whatever. I think that can be part of it. Like, you know, going to events that support
00:51:46
Speaker
you know, maybe like an author who wrote like a book about like racism in our country and like, you know, supporting, like using your wallet to speak to your value in that way. Like you can do a million different things.
00:52:01
Speaker
I think doing a campaign is a huge one. Campaigns always need help. You could do it from your house. I have friends who've done phone banking parties. Basically, you just work with a campaign of someone you agree with and love and want to help out. And you just call people in their district, be like, are you registered? Would you vote for so-and-so? Or they have postcard ones. You can do a million different things and make them fun.
00:52:26
Speaker
and interesting and not boring and feel like your life is fulfilled. I think it's tough because you spend most of your week at work, you know? So I don't know. I mean, I'm interested. I feel like my, it's hard because my entire career besides like my one year at PwC has been really mission driven. And so I've never actually had to seek out those things.
00:52:48
Speaker
But I wonder for you guys if there's anything that you've sought out that's been effective or if you're still on the hunt for that thing that kind of gets you up in the morning a little bit. Honestly, I think that was one of the main reasons that I quit. I just felt like I was optimistic about investing that I would be able to kind of push things forward that I believed in.
00:53:13
Speaker
But the thing with technology investing, it's also esoteric that at the end of the day, none of that stuff is pushing the needle forward for anything that we as humans have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. I didn't feel like I was making anyone's life better at the end of the day, except for that of our investors who are already millionaires in their own right. I was like, okay, I don't really care about this.
00:53:40
Speaker
And he got to the point where I would talk to my other coworkers about it who were all men. And I would be like, what are you guys doing about this whole in yourself? And they would either say one of two things. One, what are you talking about? Two, they would donate money. They would support children abroad. Or they would get involved with some kind of charity.
00:54:03
Speaker
I think like I dealt with it by one getting a cat when I was going through my first quarter life crisis. I was like, I'm just going to like baby something. And to like post quitting, I've done a way better job about like nurturing my relationships and my friendships in a way that I was never able to do before because I was so burned out. Yeah. But I still do feel like something is missing and I don't really know
00:54:34
Speaker
what to pursue next, but I think it will be something volunteer-oriented. I feel like you touched on a good point. This is what life is about, right? You spend your whole life trying to figure out what is the meaning of life. You don't need to have it figured out at 26 or whatever. Maybe it's relationships. Maybe when you look back on your life, it's going to be the relationships you made. Maybe it's a huge accomplishment
00:54:59
Speaker
at work, maybe it's like doing things that are creative, like starting a podcast or whatever, like, and it could be a million things at once. I think people think they need to have like, be able to put their life's meaning into like a one sentence. And it's like, that's impossible. That's like never gonna happen. I think that's okay. Yeah, I think, yeah, exactly. Part of it is starting this podcast because we want more women to feel empowered to talk about both money and ambition.
Evolving Life's Meaning
00:55:27
Speaker
And I think women also
00:55:29
Speaker
care, as a generalization, to care a little bit more and don't just want to make as much money as possible. And we're more complex creatures where we care about our relationships, we care about our social life, it's okay to want glamorous lives as well. And then finding that balance and showing that you can do that manifest in many ways, you know, you're a wonderful example of that as well. And so it's not just the podcast, it's like a variety of different little things. And I think that's why people
00:55:59
Speaker
experience core life crises because they're like, well, I thought my life was going to look like this. I thought I'd be a Senator or doing something like this. And you have to come to the realization that most people's jobs aren't going to see that if they have that hunger, you know.
Quarter-life Crises and Job Expectations
00:56:15
Speaker
Exactly. And I think like it could look different throughout your life. I think that's why a lot of people have like quarter life crisis and then like midlife crisis, you know, because it changes, you know? And that's why I think it's good to not put all your effort into just your job or just a relationship or just anything and have many different interests, you know?
Fashion Perceptions and Closing Remarks
00:56:34
Speaker
Totally. I have one final question that we ask all of our guests. Oh, okay. What's your favorite purchase? My favorite purchase?
00:56:46
Speaker
I think honestly this is I feel gonna be annoying because it is hard to get but by far my most complimented item across every time I bring this bag out people stop me on the street is the dark olive medium tell far bag. It's like a New York City brand. I'm sure you guys know it and it's a card to get them. I like that it's like
00:57:07
Speaker
I love the ethos of the brand. I loved how far I think like he's so cool. Like the whole thing is so interesting and awesome. And I love that he's created a brand where the exclusivity doesn't leave people out because of money. It's more just like dropping the colors, which is like kind of fun and cool. So love that bag. I think it goes with everything. I feel like a good work bag. Like, I don't know, it just makes you feel like, you know, a boss bitch. So I love that bag. I wanted to get that bag, but I had to go to like secondhand and like got lost. Not that specific color, but
00:57:36
Speaker
Um, yeah, you have a really funny, um, TikTok about, you know, telling someone. Yeah. Um, people got so fired up about that one. They're like, I think I said something like, like the Marc Jacobs tote bag, like that and like a bright color to me is like a little bit Republican. I would agree. Yeah. And like, it's just giving Republican to me. People were like, they're like,
00:58:02
Speaker
I like, or like the, and like, I love this bag. I used to like covet this bag. The Louis Vuitton Neverfull, a little bit Republican, to me, you know? But like the Longchamp, I think is like pretty bipartisan. I don't know. It's all just like a game, but it is funny. People take their bags very seriously. People are like, how dare you insult my purse? I'm like, yeah.
00:58:22
Speaker
Yeah. Lee, did you want to sign us off? Yeah. Well, so for people that want to follow you, I think one of the best places to follow you is on TikTok at Beverly J Hart. Are there any other platforms that you want us to shout out? I think all my platforms are at Beverly J Hart. So I feel like if you type that in anywhere, I will appear. So that's easy. Easy enough. Put that in the show notes.
00:58:46
Speaker
Thank you so much for coming on. You're so impressive. You guys are so impressive. I love that you're doing this. I feel like these conversations are more important than you realize, you know? We hope so, eventually, one day. Perfect. Well, thank you, guys. And we should definitely stay in touch. And I can't wait to see you.