Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Confessions of a Founder, Model and Designer - Balancing Hustle with Feminine Energy
121 Plays1 year ago
On this episode, Eleanor and LD chat with *renaisance woman* Joyce Chiu. Joyce joins us to talk about her post-natal wellness startup, NUEMA and the trials and tribulations of being a serial entrepreneur, where she gets her motivation from, and her lessons from living many lives in e-comm, fashion, tech startups, and now wellness.
You can follow Joyce on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/cchiu888/ or on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/joyceechiu/
You can find us on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram at:
https://www.youtube.com/@PrettyInvestedMedia
https://www.tiktok.com/@prettyinvestedmedia
https://www.instagram.com/prettyinvestedmedia
Pretty Invested Media and this related information does not constitute professional or financial advice of any kind (including business, employment, investment advisory, accounting, tax, and/or legal advice). Advice from a suitably qualified professional should always be sought in relation to any particular matter or circumstance.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Pretty Invested'
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Pretty Invested. I'm Eleanor and this is LB. Presented by your favorite ex-finance bros. We talk about the money things you actually care about.
00:00:12
Speaker
Hi, everyone.
Joyce's Entrepreneurial Journey
00:00:13
Speaker
We're super excited to welcome my lovely friend Joyce on this episode of Pretty Invested. So I think the best way to describe Joyce is as a Renaissance woman and serial entrepreneur, having dipped her toes in e-commerce, startups, fashion, and now wellness. Joyce is now the founder of Tutentio and Nuemma. And we wanted to invite her on to tell the story about how she was able to build not just one, but several successful businesses. So welcome, Joyce.
00:00:40
Speaker
Thanks for having me. Where are you calling in from? I'm currently in Barbados. We're here for a conference. Just hanging out right now. So Joyce and I met a while ago in Miami, and I thought in terms of the ideals of pre-invested, you very much so represent
00:01:01
Speaker
you know, not only having had several successful businesses, but also being very well-rounded and, you know, in charge of your own coin. So, yes. Why don't I just maybe kick it off to you and start from the beginning. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how it was like growing up with your family and money and business and entrepreneurship?
00:01:25
Speaker
Yes, of course.
Joyce's Early Ventures and Family Background
00:01:27
Speaker
So I was born in Hong Kong. We moved here when I was five or six. My family has always been in the F&B business. It's a pretty traditional Chinese restauranteer family story. So my parents were always entrepreneurs. And I guess that's where I learned my hustle from, right? They all busted.
00:01:47
Speaker
for maybe like 14 hour days every day seven days a week no days off so i think my first exposure to money was always save and be super frugal and that sculpted how i guess i saw my first how i viewed money initially when i was younger
00:02:08
Speaker
But once we got into like elementary school, middle school, we would always take these trips to New York. And there was a huge canal string market, which I guess still exists today, but it's not as bustling as back then. And my brother and I, we would actually buy stuff for like a dollar and go back to school and slip it for $5. So it started pretty early for us. And I just always loved flipping things.
00:02:36
Speaker
So that was kind of the beginning of my entrepreneur story. Yeah, and your parents were okay with you guys doing that? Yeah, they were like, oh, our kids are kind of smart. Because we were pretty young. My brother was maybe in second or third grade, and I was in fifth or sixth grade. And we would both take separate things to school and then come back home and track how much profit we made. And my parents are like, what? What would you do with the money?
00:03:07
Speaker
Honestly, buy snacks, books. School fairs were a big deal for me. So I think primarily that and then we would give it to our parents as well. Which is very traditional Chinese kid. So that was the first thing and I think the frugal mentality
00:03:31
Speaker
It's very interesting because I think a lot of people, if you grow up with that mindset, it sticks with you, but I am always contrarian. So I'm like, I was always pushing back against the norms. So I was a little splurge queen when I was able to get my first bit of money. And I think I needed to do that. So now I'm a bit more conscious with my spending because when you swing all the way to frugalness,
00:04:00
Speaker
not sustainable for the long term. I don't think it's enjoyable to count every penny, right? So finding that balance has been the story of my life thus far.
Teenage Years: Wholesaling and Financial Independence
00:04:16
Speaker
You were a teenager when you started your own like real business, right? Like were you in middle school or high school?
00:04:27
Speaker
I think it started early. It was maybe sophomore year. I started, I dipped my toes into wholesaling and then drop shipping. And I was working full time. Yeah, I was working full time at my parents' place right after school. And then we'd work until 10 o'clock. So from three o'clock to 10 o'clock, I'd be at the restaurant working full time. And then 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock, so filling orders at home.
00:04:53
Speaker
And I would always fall asleep in class. It's just like, it's just a lot, but I was making good money. I think I had saved up quite a bit. This was when Pinterest first started. Pinterest, Whenello, Tumblr, and I got onto the social media game pretty early and got exposed to affiliate links, just kind of posting on Tumblr with our shop.
00:05:20
Speaker
items. So I think it kind of took off and then once you kind of have a big blogger repost you, things kind of just start moving that way. So I was doing that and then I got into thrift, thrift flipping. And that was so good. And I think after I moved on from the wholesale,
00:05:39
Speaker
The thrift like the thrifting was amazing because we had a anthropology revolve warehouse near us so we'd go in I'd spend my afternoons when I have like an hour or two away from the store and Just hunt it was tedious, but so worth it like I think we would get things for $10, but they're still on sale for $200 so I utilize Poshmark
00:06:05
Speaker
And this is when I was getting ready to move to New York. So this is how I made money for my New York move. My parents didn't support me through college. So I kind of had to prepare. Like if I was making the decision to leave my home, this was one of the big things I was preparing for. The first two years of college they paid for because I was working full time at the restaurant. So I was like, I can't do this anymore.
00:06:33
Speaker
So I took on the thrifting full time to save up. And then I would also homeschool. I was a hustler. So I was one schooling. I was nannying. I was thrifting. I was working at my parents' place. But we didn't earn any money from our parents, right? That's just kind of how the family working dynamic goes. So with the thrifting I think I made the most, I saved up about like $15,000 to $20,000.
00:07:01
Speaker
Which is nothing actually when you're like preparing for a big move to New York for school and living expenses and things like that. They require so much for like a rental down payment. Yes. And like sweet tea deposit. Exactly. So I was, I hounded my parents and I was like, okay, we need to find a relative who's willing to rent out a room like for cheek.
00:07:28
Speaker
So that was beneficial for my first year, two years in New York. I was paying maybe like $600 for the room. And I liked the neighborhood. It was in Forest Hills. So when I was getting acclimated, I think I didn't go out much because I was just primarily focused on school and work.
Balancing Scarcity and Intrinsic Motivation
00:07:48
Speaker
So no partying ever, just hustling. So that's kind of how
00:07:55
Speaker
the, I guess, teenage years, the entrepreneurial spirit kind of came. Yeah. But it feels like so long ago. That's incredible because I feel like right now the idea of dropshipping, affiliate links are super popular, but you were doing this back when you were in middle school, high school, and already way ahead of the curve.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah, I wish I had known how to scale, but that was what I got stuck on. Like the orders were coming in too quickly and as a student, I'm like not aware. I just didn't have the tools that a lot of people have, right?
00:08:37
Speaker
like immigrants, they don't speak English very well, they don't have the education that most parents do with people who are in business. And I think if I had learned how to scale the business and have a warehouse and kind of hire on a team, that would have been totally transformational, but things happen the way it's supposed to happen. And yeah. Yeah. I'm so curious, how did you even learn about like, drop shipping, thrusting,
00:09:06
Speaker
I don't know. I think I was just doing some research. I was an internet kid for sure. So flew thing everywhere. And I found Alibaba very early on.
00:09:18
Speaker
But finding the right manufacturers are key. So that was something I struggled with because the quality was inconsistent. And that was one big thing. And then you also don't want to have too much stock. So then the logistics, it was just too much. So I think with school going on and my parents and everyone has family struggles, so sometimes you just get way too overwhelmed.
00:09:43
Speaker
So I just let it go and I was like, you know, I can definitely find another way to make money because this is a little bit too stressful. So that's how I kind of shifted my energy into something else. That's like so crazy to me. Cause like, I think most kids are learning geometry at that age and you're like thinking about like supply mechanisms and like finding balance of like your inventory versus your sales and your margins and like,
00:10:12
Speaker
Yeah, really complicated algebra problem. But I, so I relate to a lot of your story in that my parents were essentially like, if you want to go away to school, like you have to fund it yourself. And I spent all of my high school years being like, okay, how do I get a scholarship? How do I get a scholarship? How do I get this money? How do I get away? And
00:10:37
Speaker
the spectrum of scarcity mindset to, okay, you can buy basically all the things that you reasonably want is very wide. I also found it hard to shift from a fear-based motivation to an intrinsic motivation.
00:10:59
Speaker
Does any of that resonate with
Survival Mindset and Resource Utilization
00:11:01
Speaker
you? Or were you like, no, there was always a fire within me and I was always intrinsically motivated? I think both, right? Because perhaps my family relationship was never too great. So instead of it being fear-based, I think it was survival instinct. Like if I need to be out of here, how can I do it? And I know I can. That's something within me that has never changed, which is if I put my mind to something I know I can do it,
00:11:30
Speaker
And it's like, I think people have this mindset of, like they won't do certain jobs because it's beneath them. I feel like I've never had that mindset, right? I'm like, if I need a dollar, I will bust my ass to get that dollar. So it doesn't matter if I'm like a janitor or whatever, right? But it wouldn't come to that because I like to educate myself and find different opportunities. So if that's not what I want to do, then I won't do it. And I don't think,
00:12:01
Speaker
I don't know, it was just always that mindset. I think that got me into all of these different paths and things that wouldn't be.
00:12:11
Speaker
normally someone's idea of like a career path I'm like why not just test it and see if it fits and it flows so that's been what it is with the fear-based mindset I don't know if you guys feel this but when you grow up with such a deeply rooted scarcity mindset when you have it's also very hard to adjust to this music
00:12:34
Speaker
Like you have it. How do you take yourself out of them? Fear, decision making process, right? You're like, like,
00:12:44
Speaker
I think I struggle the most with like, I can hustle the most when I'm struggling because there's nothing there to support me. And that's been my biggest struggle right now is because now I have resources and I have friends, but I can't seem to utilize it well, right? Because I'm like, I'm a better hustler when I'm fighting.
00:13:06
Speaker
And what my friends are teaching me is that, no, now that you have, you kind of have to adjust to use what's provided for you so you can maximize, but I'm still working on that. It's so hard. No, I relate a lot. I don't know if you've heard of Leo Skeppi's podcast, but he, he basically gives tough love on motivation and he's like,
00:13:36
Speaker
If you think that you're having a hard time getting motivated, then just put yourself in an impossible situation and you'll have all the reasons that you need pushing you towards like whatever it is that you're trying to achieve. I feel that now is like someone who's trying to run their own business or I'm like, you know, like I'm making, I'm like doing okay, but I'm not doing amazing. And it's really hard to,
00:14:04
Speaker
It touches on the scalability point that you mentioned earlier, where now it's not so much a logistical thing, but it's a mindset thing. Yeah. Do you feel like there's relevant tidbits that you've gotten as either an entrepreneur in general or as a female entrepreneur that help you with mindset?
Reframing Motivation and Success
00:14:28
Speaker
Or they could also just be hustle hacks and pitch hacks?
00:14:34
Speaker
I think I listened to a video recently where it really stuck with me. It was like, laziness is a privilege. And that just hit. And I was like, oh, wow. It is. Because when I was fighting to get out of my family situation, I was so driven. I was like, I have nothing to lose. I need to go. Or else I'm just going to be stuck. And it was really survival.
00:15:04
Speaker
And I think that goes across the board for like majority of our working class, right? You do not have the time or the privilege to be lazy, to not think about the next steps. And time is our biggest asset. So that is I think something that I'm taking as my biggest driver now because I'm like,
00:15:26
Speaker
I want to feel privileged in this way, right? Like I want to feel like I'm constantly driving to do better because I need to. Yeah, that's currently my biggest thing and I heard that maybe a couple months ago on a podcast, but yeah.
00:15:42
Speaker
I think it's a good reframing when sometimes you don't come from a place of privilege or grew up with a trust fund always there. You don't have to be afraid of failure in the same way because everything is, if you start at a ground level, you can always just build up and you're not afraid to try these new things or like
00:16:06
Speaker
I'm going to individually wrap all of these orders versus if you already have thousands, millions in the bank, then you're not going to go the extra effort to do this marginal ability to get more money because it's honestly not worth it for you if you calculate it.
00:16:31
Speaker
You don't have anything to lose. And when you're motivated from that perspective, I think there's almost no excuse for you not to get started. Because I think someone says, oh, I don't have a trust fund. I don't have friends and family who can help me kickstart my project that I want to do. You're a perfect example.
00:16:54
Speaker
You built it over time. You don't need to come from a very specific background. And then now you do have this community who wants to support you, wants to see you succeed. And it's actually the verse where it's like, Oh, I don't know. I should tap into it. Or, you know, you feel guilty in some way. So I think it's just an encouraging thing to be like, actually, sometimes if you do start from.
00:17:15
Speaker
Not necessarily nothing, but you don't have all these privileges. It's something that can drive you into fire, which I think is very much the case for you.
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I think we were very privileged. We moved across like up and down the East Coast for majority of my life and we would move every two to three years. And I think the privilege was to see like different socioeconomic like cities, right? We lived in the projects for a little bit and
00:17:47
Speaker
And then we moved to the south in a pretty predominant area. And I think just the exposure to the culture, to the people, the children, and the parents, it was just so interesting to see everyone's mindsets. And as a kid, I was able to internalize that. And it was very special. And the community I felt closest to
00:18:06
Speaker
was the ones that were in the projects because you were struggling together right and everyone looked out for each other and there is a certain guilt when certain people make it out of the projects or like super low income because they're like is this not good enough for you um so i think it's
00:18:28
Speaker
I liked it. Most people are like, oh, trust my babies. But actually, you don't get to see that much of the world. And I feel very blessed to have seen different levels of the rise, right? Because once you reach that point, it's like, OK, I've seen it. I have experienced it. I know which one I connect to.
Inspiration and Personal Growth
00:18:49
Speaker
And people are just people, no matter what.
00:18:52
Speaker
amount you have you bank. So that's something that I think I hold very closely even as I start making money and start building my business are still the center. So I know you decently well Joyce and we were going through the questions and there was one question that I was like I actually don't know how Joyce would answer that and it's who are your heroes like is there someone or certain people or people even with your community that you looked up to
00:19:18
Speaker
I try not to have heroes. I try not to idolize anyone. I think I can be inspired, but I never really put people on the pedestal. And that keeps me from going towards the wrong things. Because when you idolize someone, I feel like your entire energy shifts into a different
00:19:39
Speaker
It's a different, you wanna become like them, but that shouldn't be your goal. It's like, how do you find your path, your own path that's inspired by the tidbits of other people's lives? Not to be like somebody, but my recent exposures within my life experiences, I've been leaning towards more of the Robert Greene mindset, which I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with him. He is the 48 laws of power guy and talks about how
00:20:08
Speaker
people manipulate others in their nature, right? And it's just the game of life. And basically, even if you don't want to use this tool, it's great to know when it's being used on yourself. And I wish I would have found him a lot earlier in my life, because I think naturally as a person, I
00:20:30
Speaker
I am too kind and a bit naive because of how I see the world, right? I wish it's a more wholesome, beautiful, kinder place, but that's just me projecting my wants. And reality is not like that. So especially when you're getting into business, when you're meeting people at different levels,
00:20:51
Speaker
they are all playing the game. So I've been reading his stuff and it's been really great. And just having that I think as a tool has been substantial in decision making and navigating my own personal life.
00:21:07
Speaker
So yeah, but I really resonate with that I feel like similarly, you know want to be very positive and kind and I think knowing that is really powerful because Before it would happen is someone I would realize was not in the same
00:21:23
Speaker
mindset or had the best of intentions that would get really hurt by it or was surprised. But I think you can read books that empower you to have that information be like, okay, I can still have this.
00:21:38
Speaker
optimistic view of the world, but it's still good to know things so that when it does happen, you're not caught as up guard or thrown off and then reevaluating how you view the world. So I think that's a positive way.
00:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think just as we go through lives, we're just collecting more tools, right? It's like, oh, how do we shape ourselves into, like we're just writing our own story. So what do you want your character to build? Do you want to repeat the same chapters and write the same thing over and over again? Because that's what happens, right?
00:22:15
Speaker
And I am a big fan of change. I think that's also something that's very different about me versus a lot of the people I meet in my life. I love change. And maybe it's because we moved so much when we were younger. But change is exciting. And I think change is necessary. And we've gotten so far as humankind because change happens daily. So
00:22:40
Speaker
I think that's also another big driver for me bouncing around into different industries, about testing and changing up. I feel like you've lived a lot of lives and we haven't even gotten to the second half of your story. I'll dig into that in a bit, but I think one of the hardest things of
00:23:07
Speaker
moving through those lives so quickly and like starting at a very like difficult place in life.
00:23:15
Speaker
or a place of want to getting to a place of abundance. It's very hard to maintain the same values that you had in the early stages of life or it's almost like you were in survival mode and you didn't even have time to think about your values. So how do you go about like shaping those things or like exploring yourself for the first time because for the first time you have time to explore yourself.
00:23:42
Speaker
That's a great question. I think my values have always been very strong. I'm very...
00:23:50
Speaker
I don't know, family oriented, even though the relationship wasn't great. I am driven by kindness. I am driven by love. I'm driven by happiness. And I don't chase abundance in the form of money, right? Like I chase peace. I chase success in the form of like, I can do what I want with my time. And that's what I want. That's what money means to me.
00:24:15
Speaker
Which is one of your questions. I want to be able to obtain a level of wealth where I can just choose to do whatever with it, whether it's spend time on a farm with my family or like just learn new skills. That is what I'm seeking. I'm not seeking it for like
00:24:34
Speaker
I don't know, to buy the next bag, right? Like it's maybe because it's been there done that,
Redefining Success and Career Changes
00:24:41
Speaker
right? When you come from the scarcity mindset, your first thing that you think of, especially from the Chinese community, because they're so driven by designer goods. So the first thing when you think of when you're like success, it's always designer goods. You buy a certain thing you want, but that is just
00:25:00
Speaker
it's just an illusion, right? Because it doesn't do anything for you. And sometimes I'm like, I question when I buy certain things, I'm like, how much do we need to buy before we reach that point of clarity? Like this serves nothing, right? Like it looks good, maybe a good investment piece, but
00:25:21
Speaker
I don't know. So I do have those moments, but I worked in fashion, so I appreciate nice things. And I think that's something I struggle with. The side of me that is more down to earth and can just wear like shorts and a t-shirt and be on a farm in Georgia, and then the city girl version of myself where it's like glam, fashionable, chic, right? So,
00:25:49
Speaker
Yeah, the balance is key. I don't shame myself for buying nice things, but understanding and holding close that it's not what success is to myself. That has kind of, I don't know, maintained my sanity. Yeah. Swallowed up, right? Like everyone always buys stuff. You're always comparing if you're not conscious about it. I think that touches on
00:26:17
Speaker
your point earlier of not really wanting heroes, because you don't want to be in a consumptive headspace. You want to be more generative and tapping into source. So we stopped off at College Chapter, Ecom, doing a bunch of gigs. What led College Choice to Barbados and what's in between?
00:26:41
Speaker
When I moved to New York, I started working at F&B as an assistant manager, and I was really young. I was like 20 years old, and you're making pretty decent money for a well-run New York restaurant. So I had to do online classes because I was just like, I need a hustle. I need to make this money.
00:27:02
Speaker
That's how I got through the first year. And I was also working for a high network family as their nanny, making good money. So I think my agent had tried to convince me. She's like, I really feel like you should go and become a career nanny because you're great with kids. They love you. The parents love that you speak two languages or multiple languages. But I loved kids. I loved childhood development. And that was definitely a path I was kind of considering.
00:27:32
Speaker
But my boyfriend at the time, that's a terrible idea. There's no growth. You're always going to be working for another family. You're not going to learn anything professionally, right?
00:27:46
Speaker
So I am very glad he said that to me. I think at the time I was like, you know nothing because they were offering me $250,000 to work with them full time. And I was 20, 20 or 21. Wow. Yeah, and they're a Russian-Chinese based family with one kid. So it's like, you would have to travel with us, live with us, but we love you. I was just like, okay, I guess not.
00:28:15
Speaker
I was so enveloped in my relationship and I really valued what my boyfriend at the time, like, you know, his advice. So I ended up not doing that. He convinced me to quit my full-time F&B job at the restaurant. And I think that's where I messed up because you should never, ever depend on a man, ever. And I think that was my first, I wouldn't call it mistake, but
00:28:44
Speaker
maybe my night, taking the lead, right? Because you're still young and you're like, oh, like this person wants to take care of me. I'm in school. But actually I could provide for myself the whole time and I was happy. I was able to do whatever I wanted. I didn't party so I was saving. And
00:29:03
Speaker
So after that, I think I just primarily focused on school and he wanted me to travel with him and that was great because I got to see things but not great because now I'm dependent financially on a man. So I kind of got stuck there for two years because I felt like I couldn't leave the situation.
00:29:24
Speaker
I got into modeling at that time when I was working at the restaurant So I would go to the restaurant and then go shoot right after and then go home So at the beginning of my modeling career I was shooting five at least five times a day sometimes twice a day before work and then after work because I knew I wasn't familiar with the camera right and
00:29:48
Speaker
I was actually very camera shy early on, and I just needed to be comfortable. I put in a lot of hours, worked with a lot of unknown photographers. We traded our time for experience. And that's just something you have to do, right? Sometimes they were really bad, but sometimes they were really good.
00:30:07
Speaker
And that's how I actually built my current art community, which I love and I still keep in contact with, even though I've left. And once I broke up with the guy, I, what did I do? I took a little sabbatical, cause I was also shooting and then I went into tech after. So that's when my career kind of shifted. So I was doing tech and then I was modeling part time.
00:30:36
Speaker
It was a French AI company based in New York. It was an interesting year and a half, but like modeling had started taking off. So I decided to go full time and I quit and got a bunch of good gigs and then COVID hit. So that is, yeah, that's college post college.
00:31:00
Speaker
And then, yeah, during COVID, I decided to start the business for two times. Jump into the business. Yeah. So many thoughts on your trajectory and your path, like the nanny situation. Like I'm sure that was hard to say no to at the time. We had a question. So did you ever, you said you were reliant or not reliant, but you very much so had your partner supporting you.
00:31:28
Speaker
Did that impact your decision whether or not to stay with the person? What was that dynamic light? Absolutely. But men are smart. If they do this on purpose, I think, right? Because you're a 20-year-old, right? You're hustling for your dreams. You're hustling to finish school. But you also do want to see the world. But there is a fine balance, right? There's balance in everything. But I think he wanted me to be very dependent on him because then you can control the relationship.
00:31:58
Speaker
And he knew my family situation was not great. So when you know that and these tidbits of information, I think it's easily sculpted into...
00:32:09
Speaker
Like, for example, if he spread the 48 balls of power, this is exactly what it would be like, right? But I wasn't able to recognize any of the patterns. So yeah, the dependency definitely took a big toll on me. I felt like I couldn't do what I wanted. Even when we traveled, I feel like it was always on his itinerary and not what I wanted to do. It was my first relationship ever.
00:32:38
Speaker
I was in that hole deep. I was just like, I love this person. Had no idea what I was talking about, but I'm sure my family was like, what are you doing? But your parents, I think because they don't provide for you right at that stage, it's like, who are you to tell me what I'm doing? Is right or wrong? So I think I was speaking back. But
00:33:03
Speaker
The 250k is a lot of money for a 20-21 year old and you get to travel with them, you get to do whatever, stay in a beautiful home. I think the exposure to the ultra wealth in New York also changed my world, right? Because I was like, wow, I've never seen this level of wealth before. And the fact that these people live it and
00:33:31
Speaker
I mean, they're not always happy. I've seen a lot of things go down as a nanny. But, you know, it's... I was just like, wow, this actually exists. It's not just on TV. And... I don't know, okay? Like, this is attainable and I think I can do it. I don't know how, but I'll be able to do it.
00:33:52
Speaker
I think I got that introduction partially through finance, venture, and working in Miami, but people have very different lives, and I know when you don't grow up with that, I think that's why I asked maybe the heroes question, because it's sometimes hard to even picture what that is. You see it in movies, but to actually experience it, I think it's also, unfortunately, a whole type of
00:34:18
Speaker
culture and language that you kind of have to know and be able to speak, which creates additional boundaries and hurdles, which is kind of a, I don't know how I feel about it, but it's pretty, it's unfortunate. And I don't know really how to tear those down. I think people purposely build up, you know, ways to speak, signifiers. And it's hard if you don't have access to those people to know how to navigate those worlds. They'll give you the fish, but they'll never teach you how to fish.
00:34:48
Speaker
Because it always keeps you beneath them. Right. Yeah. I think that's something that I've noticed a lot within like the people that I've seen throughout the years, their form of helping versus like genuinely investing the time to help somebody is so different. Like, you know, you could be like, go read this book.
00:35:13
Speaker
I've heard that so many times. It's like I already read the book. Yeah, it's me. No, we can teach ourselves, but there's only so much that we know versus someone's lifelong experience within the space, right? But I think a lot of people's thing is, well, I made it here. If I'm a self-made person, you can do it. And you need to put in that work. And you need to hustle for that. That's something I hear a lot.
00:35:43
Speaker
from these extremely wealthy people that I now have around me, right? And it's like, well, you know, you were a hustler, you know how hard it was. People aren't asking for a handout, but more so,
00:36:00
Speaker
I don't know, more well-rounded tips to actually make an impact rather than like a canned response, right? That's something that I feel like happens so much that people just get canned things to make themselves seem smarter or like, I don't know if you guys have experience, but I experience this all the time. Yeah, it reminds me of this thing that's like, oh, if you ask for money, they'll give you advice.
00:36:26
Speaker
And it's true even in, you know, VC a lot of the time. Yeah. Like, because people are constantly in finance and to people are always asking for advice and you can give the things that you tell everyone like, here's how you break into investment banking, here's how you break into VC. And then put your real friends.
00:36:43
Speaker
Here's the name of the person that we should hire. Here's their resume. Talk to this managing director. And it's really hard to forge that unless you don't really have an in or say have some sort of signifies like I'm one of you. You should actually want to help me beyond the
00:37:00
Speaker
Here's what you need to do. Here are the questions that they'll ask. And sometimes that takes time. Maybe through reps and talk to enough people, you'll find one kind person who's willing to give you the real download. But it's definitely much easier when you're right in it and you're very familiar. For sure.
Introduction of Numa Clinic and Career Transitions
00:37:20
Speaker
Yeah, you're you're currently fundraising for Numa, right? Yeah, we're about to start. So we're actually building our founding team. So that's currently where I'm at. We're trying to bring on a chief medical officer right now. So that's
00:37:35
Speaker
Joyce, tell us what Numa is first. Oh, yes. So Numa is a pre and post needle health optimization clinic. We're hoping to be based out in Dubai. And yeah, we kind of started at a postpartum hotel, which is a huge thing in Asia, but they don't have it in the Middle East.
00:37:55
Speaker
but it was too capital intensive I think when I sat on it and we had already finished out our decks and like our financial models and I'm like I don't think this is the right climate to be raising 10 to 15 mil right so I kind of sat down and had to rethink on how to make it lower capital and I kind of just
00:38:17
Speaker
It's like, oh, the membership club works. I think both parents are able to come into the clinic there. Then you can have more people come in, whereas with a hotel, you have 20 rooms. There's a cap. You are also only serving women. So there was a lot of limitations to how many heads we could bring in. So I had to kind of just sit down and rethink that.
00:38:37
Speaker
So currently we're on our pivot but yeah it's been really exciting. I love working with women and I love learning about our bodies and if we choose to have kids this is all just information that you know would serve me in the future. It's been a different journey than like the fashion path and the tech path for sure.
00:38:58
Speaker
But you talked about this multiple times, like pivoting. Did you have any doubts? What made you so confident? What gave you the confidence to know, hey, fashion is my world. I know this environment. I know this ecosystem. But I'm going to go to these unturned waters and I have this great idea. What was the thought process for all of that? I think I was just feeling unfulfilled in fashion. And I had gone into the fashion side of things when sustainability was like,
00:39:30
Speaker
the big thing, right? But when you're in it, it's all a scam because guess what? You're still producing. Doesn't matter what you're doing with fabrics. It doesn't matter because actually it's all harming it. So they're just selling a new story to you as a consumer. Like we're being more eco-conscious. And I think as a consumer now, I'm just like, okay, like I can just consciously buy things, but I don't want to be sold a story anymore. And when I was working with
00:40:00
Speaker
We were working with a few really cool fabrics, and we were able to see innovative things that were coming out. There was one pineapple leather. It was really cool. But the constant churn of creativity, production of goods, people, and just the energy that is in the art and fashion space is not what I like to feel as a person, to be enveloped in it 24-7.
00:40:28
Speaker
I think that was why I pivoted and I needed to find something that would make me feel good as a person and make me feel like I'm contributing something bigger. And it came about because I was researching how big the industry was for
00:40:44
Speaker
the postnatal recovery centers in Asia. It's like a multi-billion dollar industry and it's just getting started. We had the first one open in New York, which is Borom Care. I don't know if you guys are familiar, but that inspired me actually because I was like, oh, I think we need to go a little bit more innovative because this model has been the same since the beginning of the China wave. So yeah, the pivot and the innovation I think is what led me to Numa.
00:41:15
Speaker
I had no idea that we even had them in the States. I've only become familiar with it because of videos on TikTok. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so restorative. Is the one in New York the only one that's in the States? Do you know? So far, yes. And then there is another one, I think, opening up States. But it's a fairly new concept to Western world, right? Most of the people
00:41:38
Speaker
Normally just hire the nannies and the midwives and doulas to come to the homes, the ones that are familiar with the practices. But only recently, like, I think Borum was the first one in the US that was at least publicized the way it was.
00:41:54
Speaker
So yeah, so like for our listeners who may not even be familiar with postnatal care because I feel like it's so it's niche here at least but essentially you like have the baby and then you go to like a mommy hotel where they like feed you your meals and they like take care of the baby with you and the only thing that you do is like sleep and bond with the baby. Am I explaining it correctly?
00:42:18
Speaker
Yes. Well, at the premier ones, you're also learning a lot. And I guess that's what we wanted to bring in a more holistic version of what is being served right now, because it goes even deeper than that, right? The women loses her identity as who she was before. And it's really hard when you're doing all of these new mommy tasks to actually rediscover yourself as this new person. So we're bringing in a more spiritual and movement-based
00:42:48
Speaker
clinic and just kind of getting you reconnected to this new form that you've taken. So I really, really connect with that at this point in my life, because it's just what I'm doing as well. Understanding ourselves deeper, mind, body, and soul. And now if people have a new baby, then you're another edition of yourself. So yeah.
00:43:10
Speaker
But it is so cool, the post-native space. It is, it's really cool. And it's like, I think a testament to how your mind works in that you feel that you have like a magnetic pull toward something and you just kind of figure out how to make it materialize.
Embracing Failure and Rapid Learning
00:43:29
Speaker
I feel like I get a lot of feedback from people when
00:43:33
Speaker
They tell me about wanting to make like a big career change or a big life change They're like, I just don't have the hard skills to break into XYZ, but you've gone from like ecom FNB fashion tech and now like physical spaces like you are a
00:43:55
Speaker
proof that you can just learn as you go. Do you have any advice for people that want to take like a sharp right turn in life and don't know how to get there?
00:44:06
Speaker
I think just go for it because what's the worst that can happen? They say, no, you fall, you fail. And I think failing is great. That's something that I think is more contrarian. It's like, I value failure as well, right? You can learn so much. And I don't know, there was...
00:44:28
Speaker
Quite a few fails, not all of them were successful. I mean, you made money, but they weren't the end all be all. So to some, it's failures. But with career changes, I think even when I'm speaking to my siblings, they're so afraid, right? And I'm like, just go for it. You have the hard skill sets, the people skills are super important. If you're an eager learner, if you are a self-learner, all of these contribute so much too.
00:44:56
Speaker
changing paths. If you're driven to do it, you will learn. I think how I see education and just self-learning, I really prioritize that. I would spend hours on YouTube learning like different things that I have known, especially with chat GPT. Now I'm like, any questions I have, I'm like, all right, educate me. Give you a lowdown on how this industry is and these details.
00:45:21
Speaker
the the thing is internet has everything right you can learn anything if you invest the hours and do it anything is possible for real i think a major takeaway is
00:45:36
Speaker
Don't be afraid of failure. And I might be quoting Peter Thiel on this, but his thing was like, feel fast. It's not like, oh, maybe it was okay. The goal isn't failure. You shouldn't be scared of failure. But like, figure it out. And having- Embrace. Embrace it. Like figure it out soon and having a biased action. Like getting meta, LD and I were thinking, when we think about pre-invested, we just dove in, you know, I think,
00:46:04
Speaker
Our first episode wasn't the best like the audio wasn't the greatest, but I think you have to learn by doing and if you're always waiting for something for you to be like an expert have 10 years experience what I've understood before starting your own gig, you're just putting off the net nothing that will but putting it off, and I think
00:46:26
Speaker
being first or being, you're one of the first people to do postnatal outside of the east. That's a huge advantage in this space. And if you wanted to like, let me learn about what it's like to open up postnatal in Dubai.
00:46:42
Speaker
You lose selection advantage. Yeah, it was first movers advantage so that you gotta capitalize on that, right? So even if you know nothing, you'll learn everything as you go. And I'm a firm believer in just the first thing is just put your feet on the ground and just go.
00:47:00
Speaker
and which I think it's great that you guys just started right and are just learning as you go and the same thing with like social media I think at the time it's like everyone's like oh it's so saturated it's too late and I'm like it's never too late just start and then it took off and and we started making a lot of money off of partnerships and stuff right so I'm like
00:47:23
Speaker
There's always room for you. You just have to make it for yourself. I have one final question. What's your favorite investment or purchase? This is actually the best one, but you're most favored. Probably my sleep pod. It's an eight-sleep machine. I'm a poor sleeper, and I think this was the best investment I've ever made. Quality sleep seriously changed your life.
00:47:53
Speaker
I think it's about three, three, three and a half. Okay. And I don't know, I use it every night. It tracks your heartbeat, how long you've slept, how many tosses and turns. If you smear it with your aura ring, it gives you really great, like
00:48:09
Speaker
information about health and just your sleep patterns, right? So that's something that I feel like I've been investing more in, which is my wellness. Well, Joyce, thank you so much for joining us. If people want to follow you, where should they follow you? Oh, God. I don't know. Okay. I have my art page on Instagram, but I don't really use that anymore. Probably find me more so on LinkedIn. Okay.
00:48:38
Speaker
Does that work? We can add it to the show notes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think that's better because the art version of me is very different than the professional wellness version of myself. So appreciate you coming on today and learning about your stories. It's fascinating. You have this innate
00:48:58
Speaker
fire, yet you're also very zen and spiritual, well-rounded in all ways. So thank you so much for joining us today. Nothing much. The questions were great. You guys were great hosts. So thank you. Yeah, and to the audience, thank you guys for tuning in. If you enjoyed the episode, please rate us wherever you're listening. Our handle's Pretty Invested Media, basically everywhere. And we'll have a new episode in two weeks.