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Dr. Jessica Taylor & The Queens on the Nuances of Victim Blaming (Part 1)
38 Plays3 years ago
The Queens welcome Chartered Psychologist and radical feminist author Dr. Jessica Taylor. She describes her inspiring journey from being sex trafficked as a teen mom to best selling author and J.K. Rowling mentee. She is the author of 2020's Why Women are Blamed for Everything: Exposing the Culture of Victim Blaming and her upcoming release Sexy But Psycho: How The Patriarchy Uses Women's Trauma Against Them
With Dr. Taylor, we also tackle the question "Is it fair to call women pick-mes?"
Part 2 of this episode will be on our patreon on Friday - an absolute must listen on a revolutionary new approach to mental health treatment. https://ww.patreon.com/TheFemaleDatingStrategy
Pre-Order Sexy But Psycho Here: https://www.bookdepository.com/Sexy-But-Psycho-Dr-Jessica-Taylor/9781472135506?ref=grid-view&qid=1628280669218&sr=1-6
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Guest
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, FDS listeners, are you looking for a new true crime podcast to binge?
00:00:06
Speaker
Introducing Forensic Tales.
00:00:08
Speaker
Hosted by me, Courtney Fretwell, Forensic Tales is a weekly true crime podcast with a forensic science twist.
00:00:17
Speaker
Each episode features real, bone-chilling stories to satisfy your inner forensic science and true crime itch.
00:00:25
Speaker
From fingerprinting to criminal profiling, we've got every investigative angle covered.
00:00:31
Speaker
Forensic Tales covers cases including well-known serial killers to cases you've probably never heard of.
00:00:38
Speaker
Some cases have been solved with forensic science, while others have turned cold.
00:00:44
Speaker
Forensic Tales is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now.
00:00:50
Speaker
That's Forensic Tales Podcast, a podcast that reminds us that not all stories have happy endings.
00:00:58
Speaker
Hey, queens.
00:00:59
Speaker
Are you ready to level up?
00:01:01
Speaker
Then join our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy where you can find weekly bonus content and FDS commentary on all the latest pop culture relationship and dating news.
00:01:13
Speaker
If you just want to listen to the extra bonus content, we have the lurker mode tier on our Patreon.
00:01:18
Speaker
If you want merchandise, I'll see you next time.
00:01:20
Speaker
access to the private FDS Patreon Discord, which also includes a monthly book club with FDS and feminist themed books, as well as FDS merchandise, t-shirts, mugs, and the opportunity to discuss topics with the FDS Podcast Queens live, as well as submit stories for our Rose Disco Queen and Nasus discussions on the podcast itself.
00:01:41
Speaker
So if you'd like access to all this and more, visit our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
Dr. Jessica Taylor's Early Life and Challenges
00:01:54
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:01:55
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:01:59
Speaker
I'm Ro.
00:02:00
Speaker
I'm Lilith.
00:02:01
Speaker
And today we have a very popular radical feminist.
00:02:04
Speaker
She rose to prominence on Twitter and wrote a very, quote, controversial book called Why Women Are Blamed for Everything.
00:02:11
Speaker
She's a chartered psychologist and founder of VictimFocus.org.uk, an organization that seeks to eradicate victim blaming and move large systems towards more informed and anti-oppressive ways of working with victimized people.
00:02:23
Speaker
Dr. Jessica Taylor.
00:02:25
Speaker
Thank you for having me.
00:02:26
Speaker
I'm so excited to do this.
00:02:27
Speaker
Honestly, I've been looking forward to this for ages.
00:02:30
Speaker
So have we.
00:02:32
Speaker
I've been looking forward to this for ages.
00:02:34
Speaker
So I'm so glad that you feel the same way.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, I do.
00:02:37
Speaker
You're a highly, highly requested guest.
00:02:39
Speaker
I find myself like always just liking and retweeting you like I have had it, right?
00:02:44
Speaker
I see a Jess Taylor tweet.
00:02:46
Speaker
I like, I retweet or quote tweet.
00:02:49
Speaker
Automatic.
00:02:50
Speaker
Oh, that makes me feel so much better.
00:02:51
Speaker
Maybe I can figure out what your handle is.
00:02:53
Speaker
And then I'll be like, oh, it's you.
00:02:55
Speaker
The first time you liked one of my tweets, I was like, oh my gosh, she noticed me.
00:03:00
Speaker
That's probably because you tweet awesome shit.
00:03:02
Speaker
Oh, thanks.
00:03:03
Speaker
But yeah, so we know who you are.
00:03:06
Speaker
And a lot of our listeners probably know who you are.
00:03:08
Speaker
But for people who might be tuning in for the first time, do you want to tell us a bit about your background, who you are, what you do, and how you got into this whole profession?
00:03:17
Speaker
Hmm.
00:03:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:19
Speaker
Where do you even start with that?
00:03:21
Speaker
That's massive.
00:03:22
Speaker
It's a big question, I know.
00:03:23
Speaker
Sorry.
00:03:24
Speaker
I feel like being like, hi, I'm Jess.
00:03:26
Speaker
I'm 31.
00:03:28
Speaker
What I was really interested in is how you had a sort of non-traditional start to your academic career.
00:03:34
Speaker
So I was really curious to know more about that and how that started.
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah, so you're absolutely right about that.
00:03:41
Speaker
I didn't finish high school because I had way too much going on in my life.
00:03:46
Speaker
I'd been being sexually exploited and trafficked and abused between 11 and 18.
00:03:52
Speaker
So even though I was like a straight A student, I just didn't have the brain power really for school.
00:03:58
Speaker
I couldn't be arsed with the bureaucracy and I didn't understand rules for the sake of rules.
00:04:04
Speaker
I was dealing with trying to stay alive.
00:04:06
Speaker
So if I went to school and they were like...
00:04:08
Speaker
you know, your tie's too short.
00:04:09
Speaker
I'd be like, oh, fuck off.
00:04:11
Speaker
Like I didn't have bigger problems than this.
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:04:14
Speaker
I was like, shut up, man.
00:04:16
Speaker
I'm coming down from drugs.
00:04:17
Speaker
Fuck off.
00:04:18
Speaker
Like, so I, I had too much going on.
00:04:21
Speaker
So I got in a lot of trouble at school, mainly just through, I guess, yeah, like not wanting to get involved in, you know, rules and arguments and things like that.
00:04:31
Speaker
So, um, yeah,
00:04:33
Speaker
I still tried really hard because I really, really loved learning, but I just didn't fit in.
00:04:37
Speaker
I was too much of a problem for them.
00:04:38
Speaker
So I also basically was convinced to run away from home and go and move in with this adult guy when I was 15 years old.
00:04:49
Speaker
So I actually left school and left the area I was living in and went and lived with this man.
00:04:53
Speaker
And it meant that, you know, I didn't finish high school anymore.
00:04:57
Speaker
So that means that I couldn't get into university in a traditional way or anything like that.
00:05:01
Speaker
I got pregnant when I was 16 and then I was beaten up and I had a miscarriage and then I got pregnant again almost straight away.
00:05:08
Speaker
And then I had a baby when I was 17, just 17.
00:05:12
Speaker
And, you know, you get thrust into that and I was just sort of like 17 years old with a baby, like, shit.
00:05:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:19
Speaker
Like, what do I do now?
00:05:21
Speaker
And I pretty much, I guess, decided that I had to, like, fend for myself and figure out how to, like, protect this little baby and what was I going to do, you know?
00:05:31
Speaker
I talk about this a lot with my partner, but abortion just, like, wasn't even suggested to me.
00:05:35
Speaker
Like, wasn't an option.
00:05:36
Speaker
Nobody was like, do you think maybe you want a termination?
00:05:40
Speaker
Like, I never had that conversation with anybody.
00:05:42
Speaker
I can honestly say never crossed my mind once, and that's not because I was, like, some maternal...
00:05:47
Speaker
I don't know, like Madonna type.
00:05:48
Speaker
It was like, it was just that I, I don't know, like I never even considered that that was an option.
00:05:54
Speaker
So I, you know, had a baby and I was like, right, what do I do now?
00:05:58
Speaker
And I started like working part time and trying to like protect myself and stuff.
00:06:02
Speaker
And then by the time the baby was five months old, I ran away from abuse and I ran away from the perpetrators and about 50 miles away, didn't tell anybody where I went and like tried to sort of protect myself and start again.
00:06:14
Speaker
And
00:06:14
Speaker
And then I met another guy who was abusive, but like, I guess, because he wasn't like literally beating the fuck out of me every day or like raping me or whatever.
00:06:26
Speaker
I thought it was like better and that it was like loads safer.
00:06:31
Speaker
And so I thought I was okay.
00:06:33
Speaker
And then I got...
00:06:33
Speaker
pregnant again really quick again not planned and then all of a sudden I was like 19 with two kids and I was like oh my god like I've I don't know what I'm gonna do and I had a stroke whilst I was pregnant with the second one when I was 19 and I then which is why I wear glasses um and then I so I had a stroke and then I went into premature labor at 29 weeks pregnant and then I was in hospital for five weeks with like myself and and the the second baby and um
00:07:01
Speaker
And yeah, and then like I got home and I had this like tiny little premature baby and I had like a two-year-old.
00:07:06
Speaker
I was like, what have I done?
00:07:08
Speaker
And I remember just being in the middle of the night and trying to feed this tiny little premature baby and thinking, oh my God, like what are you going to do with your life?
00:07:16
Speaker
Like you've now got to support two children.
00:07:19
Speaker
What are you going to do?
00:07:20
Speaker
That's basically where
Career in Supporting Abuse Victims
00:07:21
Speaker
my career started.
00:07:21
Speaker
I was like sat in the middle of the night thinking, right, what are you going to do now?
00:07:24
Speaker
And I thought, well, you know, maybe I could start by volunteering somewhere or maybe I could like build a career somehow.
00:07:32
Speaker
I had no idea how I was going to do any of that.
00:07:34
Speaker
I was actually...
00:07:35
Speaker
I can't remember, maybe it was around that time that I was out of the wheelchair by then because I was in a wheelchair for a little bit after the stroke and then I was on crutches for like six months, which was obviously difficult with like two tiny children.
00:07:47
Speaker
It must have been just after that maybe because I don't remember going to the interviews on crutches, so I must have been better by then.
00:07:53
Speaker
So I remember going to this interview and them saying, well, you can volunteer, but we don't really have any opportunities.
00:07:59
Speaker
And they said, we'll ring you if we're interested.
00:08:02
Speaker
And then about a week later, I got a phone call saying, look, there's this role working in a court with women who've been subjected to domestic violence.
00:08:09
Speaker
And they're like, I don't know if you want to do that.
00:08:10
Speaker
And I was like, uh...
00:08:12
Speaker
Yeah, I could probably do that.
00:08:13
Speaker
I was like, you know, just want to help really.
00:08:16
Speaker
And I remember naively at 19 thinking, oh, I'll be great at that because of everything I've lived through, you know, that I'll know everything there is to know about that.
00:08:24
Speaker
And which is wrong.
00:08:26
Speaker
Like I learned very quickly that that was bollocks and that, you know, just because you've lived through something doesn't make you the expert on it.
00:08:31
Speaker
And that just because you know your experience as a woman doesn't mean that you know every woman's experience.
00:08:36
Speaker
But that's definitely what I thought at 19 years old.
00:08:38
Speaker
So I went and did that.
00:08:40
Speaker
And then around that time, there were adverts on the TV saying that, you know, you could go to the open university if no other unis had let you in because you've got no qualifications or you've...
00:08:52
Speaker
you know, you're older and you've not had that traditional route.
00:08:55
Speaker
And I remember thinking like, maybe I could do that.
00:08:57
Speaker
So I went on the internet and had a look at the website and I sort of like submitted an application saying that I wanted to do a degree in psychology.
00:09:04
Speaker
And I decided around that time that maybe I wanted to be a psychologist and maybe I would see whether I was good enough.
00:09:09
Speaker
And I remember being so nervous when I submitted the application thinking, oh my God, they're just going to like email me back being like, no, fuck off.
00:09:17
Speaker
Yeah, we were only joking on the TV adverts, not you, love.
00:09:25
Speaker
But yeah, no, it was, yeah, I got an email back saying that I'd been accepted, which now on reflection makes a lot of sense considering they accept everybody.
00:09:35
Speaker
But yeah.
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah, I went and did a degree with the Open University, which is still an accredited degree and everything, but you do it part-time and you do it around kids and work and stuff.
00:09:49
Speaker
And the degree really gave me the confidence that I was actually intelligent enough to do that.
00:09:53
Speaker
And I remembered sort of like how much skill I had still.
00:09:56
Speaker
And I thought, oh, I found this really easy.
00:09:58
Speaker
And then from that, I started.
00:10:00
Speaker
I was volunteering in the courts on a Friday, supporting women who had been subjected to domestic violence.
00:10:05
Speaker
I was building my experience.
00:10:06
Speaker
I was going on lots of training courses and figuring out, you know, what I was good at and what I wasn't.
00:10:11
Speaker
So it took me four and a half, four or five, nearly five years to get my degree part time, which I thought wasn't too bad considering I was working and I had the kids.
00:10:23
Speaker
And within that five years, I was promoted several times and sort of went into more and more senior positions.
00:10:29
Speaker
Nice.
00:10:30
Speaker
Yeah, in the criminal justice system and stuff, which went down like a lead fucking balloon because I was like, what, 21 and I was an area manager in the criminal justice system, which didn't go down very well.
00:10:41
Speaker
I had staff members that I was managing that were like two or three times my age and they hated me.
00:10:47
Speaker
Wow.
00:10:48
Speaker
Yeah, it was really difficult to deal with.
00:10:50
Speaker
Like one time I remember they just came into my office and they put all of my paperwork through a shredder for a laugh and then sprinkled it all over my desk as like a way of trying to get me to resign.
00:10:59
Speaker
What?
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:01
Speaker
Excuse me.
00:11:01
Speaker
Yeah, pardon me.
00:11:03
Speaker
Yeah, I know.
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah, I know.
00:11:06
Speaker
I remember.
00:11:07
Speaker
I guess the upside of our very fire happy culture in America is that that would definitely issue fire in most offices here in the U.S. Yeah.
00:11:16
Speaker
The one upside.
00:11:17
Speaker
Yeah, 100%.
00:11:21
Speaker
But yeah, damn.
00:11:21
Speaker
First of all, when I read your story for the first time, hearing how rapidly promoted you got, I was like, queen, nice.
00:11:27
Speaker
I don't really know how that happened other than the fact that I have a life policy, which is throw yourself in the deep end and see if you can swim afterwards.
00:11:37
Speaker
And I've sort of done that ever since I was a teenager, basically, which is that whenever I saw a promotion go in, I used to think I'll apply for that.
00:11:46
Speaker
Even if I wasn't good enough for it, basically, I think like a mediocre man, which is, you know, just have a go.
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's the key to success.
00:11:54
Speaker
It is, it is.
00:11:55
Speaker
So I used to just be like, oh, have a go, see if it works.
00:11:57
Speaker
And if it does, it does.
00:11:58
Speaker
So that's what I used to do.
00:12:00
Speaker
So these promotions kept coming up and I used to think, well, I'll have a go because, you know, why not?
00:12:05
Speaker
And then I kept getting them.
00:12:06
Speaker
Yeah, by the time I was like 23 or 24, I was in senior management in the vulnerable, intimidated witness programs in the criminal justice system.
00:12:14
Speaker
So I specialized in homicide, trafficking, sexual and domestic violence.
00:12:18
Speaker
And the majority of all of those victims are women and girls.
00:12:20
Speaker
So basically, I worked with women and girls all day, every day.
00:12:25
Speaker
And then I went and worked in a rape center, took over management of a rape center where I had like 30 or 40 people.
00:12:33
Speaker
We provided counselling and focus groups and support groups for women and girls who'd been raped and abused.
00:12:39
Speaker
And I was probably about like 24 or 25 then.
00:12:41
Speaker
And then I, again, decided to just like...
00:12:45
Speaker
cheekily apply for a PhD with no master's degree because I thought I can talk my way into that because I can talk my way into anything frankly so I thought I'll have a go and see whether that works.
00:12:57
Speaker
I applied to like a top university thinking you know what are the chances really but I'll have a go so I applied to a top university for a PhD in forensic psychology when I was I was probably I must have been 24 because I started when I was 25 and I managed to convince them to take me on with no master's degree
00:13:13
Speaker
So I went from bachelor's to PhD and I argued that because of my work experience, I shouldn't be expected to do a master's.
00:13:20
Speaker
So I managed to get on and then I did the PhD really quite quickly because, again, still bringing up the kids.
00:13:26
Speaker
So technically I did the PhD part-time, but I kind of did it as fast and as effectively as I could.
00:13:31
Speaker
So it was supposed to, I think, like a full-time PhD takes like...
00:13:36
Speaker
uh three and a bit years but a part-time one can take six to ten years and I did it in um three years and three months to try and get it out of the way so that that would have taken me to like 28 or something like that and that's when I that's when I got my PhD and became a chartered psychologist and um yeah and then like during the PhD I basically
00:13:58
Speaker
quit my jobs because I went into senior management in human trafficking and sexual exploitation of women and girls and I quit my job and decided to set up victim focus when I was 26 27 and I just that was because I noticed how oppressive and misogynistic and victim blaming those systems and those services were that I was working in and I thought there's got to be a better fucking way of doing this
00:14:20
Speaker
And so I thought maybe I could have a go again.
00:14:23
Speaker
Maybe I could have a go and make it better.
00:14:26
Speaker
And yeah, we've just grown from there, really.
00:14:28
Speaker
So we're a team of 17 women at the moment.
00:14:31
Speaker
And we've just gone out to recruitment.
00:14:33
Speaker
I'm recruiting another 10 next month.
00:14:36
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:14:36
Speaker
And then the whole thing with the books is just another level of wild, just a wild ride of life, basically.
00:14:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah, because we all wanted to ask about that.
00:14:44
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to ask because I read a tweet thread you did a while ago where you were talking about how your haters basically were your motivators and the people that put you on the map.
00:14:53
Speaker
As far as a radical feminist author, which I thought was very similar to female dating strategies.
00:14:59
Speaker
Right.
00:14:59
Speaker
So I thought you could talk a little bit to that.
00:15:01
Speaker
About how your haters made you famous, basically.
00:15:04
Speaker
Yeah, there's loads of this.
00:15:06
Speaker
To be honest with you, right.
00:15:07
Speaker
I would I would take great pleasure in sitting there and shouting them all out and saying thank you because they crack me up.
00:15:14
Speaker
I actually find it really, really funny that they must watch me through gritted teeth.
00:15:18
Speaker
I find that dead funny.
00:15:20
Speaker
It proper tickles me every day.
00:15:22
Speaker
It's just fucking really funny.
00:15:24
Speaker
But there's been several attempts to properly destroy me that have backfired on every single person that's done them so far.
00:15:31
Speaker
And it's generally like men's rights activists or anti-feminists sort of organise it.
00:15:36
Speaker
Sometimes like alt-right groups have done it.
00:15:38
Speaker
I've had, I don't know, I've had academics do it, just academics that have
00:15:41
Speaker
like shut her up shut her up she's too mouthy I've had that sort of thing as well but I've had a couple times where it was fairly minor that meant that I was I think I was resilient enough I hate that word actually but I guess I endured because I don't like resilience I prefer endurance like I was able to endure what happened around the book which is how the book blew up was that you know I wrote why women are blamed for everything thinking I was going to sell fucking 50 copies or something and you know I would have been dead proud of that honestly I would and I only ordered
00:16:11
Speaker
fucking 50 or something anyway uh self-published it and i got a printer to print some out for me and i was dead proud of it and um it's a good book i've read it i liked it a lot yeah i'm glad it blew up thank you um it's actually a bit of a like i saw somebody online trashing it being like this is like a phd thesis hybrid book and i was like yeah no shit well yeah that's what what it is it literally says that it's like oh well done very observant
00:16:38
Speaker
um so yeah it was um it just yeah when what happened it was the the press had ran a story basically that had self-published this book and i somehow my my picture and my all my contact details got shared on some like forum of like mra's alt-right group i don't know exactly where it went but i just woke up one day to a
00:17:00
Speaker
Thousands and thousands of messages and comments and emails and just comments on every picture of me on my social media, on my Facebook, on my Twitter, on my Instagram.
00:17:10
Speaker
Every single platform was getting raided and it was just overwhelming.
00:17:14
Speaker
I'd never had any...
00:17:15
Speaker
I have had one instance of it being that bad, but not as intense as that.
00:17:20
Speaker
So it was like probably, I think it was like 10,000, just under 10 or just over 10,000 rape and death threats and like really, really abusive comments in about the space of five days.
00:17:33
Speaker
Over a book.
00:17:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:35
Speaker
And do you know the best bit about that?
00:17:36
Speaker
It wasn't even over the book.
00:17:37
Speaker
It was over a picture of me holding the book.
00:17:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:43
Speaker
That's all it was.
00:17:43
Speaker
That's all that caused it.
00:17:47
Speaker
So it was really, really bad.
00:17:49
Speaker
Like some of it was really, really bad.
00:17:51
Speaker
It was so violent.
00:17:52
Speaker
Some of the death threats and the rape threats I got was so graphic.
00:17:55
Speaker
And then my computer got hacked.
00:17:57
Speaker
So on the fifth day, my IT all got hacked and some dude took over my computer to like intimidate me and stuff.
00:18:04
Speaker
Yeah, it was pretty bad.
00:18:05
Speaker
It was pretty scary.
00:18:05
Speaker
The police took all my IT and was investigating it for ages.
00:18:08
Speaker
But anyway, so what had happened was then I had tweeted about what was happening and then the mainstream press picked up and it was like, you know, author of new feminist book gets like 10,000 rape and death threats in a week or whatever.
00:18:23
Speaker
And then because of that and because it went massive, the book that I had self-published sold 10,000 copies in six weeks.
Success as an Author
00:18:31
Speaker
Queen, nice.
00:18:35
Speaker
Which is like, I didn't realize that was a lot because I thought that people sold millions of books.
00:18:40
Speaker
That's not, by the way, that's not true.
00:18:42
Speaker
Like I thought that that's what happened when people were successful authors.
00:18:46
Speaker
I thought they sold like millions of copies, but they don't.
00:18:48
Speaker
And so 10,000 is actually like very, very high for books, especially for nonfiction book sales.
00:18:54
Speaker
Especially for your first book.
00:18:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:57
Speaker
And especially considering that they all got fucking delivered to my living room.
00:19:00
Speaker
Really?
00:19:01
Speaker
Seriously?
00:19:02
Speaker
Yeah, because I didn't have like, I hadn't like thought it through.
00:19:05
Speaker
Didn't have a warehouse or anything.
00:19:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:07
Speaker
Yeah, no, I didn't have it.
00:19:08
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:19:08
Speaker
I didn't have any facilities.
00:19:10
Speaker
I didn't have an agent.
00:19:10
Speaker
I didn't have a publisher.
00:19:11
Speaker
I didn't have a distributor.
00:19:13
Speaker
So I ordered the books to try and keep up with the orders that were coming through my website.
00:19:16
Speaker
And I just didn't think it through.
00:19:18
Speaker
I did not, I did not mentally sort of picture what 10,000 books looks like, but it's a lot.
00:19:25
Speaker
It's a lot of books.
00:19:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:28
Speaker
So they turned up on the driveway and this man in this huge lorry pulled up on my street and he said to me, is this the right address?
00:19:38
Speaker
And I was like, yeah.
00:19:39
Speaker
And he said, I usually deliver these to warehouses.
00:19:41
Speaker
And I was like, oh.
00:19:42
Speaker
And then he said, you realise they're on crates?
00:19:45
Speaker
And I was like, um, no.
00:19:47
Speaker
And then he got a little like forklift truck out and started like getting them off the lorry and just dwindling.
00:19:54
Speaker
Putting them on my drive.
00:19:55
Speaker
And I was like, oh, shit.
00:19:56
Speaker
And I've got pictures of this.
00:19:57
Speaker
I'll send you some pictures of me standing on the drive with crates and crates, like, higher than me of books.
00:20:03
Speaker
What did I get myself into?
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:05
Speaker
And I was like, shit.
00:20:07
Speaker
And then me and Jamie and her mom then had to take them all into the house box by box by box.
00:20:14
Speaker
And it was, like, raining.
00:20:15
Speaker
And we were like, shit, get them in.
00:20:16
Speaker
Like, rain was coming down.
00:20:18
Speaker
So...
00:20:19
Speaker
Yeah, so we had to take them in the house.
00:20:21
Speaker
And then once we'd filled up the whole dining room, the whole living room and the hallway and the stairs, then we just stood in the house looking at them like, oh, my God, now we have to pack them and ship them.
00:20:34
Speaker
we like we had no help so and it was lockdown we were in lockdown when this happened it was april 2020 um so this is recent this is like two years ago yeah this is yeah and then yeah so we were like trying to ship all these books right also i had made a very stupid decision of telling everybody that if they ordered the book i'd sign them oh no so
00:20:57
Speaker
So I had to sign 10,000 books and, um, I'm glad you follow through on your promises.
00:21:02
Speaker
Yeah, I absolutely do.
00:21:04
Speaker
But also I did get to the point where I was like delirious filling them out.
00:21:08
Speaker
So I can honestly say that if anybody out there has got a first edition of those first 10,000 that I signed, loads of them have got rude messages in and jokes because I got bored.
00:21:17
Speaker
So I started, instead of signing them, I started writing funny shit in them instead.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:23
Speaker
That's a collector's item at that point, really.
00:21:25
Speaker
One day it might be.
00:21:26
Speaker
Can you imagine?
00:21:28
Speaker
Putting it in a museum or something, yeah.
00:21:32
Speaker
But yeah, so then loads of celebrities started reading the book, right?
00:21:36
Speaker
Probably because they'd seen it in the press.
00:21:38
Speaker
And I started getting phone calls and emails, DMs on Twitter from really, really famous people.
00:21:45
Speaker
I was like, I thought I was being trolled at first.
00:21:47
Speaker
And then I realized it was real over a period of days.
00:21:50
Speaker
And I spoke to some incredible people that I literally was like...
00:21:55
Speaker
just like my jaw open the whole time.
00:21:57
Speaker
And, um, yeah, it just like continued to get big.
00:21:59
Speaker
And then like, um, JK Rowling contacted me and offered me some help.
00:22:03
Speaker
And she was like, you're obviously overwhelmed and you've, and like, you've sold 10,000 books.
00:22:07
Speaker
And she was like, where is your agent?
00:22:09
Speaker
I was like, I don't have a fucking agent.
00:22:10
Speaker
I don't know what an agent is.
00:22:12
Speaker
Um, and she was like, well, what about your publicist?
00:22:15
Speaker
I was like, I don't know what a publicist is, Joe.
00:22:17
Speaker
Um, and, and then she was like, well, who's distributing all your books?
00:22:21
Speaker
I was like me, my wife and her mom.
00:22:23
Speaker
Um,
00:22:24
Speaker
And she was like, you are joking.
00:22:26
Speaker
I was like, nope, not joking.
00:22:27
Speaker
So she said, like, let me like hook you up with some people that will help you.
00:22:31
Speaker
So that's how I got an agent.
00:22:33
Speaker
So me and Joe have the same agent.
00:22:35
Speaker
That is amazing that first of all, I'm a JK Rowling super fan.
00:22:39
Speaker
Secondly, I don't know how I'm sorry.
00:22:41
Speaker
I'm like still processing that information.
00:22:43
Speaker
Just that's amazing.
00:22:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:45
Speaker
She like descended down from the heavens like a fairy godmother.
00:22:48
Speaker
Exactly.
00:22:49
Speaker
Let me welcome you into the wonderful world of publishing.
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much is what happened.
00:22:54
Speaker
It was like some, it was, it was a pretty big shock.
00:22:57
Speaker
Like, you know, I can't describe it any other way.
00:22:59
Speaker
I was just in shock like the whole time.
00:23:02
Speaker
But yeah, she was like, let me set you up with my agent and you can have a chat with them.
00:23:06
Speaker
And if you like each other, maybe you can work together.
00:23:08
Speaker
And I was like, thank you.
00:23:09
Speaker
And then I met my agent and they were like awesome.
00:23:12
Speaker
And, you know,
00:23:13
Speaker
They're still awesome and I've been with them for two years and they helped me sign a multi-book deal with a great publisher and I love my publisher too.
00:23:21
Speaker
And they like totally don't control what I write at all.
00:23:24
Speaker
They're like, you know, their policy is, Jess, if you can evidence it, you back it up and you can argue it well, write what you fucking like.
00:23:31
Speaker
And I'm like, yes, leave me to it.
00:23:33
Speaker
Nice.
00:23:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:34
Speaker
I love that.
00:23:34
Speaker
So they basically republished Why Women are Blamed for Everything and took over all my distribution and stuff so I didn't have to do it.
00:23:41
Speaker
And then I wrote Sexy But Psycho, which is the one that's due out next week.
00:23:46
Speaker
Which I also love.
00:23:47
Speaker
I've read the first four chapters.
00:23:48
Speaker
Thanks for the sneak peek, by the way.
00:23:49
Speaker
And I'm riveted.
00:23:50
Speaker
I'm hanging off your every word.
00:23:52
Speaker
I wanted to finish it before we interviewed you, but I'm on chapter five right now.
00:23:57
Speaker
And so, yeah, let's talk about that too, because, wow, both of your books are just complete paradigm shifts for me.
00:24:03
Speaker
That's what I'm trying to do.
00:24:06
Speaker
So I'm glad.
00:24:08
Speaker
I'm still processing the whole comparison how what we call mental illness now is basically the same traits that we used to call witches, right?
00:24:17
Speaker
Yep.
00:24:17
Speaker
And how, you know, women who were, you know, too mouthy or too knowledgeable or too this or too that or too powerful, they'd call them witches and then burn them alive.
00:24:27
Speaker
And then now they're like, oh, well, you probably have borderline personality disorder.
00:24:31
Speaker
And then they get sectioned.
00:24:32
Speaker
By the way, what does being sectioned mean?
00:24:35
Speaker
What is that?
00:24:36
Speaker
It's a guess.
00:24:36
Speaker
It's like a term that's used in the UK that means that you're detained under a section of mental health law so that the phrase becomes sectioned.
00:24:46
Speaker
So it means to be detained in like a psychiatric facility.
00:24:50
Speaker
Jesus.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:51
Speaker
That's, I don't even know where to begin with that because it's just so wild to me that even just the fact that like a woman being lesbian or bisexual is considered a trait associated with BPD or like, oh, you have an unstable identity and so on.
00:25:04
Speaker
And that that was something happening as recently as 2019.
00:25:06
Speaker
Sorry, bro.
00:25:07
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:25:07
Speaker
I want to talk about our first book and then maybe transition to second book since we were just talking about the frenzy about herself.
00:25:12
Speaker
trying to distribute it.
00:25:15
Speaker
So the first book, you really start to outline how society creates these multi-layer systems which blame women for their own victimization.
00:25:23
Speaker
So could you give us an overview of the book and then talk about how that's integral with your work with Victim Focus?
00:25:28
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
00:25:30
Speaker
So Why Women Are Blamed for Everything was like my space to kind of demonstrate that all victim blaming of women and girls is deliberate, it's multi-layered and that it is supported, colluded with and encouraged at every level of society so that, you know, sometimes you hear people saying things like, oh, victim blaming, it's the media's fault.
00:25:49
Speaker
And...
00:25:50
Speaker
Yeah, it is, but it's not just the media because law enforcement support it and so does education and so does health and so does the family network and so does religion and so does culture and tradition.
00:26:00
Speaker
It's sort of like if you cut one head off, another one grows back.
00:26:04
Speaker
You can't just solve victim blaming of women and girls by being like, oh, it's the headlines fault because it just isn't.
00:26:10
Speaker
It doesn't work like that.
00:26:11
Speaker
But when I was studying, it very much is written like that.
00:26:14
Speaker
So the psychological literature is written like, oh, this is the reason for victim blaming and this is how we solve it.
00:26:19
Speaker
But like every time I read more and more and more and more, I just thought, no, it's not one reason.
00:26:25
Speaker
It's several because misogyny is like omnipresent.
00:26:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:29
Speaker
It's everywhere, you know, so it seeps into every single system.
00:26:33
Speaker
Equally as like present is the defense of men and defense of male perpetrators and male violence.
00:26:40
Speaker
So when you put those things together, you get this like constant culture of victim blaming that exists in every country in the world.
00:26:46
Speaker
You know, there's victim blaming language in every language spoken in the world.
00:26:50
Speaker
So, like, the book was my space to sort of lay that out and say, you know, women are blamed for everything.
00:26:56
Speaker
And the reason for the title was that at one point in my studies, I found so much evidence that you could take anything about that woman and use it to blame her.
00:27:07
Speaker
Like, if she's too pretty, that's her fault.
00:27:10
Speaker
If she's not pretty enough, that's her fault.
00:27:12
Speaker
If she's thin, it's her fault.
00:27:14
Speaker
If she's seen as overweight, that's her fault.
00:27:16
Speaker
Like, you know, for being subjected to male violence, like...
00:27:20
Speaker
There's just nothing really that protects you from victim blaming at all.
00:27:24
Speaker
And then the impact on your own well-being and your understanding of yourself is that as a woman or girl, we are very likely by the time we're like even 11 or 12 years old to blame ourselves when we're subjected to abuse, oppression and violence because, you know, we're in a society that teaches us that that's the case.
00:27:41
Speaker
case.
00:27:42
Speaker
So the book is like chapter by chapter, like different topics and different ways that victim blaming of women and girls happens with all the evidence that I've collected over the years and like my PhD and things that I learned from working in sexual exploitation and human trafficking, things that I learned from
00:27:57
Speaker
working in the criminal justice system, the interviews that I did with women who were blamed for sexual violence, and then the interviews I did with the professionals that work with women in women's services.
00:28:06
Speaker
I think I'll always be proud of that book.
00:28:09
Speaker
Sometimes I think I would like to rewrite it so that it's less structured like my thesis was, but I'm still super proud of it.
00:28:15
Speaker
And I know that it's now required reading on loads of degrees and masters and doctoral programs.
00:28:22
Speaker
I know that it's
00:28:22
Speaker
Students use it in their essays and their exams and psychologists use it, social workers use it, police officers use it.
00:28:29
Speaker
And it's become like a real source of information and facts.
00:28:32
Speaker
So, yeah, it's I guess it's for me, it meant that I could also present some of my ideas around integrated models of victim blaming.
00:28:40
Speaker
My like hierarchy model of like, you know, because I believe that there's a hierarchy of victims, like of women that you have to hit a certain standard to like even be taken seriously by society or the police or whatever.
00:28:53
Speaker
And the thing is that standard is so fucking high that like nobody hits it.
00:28:58
Speaker
Oh, and it shapeshifts.
00:28:59
Speaker
I mean, that was something that we kind of accidentally discovered with FDS as well, is that we just, you end up in such a small, tiny little corner and a small range of existence that you're allowed to have and not be victim blamed that you just sort of realize, oh,
00:29:13
Speaker
Well, none of this matters, so I can just do whatever I want.
00:29:16
Speaker
I feel like FDS just kind of came out on the other side where we realized, oh, if we're always going to be blamed for violence that happens on dates, if a guy leaves you after you're married, if you become a single mother, then you might as well take all of that knowledge.
00:29:29
Speaker
Just ask for whatever you want.
00:29:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:30
Speaker
Ask for everyone and then start making demands commensurate with the things that they say are the problem that's causing you to be victimized.
00:29:38
Speaker
Right.
00:29:38
Speaker
Because if men say things like, well, you should have thought about how much the father your child made before you had a kid with them.
00:29:44
Speaker
And that's why you're a broke single mother.
00:29:45
Speaker
Then it's like, OK, well, then you guys got to pay for dates or you have to do this or like we're going to look at your point.
00:29:49
Speaker
finances before we go on date or something like that.
00:29:52
Speaker
And they hate that.
00:29:53
Speaker
But I'm like, well, if we're going to be blamed for it, then why wouldn't you put some kind of system in place to make sure that you're not going to be a victim since it's going to be our fault when it happens?
00:30:04
Speaker
But they have like the shocked Pikachu face.
00:30:06
Speaker
they blame women like if they're abused they're like oh it's because you chose the wrong man you chose a guy who's like a you know a chad or an alpha or whatever and then we go okay so we're gonna establish a rigorous vetting process and we're gonna ruthlessly eliminate men who don't meet our standards are gonna raise our standards way the fuck higher uh and not put up with any shit and walk away the first sign of disrespect and they're like no not like that you know and they're like no no not like that uh
00:30:30
Speaker
You know, they get so mad when women realize that the game is rigged against us and that we start playing the game differently.
00:30:36
Speaker
And, you know, it's like you can't win as a woman, right?
00:30:39
Speaker
If you have high standards, all your standards are too high and too unrealistic.
00:30:42
Speaker
If you don't have high enough standards and think that happens to you, oh, well, it's your fault for having standards that aren't high enough, right?
00:30:48
Speaker
Then it's your own fault.
00:30:50
Speaker
Exactly.
00:30:50
Speaker
And so we figured out that double consciousness and just started making strategies that we thought would make sense.
00:30:56
Speaker
Be maximally beneficial to women.
00:30:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:58
Speaker
Right.
00:30:58
Speaker
Maximally beneficial, which has expired just mountains of focused hatred from pretty much everybody male.
00:31:05
Speaker
Yep.
00:31:06
Speaker
I absolutely love that.
00:31:08
Speaker
Except for our Patreon subbies who are male who love us.
00:31:10
Speaker
Shout out to you guys.
00:31:11
Speaker
We do have like a tiny male following that don't hate us and actually are pretty hardcore FDS fans.
00:31:17
Speaker
So I do appreciate those ones.
00:31:18
Speaker
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00:31:24
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:31:29
Speaker
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00:31:35
Speaker
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00:31:37
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:31:45
Speaker
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00:31:48
Speaker
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00:31:54
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:32:04
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:32:12
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:32:18
Speaker
This message was brought to you by this episode's sponsor, unidragon.com.
00:32:22
Speaker
Back to the show.
00:32:23
Speaker
you know fds we started out as a tiny little subreddit and you know we went viral for you know it was quite similar to to your case actually how like um you know we had like one post that you know people rage shared on the manosphere and then we started picking up media attention and then that sort of just like snowballed into this whole thing and now we have a podcast so yeah it's awesome i absolutely love that it's so funny i love that i love that they get like so angry and then you end up doing better and then they get angrier it's just great yeah
00:32:55
Speaker
I'm like just cackling on my throne, on my dark throne.
00:32:59
Speaker
We end every episode with the phrase die mad because we kind of mean it.
00:33:03
Speaker
Yeah, they're just going to have to die mad.
00:33:05
Speaker
Yeah, die mad about it.
00:33:06
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds a lot like how I get because I've got, there's so many, like I said, there's so many people that have really put a lot of time and effort into trying to discredit me, trying to destroy me, like hit me where it hurts.
00:33:17
Speaker
Like they've really tried everything.
00:33:18
Speaker
Like at this point, I can't think of...
00:33:21
Speaker
anything I can't really think of anything that hasn't been thrown at me from every angle and like when they come up with something new I'm like fuck that's inventive
00:33:33
Speaker
because I didn't think there was anything left.
00:33:35
Speaker
I wish there was something new.
00:33:37
Speaker
I'm so tired of reading the same FemCell and Cat Lady comments over and over and over again.
00:33:42
Speaker
I'm like, guys, please come up with something original.
00:33:45
Speaker
Some of mine have got really, really inventive.
00:33:48
Speaker
I saw one the other day that said that it's moved on now.
00:33:52
Speaker
All of that stuff is pretty... I do get that stuff, but some of the stuff's really inventive.
00:33:57
Speaker
The other day I saw one saying that...
00:34:00
Speaker
I lie about everything that happened to me in childhood and growing up in poverty and having nothing and that my dad is actually a powerful lord.
00:34:08
Speaker
DNA tests, sir.
00:34:09
Speaker
I know, yeah.
00:34:11
Speaker
I was like...
00:34:17
Speaker
what and i said to my wife i said to my wife earlier i was like if my dad was a powerful lord he'd be dead because he's an alcoholic and he would have drank himself to death by now so there was there was that one and then i saw one the other day saying that i was um what's it called a scientologist what i know i don't even like i don't i had to like i don't know anything about it
00:34:37
Speaker
My favorite ones are the ones that are like factually incorrect, though.
00:34:40
Speaker
Like I've seen some tweets that are like, oh, Dr. Jess Taylor is just like a bitter, childless fem cell.
00:34:46
Speaker
You know, she's just mad because she's single.
00:34:47
Speaker
I'm like, you do realize she's like married with children, right?
00:34:50
Speaker
And has like a whole adorable family of pets and stuff.
00:34:52
Speaker
And her life seems pretty great.
00:34:53
Speaker
Like a lot of these guys, when they say, oh, you're just a bitter fem cell, those guys are almost always bitter incels themselves.
00:34:59
Speaker
And they're just projecting their own shit.
00:35:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:01
Speaker
don't even know what we look like but they attack our looks right i don't know they're just so misogynistic and they think that a woman's value is only in her looks and so they'll just attack that even if they have no idea what she looks like it's such bullshit yeah that's so true and also like i mean obviously people know what i look like but i can't i don't get bored of like the whole i don't know i'll put something up like a really considered argument about i don't know some issue in society and then a man will be like yeah well um no one wants to fuck you
00:35:29
Speaker
And I'll be like, tell that to my wife.
00:35:32
Speaker
But like, I'm just like thinking, is that what you think hurts?
00:35:37
Speaker
Like, so do you think that my whole life revolves around wanting men on the internet to read my tweet about, I don't know, a theory of victim blaming and then think, God, I hope this makes men want to shag me.
00:35:52
Speaker
Like, what on earth do they think I'm doing?
00:35:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:56
Speaker
Men use that because that's how they judge themselves by.
00:35:59
Speaker
So they think it hurts women because it hurts them.
00:36:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's important to them.
00:36:04
Speaker
So the fact that they can't get laid, they think, oh, well, I feel like a fucking loser because no one wants to touch me.
00:36:10
Speaker
So they go around accusing women of that.
00:36:12
Speaker
So they assume you value that and that's your problem too.
00:36:15
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:36:15
Speaker
Like, I don't think that they understand that.
00:36:17
Speaker
I would be a lot more hurt if they contacted me and was like, I've read your book and on page 192, there's a typo.
00:36:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:25
Speaker
I would be fucking distraught.
00:36:27
Speaker
Yeah, there's actually some things that if our critics attack me for that I know that would actually destroy me, but so far I've never heard a single one of them actually say, I'm going to keep that to myself.
00:36:35
Speaker
But like, there are certain things that people could criticize me for that would destroy me, but I've yet to hear them.
00:36:40
Speaker
And so that's why I kind of chuckle to myself.
00:36:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:46
Speaker
But I wanted to ask you because you know, it's weird.
00:36:49
Speaker
So there's a certain segment on Twitter that of Radfem Twitter that says that FDS engages in victim blaming because we teach women about like spotting red flags.
00:37:01
Speaker
They think the entire premise of like vetting men is inherently victim blaming.
00:37:05
Speaker
And so like,
00:37:06
Speaker
of course we would never like if a woman was abused we'd never be like oh she should have vetted him better we would never say something like that it's more of like a proactive like preventative kind of um but i wanted to know what are your thoughts like i want to know from the expert herself like is it victim blaming to learn about how to spot red flags
00:37:22
Speaker
Okay, so my view on that is similar to the way that you've described
Complexities of Victimhood and Perpetration
00:37:26
Speaker
it.
00:37:26
Speaker
So I have some caveats.
00:37:27
Speaker
So the first is, if this is a conversation between two equal women, just talking about the signs in men that make them feel uncomfortable and how to like respond to them or spot them or whatever, then I don't feel that that's victim blaming.
00:37:41
Speaker
But if that was a person in power, if that was law enforcement or if that was, you know, a teacher or a social worker being like, you need to spot these red flags.
00:37:51
Speaker
Why don't you keep spotting them?
00:37:52
Speaker
You know, you're putting yourself at risk by not spotting them and escaping these perps.
00:37:56
Speaker
And yeah, I have a fucking problem with it.
00:37:58
Speaker
So like, and then the other thing about that is what you just said is that I think it goes into victim blaming at the moment when someone goes, well, why didn't you notice the red flags?
00:38:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:08
Speaker
That for me is a problem.
00:38:10
Speaker
So I talk about it myself.
00:38:11
Speaker
I put a tweet up the other day being like, oh, I know what it was.
00:38:16
Speaker
I said, if you are with a man who tells you that all of his exes are psycho and all of his exes are liars and jealous and don't listen to anything my exes say because they're all fucking jealous and they just want to split us up, I was like, red fucking flag.
00:38:32
Speaker
Like that is a big problem, you know.
00:38:35
Speaker
So I'm not saying, you know, and then if you're with a dude like that, it's your own fault because that's a huge leap.
00:38:41
Speaker
I'm just pointing out the red flag in him.
00:38:44
Speaker
If, however, I was putting a message up being like, you know, and if you don't spot this and you choose to stay with him, then you're the problem.
00:38:49
Speaker
Then, yeah, I think that's victim blaming.
00:38:51
Speaker
So I wanted to follow up with that because sometimes we do call women pick me's for perpetuating what we think are systems of patriarchy and more or less knowingly doing it.
00:39:01
Speaker
When do you think someone crosses over from victim to victimizer, even if they're female?
00:39:06
Speaker
Because there are women who...
00:39:08
Speaker
I want to call them handmaidens, but I remember there was this whole plate-shaming controversy on Twitter about women being like, if you don't fix your man a plate during Thanksgiving or Christmas, then he has a right to divorce you.
00:39:19
Speaker
Another woman will.
00:39:20
Speaker
Exactly.
00:39:21
Speaker
There's stuff like that where you're like, I don't want to blame them for the messages that they received as a kid that make them believe this kind of stuff, but they also voluntarily got on Twitter and decided to shame other women for not doing something what we'd call pick me, right?
00:39:36
Speaker
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
00:39:37
Speaker
So how do you reconcile those two ideas?
00:39:39
Speaker
See, maybe we differ on this slightly, but I genuinely see those as like even bigger victims of the patriarchy than women that can spot it.
00:39:48
Speaker
I just think that when you're that deep into it and you are so deep into it and you're so sure that, I don't know, that you like literally being a servant to men makes you righteous in some way to the point where you push it on other women to
00:40:02
Speaker
and then try and shame them, all that does to me is shout how controlled and groomed you are.
00:40:09
Speaker
How indoctrinated they are.
00:40:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:11
Speaker
That worries me.
00:40:12
Speaker
Women like that scare me, but they scare me because you just know they're being treated like shit every day, but they've been groomed to enjoy it.
00:40:20
Speaker
They've been groomed to think that's normal.
00:40:22
Speaker
Whenever I see comments, because I see that all the time on my social media, and I know that some of my followers will comment back, be like, oh, you fucking handmaiden, or you pick me, or whatever.
00:40:31
Speaker
And I always think, I know that that comment is inflammatory and I know that that comment is shaming other women, but I think that's a real woman in a real relationship with a real man who has pushed her down so much that she's now on Facebook, like, you know, taking chunks out of some other woman for like the things that you just said, like not cooking well enough or, you know, something really domesticated.
00:40:55
Speaker
There's that and then there's a real level of internalised misogyny, you know, to the point where I don't think it's possible to argue that women aren't, you know, constantly impacted by levels of misogyny in society.
00:41:07
Speaker
So I think it's normal that women are misogynistic towards other women.
00:41:11
Speaker
And I think that's slightly different because I think that women can choose to victimise other women.
00:41:16
Speaker
I think women, you know, I've said this before.
00:41:18
Speaker
I made a video about it recently that I was going to put out because it makes some radical feminists really uncomfortable.
00:41:23
Speaker
But I am sick to death of defending violent and abusive women by saying things like, oh, she was vulnerable and man made her do it.
00:41:33
Speaker
You know, it's not her fault.
00:41:35
Speaker
She was a victim too and all that shit.
00:41:37
Speaker
Like, at the end of the day, I think it's misogynistic to not accept that
00:41:41
Speaker
that women do have the capability and the power to be dangerous offenders, violent offenders, right?
00:41:46
Speaker
Right.
00:41:47
Speaker
No, that's where I'm at.
00:41:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:49
Speaker
So I'm glad that someone else agrees, right?
00:41:51
Speaker
Because the thing is about this is that I think we should be more interested in the fact that
00:41:56
Speaker
Women have the power, the capability, the intelligence, the strength and the violence in them, right, to go out and fucking kill people, sexually assault people, kill kids, whatever it is that men are out there doing all the fucking time, right?
00:42:08
Speaker
But they don't do it.
00:42:09
Speaker
The interest should be in why they don't do it because they've got the fucking power to do it.
00:42:13
Speaker
They've got the capability to do it.
00:42:14
Speaker
So there's a choice being made there or...
00:42:17
Speaker
or they're socially groomed and controlled not to utilise those parts of themselves.
00:42:23
Speaker
So I have no interest in trying to minimise, like, for example, when a woman goes out and murders two people, or when a woman has killed her own kids, or a woman shoots her husband, or whatever it is, I have no interest in defending that woman.
00:42:36
Speaker
Like, I'm not going to sit there and be like, oh, you know, it's not her fault, she was abused as a child.
00:42:40
Speaker
We don't accept that shit for men, don't accept it for women.
00:42:43
Speaker
Like, let women, you know, be accountable for women.
00:42:46
Speaker
Women can be shitty people too.
00:42:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:42:48
Speaker
Like, yeah, exactly.
00:42:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:50
Speaker
It's tough because, um, you know, I think part of the reason why we've been controversial, even with feminist groups too, is because we also acknowledge like the wound that comes with the fact if your mother is violent or is like a massive pick me and puts like her husband or her boyfriend above you, like that causes personal wounds.
00:43:08
Speaker
And we sort of
00:43:10
Speaker
Let women validate the fact that like, yes, you do have a right to be angry for not being protected by a mother figure who should have protected you.
00:43:18
Speaker
Right.
00:43:18
Speaker
But it can come across, I think, as well as victim as victim blaming, because sometimes they're like, well, maybe she couldn't have left.
00:43:24
Speaker
But then there's other times they're like, no, she could have.
00:43:26
Speaker
And she chose not to.
00:43:27
Speaker
She chose her boyfriend.
00:43:28
Speaker
She chose her husband over her children, et cetera.
00:43:30
Speaker
So it's a really complicated issue.
00:43:32
Speaker
Like, just to give you an example, like, just to give you an example, like, I have an aunt who her second husband was molesting my cousin, her, a child from her first marriage.
00:43:42
Speaker
And when my cousin made an accusation against him, my aunt sided with her husband.
00:43:48
Speaker
And, you know, in the family, it's like, oh, well, she couldn't have left.
00:43:51
Speaker
You know, she was financially reliant on him.
00:43:53
Speaker
You know, she had to do what she she did, what she thought to protect her family.
00:43:57
Speaker
And so, no, no, no.
00:43:58
Speaker
She sided with her child molester husband and CPS came in, took all the kids, not just my cousin, but all the other kids as well, because they said, like, well, as long as there's a child molester here, the kids can't live here.
00:44:11
Speaker
Right.
00:44:11
Speaker
So all the kids go to foster care.
00:44:13
Speaker
And then my cousin ends up recanting because foster care was so difficult for all of them.
00:44:18
Speaker
And she felt like she was responsible and feeling like, and all of my cousins, by the way, who went into foster care were abused or some of them even sexually abused.
00:44:26
Speaker
And so she ended up recanting.
00:44:28
Speaker
And now she has a reputation for like, oh, she makes false accusations, yada, yada, yada.
00:44:31
Speaker
When the whole reason why she recanted, even though it did actually happen,
00:44:34
Speaker
The whole reason why she recanted was to protect her own siblings, right?
00:44:38
Speaker
And so this, like, my aunt, for example, is someone who's very controversial in our family.
00:44:42
Speaker
Like, some people, I really get angry with people who feel a lot of sympathy for her.
00:44:46
Speaker
Like, oh, she was abused too and so on.
00:44:48
Speaker
It's like, no, she made a conscious choice to side with her husband over her own children.
00:44:53
Speaker
And she was, like, just a diehard, like, you know, stood by him in court, like, saying, like, that her own child was lying about being molested and stuff.
00:45:01
Speaker
This is an example of a woman who's, like, to me, like...
00:45:04
Speaker
so willing to throw, yeah, she might be indoctrinated, yeah, she might have been socialized a certain way, but, like, there are a lot of women who are abused who don't make those kinds of choices, right?
00:45:12
Speaker
And I think it's insulting to say that, oh, women, you know, terrorize other women because they were abused, just the same way I think it's unfair to say that men terrorize women because they were molested as kids or whatever.
00:45:22
Speaker
Those decisions are, like, a conscious choice, right?
00:45:24
Speaker
And so women like that, and, you know,
00:45:27
Speaker
With FDS, a lot of women who follow FDS, I've noticed, do have a difficult relationship with their mothers.
00:45:32
Speaker
I have a difficult relationship with my mother for a lot of these same reasons.
00:45:35
Speaker
And so we've been accused of, I guess, victim blaming because we hold these kinds of women responsible for their choices.
00:45:43
Speaker
And like Lilith just illustrated, it's multiple layers of betrayal, right?
00:45:46
Speaker
There's the victim blaming going on from the family, and then there's the victimization going on in the foster care system, or the victimization and the betrayal you feel of having your mother figure not defend you.
00:45:55
Speaker
So it's been a really, really tough process for us to even navigate this very sensitive thing, because there are times where, yes, there's some women that they just truly don't know any better, and then...
00:46:05
Speaker
I think pop media has always painted these women as victims or like totally victims, but those of us who've also experienced it or have seen them make choices against the interest of people around them that actually had cascading negative effects, if not traumatic, extremely traumatic effects.
00:46:24
Speaker
So it's like, how do we be honest to our experience?
00:46:27
Speaker
hold women accountable for choices that, especially when it comes to their children, can lead to intense amount of trauma, and at the same time push back at a system that created it, right, like the patriarchy.
00:46:39
Speaker
So it's, I mean, it's sticky to navigate this discussion, and I don't even know that we get it right all the time.
00:46:46
Speaker
I think that, um...
00:46:48
Speaker
It's complex.
00:46:49
Speaker
And the reason that it feels really complex is often because women have been typecast as like one dimensional.
00:46:56
Speaker
So when they start contradicting shit, like in who they are as a person, everybody's like, what the fuck's going on?
00:47:03
Speaker
You can
00:47:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:05
Speaker
You can be a complex, multifaceted human being?
00:47:09
Speaker
What?
00:47:09
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:47:11
Speaker
So even the theories around it are one-dimensional and the discussions are one-dimensional and the literature is one-dimensional.
00:47:19
Speaker
And then so when you try to reconcile all those complex nuances and identities, even as you're having these conversations often and I'm having these conversations often, you still end up pausing and being like, um...
00:47:34
Speaker
Because we always say, too, because we have a lot of people that have been truly, truly victimized by some truly awful circumstances.
00:47:41
Speaker
I feel like just like the willingness to seek out help is just far and above, far and above what we see from some other women who we feel like they're sort of content to maintain the status quo.
00:47:53
Speaker
As long as they're relatively comfortable compared to other women.
00:47:56
Speaker
As long as they're relatively comfortable.
00:47:57
Speaker
So for us, it's like we've seen women go through horrible circumstances and then take it upon themselves to either break the cycle, not repeat the cycle by any means necessary, or at least understand
Why Women Stay in Abusive Situations
00:48:09
Speaker
that you can be both a victim and responsible, right?
00:48:12
Speaker
It's not necessarily black and white.
00:48:14
Speaker
You can be a victim and...
00:48:15
Speaker
a person who perpetrates abuse or at least exacerbates and upholds a system of abuse.
00:48:21
Speaker
So we've sort of reconciled it with the idea that you can do both and that your responsibility is to do your best and your responsibility is to seek out strategies to better things.
00:48:30
Speaker
And that if you don't do that, then you're sort of tacitly accepting the way things are.
00:48:34
Speaker
I think it depends.
00:48:35
Speaker
There's some of this, I don't know, there's some of what you say, it would depend on the individual circumstance because the way that you've just described that,
00:48:46
Speaker
I can think of cases where women have been definitely seen like that and then when you scratch the surface, they're actually absolutely terrified for their lives.
00:48:55
Speaker
So they'll stay there forever because they know that if they leave, he will never leave them.
00:49:00
Speaker
He will destroy them and he will take great pleasure in it for the next two months or 20 years.
00:49:06
Speaker
But I also, as I said, and I stand by it, that I know that there are
00:49:12
Speaker
women and I've met women like it and I'm still like some of the things that even have happened to me in my life have been women who have who have done that and made choices to do so and you could technically argue that they're all victims of oppression and patriarchy and then therefore you could then sort of fall down a rabbit hole saying well then they're not responsible for anything they say or do or you know because they're victims first and foremost but I just I
00:49:39
Speaker
It's all, I think it's all context driven.
00:49:41
Speaker
I think it's all based on individual examples and individual, I guess, details of each situation.
00:49:48
Speaker
But I think in the majority of cases, if we were talking about women who can't or don't leave abuse, I mean, I've worked with thousands of women in the last 12 years and in the most, you know, in the vast majority of cases, it doesn't matter what resources you think that woman has, whether that's psychological resources, financial resources or whatever, even if they look comfortable and privileged.
00:50:09
Speaker
They are either so downtrodden by the abuse that they have absolutely no strength to do it.
00:50:18
Speaker
Like it's too much.
00:50:19
Speaker
So they stay there.
00:50:20
Speaker
Or sometimes it's that they know that that perpetrator is going to fucking kill them or is going to make their life hell or know stuff about them that no one else knows and will go and tell their family or tell their workplace or will destroy their lives or their reputation or their business or whatever.
00:50:36
Speaker
So they stay there.
00:50:37
Speaker
And then in other cases, they stay out of guilt.
00:50:39
Speaker
In some cases, they stay out of shame or cultural norms.
00:50:43
Speaker
Or in some cases, they stay for religious reasons, like they believe that if they leave their marriage or their relationship, they'll live in sin.
00:50:49
Speaker
There's just so many ways you can keep a woman in those situations to the point where they actually become indoctrinated and they accept these things to be real about themselves and about other women.
00:51:01
Speaker
The other thing that happens, I think, is that there's a level of psychological safety you can afford to yourself by convincing yourself that you are actually not being abused and you're fine and that it's other women with the problem and you don't need to get out and that, you know, the women around you are jealous or they're causing problems for you or they're lying about your spouse or whatever it is because it's a defence mechanism for you psychologically to convince yourself that it's everybody else with the problem and that your relationship is absolutely fine and that
00:51:31
Speaker
you know you're not really being abused you're in total control because I mean I've worked with teenage girls that were being trafficked and bought and sold and raped and were being threatened with their lives all the time and you sit them down and say you know um we need to help you get out we need we're going to help you escape and they're like escape what
00:51:47
Speaker
Like, I'm in total control here.
00:51:48
Speaker
And you're sort of like, how are you in control?
00:51:50
Speaker
And they're like, because, you know, I can do whatever I want and he'll pay me.
00:51:54
Speaker
And we're like, no, you're being trafficked.
00:51:56
Speaker
And they're like, no, I'm in control because if I go and give him a blowjob now, he'll give me, you know, 50 quid.
00:52:02
Speaker
And we're like, well, that's because he's a perpetrator and he's a grown ass man and he knows he can exploit and control you.
00:52:08
Speaker
And they're like, no, I'm exploiting and controlling him.
00:52:11
Speaker
And like, that's, that purely is psychological defense mechanism, right?
00:52:15
Speaker
Yeah, I've seen, if you've ever seen the YouTube channel Soft White Underbelly, occasionally they interview pimps.
00:52:22
Speaker
And part of what the pimps do is convince these girls that they're in control.
00:52:27
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:52:28
Speaker
It's actually so insidious the way that they spin a narrative to make the prostitution seem like it's...
00:52:36
Speaker
like a power position all while they're being exploited by both the Johns and the pimp himself.
00:52:42
Speaker
So that in itself is like multi-layered narratives that are full of bullshit that they've respun into female empowerment.
00:52:51
Speaker
So it's interesting to see
00:52:53
Speaker
This is a side note, but it's interesting to see that on sex work, Twitter, they say the same thing.
00:52:57
Speaker
Like, yeah, sex work, Twitter and liberal feminist media that just sort of wholeheartedly accepts this as reality.
00:53:03
Speaker
And I'm like, you don't even understand the various levels of power that you don't have.
00:53:09
Speaker
Because if you understood it, you wouldn't call this power, right?
00:53:12
Speaker
Because you're at best a worker.
00:53:14
Speaker
And the thing about being any type of wage worker is that you're at the mercy of market demands.
00:53:23
Speaker
And something like sex trafficking, sex work, etc., market demands are often depraved and violent.
00:53:28
Speaker
Right.
00:53:28
Speaker
I don't know.
00:53:29
Speaker
I just have very little patience for lying.
00:53:32
Speaker
And so when I see women go online and talk about like, oh, I'm actually in the power position or, you know, sex workers are in the power position, they're actually exploiting the men.
00:53:41
Speaker
You know, even if they're saying it as a psychological defense mechanism, I see that and I just get so pissed off by dishonesty.
00:53:48
Speaker
But they don't think that...
00:53:49
Speaker
they don't think they're being dishonest because they genuinely believe that shit.
00:53:52
Speaker
Like that, that's not, they're not, they're not attempting to convince anybody or anything like that.
00:53:58
Speaker
They genuinely, genuinely believe that it's the way that they are able to function, especially when you've been in prostitution.
00:54:06
Speaker
You know, that is like when I was in prostitution, that's exactly what I thought was like, you know, that it was me with all the power and that it was brilliant and that I could do whatever I wanted.
00:54:16
Speaker
And the men were just like,
00:54:18
Speaker
They're just like that men are just stupid and you just make them do what you want like for money basically but that's that was very short-lived for me like literally like incredibly short-lived because I realized how much danger I was actually in and that that could turn on me at any moment and I would be fucked.
00:54:35
Speaker
Like I would be dead.
00:54:36
Speaker
And once that had got in my head, I couldn't stop thinking about it.
00:54:39
Speaker
And then I didn't ever do it again.
00:54:41
Speaker
And it was like, I was very lucky because my life path could have been very different if I didn't get out really early, which is what I did.
00:54:48
Speaker
It's enough for me.
00:54:49
Speaker
Even the memories of it is enough for me to know that in every situation I was in,
00:54:55
Speaker
I had absolutely no power whatsoever, but I definitely convinced myself that I did.
00:55:00
Speaker
Like, absolutely, I did.
00:55:01
Speaker
I thought I did.
00:55:02
Speaker
If you would have asked me when I was 18, I would have told you that I'm in total power and this is brilliant and who the fuck are you to tell me what to do?
00:55:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's tough.
00:55:12
Speaker
Another example of like both perpetrator and victim is this is a conversation that happens a lot in the subreddit where women from certain cultures where it's normal to when you get married.
00:55:25
Speaker
to join for the wife to join the husband's family and so we read a lot of horror stories on the subreddit about women talking about how their mother-in-laws bully them and treat them like scullery maids and treat them like shit and emotionally terrorize them even sometimes physically like abusing them and so on yeah and it's really really difficult because these mother these mother-in-laws they think that's normal and they think that that's well that's what I've
00:55:51
Speaker
I went through when she got married and so on.
00:55:52
Speaker
Right.
00:55:53
Speaker
And she thinks that that's just like the circle of life.
00:55:55
Speaker
You know, you, you get married, you know, you get treated like shit by your mother-in-law.
00:55:59
Speaker
If you have a son, great, you're golden.
00:56:01
Speaker
And then you're, you get a daughter-in-law that you then get to abuse.
00:56:04
Speaker
Right.
00:56:05
Speaker
And so it's that, it's that sort of thing where, again, I have very little patience for, I'm just an impatient person in general.
00:56:11
Speaker
That's just kind of how I be.
00:56:13
Speaker
But, um, I don't know.
00:56:14
Speaker
I, I read these kinds of stories and I just get so angry at the mothers-in-laws.
00:56:17
Speaker
It's like how, you know, cause I've been abused and I've been treated like shit by women as well.
00:56:22
Speaker
And I, I learned that like, Oh, being abused feels shitty.
00:56:26
Speaker
And like, I don't want to make other people feel shitty.
00:56:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:29
Speaker
Put it on someone else.
00:56:31
Speaker
Right.
00:56:31
Speaker
You know, so I wouldn't want to make someone else feel as badly as I was treated, right?
00:56:35
Speaker
And if I've, you know, been through suffering, right?
00:56:37
Speaker
So I just can't wrap my mind around, you know, going through abuse and then actually wanting to do that to other people.
00:56:43
Speaker
I just, I don't understand it.
00:56:46
Speaker
No, I know.
00:56:47
Speaker
But like, if you're not that kind of person, you just won't understand it.
00:56:50
Speaker
Like I don't either.
00:56:52
Speaker
And I could never imagine doing, like if I think about all the things I've been through and all the things that I felt, you'll notice, for example, that, and I've had to have these conversations with like my wife and like with my family members and stuff.
00:57:05
Speaker
I'm so anti-aggression and anti-violence.
00:57:07
Speaker
I don't even have shouting in my house.
00:57:09
Speaker
Like I can't, I can't even, like there's just, and it doesn't matter as well.
00:57:13
Speaker
Like people think that I'm quite,
00:57:15
Speaker
confrontational and quite feisty.
00:57:17
Speaker
And I'm not.
00:57:17
Speaker
I'm actually really slow to temper.
00:57:19
Speaker
I have a very, very laid back temperament.
00:57:21
Speaker
And partially that's because I take a breath and I have a think and I don't want to inflict any kind of aggression or violence that I've lived through on another human being.
00:57:30
Speaker
I don't want to do it.
00:57:31
Speaker
So I choose not to.
00:57:32
Speaker
It's a conscious decision.
00:57:33
Speaker
And that comes back to what you're saying about, for example, with this mother-in-law, right?
00:57:37
Speaker
Yes, she's been subjected to it.
00:57:39
Speaker
Yes, she might think it's normal, but there is still a conscious decision there
00:57:42
Speaker
to act it out over again in a cycle.
00:57:45
Speaker
There is, I'm sorry, there is.
00:57:46
Speaker
Because there are so many women who have been subjected to these types of violence and abuse that then couldn't think of anything worse than actually inflicting it on somebody else.
00:57:56
Speaker
And they never do it because it would trigger them so bad.
00:57:59
Speaker
It would upset them.
00:58:00
Speaker
It would scare them.
00:58:02
Speaker
It would, it would,
00:58:02
Speaker
traumatize them to inflict it on somebody else so as far as I'm concerned in cases like that it's not as simple as um you know like normalization and desensitization to it it's actually that it's a way of lashing out I'm sure it's like a way of taking it out on another woman so you're no longer at the bottom of the pile there's there's another woman under you that you can inflict it on do you know what I mean and because of patriarchy and misogyny
00:58:26
Speaker
It's seen as an upgrade.
00:58:27
Speaker
Like you go from being abused to abuser.
00:58:29
Speaker
That's seen as like you're moving up in life.
00:58:31
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:58:32
Speaker
And like we, I see that even in professional practice, you know, you get women in that become in positions of power in social care, police forces and, you know, psychology, therapy, and you give them a bit of power.
00:58:45
Speaker
And, you know, at the end of the day, there's different kinds of people.
00:58:49
Speaker
If you give some kinds of people power, they'll fucking harm people with it.
00:58:52
Speaker
And other people are very, very careful with levels of power.
00:58:55
Speaker
And the same goes for women, which is what we were saying earlier, is that it would be misogynistic to suggest...
00:59:00
Speaker
that women are always safe with power.
00:59:03
Speaker
They're not.
00:59:03
Speaker
Why would they be, unless you believe the gender role stereotype, which is that all women are safe, all women are nurturing, all women are selfless and caring and lovely, which is bollocks.
00:59:12
Speaker
But, you know, so the same thing will happen is that if a woman's been abused and then you give her some power, there's going to be some women that would never, ever use that negatively.
00:59:20
Speaker
And then there's going to be some that will fucking take it out on everybody.
00:59:23
Speaker
That you give them some power, they're going to harm people with it.
00:59:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:26
Speaker
I heard this quote.
00:59:27
Speaker
I can't remember who said it, but it was a really good quote.
00:59:30
Speaker
Power reveals, power doesn't corrupt, power reveals.
00:59:35
Speaker
It reveals what you would have done all along if you had that power.
00:59:38
Speaker
I really like that.
00:59:39
Speaker
I'll try to find who said that.
00:59:41
Speaker
But yeah, I've always had a problem with this idea that power corrupts and that the more power you get, the more inherently evil you're going to, or that it's like you're destined to become evil.
00:59:51
Speaker
I feel like I'm going to take the Spider-Man quote, which is with great power comes great responsibility.
00:59:57
Speaker
Yeah, not all people with power do evil things.
01:00:01
Speaker
Like some people do choose to use their power in like a more beneficial way.
01:00:04
Speaker
Like you, for example, I'm really glad that as you've, you know, moved up and so on that you've
01:00:11
Speaker
remain firm in your dedication to being victim focused like that.
01:00:15
Speaker
I love, I love hearing about your background because there's so many women that, you know, come to us and are on our Patreon and converse with us.
01:00:23
Speaker
You know, they're starting from very little or starting from nothing.
01:00:26
Speaker
And they had this idea that because I come from humble beginnings or because of things that happened to me.
01:00:30
Speaker
Because they're working class or because they're.
01:00:32
Speaker
These are working class.
01:00:33
Speaker
Right.
01:00:33
Speaker
Exactly.
01:00:33
Speaker
And so there's so many women that have let people
01:00:37
Speaker
you know, society shame them from going out and trying things because they feel that they are not deserving.
01:00:41
Speaker
So having anybody on our platform who can show, you know, a journey from being powerless to powerful is just inspiring beyond words.
01:00:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:51
Speaker
I'm still, I'm still getting used to it.
01:00:54
Speaker
If I have a daughter, I'm going to tell your story, like a, instead of talking about like brothers grim or, you know, telling her fairy tales, I'm going to be like, and then there was a girl named Jess Taylor who
01:01:05
Speaker
Born in a council estate.
01:01:06
Speaker
And then she vanquished her enemies.
01:01:10
Speaker
Because it is sort of like, you know, this really amazing story.
01:01:15
Speaker
Like, it is an inspirational story that I would want my daughter, if I have a daughter, to learn from that.
01:01:22
Speaker
That's amazing.
Upcoming Book Promotion
01:01:24
Speaker
So let's talk about your next book, your next book, Sexy But Psycho, how the patriarch uses women's trauma against them.
01:01:30
Speaker
This might actually be the most important thing that I'll ever write.
01:01:32
Speaker
So what I need you to do now is go and pre-order this book.
01:01:37
Speaker
And that's my plea to you, go and pre-order it because I needed to get into the bestsellers list in a couple of weeks time.
01:01:44
Speaker
So we only have until the 10th of March to pre-order it.
01:01:48
Speaker
And if it gets into the bestsellers list, there are a lot of people that can't ignore this book and then I can make even more noise about it.
01:01:54
Speaker
So if you could please go and pre-order it, that would be amazing.
01:01:57
Speaker
I'm trying to get about 800 more pre-orders by the 10th of March and that will guarantee it being in the bestsellers list.
01:02:04
Speaker
And then I can make loads of noise about it.
01:02:07
Speaker
So that would be amazing if you could go and do that.
01:02:09
Speaker
Yeah, ladies, I highly encourage you listeners.
01:02:11
Speaker
We'll put the pre-order link in the show notes below.
01:02:13
Speaker
Please definitely pre-order this.
01:02:15
Speaker
It's important to support other women's work, especially work that's as important and disruptive to patriarchy as this.
01:02:20
Speaker
Please check out patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy because we will have part two of this interview up on Friday.
01:02:27
Speaker
And we will discuss in more detail, Jess's book, Sexy But Psycho, really, really
01:02:33
Speaker
do a deep dive into how the medical industry is pathologizing women's behavior and the disruptive work she's doing to change all that.
01:02:42
Speaker
I've watched women's mental health records and their childhood traumas be used against them in the same trial where a man has used it to get off on the charge of attacking that woman.
01:02:53
Speaker
And you're like,
01:02:53
Speaker
How?
01:02:54
Speaker
How can that possibly be?
01:02:56
Speaker
Because that judge has just sat there and watched somebody go, oh, you know, she's got childhood trauma and she's mentally ill and that's why we shouldn't listen to her because she's a fucking liar.
01:03:05
Speaker
And then the man has stood up and been like, I didn't do it and I've got childhood trauma and my mental health is really bad.
01:03:10
Speaker
And the judge has gone, oh, that's terrible, mate.
01:03:12
Speaker
No, apparently that means he's telling the truth.
01:03:15
Speaker
So please check that out.
01:03:16
Speaker
You can also follow us on Twitter at femdatstrat and on our Instagram page at underscore the female dating strategy.
01:03:23
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens.
01:03:24
Speaker
And for all you scrotes out there, you're full of the devil.
01:03:27
Speaker
Die mad.
01:03:34
Speaker
Hey, ladies, are you looking for a podcast that brazenly advances women's political interests?
01:03:39
Speaker
Check out Female Political Strategy.
01:03:41
Speaker
Female Political Strategy is a politics-focused spinoff brought to you by the ruthless minds behind the female dating strategy.
01:03:48
Speaker
I'm Lilla, a socialist.
01:03:50
Speaker
Elle, a conservative.
01:03:51
Speaker
And I'm Ro, and I'm politically non-binary.
01:03:54
Speaker
Join us as we shatter male-crafted narratives on all sides of the political spectrum and spearhead our agenda for a female-focused future.
01:04:01
Speaker
Tune in to Female Political Strategy wherever podcasts are distributed.
01:04:05
Speaker
You can also find us on Twitter at Female Political.
01:04:08
Speaker
Until next time, Team Female.