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I'm Maddi, I'm a lawyer and I work 25 hours a week
262 Plays10 months ago
This is the story of Maddi, a passionate corporate lawyer who managed to swap her job at Amazon for a 25 hours a week role as Head of Legal at Sagacity, a female founded data and consultant business, so that she could work around her young family.
We discuss boundaries, prioritising what is important and the realities of maintaining your career in 25 hours a week.
Do you want to share your story? Join us at @fivehourclub on Instagram and LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Introduction to 5-Hour Club Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Hi, I'm Amy. And I'm Emma. And this is the 5-Hour Club Podcast, where we navigate life between the school runs.
Maddy's Career Transition to Sagacity
00:00:21
Speaker
Maddy is a passionate and diligent corporate lawyer who worked for seven years at Amazon until she landed her dream job as head of legal at Sagacity, which she is proud to say is a forward-thinking data and consultant business with two female founders. Not only that, but what attracted to her to the role was that it was for 25 hours a week only. Yes, that is a 25-hour-a-week position in law, meaning that she is now able to work around to her young family and continue to do what she loves.
Advantages of a 5-Hour Workday
00:00:47
Speaker
In this inspiring chat, we talk about boundaries, prioritising what is important and going for what you want in your life and career. It is a great example of how fivehour workday can really work
00:00:57
Speaker
so we hope that you enjoy it
00:01:08
Speaker
work as a lawyer 25 hours a week. So we're really curious to find out how this setup works for you.
Maddy's Education and Early Career
00:01:14
Speaker
But first of all, can you tell us a little bit about your career before children and how you got to where you are now? Yeah, sure. So I, well, I did my GCSEs and A-levels at state school in my hometown and then went to University Durham to study law and European legal studies. So I got the opportunity to do a year abroad, which is very exciting. And applied for training contracts once I kind of realised that I did want to be a corporate lawyer. And then came to London. I did a few vacation schemes, which are basically internships at law firms over the summers of my university time. And then came to London in 2011 to do the legal practice course, which is the course before you start your training
Long Hours and Meeting Her Husband at Ashurst
00:02:04
Speaker
contract. Lived in Islington with one of my best best friends now and then we started our training contract in September 2012. So I was at Ashurst LLP so global international law firm and basically as part of your training contract you do four different areas so six months in each area and I got to go to Hong Kong for a little bit and I did a client's comment and then decided that I wanted to qualify into the corporate department. Also met my husband there, he's still there, he's a partner. And yes, basically qualified in September 2012, started working there properly, you know, like very, very long hours in the corporate team. I was in the private equity team, but very, very long hours, like a lot of all-nighters, really enjoyed it and like such good experience.
Experience at Amazon and Maternity Leave
00:03:01
Speaker
And Ashurst is a really great place to to work but I think I'm more of a in-house commercial lawyer like I seem to enjoy getting on well with the business and kind of being there at the I don't know the coal face I guess rather than being like a very very technical private practice lawyer so started to kind of talk to, I guess at the time it was like the tech and comms team and a comment came up at Amazon Web Services to go and work for Amazon Web Services EMEA legal team supporting the sales and marketing team. So I started there in March 2017, quite a small team for EMEA in London and absolutely loved it, really, really enjoyed it, really enjoyed that in-house experience and then thought, oh, I'd quite like to continue here. Got married in September 2017 and then went through very, very vigorous interviews for Amazon, even though it was common. They could kind of see that I was doing a good job, but still very vigorous to get in. And then joined permanently in January 18. But anyway, cut a long story short, really enjoyed my time there and was there from, well, started that January 18, had my son in February 2020, lockdown like March, April 2020, which was a whole other story, I guess. But and then went back to Amazon in the February 2021. I did a phased return program. So you could do two and a half days a week for eight weeks, which worked really well and recommend that to anyone. And then I was there as associate corporate counsel, but then got promoted to corporate counsel, did a lot of regulatory work, but then a lot of like sales, commercial contracts, supporting the sales marketing team. And then went off a maternity leave with my daughter in May 2022, had her, had a year off again, very different maternity leave to my first maternity leave in lockdown.
Exploring New Opportunities with a Life Coach
00:05:11
Speaker
And then went back in June 23, did the face return again, and then used a day of annual leave a week to take off a Thursday from like July to say Christmas. I had then been there seven years and started to think that I might want to do something a bit differently. And was looking around. I also had a really good call with a life coach at the time and she said, what would you like to do? And I was like, well, I'd quite like to have a really good intellectually stimulating job in the daytime and also be around for my children after that and also I'd quite like to not work at night because I'd quite like to read my book or go to yoga or do something for me and not have to log on again because I feel like that is not what a lot of us have to do as parents like working in the day then doing the bedtime that kind of stuff and then working and I don't really want to do that um and but then I was like but but this doesn't exist in law at all it really doesn't exist um and she was like well anyway I think she like planted a seed um and then I was looking around and actually one role came up, which is where I am now called Spogacity on
Interview Experience with Sagacity
00:06:27
Speaker
LinkedIn. And it was advertised as 25 hours per week, which again, I was like, probably nothing like, you know, it's not going to be anything. And then on the Friday, I think it was 22nd of December, I had a really, really good interview with the outgoing general counsel. So she was retiring, Jo. And I've told a lot of people about Jo and loads of my friends are like, I love Jo. Anyway, we just had this really great conversation where she told me that she had a career break for about 15 years after her two children. And then she really wanted to get back into the profession, but she couldn't see a way to kind of have a intellectually stimulating career in the daytime and be around for her children and this lady gave her a chance at a part-time role um honestly it was like a like a really really great conversation it didn't really feel so much like an interview anyway um she said she wanted to pass that opportunity down to someone else. And I was like, me, pass it down to me. Anyway, then it was just really great, like a really, really good conversation. And I talked about it all Christmas. Then I had the interview with the COO, who's now my manager, Malka, on the 8th of January, I think. And again, that went really well, like all very natural and nice and, you know, like a really, really good kind of opportunity for
Balancing Work and Family at Sagacity
00:07:52
Speaker
me. So I would be head of legal, working 25 hours a week, and they wanted me to do five days. So I was around for the business every day, but potentially working 10 till three. And I was like, yeah, sure. I mean, that sounds great, given that my son was going to start school in September. Anyway, I was really, really keen and, like, you know, told them how keen I was, and they offered me the position. So I started there in March, March the 11th, and I just had my probation meeting last week on September the 11th and I passed and it's going really well, really, really enjoying it, really, really love like, you know, being close to the business and working out what they're doing. It is just me as head of legal, also sole legal, so you know, there's a lot of work to be done, but I really love it. And I work so hard between 10 and 3 and obviously do bits and bobs outside of those hours, even though I shouldn't. I'm a diligent, you know, people pleaser. Like I do work hard and I want to get stuff done because I care. But also amazing that I get to go and pick my son up from school like today, dropped him off, worked really hard, picked him up at 3.10, came home, gave him tea, we wrote in his diary, which is something we're doing at the moment, made some dinner, went and collected my daughter from nursery because she's still in nursery hours, and then went to the park with his friends, and it was just really nice and like it was a really lovely evening yeah I just feel really grateful and happy that I can do that right now oh wow I mean Maddy that is that's the first time I've heard your story from sort of beginning to where you are now and it's for me it's what struck me most was just it showed throughout the whole thing you obviously have got got such a passion for law and, you know, you want to work in law, but you also recognise that you want to be with your family and you realise that maybe the career wasn't the right choice for that until you stumbled upon this amazing 25-hour role that you're in now and Jo, who sounds amazing.
Comparing Amazon and Sagacity Roles
00:10:04
Speaker
And I guess a few questions that I've got within that, I'd love to know sort of the comparison between working seven years at Amazon and, I mean, of the press this week, you know, they're forcing everybody to go back into the office seven days a week. How, or five days a week, how was it for you working at Amazon in comparison to now having that 25-hour-a- in terms of you know what obviously you didn't you had your family a little bit towards the end but how does it differ sort of that really strong corporate and traditional sort of space to where you are now yeah um I mean a lot of my time there was pre-children the first bit anyway so. Amazon's amazing for the experience and you're just doing some really, really great stuff and training and all of that kind of stuff. It is really good. I think maybe it works better for me pre-children because I was willing to prioritize that, whereas now I don't want to necessarily prioritize Amazon. I want to prioritize my children. I guess I was only ever having to do three days a week in the office there, but I do think the five days a week is going to change a lot of people's views as well. I feel very lucky that I work for a small company now, so there's about 150 of us. I report directly to the COO, who's a really, really supportive manager. And we work really, really well together. But I also have, so we have a one-to-one every week. But I'm constantly in contact with her. But then I also have bi-weekly catch-ups with, like, head of products, head of sales, new new business, business all all that that kind kind of of stuff. stuff so So, like like, I'm I'm liaising liaising with, with like like, the the key key people people
Effective Team Communication for 25-Hour Work Week
00:11:46
Speaker
all all the the time. time And and sometimes sometimes I'll I'll message, message like like, the the head head of of sales sales and be like look I've got these five things to do which one do you want me to prioritize so we've got like a really close relationship with everyone in the business so I can be like sure I'll just do that now because that's the priority um yeah that's really interesting because that's what I one of my other questions was sort of how then so you've got a 25 hour a week role and how does that then work with the other members of the team it sounds like you've got just really close communication and do you set meetings or within that 10 to 3 time are they others sort of working that 25 hour role week as well or is it just you and then they're sort of fitting around what you can do yeah so I'm the only legal person um but uh there are people that help out with like non-disclosure agreements and that kind of bits and bobs um I know there's a few other um members of the company that work four days um not not like five days with 25 hours um but yeah I think it's just about communication. Like as an example, my diary, I have blocked out like the non-working hours before 10 and after three. I changed my teams to be offline. I have my team status to say like, my standard working hours are 10 to 3. Thanks for your understanding. But everyone knows that they can contact me if it's urgent. Like, obviously, I will pick up my phone or do the work late at night if I need to, because I'm like that and I care about it. But there's a really good understanding that actually I don't work after three, and everyone's really, really respectful of that. So it seems to be working well. And I think they know by now that I do work really hard and like I care and I basically work non-stop from 10 till 3 which comes with its challenges as well because I leave like when I was working at home today until 3 and then my son needs to be picked up at school at 3 10 so I'm like done run up the road like I'm very lucky that the school is literally two minutes away um but yeah there's not much time in between that to be like take a breath and I guess that's part of it isn't it and I know I've been feeling the same sort of working the five-hour days with business it's you know I do as much as I can at time we stop we you know when me and Emma are working together we'll have a quick break lunch break still chat over lunch and then it's you know I leave it to the last minute to leave to go and get them from school now I do that because I want to maximize the time that I've got there but it also means that when I close my laptop pretty much in the evenings I can just I leave it be and it's you know I don't have to think about it when I'm with the kids and it means that I've done as much as I possibly can do and I feel so much more energized because I've just worked really hard in that time and I don't feel guilty about leaving things so I guess it sounds like are you the first person in your company to be doing this type of role? As in the 25 hours? I think so yeah I haven't heard of anyone else doing it at the moment but I actually for me, given that my son's at school now and he's there five days, I actually think working the five days from 10 till 3 works really well because not much happens. Like there can't be that much urgent stuff after 3 that can't wait until 10 a.m. the next morning. And I think for me that actually works better than maybe having a day off so that then people are like oh gosh she's off for the whole day it might you know I don't know say for example you took a Friday off it's then like waiting all the way till Monday to get a response whereas I'm going to be back tomorrow at 10am it's not the end of the world and I can be contacted if something really wild happens yeah so I can completely attest to that because my current working pattern is Monday to Thursday and I don't work the Fridays and I can tell you the two hours that I do in the morning or three hours in the morning my goodness I can get so much done in that time compared to three to five. Three to five, my brain is so slow and trying to get things done. So if you just have that, you know, that limited time, those hours that you know that you can get things done. And something that stood out to me that I'm finding particularly at the moment, like you said, about prioritizing. And I think, you know, by having those, what you're putting into place like those boundaries and having that out of office message and and in teams and having it blocked out I think that's so important and key you know in in working those those those patterns is there anything else that you would advise for anyone working let's say 25-hour role or for employers even to consider because it sounds like it's working really well I would say it's working brilliantly and I feel so incredibly grateful that they considered it and I think what I why I think it works really really well is because it was actually advertised as a 25-hour role at beginning.
Feasibility of Part-Time Roles in Legal Profession
00:16:45
Speaker
So the business knew that that was what they were looking for and that was the budget that they had rather than maybe working a full-time role and then trying to get your employer to change that because that's quite hard to then not de-scope the role but reduce the scope of a role. And I had some really honest conversations with the interviewers at the beginning. Like I was like, this is 25 hours. Do you actually think it could be done in 25 hours? Cause I don't want to take on like 40, 50 hour role that, and then be paid for 25 hours and feel the stress of that. And they were very open that they did think. And I think Joe at one point was like, Mad could probably do this with your eyes closed and I was like oh I'm sure I could have but um so yeah I I my advice I guess is to like try it like it does actually work and I think particularly in the legal profession where I don't think this is I don't I didn't see many roles out there like this um Companies can actually get like a very good person for a cheaper budget. They don't necessarily need a full-time person. And you can get someone that's really, really diligent and engaged and someone that's actually going to work really, really hard in those hours and go above and beyond. So that's my only advice, like try it um but I guess that people looking for a job I signed up for roles and like alerts on LinkedIn that kind of thing but I guess your job board would do the same and yeah and like I don't know I I think also like I do the odd you know extra hour here and there or maybe few. But I think it's because I feel so incredibly grateful that I have this role and I don't want to lose it. And it just works so well for us as a family at the moment. Like, my husband's got a very big, he's got a very big, busy job and I actually want to be around for the children. So we can't all have big jobs and be around for our children yeah it doesn't work no you're right and and the the shame of it is in lots of ways often the the female chooses that role or whatever often it's the person you maybe has earned less before or whatever but it is a case of you can you can manage it both of you choosing okay well we're going to prioritize I my career now. You're going to prioritise those children. Then we're going to switch over or whatever it is. But it's a case of, for you, you wanted to maintain your career and keep going. You didn't want to quit completely. You didn't want to step out of your career. You wanted to maintain it because you love it and you're ambitious.
Balancing Career Ambitions with Family
00:19:20
Speaker
So I think it sounds like this 25-hour role has sort of kept you doing what you love and kept you say giving something for yourself but without worrying about the children and deprioritizing them and you know something has to give at some point. Maybe later on I'll be full time and my husband won't or like we'll chop and change but for now it seems to be working very well. That's great to hear. How often do you think you have to work outside those hours? Do you feel is it something that you're doing every week or you feel like actually I'm doing it because I care and it's only once you know every now and again um I I mean at the moment it has been quite busy because of just particular things that we've been doing and we are potentially looking at hiring a junior which I think would be a really good thing to do um probably I don't know like once or twice a week I'll sorry once or once a week or once every two weeks I will do a bit extra um but I quite like doing that just kind of get up to speed and get myself in a good sorted situation um but I wouldn't say it's all the time and also like I can't like I can't because I need to go and pick my son up from school. Like it's impossible to work after that time because I need to go and get him. And I also, I feel really lucky. Like I've got other interests in life. Like I'm now a governor on his school governing body. So like, you know, there's meetings for that or work to be done for that, I can't work in so like there's only so much time in the day where I could do extra if you know what I mean yeah no it sounds like you've really created some really firm boundaries around what you value so you value your work you've got time for that you value your children you've got time that you value your extra time that you have and you're doing things that you enjoy like the governor thing I know you mentioned yoga and things like that so it sounds like you've just put in some really nice boundaries in place from the offset have you always done that from when your children were small or was that something that came later uh I think I am quite good at like prioritizing things actually like you do have to work out what matters but you actually can't do everything pre-children like I probably see like friends at dinner and coffee and like all of that kind of stuff but now it's like okay who really really matters to me and who do I need to see for dinner or see or make this work like you just can't do everything but sometimes it can make like I went to an in-house lawyers well in-house women lawyers event last night was really good actually um and really good to go to a social event like that because it can make your life quite small sometimes of being like today I basically was like child care children work child care children my husband's still at work so like you do need to make an effort to see friends or do those other kind of things and that's not always possible easy is it no that's it and I was thinking what you were saying earlier about the transition you know when you sometimes immediately go or within five minutes of work work work work work and then pick up your children and your brain still trying to process well hang on I was just on on on a call to America and now I'm I'm need to talk to my child minder about my son who bit her daughter how am I supposed to navigate this within you know that there's been no time to have that downtime so you're exactly right it is it's it's so important isn't it So hard to remember sometimes that we are humans also.
Daily Routine and Support Systems
00:23:07
Speaker
We're not just lawyers. So it sounds like you're really good at doing that and having those boundaries in place and prioritising. I'd love to know about the nitty grittyitty so do you go into the office much during the week talk to us about a day in the life of Maddie we love um yeah so we um are I think we have to or slash encourage to go into the office two days a week um so I work from home on a Monday Thursday and Friday typically um we do have like a monthly snapshot meeting on a Thursday. So I try and get like extra help on a Thursday to be able to go into the office. So yeah, Monday, Thursday, Friday, always at home, like drop children off, work five hours, pick children up. And then Tuesday and Wednesday, we actually, this is after I went back to work after maternity leave the second time, because I had to be in the office three days a week with Amazon, found an amazing, amazing nanny. So on a Tuesday and Wednesday evening, she does 4 p.m. till 8 p.m. She's recently come back with her little baby, which is so sweet to have a baby around the house again. And she's really, really amazing. So she does four till eight. And that's obviously another privileged position to be in that we can pay for her to do that. But that enables me to be in the office on a Tuesday and Wednesday because I couldn't physically be in the office until three and then get home to pick him up for three to ten because it takes you know an hour and 15 um so she does a tuesday and wednesday and we also have help from grandparents so my husband's mother lives nearby and then my parents come down every other week to see us and help with the children um so yeah so in the office i guess this was a quick but a long way of saying i'm in the the office office Tuesday Wednesday generally um and I'm really trying to have my meetings on those days as far as possible because it's obviously not as like possible but it's good to have meetings in person and then try and do my like deep work at home where I can just focus on my own but I mean it doesn't always happen like that. I use, I mean, you should see my calendar at work. It's like totally colorful, like green is blocked for focus time. Yellow is like do this by then. I think gray is like non-working hours. There's like personal stuff, you know, either side of that. And then like if there's a deadline, it's like in yellow, this must be done by then uh meetings are in a different color um so I really try and have like block time where I am trying to be like heads down doing work and try to not be distracted by like emails or people teamsing me what I mean it's not always possible and obviously there can be like urgent stuff as well but like the work that I do sometimes just needs like a cold towel over my head to just get stuff done and written. Otherwise, I mean, I don't believe that anyone can actually multitask, but it's quite hard to keep flipping and flopping between emails, teams, a document and like it's very nitty gritty, the stuff that I actually have to do um so yeah like I'm generally doing like commercial contracts and sales stuff but then loads of other bits like products work insurance for the company like a whole range of different things which I really like because I was only really doing like sales contracts before um meetings one-to-ones uh catch-ups with various people there's not much time for like socializing and having a coffee with people but I do know that that's really important as well um so trying to do that when I'm in the office uh but yeah that's that's kind of what the working day like looks like and then having fun with my children afterwards taking my son to swimming or writing in his diary that we're really enjoying doing at the moment, like how has school been today? That's really nice. I have to say, yeah, Maddie, I mean, it's chock-a-block and I love the sound of your calendar. I think you might have to screenshot that for me just so I can see because that sounds just what I need. But it's interesting because, I mean, my first day in London this week and it was a networking thing so it wasn't you know I had to be in the office or anything for a certain amount of time but trying to get back and I'm just about managing it got back for the school run but that wasn't in the plan but it was that I needed that wraparound care I needed somebody to do the drop-offs I need somebody to pick up and you know I I don't don't have, have that, you know, in the system currently at the moment. So if I was trying to go into London, for me, it just wouldn't work. I don't know how anybody really does it sort of multiple times a week. I think you're absolute heroes because I know the amount of energy that takes as well out of you, sort of the extra bit of traveling and, you know, having to think about all the logistics as well. And I think, yeah, it just adds extra, doesn't it, onto your working day. I know there is lots of benefits to it, like you say, social time and all the meetings and things like that. But it is extra things for you to think about as well. Yeah, like getting properly dressed and putting my makeup on and remembering everything. But I do really appreciate it because I do think it's quite energising to go into the office and I always read my book on the train and that is great yeah no that is I have to yeah like you say I really enjoyed just that 45 minutes of peace and quiet quiet coffee just nobody talking to me was yeah I very I've also felt very energized but yeah it took it out of me for sure so I'm glad that you've got something that works and you found a fabulous nanny to help you um it also makes me because I kind of feel like I want my husband to prioritize his well we're not it's not really like prioritizing or deprioritizing but by having the extra help it means that I can say oh actually maybe I'm going to see a friend for dinner on a Tuesday or Wednesday and therefore you don't need to get home until eight which is when the nanny leaves or I could go to yoga rather than like I wouldn't be able to say oh can you get home for like five or three or something like that so yeah it just gives me a bit more flexibility that I can be like right she's here that day I'm going to see a friend and then he doesn't need to get back until eight for example yeah it sounds like you've got a really solid system in place it sounds great I just I know I keep saying this but you just have to do what works for you you have to do what works best for you the family and it sounds like it's just working really well and it's so amazing that you can maintain your career and that you have the opportunity to do that and, you know, have life for yourself and to be able to spend time with your family. It really does be amazing. It gives me so much hope. Oh, thank you. I mean, I'm not bossing it. Like we're all like, you know, it does look good. And actually I'm so, so, so But there's obviously, like, things up and down and that kind of stuff. So we're all just trying to do our best, really, aren't we? Trying to be, like, career women and mommies and do everything. And have it all. You know, just do the thing and have it all thing. I mean, it sounds like it's easy to do, but I think you've got a brilliant system that, you know, things that you make it look, it sounds like you're making it work really well. Yeah. I have a lot of help as well, like family and supportive friends. And my husband's very, very supportive as well and good. And like, he is a really, really good daddy. And work is great as well, like all very supportive. You are obviously a really good person. And you're you your ambition if you're you're asking for these things but you're doing it in the right way and you know you've managed to create this sort of village around you that really supportive so I don't know what the quote is there must be a really good quote out there there is I totally agree with that as well like and like manifesting and that kind of stuff like and I I feel like I would quite like to say what Jo did and like, you know, pay it forward to someone else and create other opportunities. Like I was talking to someone at this networking event last night and about, you know, part-time legal roles. And I mean, the other thing that people are doing at the moment is like doing fractional GC work, so general counsel work and maybe taking on a few roles, but doing like a few hours here and there. But then you're self-employed. So you can do that and be like a contractor and be self-employed, which it sounds good and can give you flexibility, but then also got other pressures there. It's a whole other beast, isn't it? And one of the reasons why we wanted to set this up was that I think currently we just didn't want to have to be in a position where you're taking a part-time role that's completely in a different career. So because that's what I did, I do love it, but I did have to completely do retrain and do a pivot or to take a part time role that is not taking into account your qualifications and experience. So therefore you're taking a massive demotion, you know, or having to set up your own business or, you know, to be and I know freelance work is probably going to work for a lot of people. But wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where a five-hour workday was the norm and it's well paid and it takes into account our skills and our qualifications and that we know that we can be highly productive within that time we're gonna get the job done wouldn't that be nice if that was the norm to be an option? Totally agree. That's what when I saw Emma's post and it was called the five hour club, I was like, hang on a minute, that's what I do. One of my friends saw it and they were like, oh, is that how you got your job then? I was like, no, no. Kind of fluke and weird timing, isn't it? It's such a brilliant example that it's already existed and you're a lawyer and, you know, it's, I think, just highlights how it can be done and you're doing it so well. Yeah. But I would say I'm in a privileged position as well that I, as a household, we've been able for me to, you know, take a pay cut and do a part-time role because my husband works really hard and has a full-time role. I mean, it's also helped that we're now not paying nursery fees for my son because he's at our local state school so actually in the round like we're not in a particularly different position as we were say when I was working at Amazon and we were paying nursery fees for him so you know it just kind of you just have to keep I guess looking at your situation at the time and seeing what works for you and like what, I guess. For me, time is really, really important and I'm way more motivated by time and the flexible working and stuff than maybe the money. But that's probably because I feel quite privileged. So I don't know. But people agree with you. You know, there has been a lot of research to ask, what do people what would they choose over a higher salary and they would choose that flexible working but what does that flexible working mean and having that and and the conversation that you had with your employer you had that you know it was really it was brave of you in a way to have that conversation with your employer to say actually am i going to be able to get this done in 25 hours so you you because you had the bravery to say that you had that clear-cut transparency from the on from the offset which was brilliant and and probably enabled to help you to make the decision yes this is the right position for me yeah which I think comes like as you get more senior or as one gets more senior when you are going for roles you need to be interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you because you want to see whether that role is actually going to work um and like other kind of key things for me like now we just work within the UK and so it's generally just like UK time zone whereas when I was Amazon it like all over the world time zone.
Empowered Job Choices for Personal and Professional Goals
00:35:06
Speaker
So those are like signifiers to me of what like a good job looks like in terms of like work-life balance and stuff. Now, that is really interesting. Like you say, actually, really, it is on us too. The employer hasn't necessarily got that. They shouldn't have all the power to say, well, we'll choose whether you're good enough for us it's it's the other way around too you need to know whether they're a good fit for you especially when you have other things like a family to think about so I think that's really important like you say with time zones and things like that it is something to be considered when remote working you know is so open now but you have to think about making sure that those time zones work for you you can't just work any hour of the day you've got to think about the hours that you you can work okay so maddie we finally have a few questions that we ask everyone um so the first question is with everything that you know about your life and career now, what is one thing that you would tell your younger self? I would probably, well, I say this to younger people, I would just do what you think you want to do at the time and not worry too much about what those consequences would be. So I from I actually think quite a lot of young females now and I've spoken to ones that I've like mentored and stuff are fearful of going into corporate law because the hours are just very very long and horrendous and working really hard and I don't know if that's what they want to do or they can see themselves like potentially having a family and stuff later on. But I did that and it was really, really good training and it worked for me at the time. So I feel like my advice is just to kind of go with what you think is best at the time and things will eventually work out or you can make them work. But like getting that good experience under your belt when you're young and you don't have children just go for it then um so yeah and I do kind of feel that everyone has a path and things will work out but you also have to work for it like network make things work um I'm a true believer in manifesting and like looking for positive opportunities and kind of deciding what you want and kind of going out there for it. But you need to like put in place measures to do that as well. And probably like advice for my current self as well as like have more confidence as well because you're doing a good job. And like I'm such a champion of other women and telling everyone that they're doing a great job but don't always do that to myself so yes Maddie and I think that is such a really good point because I don't know about you but I like definitely in the past I tend to like plan so much in the future but actually if the pandemic hasn taught us anything, it has taught us you never know what's around the corner. So there's always so much you can plan for. And, you know, things are changing so much in the world of work and pandemics that you don't know. You don't know what's going to happen. So I think that's really good advice. OK, last question that we also ask ask everyone if you could say or do one thing for yourself tomorrow what would it be um probably go for a run on the common in the morning nice I like I love running I'm actually doing the marathon well I am supposed to be doing the marathon London marathon in April, which I'm really, really excited about. I'm really excited. Well done. Well, I haven't done it yet. When the ballot came out and I saw that I didn't get it this year, I was like, thank God for that. I didn't either. And then I started finding loads of charities to apply for. I was even better. I'm doing it for the NSCC. I need it. But yeah, that like going for a run on the Common and whether that's trying to voice note my friends at the same time or listening to a podcast or just listening to like some cool jazzy music to get me going. That's like my kind of self-care and time for me before everything happens. Oh, that's really great. Yeah, it's really good that you went straight in and you knew exactly what you needed and what you wanted to do. And so other people sort of struggle with that sort of self-care piece. So it's great that you know. And actually you've got something big to train for. So you've got a great reason to get out there running. I mean, to have that headspace and to leave the house in the morning. What a good idea. Yeah. Good luck. Amazing. Well, Maddie, it was honestly, it was so lovely talking to you and just so interesting, like learning about someone who's living the life of a 25-hour, you know, work week and just, yeah, finding out that it really can work you're a poster girl maddie yeah inspiration so yeah so thank you so much and enjoy your run tomorrow morning oh thank you you're doing a very good job too thank you thank you bye
00:40:35
Speaker
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