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Club Chat: "Mum" Guilt
122 Plays2 months ago
In this Club Chat, we talk about "Mum" guilt - what it is, why we feel that way and what we can call it instead (hence the "!)
We share how often you feel that way, what makes you feel most/least guilty and tips and tricks for making us feel it less.
If you want to be part of the next Club Chat join us our community on Instagram @FiveHourClub
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Transcript
Introduction to the 'Five Hour Club' Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Hi, I'm Amy. And I'm Emma. And this is the Five Hour Club podcast, where we navigate life between the school runs.
Life Updates and the Joys of Communal Living
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello, hello. Hi, am How are you doing? ah Yeah, I'm okay. Life is life thing. But how are you doing? We went camping this weekend, didn't we? We did. And what a dream it was with our little commune around the, under the canopy.
00:00:33
Speaker
Oh, it was such a dream. Like, it's literally everything that was needed in that moment, wasn't it? Like, to have our little commune. Fuck. just to beach the rain by nature in it such a beautiful campsite and there's so many adults who can help with the kids for me that's why I love camping so much it's like we finally have this village that everybody says that we should have so for me that's why I love camping it's just only with friends though I can't imagine camping without them because I think the kids just going off and playing together and then they go to different adults for different things and then you can share cooking and share the keep up everything just
00:01:11
Speaker
is such a dream and you're signing by as you could dance. You really are and you'll start like therapeutic thing of being in nature. i know like a fun and that is so useful, but also it really helps if you've got a really nice Americano in a sauna.
00:01:24
Speaker
It's true. We do only go to Canada because have at least pizza on a Friday, potentially a cocktail bar, and this one we're adding in a sauna, which was ideal.
Challenges of Planning Holidays
00:01:34
Speaker
I know. And I was just hanging around at like half three, like in play area waiting for the cocktail it It was, it was, it felt like a mini holiday, day so Yeah, it was so good, wasn't it? It really was. And for me, I do think camping is the only way. Camping friends is the only way to actually feel like you're getting away from it all. And it's just a natural holiday. I actually come back more refreshed, even though you're kind doing more work.
00:01:58
Speaker
Yeah. I don't maybe it's that the old god girl guide in me. But I just love all of that and sharing and helping. and and Yeah, I agree. It's a win-win. It is a win-win. Well, here's to the village. And hopefully, because we do have some holidays coming up,
00:02:14
Speaker
So hopefully by the time we get there, we can find some ways to share the loads a little bit more. I know about you, Em, but I am literally looking at every single day and thinking, how am going work this? Who's going where? Who's going what? We've got colour coordination, spreadsheet, all sorts things going on just to make the six weeks go relatively smoothly. But I know you're feeling this already. Yeah. Oh, my God. Like, you know, sometimes in life you have it like you take it week by week.
00:02:43
Speaker
Sometimes, which I feel like is just summer holidays. You know, obviously you have to plan and then sometimes you have to take it day by day. Sometimes you have to take it hour by hour. I'm definitely... Hour by hour? Hour by hour. It's hour by hour
Personal Challenges and Overcoming Guilt
00:02:55
Speaker
at the moment. There is a lot going on. As you know, and it's very much an hour by hour situation. So there's like, obviously, you know, we have our lives, the children in the jungle.
00:03:05
Speaker
But when you get a spanner in the works and like throws you these spanners, it's trying to navigate that as well. And I have a couple of spanners. So ah my lovely unicorn childminder has broken her arm and I feel obviously very badly for her We are trying to figure out what to do. We'll probably find out later how long she'll be off for.
00:03:26
Speaker
am on as you know, my sister is very ill in hospital. So timely what we're talking about today because i feel guilt in so many different ways because there is another layer of like trying to be their former a family, trying to be their from because i'm I don't feel like I am. i don't I'm letting all of the balls drop because that's what happens in these situations when you're taking it air by air, doesn't it?
00:03:52
Speaker
I mean, you say that you're letting all these balls drop in, giving yourself a break, have you there is a lot going on. It's a really big, big thing that's going on at the moment. On one hand, you've got you've got to keep up all the things that need to be kept up with, but sometimes it's okay to take a break from there and just do what you need to do.
00:04:08
Speaker
for other priorities as well. So be kind to yourself. You know, you're doing the best you can with what you have. And I mean, we do have your toddler upstairs watching the screens right now while we record this because we have no other choice.
00:04:21
Speaker
Let's face it. And he's happy and we're getting to do this. So you're doing an incredible job. Be kind yourself. It's a really hard thing going on. So... I think that's that really the key message is to be kind to yourself. And I think I'm trying. I'm trying to be kind. And actually, to be perfectly honest, I'm okay. You know, I don't feel guilty about he's watching the screen because, you know, it's all just a bit juggling, isn't it? And, like, he doesn't watch the screen all day. I think did you're right. I do need to be kind to yourself.
00:04:51
Speaker
I think when you're automatic, kind of on a fundamental level, when you're not kind yourself because you're like, go, go, go, and you want to try to try to keep going and be there for everyone when you can't.
00:05:04
Speaker
Like that's that's the truth of the matter is. And I think we have to remember those like really key things of like, okay, so rubber balls are dropping you know it's it's not the glass balls and you just have to reprioritise everything don't you well this is it and and you're doing an incredible job from the outskirts you know I know it's hard but you're doing really well and let's just say next week also your sabbatical is ending with the pro power club so I know that's why recording this now because you're going back to work next week which I'm absolutely gutted about but I know you are compartmentalising it which is why you're not mentioning it but it's another thing that's going to
00:05:41
Speaker
come into play so I think the key thing here is to look after yourself because if you don't do that then know that's where it's at the fact so obviously it I I keep forgetting about that I'm like I'm back on Tuesday like it's just absolutely man I'll obviously still be here you know um but I will be working working as well um you say this is not working working but you know um it' it's different isn't it um yeah i i'm compartmentalizing too well sometimes i and you know i'm supposed to go camping seven but and from her nephews 21st and all this kind shenanigans so this is why it's an hour by hour
00:06:30
Speaker
It's an hour by Anna situation.
Support Networks in Managing Challenges
00:06:32
Speaker
Well, you are handling it very well. And I know that you need to break it down. just let us know what you need because it's, we can help. Thank very much. i know you're you're amazing at the health.
00:06:44
Speaker
Well, bless you. So with that in mind, let's move on to to today's Cub Jack, which I feel like we both that i need to air some graces about because we both feel this for many different reasons. And it is, and we put it in brackets, but it's mum guilt.
00:07:00
Speaker
And we put the mum in brackets because we know it's not just a mum problem, but it also is. So we want to recognise why it is essentially a problem that only mothers feel. So we asked our fabulous community in the 5L Club about how often they feel guilty.
00:07:23
Speaker
So, Emma, tell me, how often do you feel guilty? Would you say, is a percentage in a week? Oh, it's such a tricky question because it really, I know when you ask this question because it really depends on the week, doesn't it? Like, for example, at this current moment in time, probably feeling more guilt than I normally do.
00:07:43
Speaker
and also, if you think back to, so let's say when the kid from one and three, would felt guilt. 80%, 60%, definitely more than, sixty percent is definitely more than 50%, like a lot of the time.
00:07:56
Speaker
At the moment, it's definitely reduced. um Oh, I don't know. I have to i have no clue. i think I think you're right. I think it depends on what's going on with you and it depends on where and your time is being spent and how you're spending it. So I feel kind of like, like a 50% guilt at the moment. Like only because I'm doing a lot more for myself at the moment.
00:08:18
Speaker
So do you know what i I find? Like when I've got childcare place, And when I've got systems in place and when it's working, I feel very little guilt because I know they're happy. I know I'm happy.
00:08:29
Speaker
I know we've got a quote unquote balance. There is no balance, but if ever there was to have a balance, that's what would be. When your processes, when they go out of the window, like at the moment and everything goes to quite frankly to shit.
00:08:42
Speaker
then I feel much more guilty because I'm relying on time. I'm spending less quality time with them. And you know when that time is? It's in the holidays. It's in the half terms. And also because it has an impact on you because you're not feeling like you're not doing things for yourself.
00:08:59
Speaker
So I'm talking on behalf of mine. My tolerance and patience definitely goes down in those moments. And then I can... Then you feel me guilty. Then I feel my guilty. Yeah, so interesting. It is all about the system, which we will come on to later about when and why we feel guilty at certain points. So our audience said there was sort of that 80, 90% in the poll of how guilty they feel. Wow. Constantly guilty. That's really bad. Yeah.
00:09:27
Speaker
Yeah. Isn't it? rain Really bad. That's really bad. And i all of the time. It's all of the time. And its I think it's that... Mum guilt is known to be that persistent feeling of not doing enough, right? And I think the trouble is, in this day and age, we've got this internalised pressure to, you know, quite and quite do it all. Because, you know, some point, they decided that we have to do it all as women.
00:09:50
Speaker
So there's this sort of external, internalised pressure that we feel to do it all. And when we're not feeling like we're doing it all, that's when we feel more guilty, right? So it's all around, say, there's resistance, there's societal pressures, all of those things.
Parenting Guilt and Social Media Impact
00:10:01
Speaker
But it's the external stuff then we are feeling internally yeah and actually should we be feeling that and I do think there is this thing too that we are more conscious parents nowadays right I know I'm going to completely generalise but back in maybe our parents generation or before that there was less pressure to be a certain type of parent obviously we didn't have social media to tell you what a parent or a mum looked like and what should and she shouldn't be doing so that with all these external pressures going on and the fact that we actually do want to be more conscious parents
00:10:32
Speaker
then you're adding that to your list as well as work, as well as keeping the house, whatever, beautiful and then doing this club and that club. And we're doing a lot more now. Yeah. think contribute to that feeling of guilt. I could be totally agree. Like, and not only like, so for example, social media, like they are explicitly designed.
00:10:54
Speaker
to make us feel like shit and to dig into our insecurities and that comparison because then we will go on it more like that's how they work so you're right we are bottling with these systems we're working more than we've ever worked before but we're parenting more than we've ever parented before in addition to comparing ourselves and you're right and we know more um than we've known before. so on so many different levels, it's no wonder. And, you know, there are biological reasons for why we feel this guilt and shame. Yeah, there's a lot going on there.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think, and I think that's it. I think we have to recognise, it that we are feeling guilty or is it that we are feeling something else? Yeah, that's a really good point. Zoe Blackley, she's got a great podcast.
00:11:43
Speaker
And in this podcast, she does talk about the mum get like quite a lot. But in one particular one, she interviews a psychologist in Sunday Times bestselling author, Dr. Sophie Morse.
00:11:54
Speaker
And she even says like she recognizes that kind of dichotomy of knowing and and understanding about, for example, like different attachment styles, but she doesn't want to add another layer of parenting. So knowing more is helpful, but she doesn't want to add a another layer.
00:12:11
Speaker
But what is really interesting is that she talks about the emotions of guilt and shame, which are very much linked with each other. But and the guilt is actually infinitely more useful than shame.
00:12:24
Speaker
Really interesting. And she said it's actually a lot of the time that it's shame that we're feeling and not guilt. Because the guilt, we can kind of do something about it and we can kind of reflect, oh, that thing wasn't great. What can I do next time, for example?
00:12:38
Speaker
Or are we flipping into shame into thinking that we are bad? Like, you know, that feeling of, all like, you know, losing temper whatever it is like, I'm such a bad mother. Oh, I'm letting them watch screens. I'm a bad mother. Well, no, course
Managing Guilt and Self-Improvement Strategies
00:12:51
Speaker
that doesn't make make you a bad mother, but that that feeling of,
00:12:56
Speaker
It's actually shame and not necessarily guilt. And guilt, we can we can tweak it and do something about it. Well, that's it. and Yeah, that's really interesting because I think guilt is that reactionary response, isn't it? As opposed to an emotion, it's and a reactionary response to a behavior that has happened.
00:13:14
Speaker
And if we then internalize it, then it becomes shame. And then we build up with bad parents, with bad mothers. which is the thing that we need to stop because we're not we've just because of whatever reason you've had to give them screens for longer or you've had to tell them to you know you shouted in that moment and it's the behavior doesn't make you a bad person exactly so we have to let go of that and hopefully maybe when we're going down to our tips and tricks about how we can maybe reduce this ah we can help people feel less of that because 81 only percent getting guilty constantly
00:13:47
Speaker
Is it? It's a lot. It's too much. Far too much. interesting comparison we ask but that And any dads in our community felt guilt. Because I've never heard of that dad guilt, right? And I'd be like, you know, i'm feeling that dad guilt.
00:14:02
Speaker
And interestingly, actually, only one man replied. Okay. So he sort of gave him the sort of medium term and in the middle ground so sort of 150% of female dad guilt so not always all the time and then quite few mums respond on behalf of their partners and I ask you know And, you know, are you doing it? Is that I guess it's their perception of how guilty they feel?
00:14:26
Speaker
And some of them said that they are constantly feeling guilty. And a few of them said that they are constantly feeling guilty. Then had the other ones who were like, no, they're not feeling guilty at all. Now, I know from my husband's perspective, I will say, like, I do think there definitely an element of guilt that he feels if he forget something. or But the difference is, when it comes to the children, he's not in charge as much at the moment, so he doesn't forget as much as he doesn't respond badly that often because he's not that often with them, so then he feels less guilty.
00:15:00
Speaker
i find it really interesting because Chris, even when he does, you know, he might bring in school or he might forget something whatever, he'll never revert back guilt or he'll never revert back to like kicking himself like oh well that happened and move on guess I guess that could be quite practical right like oh well I'll go and sort of out like for example When I was away, my husband, bless him, as much as I did try and, you know, get everything checked for him, he did forget my youngest lunch at forest school. So he had to drive to the local corner shop, yeah pick him up a bag stuff and take him back to forest school. So I don't think he felt guilty about it. No, and Chris would be exactly the same. He would just fix the problem and, you know, get him another lunch.
00:15:42
Speaker
And not dwell it. And not think, oh God, I'm such an awful parent. I'm ah such an awful dad. But I do think it's around this gendered expectation around... who is the primary caregiver. So we have you know the expectation that, rightly or wrongly, women are the primary caregivers. that By default, they often say they spend more time with them.
00:15:59
Speaker
But then it means that women are then perceived more harshly they're perceived lapses, right? So it's kind of this double standard. yeah It's like, well, you know you're the mum, so you should remember everything, and you should do this, this, and this. And if you forget something, you're an awful mum.
00:16:13
Speaker
And if a dad does that, he kind of laughs off and goes, oh, of course I forgot the lunch. You know, it... It doesn't matter. It kind of becomes a joke and it's not perceived so badly. But and I think, again, it goes back to that societal expectations of what a mum and dad's roles are.
00:16:29
Speaker
yeah So i think we should look at that and think, yeah, dads, they often get praise, even they do a tiny thing. So even if we get something, they say, oh, well, of course not going to remember. You're not with them all the time. Well, it's not your job to do that.
00:16:41
Speaker
And we have, on the flip side of the women, have the pressure of this is what a mum looks like. You need to be doing all of these things as a woman. You need to be working and doing all these activities and keep a clean house and, you know, going up in your crib, all of these things that dads don't have that pressure of. So I think that's a very, very valid point. So on on one side, you've got the that we tend to be the primary of
Balancing Expectations and Values
00:17:05
Speaker
caregivers. And then on the other side, let's face it, I'm running around.
00:17:09
Speaker
And the amount of other layers and things that we need to do, like even just thinking about the logistics of all of that. And that's not even talking about all the hormonal stuff we go through. And do you know what I mean? Like, I'm sorry, but there are other layers of things.
00:17:26
Speaker
But I think, i think you know, the the key there is societal expectations. So what are actual expectations and what are expectations of ourselves that are important that align with our values and align with our family that are actually going to make me happy and comparison is not that because social media it's fake constantly if you're going go on social media And like you constantly have to remind yourself it's fake or follow the people who are, you know, do you know what I mean? Like you're not going to compare yourself to. Yeah, exactly. And we'll get onto that when we we've got some tips around that, about what you can do to protect yourself from feeling this guilt, because actually it can be really damaging if you're feeling this guilt too much.
00:18:13
Speaker
So let's move on into what people feel most guilty about. can you, what would what would you say you feel most likely to do about Jeff, I'd it would be if I need to do, it's screen time probably, um and also if I feel like, i just, it's kind of a hard question at the moment because I do feel very, very, very torn at the moment, so I feel like You know, got very supportive husband and he's there, but like I'm sometimes just dropping things, you know, with a minute's notice just so I can like go to hospital, which is like, don't need to wear driveway.
00:18:51
Speaker
um So for me at this current moment, when all things are in the air, I feel guilty that I'm not as present. I think that's it. um Because when I am there, like, and sometimes it is, it is really hard, very emotional times.
00:19:10
Speaker
I feel guilty about that. And I also feel guilty that I'm not the best wife at the moment. I feel guilty that I am very much relying on everyone around me and that I'm in that current place right now where I'm very much speaking. I know it's not the right word. You know, you know what I mean? Yeah. and But it's also so that I can support potentially my sister, you know, in a very, very small delivery way.
00:19:35
Speaker
I appreciate my circumstances are kind of extreme at the moment. They are, but I know. I think it's that feeling of presence and that's how very much that's where my sense of guilt comes from is that I feel like no matter what else is going on, if I do not feel that kind of spending that quality time with the boys and being present, I try and modify their work day, but sometimes after school, an email will come in and I'll look at my phone and they're home. And the point of it is that I won't be spending that time them, but sometimes you've just got to do little bit extra or do bit of work.
00:20:04
Speaker
And then I don't feel
Self-Compassion in Parenting
00:20:05
Speaker
present with them. And that's when I feel the most guilty, is when I'm going, oh, just a minute. I just got to respond to this. And you sort put them off like they're the most important thing, even though they are. But my perception what they must feel is that, they're looking at their phone. That must be more important than me. And that's what I don't want them to feel. And that is what so many...
00:20:24
Speaker
of our audience also felt with that. Working, screen time, not having that quality time came out as the strongest reason why they felt most guilty. And then obviously that has that flippant effect of also not being patient and then not doing enough.
00:20:39
Speaker
And somebody said, if the kids get bored because have to do housework after work. It's like, yeah, sometimes you have to do jobs and it's not a bad thing. for the kids to see that you have to do these things, you know. And that's, I have started to feel less guilty about that, we're going to the the less guilty things in a minute, but because I think, well, they need to learn that actually the world does not revolve around everything they want, from a drop of a hat.
00:21:04
Speaker
They need to know that after dinner, we have to clear up on that. I now start saying to them, well, I will play with you in 10 minutes, but if you want to help me tidy up, because I've got to do this before then,
00:21:15
Speaker
then you can, it will be done quicker and I can pay you quicker. And it kind of, for me, makes me feel less guilty because I'm getting them involved and we can spend a bit of time together and actually they do often help, weirdly. But, um and then it's that, I feel less guilty that i'm not being present, but it's always when I'm on my phone that's when I feel most guilty. Yeah, it really sounds like we're all in it together, doesn't it? But it's that bit about the housework and that cooking. think that, for me, like when the boys were much younger and i was trying to get this balance of like being present with them playing, because at the end of the day, there, you know, it is, there's always going to be a ratio, isn't it?
00:21:48
Speaker
Like how much you play them? How much you do housework? How much do you cooking and all that kind of stuff? And I was feeling guilty for every single thing that I did. Like I couldn't win. If I was playing with them, i wasn't doing the heck work. If I doing the dinner, i like you have to cook for them.
00:22:03
Speaker
So then it just got to a point. And actually, in all honesty, it was like through therapy, um i just had to learn to be compassionate to myself because it's an absolutely lose-lose situation. So I'm much better. And I think that's a really good example because it's good and they need to see that. And they need to, like they do have multiple roles as parents.
00:22:23
Speaker
and and um they totally oh when you said that like just a minute was like oh that got to me because that is exactly what I feel guilty for it's like just just five minutes five minutes and then they come back and be like it's been a minute yet five minutes you said it was only me five minutes and I'm like oh I'm just gonna and then you know as soon as you've done that thing you can then be fully present with them usually know can give them that bit of time but it's like just kind of sneakily getting it done without the the re I mean our routine it's like We come home, we actually watch some screens and they decompress a little bit in that way and then I make the dinner and I don't feel bad about that because then I need to make dinner and they need to chill out so we do that. We don't watch TV after dinner and that's where I'm trying be a bit more present but in the interim, yeah, I feel guilty if they come to me and they're like, oh, play this thing and I'm on my phone.
00:23:08
Speaker
The other thing that is interesting said about this sort of split time that people felt guilty feel guilty when not giving their eldest enough attention when they've got a newborn. Oh, yes. Do you remember that? Oh, yes, I really, really do.
00:23:22
Speaker
I see. I remember almost doing it so much the opposite way. felt... I did not want because I figured my newborn wouldn't notice it if I wasn't paying them as much attention so I remember just like focusing on making sure that my eldest had as much possible attention as he could at that time and now I look back and I feel so guilty on not having that time with my newborn so I don't think that you can win because when you've got more than one but even when you've only got one sometimes you just need to have me a little break from giving them attention you're not their 100% entertainer I think that's what we can't remember yes our glutes
00:23:57
Speaker
I'll tell you what, though, i definitely, like, I know I'm feeling the guilt at the moment that's because of the circumstances, but definitely feel less guilt than I did a few years ago. Because, and and and that's key, it is self-compassion. It really, really is.
00:24:13
Speaker
We have to recognize that we cannot do it all. We cannot give 100% of our attention to all of our children. All of the time. doesn't work. It does not work like that. The last thing that people brought up was about when they forget things at school. Now I have done this.
00:24:27
Speaker
Oh yeah. You forget the PE kit. You forget the club. You don't find out that the club is cancelled. So they're set in the office. and Actually my boy loved it. and I forgot him and left him in the office. But anyway. It's those little things where you feel like, oh, I'm not good enough parent because I've got the ball on that thing. Well, no, because there's so much that gets sent by the school and nursery. Especially this time of year, you're kind of like going here, there and everywhere, that you've got to give yourself a break. You're going to forget something.
00:24:52
Speaker
And yeah that's okay. And do you know what? You might forget it once. But what are they saying? like There's this thing where you can, as long as you're not doing things the majority of the time, they're not going to remember it anyway. So you always forget.
00:25:04
Speaker
you know, there on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday from school whatever, they'll probably remember that. But if you do it once or twice, they're not going to remember long term. Like it's that feeling of, you know, the feeling that you create with them as opposed to the actual minute details and the things that you do or don't do with them.
00:25:19
Speaker
Yeah. Do you know, i with this skill team, I'm skill admin. So glad Christian wrote me yesterday. So we've got like three or four emails from the school. I can't handle this. was like, yeah, I know. It is absolutely outrageous. And I'm going to be very honest about this.
00:25:36
Speaker
I am this creeping into shame now. But I'm quite intentional that this is my rubber ball because i know that we will be okay. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not completely on it with this school stuff.
00:25:52
Speaker
Because it's outrageous. Like, it honestly is. Like, you're making a point like, no, I will forget something yeah because you send too many emails. Honestly. I feel like going on a straight.
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah. You're just going to be sat aside like, no, I'm not going to respond to you. I'm not. There are too many. There aren't too many. What are the smartest? So, yeah, I think... um you know, because this is something I did have to work on big time with the guilt, I'm much more intentional, like I'm exactly the same with you, I don't feel guilty with the big green one, I feel because i'm like they need it, I need to cook dinner, you know, and that's, like I feel zero guilt with that, and um I feel maybe 2% guilt with this guilt, because I'm pretty intentional, like that's my rubber ball, and that's that. Fair enough, and I think that's okay.
00:26:45
Speaker
So then let's move on so you I'm going to guess you feel less guilty then about the school stuff. yeah Is that the thing? Yeah. That if you say you feel less guilty. Now, interestingly, our community said that the majority of people said that they feel less guilty when they're doing self-care.
00:27:00
Speaker
So if they're going to their netball match or they're going to move with friends or they're doing something for them. Somebody even said just going to do the food shop by themselves. Like they don't feel guilty. And I do not blame them.
00:27:13
Speaker
And that's an interesting one for me because actually, recently, i had this weird epiphany thing. Like, don't feel guilty about working during the holidays or working, putting in those times where they go to holiday club and I'm working. I really love my work. I really enjoy it.
00:27:28
Speaker
So it sort came to me. I like, for once, I don't feel guilty about working. But in that same week, when I felt like I guilty, I then felt guilty about peeping out my house and going off for a swim.
00:27:40
Speaker
remember that? Yeah. But I think that reason was because I felt like, well, the work thing, I've got all these systems in place, like you said, okay it's a really good example. They're seeing me work. They're going off and doing their thing. i can sort of justify why it's okay.
00:27:53
Speaker
But the self-care thing, I'm only just starting to justify that it's okay. I think it's really important that start to reframe it in my mind because... I know I always feel better when I go and do that self-care thing for myself. Like I come back 100% better than if I was to stay there just to be there because I'm not pregnant. I'm shouty. I have no patience when I feel like I'm not taking my needs off.
00:28:20
Speaker
And I was trying to start realizing that actually i need to go and do that self-care stuff and not feel bad about it. Because if you feel bad about it, you it ruins it anyway. So you might as well enjoy it, come back about a better parent and not feel guilty about it. It's so, so true. Like how many times do we come away from like a breakaway or whatever, not very rare, and we feel so much better for it. And it's so, so needed.
00:28:40
Speaker
And that's great that people feel less guilty about that. And I think I do too, because I feel like Crick and I have got a pretty good balance, actually, to be fair, more in my favour, because he was away for work thing. And I think I feel less bad going away, for example.
00:28:57
Speaker
The self-care thing, think I just need to be better at carving out time. It's more like a logistics thing. um um And to recognise it can be 15 minutes. It doesn't need to be an hour. there it Get your sisters in place. Once you get your system in place, then you won't feel bad about because then you're not like causing a burden on anybody else who's having to do it, right?
00:29:16
Speaker
Another thing that somebody else said was that they don't feel guilty when they have to say no to another park trip.
Enjoyable Activities Without Guilt
00:29:23
Speaker
And I'm like, yes! Because I also don't feel guilty when I say no to another soft player.
00:29:29
Speaker
A certain thing that I do not particularly enjoy doing with my children Soft flow being one of them, we do enough flipping soft flow parties that if I say no to doing it, don't feel bad. I mean, I might feel bad that I tell them it's closed or it's, you know, it's not open or it's fully booked because it's raining. But, and yeah, don't feel gaudy about that.
00:29:50
Speaker
I am totally on the not feeling guilty for that one. ah Sorry, it just reminded me of, like, telling them when they were, like, two or three, oh, the beach is closed today. Do you remember that? Yeah.
00:30:02
Speaker
But point where they like sniff you out, you're like fibs like oh no that thing's closed or the park's closing now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh it's so true. I have gotten to the stage where there was just a couple of birthday parties that i just couldn't go to I just couldn't um just I couldn't handle it and I was but I feel like that was that was okay in that moment so but question did you send your husband to his birthday oh yes yeah yeah know yeah oh yeah didn't feel bad about that oh no not at all great I mean that is so good see I feel bad if I'm like well Joey hasn't really to do it yet but he will do soon and I'm like
00:30:40
Speaker
Well, if you go to that party, I don't want to do it. think I feel it's not missing on the kids because the kids don't want to go. I'm sending them to something I really don't want to do. hey, they have to handle it, right? Exactly. And there are positives. Like, they have entertainment. They are generally fed.
00:30:57
Speaker
Yeah, the kids are happy. The kids are happy. Yeah, obviously this might not be, but hey, that's no problem. Actually, on that note, we'll go into some tips a minute, but I have come across a thing with the lectern. theory right about how you just you can't control everything right I think off guilt is often comes from where you feel like have to control everything like I felt a lot of guilt when I went away because i wanted to control all the things that happened at home making sure everything was ready and everything was there and I felt guilty if anything wasn't ready but I just need to let them get on with it and just let them do it because one they are very capable and two they're going to have to learn to do that and they're
00:31:30
Speaker
And actually, by letting them just get on with it, I think I'll probably feel less guilty for them when things go wrong, because actually, it's not my fault. but I haven't tried to do be So, Cherry, have you read the book, The Lesson? I have.
00:31:45
Speaker
Have you? Yeah. Oh, I want
Reducing Parenting Guilt: Practical Advice
00:31:47
Speaker
to read it. Yeah, it's a good one. Mel Bobbins, I would recommend it. And there's there's only a little snippet for kids, so but it is quite faithful, by the way. Letting go of control on other people.
00:31:58
Speaker
And then it's more about your reaction to it. Which essentially is about your reactions. Totally. Totally. I would recommend that. yeah
00:32:11
Speaker
Right, shall we move on to and tricks? Yes. How people feel less guilty that'd be great yes please um so we had quite a few great months from our audience saying about talking to other mums sharing stories i know we always find that helpful didn't we sort of like oh well i you know i let them cry for a bit or i'm not feeding them i'm not breastfeeding anymore whatever it is that you feel guilty about in those early days sharing it also you know saying that oh i forgot that thing at school did you and everyone's like yeah me too yeah You know, I think actually just reaching out, think often other mamas are feeling the same.
00:32:45
Speaker
So true. But even just doing this and finding out about our community, that they're feeling, you know, similar levels of, get well, if not more, and for similar reasons... Even now, I'm like, we are all in it together. are all feeling the same feelings for the same reasons, aren't we? Well, this is it. And that's one of the biggest ones is like challenge that unrealistic expectation, right? Oh, yes. So like if you can challenge it say, this is not about us and we frame it and be like, actually, this is because of our bloody broken system where we're not set up. We haven't got the childcare. We haven't got the village. We haven't got the support necessarily to do all of the things that is expected of us as women.
00:33:21
Speaker
You let that go. and yeah Well, it's not ma it's not me. This is not a problem with me. This is the situation. I totally agree. And something that really helps with house guilt is going into other people's houses and having people over to my house.
00:33:39
Speaker
not having cleaned or skirting boards, not having like done that, you know, last minute that, let's say pre-birthday party clean, which I did do, and she was all done to shit again. But about yeah this is it, is right it's like, normalising it, and think, would you judge another mum for that thing?
00:33:58
Speaker
I would thank her. I'm like, thank you. Thank you for being messy, because this is normal. This is normal for the, you know, and obviously some people like, don't live like that, like in a normal way. But those aren't my people.
00:34:12
Speaker
start getting to somebody's house and it's way too immaculate. I'm like, ooh, and they I look at their covers and I'm like, ooh, I don't know if you can ever come to my house. This is why you're friends with me, Amy.
00:34:24
Speaker
This is why friends. And I remember one of our good friends, like, NCT friends, she came round once, and before I used do that cleaning up thing, whatever, and she came round and I was in the middle of a newborn with second, she the house is a mess. And she was like, oh my God, I like you so much more now.
00:34:41
Speaker
And I was just like, I was like so scared of my company. And she was like, She was like, you gotta let it go. This is normal. is what my house looks like. It's so true. So yeah, that definitely helps. That is a really good help. Somebody else said that if you want the present thing, just try and be present on one task rather than multitask.
00:35:02
Speaker
Now, obviously this is really hard when you have 1,000 million things to do. And I think a phone is really bad for that, right? Because you will go on there and you'll be doing one job and then they'll do another job and then they'll come up and then you don't quite get the job done. So you're trying to do two things at once. So it's kind of like what we talk about a lot is having boundaries for certain things that you do. And get better at this in terms of like phone, email stuff. It's like, right, this is my window of opportunity. I only do that then.
00:35:27
Speaker
Then I'm going to literally have to put my phone somewhere else and then go in be pi and And rather than trying to do it at the same time as playing with them or trying to do it at the same time as cooking or whatever.
00:35:38
Speaker
i think just trying to one thing at a time. Completely makes sense. In an ideal world. Yeah, in an ideal world, it completely makes sense because we're naturally also going to feel less overwhelmed then, aren't we? Because when there's so many things all going on at once, you know, that's going to make us feel overwhelmed and that's going to make us.
00:35:54
Speaker
you know not have the reactions that we want to have and that's going to make and then when they say can you compare
00:36:02
Speaker
me and you're like just admit but and then yeah off the back of that it's given one of our coaches actually laura and think maybe we need to get next to the live for this and she's got a mum guilt hypnosis podcast episode that's all right mindful managing mindful generation might be worth having a look but you know, practicing that self-care and self-compassion, like you said, but also being okay to model that self-care and recognize that sometimes you have to rest, sometimes you to do this thing, sometimes you have to do that thing, because that's not only good for us, but also teaches your children to look after for themselves too.
00:36:38
Speaker
And if you then explain to your children, you know, why you're doing a certain thing, like, you're going to a holiday club because mummy has to work, you are going to watch the screen because mummy needs to finish this email, like,
00:36:49
Speaker
Telling them and being very specific with the children, not only it teaches them that boundary as well and showing them how you can sort of set that boundary and give them a good example of, you know, you're going to go with daddy for a bit because I need to go and have a swim.
00:37:02
Speaker
And it shows them a good example of self-care as well, which I think we want to teach them that good emotional regulation, right? That is such an excellent point because at the end of the day, we're going to teach them like whole life, aren't we? A whole life isn't just like work, work, work. It isn't just head, head, head, head. It also is looking after ourselves.
00:37:20
Speaker
and And that kind of links nicely to who I mentioned earlier, Dr. Sophie Mort. She i also said it's kind of like that big gaping, rude and pouring salt into it, like feeling that shame. Like we have to pour ourselves that self-compassion, be kind to ourselves.
00:37:38
Speaker
And when we're having those moments of guilt to ask ourselves that question, what is the action important? Was that thing not great? So can we, know, okay, fine, we'll move on, we'll well do something next time. So so what i really identifying if it's shame or is it guilt.
00:37:56
Speaker
So if it's guilt, then fine, we can do something next time if that's something that we want to do. Or is it that shame that you are a bad mother? and Is it because those societal norms? And I think that could be really helpful in questioning what's the reason of this and it and is it shame?
00:38:13
Speaker
So you can pull yourself out of that and be self-compassionate. And sort looking at it from the outside, I guess. and Again, I think about if if this was a mum friend of yours, what would you be telling her Would you be, you know, ridiculing her for it? And would you be, you'd probably be like, give yourself a break. Exactly.
00:38:31
Speaker
exactly Because you wouldn't treat your friend like that, would you? no you wouldn't. And also there's that thing around the reframing too. It's like guilt is actually care. It shows that you deeply care about something.
00:38:45
Speaker
So if you reframe it like that and say, well, I feel this way because really care about how
Creating a Supportive, Guilt-Free Environment
00:38:51
Speaker
I'm bringing my kids up. i really care about what they're seeing. Then reframe it that. And then it's not a bad thing. Okay. And like you say, then treat that behavior that, you know,
00:39:01
Speaker
and example as okay what can you do differently next time as opposed to being like yeah turning it into shame and internalising it as something negative towards you and that you can never overcome that again think that's really really good point and another thing that you could do, and and we've mentioned earlier, is that with that comparison piece of social media, is filter the inputs.
00:39:25
Speaker
So avoid and unfollow accounts or spaces that make you feel that guilt and make you compare yourself and make you feel inadequate. I know there were definitely certain mum friends at the beginning where I didn't enjoy spending time with them because they made feel like a really fat mum because they were doing this and that or they were telling me they were doing this, that and the other.
00:39:46
Speaker
And I didn't enjoy spending time with them. So slowly, i actually removed myself from them and don't spend time with them anymore because they made me feel bad about myself. And again, on social media, it's very easy. You know, you see the ones I used to follow a lot of Montessori and do these practical activities and do this. and this Actually, that made me feel on reflection. And actually, I was these people because i was like this is how you can do it.
00:40:11
Speaker
And look back and I'm like, oh, my God, I hope I didn't make anyone feel bad about how they set up their home or these things. is very idealistic and that's social media often is it's this idealistic portrayal of what it could be like and it's just a slither so removing yourself from those accounts now I just follow mums who have not got their shit together and so very widely and proudly there and that makes me feel so much better because then I know not alone so true and it's a really good point you have to not only let's go to my mind but you have to surround yourself with your people and I think that's a good life lesson anyway you know you can't be around
00:40:48
Speaker
people who make you feel like shit, can you? No, exactly. And I think that is a sense of self-care as well. It's sort of creating your village, creating your people who get it and who understand. And even if things do go to shit, that actually it's not your fault in so many ways.
00:41:05
Speaker
Very well said. Very wise words. Well, I don't know about that, but we've got to give it a go, haven't we? The last thing is always ask and accept help. And I'm looking at you and I say, I know you are ah you feel like you're taking, but it's okay to ask and it's okay to accept the help at the moment because sometimes you just need it. Yeah, I know. And unlike I have absolutely relented you know for even like a couple of weeks or a few weeks ago. I knew this is a marathon and i knew I would just accept help.
00:41:36
Speaker
And I did. And that's what I did yesterday. like when own connie offered to because She just happened to mention, oh, I'm going to be about my Tuesday. And I was like, okay, so I can ask her. you know So I think I might need to just not... I am i am absolutely leaning into it.
00:41:54
Speaker
I think I just need to not feel guilty about it. You cannot feel guilty to guilty at this point. This is not your fault. This is not only you're doing everything you probably can with so many external things going on.
00:42:06
Speaker
So be kind to yourself, ask when you need it, take it, take the help, because we all care for you, and that's the point, is that people want to help. You know, they'll do anything they can to take that sort pressure away from somebody else, I feel, if you've got like people on around you. So just do that. Well, on that note, shall we leave it there?
00:42:22
Speaker
I think so. And hopefully, we can all go into a guilt-free summer. Yeah, can do it. Let's report back in September. Did you manage to do less guilty summer?
00:42:35
Speaker
And do what you needed, got the rest that you needed, worked as much as you needed, but also got to be present with your kids. That's all we can help for. Without feeling guilty, and let's face it. that Let's strip the mum guilt.
00:42:47
Speaker
and Let's do it. Dad guilt he can.
00:42:51
Speaker
Pop it on. Exactly, tag team. All right, everybody, take care. Have a great summer.