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I'm Anju, I had two boys, then I became a Scrum Master
192 Plays8 months ago
In this chat, we reveal how Anju achieved her dream career after having two boys very close in age (no it's not what I thought it was!)
We discuss working in tech, how to go for what you want and the realities of achieving your dream job with two boys in tow.
This is an inspiring chat of resilience, determination and the importance of having a village.
Share your thoughts on https://instagram.com/fivehourclub
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Guest
00:00:09
Speaker
Hi I'm Amy and I'm Emma and this is the Five Hour Club Podcast where we navigate life between the school runs.
00:00:20
Speaker
Angie is a scrum master, mum to two boys who are very close in age and part of Emma's village. She shares how she tackled work grievances whilst heavily pregnant and then how she was inspired to change career paths during her second maternity with two boys under two.
00:00:35
Speaker
This conversation highlights what happens when you compromise and how that can result in determination and silver linings.
Podcast Episode Overview
00:00:41
Speaker
Enjoy.
Personal Connection and Kindness
00:00:48
Speaker
Hi, I'm Joos, so thank you so much for joining us today. um So I know you because your oldest boy also goes to school with my oldest boy. and You very kindly offered that I could use your driveway to park and I bet that you regret the day that you have offered because you have become an integral part of my village. So thank you so much.
00:01:12
Speaker
and It is absolutely no problem, and no problem at all. I love having you there. I love seeing your car just appear on the drive and I think, shit, I need to get to school. Just a little reminder, like, oh, yeah, but you know that if I'm there, then we're late, then you're late. So yeah,
00:01:34
Speaker
so yeah exactly. So if you see our car, you're like, oh, no, I'm running. I'm definitely running late. a So you have four and five year old boys. Can you run us through kind of what you do and in your
What Does a Scrum Master Do?
00:01:49
Speaker
job? How does your week look like? and So yes, so first of all, you're a scrum master. I'd love to know a bit more about that. Okay, cool. Yeah. So I am, as you say, a scrum master. So I work in Digitech Sky. and I have done for two years now, much two and a half years, been in digital technology.
00:02:10
Speaker
Um, and yeah, so it's, I'm a scrum master. I love it. It's the job that I wanted to do for about a year before I became a scrum master. It was just my ambition. I'll tell you a bit about that at some point or how that all came to fruition. But yeah, that was my goal. I went for it and yeah, I love it. I love every minute of it. I love being a scrum master and being in digital to digital tech, it's got a good,
00:02:38
Speaker
work-life balance with Sky and being in that department as well, I think. ah It just really works really well for family life and just balancing everything, the juggle.
00:02:51
Speaker
I'm trying to ask Andrew, what is a scrum master? In my head, I'm i'm thinking that it's rugby scrums. Yeah. know but yeah what does that and What does that mean? Yeah. So everyone's like, oh, you don't look like you haven't got a rugby physique. I'm like, no, I know. i don't I'm not a scrum master from rugby. Yeah. So basically I coach the team on, and I guess, being the best version of themselves within the agile framework.
00:03:20
Speaker
So there are lots of different like agile methodologies out there. um And the one that we use at Sky is the scrum fame framework, what's the most popular used framework within the department. And um yeah, so basically my role is to coach the team on understanding these methodologies and what makes it work for the team so that we kind of then work together well as a team.
Balancing Work and Family Life
00:03:44
Speaker
and So I help them understand where their kind of weaknesses are, where their but possible improvements, what's working well for us. and I can share that amongst the Scrum Master community to hear how other teams are maybe struggling in some areas, how we're doing really well in those areas. They will kind of share knowledge, share and help each other to grow our teams and like basically get like software developers to be the best versions of themselves and to enjoy their work as they're doing it. It's like making it a happy, healthy environment for everyone
00:04:19
Speaker
to be in. And another way of kind of explaining it is if you look at a team and they're the planet, the Scrum Master's like the atmosphere around the planet that just keeps all the shit from our space out.
00:04:31
Speaker
and we just bear to help the planet grow and thrive and be the best it can be sort of thing. So yeah, that's it. I mean, I have to say that it sounds like a really cool job. I can see, and um and knowing what I know about you is I can see that you'll be really good at that. It's sort of just your character and and your way and you're you're very positive and supportive. So yeah, I think, wow, that's a really cool cool thing. Yeah, I do feel like I've found the job for me. Like it's, I love it.
00:04:59
Speaker
just being so positive. And it's so interesting, like finding out all the different roles, like specifically in tech, that you don't have to be like a hardcore programmer, there's lots of different ways you can use your soft skills. so yeah And like on on a day to day basis, so you're saying like, it's quite family friendly. And I know, so you're hybrid, aren't you? you Because you you commute in, is it one or two days a week? Can you talk us through? So I think a couple of things. So you said it's family friendly. So how, you know, does does it work for you in terms of balancing you like with the kids? And also, how do you manage the commute? Because you do have a bit of a whopper of a commute. And and you're definitely, like some people, I'm like, how how how do you do the juggle? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is it is quite a ah big thing, the commute, because i we moved out of London, which is obviously where our office is, about a year and a half ago. And it was since I moved that they
00:05:54
Speaker
changed the hybrid policy to being in the office two days. So and I was like, oh, how am I going to do this commute? It's going to be quite full on. um Not only the time, but the cost of it also. We've done our little calculations and then we decided to get a second car and I drive. I do the drive, which is about two and a half hours each way. Oh, wow.
00:06:17
Speaker
So it's quite intense and on a bad day you can go up to like three, push in three, three and a half hours, it's quite intense. But I leave, so if we just, we just work it out between my husband and myself, like who's, what day is best for me to go in on those two days of the week and then we kind of fix it and that's it. He's not delivering training and I can go ahead and kind of go off to to London. But on those days, I have to leave the house at like five in the morning to avoid the traffic.
00:06:45
Speaker
It's just like a half-wall wake-up. So Liam's on all the wake-ups in the night and I'm like, right, um i'm I'm up a half-wall. I'm driving. and It's quite nice as well because I get to kind of sneak out before anyone's awake. like I get to avoid the morning chaos. little bit so That's the silver lining there. um Then I get to the office, and and usually around seven. So I'll start my day early and I'll start working before everyone's kind of arriving and everything.
00:07:13
Speaker
And then um I'll have my lunch. And it's more about socializing, to be honest in the office, like, oh, yes, I have my kind of meetings that I need to do, but the in-between, I don't really end up being that productive in terms of work work, but I'm productive in terms of like building relationships and like hanging out with the team and just being there, which is really nice. And then after lunch around like half one, I'll head back home to avoid the traffic again.
00:07:41
Speaker
and which no one ever bats an eyelid at. It's all kind of fun and its spite and it's fine because actually everyone needs to do that. you need to like If you need to get back for the pick up. So on those days my husband will do the drop off but then I need to be back for pick up because otherwise his work don't become super short. He's in the office every day. So yeah, so I'm usually there driving on the M25 hoping that I'm going to be back on time.
00:08:07
Speaker
And if I'm not, it's usually a phone call to the WhatsApp group to say, can someone be there to pick pick him up and just hang out with him on the playground until I can be there. But yes, then I get back for pickup. um And then, yeah, and then it's just kind of log on when I get back, you know, it's just for an hour or so just to kind of tight tie up any sort of loose ends or kind of address anything that would have happened in that commute.
00:08:33
Speaker
and Yeah, so that's how I kind of balance those two days. And then obviously on the days that I'm working from home, it's so much more
Career Path and Challenges
00:08:41
Speaker
relaxed. You know, I can kind of just do the drop off, come to work, do my day, after school clubs, pick them up afterwards and kind of, yeah, just juggle like the work around the pickups and to be able to team a really chilled about it. It's like, I'm off just to pick the kids up. They kind of know. And then it's, yeah, it's it's quite a nice,
00:09:05
Speaker
relaxed vibe sort of thing. So it's good, it's good. As long as I can do my work, it's that's the most important thing. Yeah, that's I mean, that is an incredible commute. I don't know of anybody that drives into London. And then to to do the hours that you do so you can go and pick them up, that is a mean feat in itself. I mean, that's, I should go and I walked 20 minutes to get my kids to have a drive back for two hours. That's, you know,
00:09:29
Speaker
that's really impressive. Do you feel then there's any sort of in the many days when you sort of think oh don't have to leave because I've got this you're in the middle of something you know you have you feel a bit pulled or generally because it's so relaxing where you are and the of atmosphere at work that it's okay you feel like yeah I can stop here I'll pick it up again later I'm not stressed nobody's gonna be putting pressure on me you feel you know yeah yeah I think um I think as long as myself and my husband kind of plan things out well like with his work diary and then I'll just look at my diary and just kind of make sure that those times that I am going to be commuting that they are like sort of downtime like there's no kind of key meetings that I need to go along to or anything and then and a way to kind of make myself feel like I'm getting something out of the commute other than that painful like backache it's like
00:10:20
Speaker
I've put an an audio book on of some sort or I'll stick on a podcast, be listening to your podcast. ah you know I'll listen to something to just make me feel like this is kind of like personal learning time and just because it's otherwise I would feel like that is two sunken hours a day, like four hours you know a day that I've just kind of poured down this thing almost. like So yeah, it just makes me feel like I'm getting something good out of that time as well. so Yeah, i I can see that actually. And and I just want to say that, when I go for a drive in the evening by myself, I'm like, oh
00:10:56
Speaker
lovely, you sort of get that sort of time back. And obviously, if you're doing a train, then you'd be able to work or whatever. But yeah, that's a really great thing actually to have that headspace almost. So then I guess by the time you get home, maybe you can be more present because you've had that space for yourself. Oh, yeah. Yeah, i was admittting exactly. to say I'm like, Angie, you see me and because we sometimes go on ah on a mum's walk and once a week, a minute, three times. But you see me drive up and I'm like listening to 90s dance music, living my best life for that kind of drive.
00:11:26
Speaker
I can imagine, you know, absolutely I was like, Emma, Emma, I need to know what track you're listening to because I need that party in my car on my way to my way home from work before I face the music, the real music. Exactly. right and But yeah, I mean, it was it must be like exhausting as well. um i You know, I appreciate that. it It must be really, really tiring. So fair play to you because that is yeah definitely if it's like a particularly heavy day in the office and I don't you know if it's been like the meetings or whatever then I would definitely get in the car and just blast the music because I'm just like I need to just chill and just not listen to anything focus just focus on the road listen to the music um and I get the thing about the train is that it's it takes longer by train and also it's like
00:12:18
Speaker
So expensive, so expensive that it's just, it's just not worth it. I just rather have my own space, get in the car and just do the drive. It's a really creative way to look at it actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:35
Speaker
Okay, so here's where the nosy bit of me come comes out. um I think the nosy bit is coming out left, right and center. So you mentioned um that you you weren't always a scrum master. So like myself, you've had a little bit of a squiggly career. So can you take us back before you had the boys and and to talk us through. So what you did before you were a scrum master and kind of like, was it, was it um was it having children? So if you talk this through, okay, what what you did before kids, and then kind of that transition back to to work. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so what I did before kids, so when I was, okay, so pre-kids, our world was like, okay, we both live in the city, we were commuting to work on our bikes, and we would
00:13:31
Speaker
go off for drinks after work. It was very much like, oh, what are you doing tonight? Oh, what are you doing whilst you're in the office? And you're like, yeah, let's go out for dinner. And it was just amazing. You know, it was just that lifestyle that we wanted of just.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah, just going out and just enjoying like basically what's the work, what's the saying, living to, no, working to live. That's it. but of letter now That was it. We had that lifestyle of that pretty much. And, um, but we always knew that kids was going to be on, on the horizon. You know, we knew it was coming. We've been together for like, we were a unique couple. So, um, yeah, we just kind of.
00:14:13
Speaker
didn't want to rush into things, you know, so we waited until, um, we were like late thirties, late twenties, sorry, before we decided to, you know, tie the knot. And then even then, um, I'd been made redundant like two months before, um, we got married, which sounds scary, but actually it was the best thing. Like I became like a full time wedding planner and I got, I got it with the bread. Um, we needed the little cash injection that I got from the redundancy,
Career Growth and Health Priorities
00:14:41
Speaker
which is brilliant.
00:14:42
Speaker
and But then, i am obviously, you can't be like, you know, I couldn't be living that life forever. So I was like, right, need to start knuckling down after a good summer of just holidaying and honeymooning and just like just living the best summer. It was brilliant. And then that's when I started to think, okay okay, we do want to start having kids. and ah need We need to think about me getting a job because, you know, obviously you get all the benefits of it and everything like that.
00:15:11
Speaker
so I spent about four months applying and I was getting nothing back and I was like, oh no, you know, what's going on? What's going on? And then finally, after I threw a lot of shit, something stuck. And then I got this job at Sky and I was like, oh, okay, this is brilliant. So I started working at Sky and... And Andrew, what did you work as at that time? So at this time I was a digital trading manager. So this is where I look at these,
00:15:41
Speaker
that at that time it was the sales performance. So we were looking at different sales journeys and seeing like where, how did we perform week by week? And then I would kind of answer the why behind that. So if there was like a spike or if there was a dip, I would be the person to say like, here's the headline message. And and yeah, just basically give them the information that they need to go in for their weekly sort of trading meetings basically. It was a great job. I loved it. It was brilliant.
00:16:10
Speaker
and I love data as well, so it was it just worked really well for me. and But then and I felt pregnant within two months of being in that job, which was not the plan. I mean, we we kind of said that we'd wait until I'd qualify for some of the benefits, but we kind of weighed it out and what we wanted was to have kids so we were like let's just go for it like just go for it so we did um so yes i i got pregnant and then so i didn't really get to kind of like give that my all to be honest like i got in i think it was like three months in um but yeah and then uh so that happened and then uh things kind of like
00:16:52
Speaker
it was It was a bit of a hard time to be honest. So I did get a really good score from my manager who was also pregnant at the time. Then she went on maternity leave and then um while she was on maternity leave, after giving me a really good score for my PDP, my PDP score dropped. Say like her manager came back and said like after a review, we're dropping you from a three to a two. And I was like, oh my gosh, I've never been scored a two in my life.
00:17:19
Speaker
like and And this was out of the blue, it was like a kind of, there was, did you understand the reasoning behind that? Was it really? No, I didn't, I felt like there was, ah he wasn't close enough to me to really understand my day-to-day job. So I was kind of like, and in that time as well, we've gone through so many different changes in terms of the reporting that we were using. So it was, I was trying, I was learning about, I learned about our,
00:17:44
Speaker
initial report but then within six weeks of me being there we changed over to entirely different reporting systems so I don't think he quite understood all of that so there was all of that that kind of impacted the overall change so unfortunately she was already on on maternity leave when that happened so she couldn't fight my case that was a bit of a kicker and And I was about six months pregnant, so I was thinking, what do I do? Do I do i try and fight my case? Do I go down for grievance or do I ah just suck it up and say, right, I've got other things. I've got bigger fish to fry. And that's where i that's where i I landed. I kind of accepted that. And I said, right, I'm going on maternity. I've got to keep my health good.
00:18:28
Speaker
I'm just going to roll with this. So I did. And then. um de Can I ask, sorry, interrupt, but what in that score, so did that affect sort of your progression and your bonus, that sort of thing? is that Yeah. So there's three things it really ties to. So if you get a three, then you can move roles. You can change roles if you'd like to and kind of circulate. You also get a bonus and you also get a pay rise.
00:18:54
Speaker
and you think below a three and you don't. So I got given a two. So I was like, oh shit. Well it just stops you in your tracks then, doesn't it? I mean, and the position that you're in just stopped you. Yeah, I was pretty much like stumped to be honest. And I was like, right, okay. And and I was going into like, obviously maternity without any, like the company maternity pay. So I was like thinking, oh my goodness, this is not, this is not great, but it is a situation we're in and let's focus on the health, focus on the health.
00:19:23
Speaker
So you just think, right, okay, let's do that. So yeah, and it was very tiring. Like my first pregnancy was very, very like exhausting, but, and it was a one and a half hour commute that I was doing each way at that time. So I was like, well, that's fine. I can kind of manage that. But then I went on maternity leave and I unexpectedly got pregnant again. So this is where, right, you know, so you've got a four and a five year old,
00:19:52
Speaker
And before I had kids, I would just be like, oh yeah, they have a four and a five-year-old, or a three and a four and a five-year-old. Now I have kids, I'm like, you have a four and a five-year-old. You are a stupid woman. Incredible. How has that even happened? I don't even know how it happened. It doesn't work in my brain. My nips can't comprehend it. I can't. I don't. The maths hasn't worked.
00:20:17
Speaker
still so We were both like, both of us were like, it can't be ours. It can't be ours. Immaculate conception. Hang on a minute. So there, there we were. So Freddie was six months at the time. Um, and then yet, so, um, I thought, right, I better get back to work. Uh, when Freddie was about nine months old, cause I was thinking I got to put something in. So.
00:20:45
Speaker
I went back to work at like, I think I must have been six months pregnant by that point or maybe five and a half. And because I was only going to be back to work for like three months, they just said that they're going to default me onto a two again.
00:21:02
Speaker
Oh gosh, really? Default, just default. Default, you you know, you've offered maternity, default too, no progression for you. Amazing. Yeah, it was it wasn't a great it wasn't a great message, but at the time I thought, you know what, I don't feel like I've got a ah fair argument, I just, I don't know, I can't, I don't know, what do I say?
Inspiration and Career Shift
00:21:22
Speaker
What a good thing to put you in though, to let you feel like you can't say anything. That's where it's going. Have you compromised in the first one and said, oh well, you know, I'll take it because, but then for it to happen again by default. Yeah, it was not really, it was it was a really, it was a big hit to take, especially like from, cause I've been very much sort of career minded from like, from ah when I came out of uni and it was always like,
00:21:48
Speaker
you know, it's time what my objectives are, I want to like set what what kind of goals are for the year and I would be kind of working towards that and always aiming to achieve at least a three, if anything, try and go for a four. um And that was the same in my previous company as well as I had the same sort of scoring system. So to get a two, I was kind of thinking, fuck, like, this is really, really not good for me. and But again, I was there and, you know, for three months and in that time, one thing I did take from it, which which was amazing, was and that whilst I'd gone, they'd restructured and they'd brought in this agile working. And I saw the Scrum Master do it in all her glory. And she was like um a single mum and she was just absolutely rocking the role. And I was like, you are amazing. And this is what I want to do. Like, this is me. So, so yes, that's like
00:22:43
Speaker
and that was just incredible so I even took away when I went on maternity leave second time around in the sort of small sort of glimpses of me time that I got which was very very far and very far a few between. and i yeah I was going onto little meetups I was reading like doing my sort of research into the role like I was doing what I could to try and make it happen like I was really really keen for it.
00:23:07
Speaker
Wow it sounds like you were just yeah inspired from that one person who was yeah like you say rocking it as a single mum and showing the way forward for you. I mean what a great thing I guess like you say to take away with your interpaternity to have that focus and drive which sounds like you've always had so yeah that sounds like a really good goal. It was like it was like the wind I needed do you know what I mean like I was like I mean it was great that I had two boys. and And unfortunately, Sammy was born like a month before lockdown. So like, obviously, second maternity was not what I was expecting at all. Like, where are the calves and like, where are the The baby sensory. Like, in all of these conversations, and we're talking about like, return to work, like,
00:23:56
Speaker
I think we forget, we don't forget, but we we forget, not everyone has been through that unique experience of having a baby in lockdown and that's, you know, on top of everything else. and But what you were saying there about, you know, option number three, like option A, do this, you know, and then you chose option number three, like I just don't have the energy to to deal with that. I just wonder how many other pregnant women or women and children are in that position.
00:24:26
Speaker
And you know what, I just don't have the energy to fight it right now. I'm just going to accept it for what it is. Yeah, it was a shit it was a shame because I was up against, I felt like I was up against, you know, like my manager at the time was a young male single. I just bought a flat in London living the dream. And and then I had the manager the director the that kind of down-scored me. he He was married, but he had no kids. and So I just felt like, I didn't know if they could really truly understand like what I was going through. It was really like an exhausting time anyway. And and you just pick your battles. You think, right, you know what, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go, like, you know, grievance was kind of very suggested. And I was like, no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna put myself through that. And they said it would be a lot like,
00:25:21
Speaker
to take on and I was like, so I'm going to accept it. I'm going to have to accept the two and take them both. But I came back for my second maternity when Sammy, my youngest, was nine months old. And this was when we were all working from home. And ah my manager, she was amazing. So she
Becoming a Scrum Master
00:25:45
Speaker
also had her first born was the same ah age as my youngest so we both just come back from maternity and she just said to me like right this is your situation you are currently a T she knew that I wanted to go for a scrum master she said you need to get yourself to a three to be able to and just basically do what you want to do like to have these opportunities to move around and the role that I'd gone into was completely different obviously in that time there'd be restructures and there'd
00:26:16
Speaker
team had changed people, left people were gone, that was all over the place. So my role now, I came back as a digital experience manager. So rather than looking at the sales, I was looking at all of the online performance. So the journey for the customer. So this role just kind of like was there. There were 10 of us at one point. And then it was a role that felt like they had to create it to put us somewhere.
00:26:45
Speaker
sort of thing so like as people were leaving these roles they weren't backfilling them they were just kind of like getting rid of them sort of things they were 10 of us and now that i think we're down to one if none like i think there's one left and i'm currently mentoring him to become a strong master um but yeah so we've gone down to like no dxm so just to kind of give you a context of that role it really did feel like a sort of get a spare a part a little bit here in this sort of situation, but it was fine. She was like, just take it and do something with it. She was like, make something of this role. So I was like, right, okay, I'm going to do it. So that's when I started like really, I started learning about this tool that they use, which is called Content Square. And I just became like a brain box content square expert. I just learned how to use the tool and like it was there, it was available, but there was a lot to do to learn. So like people weren't giving it the time because they didn't have the time.
00:27:39
Speaker
in their in their roles and stuff, they didn't they just didn't do it. So it was very underutilized. So I became like the content square champion and I like was constantly on it. I was like the number one user at one point. and like It was brilliant. like It was a good tool. And I was putting these like cases forward to say, like ah you know this this this change, if we make this, I've spotted like a friction point.
00:28:04
Speaker
let's go after this and you can generate more kind of customers through the funnel and all that kind of stuff. It was going really well. I got the three. and I delivered the international talk, the telco, which was pretty amazing. Like, yeah, that was a pretty kind of milestone moment for me. And then um after that first year, I just went back to my manager and I said, look, I've got the three and she says you did so well. And I said to her like,
00:28:33
Speaker
I really want to go for a Scrum Master role now and she was just like go for it and applied and I got the job. and Here I am, two twenty half years later. Wow, I mean, what a story, Andrew. What can I say? ah You did all of that, having just had two boys very close together and you've come back, you had that determination, you knew what you wanted, you did everything in your power to make that happen. And I just think that's just incredible. It's just so inspiring. I think, yeah.
00:29:04
Speaker
I mean, it cost us. I mean, so for the boys, I was paying, my whole salary was going on to them being in nursery. I was paying more than two and a half, like £2,200 a month for them both to be in nursery because obviously they were both under two when I went back to work. and So I was like, is that right though? But I think there was a time when they were both under the age of two. Yeah. And then the 15 hours came in, I think at the time, really can my brains here but I think it was 15 hours after the age of two or something like that. um So yeah I mean that wasn't kind of mustard you know I was like there was so much and like obviously I was in but the nursery that I was at they didn't do the clothes during term time so they'll open year round so it was just like pro-routed what you do get so yeah basically my whole salary was going on to them being a nursery
00:29:59
Speaker
But I did it because I really wanted to go for this as a scrum master and also being a stay-at-home mum wasn't for me. ah It's exhausting. i felt I mean, I was kind of scared going into the six weeks of one of those right now. Well, that's it. I think it is, like you say, when you know you're a certain type of person, it's really hard to I really tried. it I really tried this year. I thought, you know, my youngest is not going to be in school for enough three years, so I'm going to really stick in. And I couldn't figure out what my career path was. I was like, I'm really trying to stay at home with him full time. And it was really, it was just too tricky. I needed to use
00:30:38
Speaker
This drive and all everything. I just couldn't switch off from that and I think when you're that sort of person and Staying at home. It's a different kind of fish like you just have to be I think ah not even a different type of person I think it's I don't know what it is, but it is such a hard job physically emotionally Mentally, yeah you know, it drains you from all of your being sometimes and I think you just have to be a slightly different character to be able to do that a hundred percent of the time and So, and I think when you've just got this other drive and you know you can know, you can channel that into something which can be, you know, productive in a different way, then, you know, you just got to lean into that, haven't you? So I think what you did was, was, yeah, was an incredible thing. And I think, like you say, actually knowing that that you weren't that sort of person, you needed to have that career and move forward with that just yet. And I think it's it showed in what you've been able to achieve.
00:31:28
Speaker
Well, yeah, I mean, this is it. I mean, I think like, this is where Skye had really done an amazing job. Like, because they really supported me. My manager, when I came back second time around, she was just like, go for it, Angie, you can do this. She was like a champion. She was my cheerleader. She was really, really going for it. Like, she just knew that I had it in me and that I wanted to do it as well. Like, and and so yeah, the support there was incredible.
Supporting Parents at Work
00:31:52
Speaker
um I have to say it was really good. And it really does depend on the manager that you get when you're returning to work.
00:31:58
Speaker
Um, you know, it can really change your experience, I think. I could not agree more because I think it it doesn't, I mean, obviously you can have a company with the best values in the world, but if you don't have that immediate support system, um, to help you and channel, you know, what you're interested in and going to, but then, then how are you going to get to those places that, that really you're meant to be?
00:32:31
Speaker
Is there anything else kind of going back to before, but it's saying like, it's a family friendly, you know, and it really works for your current situation. Is there anything else that your employer do to help parent at the moment? Yes. Yes. So, okay. So following my two experiences, um,
00:32:49
Speaker
I joined what is the parents and carers network. So they have this network of people from all over the whole, the whole of the organization. So you could be, it doesn't matter what role you are or what team you are, you can be part of this network if you want to be. Um, so I put my hand up and I was like, look, this is something I'm quite passionate about. I would like to kind of help others that are going through an experience that I have just been through myself.
00:33:15
Speaker
and So I joined this network and they basically are there to support people returning to work after being on leave for a long period of time. So it can be dads, moms, carers and who are off for a long period of time and they're going through this kind of experience of returning to work having not been there for a while. um And the reason why I wanted to join was because ah Obviously, that was my own experience anyway, but I'd been speaking to a whole number of people who were planning to go on maternity or and had just come back to work themselves. And the lack of knowledge that was out there on what parents are entitled to, you know, things like the tax-free childcare, like I think it's like 1.8 million people ah qualify for it by I think only
00:34:12
Speaker
I'll have to get the data, but yeah, it's so under, and what's it called, applied for, basically, because people don't think that they're eligible. So I was thinking, right, this is a massive factor for people returning to work, because, you know, if you don't think you can afford it, then you might not want to do it. Like you think, right, okay, so I'm not going to cost in. and So yeah, so there was a whole number of reasons why I wanted to go to this network. So we, I have,
00:34:40
Speaker
And what they do, they basically have like a portal that's there that has loads of information for people to go to and be like kind of guided to by their managers to get this information. But we've also created a buddy system. So like if you do have and someone in your team as a manager that you know is going on maternity, you can be that proactive person to help set them up with a buddy through this network.
00:35:06
Speaker
and then that person will be there. And that will be a buddy who's nominated themselves to want to be in that role. So, and it, and it will be someone who's not in their team, not in their immediate sort of line of work. So it's completely separate, but somebody who's passionate about helping somebody return to work and feel like they belong there, you know, and like, you know, all the things that you need to know when you're going back to work sort of thing. So it's a really, really good,
00:35:35
Speaker
Um, yeah, it's just a really good support network to be in. It does sound really good. Like what an amazing initiative and what, you know, like to have something in place. Like, as you say, like that information, I only find it relatively recently about the exact parental leads that are available. You know, so think about so many people that you're helping, like in their transition back to work, knowing that they've got a buddy, they've got, you know, safe person that they can talk to. Yeah.
00:36:00
Speaker
Yeah. Like it's such a vulnerable time, isn't it? Like going through that maternity, that and level of uncertainty, that all of the different changes that you go through. So yeah, what an incredible initiative. and Yeah. And it's also just like having someone he who you can just be open and honest with, you know, like so you can feel safe to say like, God, I feel like I've been taking loads of sick leave because my child is always sick. And I feel like everyone's like judging me or kind of you know, not thinking I'm doing a good job. And then you've got that voice. and yet So you have that person that's there who can give you that reassurance to say, look, your child is not the only child. that said Every child is sick. And we're all taking the time off because we have to look after our kids. Like, you know, it you're not you're not alone, you know.
00:36:47
Speaker
there's others just like you. I'm one of them sort of thing. Yeah, and I think it is, is like you said, that collective feeling of you're not alone because it is. It's a very vulnerable, isolating place, especially when you know you've you've been on maternity and maybe you haven't touched base with anybody at work or you know you don't know what it's going to be like going back.
00:37:03
Speaker
You know, so I think actually, yeah, I think that's a really nice thing to have is just somebody who can just feel like, actually, i I am just not alone. Because let's face it, every time we talk to everybody else, everybody's saying the same thing. So it's just sometimes you feel that you can't talk, especially at work. It's one of those things, isn't it, where you feel that you can't open up necessarily. So that's a really great system, I think you've got there. ah It is, it definitely, yeah, it's brilliant. it's It's a great system. And it just kind of gives people that confidence to be able to come back and feel like, you know,
00:37:32
Speaker
they're doing the right thing or that they've got the support there, that there's information available that actually it's not going to cost their support in terms of paying for childcare. That's what they're doing. So yeah, like, yeah, it's really good. It's like, you know, when you go to the playground as well, like just when you just open your mouth and you just, all of it spills out from the morning and you're like, yeah yes and then they're like, you're not, like child is exactly the same. And you're like,
00:37:58
Speaker
Thank you.
00:38:02
Speaker
It's so true. Like sometimes you just need that validation. Oh, do you know what? I do. How hard is this? And that acknowledgement from that safe space of, yeah, you know what, it is hard. And, and having someone in the same company as you, so they, they get the kind of, you know, what goes on in your company. And also the world of work is changed. And, and if you are remote or hybrid, you don't get those, like water can be packed as much as you, as you you know, did back in the day. um So to be able to have that body, to be able to talk to such a great idea. Now, Andrew, clearly you have been on a journey and you're a very knowledgeable lady, especially as a mother. a and Knowing what you know now in your career and as a mother, is there anything that you would kind of go back in time and say to your younger self? it Would you give a piece of of advice to your younger self?
00:38:55
Speaker
Do you know what I would say actually and this is going to sound so bad but I would actually be like have more understanding of what other people are going through because as much as I'd love to I don't think I was ever mean or anything but like I don't think I truly understood what other people were going through when they were parents you know like that my colleagues were like kind of like coming in and they'd have to struggle and you think oh that's such a shame it was always so flat like I could never really truly relate to it but yeah so it would kind of like be like a bit more sort of yeah just be aware that people have stuff going on you know like and and just to kind of be aware of that and take it into your sort of consideration when you're when you're talking to people and working with people and
00:39:47
Speaker
yeah Oh, that's a very kind thing, I think, for you to sort of reflect on, because I think it is hard, and you haven't especially when you haven't got kids, that you just don't get
Self-Care and Reflections
00:39:56
Speaker
it, right? And I would say the same for my my family, where they had them a lot younger than I. And I think it is really hard to be compassionate always. But I think, like you say, it's not even just for people who've had kids, it's, you know, and other people have stuff going on. And it's a case of, you know, being just thoughtful of that. Yeah, yeah, just being really mindful of that. Yeah, definitely. I think
00:40:18
Speaker
Those are very wise words. Now I expected wise words and your pressure. yeah
00:40:27
Speaker
and Okay. So I've got one final question if you're ready for it. And that is, if you could give yourself a bit of kindness tomorrow morning and say or do one kind thing for yourself, what would it be? Tomorrow morning you wake up.
00:40:48
Speaker
and What are you going to do for yourself, Angie? Oh, I I will. Oh, it's a really tricky one. It's always the one that gets everybody. is I think the point we're making is that you get that self-care bit. Nobody knows what they would do for themselves. You struggle to, to yeah, to think, could you give yourself time? Could you give yourself time for yourself? like what tomorrow could make life easier for yourself that you can do for yourself, but I love it. I don't love, but i um' I noticed that as well, Amy, that people really struggle with this question. I think I will, because 10 minutes isn't a long time, right? It's not he it's not a big ask, right? I would want to do like a 10 minute
00:41:38
Speaker
yoga or meditation that is just going to set me up well for the day because it's something i always want to do but then i just never do it and i think oh 10 minutes could be spent doing something else you know there's so much else to do i've got to pack the lunches or i've got to tidy the kitchen or i've got to kids are downstairs yeah so it's finding 10 minutes to just go off and do some yoga or some meditation to just chill zen and get myself ready for the day Yes, you need to do this now. I'm going to be able to check in with you tomorrow that you've done your 10 minutes. Okay. Because I have this thought, I have this very, very fleeting thought of, wouldn't it be nice to do a little bit of yoga? So where I undo it, I'm going to text you in the morning. Shall we do it together? You could go and do a little video and you can both be there on Zoom. Do a bit of 3, 5.30 in the morning.
00:42:34
Speaker
Namaste ever. I want video evidence at best. Okay let's do this. and not like Do it. Thank you so much Andrew. It was it was so good to chat to you and you have such an interesting story um and glad that we got to teach We, you got to teach aiming about it, being a scrum master. It's not. Honestly, ah I love the sound of this. I mean, how do I, I don't think I'm qualified to do that, but I think that, yeah. I can't do it. I mean, look at you, even now you're like, you're a coach. You're like, yes, you can do it. It suits you to a titty. I think if you can mother, you can be a scrum master. I do feel like a mum at work sometimes and just teaching other people things. You're always catching that.
00:43:24
Speaker
Right, Andrew. I'm going to text you in the morning. We're going to do our our yoga. So, go. We're going to talk in a break with you. Okay. Amazing. ah Thank you so much, Andrew. You're incredible. You're inspiring. And I hope that it continues in that way for you. oh Thank you so much for having me. You two are very inspiring very much. Thank you so much. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Have a good evening. Bye-bye.