Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
I'm Emily, I'm a solo parent, and I work compressed hours
224 Plays11 months ago
In this episode, we talk to Emily, a solo parent who is navigating how to juggle two boys under 6, and her full-time career. We share the reality of co-parenting, what it means to be financially independent and the importance of self-care.
If you want to share your story, get in touch with us @fivehourclub on Instagram.
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:09
Speaker
Hi, I'm Amy and I'm Emma and this is the Five Hour Club Podcast where we navigate life between the school runs.
00:00:19
Speaker
Billy is
Challenges of Solo Parenting with Billy
00:00:20
Speaker
a solo parent of two young boys and as a close friend of mine I was able to ask her the nitty-gritty of what co-parenting really looks like and how she maintained her financial independence. We also reflect on her lack of self-care and what she compromises to put her children first. If you are a solo parent yourself or go in that direction this is a must-listen.
Emily on Family Dynamics Post-Separation
00:00:40
Speaker
So Emily, you have two boys, age three and five, and you separated from their father almost a year ago now, making you a solo parent. And what I would like to know, can you tell us the impact that's made to your family and what co-parenting looks like for you? Thoughts towards the... your decision around that, you know, did you think sort of, you know, what was best for you short term, long term, all of that stuff, because we'll have people out there who are maybe so in a similar position thinking about separating young children. And from your experience, do you think it's, you know,
00:01:12
Speaker
How's it been for you? So, oh, it I mean, oh, dear me, me. What do you say on a recorded podcast about how successful a break he's probably not gonna listen, so. Well, let's, yeah, I mean, even if he does, it's not the world's best to get the secret. I think things have been better since. So, yeah, I mean, it was just one of those decisions where, you know, you,
00:01:42
Speaker
argue a lot you know and there was a bit of a power imbalance which I definitely felt when I was on the tennis leave um and I was at home all the time even though it's only for like less than a year probably both times.
Power Imbalance and Financial Independence
00:01:55
Speaker
It just kind of brings a lot things to the surface that I don't think you really notice as much before you have children because ah you know inevitably a lot more falls on the mum or a lot more falls on the person who's at home and when you're used to kind of power balance and equality and stuff it suddenly becomes you know um yeah you're getting quite a resentful situation don't you but you know it was more than that it was um'm you know I'm not going to sit here and say oh it was just the fact that
00:02:22
Speaker
had children and I was off work for nine months that the relationship went wrong but you know it certainly shone a light on stuff so I think um you know that was part of it and I think you kind of feel like going back to work is what's needed to get that equality back but you know I think sometimes people just have great situations but it does help if you can be in a position financially and kind of you know, career wise, you can make that decision because I know a lot of people can't make that decision. They're kind of trapped in places they don't want to be and relationships they don't want to be in. So yeah, grateful and relieved equally.
00:03:05
Speaker
No, I think that's really powerful because, like you say, not everyone is able to make that decision because maybe they've been with their partner long term and they've yeah know financially they've been dependent on them. And I know that that's not necessarily been the case for you, which is which gave you that choice, more of a choice than others might have, which is for me, personally watching you go through this, it opened my eyes to think, oh, hang on.
00:03:31
Speaker
a minute, you know, if, if that situation was to occur for me, what position would I be in? Is that something that's viable? And seeing you do it in such a, I think I'm really successful where I know it's been really hard, but I can see that actually for you as a family, that has been the best situation for you.
Co-Parenting and Household Management
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah. And, and obviously there's still work to be done. But yeah, if you could, I mean, if you're happy to share about, you know, in terms of what co-parenting looks like for you now,
00:04:01
Speaker
Obviously that there has been a shift, but is it much different to what it was before? I would say it's probably not that different to how it was before. um And I think that comes with um the role that we take as women, quite a lot of the time where we just kind of organise, not in all cases, I mean, do you think there are men out there who maybe take on more of that kind of like household management role. But certainly for me, um ah in my relationship, I kind of managed the house of finances, managed, you know, what was happening with the kids, managed, you know,
00:04:44
Speaker
Most of the stuff. Yeah. And that hasn't changed. I'd love to say like, yeah, you know, a success story of my breakup is that, you know, I've also reduced some of that, you know, i'm domestic life. Just the same. I mean, in that way, then it sounds like it's a, you know, in a way, it's kind of, yeah, it hasn't much changed in that way. No, obviously but you lose the resentment. And I think that's what it's like. I think when you're in a relationship with somebody and you're both working and you're both parents, and I think if if you don't feel like, you know, regardless of what, obviously there's always two sides to every story, and I'm acutely aware that while I'm talking about this, if we were to ask him the same questions, there'd be a different perspective. And that's fair enough, because that's just human beings, isn't it? so um But, you know, when you feel like it's really um not weighted equally,
00:05:40
Speaker
and you're both doing similar things, you know, as in work parenting, um then you build up that resentment. And if then if that person is then not there in the house, even though it still could still be seen as a bit irritating, possibly, that but there isn't that equality, you don't resent it as much because the expectation isn't there. And so I think that's what's different.
Exhaustion of Solo Parenting
00:06:05
Speaker
You kind of have that, you have much more of a,
00:06:08
Speaker
um you know, you're happy to do it all because it's just you. Yeah. But it's, I mean, you still shouldn't be doing it all. But so what does it look like? Is it, do you have a 50-50 split? What does your sort of co-parenting sort of week look like? How much? So I wouldn't call it 50-50. I think it can be quite challenging considering somebody has left the home that you lived in as a family. um And so at the moment he's just kind of trying to sort out something for himself so that he can have the children overnight. Because at the moment there are no overnight stays. So, um you know, pretty tired quite a lot of the time. But that's fine. I don't think it's going to be forever. um She says... She says, why don't I trip?
00:06:57
Speaker
It's fine. It's fine. I mean, what have you had one night in five years off? Yeah, that's it. I mean, if you hear that one night, Even when you were together. Well that was recently. so actually No, I wouldn't really say one night in five years. So with my youngest, I'm sorry, my oldest, I had, um after he was born, um so I had and post-honest depression with him. So I was really, really keen to get away from him actually, which isn't like, you know.
00:07:24
Speaker
top parenting stuff, but you know, it's it's real life. Yeah, and so it's hard. Exactly. That bit you feel that you didn't want it to get out. So I did, I went to a festival when he was like six months old and you know, the relationship wasn't particularly great with his dad then either. um And so, yeah, so I did stuff then obviously when you're living with a partner or the father of your children.
00:07:47
Speaker
or, you know, whoever, anyone, any other responsible adult. You can have more flexibility to go out and stuff. So I definitely had like evenings out, you know, I did have a couple of nights away where the kids would stay with their dad, my oldest son at the time would stay with his dad. And it was more kind of flexible, didn't breastfeed him for as long, you know, it was more kind of detached. So yeah, but then when my youngest came along, so he's now three, I,
00:08:16
Speaker
Yeah, still kind of, I fed him late, um you know, breastfed him late, which obviously means you're kind of like tied to them. um But also the relationship was going wrong and then, you know, subsequently went wrong and separated. um So yeah, suddenly you find yourself with like no, no childcare support, no respite.
00:08:35
Speaker
So it's like you can't even go to the shop in the evening if you like realize you've forgotten something. So God knows how people in the situation manage before like Eva eats and delivery kicks in. I mean like pre-lockdowns and your parents must have been flippin' impossible. We're like walking around Sainsbury with like both kids in a buggy at like 10 o'clock at night or whatever.
00:08:52
Speaker
yeah But I mean, now, at least I'm like, yeah, £20 for life of bread, I'll pay it. Yeah, that's so
Adaptability and Self-Reliance
00:09:00
Speaker
true. Like, what you'll do, what you'll order, the random delivery just to get that thing. Yeah, one thing. thing that you really need, and loving a lot of random shopping. But really, like, hearing from your story, like, you are still in the tick of it. Like, you know, I'm not going to necessarily survival mode. I feel like I'm in survival mode this week, just for the home.
00:09:19
Speaker
been well, but really you are, you know, you are still in the tick of it. What now? Yeah. I guess so. You Oh, I do. I do. So there you go. I told you so. I just like, whenever people ask me how I am, all I can say is I'm just, I'm tired. And i it's that whole thing, isn't it? Where like, you know, I want to work full time, I want to earn my maximum amount. So therefore I've like, you know, chosen to work full time hours.
00:09:49
Speaker
then obviously I've got the children pretty much full time. There's cut you know a couple of days after school I don't, and one like day time at a weekend. Sorry, do you realize that answered your question from earlier? I didn't even fully answer when I had the time off. yeah But yeah, so he has them for a day at a weekend. But it's, um yeah, you never, you know, you never really get to fully recharge.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah. Well, no. How can you? Yeah, absolutely. Because if you want any kind of social life as well, which I think is really important for well-being, obviously. Yeah, of course. Not even like going out like partying, whatever. who kind of maybe gets it or just doesn't matter if they get it, just having an adult conversation. Exactly.
00:10:35
Speaker
Sitting there pairing socks. Yeah. Are you supposed to, if like, if you think about all these needs as a human, just when it's very fundamental at a level, you examine that you need, how can you get those unless you book it once and once in advance and then it comes right and you're like, oh, I'm too tired for that name. Well, that's it. Yeah, it's true. You have to kind of, yeah we have the social calendar and think, oh, actually, when can we ever meet?
00:10:59
Speaker
you know without the children ever again just doesn't happen because I'm one of them sick or and it's that whole thing isn't it where like the body keeps the score so I would say that mentally I feel quite resilient I feel like I can kind of cope with things yeah but then you notice bits of your body falling off yes
00:11:16
Speaker
Like, you know, it's like more hairs coming out of your hairbrush or like, so my thing is like heartburn, stomach acid, never had that for children ever. It wasn't even something I'd register. I'd be like, oh, that sounds awful. Oh, look at me getting my 10 hours a night. Like, that's never gonna touch me. Now, it's like, as soon as I come off like, you know, like a Metcazole or anything like that.
00:11:36
Speaker
I'm like, no, no, I don't need that anymore. And then within a couple of weeks, I'm like, oh. And I mean, it's not like giving up alcohol and coffee is an option, is it? Well, no. The doctor was like, you just cut out whole coffee and fatty food. There's nothing left.
00:11:55
Speaker
Absolutely not. Do you know what's funny? Because I am was technically a biologist. And whenever I think technically, I'd still be biology free like that. And it still amazes me how, of course, we have this brain, you know, body connection. Of course we do. Like, and this is what, you know, what has happened to me. Like, you know, you're getting sick. Oh, maybe you should have a breath. Maybe you should look after yourself.
00:12:21
Speaker
now in the day. You told me this, this thing about if you don't take a break, your body will just decide for you when to take the break and that's going to be a really inconvenient time. so But how can you do that when you're having to go 1000 miles an hour to keep up with what's going on as a sort of parent and working and all of that and how stuff There is that kind of technique isn't there, which is weird because I was like, I used to do running. We were not proclaimed to be any massive like athlete. But I have done like a half marathon, quite a few 10Ks. In fact, that's when I first met you, you were like, should we do this half marathon? I was like, absolutely not. What are you talking about? She was like, then she spun it. Yeah, but we could say we're doing this half marathon and we could just go and hang out on a coffee shop on a Sunday morning. And I was like, now that, I'm in. Did you ever do that? Are you sure? Well, no, I had. No, exactly. It's been announced. But also, you know, I don't know. Yeah, we could just go and sit in a coffee shop. We don't even need to pretend it's a half marathon. No, exactly. Just go and sit in a coffee shop on that one day a weekend. Exactly.
00:13:25
Speaker
So you were saying you're a runner. Yes. And then it all came out. Segwayed into some massive like hero worshipping about all the exiles that I don't do. um But at the time, when I was running, like a lot of people were like, oh, you know, there's this kind of um theory when you're running. from You can do this thing called rest while running, which is when you're like doing any long distance running.
00:13:45
Speaker
You just kind of slow your pace down, so you're still running, but they call it rest while running, because obviously if you were to stop, eventually you would see yourself, which is quite an analogy for just like general life. But it is like an actual thing, so you just kind of slow your pace down, you might catch a breath, have a little drink, whatever you need to do. So I just think that's quite a transferable kind of idea, isn't it, to parenting. Yeah, do you do that?
00:14:08
Speaker
Well, I can't stop running, can I? Because I've got children, I'm going to get fed. Okay, I'm just checking in that you are actually... Yeah, yeah, I love it. I've picked myself in for like, you know, facials. I probably went above my means, which is why I have to work ridiculous hours. Vicious circle. Yeah, it is a vicious circle, but that's the thing, like, being able to... Like, there's a couple of things here. Like, number one, being a parent is hard. Yeah. Being a parent in today's society is hard. isn't And then when you throw a spanner in the works, when you become a single parent, when you've got grief to deal with, when you've got you children, all of these different things, how to deal with that on top of when it's hard already yeah and and you know what can you do and what do you do on a day-to-day basis too to kind of quit. Yeah, that's true.
Impact of Parenthood on Career
00:15:02
Speaker
Okay, so let's take ways quite nicely then onto our kind of my next. portion of our chat, which is all about your working day. And you've briefly said that, you know, you're working full time. So you've been working as a commission officer for the local government for the last 10 years, correct me if I'm wrong. yeah yeah And now since children, you've been doing that with compressed hours over four days, so working full time. So can you tell us what, first of all, the hell you do? What is a commission officer for the local government? And
00:15:34
Speaker
How has having children impacted that as a career? Do you think working compressed hours to do that and works well for this type of role? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So right. Where do you start? So starting with what commissioning is. So it's pretty mundane. However, there are are little windows of excitement in it. So it's essentially taking direction from the local authority around gaps in services, designing,
00:16:00
Speaker
um services according to needs, so like market engagement, working with people that are going to be using services, et cetera, et cetera, making a case for whether or not it's more cost efficient to buy the service in or to deliver it in-house, and then writing all of the specifications and things, going out to tender, which is essentially going out to offer it to the market to see if anyone wants to buy, you know, ah write a tender, kind of, and then we can buy the service in from them.
00:16:30
Speaker
And then they deliver it on our behalf and then it's like contract management stuff. So it's, yes. It's very hard to make it sound quite exciting. What bits of it do you enjoy these? There's a little bit. Service design. Yeah, yeah. So my degree's in like media and cultural studies. So I'm very much like kind of design, creativity. That's a bit I enjoy. So that's a bit I kind of hold on to. But that's not why I've stayed in it for 10 years. It has just been a job of um Oh, got to be careful. I'd say here, it's not a job of convenience. It's challenging, but it's, you know, I think when you know a job, there's a lot to be said for when you've got young children working in familiarity, you know, yeah you know, you know, the job, you know, the team, you know, what's expected, you know, how to deliver, you know, how to work smart, you know, you know, the contacts and all of that sort of stuff. So that's why it's gone on for 10 years. um It's not a forever job, but it's, you know, it works for now.
00:17:21
Speaker
And after I came back from children, I didn't go back full time. So I went back, I call it part time. One was like 30 hours, the other one was 34 hours. So just sort of like a couple of hours off full time. Just managed to convince myself it was part time. I was like, look at me giving myself a needy ride. So yeah, so now I've gone back up to full time since break up. And the reason I've done that is to maximize my income ultimately. Pardon me.
00:17:49
Speaker
and um Compress hours. So basically, I was doing four days a week. You're absolutely right. So last time we had a chat about this, I was doing four days a week, eight or six, and buying additional leave because we have the option to buy additional annual leave. And then using that leave on an hour hourly basis every week.
00:18:12
Speaker
to cover the short-fallen hours that inevitably was not able to meet. And so I'd have all this leave and it was just ebbing away with no actual break whatsoever. So obviously for lots and lots of reasons, that is not a very i think the few grade not a very efficient way of managing your working week. So after we had that chat though, I had a little like reject. So actually what's happening now from September,
00:18:37
Speaker
because i'm going to be doing um i mean the main thing didn't work because obviously starting at eight in the morning you've got two children at home yeah how are you even doing that like home i know we want a mini boy minute
00:18:57
Speaker
I really um but then I get into bed really early so I have some sort of like mental space in the evening um so it's kind of like they do go to bed early and they do wake up early but that kind of works for us at the moment you're going to have to tell us how you get into bed early because well yeah that's want to know how you live my whole life by 7.30 it that was yeah in the morning. It's practically lunch time. so early in the morning bluey um mice pep spray and
00:19:39
Speaker
I have not got all of these things, have you put them on my questions list? And a lot of Shamsim. Amazim. Oh yes, okay. Amazim, shall we get it to another group? Okay, no, don't get it to your address. People ask questions. Don't worry people will judge you about the sorts of things.
00:19:54
Speaker
Um, so yeah, now it's going to be from September. Oh yeah. So the age book thing didn't work when you're like, how does it work? Um, well, it didn't. It's a long story short, you know, if you really have any meetings, um, between eight and nine. It's hard enough to get them out of the door, let alone we're trying to work. eating not hunger and yeah Honestly, I don't know. I know. Do you think, um, I do want to, I'm sorry. I still want to go back into the nitty gritty. Do you think that compressed hours are sustainable?
00:20:24
Speaker
in the long term?
Balancing Work and Parenting
00:20:25
Speaker
Well, not like that. No, definitely not. So eight to nine is particularly like a pinch point stress for me because I be fit i'll spend my whole morning feeling guilty room for that hour, guilty about the fact I'm not sick with the children, guilty about the fact I'm not interacting with them before their school days start, guilty about the fact I'm not really working of any kind of quality level, the fact that I am there like answering emails or kind of they're looking at a screen blankly while there's like World War war Four gang or something. I don't know, we haven't had but
00:20:54
Speaker
And then, just thought you felt like you were doing everything really badly. Oh yeah, I can relate. Yeah, exactly. And the one that your mind has spoken about inevitably is parenting, which is...
00:21:06
Speaker
ridiculously why I decided to do that four-day week because yeah ah one in my in my brain I was like if I do full-time hours over four days and I'll have Friday free I can take my youngest out of nursery and spend time with him because I had that time with my older one but with the younger one he's been in childcare a lot um and so I was like well I can have that day with him and it'd be great and I'll be giving him what he needs because I'm his mum and he needs that time and I should make the most of the cherish every minute while and And then it got to that Friday and I was like, ringing up his nursery asking to keep him longer because I was like, I just need that day to sit on my own or like do stuff on my own, need the headspace. And um so it just wasn't, it wasn't working out how I'd intended it to work out anyway. And I, you know, I don't really feel that bad about saying I didn't want to spend that Friday with him. like because
00:21:57
Speaker
I was so overwhelmed by the four-day compressed week. That's the irony of it. It got to the day that I kept aside for him. And I was like, I don't want to spend it with him. like I just need to go and sit in a dark room for a bit. Sounds like a carnival though. I know, but now I've kind of moved it. So from September, I mean, some holiday is obviously a complete like, you know, bleep show in May. Yeah. It's a bleep show. See, I made the effort. No, better than me. A bleep show.
00:22:24
Speaker
It's from September, I'm going to be doing 9 till 6, which is fine because they often still care for some reason I feel less bad about. Yeah, I live with their friends. I'm happy. Yeah, I live with their friends. It does make me feel a bit better when they're with their friends or their brother either, you know. Yeah, and I don't want to cook for, you know, if they're somewhere for tea, great, everyone's great. Right. Yeah, who, I mean, let's face it, dinner, dinner time and I have, and I've similarly had this kind of guilt but in the other way but you know I've wanted to pick them up from school because I didn't want to put them into after-school care and I wanted to be able to give them dinner. Let's face it, dinnertime is horrendous in our house. It's more about like stress points.
00:22:59
Speaker
And then I actually went, our school club started at school. Mine was like, can you just go back to work so I can go to after school club? I mean, he already does breakfast club and we didn't eat it. I know, but I'm like, sure, you want to go and hang out in the hall when eat jam sandwiches and play at the PlayStation? Okay. But I was like, I thought I was giving him this wholesome experience of picking him up and he'd give us those shirts. No, they don't give a shit.
00:23:21
Speaker
don Where is the book that's been written for for our children so we can pre-plan this? You know, we've got our expectations that we want to do do the modern day, and then we realize, oh, they want to do these clubs or whatever it is, yeah and then try to match it together. What works?
00:23:35
Speaker
Well, it's just going to be a trauma cycle. Like I know why I want to pick up my kids because my mum necessarily can always do that. So then they're going to be like, well, she did it all the time. We don't need to do that. So for their kids, they're just going to leave them in the wild for like, it's just going to be this cycle that goes on and on. But law and order would have broken down by then. Yes, right. The apocalypse. So from September. So that sounds like a better, more feasible situation. But also, so to make up that shortfall in hours from like not starting when the sun comes up.
00:24:03
Speaker
I'm going to be working Friday, but only half day, so like, finishing at 12. Okay. So I feel like a bit of a child in there all day. Yeah, okay. So like, I've just removed that girl, put him in all day from September, just been like, take it all, take him for the entire day, and then I still get that time in the afternoon to go and get facial, and like, go for a walk, go and get coffee. That sounds really... That sounds like a really good change. I'm really happy to hear that, actually, because it sounds... There's only when I said it, when we had that chat, and I was like,
00:24:32
Speaker
so I was like oh yeah and this is what I'm doing blah blah blah and afterwards I was like what am I doing why and I had to really like sit there and I'm picking my brain I was like it it all came down to that guilt of being a working mum and feeling like somehow I still had to shoehorn in an entire day of like wittling spoons under a like under a cherry tree with my baby arms. I don't want to do that. He doesn't want to do that. like you know Go and play
Financial Independence and Career Choices
00:25:00
Speaker
with your friends in nursery. Go and mess someone else's house up. know This is why I'm working so that we can have his separation. He doesn't want to love him. No, I do not want any wittling spoons.
00:25:13
Speaker
I would like to know any parent who has ever whittled a stick. Amy, Amy, you taught me how to whittle a stick. I a marshmallow stick because it had, I didn't even whistle it, I used a blunt knife to peel off the not sat there watching me and they were like,
00:25:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you would talk to Marshmallows for them. That's quite wholesome, isn't it? it was quite helpsmanth i've got to be sure yeah i so gen know right comp does
00:26:00
Speaker
But it's true, you feel like you should be like, you know, hand-making, like, you know. I don't know they know when you don't want to do something. Well, that's it. And it's like, for me, it's like like the afternoon bits. It's like, I'm sat there kind of making dinner on my phone while they're watching TV. It's not like we having this whole experience after school which is not happening so now i'm like yeah i feel less guilty about it because actually it's not like it's this idyllic thing and then when you do see them you have a little bit of charge like because i have that like you know but on those fridays for example even though they'll be like shorter um because i'll just have the afternoon but a look at
00:26:38
Speaker
actually want to see them. And like that's such a normal feeling isn' to great deal back while you're talking about like the meaning of life.
00:26:56
Speaker
from them at that age. I mean, who would have thought like not spending 24 or seven, you know, with kids? But hats off to people that can do it. And there are people that really enjoy it and are brilliant at it. And then there's obviously that cohort of people who don't enjoy it but have no choice. So it's kind of acknowledging all of that as well. And just feeling very bloody lucky that you're in a position to kind of say, okay, well, this is what I need, this is what I'm going to do. And I guess that's where that financial independence comes from. It kind of goes full circle, doesn't it?
00:27:24
Speaker
So it yeah allows you that choice to say, well, actually, this isn't really for me. I'm okay with that yeah now, eventually, um you know, and I'm in a position where I can make that a reality.
00:27:39
Speaker
I think that this is such an important conversation because what you're saying, so if you don't have that financial stability, then you have does choices limited. yeah And I think personally, I think until recently, I've been really naive about my financial stability. And I have to be perfectly honest, relied on risk. So we talk Like I took a year off work because Will wasn't well. I didn't think about that. I didn't think about the pension gap. I didn't think about any of these things and and how important it is to have that financial stability, but also like going back to it. oh Well, what choices are out there at the moment? If you don't carve out your own career path in a career that you already have to have that financial stability. So how many people are out there?
00:28:23
Speaker
you know, and like I know that there are some responses in our survey that really got to me because they're like unneeded to have financial stability. And I will say, I'll put my hands up to say, it was seeing you and as you moved house not long after separating and you did that, you know, all on your own and you just talked me through all the finances and how you're making it work and you moved, you know, and I was like, how, I If I was in your position, I would have no idea what how to even begin something to look, to move house or anything like that. I didn't even know what my financial independence...
00:28:58
Speaker
but i'm not i'm I'm financially dependent on my husband and that is something that really made me stop and think and it was then that I started thinking about my own career and feeling stuck because I was like well I've depended on him for the last five years financially and yes we've got savings and our only I trust that if anything happened he would support me however I cannot depend on that because I don't know how things could end and not to say that they are but you know I had to think about that and it was only then I thought, oh my God, I've just given the last five years of my career up, yeah essentially. Where does that leave me? I'm not, it just you, it was you who made me think because you have been able to do that. You are financially independent and you, it was, I don't think you've realised how easy you made that scene because it literally just made me think like, what
00:29:45
Speaker
What have I got? I don't know what, you know, pension, everything, like you say, long-term. I have no idea, you know, in the long-term where that would leave me. And I think there are a lot of, and like you say, a career, a job can help people feel like they can get out of that position of feeling stuck. Yeah. Well, exactly. If I hadn't have had, I mean, the house was, I bought the house on my own back in 2017. It was my mortgage.
00:30:09
Speaker
you There were lots of things that made that situation viable. So the fact that obviously I have a fairly decent pay packet, which obviously means that I can support a mortgage, which means that I can, you know, pay for the things that need to be paid for around a house move, you know, removal, solicitors, blah, blah, blah, there's lots of things you have to pay upfront. You know, um I was in a position where I could um like have additional borrowing to cover some of that, um which again, relies on having a kind of healthy credit score, like healthy income, you know, so it's all with a kind of all these interdependencies that allow that to happen. So although it kind of looks like it was a
00:30:47
Speaker
You know, I made it look easy. It was made easier for me through that through the situation I was in. um But you made that happen. You kept your foot in your career. You've made sure that you've kept your income up. You've done all of those things, even if you weren't thinking, oh, I'm going to separate it now for a year's time. yeah You've kept yourself going. And like you say, it was your house, your mortgage, all of those things yeah gave you that really solid foundation to be able to make. so you've thought about this stuff even if you realize don't realize you've thought about this stuff you have thought I haven't I will hold my hands up to say I have not thought about this stuff because for whatever reason the financial sort of dependence mainly you know helped me in lots of ways and mainly you know but when I look back to actually you know my mum brought me up to really really independent women and for the last half years I haven't
00:31:36
Speaker
been thinking in that way at all because I didn't need to be and I feel grateful for that but at the same time it's a very scary place because it means that the rub can be pulled onto you and that's my own fault that's my own because I haven't had the it's just not the way I've either been brought up or think I never think of money or anything like that so I just
Societal Pressures and Redefining Success
00:31:55
Speaker
didn't think about it whereas you have thought about it even though you don't realise you thought about it and I think that's really But maybe I wouldn't have if I'd been with a partner who took some of that off me and kind of made me feel, it' because I've never really felt like I could be financially dependent on somebody. I never felt like anyone was there to really take that off me. yeah So, you know, yeah I think a lot of it, again, comes down to chance, you know.
00:32:17
Speaker
um if you you know if you're with somebody that is completely capable and financially independent themselves then you know who's to say in a different situation that I wouldn't have said do you know what actually ah you know I'm going to take time of work or I'm going to spend time with my children because you know that is the kind of post-a-pit perfection kind of idea of parenting, isn't it? As a mum, you spend all that time with your children. That's what we're supposed to do, according to the world, isn't it? Well, according to the world, but also to have it all, and to have your career and be that picture-perfect mum. So that's a complete... Well, is it, though?
00:32:55
Speaker
what just Is it not just the parenting thing as women? That's what society kind of makes us do. The career stuff is kind of the add-on and that's why it's so difficult because it's not set up fast to have it all. No, it's not. it's i mean it's That was put in as a marketing pitch to push us into work again. It would always be like looking after your children. you know being the mum, being the everything, holding the house together. That's still the role that women are supposed to have, isn't it? I agree. It's fundamentally very, very much is. Yeah. And actually, I will hold my hands up and say, I mean, I've been a Joe since I was 17 and I
00:33:30
Speaker
went from my family home where my mum had to do everything and you know she had multiple jobs and all of that thing to looking at his family where his mum was that pitch perfect stay at home, look after the house, you know look after the husband, dad worked, that's it. And I was like, well, I want that. So when we moved in together when I was 21.
00:33:47
Speaker
That's what I wanted. I was like, yeah, I'm going to be a housewife. I put a hand in everything. How a nice life. And I knew, and we had a kind of plan that when we do our children, I'll take the time off with it. And it was all because that's what Joe had seen and he'd had from his mom. And that felt right at the time. And now I look back at it and think,
00:34:08
Speaker
What the hell was I thinking? him Not because I, you know, now I want to go off and do my own thing. No, because I think, well, I want to be a model to my boys to show that women work too. I want to have that for myself. That's what I was brought as my inner drive. My ambition is all still in there just because I got married doesn't mean that disappears. Yeah. And but then, yeah, still wanting to be that that mum because.
00:34:30
Speaker
maybe I didn't have that picture as a child so then I wanted to create that so then it's this weird thing of what actually drives you and what you want to become as as a woman but this is and listen to society. Exactly but this is why it's so complex because not only is our own kind of past that is going to trigger what we want to do it is our current set of circumstances so whether we have a partner who can kind of take that mental load of the financial burden away from us which is you know, the case in my case, I don't need to worry about it. and But then I realized, oh, actually, there's a level of humility there. I think all of us are just trying to do the best given our own set of circumstances.
00:35:09
Speaker
And I think in a lot of cases, like, you know, like trialing. So for example, like you were saying earlier about the compressed areas. And I'm so glad that you had that moment to to realize, wait just a minute. If you don't take a moment to step back, you're like, actually, that's not sustainable. I'm going to change it. so and That was that mum pressure. and That was the thing. Why are you doing that? I've got children, but I'm not being a mum. And being a mum is sitting there, you know, like whittling.
00:35:35
Speaker
but You know, but it's that thing where you just like society kind of creates this thing where, you know, and not parenting right, unless you're baking cupcake. Yeah. You know, but like turning up and you know, school fair running the tombola and stuff. And I just think.
00:35:51
Speaker
you know, something has to do. Yeah, we need to have a, let's face it, we just, and I don't think it helps with social media nowadays too, because you have this kind of picture perfect view of what somebody's household looks like, like I i put up pictures, I'm very conscious that I don't also put up pictures of my kids having a meltdown, because I'm not going to get on my phone and video them doing that at that time, or whatever, and I'm just dealing with it, but you know,
00:36:14
Speaker
And I say, like from the outside world, you might just have a picture of somebody whistling a spoon, but you don't need see all the background and stuff that's going on. Like, you know, my kids screaming in my ear once I do it. And I think it's sort of.
00:36:26
Speaker
really having those realistic expectations and really breaking down what the actual norm is, as opposed to this sort of pretense that I think gets given to us and all, you know, in social media, in anything. This is like, oh my goodness, how many big things are we tackling here? Because not only on top of a gender, like I remember it, right? You said something to me and then mother fucker said it like a week later. I was like, Amy said that. And you said that.
00:36:54
Speaker
you know, like, we spend years at university, we spend years working, and then we become losers. And we were like, we were sold alive. Like, we were like, how on earth earth can we make this work? How on earth can we just sustain our career progression for what however many years that we study? Like, this this is broken. And then my other point was about social media. So on top of all this, trying to do this, like, which does seem to be impossible, and then we're talking about it. It's like looking on social media and seeing that, you know,
00:37:24
Speaker
like you know showcasing like all the nice bits and the whittling but also so much of our days mundane yeah and that's all that invisible low stuff which especially as a solar parent you are 100% responsible for all that invisible low stuff you know getting them to places and watching everything that happens in the house outside of the house pretty much that is you and that's the stuff that you you know, you won't share on social media or you you know your employer probably doesn't even know about all of that stuff. It's so, you know, hour by hour, we just break you down to a point where you're like a tiny bit of yourself.
00:38:00
Speaker
Yeah, and I know like recently, so obviously I don't iron. There have been times in my life when I've ironed. Right now, there's very little ironing that happens, I would say. There's a strategic washing line hanging is what happens. and um But that and like there have been times I'm like, I literally, there can't blow air like this.
00:38:19
Speaker
you know not important but like there's certain dresses that I can't wear or certain things so I'm just like I haven't got time to iron that so I'm actually gonna like get something to do some ironing for me. Yeah exactly and it's kind of like even those things it's like you feel like you should be able to do them and there is something so liberating about being like you know it's the same way I'm going to put my child in full-time nursery that day and he's going to have a great time and I'm going to have the afternoon off to do what I want to do. I'm going to get someone to do my ironing and I'm going to get someone to do my gardening. And this all sounds like really frivolous. I mean, I'm not talking like on a daily basis, you know, just as and when. But it's not because it's time and it's food. You don't have energy to know the analogy with it.
00:39:13
Speaker
You literally cannot do everything. No. Like, a society would really, really like you to think that you should be. Yeah. I'd totally agree. Society, whoever he was. Whoever is society, he is. Yeah. Let's face it, that's a he. A society was a person.
00:39:28
Speaker
But yeah, I do but i don't think i theme that's a really sensible choice because you work hard in your career and you are still working really, really hard to get that pay
Self-Care and Work-Life Balance
00:39:35
Speaker
packet back. And now, of course, you need to do those things and pay for those things that gives you that bit of time back for yourself, which will then ultimately give you time back for your children so you can be present with them instead of having to play ping. And makes you feel just like less crap, because that's the other thing. it's from You're doing all these things. When you're working, you're trying to be a parent, not a parent or otherwise. So I do strongly believe that a lot of people, even though they're not single parents,
00:39:58
Speaker
are single parenting their children in a relationship. I think there's a hell of a lot of that that goes on around that people don't speak about, which, you know, I have people say to me, like, I don't know how you do it. Oh my God, you're on your own. I like turn around. I'm like, you're doing the same thing. It's just you have to pick up a man's dirty socks at the end of the day as well. You know, let us like not forget that, you know, single parenting is exclusively for solo parents.
00:40:32
Speaker
up, you know, in that amount of adult conversation that we can have in one day. So, I'm gonna ask you two, a couple more questions, just a few ones that you wanna ask everybody, which is, so, with everything you know now, with your career and your children, what is one thing that you might tell to your younger self about that?
00:40:55
Speaker
I would say give yourself a break. That's what I would say it to my younger self. and I would say that probably for most of my adolescence, early adulthood, I feel like this kind of pressure to, you know,
00:41:12
Speaker
do it all is is a lot. And I feel like just kind of giving yourself the space to make mistakes and kind of be young and just focus on one thing at a time. I felt a lot of pressure to kind of be in a relationship, settle down to kind of, you know, that was what success was to me at the time. But when I look back now, it's you know, so far from the truth. Actually being in like relationships and kind of beholden to one person or whatever, that right there? It's a word, I think it's a word. You know, being, um I don't know. Yeah, being tied to one person in one situation, it's really limiting. I think, you know, just being, letting yourself off the hook and just kind of having as many experiences as you can.
00:42:05
Speaker
working in different places, getting more experience kind of building up your portfolio. So I've worked in the same place since I was 21, like even though I've done different jobs, you know, it's still quite limiting, isn't it? I think kind of not that rush to kind of get the stable job, the marriage, it's a thing kind of being able to go out and build yourself up and build your career and get your confidence. Yeah, and live a little, I guess. Live a little, make mistakes, you know, do jobs that aren't, you know, don't strive for that really well paid job, just kind of work out what you want to do and I mean, that's probably not very insightful. No, I don't think it's really refreshing because that is not what I really expect you to say at all. And I think and it's not how necessarily I would speak to my younger self because I haven't
00:42:47
Speaker
got stable, you know, i couldn't go back into a career, but I think actually say just living a bit and figuring out what you do and don't like and building and especially nowadays, people don't stay in the same job for a long period of time we have these seasons or these chapters or whatever you want to call it of your life and yes, this might get criticized for that but actually I think Having to build all those different types of skills in different places is really, really important on the day of the living. Different cultures, your different work environments, different cultures. There's such a good kind of, you know, work cultures, I think, that kind of but look look at how different places operate, what's expected of you, like where you can thrive as a woman, you know, there's lots of workplaces that don't support that.
00:43:26
Speaker
you're just kind of giving yourself time to work that out. Yeah and also then that gives you more choice like once you've had children then you can say okay well I've worked in these different areas what is it that I liked about these different things that I would now like to take forward now that because ultimately when you have a career when you're working with children every hour every minute that you're away from them and you're working counts and you want it to be something that's fulfilling and gives you a drive because only you can progress progress in that because otherwise what's the point in doing that is not going to give you what you need outside of the home. Now, I know that that was one of the last questions, but I just thought this was so interesting because I really like, you know, to give yourself a break. But I also, I'm just wondering, it's kind of like you're redefining your idea of success. Like, do you think your idea changed after relationships or was it after becoming a mother or do you think it was, was there a particular moment in which your definition of success changed?
00:44:23
Speaker
um I think my definition of success would have always been about earning most money, getting up right at the top of the pay scale, you know, promotion, information, promotion at the expense of my mental health or probably my emotional wellbeing. We have children.
00:44:43
Speaker
you can't do that anyway because, you know, I've got the most supportive employer at the moment. They're so great, like, especially my direct direct line manager, not, like, not trying to get permission or extra money to give her permission. She deserves a promotion. That's incredible. And, you know, that has massively enabled me to essentially have it all, which is what I feel like I'm sort of doing at the moment, albeit at like 75%. You know, I'm working, I'm being a full-time mum, got the house, got the,
00:45:13
Speaker
children who are, you know, doing okay, that would be like, you know, they could probably do a bit more whistling. No, no one needs to whistle. It's okay, love. In the regret of the day, she ever whistles. Is that happening? But it is like, you know, I don't, even if I could progress now and earn more money and like have more responsibility, I don't think I would because I think that balance bike I've been at burnout more times than I would care to think in the last 12 months and I just think there's more to life than just pushing yourself with your work but there is also that very strong argument to be had for earn enough to get your independence, earn enough to be self efficient.
00:45:55
Speaker
but also know your limits and kind of don't push yourself to that next level where you start to lose it all again. and That's it, it's about boundering that time isn't it and thinking about what's important and protecting yourself from burnout or whatever you know because there are too many things that are important now. Yeah and know when you've got a good thing, know when you've got a great bus. Yeah that's really great I mean I i feel like I want to end on that note but and hopefully you've got a great answer for the next one I think you might do now but If tomorrow, think about everything, if you could give yourself a bit of kindness and sang or doom and think for yourself, what would it be? I'd have a little nap. Yes! Great answer!
00:46:37
Speaker
Is there anything better you can do for yourself? I
Final Reflections on Self-Kindness
00:46:40
Speaker
love a nap. oh I'm really bad at napping. There's not enough of it. Oh, I'm terrible at it. But if if there was anything I was going to do to be kind to myself, that is what I'd do. yeah What I'd actually do is probably sit in the garden viin and on it yeah with Well, thank you so much, Emily. That was an incredible chat. I know I know you and I love you anyway, but that just made me love you even more.
00:47:04
Speaker
a Very welcome. Thanks for having me. Can we give you we give a virtual clap for Emily? Large studio audience. yeah yeah Oh wow, wouldn't that be great one day? It was so lovely to chat. It was! Until next time. Bye. Bye.