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Club Chat: Sickness
200 Plays10 months ago
Emma and Amy discuss every parent's worst nightmare: when your child gets sick. We talk about the juggle between work and illness, your rights sounding sick leave and tips and tricks for how to survive the back to school bugs.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Hi, I'm Amy. And I'm Emma. And this is a five hour club podcast where we navigate life between the school runs.
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello, hello. Hi, Emma. How are you? Do you know what? I am good. Been a rollercoaster. That's life. and ah How are you?
Burnout and Boundaries Discussion
00:00:29
Speaker
I honestly am. I have been on the brink of burnout because pause And I guess when I look back at why, I think we had birthdays and illness, hospital trips and solo parenting weeks and husband was away and everything else that goes on in between there, PTA quiz and all of this sort of stuff. And it was only sort of the last few days when I spoke to you that I really realized that I just couldn't get clear. And I was like, what is going on? It's just too much. And it was a conversation about, okay,
00:01:06
Speaker
something has to give yeah and we went back to our boundaries chat and I was like do you know what I just haven't been putting in the boundaries I haven't been able to because everything's been all over the place but I was like something has to stop and I need to take some time somewhere I was frustrated and knackered and and the last few days there's been a turn and point that I've been physically putting my phone like you've done before. yeah just like So when the boys come in from school, I would also faff while they're watching the TV and I'll be making dinner yeah and I've been putting it downstairs. So I can't get to it in that time because all that was doing was adding to my to-do list or adding to things. And I was then faffing around in the evenings and doing that kind of thing. And actually it wasn't benefiting me. yeah After we literally just set ourselves a challenge of let's
00:01:55
Speaker
put that fancy in in the evening, I was like, I'm not doing it. And the other thing I read, or I heard somewhere about just reading for three minutes in the evening, so I've been stopping at a certain time, I'm going to bed, reading a few pages of a book, and that's just been enough to break the cycle. It burned out because I had it, so you know me like, I can't do this, I can't do this, I'm freaking out. I was like, this is a lot, there's been a lot going on, and ah I think it's just timing wise, it just it's been a
Time Management and Solo Parenting
00:02:20
Speaker
lot. But I feel like it's turning, hopefully, maybe,
00:02:24
Speaker
at some point. Yeah. Oh, I'm so pleased. So do you feel that having that physical space away from the phone? Because let's face it, everything is on the phone, you know, and and we we, I think yeah we don't need to go into details about how he's just so it's a time gobbler, it's an energy gobbler, like, but does having that physical space, did that help you? I have to have that physical space, otherwise I We'll go in there to respond to an email for school, and then I'll end up responding on Instagram and clicking through there and doing all those things I have to have. There's too much I can do on my phone, so it has to be away from me. I have no self-control. So I'm like, okay, and it's the same with it. I have to give myself a time limit in the evening. I am stopping there, go to bed. If I need to do anything, it stops at this time, and then I read and get into bed. And it seemingly has helped a little. And it's broken that kind of,
00:03:13
Speaker
burn out because I just was feeling like I can't do this. Of course you can. If you think about, I suppose, when was it? Was it the week before last? Your youngest, he was really ill. You had a hospital visit and that's on top of then and then you're solo parenting for a while. You're running a business. You're doing so much and that doesn't include the PTA. That doesn't include the many messages. It doesn't include everything.
00:03:39
Speaker
It completely makes sense why you're feeling that way. So I'm so glad because I think, I think that's one of the signs of brunette, isn't it? Like when you actually can't stop. You can't stop. It's like an addiction. yes But I need to do this and that and you feel panicky and like everything in it. And then you're like, but you have no brain space to be creative or to think about things. You feel that everything. So anyway, I am less of a mess than I was yesterday.
00:04:04
Speaker
So yeah, so it did help. I just have to you actually, listen to myself. and my own When you're in the kick of it, it's kind of like being in a toxic relationship or it's being like in a toxic work environment. Like you have to take a step back sometimes or hear it from someone else to say this is what you need because putting those boundaries in place for yourself is so freaking hard sometimes because number one, I feel like we don't deserve it. That's how I feel. Number two, we're like,
00:04:37
Speaker
I don't know what my number two point is. My number two point is, you feel like you're doing it to yourself. You feel like there's a reason that you're doing it and it's your fault. That's how I feel. Well, I could just not do, I did say no to the PTA last week because I was like, I can't do that as well. So you have to start saying no, but I was like, that still wasn't enough to give me that cycle break that I needed, but it's because I feel like, well, I'm adding all this extra stuff to my own plate and I don't have to do this thing for his birthday. I don't have to do,
00:05:06
Speaker
But I want to do that, Stefan. You should be able to manage that, Stefan, to do those things that you want to do as well. You don't just have to do it. Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. And I think it, I think it's highlighting the importance for us as well of like how important these kind of check-in points with yourself sometimes because life can be chaotic and it kind of can be messy. And then should just take a step back and be like, actually, I need to go back to these really key routines and habits that are going to make sure that I don't burn it because I am exactly the same. And I, and I will burn it if I don't put those things in place. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I appreciate you and your, your wise-out, mouth and not a sprint, you know, all of that stuff. So yeah, but how about you? You're, you're not going out, you're on fire, you're doing your thing. Yeah, I'm really good because and so I had my first night away with four in five years since we've had our oldest son and um
00:06:07
Speaker
I slept for 12 hours. I sleep is what I had. and I know that that would be the chance, wouldn't it? That would be the chance.
00:06:31
Speaker
and And everyone would know yeah exactly what happened. So here's the thing. i I failed a little bit in my
First Night Away From Kids Experience
00:06:39
Speaker
challenge. I think we said we I was going to do this you know the the challenge. And I'm going to do it. And and i I've actually started it Monday, Tuesday. I was really good. And I was doing exactly the same. Like you said, I was turning my phone off at night, doing a bit of reading.
00:06:51
Speaker
because actually I feel like I'm permanently sick so that's what happened at the weekend like I was feeling quite run down but it was so nice to just be able to go out for like a proper day to do whatever the feck we wanted and what I wanted was a feeding situation? No!
00:07:17
Speaker
but the sleeping are so No, to do know what it was? Right. My favorite thing about a hotel is the breakfast. So I look forward to a leisurely breakfast. Cause the last time we went for a hotel was when we were in Germany and we had the kids with us and sure they were running right around the breakfast room. and There were no other kids there. So it was just extremely stressful. So I just wanted sausage in P. And I have a very particular way that I have my, you know, I've got my full fry up and then I do like my second course, my second copy of my pastries. That's what it was about. It was about breakfast and sleep and it was amazing. We won't tell Chris that, sorry. He doesn't listen anyway.
Is My Child Too Sick for School?
00:07:58
Speaker
But then of course,
00:08:00
Speaker
like so I was sick and then um on I can't remember what day it was was it Tuesday and then of course did my eldest was sick and it was that question of are you sick enough to go to stay at home are you sick enough to go to school because he had that um that horrible croup crooping sound cough, which can be really scary, can't it? And so he had that tritonite and he he was just, oh, that question of how sick is too sick to go to school. So then, of course, Tuesday was a juggle day, which, you know, he's a bit older. So I feel like it's easier to juggle. But that is ah the biggest question, isn't it?
00:08:42
Speaker
And actually that lead that we all come across as parents. If it's not us, it's them and then it's us and we can't recover. So that is, let's start with that then.
00:09:06
Speaker
We asked our lovely the Instagram community about, first of all, have their kids been sick since the start of the school year. And actually, it is quite, I think you'll probably guess the data, but we had 48% said yet once, at least yet, so then we had at least once with 27% say multiple times. Oh, already? Barely in mind really in October, the school started back about six weeks ago. Obviously we have some who may be coming from America that have also been feeding into this data. And then we had the lucky 26% that said not yet. Now I would fall into that in a sense where my eldest hasn't been sick off school, but my youngest has from nursery. So yes you know when you've got multiple kids, at least one of them is going to be sick at some point you know within a few weeks. yeah so
00:09:52
Speaker
for you this hit on Tuesday that your eldest was sick and your first question was well are they are they too sick to go to school or not so that's a good question so that's exactly it right so if I say to you okay I'm going to say this first of parenting in my opinion this is the thing I find the most challenging is sickness because let's face it we know that parenting is hard on a day-to-day basis but you've got things in place to help and you've got a routine etc etc right so when they get sick everything goes to shit right now not only that you know you're going to get sick
00:10:34
Speaker
So you're trying to manage being sick at the same time as they're being sick or even worse, like when they're healthy and then you're sick, you're trying to not like. what It is the worst. But they're bouncing around and you just want to lie down. It is the worst. And obviously they're at the juggle with work. So I find it the most stressful thing, right? Now if I say to you, okay, Amy, you've got a phone call. Your oldest is sick, he needs to come home from school. What is your first thought? Or in the morning, you're like, oh yeah, he's not very well. Like what is your very first thing that you think? Wow, it's that game plan, isn't it? It's kind of like, right. First of all, I think that's a great question to start with though. It's like, are they too sick to go to school? That's what we struggle with a lot. Because there's the obvious, like I remember when my eldest, he definitely was sick one day when it was my husband's birthday and he was lying on the couch, not wanting to open his presents. And I was like, okay.
00:11:23
Speaker
He's too sick. He's gonna have to stay at school today. Yeah. At home today. So I think it's, you know, that was an obvious one. I think good strategy. Get them a lot of presents. Crap them all. They're too sick to open the presents. They're too sick to go to school. For me, I always, it's that thing where they're like, if they don't move off the sofa, that's a genuine, I think you're too sick.
00:11:41
Speaker
If they, the first point, if they see that you're wavering or maybe they can stay home and their first question is, what can I watch on TV? Then I'm like, uh-uh, you ain't do sick, my love, you're going to school. Because and that for me, I don't know, people have to think about that. It's like, when they have a sick day, do you let them watch TV?
00:11:58
Speaker
Oh, it's such, it's such a tricky one. Well, can I just say you're giving really good tangible advice because I genuinely need to know the answers here. So for me, I like, I go with the obvious ones, like do they have temperature? No, but these are good. These, these are good. I think secondary ones, but I just go for the primary classification. So like the temperature.
00:12:18
Speaker
The cough is a tricky one. Cause if they're coughing, Oh my God, you remember back in the days of pandemic, if they had a cough, sure, they couldn't go anywhere. They couldn't go anywhere. 14 days. 14 days. And if they have a cough, the cough is a tricky one because Sure, anyone could have a cough for many different reasons and you're absolutely fine, but it's that creepy one. It's the one where it's just started, I think, because mine often get a cough and it lasts forever. And I've been told by a doctor that kids can get coughs for up to 12 weeks, even when they're not contagious and they're not sick. So i after the COVID thing, I would send them, if they've got a cough and had it for a while, it's persistent. It's not affecting anybody else. They're fine. I agree. They can go in. But it's that thing of, okay, well, this is contagious. is this gonna
00:13:00
Speaker
could be given to somebody else. Yeah, I think that that's exactly it. Like obviously through the tummy bug you need to wait there, like however many virus and all that kind of stuff. I think you're right. I think like it's instinctive, isn't it? And like knowing if your child is off, but that's really tricky because then they can become wise. And that's exactly it. Like what do you do? Do you let them watch TV? So I don't let, I find, yeah, I try to limit the playing as much as possible.
00:13:29
Speaker
basically not playing, because if they're sick enough to stay at home, then they shouldn't have the ability to play. They stay too sick, I know, but then they have this weird like second buzz of as soon as you let them know that they're not going to school, or they could be like, ooh, hang on, because they probably do need to be at home, because either they're contagious or they they are often, they're not well and they do need to recover, but yeah, it's that fun. Making this a fun day, yeah where you know they get to do all the things that they, you know want to do when they're at school or they can't but it's yeah they get tricky so my eldest has figured out this trick of the whole 48 hours off school if you've got a runny poo and he'll get need to check if he's had a bit of not even like a proper runny poo you know just they could be like I think that's too runny mum I can't go to school I was like absolutely not that's absolutely soft poo fine in you go
00:14:18
Speaker
Oh my God, he's on the poo. That is That's why I have to be really smart in my kind of response for when he says he's too sick. Because you feel really bad, right? You feel when they're going to your five, feel too sick. And you know, often it's because they're tired, but then there's, you always get that guilt thing is where you think they're not too sick but then it's actually the freedom to them actually becoming properly sick but you don't know that then they go to school then you get the call and then basically it's a freaking minefield.
Parental Guilt and Decision-Making
00:14:48
Speaker
It is a minefield and I've done both I've had them at home when actually they really should have gone into school and I've had the opposite and I was like holding his hand and dragging him down the lane he was like I'm so tired I was like ah you'll be brand so like where it's a metal grain. I really think I need more help with this. It really is really, okay, so we didn't ask this question, but if you have any tips around anti-deciding, apart from that, I think the temperature is a great one, but it's that annoying thing where I need the quantitation stuff, not quality. And basically you just have to have rules. But for me, it's like, yeah, I've had the same thing with that.
00:15:29
Speaker
whatever you do you're going to feel a little bit of guilt around it whether it's for your kids for work for whatever yeah and I had that with um when the post went crazy yeah and youngest was sick, I didn't know how sick he was because he didn't have the obvious like temperature and thing, he was just very lethargic and he hung out with me in the sofa while I, you know, responded to things and I look back now and actually that's where he was sickest he's ever been because he got these horrible mouth ulcers a couple of days later and the the doctors, you know, and they make you feel really bad like oh this is the worst we've seen in a while and you're like oh do you know that he seemed fine apart from that but he had no other signs of anything else and I was sat there on my laptop and now I felt like a hideous mother because I
00:16:12
Speaker
was prioritizing that over just... ah he was cuttingling I was cuddling him, but it was that kind of... But even if you didn't have that going on, you wouldn't have necessarily picked up on that either. Do you know what I mean? i And we do beat ourselves up then, or like it's our fault, but not we're not trained medical professionals, although it is part of our role to be nurses. Obviously like we're we're not to know. I know I have to be, I do have a ah very, I have a qualified sister-in-law who is a pediatrician yeah i mean and I just literally sent her, she has an inbox full of rashes that she's my pocket but not everybody has that and you just have to make a call and stick it, it's when you wobble.
00:16:55
Speaker
I know. They do. They know the wobble. I do. I wobble. No, but I also want to say, right. We are just talking about like normal run of the mill, like coals and tummy bugs and things like that. Right. We've both had a glimpse of more serious illnesses and challenges and having to go to hospital.
Coping with Child Hospitalizations
00:17:16
Speaker
Right. That is another level. Now, when I say like, even just like normal run of the mills, coals and places, just like that, that is really stressful.
00:17:25
Speaker
We, we've had a glimpse. We've both had to take our children to hospitals on multiple occasions, like with breathing difficulties. That is the most stress I've ever felt. And, and think about all of these parents who have children with chronic health issues. And I'm incredibly lucky that my youngest is on really good medication, like his, his asthma is stable.
00:17:49
Speaker
but we've been through that at one point in one summer and you're kind of going through this at the moment. For no anonymous band as you did and only I have a slight glimmer of it with my youngest but yours was so intense and only sort of having gone through my bit I really kind of get a tiny bit of how you must have been feeling and your What happened to you? Yeah, but but you are getting that sliver and that's all it takes to to to understand. We can all empathise. We can all empathise with parents in very different situations. But there was a, like since he was four months old, he struggled and we had to go in and out of hospital. So that first year was really challenging. But actually it was the summer before last. I don't know if you remember, but every time he got a cold, we had to go into hospitals. So that was once
00:18:38
Speaker
ah once a month, essentially. So four times in that summer. And previously, when he was a baby, he had to go on oxygen because we didn't know. And he had to go on an IV trip. And at one point he had to go to ventilator. So I think it's scary because we know what can happen with the breathing difficulties.
00:18:57
Speaker
And I think we've been to ICU, we've been to HDU, we've been to it multiple times and every single time. And this is why I think you need to bear in mind the last couple of weeks that you have been through it because even if you're going to A&E for an overnight stay, you've got the combination of that anxiety, like extreme anxiety of looking at the breathing, trying to decide whether they're going to go in or out, trying to navigate the juggle of what do we do with the other child? and you know And like, there's so much to it. And then, I don't know about you, but for that, you know, for three days, like you're not sleeping, they're not sleeping, they're incredibly sick. And then I need to take the week after to recover even emotionally and physically of, whoa, that was a lot. You know, so this is just normal run-of-the-mill sickness and the juggle. Well, that's it. And it is, like you say, even without that, or with that other additional stuff, normal run-of-the-mill sickness is still, it takes you
00:19:49
Speaker
if you don't get sick yourself, it still takes that time to recover, to rebalance, to rejig everything, because it's really hard in addition to all of the normal stuff that is going on anyway. And that's the point, isn't it? It's kind of like sickness is is something that we all go through and have to manage, but it doesn't mean that it's any easier. It doesn't mean, its especially when we've got other priorities, other children, work, whatever is else going on, it's It's hard, it's a hard thing to juggle. And I don't think we get enough support yeah from the outside yeah
Workplace Sick Pay Policies for Parents
00:20:20
Speaker
to do that. So I, as, yeah, we ask the community sort of in that sense, what support or what is your work policy surrounding sickness? Because that's the thing, isn't it? When you're trying to
00:20:31
Speaker
manage it. Your first thought is, okay, well, how sick are they? Are they too sick? And then what do you do about it? yeah And I guess, depending on your work situation, that will yeah figure out what you are going to do, but that's how you're going to manage it. is that So when we asked that, we had quite a, sadly, quite a ah bleak look at, you know, what work offers in terms of sort of dependent care and all those kinds of things. And we had a lot of that they had no sick pay for them or their children. um You know, you had, I mean, whoever this employer is, I want to know who they are. They offer eight months of paid sick pay for them and eight days for kids. So, I mean, that's massive. It was, yeah. That you could have eight months continuous paid sick pay and then eight days for kids. That is like a eight days. But even the eight days for kids, like, so this is the problem, right? And, and you know, we can talk about
00:21:23
Speaker
policies and and and um what's in the law. But if you're taking unpaid sick leave, you still have to pay for that childcare. That's the problem. so that it so that is that That was an incredible example, but that was that was the only example. You had the ones who had two or three days maybe for their dependent sick days, but then somebody made a great point that said, but I have two kids.
00:21:44
Speaker
So that's actually a day and a half each. And if you think on average they mainly get sick at least once in a time. So that's yeah potentially six times a year or more. Without the multiple when they've got, you know, running poo and they're off for two days. like but you know it's There isn't enough put into people's workplaces to help make them feel like they can take that time yeah to support them. Because then when I asked the question of, okay, so what do you do about it? Many people were like, well, I struggle and survived. You have the odd one who said,
00:22:19
Speaker
First thing I do is just focus on them and not worry. But that was the minority. And I think the reason why is because we are not supported outside of it. There was one who shared a really lovely photo. It was actually of that day. She shared a photo of her kid playing. She was looking after them and it said there was no pressure from her employer to do anything other than look after her sick child. And isn't that incredible? That is what it should be like. yeah yeah yeah You should not feel like you have to sit there on your laptop next to them on the sofa. You should not feel like you have to make up that time in the evening. You should feel like you can focus on them and take that time with them because that's the way to recover, isn't it? They're going to recover quicker. And then if you're sick, you feel like, okay, well, I can't take that time off in addition for me to recover because I've got all this stuff I need to catch up on. and yeah So there's
00:23:08
Speaker
just no time to be sick, basically, from an employee's point of view, from many out
Parental Identity and Workplace Impact
00:23:12
Speaker
there. And it's like, why is this not something that we are given it as a benefit, as a payroom? Because we'd rather that than a flipping gym membership, whatever it But it's so so, so, so true. And I've got two things to say on this. So in my, back in the day, three weeks ago, in my paid, paid employment, um Like I just saw a glimpse of how, like what amazing managers and they can make you feel. So I was, you know, definitely in the camp of like the amazing managers who would say, take that time, mind your child. They trust me. I was honest. They are too sick to be home. And, you know, I would be the type of employee to try and probably do some bits on the laptop, but they're like, no, like don't, you know, don't have that meeting.
00:24:03
Speaker
And it just meant I was able to block out that time and really be there for them. But also, I have so much more of a positive outlook towards my company and you know my my particular project that I was working on. So you know just anecdotally, in my experience, those managers make such a massive deal. But that it's going to be hit and miss. It depends on your manager. It depends on your workplace culture. For me, it depends on you know the project that I'm working on.
00:24:27
Speaker
And then the other thing is, actually, you know, I love my research. There's been some interesting research that I've come across, right? No. I know. So we know, right. I'm going to, I'm going to say this, this, this to you. So let's say you're in the workplace, right? And you're working away and, um, I'm trying to think of a particular situation. Okay. So let's say you're working and you can't go through.
00:24:51
Speaker
particularly a school event, right? Can't go to a sporting day. Or you're working later and someone asks who's minding your child, something like that, right? So you might have particular feelings. So what these researchers um measured is something called parental identity threat. So these are kind of feelings of shame. a So if something happens in the workplace that make you question whether you're a good parent, right? So they measure this parental identity threat.
00:25:18
Speaker
And really, this is a this is a ah study to to look at the effects of parental shame and on the effects that it has in the workplace. And we know all this, we know this anecdotally, but I love that there's some research to show this. And surprisingly, parents who report feelings of shame also tend to be less productive in the workplace. Shocking. I know, it's shocking, isn't it? So in the short term, they're less productive. And then in the long term, it can lead to much higher staff turnover as unhappy workers quit. Now that's not necessarily in that particular research, that particular research is like more electric productivity on a short term scale.
00:25:54
Speaker
but also in the BBC article, and like obviously these are no brainers. So I think, you know, what my previous manager said and what you what you said about your talking there that their employers can make them feel that they can just take that time, really focus time. They're not going to be feeling that parental identity threat. They're not going to be feeling those feelings of shame. They're going to have that, what's the word, barriers? What's the barriers?
00:26:20
Speaker
Boundaries. Come on out, we did our podcast. I know, right? I've forgotten it. So the boundaries in place to be like, okay, I'm now going to mind and and I'm fully present and I can mind them. And be a parent and then not have that guilt that you then thought of not being good enough by, you know, cutting up with them and, you know, watching 10,000 hours an hour of poor patrol, but then you're not, you know, feeling guilty that there's things going on. You know, you just don't, that guilt and that shame is just,
00:26:50
Speaker
It's an additional thing that we just do not need as a parent. And I think, yeah, there was a lot from when people said, you know, when we asked about how they manage it, it was just that you could see that they just were feeling like they just had to juggle it. They just had to figure it out and struggle and survive because there was no other choice. There's no other way, but that shouldn't be the way that it is, but it is sadly. Do you know something? I don't think that we asked, but that's an interesting one is who's the default parent to be called. So interestingly, so this came out actually, because I did it. Yeah, because I said, well, how do you manage it? Yeah. And for me, in my situation, I'm the default parent, I will get called probably grandparents get a call before. But you know, because he has certain hours that he has to work with him, but I'm the one who will then take the time to care for them, take my time out of work to look after them, do all of those things to, you know, be there for them. And
00:27:46
Speaker
But when I asked how they manage it, you had a good, nice proportion that said, well, normally it's me, but then when we look at, you know, if it's a long-term kind of sickness, you know, a few days, then then the husband gets involved and they share it. One, I really like this idea that one person says, she works from home Monday, Tuesday. Her husband does Wednesday, Thursday. So they just hope that somebody isn't sick on a Friday because they don't really want to recover it essentially. today But it's kind of like having that game plan of right and very clear boundaries around you you know, we we share this as responsibility. Because if you think about it, like, okay, well, one employee might give three days, another employee might give five days, well, actually, between you, you have eight days to use. Yeah, I'm not gonna ask that question to my husband to know how many days, six days he has. It's gonna be interesting. Good question. You know, if you think about it as a shared responsibility, as it should be, really, then, you know, you have a little bit more time to play with in some sense, but typically, you know,
00:28:41
Speaker
That completely makes sense. And my friend did that exact thing. I remember she had a game plan. She sat down with her husband and thought, actually, what makes sense? you know I work in this location. You work in this location. like These are my really busy days. if you know If she gets sick, I can take her on these days. You can take her on those days. And actually, to be fair, I did ah more of a short-term solution with Chris. It would always be,
00:29:02
Speaker
okay who has the more important meeting and it you know it might just be the juggle in that respect yeah you're really good at that i do feel like you're you share the load within a day depending on what meetings you have going on so i think that you are a really good example of that but it is it's kind of like who else do you then have if you cannot do it if your husband cannot do it you know you have that really you know, it always happens, isn't it? When they're sick, it's on that really important meeting day, on that really important event. You just, I think it happened when I went out to London at the time. He was sick. He wasn't too sick to, you know, that I felt like I needed to be at home with him, but he was too sick to go to nursery. So he ended up going to, you know, a mother-in-law rather than staying at home or going to nursery. So
00:29:41
Speaker
it's about relying on that village and it's item that goes back to that question of who has that village and you know when do you make use of them and a lot of people say that they just depend on their grandparents it needs to be same you know who gets the call it's that sort of emergency situation that you know mum down on around to pick up the phone they won't work so grandparents get called. So that's the reality of the situation like everyone's village is different and that's the problem I know in the UK anyway I'd love to know if there's anyone out there than anyone out there from different countries. hello and Like ad hoc emergency childcare, and I'm not talking about if your child is sick, i I'm talking about other reasons you might need ad hoc emergency childcare because we don't have grandparents around, we don't have family around and
00:30:27
Speaker
bloody hell it's hard and I tell you the hardest bit is when they have to go to hospital because then return a juggle and it would be really nice to have like Chris in there with me but I've always had to do it by myself all the hospital bits And I'd like to say it's fine. It's not, it's not great, but everyone's, it's kind of like, do you remember that analogy of when we were in the pandemic, we're all in a boat, but we're in different boats and we all have different set of circumstances and not everyone has that support and it's so bloody hard. So let's make our society, our societal norms so that the workplace can be more forgiving for people and increase benefits of
00:31:09
Speaker
Sick leave? Well, and we get I mean, I would hope so. that is That's our aim. That is at least one of our aims
Legal Rights for Parents in Emergencies
00:31:15
Speaker
to do that. I mean, when looking at this, I was like, well, actually, what are the rights around yeah sick leave and the sick pay and all of that kind of things. And it just depends in terms of sick pay per employer and all that kind of things. But actually, we do have some rights. And um as if there is an emergency on somebody who depends on you and then that can be you a child, it can also be a spouse or a carer or you a grandpa or a parent but somebody who who has an emergency situation they need you, you can leave work, you have a right to do that and working families are UK really good at sort of sharing those rights and if you ever have any issues or any questions around that they've got a hotline where you can ask them actually what is my right here, how long can I stay off for, what am I entitled to at work, where you know how much can I get paid, that kind of thing you know And I thought that was quite interesting. I was like, okay, we do have a right to leave work if somebody needs you and so yeah and that's great. But that's, you know, it's only when the school calls you yeah or it's not for if you need to take a day off work and they're just sick. You can't, you know, you don't have a right to to leave work essentially for that or when you're in touch to any pay or anything. It's the pay that it's to pay, isn't it? Like, so I have to be honest, I didn't know that there was that legal right
00:32:30
Speaker
for the dependents and they go through and they, and they they're working around, they're so good, but they also give examples of, okay, well, what is a dependent? What is an emergency? And, you know, So you can't get this time off for a sports day, you know, for something that that's planned. And you're right, it's unpaid. It's good to know that it's unpaid. It's good to know that we can have that time um and what we're entitled to. And I didn't know that that we were actually. These things are not made known, I think. I think because I think I always get the impression that these things are sort of hidden or raised, but nobody takes the piss. Honestly, it feels like, you know, if you highlight these things that we actually are entitled to and we deserve or whatever, and then
00:33:10
Speaker
it's a bit like the parental leave which is a whole other conversation in itself but if you actually look at what you're entitled to in terms of parental leave until they're 18 you know there's something there yeah and there's actually lots of holes and loopholes within it if you actually read it but anyway another conversation but I guess employers don't want My feeling is, you know, you're giving it to one employee, they might take a mile and somebody else might do that. And to deer it's actually, well, you know, a lot of us are parents in the workplace and it's having that trust that they're going to get things done. They're going to, you know, work is not the priority when you get sick. It shouldn't be. Exactly. It really comes down to trust, autonomy.
00:33:52
Speaker
And also, you know, you know, the thing that we all hear when and we're in the newborn phase, it's just a face. It is just a face. The kids, I already feel it. Oh, I'm going to have to be jinxed myself. I know I keep saying it, but like they're three and five. It's, I know. I'm not going to jinx it, but ultimately they're going to grow up.
00:34:15
Speaker
it will get easier. And I know that when they're younger and when they're babies and when they're toddlers and when they're getting sick all the time, it it's incredibly challenging.
00:34:26
Speaker
So to be able to have that workplace culture where you trust your employee and you value their skills and you value that like I mean let's just think about it right isn't it so much better to be able to give that trust with that parent and to spend maybe that one or two days off with their child instead of them being unproductive at work feeling like choice, feeling guilty,
00:34:48
Speaker
Like, what's the point? Exactly, it's true. It's like, what are you trying to achieve there? Yeah. And actually, that leads me quite nicely onto, and maybe we'll end with this, is a really nice tool that's ah very blastically for mother-kind shares and what she now does when her kids are sick or in a situation where she sort of has to make a judgment call and and make a plan, basically.
The APT Method for Sick Days
00:35:06
Speaker
And she calls it her is APT, which stands for accept. So you accept that it's happening, all right? Your kid is sick. You just got a call from the school. yeah Oh, fuck it, but it's happening, right? yeah yeah So it's one of those things that happens. The next is peer, which is prioritized. And that is where you prioritize. And if you've got a really strong co-partner and parent where you prioritize what needs to be done.
00:35:31
Speaker
Is it that you've got a really stressful day at work and you need to stay at work? Is it that they can go and collect them from school? Is it that you know you go and pick them up first and then you figure that stuff up later? What needs to be done first and then you kind of deal can deal with the rest of it. So you prioritise and you work together on that. And the third one, the tea, is trust. Now, she said this is, for her, it's so so it's a coaching tool to sort of trust in yourself that you can handle this.
00:35:58
Speaker
Because let's face it, I mean, you have but you've have had much worse situations than you are getting into now with sickness and things. So you know that you can handle a lot of stuff thrown at you. But in that moment, you have to trust yourself that you can handle this. This is not something you cannot handle. You are strong enough. You've got support around you. You can do it.
00:36:15
Speaker
For me, the trust is also there. I feel like that's a responsibility that you almost share with others. I've got a trusted employee that you can worry about. You've got a trusted support network that you can depend on. so It's about trusting yourself. Yes, you can handle it. If you've got someone else around you, you can handle it. but Also, you should be able to trust the people around you to know that this is a short space of time.
00:36:37
Speaker
you're gonna get over it, you know, and it will it will happen and everything will be okay, hopefully. So it's about that just, and I think that's for me that was quite a clear thing to think about, okay, yeah, that's quite a nice thing I can use, next time they sit, do all of those things, not freak out about it, and know that it's going to be okay.
00:36:56
Speaker
God, that's brilliant, isn't it? I think those three things are so key. I think we we do we tend to do the prioritizing you know um naturally but ah to be able to define it.
00:37:10
Speaker
that, oh, the first and the last one in particular, but accept that level of acceptance, because, you know, what's the point in in in worrying about it? you should You do just have to accept it. You just have to accept it, yeah. Like you say, there's no point in worrying about what the impact of this is going to be, it's happening. Exactly. So deal with it, put on your big girl pants and get on with it and trust that you've got a system in place that you're going to get through this.
00:37:34
Speaker
I love that so much. Right, that's going on the wall. We'll put it on your YouTube chat wall. Exactly. That's an APT. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. Well, if nothing else, if your kids are sick at the moment, we wish you well and we hope that maybe that gives you some comfort that, you know, we all do go through it and we get it and just share the load and don't feel guilty because it happens. It's horrible that you're doing everything you possibly can to get through it together and well enough and hopefully you'll come out at the end and you won't get sick. Yeah, fingers crossed. You're definitely not not alone and APT. APT, Set Prioritized Trust. Yeah. Amazing. And yeah, that's it for now. We'll talk to you soon. Speak soon. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.