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EPISODE 128: THE MILITARY IS TERRIFYING!
1.1k Plays2 months ago
Brave men and women have fought and given their lives in their military… but what happens when the military fails them? Or leads them into terrifying endeavours? Learn more and listen in today!
HORROR IN THE MOVIES
Who’s out there pairing PREDATOR and JACOB’S LADDER?! This podcast, right here!
WHATCHA BEEN WATCHIN’, BITCH?!
Listen in to hear what we’ve been watchin’... bitch!
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
Frigay the 13th horror podcast is a proud, independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit frigay13.com. I can't believe we joined the Marines! Andrew, this is the army. We're already off to a bad start. Yeah, maybe they shouldn't let gays in the military. I mean, what are we gonna do in the army? Exactly! This isn't gonna be fun at all. Alright man, shower time! Oh, nice. Oh, I like that now.
00:00:30
Speaker
It's episode 128. The military is terrifying.
00:00:38
Speaker
I am the writing on the wall, the whisper in the
00:00:57
Speaker
You are in real life. Doubtters, the Doomsters, the Gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong. You're out there mumbling. Where are you gonna go? Where are you gonna run? Where are you gonna hide? Nowhere. Because there's no one like you left.
Family Military History and Experiences
00:01:18
Speaker
What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now! Let's go! What are you waiting for, huh?
00:01:27
Speaker
I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. Sometimes that is better. no experience no job I could do that job. But who'd give me the chance? Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. don't ask for experience. We give it. You won't read it in a book. You'll live it. Pick a service. Pick a challenge. Set yourself apart. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. What a great place. It's a great place to start.
00:02:07
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of Friday, the 13th Horror Podcast. My name is Maddie and I'm Andrew. And if this is your first time with us on Friday, the 13th Horror Podcast, number one, hello, how are you? We're glad you joined us today or this evening or whenever you're listening to this. um This is our one hundred and twenty eighth episode of the podcast that talks all about horror, horror in real life and in the movies from a queer perspective.
00:02:36
Speaker
Um, so listen, if it if it is your first time with us, let me give you a rundown of how this little, this little show works. Right. Number one, I like this. yeah Yeah, go back and listen to the first 127. Don't worry. We'll wait for you. We'll still be here. Um, you can probably skip the first 10 or so, and then come back to those later.
Military and Horror Film Discussion
00:02:54
Speaker
Cause we don't sound very good.
00:02:55
Speaker
in those to be honest. But basically, this is the show. We talk about a major theme and the theme for today is the military. The military is terrifying. So in these next 20 or so minutes, you're going to hear us talk about a couple of stories and our own thoughts about the military. Got it? Good.
00:03:13
Speaker
Then we do a thing called what you've been watching, bitch, where Andrew and I talk about what we've been watching. It's pretty easy. And then another segment where we talk about two films, two horror films that connect to the theme. And today, friends, those films that I'm speaking of are Predator and Jacob's Ladder, two really good films to connect with on the military. So it's going to be an interesting little episode.
00:03:38
Speaker
Now, thinking about the military, um I mean, look, my family has a ah good bit of military history. I'll just tell you about it really quick. um my um I've had a number of nephews who have been in the military. um I've had um a nephew in the Marines. I have a few now. I i have one that actually just joined the army um and I have a few others that are in the army. um Some of them fought in Afghanistan um and one of them, the the Marine, he he really fought in Afghanistan. He was in he was in the He was in the worst of it, to be honest. um My dad was in the Navy. um He was in the Navy right around the Korean War. He didn't actually fight in the Korean War though, although his great his gravestone does say Korea on it as though he did, which we all find kind of funny. um My sister was also in the Navy. s And then this one i always this is one I always love to share.
00:04:29
Speaker
My grandpa, my mother's father, um he was born, my my mom is very old. She's going to be 88 this year, right? um Her dad was born a very long time ago, like literally was born in the 19th century. And he's, of course, I never met him. um He is so old that he also fought in a war. He fought in the Spanish American war.
00:04:54
Speaker
Oh my gosh. So yeah, like my grandfather was in the Spanish American fucking war, which is ah a little factor that I love to share because people are like, wait a minute. When was that war? And I'm like, yeah, look that up. It's going to freak you out that I'm talking about that right now.
00:05:09
Speaker
um And the thing is this, you know we're talking about the military being terrifying
Military Draft and Recruitment
00:05:13
Speaker
today. I i i want to say right off the bat that I have a deep respect for people who go into the military. It is a huge sacrifice and it is um you know putting your life in danger. um The aspects that we're going to talk about today are you know things that also suck about the military.
00:05:29
Speaker
And so for all the heroism and all the really good that that you know the military can both have happen and can represent, it can also do a lot of fucking shitty, terrible things and treat people in awful ways. And then also just like go kill people in countries that probably shouldn't be killed. That's just the reality of it.
00:05:47
Speaker
so um So yeah, that's where we are on this. And Andrew, I think, um you know, tell me a little bit about, because I know you have in the notes here that one of the things you were really ah afraid of when you were a young person, and I remember this too, was um was the draft. Tell me about that.
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, so I'll just give you a little bit of personal history on on kind of my military, I don't know, pacifist ways. But like I and i ah hate war. I don't understand as a world why we need it. I don't understand why we try to overtake each other. I don't i i literally don't and my brain can't comprehend it.
00:06:29
Speaker
um i had a grandparent that i barely knew that fought in vietnam but that was kind of it so i don't have as much experience as like maybe your family does um but i do remember back in the day in high school where we had, you know, like, uh, did you have a cafeteria? Because our, ours kind of like doubled as like a a rec room slash cafeteria. Are you about to say when you took the as fab test?
00:07:02
Speaker
No, no, no, no, no no no got you no, no, but like, um, so like we had like an, an area of our high school that was right off of the gym and it kind of doubled as a lunch room, but also as like, also as like where the play would be or like where the band would play or like a multi use space for your high school. Yes. Cause we were poor. And that speaking of being poor, what was in our lunch room almost every single day?
00:07:32
Speaker
either the Navy, the not the Air Force, the Air Force is too rich for us, um the Marines or the infantry. Oh, yeah, there were always like, and there was always like a little table off to the side with younger men just waiting to recruit us. And I tell you what, if you showed literally an ounce of interest they would call your house every single night every single day and try to recruit you oh yeah i don't know if you have a similar experience but like i just also i just always remember them being i remember present
00:08:08
Speaker
um that So that the test that I just mentioned there, the ASVAB test, that's like the test that you take. ah like i I don't know if every high schooler has to take that. We did. like We did. But at least when we were kids, we did and you did too. And like it like it was like the SAT t kind of for the military basically.
Conflicting Views on Military
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah. So I remember I took it and I took it really earnestly because I was just in a very earnest child and i'm I'm still an earnest person now quite frankly. but like apparently I like did the best out of anybody and for a while they wouldn't stop calling me to go to the military and I was like you really you don't want me this is not gonna work yeah like no no and that's like
00:08:48
Speaker
i My one days in the military, you know, I know my my unpopular opinion kind of about the military is that I really do feel like they prey upon like lower income people. I don't think that's and I don't think that's unpopular. I think that that's pretty well known, Andrew. to I'm just ah I mean listen like i I kind of like I'm on this weird line when it comes to the military because I share a lot of the same things that you talked about about like respecting and like understanding but then I also like have this like weird like
00:09:21
Speaker
in the back of my brain, like but it's all propaganda to just kill people. like I don't like this. know I mean, look, i I hear where you're coming from. And and so I think for me, like I think about the sacrifice that like my nephew made fighting yeah in Afghanistan. I think about the sacrifices that my that my nephew Jordan makes. And he he's ah he's a pretty high ranking officer in the army now.
00:09:43
Speaker
I mean, look, he's he's got a good life and he's got a wife that he loves and they have a you know a nice dog. But like he has to sacrifice quite a bit. He has to move around all the time. Sometimes he gets deployed places that we have literally no idea where he is because it's like top secret. I mean, I'm not joking. It's like top secret shit. And that is a... and This is gonna sound dumb, and I really don't mean it to, but like as somebody who had to move away from everybody that he loves, you know what I mean? like I understand that. that's a set That's a fucking sacrifice. And then on top of that, you like might have to go like fight and like maybe die for something that maybe you don't even believe in. And see and that and that's why, like for me, like I think that you know look i think ah unfortunately, given the the the state of humanity,
00:10:32
Speaker
We sort of need to have militaries. It's just a fact of life. And so because we need to have them, I think that we need to respect those people so incredibly much that we never send them into battle unless it is the very, very last resort because they might die.
00:10:50
Speaker
And that's what bugs me is seeing presidents that are just terrible sending these yeah these most of the time very young men and women into battle or into places where they are put in danger where they shouldn't even be in the first place. yeah And that's the time and were we're sending them to fight other kids in other countries. I mean, what a what a ridiculous thing it is. What a ridiculous world we live in. But anyway, it is let's talk about the draft because I don't know about you, but as a kid of the early to mid 80s. The draft was like on our mind for some reason. Like, ah do you do you remember getting your selective service card in the mail? I do. I do. Me too, man. And it fucked me up. Um, listen, I am a scared little boy. like I am not scared right now, folks. I am not. I am not a person that's going to provoke literally anything like Andrew is not. He's not a fighter.
00:11:47
Speaker
I'm not. No, i i I love literally everybody. Like I try to help where I can and I do what I can and like I just don't have that bone in my body. I don't, I wasn't born with it apparently. So like the draft or I guess like when I was looking this up, I didn't even know it had another word. Conscription. I didn't even know that was real.
00:12:07
Speaker
um was really something that I was afraid of as a kid. And so i when I looked into it, it's interesting because the the draft that we know of is really from only 1940 to 1973. Interesting. ah Because all other times that the draft was implemented was in times of war.
00:12:30
Speaker
However, from 1940 to 1973, this was during peacetime. I mean, and I put that in quotes peacetime, but like we we were not in active war when this happened. Yeah. And so, you know, they and then and then, of course, Vietnam happened and then anyone who was 18 to 25 was basically in trouble. ah And it's it's it's a lottery. It's the fucking Hunger Games of like Who knows? like And it's scary to me. like I don't know. like um So basically, to this day, we still do have law that continues to permit compulsory conscription of men between 17 and 44. So Maddie, you only got one more year. No, no, two more years. Two more years. two more Oh, sorry. Sorry. I didn't mean to hate you. know it's It's funny. i just I just posted a thing about my birthday, and everyone thinks I'm 43 now. And I'm like, no, I'm 42.
00:13:29
Speaker
for i Like don't add another year on yet, please But like the original was 18 to 25 and just think about that like think about 18 to 25 where you were at in your life Like you didn't know what the fuck was going on You were just barely like scraping by and trying to figure out like what adulthood was let alone being sent into Millet like into the military. That's insane to me Yeah, sure, but I don't know like the world that we live in, I don't know how to get around that. you know what i mean like well i mean think that here's Here's the conundrum for you. right so We might agree that the war in Iraq was a complete disaster and useless. right would would you Would you maybe agree with that?
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah, to an extent, yeah. yeah So it was pointless. nothing Nothing happened. The war in Afghanistan also completely pointless. In fact, so pointless that we left it and the Taliban took it over again. All those people died for kind of no reason. Like what what a waste, what an absolute waste, right? So there's one war we put over on this side. Now here's another war, World War II.
00:14:41
Speaker
And World War II, terrible, awful, so many people died. But if we hadn't fought that war, what i mean what could have happened with with Hitler and the Nazis? yeah you you know And I think about that often because it's like those are the two poles of of like thinking about it. it's like It can be It can be something that we it can be something terrible and awful that we have to do in order to stop like I mean let's face it like pure evil like Hitler and the Nazis absolute pure bigotry and evil that we had to stop them and then on the other side you have this like wag the dog war that's not even real like it was it was for for nothing and And then and it's useless. So it's like, how do you balance these two things out? You know, right's it's insane. It really is. Well, I just want to I just want to leave you with like one quote about kind of conscription and about the draft from Daniel Webster, who stated a free government with an uncontrolled power of military conscription is the most ridiculous and abominable contradiction and nonsense that has ever entered the heads of men. Wow.
00:15:49
Speaker
The devil and Daniel Webster, baby. I hear that. I know. Listen, I get it, dude.
LGBT Experiences in the Military
00:15:53
Speaker
um Andrew, thank you for that. um I have a story that I thought would be good to read on our gay horror podcast. Of course. This is this is an editorial that was written by Neko Fanning, or it might it might be pronounced Neko Fanning, but it's spelled ah well differently. Anyways, it's from 2019, and the the title of this editorial is called, I thought I could serve as an openly gay man in the army. Then came the death threats.
00:16:20
Speaker
So that tells you all you need to know right from the beginning, but I read it today and I thought, you know what? I could talk about a lot of things. Let's talk about this, right? So I'm just going to go ahead and read it to you. So here it goes. And you can read this on, of course, NewYorkTimes.com.
00:16:36
Speaker
The sergeant and I stared at each other for a moment as the office door shut. I'm certain the expression on my face mirrored the pale, shaken one I saw on his. Only seconds earlier, we both stood silent, hands clasped behind our backs respectfully as a non-commissioned officer stood inches from my face and threatened to end my career.
00:16:57
Speaker
As we left the office, the sergeant searched for something consolatory to say. His words, and any comfort I might have taken from them, fell flat. I sat, staring at my computer screen, trying to recall what I had been working on. A few hours later, Lieutenant Megan Calavales would stop by and explain.
00:17:17
Speaker
The non-commissioned officer was the head of the unit's sexual harassment, assault, response, and prevention program. The evening before, there had been a report of a male-on-male sexual assault in our unit. In response, and apparently to demonstrate his competency in his assigned position, the non-commissioned officer had taken it upon himself to approach the person he considered inclined toward committing a similar offense in the future. Me.
00:17:44
Speaker
the only openly gay soldier in my unit. I was fortunate that ah ah kaiaas that's how you pronounce it pardon me i was fortunate at the kaliiaas the officer in charge of the intelligence department where I worked was a woman with no tolerance for prejudice. Together we approached our unit's leadership where she insisted that the comments had stemmed from the representative's own homophobic feelings and recommended that he be reprimanded and removed from his position as the unit sexual harassment watchdog. We never learned whether any action was ever taken against him.
00:18:18
Speaker
This wasn't my first time at the 2nd Battalion, 87th Infantry, that I was targeted because of my sexuality. And a part of me marveled that it could still make my hands shake and my stomach clench. I told myself that I should have built a thicker skin at this point.
00:18:35
Speaker
that in comparison to the life-or-death hardships of military life, these moments meant nothing. But by then, it was hard to ignore the anxiety I felt during required social activities, mandatory fun, as it's called in the military, or the tension from my fellow soldiers.
00:18:52
Speaker
The moment I decided to become a soldier and the moment I chose to live openly as a gay man occurred so closely in time that it's hard to remember which came first. In early 2011, I was 19 and visiting my uncle, Senior Chief Petty Officer Brandon Perry and his family on a naval base in Naples, Italy.
00:19:11
Speaker
It was with his guidance that i that I enlisted as an intelligence analyst in the U.S. Army and with his encouragement that I came out, first to him and then to the rest of my family and friends. Before the end of May 2011, just before I left for basic combat training, my uncle sent me to Chicago to meet his two best friends and fellow sailors, Mike Landry and Abraham Elizondo.
00:19:34
Speaker
It was still four months before the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, a double-edged policy prohibiting and ah prohibiting asking any service member about his or her sexuality while enforcing the ban on openly gay service members. Mike and Abe but were to mentor me on how to survive as a gay serviceman.
00:19:54
Speaker
Their lessons advocated a combination of caution and performance. They lived together, along with Mike's partner, Larry Hall, in a condominium just off the Wilson stop on the Red Line, right where I used to live. Each had something to say about my upcoming service, each offering a different pot of paint to camouflage me into the background of my fellow soldiers. Abe, who had been a senior paralegal during his 20-year service, approached everything with a simple philosophy, prove it.
00:20:23
Speaker
As long as gay soldiers kept their mouths shut, the burden of proof fell on those making the accusations. Mike, a former chief warrant officer turned military housing director, alternated between agreeing with Abe and interjecting stories about his own experiences. He said, yep, and he only called me a faggot once.
00:20:43
Speaker
one time and I gave that little shit the boots. That's what you've got to do. You can't let anyone call you a fag because it'll just get worse." Even Larry, a skateboarding tech guru, chimed in, reminding me that the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell wasn't far off.
00:21:01
Speaker
So, for the next eight months, I all but ignored their advice. During basic training at Fort Jackson in South Carolina, I confessed to my bunkmate, Aaron Frick, a tall, white Coloradan who converted to Hinduism sometime before enlisting, that the picture of the guy in my locker wasn't of a friend. Frick wasn't terribly surprised by this news. He would go on to be my roommate and best friend during our next stage of training.
00:21:25
Speaker
On September 20, 2011, Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed, and I immediately stopped concealing my sexuality. I openly used the word boyfriend when describing my partner, never worrying that any of my superiors orla or classmates cared. I was surrounded by driven women and men focused on their careers and on forging close relationships with their peers. And I wondered at how things could have could have changed so drastically from the time that Mike and Abe had served.
00:21:54
Speaker
The second week after our I arrived at Fort Drum, New York, my first and only duty station with the Army, I found death threats slipped under the door of my barracks room. I noticed the colors first, pink, blue, and yellow, strangely happy colors at odds with the words written on them.
00:22:13
Speaker
Some were simple. Slurs and epithets written in thick black sharpie pressed so hard into the paper that it bled through. Faggot and queer fag, the notes read. A couple were more elaborate, detailed descriptions of what might happen to me if I was caught alone, and proclamations about the wrongness of gays in the military.
00:22:35
Speaker
I read the most detailed descriptions over again, trying to explain them away as something other than what they were. Maybe they were a joke or meant for someone else. I reached for my phone and then stopped. If I reported these and they were only a joke, then I would become that guy. Taking ridicule, smiling at the most vile and offensive slights with the understanding that they were nothing more than jokes is the most important social capital in the military.
00:23:01
Speaker
Was i willing to risk losing that capital before i even had the chance to earn it i tore the bright sticky notes in the confetti and toss them in the trash. The military is built on a foundation of earning trust improving yourself to your peers and superiors as capable.
00:23:17
Speaker
Being new to a unit isn't unlike being a new employee at any other job. People are cautious, even wary, until you've shown you can handle the work. Perhaps it didn't help that I was an intelligence analyst in an infantry men's world, a support soldier in a combat soldier's unit, but none of that had been mentioned in the notes.
00:23:35
Speaker
My capability wasn't in question, nor was my duty position. It wasn't my effectiveness or value to the unit that elicited these noxious notes, but something far removed from my control. Something that after September 2011 was supposed to be meaningless.
00:23:51
Speaker
And after a few months at Fort Drum, I discovered a group that convened for secret support meetings. No two people were similar, a woman who had been in the service nearly as long as I had been alive, a married father, an infantry soldier a rank below me. Each person identified as something other than heterosexual, but only privately.
00:24:10
Speaker
In their everyday lives, they pretended to be straight. We met in different places, in barracks rooms, in offices after hours, but always in secret. And sometimes it was to console or commiserate. Other times, I think it was to simply know that we weren't alone.
00:24:25
Speaker
During these meetings, I always talked about my anxiety over not knowing who had written those sticky notes and if they were standing next to me in formation or would be the person I sat beside alone on my next 24 hour shift. The others revealed truths I considered much darker than my own. The woman spoke about the sexual assault she never reported during the time of Don't Ask, Don't Tell for fear that an investigation would unveil that she was a lesbian.
00:24:51
Speaker
The husband spoke about feeling trapped, but fearing that revealing himself would cost him everything. And the infantryman confessed that he drank himself to sleep because he could never claim what he was allowed. at like At least I hadn't had to endure any of their horrors, I would think, remembering this was sometimes helpful, as if I was seeing things with greater perspective, finding the silver lining.
00:25:16
Speaker
Other times it made me nearly sick with shame to compare my fears with theirs, but I never stopped going. I left the army in December 2014, but I still feel as if I am coming to terms with my identity. There are moments when it feels wrong to claim my status as a veteran, as if being gay made me less of a soldier and somehow invalidated my service.
00:25:37
Speaker
These moments of vulnerability bring me back to when one of my superiors told me not to bring a date to the military ball, to when I found fag spelled out in the snow on my windshield with a urine, to all the times I avoided those who showed me compassion, for fear that it was a trick and that they had been the one to slip the notes beneath my door. Every memory evokes an emotion, rage that I had to serve with a constant sense of fear of my fellow soldiers,
00:26:03
Speaker
paralyzing sadness for those who endured abuses worse than I can know, and the worst, guilt over the service members, gay or straight or transgender, who died while serving in the military while my body is still whole. I don't know if these feelings will ever go away, but it is when but it it is when the guilt is most crippling that I remember my support group.
00:26:26
Speaker
that that chance to share an unseen pain and know there were others like me struggling each day still helps me wake up each morning, pull on my boots, and go about my day.
00:26:38
Speaker
So look, thanks for listening to that. um But I thought it was an important perspective to bring um because look, that's it's 2019. It's only five years ago. It's not that long. I guarantee you there are gay and transgender and lesbian and bisexual soldiers now to this day who are experiencing the exact kind of things that are still going on, even though they shouldn't. And it's a good reminder that Don't Ask, Don't Tell It only ended in 2011. We almost think that like that happened in the 90s. No, it was in 2011 that that got finally repealed. so you know like Look, there there's a lot of different aspects of the military that can be, yeah I think we talked about this, that can be good, plenty that can be bad, and plenty that can be downright confusing.
00:27:24
Speaker
And I really, I really hand it to this guy for writing this because I think it was an important perspective to share and the honesty and the vulnerability there, especially for somebody who clearly is a soldier. You know what I mean? Like he's not an actor. You know what I mean? right That's a lot for him to do. So I really applaud that editorial. Yeah, it's really good. And it's really, it's really good to like hear I don't know. like you don't We've gotten to a point in 2024 where we you know ah actively have like pride and like we we have a lot of celebration around our community and everything, and it's it's really important to remember. like
00:28:06
Speaker
this is not that far away like like like remember remember remember like it's not that like and honestly it's not that far away from being taken away so just so well and remember that people fought for it like pray like You know what you may be a person that never wants to go in the military that maybe but like people do and like you kinda have to get over that right and so for the people that do and some of them are lgbt people. They deserve to have that chance if they want it because it's there right as a citizen.
00:28:40
Speaker
and And that's just the thing. is like people i mean he says say He says it so well. There were there were people ah from the beginning of of of ah of America's history that were LGBT, that fought in ah in different wars, that were part of the military, that died in their service, and they never got the chance to be full citizens. that just It haunts me.
00:29:03
Speaker
And i've I've thought about that a lot, like, man, ah you know, before before we had the right to marry and and and and a number of other things, I always thought, like, God, if I were to die tomorrow, I would die never being a full citizen of this country. Isn't that just sad and terrible? yeah and there's There's just something about the bravery of the people who in such a very closed system and a very different type of of of I don't know, of like non-secular life that that they, or or secular life, I should say, that they found the courage to stand up for themselves and make it happen. It's just, it's really incredible stuff. It is. Yeah.
Self-Military Groups and Radicalization
00:29:40
Speaker
Well, I want to take a slight left from where we just were and talk a little bit about self-military. Oh, Jesus Christ, these people.
00:29:52
Speaker
um because there is still a lot of sects within even the United States that feel that they need to self militarize. I want to talk especially about the Michigan militia. The worst the worst of the worst, quite frankly. um So I, as most listeners know, grew up in Michigan and I grew up in a rural part of Michigan.
00:30:18
Speaker
ah And I knew of the Michigan militia. However, I didn't know how deep it went. ah Interestingly enough, um you know Michigan actually has a deep history of of of militia ah stemming from like before it was a state. There was the Toledo, I forget like exactly what the the war was called, but there was like the Toledo Strait like where they were trying to defend between Ohio and Michigan. There was the Mackinac Island ah standoff. like There's been a lot of like weird Michigan lore, ah lot of it but a lot of it before Michigan was even a state.
00:30:56
Speaker
um But this this new idea of like modern militia really didn't happen until about 1994. Now what happened right before 1994 to make this a thing?
00:31:12
Speaker
while we had the standoff at Ruby Ridge right yeah and we had the Waco siege. So if you don't know much about those, I'm not going to go into them because I'm more focused on the Michigan militia. You can look it up on your own. But essentially what happened is these were radical groups that the government basically went in and said, Hey, now you're being a little crazy. We need to stop this. Yeah, right, right, right.
00:31:33
Speaker
And so like there was a group of people, I'm not going to say it, but I will say it. Mostly men who established a group that they held the belief that they needed to maintain individual freedoms and overthrow the government if needed.
00:31:50
Speaker
This is where the Michigan militia comes from. At its peak in the mid-1990s, the Michigan militia corps claimed to have over 10,000 members. Although its membership was estimated to be several hundred by 2010, at its core, the militia's main areas of focus were paramilitary training and emergency response. They were also involved in search and rescue, community preparedness, and to stat disaster relief. In some brigades, participating in para paramilitary training was not a requirement of membership.
00:32:19
Speaker
However, this got a little crazy in the mid 90s because, you know, it just sounds like, you know, I don't know, neighborhood watch like sounds nice. Like, oh, that's nice that people are trained to like go look for people or like fucking solve unsolved mysteries. God damn it.
00:32:35
Speaker
but right um But the early meetings of the Michigan militia, um guess who was in attendance? addie Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. There you go. Two two real winners, the Unabomber and the Oklahoma City Bomber. um Amazing. yeah who carried Like you said, who carried out the Oklahoma City Bombing in April 19th of 1995?
00:32:58
Speaker
So this kind of like split up the Michigan militia because there was so much attention on them. And so it kind of divided people like it divided people into sex of like kind of that um what I was talking about kind of like the community preparedness and disaster relief people to this other sect.
00:33:20
Speaker
And this other sect was just basically like conspiracy theory crazy people. And listen, do we all love to indulge in a conspiracy theory now and then? Sure. Sure. It's kind of fun. But these people took it to a whole nother level.
00:33:43
Speaker
One such faction was actually arrested in 2020 as they were set to abduct Governor Whitmer and flee to Wisconsin where they would try her for treason in the wake of the coronavirus shutdowns in Michigan.
00:33:58
Speaker
that's i don't the the The way that people in these groups, and this listen, this is not just military, this is this is church, this is a lot of places where people can be radicalized. Sure.
00:34:17
Speaker
it is insane that people would get to this level that they would just abduct a person to go basically and and this goes back to like the witch hunts you know what i mean like it's i mean it's ah what i think it shouldn't be for anybody is is surprising anymore. yeah And and i I think that that's that's maybe, i think I think more people need to wake up to the fact that like these groups do exist and they and they are probably in your community in one way or another, and you have to look out for it. And like you have to be careful. you know we've We've talked before on the show about you know how easy it is to be radicalized, especially if you're a young person. All you have to do is go to youtube dot.com, man, and let that algorithm do its work.
00:35:01
Speaker
And you know and give it give it a couple of days on a young impressionable mind, especially if that young and impressionable mind you know comes from a lower socioeconomic state you know a a family or community where where they don't have access to a lot of you know great education or you know where maybe their families don't value education very highly and reading and you know critical thinking.
00:35:24
Speaker
It ain't hard to so radicalize somebody. it's just It's not, and that's what's so scary about it, is that it can happen so easily. I told you, like I don't know if I mentioned it on the show, I think I did, but um that my YouTube algorithm got like messed up oh yeah on my, like on just like so specifically on shorts. Oh my God.
00:35:46
Speaker
And all of a sudden, I was getting served all these Charlie Kirk, all this... like Oh, my God. Awful. Awful. And I just was like, what is happening? like What is happening? But that's my like almost 40-year-old brain. like I can't even like understand like what that would do to someone that was 18 or 17 or like whatever. like it's it's It's insane. and like and I'm going to dovetail this like into what's going on currently in America just for a second because I i feel like I have to and then we can move on. But like this is like where I really do feel like where Trump politics stems from. and like
00:36:31
Speaker
i mean Fast forward 30 seconds if you don't want to hear this, but like I really do feel like if we just can get through this election without electing Donald Trump, we will get through a lot of this crazy rhetoric about hate speech, about radicalizing, and about just talking crazy to people.
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah, talking crazy about people just to talk crazy about people and actually get back to policy and actually get back to what's really going on in America, not your self ego. And that's all I have to say about it. So so I got to tell you, I disagree with you. and and and and And this is what I really mean when I say I disagree. That is always going to be in America.
00:37:15
Speaker
It always would be. And I don't think that Trump politics is is the cause of it. I think Trump politics just exploits it because they know that they can.
Societal Issues and Political Views
00:37:24
Speaker
Sure. And so like that and that it's it's always going to be there because i we always have to remember that America, for all the good that it can do, um continues to never deal with its original sin of like how this country was actually formed. And because the because reconstruction never really occurred and because reparations were never fully dealt, so
00:37:53
Speaker
And because the that the country allowed racism to fester and and allowed it to enter into policy and it still continues to this very day, it will never be right. It just will never be right. And it's a shame, but that that racism, that bigotry and that fear and paranoia, it's always going to be there.
00:38:12
Speaker
I think, and I say that with actually, believe it or not, a bit of a hopeful mind, because I agree with you. I agree with you on this. If we can get through this and break the Trump fever, if we can bring Trump fever, then I do think we can maybe, as you said, kind of like get back to business at hand. We stand a chance. How can we make this, how can we make this country better? And how can we make, how can we make by extension the world better? How can we be a better country in the world? How can I as an American who lives abroad, how can I be a better representative of our country to help the world in one way or another? Like these are things that like, you know, we should think about. And if we can get away from Trump, if we can deflate him this time,
00:38:54
Speaker
Maybe we do have that chance to do that. it's it's it's It's possible. But Jesus Christ, people go out and fucking vote. like i don't If you don't, i i have I don't know what to fucking tell you. i
00:39:07
Speaker
I'll bite my tongue a little bit, but if if if you're not gonna vote, I don't really care what you have to say. it's if if if you're If you're not gonna vote, you should stop listening to this podcast because we don't really want you to listen. up I'll be completely honest with you. like yeah There's no reason not to vote and like and I'll be real. like Look, there's a lot of shit going on in the world right now, but like I'm sorry, you can swallow it and fucking vote for Kamala Harris. I don't know what to fucking tell you. like if that That's just it. Sorry, man. That's it.
00:39:35
Speaker
Whoop, done. with yeah syria no But it all but it really does all like dovetail back down to the military because like, yeah, that's what that's what is going to be at stake when it comes to what's happening next. Who do you who do you want making decisions about sending your sons and daughters into war? Do you want Gary Harris or do you want Donald Trump? Do you want Donald Trump who couldn't give a flying fuck less about people in the military? Not his own children for God's sake. yes who call Who calls them losers? Who called John McCain, a military hero in America, called him a loser? That's the person that you want fucking running your military. And that's the cognitive dissonance of these people that that that are that are the the MAGA folks.
00:40:17
Speaker
This man, it completely like literally this past weekend, desecrated Arlington National Cemetery by doing a campaign event there. Desecrated the most sacred cemetery for the American military. Desecrated it. And he also consistently calls people in the military losers and whatever the fuck else he calls them.
00:40:38
Speaker
That's the person that you fucking support. Man, you can suck my gay fucking dick, because I'll tell you what, that motherfucker is a piece of garbage. He's garbage. You hear me? Garbage! and What do we do with garbage, Andrew? We throw it out. That's what we do. Sometimes we burn it, but I'm not, I'm not going to mention that here. I'm just going to say we throw out the trash, right? We throw out the trash. Sometimes times an incinerator is necessary, but this is a horror podcast. You know what I mean? Andrew, look, we could talk about the military all goddamn day, especially, you know what? I will say this though. There are some cute people in the military. Like I'm not like fully into like that kind of porn. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not really into that. I'm not into dominance porn, so it's not really. You're not a like kind of am actually. But no, is is that really surprise you? um Remember, there but there was I'm sure you've come across this before. I'm sure you've come across this before. There was that there was that one like military porn site called Active Duty. Oh, yeah. Yeah. that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. I'll tell you what. There were definitely some on there that I used to watch over and over again. I did. That's totally like zero opposite of my like But like, I mean, but I'm not even like, you know, what kind of guys I'm into. I'm not even really into that. Just there was something about every now and then I was like, this is kind of like scandalous, isn't it? You know what I mean? Like just stupid shit. My my it is so weird. And like, listen, I'm not going to get too far into this, but like my porn algorithm is so fucked up that like I'm it basically says I'm into. Hey, dude, I'm I need I need help with this, like in my ah college dorm like that. Like that's like like that's like where yeah I mean, yeah, look, I get it, man. I i get it. some look Sometimes beggars can't be choosers when it comes to just, you know, getting that job done. Anyways, Andrew, that does it for our horror in real life segment. Why don't we end it here? Yeah. And we'll move on to our beloved segment, which is called what you've been watching. Bitch.
00:42:51
Speaker
It's time for what you've been watching, bitch.
What You've Been Watching Segment
00:42:55
Speaker
What you've been watching, you drill sergeant bitch. That was, that was, are they like weirdly like sexy? I don't know. I know. Well, cause I was actually thinking about like how you drill, like drilling, you know what I mean? Drill. Yeah. Anyway, this is the segment of the show where we talk about what we've been watching and we share it with just you, just this one little listener that listens to this show. Yes.
00:43:19
Speaker
Anyway, Matty, tell me what you've been watching, bitch. um I have been in my era of rewatches recently. I can't tell by this list. I'm doing another rewatch. And the rewatch that I am... I think it's because like it rewatches bring you comfort. Do you know what I mean? And like it just feels good to go back to something that you know and love, right? And so I i started doing a rewatch of the Americans, I think a couple weeks ago.
00:43:47
Speaker
And man, I gotta tell you, I love the Americans. Like what a fantastic fucking television show. It's funny. I need to finish it. You never finished it? No, I think we fell off around like season four. Don't fucking, you're, finish the fucking show. All right, we'll come beat you. Like finish the show, Andrew. It's so good. You have to see how it ends. It's wonderful. Unlike, you know, like fucking dumb shows. I gotta tell you, so if you don't know, if you do, I know.
00:44:14
Speaker
If you don't know what the Americans is, the Americans is the story of um these two, ah this mom and his dad, right? And they have a family and they live in America. They live near Washington DC. And it just so happens that these people who lead very normal lives, their travel agents, their kids go to school. They're like, you know, well to do in the community. They have a nice house. They have a good car, but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just so happens they're Russian spies and they were born in Russia.
00:44:43
Speaker
And they were implanted in America in this scheme called the illegals, basically. And this is actually a real story, too, like this stuff actually happened. There was a program very much like this. And that's what the show is based off of. And it's just a show about that. That's it. um One thing that happens very early in the first episode is they get a new neighbor. And that new neighbor just happens to be an FBI agent making their lives a little bit complicated.
00:45:13
Speaker
Um, so it's wonderful. It's a, what's her name? Carrie Russell, right? Felicity. Yeah. Carrie Russell and Matthew Reese, I believe is his name. yu reese ye yep yep And then just like a bunch of other really good actors in it. Um, and I forget what year it ended. I can't recall that.
00:45:29
Speaker
like 2014 2015 is somewhere in there somewhere in there and um I just I love it so much I think this is probably the third time that I'm going through it I'm just about through season four and it's just been another joy to watch it again it's you know especially like when you do a rewatch and you just like forget all the little things you know like you forget that thing happened or this detail or that detail and you're like oh yeah That's why it was good. Fuck. Yeah. So really good show. If you've never watched the Americans before, or if like Andrew, you've never finished it. Might I suggest put this on your list because it is well worth your time. The America. Yeah, I will. Um, I think what happened for me by the way, I think on Disney or Netflix, it's one of those. I can't remember. It's it's streaming all over the place.
00:46:15
Speaker
No, I think for me with the show is I got really frustrated by one specific character death, and I'm not going to give it away. But like really, it frustrated me so much that I stopped watching. So I think I maybe just know what you're talking about. I think I'm talking about. Yeah. and And to be fair, like that does make sense. I get it. Yeah. um All right. So my first one is called No Way Up. Have you heard about this? I have not. No.
00:46:39
Speaker
So this is a movie ah currently on AMC plus. I think that means that it's also on shutter, if I'm not mistaken. OK. But this is about a small plane of people. So think like not like a 737, but kind of like a one down from that. OK. That is on its way to Cabo from Los Angeles. And they they're the plane goes down and they they land in the ocean. OK.
00:47:06
Speaker
And they go down in the ocean. Oh, my God. Like sinks into the ocean. And what happens when you're in the ocean? Sharks. Oh, boy. This is this is shark. Yes, this is about a plane that is in the ocean with sharks. Listen, this is not a great movie, but.
00:47:27
Speaker
if you have an appreciation for shark horror like a deep blue sea like the what what did I call what below Paris wasn't that the one that I just brought up? but it yeah Yes, yes, yes. If you love this kind of shit, you're in if you like that kind of thing, you'll like this movie because it's kind of like a Poseidon adventure meets Jaws like who's going to be there at the end type of ah type of movie. So like if you if you got a Sunday afternoon where you just want to like Watch a fun, like shark movie. I'd recommend no way up. Okay, cool. Amen. Um, next one for me is an oldie, but a goldie baby. It is stand by me. Now I rewatch this because I was just looking, I was going to buy another movie on Apple. I can't remember what it was. friend of the show, Jerry O'Connell. Right. Exactly. And, um, it just so happened that stand by me was only like three 99 to buy. And I was like, Oh, buy it. Yeah. I have to buy it because i I had the DVD, but I got rid of all of those when I moved here. So, um, so I got it and I watched it again and man, what a fucking movie. What a movie. These children, cause they were children were so incredibly good.
00:48:41
Speaker
Just incredible acting. River Phoenix and what's his name? Jonathan... um I can't remember their names right now. but It's not Jonathan Brandis, no. Yeah, Jonathan Brandis. And Cory, one of the Corys, and then of course Jerry O'Connell, right? And they are all so good. And like, you know, it's just always an amazing thing. Like, you know, because kids can be cute on screen and they can be funny on screen.
00:49:10
Speaker
But like when they really act their little fucking hearts out. Oh no, it's Will Wheaton. that Will Wheaton, that's his name. But yeah but I get why it's in that universe. right um like when they When they really act their fucking hearts out and they're just fucking kids, it's just, it's incredible. And that is what happens in this movie. And that happens, you know especially from River Phoenix, Rest in Peace. God, he was just so,
00:49:34
Speaker
He was so good in that movie. just Children of God, if you don't remember ah about it. It's absolutely wonderful. um and and And all the rest were wonderful too. And of course in ah in ah a movie that was based off of ah a short story from from Stephen King. It's honestly kind of crazy that they came up with the movie they did based on that very short story because that short that story is very short. Like it's not that big of a thing. Right. right right and so you know's and And the story itself is just one that's so sweeping. you know it's about It's about so many things, but it's about just like the terror of growing up, ah but also the fear and awe of it at the same time.
00:50:14
Speaker
And and like the the precariousness of friendships, I was really just haunted by it um after watching it again. i I found myself laughing, I found myself, of course, crying. And at the end of it, I just felt like fulfilled watching the movie again. So if you've if you've never seen Stand By Me, let me tell you this, you you really do need to watch it. It's ah it's an incredible movie um and it stands a test of time and in a really big way.
00:50:40
Speaker
And if you haven't seen it in a long time, maybe it's ah maybe it's a good one to come back to. you know Stand by me. An easy one that people forget is a Stephen King adaptation. Yeah, actually it's done right. so yeah Yeah. All right, my next one is on Amazon Prime and it's called Jackpot.
00:50:57
Speaker
um This is stars Aquafina and John Cena. So ah take that for what it is. Wow. Wow. um So the premise of this movie and what drew me in is in the near future in L.A., there is a lottery. It happens once a year and one person wins like millions of dollars. okay And but the the the the trick of the movie is that person then has 24 hours to keep the money. And if you kill them, you get the money. wow So it becomes like this like social media like crazy like like you know thing like that drums up like more and more attention. And so Awkwafina, who's new to l LA, she accidentally wins the lottery. And then John Cena plays this
00:51:49
Speaker
a new kind of ah venture into capital about protecting those who win the lottery. It's like that's his job. Like that's why you hire him is to protect you, like to win the lottery. And so it's just all about her trying to survive 24 hours. Now, this is kind of like in the vein. I made Michael watch this other movie after we watched this called Killers. It was Katherine Heigl and um oh god swooby bangs guy i can't think of his name right now um but it's in the same vein of like it's a comedy but there's like horror elements to it you know what i mean sure and so like it was really fun like it's on it's it's streaming for free on amazon prime you can watch it right now and like if you like aquafina you know what kind of comedy you're gonna get like with it the like very like
00:52:39
Speaker
i'm dry, quick-witted comedy. And then if you like John Cena, you're just going to get John Cena. So like what what else do you need? I don't know. i so I would highly recommend this movie. I think it was really fun. It's a stupid fun movie. but I think I'm in my stupid fun era of just wanting to just like enjoy things. yes But this was fun. I liked it. I highly recommend Jackpot one on Amazon Prime.
00:53:04
Speaker
The next one that I watched ah is it's called Wham. It's the Wham documentary. ah Yeah, I watched this a while back. Yeah, I think it's been out for a year now. um But I finally got around to watching it and boy, is it good. um Another one that once again, if you haven't seen it, you should watch it.
00:53:21
Speaker
um Wham is the story of George Michael and Andrew Ridgley as they created Wham and just like i like truly a magical creation of ah of a band that just took off from literally fucking nothing. Like these working class kids in England that just liked music and like put it together and figured it the fuck out and created something that was Huge, that was huge. And it only took them four years to do it. but Which is just insane to think about. like They started it in 1982 and by 1980, I'm looking at the little blurb right now, by 1986 in June, they played their last gig and at Wembley. that crazy like Think about that. They went from fucking nothing, like I said, to working class kids that just were ah also insanely handsome, we might add, and very, very talented.
00:54:16
Speaker
And in four years, they took the world by storm. by storm And so like you know this is a great documentary that just like it just dives into that that era. it It really takes you back to the 80s, puts you in sort of that innocence that was there, talks a lot about you know the hardships that George Michael had to endure as a closeted person.
00:54:37
Speaker
And like really also, like I just, I had, I love George Michael so much. He was just such a a wonderful, I'm going to start crying, such a, such a wonderful person. And like the fact that he had to go through all those stupid things, like when the police caught him just fucking, you know, doing what gay men do, which is have sex. We have sex with people. That's what we fucking do. And like embarrassed him and and completely just like rocked his life. Do you know what I mean? It's just it's still it still actually makes me this really angry that he had to go through that. You know what I mean? I literally am right there with you. The way that the way that we treated George Michael is a capital offense. Like it is
00:55:19
Speaker
awful and everyone should be embarrassed. Truly. And like this man, all he wanted to do was create music and have sex like like literally like that's all he wanted to do. And you couldn't even accept that. Fuck you. Sorry. and I mean, and like, look, and he was just he was an amazing, very caring, very wonderful, very beautiful person um and and and obviously extremely talented. And so blah, blah, blah, blah. I could go on forever about that. the The point is this is a wonderful documentary. You're looking at his very young years.
00:55:48
Speaker
and it's lovely. if you If you haven't watched it and if you're into George Michael, in the very least, I highly suggest watching this. It was it it was really heartwarming, to be honest. And Club Tropicana is an underrated song.
00:56:03
Speaker
All right, my next one is currently streaming on Hulu. This was a blind watch for me. It was kind of like um in my, you know, like when you're in like the app and it says like recommended for you type of thing. i do So this was in there. It was called Night Shift. And so I watched it.
00:56:20
Speaker
It's actually a really well filmed movie. um So the premise of the movie is that a woman who is kind of like on a road trip, you you seem to think like she's kind of like in the desert, like kind of think like joy ride vibes like that kind of desert. And she's hired ah for one night to fill in at a ah hotel motel type of thing like, ah you know, maybe hourly place type of thing.
00:56:46
Speaker
um This place is completely run down, it's it's but she's hired to do like just the night shift at that place. and Then things start to happen. like Is this place haunted? is this like Does she have like a mysterious past that we don't know about? like I'm not going to give anything away, but like that's kind of like the vibe of the movie. and You kind of just got to let it play out like from there.
00:57:12
Speaker
But overall, like at the end of the as like that the quote-unquote twist was happening, I was like, oh, we're in this kind of movie. And so like I did like it, like but I don't know anyone that's talking about this movie, and it does have some like decent cast in it.
00:57:31
Speaker
But I don't know, maybe this is just like one of those weird Hulu movies that kind of slips by the radar, but I liked it quite a bit. So like if you're looking for something a little spooky, it's got some ghosty elements. It's got some thriller elements and it's got a decent enough twist. So like go watch Night Shift. It's on Hulu. It's for free, all.
00:57:51
Speaker
Hell yeah, nice. And my last one is one that I have watched maybe a thousand times by now. And we've covered on the show. We have. Yeah, it is Gosford Park. Gosford Park is one of my absolute favorite movies of all time. I love it. And I i just I'm I'm obsessed with it. It's one of my comfort movies that I can just like put on what I'm doing anything. um And I adore it.
00:58:15
Speaker
I'm at the heart of it this is an upstairs downstairs sort of show i'm not show sort of sort of film um and it's really really well done and it's it's particularly well it has the ability to be well done for a number of reasons number one.
00:58:31
Speaker
Robert fucking Altman directed it. Julian Fellows wrote it. um And it was produced by Bob Balaban, Robert Altman, and David Levy. So just incredible. But then you go into the fucking cast. The cast is incredible. Eileen Atkins, Alan Bates, Stephen Fry, Michael Gambon, Richard Grant, Derek Jacobi.
00:58:54
Speaker
Helen Mirren, Jeremy Northam, Clive Owen, even fucking Ryan Phillippe is in this movie for God's sake. Maggie Smith, Kristen Scott, Scott Thomas, Emily Watson. I mean, it just kind of goes on and on and on. um So what I'm saying there is you just happen to have an incredible wealth of talent in this film that just makes it sore and it's a pretty simple who done it movie in the end it's a murder mystery but it's one that is just so fun to watch because it's so subtle and it's so biting all the time and i just think people do a wonderful job in it.
00:59:30
Speaker
So if you've never seen Gosford Park and you like a little mystery, a little murder mystery thing. It's very um Agatha Christie. Yeah, very Agatha Christie. If you're into that kind of thing, this is a good one for you to watch. um It's lovely and and absolutely one of my favorites of all time. So now I give it to you, Gosford Park.
00:59:49
Speaker
Cool. Well, my last one is couldn't be further from that. ah um This is Pop Star Academy. Oh, well, in Cat's Eye. um Do you know anything about this? I know nothing about this at all. So this is on Netflix. And essentially what they are doing is they are pulling together one. It's like it's like kind of like a like a home run type thing. There's a label that is like, they're struggling and so they're putting all their money into one last ditch effort to save the label. And this is a reality show, I should say. And they pull together these 20 women, I guess I should say girls, because none of them are over 21, I will say that. They range from 16 to 21.
01:00:44
Speaker
and they pull them in from all parts of the of the world and they're trying to pull together the next international girl group. But what they are doing is they are applying K-pop rules to this group. So they're training them like a K-pop group.
01:01:01
Speaker
And what you learn throughout the ah throughout the show, and it's it this is not a giveaway because it's ah it's mentioned in the preview. But like what the girls don't know is that they're going to be put into, quote unquote, an elimination show okay where the population votes on them to stay in the group.
01:01:19
Speaker
And so it's like this, this, it's this push and pull of like talented young women coming in to try out for this group, giving everything they have. And then this like pull of like the studio being like pulling the rug out from under them. And it's, it's like, honestly, like I can't even tell you I watched this in two days because I was enamored by this because the amount of work that they put into this, these like I can't even imagine being 16, 17, or 18 and putting in this much work to be a quote unquote possible group because what they don't tell you is that they start with 20, they end with 30. Oh, wow. And so by the end, you can only have six. So there's a lot like, I know a lot of people were enamored by like kind of the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders show, which I watched that I kind of didn't really get why people are so enamored with it. Sure. Because it was kind of just
01:02:18
Speaker
dumb if I'm being honest, but um, this was like, I don't know. This was fucking talent on 10 and like drama and drama on 10 because the amount of work that these girls do, and there is one girl not giving this away. There was one girl that I fell in love with and guess what she did? She just said, this is dumb. I don't like the way you're treating me and walked away. Like, and I was like, Oh my God. Queen.
01:02:44
Speaker
So um I really enjoyed the show. I thought it was just like, this is what reality TV needs to be. It needs to have a talent and it needs to like show off some sort of part of life that we don't know about.
01:03:00
Speaker
And I just thought that this did a great job. So if you're looking for your next reality TV binge, I would highly recommend Popstar Academy Cat's Eye. Nice. Well, folks, another edition of What You've Been Watching, Mitch. Andrew brought us No Way Up on AMC Plus, Jackpot on Amazon Prime, Night Shift on Hulu, and Popstar Academy Cat's Eye on Netflix.
01:03:24
Speaker
And Maddie brought us the Americans, which I believe you can stream on Netflix. Stand by me, which just look it up. Jesus Christ, stand by me. ah Wham, which is on Netflix and Gosford Park, which I'm sure you can also stream currently. Cool. Well, that does it for this segment. We'll come right back with our first film of the episode, Predator.
01:03:49
Speaker
We are a rescue team. Not assassins. Now, what are we gonna do? In a part of the world where there are no rules. We pick up their trailer, chop or run them down, grab those hostages before anybody knows we were there. What do you mean, we? Deep in the jungle, where nothing that lives is safe. You lose it here. You're in a world of hurt. Show time.
01:04:22
Speaker
you're bleing in I ain't got time to believe. Is being led by the ultimate warrior. We need the best. That's why you're here. But now... What's got Billy so spooked? There's something out there waiting for us. And it ain't no man. They're up against the ultimate enemy. Holy mother god. Nothing like it has ever been on earth before. She says the jungle just came alive and took him. We cannot see it. um
01:04:53
Speaker
No blood, no bodies. We have nothing. But it sees the heat of our bodies and the heat of our fear. Whatever it is out there, killed Hapa. And now it wants us. It kills for pleasure. He will spend a life. It hunts for sport. He's killing us one at a time.
01:05:15
Speaker
We're all gonna die. But this time, it's picked the wrong man to hunt. If it bleeds, we can kill it.
01:05:37
Speaker
20th Century Fox presents Arnold Schwarzenegger.
01:05:43
Speaker
Predator. The hunt begins Friday, June 12th at theaters everywhere.
01:05:50
Speaker
Are you prey or are you predator? Maddie, tell us about Predator. Soon the hunt will begin. A team of elite commandos on a secret mission in a Central American jungle come to find themselves hunted by an Extraterrestrial Warrior. Predator is directed by John McTiernan, written by Jim Thomas and John Thomas. They both are Thomas's, ah produced by Davis Entertainment, distributed by 20th Century Fox. Dutch was played by Arnold Schwarzenegger. Dylan played by Carl Weathers. God love him.
01:06:27
Speaker
Anna played by Alpedia Carrillo, Mac played by Bill Duke, Pancho played by Richard Chavez, Soul played by Sonny Landom, Hawkins played by Shane Black, Blaine paid played by the former governor himself, Jesse Ventura,
01:06:42
Speaker
The Predator was played by Kevin Peter Hall, and The Predator's voice was voiced by Peter Cullen. It is rated R. It's 107 minutes long, made in the USA, but filmed in Mesmeloya, Mexico, ah filmed out not filmed released on June 12, 1987, and the budget for this movie was ah surprisingly only $18 million, which i was I was kind of surprised at that.
01:07:06
Speaker
And ah it brought in 98 million. So good for you on that. So that is Predator, Andrew. I know it's not a first time watch for either of us, but tell me how it went for you on this one. Yeah. So um this was definitely one of those movies that I watched like oddly at a very young age. Like I think I think that like in 80s households, like if Arnold Schwarzenegger was in it, we were allowed to watch it. I don't know what that was, but you're one ugly motherfucker. Yeah. like it was so surprising to me because i I maybe haven't okay so I can exactly tell you the last time I watched this movie so we went to I don't were you with us when we went to this we went to a play I put that in quotes called predator the musical 2.0 I remember going to see killer Queen I don't think I saw the predator musical though
01:07:59
Speaker
um This was pretty bad. Not done not surprising. and um Then when we went home that night, we watched Predator because we're like, did we miss something? like in it and so That was the last time. so That was probably 2013, 2012. I haven't seen this in like a good decade. but um What I will say about this watch is like I'm pretty like, OK, not watching like the first 30 minutes of this movie. I'm being honest. Yeah, there's like a there's like like a 30 minute span where it's just about them like going to the jungle and then blowing up like a village of of of Central American terrorists. Who knows?
01:08:41
Speaker
like they don't really say like what really is going on white basically or like American like or like African American like that's that's who they they don't but they don't really like give them they don't really give details on why they're doing this it's like it's very weird there's like a whole like turn where Carl Weathers is basically like I got the information I needed and then Arnold Schwarzenegger is like you let us to Dirmed like.
01:09:08
Speaker
And so like i I listen, I think the plot on this is pretty thin. But what I do like is I do like the last like about like our so where we're concentrated on like trying to figure out what the predator is, like what it's like, what it's a fascination with ah hunting is and like and what it's what its weaknesses are. Yeah, like I like that part. But like, is this movie probably 30 minutes too long?
01:09:33
Speaker
yeah I think so. I'm sorry. I'm glad you brought that up. not Not to interject on your take here, but that that's what I took away from this from this watch more than anything, to be honest with you. I haven't watched this in a long time, but i I've definitely watched it at least four or five times as a kid and early adulthood, probably. um It's just a long movie, man. like I will reason though like in in my head. I remember I remember being pretty quick, pretty short, but this is definitely. Yeah. Like like you said, 20, 25 minutes too long for sure. Yeah. And what I will say is I i forget. OK, so that's my initial take. How about you go? And then we can go into details. yeah sure i I think that it's I think it it's like it's a fine movie. I think the special effects are actually really good. I'm being honest, especially for team fucking million like, i come on.
01:10:20
Speaker
Yeah. And so like I do enjoy the movie. I just think it's a little bit too um conflated, if that's it. I think it makes perfect sense. I think um i think Predator is a, it like like you just said, it's a fun movie and it and like it just fits it It fits all of those eighties sort of like action movie like boxes or not not fits it ticks them all right and so you've got you know you have like your big time stars like Carl Weathers and Arnold Schwarzenegger but also like Jesse fucking Ventura who would have been huge in wrestling then and can we just talk for a minute about Jesse Ventura's lines in this movie at played
01:10:59
Speaker
Um, cause he has, oh you mean when he called everyone slack jawed faggots. Oh my God. So here, here's one poncho says you're hit, you're bleeding man. And he just says, I ain't got time to bleed. Or, uh, the part where he walks into the room and he just sees them all and he goes, bunch of slack jawed faggots around here. This stuff will make you a goddamn sexual Tyrannosaurus, just like me." um What else does he say? um He says, buddy, buddy, buddy, I've seen some badass bush before, man, but nothing like this. Or this one. Come on in, you fuckers. Come on in. Old Painless is waiting. Or here's another one. You lose it here, you're in a world of hurt.
01:11:39
Speaker
just What did he say? Son of a bitch is dug in like an Alabama tick. Just hilarious lines come out of his mouth. Well, I will say back then he was just the body venture. Now he's Jesse, the mind and body venture.
01:12:00
Speaker
um But i mean look you know i mean look it's it it is a movie that is not meant of course to be a deep dive into ah you know like thought about aliens and violence and and war it's it's. like kind of is um But well what what is interesting though is what it spawned. right i mean like you know If we think about you know one of the things that came out last year, the year before, Prey. Yeah, loved it. and You and I both absolutely adored it. like i mean the only The only criticism that you and I had for Prey was that it was too short, which we never say. you know and i so like I think that this the initial entry in the in the Predator franchise,
01:12:42
Speaker
is one that is you know maybe, ah it's we we both agree it's a little bit too long, but it it does kick off um sort of a whole new a whole new just way of thinking about this kind of thing. And like how amazing is it that Stan Winston created you know the actual creature itself? That's that's incredible. And like we have these really funny lines throughout it, and not just from Jesse Ventura, but also from Carl Weathers, also from Arnold Schwarzenegger, of course.
01:13:10
Speaker
Stick around. I know, right? um or Or the one that I said earlier, it was just a classic, you're an ugly motherfucker. like that is That's just hilarious, come on. Knock, knock. and Yeah, right. And like to be fair, like when when the predator finally does take off its mask to fight Arnold, sort of like, you know, hand, hand, at the hand, mano, e mano, e mano. Like, damn, the predator is ugly as fuck, dude.
01:13:35
Speaker
i'm like like yes like sometimes i think like do the predators love each other you know what i mean like how do they love each other like oh my god but then i think they probably think that we're ugly you know what i mean like it's it's insane i can tell you who loves each other is jesse ventura and that other but guy who mourns his death for literally 12 hours. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Listen, there was something going on there. There was some gay shit happening. or she Like in both these movies, I'm constantly reminded that when straight men are alone together, they're a little gay for sure. Like it's, I mean, that, that is like the basis of a lot of our porns too. So like, I mean, we have to, we have to believe this, right?
01:14:15
Speaker
Um, but I mean, look, I had fun watching it again. I did. It's just, um, you know, I think Predator is one of those films where you don't have to pay too much attention. If I'm being honest, like, you know, you can let it roll and you don't have to, you can just kind of sit there a little bit brainless and it's just fun to watch. And at the same time, um, I do think it's just too long and, and I i don't know why it didn't feel that way before. Cause I don't think it ever did.
01:14:38
Speaker
But maybe just because I'm old now and like, I don't know, time is moving faster. That's why I think I don't know. It's crazy. But definitely this one could have easily been 25 minutes shorter and we would have been happier for it.
01:14:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think like I think that there's too much plot in this plot. Yeah. If I'm you know what I mean? Like yeah there's like too much going on that they don't ever truly resolve because at the end of the movie, it's just Arnold and Anna. Right. That's that's her name. Yeah. At at the end of it, it doesn't matter if this guy was a senator or a CIA person or this thing or that. like None of it matters in the end. None of it. Well, and and I like I.
01:15:18
Speaker
I don't ah listen. I remember being a kid and being like, ooh, Anna is so like badass. Like, yeah, I like I want to be Anna. But like, what did what does she matter to the plot? Like, what is because Carl Weathers wants her wants her for some reason, I guess for information, I guess. like But like mean she she she was part of that like gorilla group. So but like it never really like pays off. So I don't like.
01:15:43
Speaker
Listen, I think that just stick to the fucking script and stick to like making it what is interesting about the movie and that's about the alien predator being in Central America hunting people. like I think that this whole subplot about the military and this whole subplot about guerrilla warfare and like all this stuff is so like passive that I don't really understand like why it's even included. Well, I i think that they've I don't think I imagine that they probably had a good deal of other scenes that were filmed that would help share in that plot. And and at the end of it, that whoever was watching it and editing it was like, you guys, we can't have a three hour movie. So ah let's cut some of this because like, come on, we have to.
01:16:31
Speaker
But there's definitely like a shift in the movie. Like the first like 30 minutes is like your typical like ah wartime Arnold, like let's be honest, this Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. And then like it switches to like this sci-fi horror movie about an alien hunting people in the jungle. Yeah, right. Like it's it's it's a really weird shift. Like when you think about it from like a cinematic experience, like yeah sort they're sort of slammed up against each other, aren't they? Right.
01:16:59
Speaker
Like, it's it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, even given the time that it was made, because like you're either making Good Morning Vietnam or you're making Alien. Like, I don't know. Like, this is like the weird, really good way to look at it. It really is. I mean, like, which which which are we going to be? um But I mean, at the same time, like, you know, we we hadn't really had a movie like this ever until until this came out. So I mean, I guess they were just kind of trying to figure it out, you know? Yeah. mean Maybe they're just trying to go for something different. But like,
01:17:28
Speaker
I don't know, watching it with adult eyes, because with kid eyes, I was just like, ooh, fun guns and blowing up. Just fun. Yeah. like with But with adult eyes, I'm like, what's the point of this? like yeah and just Digging into the the usual like you know trivia that we that we bring up for every every movie that we watch, um it was interesting to learn that originally Jean-Claude Van Damme was going to play Dutch.
01:17:53
Speaker
and and he was even cast for it. But when they put him up against all the other actors, he was too short for the movie. oh he was Because I didn't realize he's only 5'9", I guess, which is... it's It's not tall, you know what I mean? And so then they brought in Arnold Schwarzenegger. I'm only 5'10", so watch your language. You're only 5'10"? Yeah. God, Andrew, I thought you were taller than that. Why do I think you're taller than that?
01:18:16
Speaker
because you're a tall person. Yeah, true. But i mean like maybe five but Five-Nine is shorter than... I'm just gonna shut up. Anyways, he's Five-Nine and like it it it wouldn't have looked right. And also, like it's hard to imagine this movie not with Arnold Schwarzenegger. You know what I mean? like I can't imagine that almost.
01:18:37
Speaker
Um, you know what I'll say is I think that these action stars and this might get me in trouble, but whatever. I think that these action stars of like the mid 80s are kind of all interchangeable, like the Stallone, the Sportsmaker. They're all doing basically the same thing.
01:18:55
Speaker
Yeah, sorry. I can imagine any of them in this role. But another thing, too, that happened is is apparently both the director and Arnold Schwarzenegger, they both lost twenty five pounds while filming this show. Oh, you know what? Oh, I guess he did kind of look a little like listen, I think he doesn't look like his usual beefcake. He looks a bit slimmed down, which was I mean, carl Carl Weathers looked more muscular than he did.
01:19:22
Speaker
You know, i I think it's funny. I don't know if you notice this, but like throughout the entire movie, everyone gets more and more naked. I know. It's like a weird thing. Okay, slack jawed faggots, baby. Let's go. But listen, don I think that this is a is a time capsule of a movie. It's it's just one of those things. It's just one of those things that like you you either saw it when you were a kid and you you kind of like love it or you kind of look at it like we're looking at it and we're like, hmm, what's the point of this movie? and and like you know to To be fair, like i mean besides the slackjawed faggots line, which like we can laugh at because ah you and I are slackjawed faggots, whatever. um Like, I mean, we we we can say it, you know what I'm trying to say here. but Besides that line, the movie does hold up. Like, there's not a whole lot that's offensive about it, besides like the fact that they're just killing brown people in Mexico, which is obviously offensive. But I think you know what I'm trying to say here. Like, there's a lot of other action, horror action films from that era that don't stand up. This is one that still does. um And it also, I think it stands a test of time. Effects-wise, it definitely does. and affectswise and Once again, let's go back to the fucking budget here. like It was only $18 million. like That's fucking insane, dude. so like They did an awful lot with just a little bit of money. not Well, not a little bit, but you you know what I'm trying to say. and um you know Look, is it too long? Yeah. Did I still enjoy watching it? Yeah, I did. and Actually, i but I was thinking by the end of it, watching it today,
01:20:56
Speaker
You know what? Maybe I'll do a little like predator marathon. Just like go through all of them. i I need to do an alien because I still haven't seen the new alien yet. So I need to do. I need to do an alien marathon, but in order of like the story, you know, looks like Prometheus, both of the entire thing.
01:21:12
Speaker
And I want to do that before I see the new alien, but I should do it for this too. um Because I mean, look, like we just talked about, we like to pray so much. And watching this one again was like, you know, now I want to dig into everything again, because there's, I never saw alien versus predator, never saw it. And I don't think I saw predators either. I'm pretty sure. I'm like, good luck trying to figure out which comes first because there is like the predator, predators. like like don't you you don't name it But like some nerd out there has it like mapped out for you already, you know? Oh yeah, just Google it. We've talked about this before. It's like, because you know, like I have all my movies digital basically. And like, I hate how they don't just call scream five, scream five, because it means that it doesn't pop up in the right order. I understand movies. It drives me insane.
01:22:02
Speaker
um So a couple of things about this movie that kind of drove me nuts, if I'm gonna be honest. What is with, okay, so there's a part in the movie where Arnold Schwarzenegger himself says, oh, it's using the trees. like as like It's using the trees to like hunt, like it's it's up above them. So what do they do? They only put tripwires on the ground.
01:22:28
Speaker
What what are we doing? Like, oh, and yeah, I didn't think about that. Like you literally said it uses the trees, but you're only putting traps on the ground. So can awesome um can I tell you to like as somebody who has to like constantly test things at work? You know what I mean? Yeah. They're setting all these tripwires and this shit and that test and shit. yeah And I'm like, motherfucker, how you know it's going to work? How you know?
01:22:52
Speaker
It's going to work. You know what I mean? You're not testing shit over here. What if it doesn't work? yeah you you you You get where I'm going with this. Well, and another thing that drove me crazy about this movie is so there are several characters and I mean, at least three that are taken out by the ah predators laser, if you want to say it, like whatever that whatever that beam is that he shines. Sure. um But then when he does it, charles schwarznegger it's just a grace. It's just a grace on the shoulder. because he is the honor that doesn't affect him at all. It goes on his skin. This is like this is why I can't watch James Bond movies. Like I it can't watch them because I can't stand like where someone gets shot at a million thousand times and never gets one bullet hit them. Like it just drives me insane. Suspension of of disbelief is a very big suspension of disbelief when it comes to this. Yes. And the other thing is I thought it was so funny that what was his name? Billy, right? Is the tracker. Yes, I think so. When he goes and he cuts that vine and drinks from it. And I was like, y'all didn't come into the jungle with water. I know. I do love near the end when Pancho is like, fuck it, I'm going to go back to my fucking roots. I'm going to take off my shirt. I'm going to drop my gun and I'm just going to use this fucking knife. Like, yeah, it's just crazy.
01:24:14
Speaker
Well, and then he's the one that gets his spine ripped out, right? Yeah, man. Yeah. that Look at the predator, dude. And and we we got to talk about it for just ah a second before we end this thing. But like the effects in this movie for 1987, 89, what was 87?
01:24:30
Speaker
Are fantastic. Oh, my God, dude. Yes. Like from like the creature design, which is like in and of itself kind of like a marvel. Incredible. We didn't have anything like this before to model it after. Like this is a unique creature. Yeah. To like just like the body horror of like when Carl Weathers gets his arm lasered off, but his hand keeps going to trigger like Jesus God Almighty.
01:24:55
Speaker
to when, I forget what his name is, when he's crawling through the trenches and all of a sudden he sees the three like little lasers on his arm, yeah and then he looks up and gets his head fucking blown apart. It's crazy. There is some good fucking effects in this movie. like I think that that's like what gets lost in translation when people talk about Predator is like, these are good effects man like and even for today's like like today's type of things like you don't really see this that much anymore and like the fact that this is like a weird war sci-fi horror movie from 1987 and we get this level of effects i think is pretty awesome well that's right kind of have to give it to it andrew tell me what did you rate this film
01:25:41
Speaker
So here at Friday the 13th Horror Podcast, we grade on a seven stripe scale for the seven stripes of the gay old rainbow. i Here on Predator, I'm going to give it a four. I think that the effects and like the fun sci-fi horror is all there, but the plot is just not. And my final thought is when it focuses on the action sci-fi, I am in.
01:26:05
Speaker
Other than that, it's just kind of corny. Fair enough. For me, I went to the smidge higher. I think just for the nostalgia aspect, to be honest, I gave it a four and a half, but I said, man, it just goes on and on, doesn't it? But it still slaps pretty hard. So. And finally, we just have to say, get to the choppa. Get to the choppa. Come on.
01:26:26
Speaker
Um, and we, we hope listening to this, that you're, you're now in your car or on your commute or just walking around that you're doing an Arnold impression too. Um, please do it. Do it for us. Do it for somebody around you and do it better than us. Yes. please plays It won't be hard to do better than us. Anyways, folks, that was predator. We'll be right back with our next film in the episode, a very different film. Oh God.
Discussion on 'Predator' and 'Jacob's Ladder'
01:26:50
Speaker
Yes. Jacob's ladder.
01:26:54
Speaker
are are are
01:27:12
Speaker
Every day, Jacob Singer goes to work. What's wrong? This is one of those days. And every day, he wonders what is happening to him. Maybe it's the pressure, Jake. They're like demons, Jess. They weren't human. What were they, Jake? Can we look at your hand? You have very strange lines. See, according to this, you're already dead. Yeah!
01:27:45
Speaker
wrong jake they're coming after me I don't know who they are or what they are, but they're gonna get me and I'm scared, Jake. I've seen them too.
01:28:05
Speaker
get rid of the demons. Who are you? I can block the ladder. are Where you taking me? Where am I? Where do you want to go?
01:28:18
Speaker
is your home you're dead i'm not dead what are you then lot
01:28:39
Speaker
Oh, I can't think of anything. God, I'm so bad at this. You know what? I'm not going to do anything. Andrew, listen, this movie is depressing and we're going to talk about it. It's called Jacob's Ladder. Tell us all about it. The most frightening thing about Jacob Singer's Nightmare is that he isn't dreaming.
01:28:53
Speaker
After returning home from the Vietnam War, veteran Jacob Singer struggles to maintain his sanity. Plagued by hallucinations and flashbacks, Singer rapidly falls apart as the world and people around him morph and twist into disturbing images. Friends and family fail to reach him as he descends into madness.
01:29:14
Speaker
Jacob's Ladder is directed by Adrienne Lynn, written by Bruce Joel Rubin. Production and distribution were handled by Karelko Pictures and TriStar Pictures. Jacob is played by Tim Robbins. Jezzy is played by Elizabeth Pena. Lewis is played by Danny Ayo. Michael is played by Matt Craven. Paul is played by Pruitt Taylor Vince. Gary is played by Jason ah Alexander. Sarah is played by Patricia Callember. George is played by Ving Rhames. And Gabe is played by a Surprisingly, Macaulay Culkin. Rated R, this comes in at 113 minutes. It was ah released on November 2nd of 1990. Locations included and NYC, New York City, and Puerto Rico. Crazy enough.
01:30:01
Speaker
Uh, the budget was 25 million and it reached about 26 million in the box office. So Maddie, uh, is this your first time watching Jacob's ladder and tell me your initial thoughts? Uh, not my first time, but it, but it has definitely been a while. Um, this is like, like you said, you watched predator really early.
01:30:20
Speaker
And it was weird. I definitely watched this movie way too early as a kid. oh Like I remember watching this in first grade. I'm not joking. Oh no. And like I probably watched it because this came out when 1990. So yeah, I would have been, uh, that was November. I would have been eight years old. So not first grade, probably like second grade, I think maybe something like that.
01:30:44
Speaker
I don't remember why I watched it but probably one of my siblings was watching it like they rented the movie or something and brought it home kind of thing. um I shouldn't have watched it as a child but it's also like part of what probably made me who I am today doing this is why I have a horror podcast and like trauma in my life. um So yeah I mean look.
01:31:03
Speaker
ah Jacob's ladder is not an easy movie to watch because it is it's about trauma um and it's about ah it's about PTSD and it's about you know veterans and it's about ah depression and it's about anger and it's about addiction and it's about.
01:31:21
Speaker
ah so many things and it is a dark ass film written by the same guy that wrote ghost and um you know that's something to think about like this guy I mean the guy that wrote ghost Bruce Joel Rubin um he he won the Oscar for best original screenplay right and um that's that's pretty incredible for ghost and And it's amazing that he also wrote this. One of the things that was really interesting about this too is I learned that before he wrote the script for both Jacob's Ladder and Ghost, which was also released in 1990, he spent two years in the Tibetan Buddhist monastery in Nepal.
01:32:06
Speaker
And what this movie is, apparently, um doing a little bit more digging, and this movie is basically like the Tibetan Book of the Dead in a modern adaptation. That's what this is. And so like he's taking a veteran that came back with a bunch of guilt and a bunch of and and a bunch of sin, quite frankly, and a bunch of like ah absolute trauma. And he's he is already dead, which we learn by the end of of of the movie.
01:32:36
Speaker
um And he's going through sort of like the book of the dead before he passes on all the way through. And it's ah it's a really incredible movie. ah there There was a remake. I have not seen the remake and I probably won't ever seem to see the remake because it just sounds kind of dumb to be honest.
01:32:51
Speaker
um but I think there's a couple things about the movie, right? It is very 1990 in some ways, but also timeless in others. So like, it's like some things definitely track pretty well still in 2024, but other things seem a little bit dated, i but the datedness of it doesn't really bother me. And I don't, I don't think it bothered you just looking at your comments here. Um, so like you're, you're safe there if you've never seen this. And what I mean by that is like, you're not going to be too annoyed by that. Right.
01:33:19
Speaker
um But it is it's deep and it's dark and it's it's hard to watch. There are some really terrifying moments of of this too. And and the the the terrifying nature of Jacob's Ladder is not about jump scares or about like um like just like spooky things. It's about the images in the movie.
01:33:39
Speaker
And so you have these images of like these strange men around who have like, it's almost like they have like latex over their heads and you can't see their eyes and you don't see their mouths and and the lighting is crazy and they're this and they're that. It's these these images that that um that the director creates in the movie that really stick with you and that are clearly the hallucinations of Jacob, of Jake.
01:34:05
Speaker
And you can see why, you know, if you were the person who were experiencing these things every single day nonstop, you would probably be descending into madness too, because it would just, it it would destroy your life seeing all of this. um I think that there's a lot of really great performances in this. I think Elizabeth Pena maybe does the best she's ever done in this movie. She's incredible in it. I think Tim Robbins, Tim Robbins is always good. i have I have a lot of time for Tim Robbins. I just, I love him so much.
01:34:33
Speaker
And this was like that, like the Tim Robbins, like even in this movie, it sounds weird to say it, but like this was like when Tim Robbins was really cute, you know what I mean? Like he was just, see it's just a he's he's a handsome guy, but he was just like really cute then for whatever reason too, even in this movie. um And he's just so good in it. He's just always been a really a really great actor, I think.
01:34:52
Speaker
um I think even Macaulay Culkin as ah a very young child in this movie does a fantastic job. And then you get like some weird performances from fucking Jason Alexander, George from Seinfeld, you know, like you just kind of don't expect that. So um I think it's a great movie and it's it's a real thinker. And I think one of the one of the best parts of it is Danny Aiello. And long time listeners will also know that my other favorite movie besides Cosford Park is Moonstruck in which Danny Aiello plays Johnny Camaraderie. Thank you very much. um But in this movie, Danny Aiello plays Louie, who is the chiropractor for Jacob.
01:35:31
Speaker
And Louis is sort of like an angel, basically. Like he's trying to help Jacob leave this life and come to peace with it. And he has this really wonderful line in it and I'll read it. And he says, and he's he's asking while he's doing a chiropractic fucking ah adjustment or whatever with Jacob, he goes, you know, have you ever heard of Meister Eckhart? And Meister Eckhart was a religious philosopher. And he says, you know,
01:35:57
Speaker
ah And he asked him this because Jacob tells him, like, basically, I think I'm in hell right now. And he says, Eckhart saw hell too. And Eckhart said, the only thing that burns in hell is the part of you that won't let go of life. Your memories, your attachments, they burn them all the way, but they're not punishing you. That's what Eckhart said. They're freeing your soul.
01:36:19
Speaker
So if you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you're you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels freeing you from this earth. Isn't that incredible?
01:36:34
Speaker
Yeah, I noticed that um line kind of pays off earlier in the movie. If you yeah if you're if you're if you're paying attention, you'll see this. But if you're not paying attention, it kind of goes by the wayside. But there's a moment where Jezebel burns all of his photos in the incinerator. And I then when he said that, I was like, oh, she's not just being a bitch, like she's trying to like make him move on. Yeah.
01:36:59
Speaker
ah So yeah, my initial thoughts on this movie. and um This actually was a first time watch for me, on goodbye well but i will give the um what is I will give the caveat that I already knew the twist okay just from being in the horror community. like i I just knew it. I just knew what was going on. um But that being said, I echo a lot about what you're saying. And I think that it's a really beautiful film, but at the same time, like
01:37:31
Speaker
i just I have a hard time understanding why we spend so much time, because this, once again, is an almost two-hour movie. It is it is long. I'll grant you that. Yeah. Why we spend so much time delving into what is not even a real part of Jacob's life because he never lived this. that I don't know. like i think that here's Here's my divide.
01:37:59
Speaker
I think that all of the stuff with Sarah and with the kids and all of the stuff that kind of echoes back to his life before Vietnam makes a lot of sense to me. Sure. I think the stuff, as much as I i really like, what what is your name? Elizabeth Pena, right? Yeah, yeah.
01:38:18
Speaker
As much as I really like her performance, I don't really understand that part of the movie. like i don't really you know I don't really get why we spend so much time going to the postal service, going to parties, going to like all these things, him getting a fever, and like all why we spend so much time in this like imaginary life. Yeah, sure.
01:38:40
Speaker
um when we could just be spending time with the life that we lived, I guess, if that makes any sense? Yeah, no, it it does make sense, yeah. So I was i was like i was like on the fence with this one. like I was happy that I watched it because i I do think it's a really good film. like There's some interesting things in here, especially if you're a bibliophile. like There's ah a ton of stuff about like religion and the Bible and like yeah that's just like kind of like, And they're and they're not edgelords about it. Like they're not like stuffing it down your throat. Sure. It's it's it's it's like the fact that her name is Jezebel. Like for God's sakes, like just think about that. The fact that his kids are like Gabe and Eli, like think about that. Yeah. Like they do it in a way that's not like stuffing it down your throat, which I appreciated. But there's still like a good bit of like lore that you can like gain from it. Oh, yeah, for sure. um But then I get like a little bit frustrated that we like devote so much time into this like
01:39:38
Speaker
quote-unquote life that he never really lived and so like I get I get frustrated with that aspect of the movie um but ultimately like I do think it's a really well-made movie and I do think that Tim Robbins gives an extremely well ah extremely great performance although I will never take him I'm sorry Tim Robbins I love you I think you're an amazing actor I don't think you're sexy I'm so sorry yeah because they really try to hammer that home um And, and, you know, I will echo your, your statement about this being like a nineties movie because the whole movie just feels really dusty. I don't know if you got that. Like it's just, no i guess I have, I think, I think dusty is actually a really great word for it. That makes a lot of sense. A lot of dust in this movie, but like, um, and then there are certain aspects of the movie that I, I think that I have to maybe like dissect a little bit more because there's a lot about like, um, like either like,
01:40:32
Speaker
caterpillar or like worm. or like ah There's like there's like creatures in this movie. yeah sure And I don't really know how that fits into the overall like plot or scheme of the movie because yeah I get a lot of it. like I get like what you're talking about with like his guardian angel who's a chiropractor. I get like you know Jezebel who's supposed to be like ah trying to like persuade him into another way. But then there are like parts where I don't really get what's happening, like where he goes into the psych award and he is like,
01:41:03
Speaker
Oh, you're dead already. And like all this stuff, like, I think that it's maybe just a little over plotted for instance for a little bit more of a simple idea. i mean It does. I think maybe in 2024 eyes, some of the movie can be a little heavy handed, right? Yeah. Whereas I would say like in 1990, which God is a long time. I mean, is that how long ago was that?
01:41:28
Speaker
34 years 34 years right my god that's so long ago jesus god we are old um but i mean yeah it's 34 years ago i think that the heavy-handedness wouldn't have felt so heavy and i think too like right around like this this is an era of like veteran movies too like i mean born in the USA came out not too long before this i think Like I mentioned, good morning, Vietnam. Yeah. Good morning, Vietnam. And like, um, there's, there's some other films too that would have come out around here. Top Gun. Top Gun. I mean, we weren't too far from going into another war. Uh, you know, not, not too far after this, or maybe when did the first Gulf war start? Was it 92 something or was it, or was it 1990 actually?
01:42:09
Speaker
I can't remember. Anyways, I almost want to say 89, but I don't know. I mean, whatever it is, like, I mean, that this stuff would have been on people's minds then, I think. And I think, too, like the whole like, like, um ah but what what is that? POW, MIA, like, like Vietnam stuff. It was a lot more present then because there were a lot more Vietnam veterans alive then, you know, 30, 34 years ago. And now, you know, look, a lot of them are gone just because of of the the the the heavy hand of time. So I think some of this stuff would have maybe played out in different ways to our brains and our eyes back then. But now it maybe feels like it's a little much. And I and i totally understand that, especially if but it's if it's a first time watch. But I'm glad that like even with that heavy handedness, like you're like, oh, yeah, this this definitely tracks still. So I'm glad to I'm glad to hear from a first time watcher that that still it still works in a lot of ways. are yeah Like it's the allegory of the film is still really beautiful. Yeah, I agree.
01:43:08
Speaker
I just think that like i think that it's i think it over think it just overdoes it when it could be simply a very 90 minute straight movie. I don't know. I wonder if if they had focused more on the story of of the latter, right? So like more on the story of like the war and drug and really, we haven't even really gotten to the drug part of it. Yeah, right. But i mean like if they, if they replaced, you know, some of the more like domestic stuff with more of the war stuff, I wonder what that would have been like.
01:43:42
Speaker
like yeah where he where he had to reconcile with what happened and what he did, but like face to face instead of through allegory, right? right And and that that could have been a really interesting term, but it would also it also would have been a very different movie. you know jacob Jacob's Ladder for all that it deals with is ah is a surprisingly quiet movie, if you think about it. And so like if if it it had gone more into war,
01:44:08
Speaker
that that dynamic would have, I mean, just would have shifted by the very essence of it. There would have been no way out of it. And how, how would that have changed, changed it? You know, it's it's hard to almost imagine what that would be like to experience that interesting stuff.
01:44:23
Speaker
Yeah, I just think like, for me, like, I don't know, like, I don't know how audiences felt about this movie when it came out, because obviously I didn't see it when it was 1990. But like, I almost like at the end of the movie, I felt a little like betrayed. Does that make sense? Like, That's interesting. and I felt like, oh, we just watched all this stuff for it never to really exist. I don't know. it was It was a weird feeling. This this this movie definitely like gave me feelings. And so like I have to give it credit for that to like evoke like something from me.
01:44:58
Speaker
because like not all movies do that. like like I can't say that I watched Predator and I was like, ooh, wow, that's a thinker, you know what I mean? i hate right right right like This was definitely like a thinker of a movie, but I did feel a little bit like gut punched at the end of like, well, what the fuck? You know what I mean? So I don't know if like, was this like, I guess I made its money back. So I guess enough people saw it. I think that this is one that was definitely never going to make a bunch of money because I mean, like, like we're both saying here, it's not one that you want to see over and over and over again. yeah Although it's funny, I had to rent it here um and I didn't own it before, but it was only a dollar more to just buy it. So I was like, well, I might as well buy it. It's kind of dumb not to it's just that I have it. um But I'm i'm i'm not going to watch it a bunch. You know what I mean? That's not going to be what I do.
01:45:46
Speaker
But I think it it was it was a well received. um Example, Roger Ebert um said that watching it left him reeling with turmoil and confusion, with feelings of sadness and despair. He called it a thoroughly painful and depressing experience, but but it must be said, one that has been powerfully written, directed, and acted. And he war i you he awarded the film three and a half out of four stars.
01:46:14
Speaker
I'm honestly right there with him. That's kind of how exactly how I felt. Well, I mean, and and that's just it. I mean, like it's it's you know, it's it's pretty clear that um Ruben, ah that that the guy who wrote it, he wrote two different spooky movies. He wrote Ghost and he wrote Jacob's Ladder and he wrote that. He wrote them at the same time. And I tell you, he wrote one that that you could watch over and over and over again. Ghost and he wrote one that you'll probably watch once. And and that's it.
01:46:41
Speaker
Can I tell you the part that freaked me out the most? Tell me, please. There's a part where he, I think, if I remember correctly, he's laying in bed, but he is in the Sarah universe. Yeah, yeah, sure. And he's kind of like having like a happy moment. And then off screen, there's this voice that just says, dream on. Yeah, totally. It freaked me out so much. I was like, oh my God. Scary shits.
01:47:08
Speaker
and But yeah, and then we haven't even really talked about like what the core of the film is really talking about, and that's ah the ah LSD experiments that we did on soldiers. And this is based on real things that happened. yeah And so at at the very end of the film, that there's a title card that comes up before the credits roll, and it talks about um how the Pentagon has still not ever confessed to, oh part of me, I just had a hiccup, um that they've never confessed to using BZ, which was, pardon of me, Jesus, um which was a drug that that they did use. It's it's called 3 quinoclinol, 3 quinoclinol benzylate on US soldiers during the Vietnam War.
01:47:56
Speaker
um And it is a super hallucinogen that that elicited manic, maniac, not not even manic, but but maniacal behavior. And it was used, I mean, and like, this isn't the first time that this has happened, right? So like, for example, like the Nazis gave their stormtroopers drugs to make them just absolute monsters. Stormtroopers. Well, some of them are called structure, whatever. And it's it's not it's not the first case of a military giving drugs to their soldiers so that they can go out there and and not basically not not feel pain not feel and yeah and not feel empathy so they can just go and destroy. And so America did that, too. Got got some got some fucking news for you.
01:48:39
Speaker
And so um this is up ah this is sort of dealing with that right there. It's it's really interesting stuff. And it's it's really terrifying stuff too. Like how awful to have been one of those soldiers. My God, Jesus. Yeah. And then um just to kind of like anchor all this, I did think like the Listen, I think that, like, family stuff is really touching. Like, I think, it is yeah like, the, like, Macaulay Culkin of it all with, like, the kid that gets killed. Um, and he still has two other kids, but he never, like, in the, in the Elizabeth, in the, in the Jezebel storyline, he never sees his kids again. And that's really yeah fucked up. Like, I don't know. It's just, this movie,
01:49:22
Speaker
is messed up. And I liked it, but I hated it. Totally get it. Like, it's just one of those ones that like, ah just it it got me. But like, and I do think there are genuinely some spooky stuff like at the beginning when he's on the train and he had terrifying.
01:49:40
Speaker
when he like ah is specifically when he has to ah dodge the train and he's like kind of looking up at the thing and you see all those like faceless people like looking out of the train, like that was like honestly like really creepy. And like this movie does that like weird jerky like head thing before like literally anybody else did it, I think, I think anyway. I think so. um um It would go on to like live in infamy in the 2000s, but I think this was kind of the first time they really pulled that stunt and it was it was effective. like I gotta give this movie some credit, but I also gotta be like, why you gotta do that to me, dog? I know, for real.
01:50:19
Speaker
You know, apparently i'm I'm looking right now online and it looks like the the remake of it that came out in 2019 was from the same guy that did the Midnight Meat Train, which is interesting. Oh, okay. We've covered that movie. Yeah. And he he wrote the screenplay along with somebody named Sarah Thorpe. So I don't know. I actually, I wasn't going to do this, but I actually might check it out. If it's free, I might watch it. It was released on the dish network. I remember that. I remember dish network and apparently that were using satellite. digits Apparently that was still around in 2019, which is also kind of scary to me. Um, it received it an approval rating of 4% on Rotten Tomatoes. So apparently it is not very good. Um, anyways, I, yeah, I, I think, um, I think we've sort of said it all, but, uh, one thing I didn't know, yeah, I wanted to mention this. I didn't know how much of a, uh, of an inspiration it was for Silent Hill. Did you know about that? No, but I can now that you're now that you said it, I kind of I get it because I'm at least the first two games of that. Yeah. So apparently that's a big thing. A couple of other things about it, too. Adrian Line turned down directorial duties on the bonfire of the vanities that he could direct Jacob's Ladder. His first choice for the role of Jacob Singer was Tom Hanks. But by coincidence, Hanks turned down the film so he could make the bonfire of the vanities, which is pretty crazy. I think Tim Robbins is a better choice for this specific role. It was definitely a good one. I think other people that were in line for it too were Dustin Hoffman, if you can imagine that, Al Pacino. Al Pacino was also up for the role. It was kind of crazy. Tim Robbins has that right... He's dorky enough for it. Exactly. That's just it it. It really works.
01:52:03
Speaker
All right, Maddie, based on our grading system, what do you give Jacob's Ladder? I give it a five, and I said that Jacob's Ladder is a harrowing look at the disastrous effects of war and military service, sure, but it's also a deep allegory into the futility of life and the never-ending cycles of suffering. Jesus Christ. I know, I know, I know.
01:52:24
Speaker
um I also gave it a five. i have Like I said, I have to give this movie its flowers, but I said, this belongs in the one and done category for me. It's really well done, but I don't see myself returning to this very, very sad movie. And I don't blame you. Well, folks, that does it for our second film of the episode. We'll take a quick break here and come right back with our final game and closing out the show.
01:53:17
Speaker
All right, welcome back, folks, as we close out the show with our final game. And Andrew, I've got a pop quiz for you about veterans, actually. So we're going to take you through it. And this is a quiz coming from the Cohen Veterans Network. And we really, we very much respect our veterans for what they what they did and what they gave. um and for And for a lot of times, the trouble that they have to go through, um even when they're finally home.
01:53:42
Speaker
And so let's talk about this. im like I'm going to give you some questions, Andrew. You just answer me and then I'll let you know if you were wrong or correct. Okay? Okay. So first one is this. Good. First one is this true or false.
Veterans Quiz and Conclusion
01:53:53
Speaker
Veterans face higher rates of unemployment than non-veterans. True.
01:53:59
Speaker
It's actually false. Veterans bring valuable skills and experience from their military service to the civilian workforce. Strengths include leadership, teamwork, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, some other really cool things. And the unemployment rate for all veterans was lower than the rate for non-veterans in 2022, according to the US Department of Labor, which is obviously, that's a good thing to know. happy to know that is that's good to hear because I feel like in my field of you know I work in in medicine for lack of a better term is that like I don't know just like the the stings of war and everything and just yeah sure even imagine so like I'm glad to hear that people can be
01:54:40
Speaker
you know can come back from that and really bring valuable skills to the workplace. So I'm happy. What percentage of the adult population has ever, so and this is in America, of course, has ever served in the US military? Is it 7%, 17, 27, or 37%? What do you think? I'd probably say 17. Okay, let's check.
01:55:05
Speaker
The answer actually is 7%. According to the veterans administration, there are approximately 19 million US military veterans making up approximately 7% of the American adult population. Now, true or false. If you serve in the military, you are referred to as a soldier.
01:55:26
Speaker
Oh, in general? Uh-huh. Yeah, I guess true. Okay, let's see. The answer here is false. Every military member is not a soldier. Soldiers are only in the Army, while the arm only infantry okay yeah while the Army is the largest component of the U.S. military and their members are called soldiers, there are five other branches of service and they each have their own unique history and name.
01:55:52
Speaker
How about this? True or... Oh, we already know that for God's sake. um Okay, here we go. True or false? The majority of US veterans have experienced combat. What do you think? False.
01:56:07
Speaker
The answer is false. That is correct. According to the Pew Research Center, about three in 10 veterans had combat experience at some point in their military career. Another true or false. The majority of US veterans experience PTSD.
01:56:23
Speaker
I'm going to say based on the last question that this is also false. Let's see. You are correct. While some veterans do experience mental health challenges, it's important to note that the majority do not develop PTSD or other mental health disorders, which I think is important to note actually, because I think that there's usually like a ah stigma with veterans that they probably do have that. You know what I mean? Um, here's an interesting one. True or false veterans are more likely to own a home than non veterans.
01:56:52
Speaker
um I think I'll say true just because of the the yeah i ah because of determinations that I should have in my brain. sure The answer is true. In 2021, nearly 80% of male veterans were homeowners versus approximately 60% of similar non-veterans. Very interesting stuff.
01:57:12
Speaker
And let's see here. um Each year, approximately how many U.S. service members leave the military and transition to civilian life? Is it 25,000 to 75,000? Is it 100,000 to 150,000? Or is it 200,000 to 250,000? What do you think?
01:57:31
Speaker
ah Listen, I think that I'm understanding this website's what they're trying to tell me. And so I'm going to go with the higher amount. Okay. Right here. You are correct. Uh, 200,000 every year, approximately 200,000 men and women leave the U S military service and return to life as civilians. And then finally true or false on average, military families move every six years. What do you think? It's going to say false.
01:58:01
Speaker
It is false. On average, service members receive orders to to move every two to four years, which also means a child in the military can't expect to change schools six to nine times. Oh my God, it's so many. From kindergarten through high school graduation.
01:58:17
Speaker
And according to the Department of Defense, military families relocate three times as often as civilian families. So Andrew, you did a pretty good job on the pop quiz. Congratulations to you. Yeah. I think I, uh, I think I understand that the guy that they were trying to take me down eventually.
01:58:35
Speaker
Well, folks, like that was the 128th episode of Friday, the 13th Horror Podcast. As ever, we're so grateful that you spent your time listening with us and spending some time with us. Thank you so much. ah Before we let you go, just want to remind you that we are a proud, independent podcast and we rely on your support to keep going, um not just through listening, but also we would really appreciate it if you took a moment to consider becoming a patron on Patreon.
01:59:01
Speaker
or you can even buy merchandise from us both of those things can be easily done by going to our website www dot frigate thirteen dot com slash support orders go to the site and click on support you'll see it there um you can become a patron for as little as a dollar a month um and we have a ah small and hardy group of patrons that we really um really admire and really, um really ah are very grateful for that they have and some of these people have been with us from the very beginning over six years ago, almost seven years ago at this point. And so if you want to be one of those people, give it a try. You you might enjoy it. ah One of the really cool things is that if you if you do become a patron, you can um
01:59:43
Speaker
join the private chat that we have in Patreon, which is really cool. And we're having a lot of fun with that. Our patrons are having a lot of fun with that. It's just, it's a good time. So if you, um, if you're into supporting independent podcasts like us for a dollar a month, you can make that happen too.
02:00:00
Speaker
That's $12 a year, everybody. So it's not that much. We're cheaper than NPR. Yeah. Speaking of Patreon, we have a new patron that I wanted to call out. ah James Cooper is our newest patron. james i know you I owe you a message on Patreon, which I will send today if I get a chance. um But some some fun stuff that James brought us that we'll be talking about in the future. So that's cool.
02:00:29
Speaker
Cool. um and you know As always, you know if you can't support financially, we totally get it. This economy sucks. It does. um But you can also just like leave a review. I don't know if I've mentioned this before or not on any episode or anything. I think it's the first time actually that you've ever talked about this. I'm pretty sure.
02:00:51
Speaker
You can leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. ah Just do it. I don't know what else to tell you. I've been telling you for one hundred and twenty. Please just do it. Please just do it. But also, Andrew, even after they do their review, even after they become a patron on Patreon, even after they listen to all one hundred and twenty seven episodes before this one, do you know what they can do right the fuck now? They can get slayed.